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Announcement:Weapon stats!

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 450	Posted - 2013.11.14 23:01:00 - [781] - Quote CCP - CPM said you have altered the numbers on these new weapons so can you release the updated numbers so we can see them and have the math wiz kids let us know which path to take But in all honesty - full disclosure is the best route.
Keri Starlight 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 2084	Posted - 2013.11.16 18:02:00 - [782] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: CCP - CPM said you have altered the numbers on these new weapons so can you release the updated numbers so we can see them and have the math wiz kids let us know which path to take But in all honesty - full disclosure is the best route. Yes, this. I'm honestly surprised that they changed the values basing on pure speculation... I mean, does that make any sense? Also, people are so focused on QQing about the Combat and Rail Rfile that thay are ignoring the 30 meters buff to the Scrambler's range. It's going to have the same range as the Rail but higher DPS, just saying... (I'm not complaining about the Scrambler, just comparing numbers) -1.7 ranges: AR 42m -> 48m, TAR 65m -> 60m -Goodbye my love, Tac AR "I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
Argent Mordred DUST University Ivy League 18	Posted - 2013.11.17 04:06:00 - [783] - Quote Anyone know what they changed on the rail rifle or any of the others? I am curious because I was excited for the rail rifle until I saw the charge time; it will probably be fine, but a long range weapon that has a delay between pulling the trigger and when it fires sounds like a bad idea.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 91	Posted - 2013.11.17 07:00:00 - [784] - Quote Argent Mordred wrote: Anyone know what they changed on the rail rifle or any of the others? I am curious because I was excited for the rail rifle until I saw the charge time; it will probably be fine, but a long range weapon that has a delay between pulling the trigger and when it fires sounds like a balanced idea. 1 word fixed
ROEG X Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 24	Posted - 2013.11.17 16:44:00 - [785] - Quote Omg you might as well just run around the battlefield naked with just your rifle because your modules protecting you against those stats are slim. ( Please Balance dropsuit and module protection ) The scrambler rifle looks beast with those beefy stats wow.
Llast 326 An Arkhos 490	Posted - 2013.11.17 22:36:00 - [786] - Quote Keri Starlight wrote: Daxxis KANNAH wrote: CCP - CPM said you have altered the numbers on these new weapons so can you release the updated numbers so we can see them and have the math wiz kids let us know which path to take But in all honesty - full disclosure is the best route. Yes, this. I'm honestly surprised that they changed the values basing on pure speculation... I mean, does that make any sense? Also, people are so focused on QQing about the Combat and Rail Rfile that thay are ignoring the 30 meters buff to the Scrambler's range. It's going to have the same range as the Rail but higher DPS, just saying... (I'm not complaining about the Scrambler, just comparing numbers) It may not be changes based solely on speculation. The speculation may have given a basis for Devs to test somethings from a different perspective and lead to a different balancing approach to something that may have been an actual issue in testing. I am apparently not the only fool
Argent Mordred DUST University Ivy League 19	Posted - 2013.11.18 14:43:00 - [787] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: 1 word fixed No, not particularly. Long range weapons like the sniper rifle in this game already require plenty of precision timing on a moving target before you introduce a spin up time, like the hmg has, and lag. For the tl;dr crowd, summary: for various reasons adding charge/spin time to the rail rifle, which if it is anything like the breach rifle is already more than balanced, would hurt it's ability to be useful in it's intended range. The way the regular scrambler rifle works is fine for long range, as you just charge it up and it fires when you release the trigger. The rail rifle can't work like this, because it is automatic and you need to be able to hold down the trigger to indicate how long a burst as you want; so it must be a spin up like the hmg. The spin up may be fine for the hmg, a close range weapon suppression weapon, but the rail rifle is supposed to be long range weapon. Having an AR that has a delay seems counter productive, as an assault rifle is a general purpose weapon. An AR user's goal should be to maneuver to cover and begin engage the target with short bursts at medium to long range or long bursts in cqb. Other weapons might be more powerful, and have more drawbacks, like the hmg, forge gun, or plasma cannon, but there needs to be a weapon for each faction that can be issued to most of their troops. One that will fire on demand so that support weapons can have the necessary time to move into position and be deployed. Also the current breach rifle is pretty mediocre, so if the fire rates are the same but other stats have been adjusted to fit better, the weapon already has a pretty good drawback for balancing purposes. So why balance something that is already balanced? The sniper rifle doesn't seem to have this spin/charge up time (I don't think the laser rifle does either, but it also tracks the target more so it is a bit of an oddball.) So why add spin up time to a rifle that is medium to long range when longer range weapons that are more specialized don't have it? From my experience sniping, when you are at long range, your target is harder to hit (being smaller) and tracking your target is also harder than in close quarters with the plasma AR. And once the target goes around a corner or behind cover in long range firefight, he is gone. So why add time to kill to this rifle that other weapons in the same class don't have when that will impair it's function at it's intended range? Also short bursts are more useful, but the weapon discourages short bursts as it adds a delay between firing and firing again so you might be better off firing 9 rounds in a burst rather than tapping out 3 three round bursts with an extra delay of .04 charge time. Don't believe me on the last point? Ever wonder why heavies in city maps tend to spin up and shoot at the wall for a couple seconds before popping out of cover? If they don't waste rounds, they may not be able to fire in time. * Yes, the hmg has problems, but my understanding is that the issue is lack of accuracy (high dispersion) and poor actual dps as a result as well as being only usable on a suit that is unable to dictate range, not the spin up itself.
Marlon S Pike Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1	Posted - 2013.11.18 20:48:00 - [788] - Quote New Rifles look great but am concerned about the lock range nerf on swarms - with the speed of tanks let alone dropships and LAV's how to you envision it being possible to get more than one shot off on a target?
danthrax martin Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.11.19 02:40:00 - [789] - Quote Run First to die, last to cry
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 98	Posted - 2013.11.19 04:36:00 - [790] - Quote Marlon S Pike wrote: New Rifles look great but am concerned about the lock range nerf on swarms - with the speed of tanks let alone dropships and LAV's how to you envision it being possible to get more than one shot off on a target? i've killed a dropship 150m away, easy recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit

CharCharOdell 1561	Posted - 2013.11.19 04:44:00 - [791] - Quote Marlon S Pike wrote: New Rifles look great but am concerned about the lock range nerf on swarms - with the speed of tanks let alone dropships and LAV's how to you envision it being possible to get more than one shot off on a target? if you can't get off 3 volleys in .9 seconds, you're doing it wrong. i think you'll be fine. i still manage to solo tanks with my nerd swarms. Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
CharCharOdell 1561	Posted - 2013.11.19 04:46:00 - [792] - Quote Luk Manag wrote: Templar 514 wrote: Did you actually read the post? Like, this part (emphasis mine): CCP Wolfman wrote: Lastly, as part of the ongoing vehicle work I can confirm we are also making changes to AV. So far weGÇÖve touched the AV Grenades and Swarm Launcher, *we do also plan to look at the Forge Gun. For the record, AV grenade/Swarm changes are equal to the vehicle changes that are also coming in 1.7. So I don't think that it's out of line, that both vehicles and AV weapons are being changed to bring general balance between the two. Yeah, no. The range nerfing will gimp the swarm launchers. You'll need to be on the top of a building to lock a dropship, and you will need to jump off to lock random LAVs and HAVs. Forge guns will be our only option. but that makes since. light weapon av = light av effectiveness heavy weapon av = super awesome solo power it makes perfect sense. why should alight weapon kill a heavy vehicle so easily!? Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition*
CharCharOdell 1561	Posted - 2013.11.19 04:47:00 - [793] - Quote Wombat in combat wrote: Here is my feedback. 1. Stop using the nerf hammer, use the nerf screwdriver; i.e. do gradual tweaks. 2. Swarm launchers are being hammered into uselessness. Sure the lock on range could have used a nerf but not by this margin. I don't think there was a need to reduce the damage by 33%. Reducing the clip size from 5 to 3 was fair enough IMO. tanks got a 25% pg nerf. a 33% nerf to yolonades and lolswarms is in order. Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
CharCharOdell 1561	Posted - 2013.11.19 04:51:00 - [794] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Text Grant wrote: It shouldn't take teamwork to kill one player. No matter his isk involved. It offsets teams and ruins infantry gameplay So you mean to tell me it shouldn't take teamwork to destroy one massive game changing force multiplier? Why should it be a 'game changing force multiplier'? Because you want it to be a win button? a win button? it'll spend more than half of its time running away. if hardeners are on for 45 seconds, that's 15 seconds in, 15 seconds to kill, 15 seconds to run away, and then almost a minute until it can start over. tanks will be heavy artillery OR battering rams i dont think theyll ever be the stomping romping death machines they used to be ever again if my math is right, then everyone will be happy. tanks will be god mode for a minute, and then easy to solo for the next. this means the days of tanks going 40 and 0 are over Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
CharCharOdell 1561	Posted - 2013.11.19 04:53:00 - [795] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: My reasoning behind FGs being OP is that they only sacrifice very little ease of use for very high versatility. IMO if a weapon can kill anything in the game, and OHK people, it should be exceedingly hard to use. I like to call this concept of making hard to use weapons better 'balancing for skill'. The FG flies in the face of balancing for skill. It has one of the longest ranges in the game, does the most damage, and has perfect accuracy, and isn't really that hard to use at all. The only downside of the FG is its charge and its limited Ammo supply, and the charge isn't even much of a downside because you can hold it. It outperforms the Plasma Cannon in almost every way, despite being easier to use. It has a higher DPS, doesn't have projectile drop(or slow speed), has a faster fire rate and can fire more rounds before it has to reload(which is only barely longer than the Placons reload I might add). Keep in mind that I don't want to nerf the FGs DPS. It needs it to be an effective AV weapon. What I want is for it to be much harder to use against infantry. In the same way the Placon is better at killing infantry than vehicles, I want the FG to be better at killing vehicles than infantry, by making it harder to use against infantry. how? the splash nerf to forges did nothing bc people can aim their forge guns. just like the rail, most good forgers dont rely on splash. the get direct hits most of the time. The best we could do is reduce it's splash to nothing and hope that forge gunners forget how to aim. Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1254	Posted - 2013.11.19 06:43:00 - [796] - Quote Marlon S Pike wrote: New Rifles look great but am concerned about the lock range nerf on swarms - with the speed of tanks let alone dropships and LAV's how to you envision it being possible to get more than one shot off on a target? Squad with a tanker. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Pisidon Gmen Ivory Vanguard 10	Posted - 2013.11.19 10:12:00 - [797] - Quote why do we need new weapons at all ??????????????? and why is every 1 some new version of an assault rifle do we really need more assault rifles or scrambler like weapons ? will we get skill resets so we can use the mills of sp we spent in weapons that will be obsolete?? we currently have plenty of over powered weapons 4 the hp of the drop suits or is every one to run a heavy suit ? nerff the lock on range of swarms should we all have to run a proto forge to kill them why o why i have a hard time killing lav and tanks now with a 3 round clip b4 they can drive away to there red zone and from 175mlock on a instillation will be shooting me before the 2nd wave is off at it and tanks and lavs will drive away or kill me b4 there is any chance of killing them do to being to close in a drop suit vs armor! If any thing we need more range drop ships can fly so high and fast some are all most impossible to kill the same goes fore av grenades if lav drivers dide't try to run every one over they wouldn't get blown up all the time from players that carry av granades to kill them do to being sick of players who will circle around u tell they can run you over. and if ur in a free or malita lav or tank u deserved to die faster then some 1 that has mills of sp in lav and or tank skills how about the dust developers work on 1 thing at a time and not try changing more then 1 thing at a time mb then it wont take 2 or 3 mounts to make a needed change like why do we have militia weapons with un buffed damage per sec over 400 hp witch get just crazy as u level up in weapons to prot and add proficient and damage mods ? why do we get hit markers with no damage ? when can we get a lock on lav tanks and drop ships so randoms cant steal stuff they didn't call in at least make it squad only how about vegetation on the planets may be some trees something to hide in as tanks go by or a drop ship flies by why is every planet a dead rock with a few turfs of dead grass the forums are full of suggestions of things to do several brought up meany time but new weapons and possibly nerffing a weapon that is all ready hard to use
Pisidon Gmen Ivory Vanguard 10	Posted - 2013.11.19 10:23:00 - [798] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Text Grant wrote: It shouldn't take teamwork to kill one player. No matter his isk involved. It offsets teams and ruins infantry gameplay So you mean to tell me it shouldn't take teamwork to destroy one massive game changing force multiplier? Why should it be a 'game changing force multiplier'? Because you want it to be a win button? a win button? it'll spend more than half of its time running away. if hardeners are on for 45 seconds, that's 15 seconds in, 15 seconds to kill, 15 seconds to run away, and then almost a minute until it can start over. tanks will be heavy artillery OR battering rams i dont think theyll ever be the stomping romping death machines they used to be ever again if my math is right, then everyone will be happy. tanks will be god mode for a minute, and then easy to solo for the next. this means the days of tanks going 40 and 0 are over i think a good tank should be able to go 40 and 0 if it has infantry back up and no one comes in with av weapons to kill it but it shouldent take a full squad of 6 to kill it do to that then leaves 6 players open to infantry fire but 1 or 2 players should b able to destroy it b4 it can run away to the red line and hide tell it reps back up unless we are going to start getting wp and isk based on damage dealt in battle i have meany time dealt 20k to 30 k damage swarming drop ships and tanks only to have them run away and reappear latter. this is grate as i stop them from being effect on the battle field but i get no isk or sp from it . that is also with the 400 metter setting and av grenades as to the 400 m ever seen a drop ship fly up so high and fast thet it out runs the swarm?
Pisidon Gmen Ivory Vanguard 10	Posted - 2013.11.19 10:24:00 - [799] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: Wombat in combat wrote: Here is my feedback. 1. Stop using the nerf hammer, use the nerf screwdriver; i.e. do gradual tweaks. 2. Swarm launchers are being hammered into uselessness. Sure the lock on range could have used a nerf but not by this margin. I don't think there was a need to reduce the damage by 33%. Reducing the clip size from 5 to 3 was fair enough IMO. tanks got a 25% pg nerf. a 33% nerf to yolonades and lolswarms is in order.
CharCharOdell 1569	Posted - 2013.11.19 14:06:00 - [800] - Quote Pisidon Gmen wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: Wombat in combat wrote: Here is my feedback. 1. Stop using the nerf hammer, use the nerf screwdriver; i.e. do gradual tweaks. 2. Swarm launchers are being hammered into uselessness. Sure the lock on range could have used a nerf but not by this margin. I don't think there was a need to reduce the damage by 33%. Reducing the clip size from 5 to 3 was fair enough IMO. tanks got a 25% pg nerf. a 33% nerf to yolonades and lolswarms is in order. but how do u change it all at 1 time and expect to know how it will work this is using a railroad spike to hang a pic when all u need is a tack what good is my swarm launcher if i have to be so close with as wide open as the maps are several times i want just 1 more swarm b4 reload do to as i reload they hit the booster and drive a 80 ton tank at lighting speed little tweeks is all thats needed just slowing down the tanks wood have helped and limiting the amount of ammo b4 they have to stop and reload to prevent target spamming But no we nurff every thing related to tanks and what killes them why not just remove them all together then u can take out installations too cause most of them are only good to blow up do to bad placement stop using the 15lb hammer when it only needs a little tap from a tack hammer stop using metaphors twice in a post. but no, it is definitely in order because AV got buffed and tanks got nerfed for every recent build after chrome. Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition

Keri Starlight 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 2144	Posted - 2013.11.19 18:54:00 - [801] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: Keri Starlight wrote: Daxxis KANNAH wrote: CCP - CPM said you have altered the numbers on these new weapons so can you release the updated numbers so we can see them and have the math wiz kids let us know which path to take But in all honesty - full disclosure is the best route. Yes, this. I'm honestly surprised that they changed the values basing on pure speculation... I mean, does that make any sense? Also, people are so focused on QQing about the Combat and Rail Rfile that thay are ignoring the 30 meters buff to the Scrambler's range. It's going to have the same range as the Rail but higher DPS, just saying... (I'm not complaining about the Scrambler, just comparing numbers) It may not be changes based solely on speculation. The speculation may have given a basis for Devs to test somethings from a different perspective and lead to a different balancing approach to something that may have been an actual issue in testing. Good observation. -1.7 ranges: AR 42m -> 48m, TAR 65m -> 60m -Goodbye my love, Tac AR "I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
Alena Ventrallis Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 150	Posted - 2013.11.19 22:17:00 - [802] - Quote Scrambler rifles get a range buff? jubilant dancing
Jakobi Wan Legions of Infinite Dominion 46	Posted - 2013.11.20 19:19:00 - [803] - Quote these guys dont give a ** about us heavies and they dont give a about us foot-soldiers.. how the am i supposed to hit a dropship with a swarm launcher within 175m? you want me to have to take my own dropship up after them and then jump out hoping my lock-on targets before my inertia dampening auto-dive kicks in and sends me plummiting to the ground? get ur right... correction... GET OUR RIGHT!!! we ar the ones putting our free time into this game and u wanna us over like this??? i understand change is neccisary but this is not change this is almost a new game!!!! if an assault FORGE gun cant take out dropships anymore i've officially lost faith in this group.. they have the audacity to call something a "FORGE" gun and feel it necessary to turn it into a "TICKLE" gun? these people are just playing a sick joke on us at the cost of our time and money.. they dont give a ** because they know they can just release more PSN exclusive gear or omega boosters and BAM! they're back at status quot these people have no clear vision for this game and that's what makes me even more suspecious and less friendly towards they're ridicules "tweeks" come on now people, they're "tweaking" this game like the crackhead down the street tweaks on his pipe.. get my drift?
Mr m4gic Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 19	Posted - 2013.11.20 19:35:00 - [804] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Hi guys, ItGÇÖs time for some stats! Before you dive in to them let me remind you these are still a work in progress First off there has been a fair bit of speculation surrounding the upcoming Combat Rifle and Rail Rifle. Speculate no more, for here are their current stats: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/news.control/65248/1/riflestats17.jpg[/img] As a part of their introduction to the game we also plan to rejig the rifle range profiles in line with the weapon type. Rail Rifles are hybrid GÇô railgun tech and are therefore the longest range weapons in the game, followed by laser weapons, projectile weapons and then hybrid GÇô blaster weapons. In the chart below you can see how they stack up Vs one another: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/news.control/65234/1/rifleranges17.jpg[/img] Lastly, as part of the ongoing vehicle work I can confirm we are also making changes to AV. So far weGÇÖve touched the AV Grenades and Swarm Launcher, we do also plan to look at the Forge Gun. These are the current numbers we are testing: - Reduced AV grenade damage (STD: 1050 -> 725; ADV: 1260 -> 870; PRO: 1470->1015 ) - Reduced swarm launcher damage (330 -> 220) - Reduced Swarm Launcher lock-on range from 400m to 175m WeGÇÖre looking forward to hearing your feedback! . CCP Wolfman can we get an increase in range of the av grenades they seem to flop when i throw them.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1283	Posted - 2013.11.21 00:16:00 - [805] - Quote say no to bpo removal! insert witty or profound statement here _______.
Ralden Caster Omega Elite Mercs INC. 0	Posted - 2013.11.22 00:03:00 - [806] - Quote For scope type, what's ACO6?
Divu Aakmin UNIVERSAL BONDAGE 12	Posted - 2013.11.22 00:51:00 - [807] - Quote I see the less pg/cpu of the combat rifle vs. Rail... but honestly the CR are a bit like a longer range smg w/ scope and burst. The rail does 20%-30% more damage AND has full auto with lower rof. It is hard to say what is superior without using one...could someone link comparisons to current tac ar, ar and smg? Its hard to base an educated opinion without a frame of reference. I'll admit fully auto scoped tac ars make me uneasy... but i dont want to jump to conclusions. But Do want to jump on the band wagon of a new OP weapon variant. Hooray selling out to the fotm.
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 456	Posted - 2013.11.22 01:12:00 - [808] - Quote CR uses less resources by design as they are Minmatar weapons. The CR has more range than the Current AR's and will fire significantly faster but the ones with the comparable damage (to the AR) will have a pause between the burst fire to hopefully make it balanced. The full auto CR will have the SMG type damage to even it out. The Rail Rifle will have a quick charge time and then fire full auto with more range than all the rifles but it will most likely be difficult to keep your target lined up because the weapon will have significant kick We dont know if Scopes will change for any of the rifle and if the ironsight on the Rail will mitigate alot of the kick.
toasterwaffles THE IMMORTAL L3GI0N 9	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:42:00 - [809] - Quote https://sites.google.com/site/theimmortall3gi0n/ check it out^^^^^^^^^
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 256	Posted - 2013.11.22 12:12:00 - [810] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: Luk Manag wrote: Templar 514 wrote: Did you actually read the post? Like, this part (emphasis mine): CCP Wolfman wrote: Lastly, as part of the ongoing vehicle work I can confirm we are also making changes to AV. So far weGÇÖve touched the AV Grenades and Swarm Launcher, *we do also plan to look at the Forge Gun. For the record, AV grenade/Swarm changes are equal to the vehicle changes that are also coming in 1.7. So I don't think that it's out of line, that both vehicles and AV weapons are being changed to bring general balance between the two. Yeah, no. The range nerfing will gimp the swarm launchers. You'll need to be on the top of a building to lock a dropship, and you will need to jump off to lock random LAVs and HAVs. Forge guns will be our only option. but that makes since. light weapon av = light av effectiveness heavy weapon av = super awesome solo power it makes perfect sense. why should alight weapon kill a heavy vehicle so easily!? You have a point BUT the problem is our current Light AV (Swarms and PLC shrug*) is not really suited to hunt down Light Vehicles. The Dropship can outfly Swarms and gets reduced damage from swarms. And even a LAV driver with half a brain can outrun swarms unless he is using a STD one. And serious do you believe we should use Proto (light) AV to counter just std LAVs.



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