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emtbraincase
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Posted - 2014.01.25 18:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Doshneil Antaro wrote:XxGhazbaranxX wrote: think you have no idea what being a logi is. The equipment spam will happen whether the equipment is crap or not simply because its spam.
Your logic is flawed because worse equipment will requires more spam to make up for it.
Only true logi's do real placement and if you ever knew a real logi in your whole dust career you would have never posted something so poorly thought out.
Posts like these let me know that in DUST a true logi is a rare animal indeed LOL, your cancer is entertaining. You think spamming equipment makes you a "true support logi"? Use your equipment as needed by yourself or your team is what a real logi do. I can not believe you mention to combat the changes put in place by CCP to fix equipment spam is to spam even more. Alll the changes I proposed are to weed out easy mode no skill equipment spam monkeys. These changes would do little to nothing to a real logi.
That isn't what he is saying. If I want to help my team, and now it takes more equipment to obtain the same effect, then more will be put out to compensate. I know that isn't too hard for you to understand. A Logibro doesn't spam equipment, we place it where it isn't going to get blown up immediately, be useful, and not for any purpose except to allow you to kill your enemies faster and more efficiently. This effectively means that my hives are worse unless I'm Caldari, in which case I need more to obtain the same effect (not WP gains, but rep/resup teammtes). My rep tool is also worse (this doesn't involve spam, and a true sign of Logibro is having proto reps), but minimized with Min. Drops, where most spam is occurring, is ONLY going to increase since the timer is slower and spawn count is decreased. If I want my team to spawn at a certain rate, I now need more than before. This equates to more equipment on the battlefield to maintain the same benefits.
Your complaint isn't with Logibro, your complaint is non-logibro in logi suit. The person who drops 3 -6 uplinks in the middle of the road and thinks a militia/compact hive us useful for anything but himself. I, as well as other true logi, will put down the minimum equipment necessary to obtain the necessary results....essentially, rep/resup/rev/scan everywhere it is needed, and nothing where it is not. A non-logibro will put stuff out regardless of location for WP gains.
Non-Logibro outnumbers Logibro considerably. Unless you give the non's a reason to quit it, they will keep spamming since it can be easy WP they can forget about and focus on killing instead of assistance. You have mistaken what we will do with what you think we do. |
emtbraincase
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Posted - 2014.01.25 22:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
Doshneil Antaro wrote:@emtbraincase:
Equipment spam isn't going to be more, but I do agree it will happen more often. That is a good thing. This means a logi will have to be proactive and have battlefield awareness as his equipment is depleted.
Instead of having infinite spawns/ammo/rep hives covering every objective for the entirety of a match that next to never depletes, some of these ihives will actually disapeer.
The slow spawn times on uplinks gives players a chance to kill the hostiles present, then the uplinks without getting shot in the back before he can destroy the equipment.
The shorter rep tool range means the logi will be slightly more visible to his enemies, giving them the reasonable means to counter him and his Heavy.
How can spam be more often, yet not more? If you had said the other way, I would understand (meaning once in awhile you get ridiculous spam and mostly not), but it is impossible for spam to happen more often, and be less at the same time (since it already happens every match according to most in the forums).
.....and exactly how much would you rage if the Wyrkomi triage hive you had been using, and still had triage left, disapperared in a firefight simply because I put it out awhile ago knowing it would get use eventually (because being a good logi means knowing or having a good idea where the battle is likely to flow and have things prepared for that eventuality. regardless of immediate need)?
Pretty sure if you lost a 150k+ isk proto suit with all the trimmings because the "timer" ran out, you wouldn't see it this way. Regardless of anything else, hives and the like should never disappear until they have been destroyed by enemies or used up completely. At least then you usually get a nice audio notification to GTFO.
Shorter rep tool sux but not an issue with a good heavy to follow (I say this because 7.5m or 10m, you are still right up his arse). But by you making the previous statement I'm pretty sure you have never stood behind a heavy in a firefight where all you got in your hands is a Core Focused and thought that you were far enough away that you felt "safe" as it stands now (it is only getting worse).
Uplink spam will continue regardless of changes. If you don't see why then there is no explaining my argument because there is no situation where uplink spam will decrease barring limits to how close together you can put them (and even that I'm not sure of). Every change has at best not made it worse, and any change will do the same (and you cannot have equip disappear as you die, since that is ridiculous). Yes, it is ridiculous. Just get used to the fact that if someone isn't a logi, they will ALWAYS carry one of the following 2 items:Uplinks and hives. Uplinks work regardless of how you use them=EZ WP mode. Hives only give points if in a usable location=gotta work for it. Which do you think a shortcut slayer might use to fill up their equip slots for quick WP gains?
P.S> As a logi you cannot cover everything. That is what separates someone in a logi suit, and a logibro. If we do our job, you should never wonder where the rep is or why there isn't any ammo. There are limits built into a match, it's just that they are for each character, not the team. And they do have limited life, it is called their number of clusters and drops. I already spend the whole match replenishing items as it stands, now I have to worry about the fallback positions as well? |
emtbraincase
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Posted - 2014.01.26 21:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
I think the doomsayers are a little bit excessive in their claims that Logi is now useless......but only to a certain extent. Everything mentioned is accurate except I see it as changing Logibro from a "master-of-all-logi-trades" to a "jack-of-all-logi-trades, master-of-only-one". This means that while any 1 item will remain relatively steady, the rest will all be diminished based on suit preference, and some people like myself now have a suit they love, and it doesn't jive with what equipment we want. I run GalLogi, hate scanners, and use hives and rep tool on every suit (keep scanner cuz u kinda gotta right now, and uplinks are Satan in my mind since got a few peeps who run them well). I am going to need to choose whether to switch suits to maintain my current logi playstyle (Cal or Min), or I keep my Gallogi and become a slayer with it since it's bonus is useles to me. I personally don't like this choice, but I will say to myself as I say to almost everyone who is pissed about something related to this game and feels they are being singled out for negative alterations or treated unfairly.......
Welcome to New Eden.
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emtbraincase
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Posted - 2014.02.01 17:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote:Why not make it so a player is actually limited to X number of equipment per player rather than per equipment slot?
how many pieces of equipment is acceptable to you? If you are one who only drops items for WP gains then you would only see the need for 2-4 pieces on the field since you are either helping yourself exclusively or you are just WP farming. The better question is how many "fronts" of a battlefield are there on any given Skirmish (whether PC/FW/Pub)? I typically see at least 2-3, minimum. So if I am a logi, and my team is relying on my rep/resup/revive to hold those fronts (or push forward), then are you suggesting that I should only help 1 of those fronts? If I want just rep and resup on every field then you are looking at, in a minimum sense, 2 wyrkomi triage at 2 locations while I sit at the 3rd with a rep tool, 3 Ishukone Guaged split at those same 2 and me carrying something to resup where I'm at with the Rep tool. I am already at 7 pieces and there has been 0 "spam" since everything is a necessity. All this, and I haven't even put an uplink down to spawn back into (yet another 2-4 uplinks). So I am effectively at 10-11 pieces of equipment on the battlefield and all are of equal or higher quality than anything someone else can put out. Please tell me where this needs limited, for any reason, other than I make pushing those 2-3 fronts more difficult for my enemies. Now, I want you to realize that a Ishuukone Guaged hive (no rep) can be used up in no time (see 2-3 minutes at best) if 4-5 teammates are in a vicious firefight and use, literally, ANY granedes. Now I am hoofing it back again to replenish all of these, so I don't hear "Who's got ammo/rep?", which is exactly the worst sound a logi can hear (it means we aren't doing our job well enough). If I want a fallback position which is defensible immediately, that will add even more hives. One match in particular I am pretty sure I had about 22-25 pieces on the field at once almost the entire match. Yes, I earned about 6k WP that battle and went 0-6ish, but the important thing is we only lost about 20-30 clones the entire battle (with no redlining and constant direct firefighting).
Are people placing useless items on the field for strictly personal gain, regardless of usefulness, absolutely. Should you punish everyone because a few people wanna slay, but can't kill enough to get worthwhile WP, so they turn to MLT equip? I would almost agree if the limit was on MLT equip only, since there is no SP invested. However, if you are willing to put SP into Equipment rather than weapons/shields/armor, then you shouldn't be penalized more than you already are for making that choice. I rarely go positive (hard to kill someone with rep tool in hand) with K-D, but that was by choice. If you wanna make my support playstyle "effectively" useless, then I will just switch to assault (already got anything I need) or I will quit worrying about my teammates and start running MLT equip so I can slay, and WP farm, without really helping my team in any meaningful way. |
emtbraincase
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Posted - 2014.02.03 05:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
if 1 person can keep everything active, then that means more guns aimed at the enemies, and less repeating actons. |
emtbraincase
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Posted - 2014.02.04 20:33:00 -
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Rami Hamilo wrote:emtbraincase wrote:if 1 person can keep everything active, then that means more guns aimed at the enemies, and less repeating actons. I'm all for specialization for Logis, but I'm not for nerfing everything and make it an overly specialized role. As it stands, ONLY Logis will be able to do things, very specific things, and everyone else will be screwed because the equipment they use will be ****** and not worth wasting a slot and CPU/PG for. Right now, I'd be a-okay with just running a rep tool and scanner on my Gallente Logi and still fight like an assaulter as long as I have a heavy that has a lot of Armor.
Pretty much 1/2 of my fittings will be this after 1.8, along with my Minlogi for acting like a logi. Not much help for anything but my k/d (which still means nothing). Specialized logi is only useful if it is intended by the individual, but I understand a need for SOME specialization....just not this much. |
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