I dont really think reptools need a nerf. Barely any 1 uses them apart from hardcore logis so nerfing them will turn plyers away from using them.

While some of these changes make sense (scanner nerf finally!), the core concept of nerfing all equipment, then returning it to its previous level of effectiveness only for specific logi suits, is really a kick in the teeth for equipment-oriented logis everywhere.

The choice between good uplinks, good nanohives, good scanners or good reps shouldn't be dictated by suit, because it forces so many other factors, like slot layout and speed.

In 1.8, you can't both be good at repping and have a sidearm, you can't both be fast and have good uplinks, etc, and that to me flies in the face of Dust's philosophy of fitting freedom.

:( sad logi

While some of these changes make sense (scanner nerf finally!), the core concept of nerfing all equipment, then returning it to its previous level of effectiveness only for specific logi suits, is really a kick in the teeth for equipment-oriented logis everywhere.

The choice between good uplinks, good nanohives, good scanners or good reps shouldn't be dictated by suit, because it forces so many other factors, like slot layout and speed.

In 1.8, you can't both be good at repping and have a sidearm, you can't both be fast and have good uplinks, etc, and that to me flies in the face of Dust's philosophy of fitting freedom.

:( sad logi

I don't get this attitude. You can't have all suits be flexible enough to do anything if they just fit it right. You can still have a somewhat fast amarr deployer, but it wont be as fast as a scout with an uplink, but those uplinks won't be as good as the amarr's.

I don't get this attitude. You can't have all suits be flexible enough to do anything if they just fit it right. You can still have a somewhat fast amarr deployer, but it wont be as fast as a scout with an uplink, but those uplinks won't be as good as the amarr's.

I wouldn't have this "attitude" if they hadn't given me the nice toys, then taken them away. I just don't get why the blanket equipment nerf was deemed necessary. I feel like this is just another wave of backlash due to slayer logis having been so good for so long, but this is a nerf to the parts of logi-ing that no one complained about. Was 72 nanite clusters too many? No, and even post 1.8 Caldari bonus (108 nanite clusters) would be fine. Was rep tool range too long? Drop uplink spawn count too high, and timers too short? In all the months of forum rage, in which people have posted furiously about nearly every aspect of the game, I have never once seen a topic complaining about any of those things. EDIT: scanners being the obvious exception, they need the nerf badly and the Gallente bonus will only serve to return them to their previous OP status.

To put this issue into different terms, suppose the CR received at 50% damage bonus when used by a Min Assault suit, and that CCP correspondingly decreased the CR's base damage to 70% of its previous value. Now, the Min Assault is dealing 105% of the previous CR damage, while everyone else is stuck with a much weaker version. But what if you had built your clone to be a CR-wielding Gal scout, because you liked the slot layout and stealth of the suit, and the feel of the CR? Your carefully thought out build, tailored to your individual playstyle, is now all but useless in comparison to builds that align with CCP's strict racial bonus lines.

Think my hypothetical about a 50% damage boost sounds absurd? The Amarr Logi bonus to uplinks is larger than that. Halved spawn time and +10 spawns per unit amounts to a truly colossal difference in effectiveness.

I run a Min Logi with uplinks, nanohives, and a scanner, because I like all of those things. I like having the same base speed as assaults, combined with a versatile slot layout that allows me to freely mix speed and tank types depending on the situation, and I think it's the best possible suit for uplink work. I have 0 SP in rep tools, because I'm not that kind of logi. In 1.8, according to these proposed changes, my carefully considered build will be brutally gimped, simply because I'm not following racial tech lines. There's no excuse to EVER use uplinks on a Min Logi when an Amarr Logi makes them more than twice as effective. Rather than getting to play in the SP and fitting sandbox, we're being forced into racial pigeonholes. There's going to be a few cookie-cutter builds for each suit according to its racial bonuses, and that's going to be it. And THAT makes me a sad logi.

flies in the face of Dust's philosophy of fitting freedom.:( sad logi

It makes me cry everyday when my Abaddon can use good lasers but can't have a good active shield tank.





And Rami, scans, hives, injectors, and reps make up 2/3rds of all the equipment in game. You're using 2/3rds of all the equipment in the game on a single suit.

Part of the problem here is also lack of content in regards to equipment.

The EVE analogy doesn't work here. While it may be one universe, Dust and EVE are VERY different games, and what balances one does not necessarily balance the other. In a game with 16-person fixed team sizes, you can't afford to have logis only be able to use one type of equipment at its current level of effectiveness. Logis have so many equipment slots because we NEED 2/3rds of the equipment in the game to do our job properly! Having 4 equipment slots but being able to use only one type of equipment effectively is huge kick in the teeth.

If there's a respec in 1.8 I'm going commando or scout. I'm done shelling out more ISK for my equipment than most people do for their whole ADV fitting, only to see that equipment nerfed. Seriously, who was complaining about nanohives having too many nanites, or uplinks having excessively fast spawn timers? Just leave equipment stats alone, implement the new suit bonuses, and see how things play out. I don't think these nerfs (except for the scanner) are necessary at all.

stuff about EVE and DUST being different and I guess justifying DUST's shortcomings based on that while missing the point that DUST's troubles come from the fact that it doesn't do anything at all that makes EVE so successful

You can't just blindly apply EVE's concepts to Dust. One is a deep sandbox MMORPG, the other is a lobby-based console shooter. What makes EVE successful can't really be applied to FPS games, or at least not in a straightforward manner.

You can't argue about Dust balance by saying "but that's how it works in EVE". Or, obviously you can, but it's not very convincing.

While I can agree with the scanner nerf, I honestly dont understand the level of the other equipment nerfs. I hope CCP is giving at least a dropsuit tree respec with 1.8 as these are some profound changes.

I think the doomsayers are a little bit excessive in their claims that Logi is now useless......but only to a certain extent. Everything mentioned is accurate except I see it as changing Logibro from a "master-of-all-logi-trades" to a "jack-of-all-logi-trades, master-of-only-one". This means that while any 1 item will remain relatively steady, the rest will all be diminished based on suit preference, and some people like myself now have a suit they love, and it doesn't jive with what equipment we want. I run GalLogi, hate scanners, and use hives and rep tool on every suit (keep scanner cuz u kinda gotta right now, and uplinks are Satan in my mind since got a few peeps who run them well). I am going to need to choose whether to switch suits to maintain my current logi playstyle (Cal or Min), or I keep my Gallogi and become a slayer with it since it's bonus is useles to me. I personally don't like this choice, but I will say to myself as I say to almost everyone who is pissed about something related to this game and feels they are being singled out for negative alterations or treated unfairly.......

Welcome to New Eden.

This is very true, but I think a counter point here is that you don't have to switch suits, given that you don't like scanners but are specced into Gallente Logi. The fact is that Gallente Logi still brings the innate armor repair (probably, not released yet), strong armor tanking/slot count, many equipment slots, etc. That's why you should go Gallente Logi. The scan bonuses are nice, but you're not seeing the whole picture. You still have many more equipment slots (and more HP) than an assault suit. Yes, Gal. Logi will be the best at scanning, to be sure, as Caldari Logi will be at hives, Amarr at uplinks, and Minmatar at repairing. CCP is creating a distinction between Logi = healer and Logi = support. They're making Logi into a broader role that supports other players on the battlefield, by providing them various buffs (ability to spawn wherever faster/better, ability to replenish supplies more/better, providing tactical information on other team for longer, healing their damaged armor/allowing them to last longer in the battle).

Gone are the days of the master Logi do-it-alls. It's probably a very healthy change for the game. I do think it's curious, however, that the two shield tanking races are the best at armor-related triage, through Caldari-buffed hives or Minmatar-buffed repair. I understand the racial connection to the equipment; it's just an oddity the way it turned out.

i understand making spawn times longer but the point of proto is to have that 3 sec spawn. up spawns on starter stuff but make it still easy to spawn quick if u are skilled for it. or put a skill tree for redused spawns

How would you feel about PRO uplinks and PRO mCRUs having a second or so longer spawn time than CRUs? (Whatever those values are, CRUs would be fastest.)

Any dev response to all this feedback yet?

If the equpiment is getting redruced in effectiveness can we at least get a price reduction on proto tier equpiment?Paying 21k for a nanohive or 35k for a rep tool is ridiculous if these changes go through and prices stay the same

Great news about the cloaking. Thanks for listening.

I'm still concerned that there are too many spawn counts with the uplinks. They are an incredibly powerful mechanic and they need to make some limits to prevent spamming.

I personally like the idea of the uplinks using up available bandwidth for the teleporting so only a few can be active at a time till they get through their spawn count and the next placed one become active.

Focused Core Repair tool: The repair amount to a drop suit is too low, increase by 20-40% before logi bonuses to fix.

ALL UPLINK SPAWN TIMES: I can see you guys hate logis but really? Come on, make it worthwhile to be a logi. The changes to spawn times make it more likely that by the time you respawn the enemy will have found the uplink and destroy it before it can even be used. I can spam uplinks all match and have them last between 5 seconds and 20 minutes before someone finds it to destroy it but that means that I have to run Proto uplinks just to get people to spawn on them to get the reinforcements I need when taking an objective.

Hmm Black Ops 2 is only 60 dollars...and lots of people playing (150k avg.). Lets see, total spent on Dust...between $360 and $400 easily (almost all boosters and BPOs), glad to see that fail tree getting used more often CCP as my money is invested, maybe it's time to go play a game that works and is exactly the same minus having vehicles in Dust. Please just give me a reason to stay.