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[Feedback] Time-To-Kill (TTK) is still much too short. Fix it.

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Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2701	Posted - 2013.10.10 22:50:00 - [1] - Quote This became a huge thing when 1.4 launched, and it's killed a lot of the satisfaction in the game for a significant chunk of the player-base. The assumption when 1.4 launched is that is was all because of aim-assist (remember all those threads), yet there was also a matter where hit-detection of various weapons had improved in tandem. This was something you (CCP) said you'd be watching. I hope you've seen by now how laughably short someone's life is under the gun of even a MLT-grade quality. What do you think makes Dust unique in comparison to something like Halo or Quake? You would think the fact that character advancement allows you to customize your suit would be a large factor, no? Take a look at this Halo video. From the point at which the video starts, you can see it takes him a couple direct volleys with his rifle to drop/kill his opponent. It's about 6 seconds or so, and his aim is pretty good. Halo is a deathmatch sort of game where your suits are not custom and the battles are meant to be frantic and short. Compare that to Dust 514 in 1.4. (this is from CEOPyrex's video) Aside from the fact that his aim was all over the place and he was barely hitting him, it's even quicker to kill people in Dust, a game where you can fit armor/shield modules and be customized after MONTHS of play. The fact you can drop people super-quick now isn't a newsflash; it's been all over the forums since 1.4 dropped. I've heard a few suggestions for fixes, but perhaps removing the 10% across the board damage increase you gave with all the hit-detection issues at launch would be a good start. Please fix this. Fittings, skills, etc. are supposed to matter. Right now you've rendered 90% of skills pointless as a Frontline Starter with a MLT rifle and Zero SP invested can drop just about anyone faster than those guys in Halo, etc. If you want your game to be something different, then realize shooting for faster/more-death-laden gameplay than a Halo, etc. game is not the direction you want to be heading.
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 360	Posted - 2013.10.10 22:56:00 - [2] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: This became a huge thing when 1.4 launched, and it's killed a lot of the satisfaction in the game for a significant chunk of the player-base. The assumption when 1.4 launched is that is was all because of aim-assist (remember all those threads), yet there was also a matter where hit-detection of various weapons had improved in tandem. This was something you (CCP) said you'd be watching. I hope you've seen by now how laughably short someone's life is under the gun of even a MLT-grade quality. What do you think makes Dust unique in comparison to something like Halo or Quake? You would think the fact that character advancement allows you to customize your suit would be a large factor, no? Take a look at this Halo video. From the point at which the video starts, you can see it takes him a couple direct volleys with his rifle to drop/kill his opponent. It's about 6 seconds or so, and his aim is pretty good. Halo is a deathmatch sort of game where your suits are not custom and the battles are meant to be frantic and short. Compare that to Dust 514 in 1.4. (this is from CEOPyrex's video) Aside from the fact that his aim was all over the place and he was barely hitting him, it's even quicker to kill people in Dust, a game where you can fit armor/shield modules and be customized after MONTHS of play. The fact you can drop people super-quick now isn't a newsflash; it's been all over the forums since 1.4 dropped. I've heard a few suggestions for fixes, but perhaps removing the 10% across the board damage increase you gave with all the hit-detection issues at launch would be a good start. Please fix this. Fittings, skills, etc. are supposed to matter. Right now you've rendered 90% of skills pointless as a Frontline Starter with a MLT rifle and Zero SP invested can drop just about anyone faster than those guys in Halo, etc. If you want your game to be something different, then realize shooting for faster/more-death-laden gameplay than a Halo, etc. game is not the direction you want to be heading. Agreed, I can barely shield people while I revive them anymore, remove 10% buff.
Archbot W a r F o r g e d 6	Posted - 2013.10.10 23:00:00 - [3] - Quote I have to agree with you. Sometimes I can't even react because I die so fast.
lrian Locust We Who Walk Alone 174	Posted - 2013.10.11 00:03:00 - [4] - Quote I agree, too. There's no time to react. The balance is gone: continuous DPS-weapons (e.g. AR, SMG) kill mercs faster than high alpha-damage weapons (shotgun, sniper). Remove the 10% buff for weapons with aim assist, please.
lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion 99	Posted - 2013.10.11 00:10:00 - [5] - Quote lrian Locust wrote: I agree, too. There's no time to react. The balance is gone: continuous DPS-weapons (e.g. AR, SMG) kill mercs faster than high alpha-damage weapons (shotgun, sniper). Remove the 10% buff for weapons with aim assist, please. As someone that uses AR's on a lot of my suits, I completely agree with this, I can kill people way to fast with aim assisted guns, to where a proto suit can not react at all before it is dead. Something needs to happen to relieve what is happening lately.
Cosgar ParagonX 5772	Posted - 2013.10.11 00:29:00 - [6] - Quote Agreeing with everyone above me. The short TTK we have doesn't work with the character building mechanics we have- especially when there's currency involved. Players deserve enough decency to shoot back, no matter if they're wearing MLT or prototype.
lrian Locust We Who Walk Alone 175	Posted - 2013.10.11 01:54:00 - [7] - Quote Another advantage of removing the 10% buff is that shield, speed, armor and stamina upgrades actually start to help scouts. I've stopped dumping SP into shield and armor, because as a scout I don't care whether I die in 0.2 or 0.3 seconds.
Meeko Fent DUST University Ivy League 1113	Posted - 2013.10.11 02:12:00 - [8] - Quote Agreed, remove it.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 173	Posted - 2013.10.11 04:56:00 - [9] - Quote This isn't meant to be early Quake, etc. in terms of how long it takes you to kill someone. I don't know if 10% removed alone will fix it (or if AA still is a factor) but something needs to be done.
Keri Starlight Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 687	Posted - 2013.10.11 05:05:00 - [10] - Quote Just my opinion, but I think that TTK is perfectly fine.

Meeko Fent DUST University Ivy League 1119	Posted - 2013.10.11 05:13:00 - [11] - Quote Keri Starlight wrote: Just my opinion, but I think that TTK is perfectly fine. Hmm. Myself I think its a LITTLE too quick. Removing the 10% damage buff would just reign her into right where it should be.
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 1420	Posted - 2013.10.11 05:45:00 - [12] - Quote If we're talking about 1v1 situations with cover, fights can last about 10 seconds. If you're caught off guard it's only natural you should be taken down mercilessly. This encourages moving as a team and not running out into the open. In that regard it's important not to make us invincible as well as immortal. HOWEVER, I agree that it does make much of the fitting for HP redundant, although with my Exile AR the HP difference between a mlt fit and a proto fit is VERY noticeable (although I don't use aim assist so maybe it's just my aim). What really is suffering from short TTKs are dropships vs. railguns and/or forges and swarms.
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 366	Posted - 2013.10.11 11:51:00 - [13] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: If we're talking about 1v1 situations with cover, fights can last about 10 seconds. If you're caught off guard it's only natural you should be taken down mercilessly. This encourages moving as a team and not running out into the open. In that regard it's important not to make us invincible as well as immortal. HOWEVER, I agree that it does make much of the fitting for HP redundant, although with my Exile AR the HP difference between a mlt fit and a proto fit is VERY noticeable (although I don't use aim assist so maybe it's just my aim). What really is suffering from short TTKs are dropships vs. railguns and/or forges and swarms. From what iv experienced it encourages lonewolf mlt suit wearers to sneak around and shoot you in the back. The ttk is ridiculously quick, iv noticed a huge increase in troll play rather than gun fights, I can't even run and pick someone up while using my Logis massive HP to shield them now, begs the question why the fk have I got this HP, it gives me half a second survivability over mlt fits and don't get me started on how badly I **** heavies with my smg.
Xaviah Reaper Nyain San EoN. 112	Posted - 2013.10.11 11:58:00 - [14] - Quote I think all except HMG should lose the 10% buff. those guys need a break. getting out gunned vs a basic AR when you have full hp and an mh82 point blank, isn't logical
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 184	Posted - 2013.10.11 14:43:00 - [15] - Quote Xaviah Reaper wrote: I think all except HMG should lose the 10% buff. those guys need a break. getting out gunned vs a basic AR when you have full hp and an mh82 point blank, isn't logical Id agree with that, I mean, I feel like I should be a little more worried when someone with a huge armored suit and mini gun is coming at me (at short/mid range) and I'm kinda not. Another decent option is to increase the kick/recoil on the AR to be more like an AScR to make it a little less of a long range weapon.
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 366	Posted - 2013.10.11 15:01:00 - [16] - Quote Bump
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2713	Posted - 2013.10.11 15:58:00 - [17] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Xaviah Reaper wrote: I think all except HMG should lose the 10% buff. those guys need a break. getting out gunned vs a basic AR when you have full hp and an mh82 point blank, isn't logical Id agree with that, I mean, I feel like I should be a little more worried when someone with a huge armored suit and mini gun is coming at me (at short/mid range) and I'm kinda not. Another decent option is to increase the kick/recoil on the AR to be more like an AScR to make it a little less of a long range weapon. I think a large part of the gripes about the AR is the prevalence of the weapon. Most weapons where hit detection and/or aim is a factor became more powerful in 1.4 though. The weapons that didn't become "better" were ones that couldn't benefit from that sort of thing: Sniper Rifles (still have issues with texture glitches, etc.,), Swarm Launcher (already tracked), and so on. Weapons with higher rates of fire could benefit from both hit detection AND aim-assist. If a sniper has a hit detection issue (not uncommon), then they take another shot. Weapons like the SMG and AR though get a double benefit from hit detection and aim-assist, which is what made them so deadly. The 10% bonus was added to damage originally across the board partially because people were complaining about difficulty killing people. That's because when Dust 514 launched in May, there were various rendering, lag, and engine issues that were taking a huge toll on hit detection. This was said originally: Quote: Tl;dr version: GÇó In the next hot-fix weapons will all get a 10% damage increase to compensate for the removal of the Weaponry skill bonus. GÇó HMG damage buffed to 18 HP (including aforementioned 10% increase) and given a 5% dispersion buff. GÇó In the near future, we will address range issues by removing the hard stop that currently takes place at maximum weapon range. In Chromosome, the Weaponry skill gave an across the board 2% damage bonus to handheld weapons per level. Given the low SP cost of the skill (and the fact that itGÇÖs a pre-req for every weapon in the game) the majority of players would just skill straight to level 5 making the skill pretty pointless. So, in Uprising we removed the skill bonus. The side effect of this, of course, is that time-to-kill has increased. This, combined with some of the control issues weGÇÖve been seeing, has led to combat feeling worse than it did in Chromosome. We will address this with a hot-fix that gives an across the board 10% increase to all handheld weapon damage to put DPS back to where it was. Additionally, weGÇÖve increased HMG damage and reduced the dispersion penalty when moving by 5% to address issues with the weapon. The removal of the Sharpshooter skill (which gave bonuses to range) has also highlighted some issues with range in general. Weapon classes need unique range profiles. I doubt anyone would dispute that. And the sharpshooter skill was pushing far too many weapons beyond their intended engagement ranges. While itGÇÖs removal has caused some issues, the SS skill was a crutch and it hid more deep-seated problems with range in the game. It will not be coming back. This is from a post date MAY TENTH. So, they decided to give a blanket 10% bonus within about 3 days of the new build coming out (Dust's newer build actually launched a week before the 14th). This means they made this change based on an uproar in about 3 days of gameplay. An uproar where people had problems killing people as fast as they used to... BUT the frustration factor of killing people was largely impacted by these things: The removal of the Sharpshooter skill Everyone in Chromosome was used to having augmented reach on their weapons. hard stop that currently takes place at maximum weapon range Prior to that more recent fix, your weapons did zero damage outside of max range, and there wasn't really "fall-off" Controls/hit-detection issues This was also acknowledged at the time (3 days post build-launch): Quote: Aiming and control system in general: We have done a massive amount of updates to this area of the game with Uprising, laying an enhanced tech foundation for all of these systems to iterate on into the future, and of course, this has come with a lot of feedback as well in the days since Uprising deployment. We are aware of the issue that some players are experiencing GÇ£slipperyGÇ¥ feel of aiming and general gameplay experience, and our team is carefully looking into tweaking controls schemes for both keyboard and mouse and the Dualshock controller. For example, we have made changes to the input settings on the mouse which should improve the smoothness and fine aiming. The new values are very similar to those in Chromosome (though not identical). Expect CCP Wolfman to have detailed discussions about this particular issue on the forums here. Again, there are updates to this going out right now as I type this. Read: -They changed how aiming worked with the launch with a mind to "iterate on it in the future"(and people complained about difficulty killing people). -The bonus to damage basically fixed the "TTK" problem while they worked on the controls and hit-detection (iterated on it) So, we have a damage bonus that was in part a reaction to an outcry of players reacting to changing what they familiar with, but it was actually a combined issue with: less range, aiming/control, hit-detection/rendering, and fall-off damage issues. So, if we're at a point where these other issue have been fixed; it's time for the crutch TO GO!
Rogatien Merc Red Star. EoN. 1441	Posted - 2013.10.11 17:29:00 - [18] - Quote I've been an AR apologist for a long time. But since 1.4 dropped... yeah. They have since degraded the Aim Assist from what was OP day one, which I think everyone acknowledges, but the increase in hit detection has significantly increased AR dps. I will say the path to non-AR FOTM is a slippery slope though... a STD aur laser with 0 SP invested still eats through ~750 hp in less than 0.5 seconds at extreme ranges if it is hot due to the aim assist helping it at range. Nerf the AR and it will be king again. If you nerf AR in conjunction with fixing SG hit detection and a shotty scout can charge through concentrated AR fire to two-shot you in the face... that's too much. A shield-tanked massdriver is still very effective in CQC, and if you nerf AR back to pre-1.4 levels and the AR can't out DPS a weapon that splashes around corners... it is going to return as the weapon to use. 10% nerf might be too much, but I agree there is an issue.
Meeko Fent DUST University Ivy League 1130	Posted - 2013.10.11 20:30:00 - [19] - Quote Rogatien Merc wrote: I've been an AR apologist for a long time. But since 1.4 dropped... yeah. They have since degraded the Aim Assist from what was OP day one, which I think everyone acknowledges, but the increase in hit detection has significantly increased AR dps. I will say the path to non-AR FOTM is a slippery slope though... a STD aur laser with 0 SP invested still eats through ~750 hp in less than 0.5 seconds at extreme ranges if it is hot due to the aim assist helping it at range. Nerf the AR and it will be king again. If you nerf AR in conjunction with fixing SG hit detection and a shotty scout can charge through concentrated AR fire to two-shot you in the face... that's too much. A shield-tanked massdriver is still very effective in CQC, and if you nerf AR back to pre-1.4 levels and the AR can't out DPS a weapon that splashes around corners... it is going to return as the weapon to use. 10% nerf might be too much, but I agree there is an issue. That's why ALL weapons are going to get this Nerf.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2725	Posted - 2013.10.12 20:58:00 - [20] - Quote I think across the board would be the best bet, though I can see why people that use weapons that haven't benefitted from the AA/hit-detection or that have other underlying issues would feel that's a bad idea.

Thurak1 Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 279	Posted - 2013.10.12 23:04:00 - [21] - Quote As someone that USED to play heavy a lot i totally agree. I now mostly play assault so i can have at least some chance of getting some cover so i can survive a firefight. I have very similar ehps with my assault suit also which is frustrating given how much movement is sacrificed to be a heavy. For now with the crap ccp has handed me i find that my favorite fittings are my assault with scrambler and my assault with duvol and complex damage mod. With either fitting i get some nice mobility and excellent take down power that honestly out shines my heavy with boundless + complex damage mod. Mostly because with the heavy my mobility is so restrictive i die very fast it seems like i am a giant bullet magnet. I now bust out my heavy with a FG only when the situation is going to give me a sizable advantage (ie the team needs a big push out of a CQC area or i am going to do some forge gun sniping or there are tanks to bust)
Cosgar ParagonX 5929	Posted - 2013.10.13 11:09:00 - [22] - Quote Just tested a pure shield tanking fit with a shield recharge delay of 2 seconds. I can't even live long enough to get to cover so my shields can pop. What a joke...
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1158	Posted - 2013.10.13 11:19:00 - [23] - Quote I would have to say that the time to kill is a bit quick for a tracking dps game . This only really occurd after the birth if aimassist combind with its twin improved hit detection. Niw the only way round this is either 1 of 3 ways 1 leave it all allone and allow dust to remain a fast pased semi twich shooter. 2 give everything 100% more hp in total.leaving the dps the same 3 lower the dps of every thing by 50% and leave the hp where it is The first option really explains its self and tge secont 2 options would increas engagement times across the board as well as make for more tactical gameplay as you simply wouldent be able to just appear and kill in less than half a second. Now I can see allot of flame from the ar cod boys who suddenly got good at this game after the introduction of improved aim assist and hit detection.
Cosgar ParagonX 5929	Posted - 2013.10.13 11:33:00 - [24] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: I would have to say that the time to kill is a bit quick for a tracking dps game . This only really occurd after the birth if aimassist combind with its twin improved hit detection. Niw the only way round this is either 1 of 3 ways 1 leave it all allone and allow dust to remain a fast pased semi twich shooter. 2 give everything 100% more hp in total.leaving the dps the same 3 lower the dps of every thing by 50% and leave the hp where it is The first option really explains its self and tge secont 2 options would increas engagement times across the board as well as make for more tactical gameplay as you simply wouldent be able to just appear and kill in less than half a second. Now I can see allot of flame from the ar cod boys who suddenly got good at this game after the introduction of improved aim assist and hit detection. They sot of did 2 for Uprising by introducing efficacy to skils and partially did 3 by removing the weaponry skill. But the problem was instead of focusing on fixing aiming they made knee jerk changes during the first damn week of Uprising, just to have something reasonably presentable on that cute 5/14 release date. Now all those hot fixes that were meant to compensate for what they couldn't fix- aiming, are ruining the purpose of investing SP into your character since we all have huge hit boxes, can't strafe, and automatic weapons fire homing bullets. I'm pretty sure if they rolled back those changes to compensate for aiming problems, TTK would be in a good place again. CoD players be damned since they're going to leave for Ghost anyway...
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1159	Posted - 2013.10.13 11:42:00 - [25] - Quote I did have an after thought...... return all aiming and wepon balance back to that of chrome ... this would work especially with the removal of the sharp shooters old bonus whare we saw armies of ar snipers and hmgs that could drop a squad from 79m lol.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2729	Posted - 2013.10.13 14:54:00 - [26] - Quote I agree with some of the post-uprising changes. Removing sharpshooter was a good idea, because there WERE issues with playing with weapon ranges like that, and they still don't quite have a handle on weapon-range balance either. It works better in the context of EVE because of how engagements work there I think, but they can't cut-n-paste EVE mechanics and skills into Dust. I was hopefully communicating that the original damage buff and changes were knee-jerk, based on whining people subjected to many changes and issues at the same time. As Cosgar suggests, they probably made that change SOOO quickly because the official launch was coming a handful of days after that. There's some inherent discomfort in many players with TTK that's longer than a twitch shooter because I think a lot of people haven't played games of that nature. Dust is a lobby shooter with deathmatch, and that kind of design makes dropping people quickly and making your kill-count rise one of the key sources of satisfaction. Dust isn't quite aiming to be long TTK by strafe-fest either though I think. That's ALSO a different kind of game. If everyone moved faster than scouts, rocket jumped, and we had platforms acting as trampolines and launchers... different kind of game. The idea in Dust is SUPPPOSED to be one where it takes some time to kill a target... because they're friggin loaded with shields and armor and they spent 3 months becoming an expert in mitigating damage (as opposed to scanning, etc.). A solo player should take awhile to kill another solo player in the same sense that two knights might have to contend with the fact their sword can't just cut through the other guy's plate. The whole idea of having characters that are purposely "slower" and easier to hit is that they're sacrificing speed/evasion for the ability to tank damage (which barely exists now). To "actually" take down players quickly, you be using teamwork or doing something very intelligent or skillful, not twitching in their general direction.
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 422	Posted - 2013.10.13 17:53:00 - [27] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: If we're talking about 1v1 situations with cover, fights can last about 10 seconds. If you're caught off guard it's only natural you should be taken down mercilessly. This encourages moving as a team and not running out into the open. In that regard it's important not to make us invincible as well as immortal. HOWEVER, I agree that it does make much of the fitting for HP redundant, although with my Exile AR the HP difference between a mlt fit and a proto fit is VERY noticeable (although I don't use aim assist so maybe it's just my aim). What really is suffering from short TTKs are dropships vs. railguns and/or forges and swarms. The HP difference is huge but grinding to get all proto and costing that much isk to survive half a second longer is not cool. Being a medic repair logi is almost pointless unless out of combat now.
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 422	Posted - 2013.10.13 17:55:00 - [28] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Just tested a pure shield tanking fit with a shield recharge delay of 2 seconds. I can't even live long enough to get to cover so my shields can pop. What a joke... Iv found shield tanking seems a bit too hit and run, do or die now.
Denn Maell PIanet Express 3	Posted - 2013.10.14 00:13:00 - [29] - Quote I don't really mind the TTK as it is now. I don't really think it is the problem. I would like to see the game move more towards tactical-squad style FPS. If anything, I think that until recently we were too bullet spongy, shields were OP and Armor Tanking wasn't useful. I wouldn't mind seeing Heavies become a bit more bullet spongy (they are Heavies after all). Assaults just shouldn't be trading shots with each other but trying to out maneuver each other by bounding from cover to cover and maneuvering for advantage. Snipers should pop off a few shots then hoof it to another vantage point before some one finds them.
Cosgar ParagonX 5972	Posted - 2013.10.14 00:47:00 - [30] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Cosgar wrote: Just tested a pure shield tanking fit with a shield recharge delay of 2 seconds. I can't even live long enough to get to cover so my shields can pop. What a joke... Iv found shield tanking seems a bit too hit and run, do or die now. More like get hit and die. I can live with getting OHK by ScR, or melted by lasers, but damage mod and proficiency stacked ARs from outside of draw distance is sucking the fun out of this game.

Cosgar ParagonX 5972	Posted - 2013.10.14 00:56:00 - [31] - Quote Denn Maell wrote: I don't really mind the TTK as it is now. I don't really think it is the problem. I would like to see the game move more towards tactical-squad style FPS. If anything, I think that until recently we were too bullet spongy, shields were OP and Armor Tanking wasn't useful. I wouldn't mind seeing Heavies become a bit more bullet spongy (they are Heavies after all). Assaults just shouldn't be trading shots with each other but trying to out maneuver each other by bounding from cover to cover and maneuvering for advantage. Snipers should pop off a few shots then hoof it to another vantage point before some one finds them. You're confusing tactical with using tactics. Games like Rainbow Six, SOCOM, Ghost Recon, and Red Orchestra are tactical shooters, Dust was advertised and was meant to be a strafe FPS. Maps, weapons, and core mechanics don't support that kind of game play, but customization should be deep enough to allow people to run gank fittings if they want. People with stacked damage mods and ganked fits should be killing this fast.
jerrmy12 kahoalii Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 67	Posted - 2013.10.14 01:25:00 - [32] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Just tested a pure shield tanking fit with a shield recharge delay of 2 seconds. I can't even live long enough to get to cover so my shields can pop. What a joke... 500 shields?
Cosgar ParagonX 5973	Posted - 2013.10.14 01:27:00 - [33] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Cosgar wrote: Just tested a pure shield tanking fit with a shield recharge delay of 2 seconds. I can't even live long enough to get to cover so my shields can pop. What a joke... 500 shields? 403
jerrmy12 kahoalii Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 67	Posted - 2013.10.14 01:32:00 - [34] - Quote Cosgar wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Cosgar wrote: Just tested a pure shield tanking fit with a shield recharge delay of 2 seconds. I can't even live long enough to get to cover so my shields can pop. What a joke... 500 shields? 403 damm, caldari sucks at dropsuits too, im a caldari user :\
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 6558	Posted - 2013.10.14 01:57:00 - [35] - Quote 10% damage buff should be removed, +1
Cosgar ParagonX 5984	Posted - 2013.10.14 02:32:00 - [36] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Cosgar wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Cosgar wrote: Just tested a pure shield tanking fit with a shield recharge delay of 2 seconds. I can't even live long enough to get to cover so my shields can pop. What a joke... 500 shields? 403 damm, caldari sucks at dropsuits too, im a caldari user :\ Minmatar actually, but same difference. Used to be able to strafe some gunfire 1.2-1.3, but spoiled players complained about this important game mechanic and it's back to twitch gaming again. Half my corp already quit in 1.4 and I'm teetering on doing the same. It's just not fun, especially when you're running around in support fits that can run up to 250k.
Doshneil Antaro Dem Durrty Boyz Public Disorder. 126	Posted - 2013.10.14 07:27:00 - [37] - Quote TTK is to short as is. It is forcing this game I to cod overdrive, and taking away all of the skill of the individual. After I downloaded this game pretty chrome, I had no expectations, if anything they were low. I started at the bottom with little sp while others had amassed much. I quickly learned, my equipment was crazy, but I had to figure out to make my caveman tools work against my enemies Robocop gear. To be successful I needed to improve individual, squad, and team tactics. This made the game challenging. If I had started right now for the first time, I would not get to learn or even understand the game. TTK stomps out the learning curve, as you can not learn if you can't stay alive long enough to figure it out.
Cosgar ParagonX 5992	Posted - 2013.10.14 07:59:00 - [38] - Quote Just wanted to add that strafe speed should be uncapped and the "snare" mechanic should be exclusive to highly inaccurate weapons like the HMG and SMG. Speed tanking needs to be relevant again.
I-Shayz-I Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 1073	Posted - 2013.10.14 08:40:00 - [39] - Quote Yeah. It's what drew me into this game in the first place. Now it's like you need to have 1000 ehp in order to actually stay alive long enough to react. Back before uprising I was able to take quite a few hits with a minmatar speed shield logi. The more this game feels like CoD, the less I like playing it.
Cosgar ParagonX 6028	Posted - 2013.10.15 12:17:00 - [40] - Quote This would also stop the logi witch hunt since there wouldn't be such an emphasis on EHP.

calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 1094	Posted - 2013.10.15 13:04:00 - [41] - Quote it's funny their are points in dust now where I know i'm dead, and I just need to accept it. before 1.3 I used to think maybe I can juke till I get into cover, or maybe i can dodge long enough to reload and maybe i'll get lucky. in 1.4 though if you get ambushed after a 1 v 1 or get caught slightly in the open you are just done, straight up no chance. also I can often times AR someone peaking out of cover before they can get back in lol.
Cosgar ParagonX 6045	Posted - 2013.10.15 16:23:00 - [42] - Quote calisk galern wrote: it's funny their are points in dust now where I know i'm dead, and I just need to accept it. before 1.3 I used to think maybe I can juke till I get into cover, or maybe i can dodge long enough to reload and maybe i'll get lucky. in 1.4 though if you get ambushed after a 1 v 1 or get caught slightly in the open you are just done, straight up no chance. also I can often times AR someone peaking out of cover before they can get back in lol. No joke, I've been getting killed by ARs outside of my draw distance. Complete BS...
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2758	Posted - 2013.10.15 16:35:00 - [43] - Quote Perhaps it would help to view this more as an RPG in part. The character customization and scope of development REQUIRES us to be measured and thoughtful in how we approach building a character because it's such a long process (or at least it would...). If you think of a game like Borderlands, you're potentially spending a lot of time strafing and putting fire down on a single target. There are slower targets with more HP, and that would be vaguely equivalent to something like our armor/heavy tradeoff. I think Dust could probably stand to handle teamwork, tactics, and synergy a bit better than that title mind you (though the 2nd was a bit better with cross-team skills). The idea is that you're going to focus on communication, tactics, and strategy to make intelligent decisions in combat (and when preparing by making fittings). Use your head, not your wrists. Stack damage mods OR use an AR (or both) isn't indicative of depth (neither is get high ground->forge everything really, but it's a bit more involved). The short lifespan is the enemy of thought here, and it negates the rest of the game design. Some people may like run-n-gun solo-quick-kill gameplay, but that's not really where this should be. It's something they probably became accustomed to in certain games that had no sense of progression and were intended to be twitch. I might enjoy running around in some other game with hacks on that let me insta-kill too (for awhile anyway), but it's essentially exchanging a strategic element for... Fruit Ninja. It gets old quick either way. Some people might argue that there are in fact tactical/team considerations in Dust, but this doesn't invalidate complaints about TTK. Take the previous example: organized insta-kill modders in a game would be more effective than unorganized as well, no? The tactics used right now overly simplistic in part because of these sorts of balance issues.
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 594	Posted - 2013.10.15 16:54:00 - [44] - Quote Wow so many people in agreement about this but yet no DEV response ? Go figure.. Lots of good info and I gotta agree the biggest thing for myself like others have said, there used to be so many factors and builds you or a team could run in a match now its all about stacking health and praying someone doesn't sneak behind you because by the time you even think to turn around you're already dead...
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 764	Posted - 2013.10.15 17:29:00 - [45] - Quote Cosgar wrote: This would also stop the logi witch hunt since there wouldn't be such an emphasis on EHP. I'm running around being a medic using an SMG only, I have 801 armour and 241 shield, I need the HP.
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 764	Posted - 2013.10.15 17:32:00 - [46] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Cosgar wrote: This would also stop the logi witch hunt since there wouldn't be such an emphasis on EHP. I'm running around being a medic using an SMG only, I have 801 armour and 241 shield, I need the HP. Forgot to add- yet I die to mlt weapons in less than a second and a half, cannot shield people with my body when I pick them up anymore :(
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 85	Posted - 2013.10.15 18:35:00 - [47] - Quote I agree that TTK needs to be upped. While I think my TTK has gone up slightly in the last revision or two, it's tough for me to tell if it is my tactics or the game mechanics making the difference. Regardless, I think removing the 10% buff would be a start.
Yun Hee Ryeon Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 321	Posted - 2013.10.15 20:07:00 - [48] - Quote I really don't agree. Basic reason? If you get caught in the open at optimal range by a long burst of AR fire (or any other type of automatic weapon), it's my frank feeling that you should usually die horribly. Shields and armor are a supplement to cover, not a replacement for it, and proto should just increase your margin of error. (As an aside, I still do not run AR's. SMG's, yes; not AR.) Run and gun is a pretty retro mechanic, folks. I'd rather be finding some decent cover to murder you from than dancing around with sci-fi super soakers.
Severus Smith Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 384	Posted - 2013.10.15 20:10:00 - [49] - Quote I think the TTK could be toned back slightly. But more importantly, that the logistics repair tool gets changed to be something that actually lets them keep people alive while under fire (source). Want to stay alive while under a barrage of searing plasma fire? Bring a logi.
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 768	Posted - 2013.10.15 21:05:00 - [50] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Perhaps it would help to view this more as an RPG in part. The character customization and scope of development REQUIRES us to be measured and thoughtful in how we approach building a character because it's such a long process (or at least it would...). If you think of a game like Borderlands, you're potentially spending a lot of time strafing and putting fire down on a single target. There are slower targets with more HP, and that would be vaguely equivalent to something like our armor/heavy tradeoff. I think Dust could probably stand to handle teamwork, tactics, and synergy a bit better than that title mind you (though the 2nd was a bit better with cross-team skills). The idea is that you're going to focus on communication, tactics, and strategy to make intelligent decisions in combat (and when preparing by making fittings). Use your head, not your wrists. Stack damage mods OR use an AR (or both) isn't indicative of depth (neither is get high ground->forge everything really, but it's a bit more involved). The short lifespan is the enemy of thought here, and it negates the rest of the game design. Some people may like run-n-gun solo-quick-kill gameplay, but that's not really where this should be. It's something they probably became accustomed to in certain games that had no sense of progression and were intended to be twitch. I might enjoy running around in some other game with hacks on that let me insta-kill too (for awhile anyway), but it's essentially exchanging a strategic element for... Fruit Ninja. It gets old quick either way. Some people might argue that there are in fact tactical/team considerations in Dust, but this doesn't invalidate complaints about TTK. Take the previous example: organized insta-kill modders in a game would be more effective than unorganized as well, no? The tactics used right now are overly simplistic in part because of these sorts of balance issues. There's a 10% damage buff to all weapons from when they got rid of the weapon operation skill, I think that's what it was called, can't remember.

Cosgar ParagonX 6065	Posted - 2013.10.15 21:39:00 - [51] - Quote Yun Hee Ryeon wrote: I really don't agree. Basic reason? If you get caught in the open at optimal range by a long burst of AR fire (or any other type of automatic weapon), it's my frank feeling that you should usually die horribly. Shields and armor are a supplement to cover, not a replacement for it, and proto should just increase your margin of error. (As an aside, I still do not run AR's. SMG's, yes; not AR.) Run and gun is a pretty retro mechanic, folks. I'd rather be finding some decent cover to murder you from than dancing around with sci-fi super soakers. How many maps have cover again? If you want that kind of play style, character customization should allow that. Throw on some damage mods, max out your proficiency and wreck people in a glass cannon or armor tanked fitting. The way things are now, there's no point in making a fitting like that when you can do that with a starter fit. It's not about tank vs gank, but gank < all since 1.4.
Yun Hee Ryeon Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 321	Posted - 2013.10.15 21:53:00 - [52] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Yun Hee Ryeon wrote: I really don't agree. Basic reason? If you get caught in the open at optimal range by a long burst of AR fire (or any other type of automatic weapon), it's my frank feeling that you should usually die horribly. Shields and armor are a supplement to cover, not a replacement for it, and proto should just increase your margin of error. (As an aside, I still do not run AR's. SMG's, yes; not AR.) Run and gun is a pretty retro mechanic, folks. I'd rather be finding some decent cover to murder you from than dancing around with sci-fi super soakers. How many maps have cover again? All of them. No, really. There's just a lot of open ground to get yourself cut to ribbons on, which most people aren't as wary of as they should be. Take it from a scout: there's plenty of cover. I couldn't survive without it. Quote: If you want that kind of play style, character customization should allow that. Throw on some damage mods, max out your proficiency and wreck people in a glass cannon or armor tanked fitting. The way things are now, there's no point in making a fitting like that when you can do that with a starter fit. It's not about tank vs gank, but gank < all since 1.4. If gank were actually that strong, we'd be seeing fewer heavies. If anything, we're seeing more, including whole teams that seem to run nothing but.
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Public Disorder. 440	Posted - 2013.10.16 01:19:00 - [53] - Quote The change won't hurt the AR because it's still doing insane DPS with AA. Next to nothing will change except you maybe taking an extra bullet for a Duvolve with 2 damage mods. The change will hurt Lasers, MDs, and Snipers way more.
Cosgar ParagonX 6086	Posted - 2013.10.16 01:21:00 - [54] - Quote Justin Tymes wrote: The change won't hurt the AR because it's still doing insane DPS with AA. Next to nothing will change except you maybe taking an extra bullet for a Duvolve with 2 damage mods. The change will hurt Lasers, MDs, and Snipers way more. If that's true, the AR would really need a nerf then.
Cosgar ParagonX 6086	Posted - 2013.10.16 01:25:00 - [55] - Quote Yun Hee Ryeon wrote: Cosgar wrote: Yun Hee Ryeon wrote: I really don't agree. Basic reason? If you get caught in the open at optimal range by a long burst of AR fire (or any other type of automatic weapon), it's my frank feeling that you should usually die horribly. Shields and armor are a supplement to cover, not a replacement for it, and proto should just increase your margin of error. (As an aside, I still do not run AR's. SMG's, yes; not AR.) Run and gun is a pretty retro mechanic, folks. I'd rather be finding some decent cover to murder you from than dancing around with sci-fi super soakers. How many maps have cover again? All of them. No, really. There's just a lot of open ground to get yourself cut to ribbons on, which most people aren't as wary of as they should be. Take it from a scout: there's plenty of cover. I couldn't survive without it. Quote: If you want that kind of play style, character customization should allow that. Throw on some damage mods, max out your proficiency and wreck people in a glass cannon or armor tanked fitting. The way things are now, there's no point in making a fitting like that when you can do that with a starter fit. It's not about tank vs gank, but gank < all since 1.4. If gank were actually that strong, we'd be seeing fewer heavies. If anything, we're seeing more, including whole teams that seem to run nothing but. Are we playing the same game? If I do see heavies, or even scouts, they're usually using ARs and SCRs nowadays since 1.4 completely killed any form of diversity. I'm glad you can still get it done, but what about newer players that dare to try scout and heavy? You think they'll stick with it in the current state things are in?
Denn Maell PIanet Express 9	Posted - 2013.10.16 04:26:00 - [56] - Quote There really is alot of cover to take advantage of in every map I've played. But perhaps 'seek cover or die' should be better communicated to new players. I have several times dropped three heavies in a row due to ducking behind a slight rise in the ground, or a minor looking foot bridge they couldn't duck behind . One thing I have noticed is the head shot: Shields seem to prevent it, yet get through shields and a well placed bullet between the eyes (or hip fire an SMG and one bullet will go into the head) and even the heaviest of players fold up. Its honestly a little ridiculous the number of times I walked away from certain death.
Yun Hee Ryeon Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 324	Posted - 2013.10.16 07:50:00 - [57] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Are we playing the same game? If I do see heavies, or even scouts, they're usually using ARs and SCRs nowadays since 1.4 completely killed any form of diversity. I'm glad you can still get it done, but what about newer players that dare to try scout and heavy? You think they'll stick with it in the current state things are in? I start to think maybe we're not. The heavies I encounter are usually using HMG's-- which, by the way, are highly underrated as a threat. AR's have a delay problem, you see: they virtually always aim first, then fire. Even if they have the accuracy, they don't have the ammo capacity to come around the corner already spraying. They line up, then fire. When I see an AR lining up a shot, I don't wait for the first plasma bolt to land. I dive for cover. HMG's consistently come around the corner pouring shrapnel. If the HMG gets to that same position, it's too late: I'm already dead. AR heavies are a bit more common than they should be, I agree. However, the HMG and forge gun are still the standard weapons for heavies. A heavy with an AR can't tear me apart just by swinging around-- the weapon's precise. Too precise. An HMG is functionally an area effect attack, and vastly more trouble to avoid. I'll believe the heavy is underpowered when people stop panicking when they see a group of them, or screaming, "Heavy on alpha!" when there's a fat suit on the scene mincing blue dots. That, by itself, is what will attract the nubbins-- that enviable sense of power. As for scouts, I occasionally run into a scout using an AR. I used to do that, too, until I realized how easy it was to end up merely wounding your mark and then dying horribly because you blew your cover-- you can't hide effectively and use an AR. I rarely see scramblers on scouts; they're a pain in the neck to fit. I've lately been seeing more laser rifles, which is just bizarre. The scout is best served by weapons that kill fast and reliably from ambush. The people who take on the role are probably going to be mostly the ones who like the play style, which (though I occasionally forget this, to the detriment of my K/Dr and overall performance), is the farthest thing from an assault suit. We're weakest when exposed, strongest when striking with impunity, which is why the sizzle of a nova knife is far more musical to my ear than the rattle of an AR. If I'm running a scout (which I do everywhere but mid to late game on Manus Peak), I'm not out to get in a fight of any sort. I'm there to murder your face off. The scout role will always attract those who prefer that play style.
Lazy Scumbag The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 53	Posted - 2013.10.16 12:59:00 - [58] - Quote I feel your pain. The armor buff and hit detection were dropped at the same time, so it did me no good. I can top the leaderboard in a match and still lose ISK using only advanced fits (with 5 or so deaths) Maybe the low player population is part of a labor dispute, since match rewards are heavily passive. ( sp per second, ISK distribution ) Oh, and before my tears dry up I should mention that my Gallente assault needs love in the PG/ Cpu department (no experience with other races )
Lazy Scumbag The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 53	Posted - 2013.10.16 13:01:00 - [59] - Quote Cosgar wrote: calisk galern wrote: it's funny their are points in dust now where I know i'm dead, and I just need to accept it. before 1.3 I used to think maybe I can juke till I get into cover, or maybe i can dodge long enough to reload and maybe i'll get lucky. in 1.4 though if you get ambushed after a 1 v 1 or get caught slightly in the open you are just done, straight up no chance. also I can often times AR someone peaking out of cover before they can get back in lol. No joke, I've been getting killed by ARs outside of my draw distance. Complete BS... Still far better than Planetside 2. That game for me is a series of insta-deaths.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2783	Posted - 2013.10.17 15:58:00 - [60] - Quote I don't think it's a matter of Heavies losing any value in the game (Forge guns are still very useful), or HMGs being worthless (like anything with a high RoF currently, they kill quickly). It's that Heavies, much like in other suit, can get dropped in seconds. The HP-difference isn't making much of a difference. Though you do see Heavies toting ARs because of their strength in the current framework, and because the suits with the most hp are bound to give you slightly more seconds. This doesn't really change the fact that you can drop a heavy ridiculously fast with MLT AR and no skills (like, faster than it would be to kill someone in Halo or another game where you can't customize armor/shields for example.

Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2796	Posted - 2013.10.18 17:26:00 - [61] - Quote Needed a bump...
Doshneil Antaro Dem Durrty Boyz Public Disorder. 131	Posted - 2013.10.18 19:35:00 - [62] - Quote Remov the 10% damage buff, make damage mods only one fitted per suit only, adjust aim assist to be more loose, and grenades supply Depot only restock. These changes would greatly improve TTK, but would leave armor suits at a disadvantage due to few mods that can actually be placed in the high slot that at are not shield related. To fix this issue, biotic should be able to be placed in either, but if you put one in a high slot, they should lock into high only. You shouldn't be able to have them in both at the same time. To move them to a low slot, unequivocally them from the high first, then stack away in the low. PG and CPU should work the same, or one is always high, one is always low would be acceptable. Dampener, precision enhancers, and range amplification should be in the same slots as the cpu upgrades, and code breakers the same as pg upgrades. These changes would not only improve TTK to an appropriate level, but also balance out the different mod usage, balance out shield vs armor, and reduce people's reliance of grenades doing all the work with no downside.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2798	Posted - 2013.10.19 05:30:00 - [63] - Quote BIotics in either, huh? Interesting.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 777	Posted - 2013.10.20 00:32:00 - [64] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: . . Aside from the fact that his aim was all over the place and he was barely hitting him, it's even quicker to kill people in Dust, a game where you can fit armor/shield modules and be customized after MONTHS of play. The fact you can drop people super-quick now isn't a newsflash; it's been all over the forums since 1.4 dropped. . . If after spending big time playing the game the difference between health would be also big, then this would be a bad game. One of the best things in Dust is that if you are using even a militia AR skillfully you can still kill veterans.
Cosgar ParagonX 6194	Posted - 2013.10.20 00:34:00 - [65] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: . . Aside from the fact that his aim was all over the place and he was barely hitting him, it's even quicker to kill people in Dust, a game where you can fit armor/shield modules and be customized after MONTHS of play. The fact you can drop people super-quick now isn't a newsflash; it's been all over the forums since 1.4 dropped. . . If after spending big time playing the game the difference between health would be also big, then this would be a bad game. One of the best things in Dust is that if you are using even a militia AR skillfully you can still kill veterans. You're confusing core gameplay with balancing.
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1504	Posted - 2013.10.20 00:36:00 - [66] - Quote Signed
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 777	Posted - 2013.10.20 05:45:00 - [67] - Quote Cosgar wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: If after spending big time playing the game the difference between health would be also big, then this would be a bad game. One of the best things in Dust is that if you are using even a militia AR skillfully you can still kill veterans. You're confusing core gameplay with balancing. Even though I agree that 1.4 did decrease TTK by unnecessary amount, my point stands. The OP: Zeylon Rho wrote: . . You would think the fact that character advancement allows you to customize your suit would be a large factor, no? . . Aside from the fact that his aim was all over the place and he was barely hitting him, it's even quicker to kill people in Dust, a game where you can fit armor/shield modules and be customized after MONTHS of play. . . In addition on very spot on critique on 1.4 AA and hit detection, the OP clearly advocates for big playing history = big advantage. I still disagree on that.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2804	Posted - 2013.10.20 22:35:00 - [68] - Quote I'd focus more on the fact that fitting protective modules is an option in this game, and the options are largely irrelevant in the current state of affairs. As mentioned, heavies might be able to eek out a few more seconds, but they ultimately fall quickly like most players. I'm arguing that everyone should be alive longer. What degree of impact do you think something like a "Basic Shield Extender" (or MLT) has in the current game? Do you think those 22 hp make in any marked difference in how long someone stays alive? Do 33 hp? In either case, the hp from the module get wiped in in 1 AR "round", or which many many will fly in a single second. If you're concerned about new players, the extend to which a new player can choose to mitigate damage in a MLT/STD suit might be limited to two slots. So, a "new" player opting for survival-type "fittings" in an Amarr MLT suit would be able to sport TWO of those 22 hp non-factors (an Amarr MLT suit only has two high slots, no lows). So, as long as we have the damage situation as-is, new players are just as, if not more, screwed when outfitting their characters. That or we just say that modules of a certain type are just worthless. I don't think vets should be unkillable; a damage nerf across the board could give new players more time to evade death and make mistakes as well. As far as playing history making for an advantage, in a RPG where you can develop stats, skills, and assets - if history doesn't make a difference then we should all go back to playing Doom or some such. There's no point in persistence or RPG elements if they're cosmetic non-factors.
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 805	Posted - 2013.10.21 00:04:00 - [69] - Quote Bump.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2809	Posted - 2013.10.21 17:16:00 - [70] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Bump. Thanks. Still an issue. I'm looking at not bothering capping out this week for the first time since April. I'm lacking faith that the blink-and-die timing will get changed, ever, with the lack of any real dev attention compared to their knee-jerk addition of the 10% dmg buff in less than a week.

Dehlia Metii not in a corporation 64	Posted - 2013.10.22 01:20:00 - [71] - Quote This is the sort of issue I think of when people refer to "core gameplay". If people die so quickly your fittings/weapons don't matter, then you invalidate the rest of the game design. Weapons and suits become like M&M colors; meaningless with respect to flavor with slightly different appearances.
Cosgar ParagonX 6340	Posted - 2013.10.22 19:19:00 - [72] - Quote Dehlia Metii wrote: This is the sort of issue I think of when people refer to "core gameplay". If people die so quickly your fittings/weapons don't matter, then you invalidate the rest of the game design. Weapons and suits become like M&M colors; meaningless with respect to flavor with slightly different appearances. That's exactly what it is, core gameplay. Aside from when I'm squading with people in my corp, I've just been running BPO fits and militia equipment on my logi suit. Fast deaths isn't good for logistics when you die before you can even drop a triage hive.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2825	Posted - 2013.10.23 09:28:00 - [73] - Quote This was in fact the first week I didn't cap since April. I think I'm going to give it a rest till you fix this. If I wanted to play a game with short TTK, no stats, twitch-style - I can find better. Though frankly I don't want to play that all. Maybe you'll make the leveling and equipment actually matter. It's utterly pointless as-is. For the longest time I saved up my SP for all the content that was "soon" after you gave "the last respec" back in May. I waited and waited... and NOTHING. So, I spent my SP. I was able to rationalize dying quickly despite fitting shield extenders, armor plates, etc. because I'd ran free fits for most of that time, and it makes sense that I'd die easily in a MLT suit, right? So, I got proto suits, shields, armor, weapons, fittings, etc. It didn't really make a difference. You still live a shorter life than someone playing a match of Halo or another game like that. Everyone dies like a grunt in a 90s shooter. The RPG elements are window-dressing that doesn't matter for now, and nothing we do matters in any way, ever. It's a persistent world we have no stake in. The proposed FW rewards are just fitting bonuses basically (at best), and that isn't interesting at all (we had those before, and they weren't that exciting then either). This whole game has been a slog since 1.4, that's enough of that. I hope you fix it at some point and move away from twitch shooter territory, because you're not going to beat Halo/CoD by being crappyHalo or crappyCoD.
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 850	Posted - 2013.10.23 09:32:00 - [74] - Quote Bump
Vell0cet Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 436	Posted - 2013.10.23 15:36:00 - [75] - Quote I want to see the removal of the 10% weapon buff too. We should re-evaluate after that. Fittings should play more of a role, and they don't right now.
Cosgar ParagonX 6364	Posted - 2013.10.23 15:44:00 - [76] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: I want to see the removal of the 10% weapon buff too. We should re-evaluate after that. Fittings should play more of a role, and they don't right now. Exactly. Start with the damage buff and other little hot fixes made between 1.0-1.4 and re-evaluate from there. Huge sweeping changes are what got us in this mess.
KA24DERT Pure Innocence. EoN. 174	Posted - 2013.10.23 17:15:00 - [77] - Quote Removing auto-aim and dropping AR/SR damage by 10% is a good place to start. I think most other anti personnel weapons have fallen into a decent balance and there's no need to nerf them.
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1272	Posted - 2013.10.23 17:41:00 - [78] - Quote This really needs to be addressed soon. The week before 1.4 deployed I did a purge of inactives from Subdreddit, which left us with 382 members who had logged in at least once during the previous month. After 1.4, people stopped logging in. Some people thought it was the Scotty errors that first few days that did it, but the numbers kept falling off a cliff long after those problems were fixed. From what I've heard in our IRC, people are frustrated as hell with the blink and you're dead mechanics. Especially the scouts. A large number of these people are ones who played through the darkest days of closed beta. They find the gameplay less interesting than when we only had a handful of weapons and no racial gear. I looked at our membership last login date, and about half of our members have not logged in at all during the last month. Of the rest, only a quarter have logged in during the last week. Dust is supposed to be a thinking shooter, and for a while it was. Now it's an entirely random battlefield where the only gear that matters is your weapon. We've been running FW battles since TEST joined the Caldari militia a week ago, and getting people to give Dust another chance has been like pulling teeth from a rooster. The longer this goes on the longer it will take to convince these people to come back, and we can't be the only corp facing this problem.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2831	Posted - 2013.10.23 23:53:00 - [79] - Quote This is the sort of thing that needed a hotfix shortly after 1.4 launched.
Cosgar ParagonX 6383	Posted - 2013.10.24 05:38:00 - [80] - Quote Had a friend jump on tonight after an extended break. His first reaction was "Why the hell do I have 20,000,000 SP into heavies and do just as good in starter fits?!" He called it CoD 514 and promptly uninstalled.

Borne Velvalor Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 800	Posted - 2013.10.24 06:18:00 - [81] - Quote PRO fittings compared to starter fits can substantially increase your life span. 60% more health and 30% more damage is a large advantage. This would actually be relevant if the average Duvolle user with mods didn't go from cutting you down in 1 second to 1.5 seconds before you can get a shot off to capitalize on the increased damage.
Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 429	Posted - 2013.10.24 13:13:00 - [82] - Quote If the 10% buff to weapon were to be removed it should be removed across the board, no favoritism. I'm tired of being taken down within 1.5 seconds of concentrated fire (not spray and pray although that sucks worse).
KA24DERT Pure Innocence. EoN. 176	Posted - 2013.10.24 16:35:00 - [83] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: If the 10% buff to weapon were to be removed it should be removed across the board, no favoritism. I'm tired of being taken down within 1.5 seconds of concentrated fire (not spray and pray although that sucks worse). Spray and Prayer's prayers have been answered, it's called auto aim, and the amount of praying needed to land a shot now is very, very low. I wish people would realize how much AA has affected the TTK in this game, but it's like asking people to un-bribe themselves.
Cosgar ParagonX 6418	Posted - 2013.10.24 18:07:00 - [84] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Draco Cerberus wrote: If the 10% buff to weapon were to be removed it should be removed across the board, no favoritism. I'm tired of being taken down within 1.5 seconds of concentrated fire (not spray and pray although that sucks worse). Spray and Prayer's prayers have been answered, it's called auto aim, and the amount of praying needed to land a shot now is very, very low. I wish people would realize how much AA has affected the TTK in this game, but it's like asking people to un-bribe themselves. With the core mechanics taking such a casual turn, Dust 514 might as well be turn based.
Vell0cet Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 437	Posted - 2013.10.24 19:25:00 - [85] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: If the 10% buff to weapon were to be removed it should be removed across the board, no favoritism. I'm tired of being taken down within 1.5 seconds of concentrated fire (not spray and pray although that sucks worse). I agree, it should be across the board, although some weapons may need to be buffed back after re-evaluating.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2837	Posted - 2013.10.24 19:47:00 - [86] - Quote I'd be more concerned about 10% being "enough" rather than too much. The state of affairs with AA and hit-detection as-is might be a bit too much for the 10% damage revert to fix. 10% is a reasonable start though. Let's not forget, people will immediately ***** about people taking longer to kill than: before, than in CoD, than it takes before they get killed. That won't necessarily mean the game is balanced or fixed, it's just what you'd expect if they altered damage by some factor. If TTK goes from 1-3 seconds to 2-5 seconds, then I'm not sure if we can necessarily say things are fixed - just marginally better. The idea is to work ourselves towards something that functions well. The longer you stay in the current system, the more that people that still play get acclimated to the idea that people in Dust should die quickly like some other shooter. People will continue to work towards earning skills that don't really make a difference in the same way that people might work towards Farmville goals. There's a psychological appeal there. The idea is to give the game actual depth before all the players that are left are people that just want some low-rate version of space CoD. More MMO-RPG-FPS, less lobby shooter.
KA24DERT Pure Innocence. EoN. 177	Posted - 2013.10.24 20:36:00 - [87] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: Draco Cerberus wrote: If the 10% buff to weapon were to be removed it should be removed across the board, no favoritism. I'm tired of being taken down within 1.5 seconds of concentrated fire (not spray and pray although that sucks worse). I agree, it should be across the board, although some weapons may need to be buffed back after re-evaluating. There's some weapons that already have a huge TTK that don't need to be nerfed. If the Mass Driver took a 10% damage hit you would have to reload before being able to drop a heavy or a high hp assault. Really the biggest problem on the field right now is ARs and Scramblers combined with Auto Aim. That combination is the elephant in the room. It's a serious problem when an AR user can drop me in the time it takes my projectile to travel to them.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 441	Posted - 2013.10.25 00:11:00 - [88] - Quote I don't have the solution but I do agree that the TTK is too short. When a logibro like me is getting this many kills with militia weaponry... i just cant be this good. - dont get me wrong I was happy with the distances in Chrome but with that taken out I have to get in the battle more than I like, and I can hold my own - well remain positive most of the time. But if there were greater efficacy in tanking I would appreciate it.
Cosgar ParagonX 6437	Posted - 2013.10.25 03:41:00 - [89] - Quote Since I still have a healthy supply of shield regulators, energizers, and rechargers left over, I tried out some more suit fittings in an attempt to get my recharge delay/rate to competitive levels. I'll spare you painful experience word for word and just say that if we're going to have these short lifespans, the above modules are going to need a significant buff. Armor repair as well.
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC Intara Direct Action Caldari State 90	Posted - 2013.10.25 04:22:00 - [90] - Quote Xaviah Reaper wrote: I think all except HMG should lose the 10% buff. those guys need a break. getting out gunned vs a basic AR when you have full hp and an mh82 point blank, isn't logical Thats funny cause I seen machete lopez in a logi lav rocking the hmg and he never died, killed about 20 people, guess he was just lucky.....

Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2842	Posted - 2013.10.25 09:23:00 - [91] - Quote It seems like the new AR stats give it slightly increased range? With damage kept constant, this won't get any better. Maybe CCP staff prefer playing the game as a twitch shooter with everybody basically equal too.
Cosgar ParagonX 6463	Posted - 2013.10.25 09:31:00 - [92] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: It seems like the new AR stats give it slightly increased range? With damage kept constant, this won't get any better. Maybe CCP staff prefer playing the game as a twitch shooter with everybody basically equal too. Gets inspired by Halo to make a strafing FPS using the same principals of originality that established your previous title, sell out to compete with every other FPS on the market. Seems legit.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 184	Posted - 2013.10.26 19:24:00 - [93] - Quote It's nice to see this thread get lots of dev attention.
Alldin Kan MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 731	Posted - 2013.10.26 21:42:00 - [94] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: This became a huge thing when 1.4 launched, and it's killed a lot of the satisfaction in the game for a significant chunk of the player-base. The assumption when 1.4 launched is that was all because of aim-assist (remember all those threads), yet there was also a matter where hit-detection of various weapons had improved in tandem, and other issues as well. This was something you (CCP) said you'd be watching. I hope you've seen by now how laughably short someone's life is under the gun of even MLT-grade quality. What do you think makes Dust unique in comparison to something like Halo or Quake? You would think the fact that character advancement allows you to customize your suit would be a large factor, no? Take a look at this Halo video. From the point at which the video starts, you can see it takes him a couple direct volleys with his rifle to drop/kill his opponent. It's about 6 seconds or so, and his aim is pretty good. Halo is a deathmatch sort of game where your suits are not custom and the battles are meant to be frantic and short. Compare that to Dust 514 in 1.4. (this is from CEOPyrex's video) Aside from the fact that his aim was all over the place and he was barely hitting him, it's even quicker to kill people in Dust, a game where you can fit armor/shield modules and be customized after MONTHS of play. The fact you can drop people super-quick now isn't a newsflash; it's been all over the forums since 1.4 dropped. I've heard a few suggestions for fixes, but perhaps removing the 10% across the board damage increase you gave with all the hit-detection issues at launch would be a good start. Please fix this. Fittings, skills, etc. are supposed to matter. Right now you've rendered 90% of skills pointless as a Frontline Starter with a MLT rifle and Zero SP invested can drop just about anyone faster than those guys in Halo, etc. If you want your game to be something different, then realize shooting for faster/more-death-laden gameplay than a Halo, etc. game is not the direction you want to be heading. No.
Niuvo The Phoenix Federation The Ascendancy 666	Posted - 2013.10.26 23:48:00 - [95] - Quote The life of a scout is over in .8 second. That's me using "scout mods" to "avoid" detection.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2852	Posted - 2013.10.27 01:14:00 - [96] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: This became a huge thing when 1.4 launched, and it's killed a lot of the satisfaction in the game for a significant chunk of the player-base. The assumption when 1.4 launched is that was all because of aim-assist (remember all those threads), yet there was also a matter where hit-detection of various weapons had improved in tandem, and other issues as well. This was something you (CCP) said you'd be watching. I hope you've seen by now how laughably short someone's life is under the gun of even MLT-grade quality. What do you think makes Dust unique in comparison to something like Halo or Quake? You would think the fact that character advancement allows you to customize your suit would be a large factor, no? Take a look at this Halo video. From the point at which the video starts, you can see it takes him a couple direct volleys with his rifle to drop/kill his opponent. It's about 6 seconds or so, and his aim is pretty good. Halo is a deathmatch sort of game where your suits are not custom and the battles are meant to be frantic and short. Compare that to Dust 514 in 1.4. (this is from CEOPyrex's video) Aside from the fact that his aim was all over the place and he was barely hitting him, it's even quicker to kill people in Dust, a game where you can fit armor/shield modules and be customized after MONTHS of play. The fact you can drop people super-quick now isn't a newsflash; it's been all over the forums since 1.4 dropped. I've heard a few suggestions for fixes, but perhaps removing the 10% across the board damage increase you gave with all the hit-detection issues at launch would be a good start. Please fix this. Fittings, skills, etc. are supposed to matter. Right now you've rendered 90% of skills pointless as a Frontline Starter with a MLT rifle and Zero SP invested can drop just about anyone faster than those guys in Halo, etc. If you want your game to be something different, then realize shooting for faster/more-death-laden gameplay than a Halo, etc. game is not the direction you want to be heading. No. I admire your well-reasoned response and support for CoD. It's a shame you're posting in the wrong forum for that.
Cosgar ParagonX 6645	Posted - 2013.10.27 05:39:00 - [97] - Quote Did some more testing with shield rechargers, regulators, and armor reppers. If they just don't outright fix the TTK, reducing the shield recharge delay by 2 seconds on every dropsuit, adding an extra 10 HP/s regen on their base shields and buffing armor repair modules to 4/6/10 HP/s across the tiers might go a long way. I'd do some testing on reppers and triage hives, but really, what's easier to fix?
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 810	Posted - 2013.10.27 05:44:00 - [98] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Did some more testing with shield rechargers, regulators, and armor reppers. If they just don't outright fix the TTK, reducing the shield recharge delay by 2 seconds on every dropsuit, adding an extra 10 HP/s regen on their base shields and buffing armor repair modules to 4/6/10 HP/s across the tiers might go a long way. I'd do some testing on reppers and triage hives, but really, what's easier to fix? The problem is that, yes, it would help to buff those things, but that's CoD balancing. High damage, high health regen is a recipe for a twitch fest.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles 216	Posted - 2013.10.27 05:56:00 - [99] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: This became a huge thing when 1.4 launched, and it's killed a lot of the satisfaction in the game for a significant chunk of the player-base. The assumption when 1.4 launched is that is was all because of aim-assist (remember all those threads), yet there was also a matter where hit-detection of various weapons had improved in tandem. This was something you (CCP) said you'd be watching. I hope you've seen by now how laughably short someone's life is under the gun of even a MLT-grade quality. What do you think makes Dust unique in comparison to something like Halo or Quake? You would think the fact that character advancement allows you to customize your suit would be a large factor, no? Take a look at this Halo video. From the point at which the video starts, you can see it takes him a couple direct volleys with his rifle to drop/kill his opponent. It's about 6 seconds or so, and his aim is pretty good. Halo is a deathmatch sort of game where your suits are not custom and the battles are meant to be frantic and short. Compare that to Dust 514 in 1.4. (this is from CEOPyrex's video) Aside from the fact that his aim was all over the place and he was barely hitting him, it's even quicker to kill people in Dust, a game where you can fit armor/shield modules and be customized after MONTHS of play. The fact you can drop people super-quick now isn't a newsflash; it's been all over the forums since 1.4 dropped. I've heard a few suggestions for fixes, but perhaps removing the 10% across the board damage increase you gave with all the hit-detection issues at launch would be a good start. Please fix this. Fittings, skills, etc. are supposed to matter. Right now you've rendered 90% of skills pointless as a Frontline Starter with a MLT rifle and Zero SP invested can drop just about anyone faster than those guys in Halo, etc. If you want your game to be something different, then realize shooting for faster/more-death-laden gameplay than a Halo, etc. game is not the direction you want to be heading. Agreed, I can barely shield people while I revive them anymore, remove 10% buff. there was no magical 10% buff? please people learn history... it will set you free in almost anything in life. 10% damage was introduced after they removed weaponry bonus's of 2% damage per level. And made it a skill sink skill where lvl 2 and 4 do absolutely nothing. but **** people off being the first skill you have to get and it already being a skill point sink. no magical 10% damage showed up to anything. And hit detection is worse then it has ever been.... TTK in beta was no different... you died just as fast... we still loved it... But when you did die it was to a predictable shot or something that took more then 1 shot(thales/charge excluded) Now you get one shot naded by a militia grenade... let alone a core locus... the grenade 1 shot kill spam's is hilarious... Forge gun 1 shot kill deaths everywhere... Mass drivers 1-2 shotting every low health point suit with almost impossible to miss splash radius's... CCP has installed Aim-bot and these one shot kill weapons to compress skill gap's in the game... It has to do with eliminating a players ability to play a perfect game with skill... Allowing a random element to always one shot kill you... no matter how good the positioning or ability is. CCP made these choices and personally its why a majority of people i know will never touch this game again. Catering to casual's in that sort of way is unforgivable for most... and it's truely sad.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2855	Posted - 2013.10.27 06:31:00 - [100] - Quote Bethhy wrote: there was no magical 10% buff? please people learn history... it will set you free in almost anything in life. ... no magical 10% damage showed up to anything. And hit detection is worse then it has ever been.... No one is suggesting anything "magical" happened. I cite the exact dev posts referencing the buff here. History is great, but you need to work on finishing a page before you teach it.

TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 1026	Posted - 2013.10.27 11:22:00 - [101] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Bethhy wrote: there was no magical 10% buff? please people learn history... it will set you free in almost anything in life. ... no magical 10% damage showed up to anything. And hit detection is worse then it has ever been.... No one is suggesting anything "magical" happened. I cite the exact dev posts referencing the buff here. History is great, but you need to work on finishing a page before you teach it. Thank you.
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 1026	Posted - 2013.10.27 11:28:00 - [102] - Quote Bethhy wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: This became a huge thing when 1.4 launched, and it's killed a lot of the satisfaction in the game for a significant chunk of the player-base. The assumption when 1.4 launched is that is was all because of aim-assist (remember all those threads), yet there was also a matter where hit-detection of various weapons had improved in tandem. This was something you (CCP) said you'd be watching. I hope you've seen by now how laughably short someone's life is under the gun of even a MLT-grade quality. What do you think makes Dust unique in comparison to something like Halo or Quake? You would think the fact that character advancement allows you to customize your suit would be a large factor, no? Take a look at this Halo video. From the point at which the video starts, you can see it takes him a couple direct volleys with his rifle to drop/kill his opponent. It's about 6 seconds or so, and his aim is pretty good. Halo is a deathmatch sort of game where your suits are not custom and the battles are meant to be frantic and short. Compare that to Dust 514 in 1.4. (this is from CEOPyrex's video) Aside from the fact that his aim was all over the place and he was barely hitting him, it's even quicker to kill people in Dust, a game where you can fit armor/shield modules and be customized after MONTHS of play. The fact you can drop people super-quick now isn't a newsflash; it's been all over the forums since 1.4 dropped. I've heard a few suggestions for fixes, but perhaps removing the 10% across the board damage increase you gave with all the hit-detection issues at launch would be a good start. Please fix this. Fittings, skills, etc. are supposed to matter. Right now you've rendered 90% of skills pointless as a Frontline Starter with a MLT rifle and Zero SP invested can drop just about anyone faster than those guys in Halo, etc. If you want your game to be something different, then realize shooting for faster/more-death-laden gameplay than a Halo, etc. game is not the direction you want to be heading. Agreed, I can barely shield people while I revive them anymore, remove 10% buff. there was no magical 10% buff? please people learn history... it will set you free in almost anything in life. 10% damage was introduced after they removed the weaponry skill bonus of 2% damage per level. And made it a skill sink skill where lvl 2 and 4 do absolutely nothing. but **** people off being the first skill you have to get and it already being a skill point sink. no magical 10% damage showed up to anything. And hit detection is worse then it has ever been.... TTK in beta was no different... you died just as fast... we still loved it... But when you did die it was to a predictable shot or something that took more then 1 shot(thales/charge excluded) Now you get one shot naded by a militia grenade... let alone a core locus... the grenade 1 shot kill spam's is hilarious... Forge gun 1 shot kill deaths everywhere... Mass drivers 1-2 shotting every low health point suit with almost impossible to miss splash radius's... CCP has installed Aim-bot and these one shot kill weapons to compress skill gap's in the game... It has to do with eliminating a players ability to play a perfect game with skill... Allowing a random element to always one shot kill you... no matter how good the positioning or ability is. CCP made these choices and personally its why a majority of people i know will never touch this game again. Catering to casual's in that sort of way is unforgivable for most... and it's truely sad. Agreed no magical buff, just a buff across their board of 10% as announced by devs a fair while back. Congratulations well done.
Beeeees KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 307	Posted - 2013.10.27 15:11:00 - [103] - Quote The problem right now is that more EHP does not improve your survivability past ADV level enemies, as certain guns (Duvolle namely) + stacked damage mods negate range fall off, and no amount of armor and shields strapped on will save you. What The French-¦s glass cannon death squads demonstrate that in all their glory. No amount of EHP is going to save you from stacked damage mods combined with insane DPS.
Kazeno Rannaa BIG BAD W0LVES 296	Posted - 2013.10.27 18:33:00 - [104] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: This became a huge thing when 1.4 launched, and it's killed a lot of the satisfaction in the game for a significant chunk of the player-base. The assumption when 1.4 launched is that was all because of aim-assist (remember all those threads), yet there was also a matter where hit-detection of various weapons had improved in tandem, and other issues as well. This was something you (CCP) said you'd be watching. I hope you've seen by now how laughably short someone's life is under the gun of even MLT-grade quality. What do you think makes Dust unique in comparison to something like Halo or Quake? You would think the fact that character advancement allows you to customize your suit would be a large factor, no? Take a look at this Halo video. From the point at which the video starts, you can see it takes him a couple direct volleys with his rifle to drop/kill his opponent. It's about 6 seconds or so, and his aim is pretty good. Halo is a deathmatch sort of game where your suits are not custom and the battles are meant to be frantic and short. Compare that to Dust 514 in 1.4. (this is from CEOPyrex's video) Aside from the fact that his aim was all over the place and he was barely hitting him, it's even quicker to kill people in Dust, a game where you can fit armor/shield modules and be customized after MONTHS of play. The fact you can drop people super-quick now isn't a newsflash; it's been all over the forums since 1.4 dropped. I've heard a few suggestions for fixes, but perhaps removing the 10% across the board damage increase you gave with all the hit-detection issues at launch would be a good start. Please fix this. Fittings, skills, etc. are supposed to matter. Right now you've rendered 90% of skills pointless as a Frontline Starter with a MLT rifle and Zero SP invested can drop just about anyone faster than those guys in Halo, etc. If you want your game to be something different, then realize shooting for faster/more-death-laden gameplay than a Halo, etc. game is not the direction you want to be heading. Upon seeing these, and having the most recent experiences where I have seen little observable difference between a Militia grad AR and that of a Duvolle in TTK, I would be OK with the removal of the 10% buff ALL of the weapons got, not just the AR. But that is IF that is the case rather than issues of pack prioritization and correlation on the server side of the coin when dealing with two completely different pings from players and client side. The thing is I have seen it on both sides. I have taken people down laughably fast with my Exile (protoGÇÖs to be included) then I have had times where my Exile could scratch them after 40 round dumped into an opponent at 5-10 meters. Those same people melted me in a matter of 4-5 rounds with a number of weapons (i.e., Militia, Standard, Advanced or Proto ARs, SMGs, MD, Scram Pistols). Now granted I havenGÇÖt added in the possibility of head shots (it is kind of heard to tell if I am being shot in the chest or in the head, but observable flight paths of the round leads me to believe that most were to the body, main body mass). So I canGÇÖt say for sure what the issue is beyond the possibility that data packet correlation is poorly optimized at this moment.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 818	Posted - 2013.10.27 18:55:00 - [105] - Quote Bethhy wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: This became a huge thing when 1.4 launched, and it's killed a lot of the satisfaction in the game for a significant chunk of the player-base. The assumption when 1.4 launched is that is was all because of aim-assist (remember all those threads), yet there was also a matter where hit-detection of various weapons had improved in tandem. This was something you (CCP) said you'd be watching. I hope you've seen by now how laughably short someone's life is under the gun of even a MLT-grade quality. What do you think makes Dust unique in comparison to something like Halo or Quake? You would think the fact that character advancement allows you to customize your suit would be a large factor, no? Take a look at this Halo video. From the point at which the video starts, you can see it takes him a couple direct volleys with his rifle to drop/kill his opponent. It's about 6 seconds or so, and his aim is pretty good. Halo is a deathmatch sort of game where your suits are not custom and the battles are meant to be frantic and short. Compare that to Dust 514 in 1.4. (this is from CEOPyrex's video) Aside from the fact that his aim was all over the place and he was barely hitting him, it's even quicker to kill people in Dust, a game where you can fit armor/shield modules and be customized after MONTHS of play. The fact you can drop people super-quick now isn't a newsflash; it's been all over the forums since 1.4 dropped. I've heard a few suggestions for fixes, but perhaps removing the 10% across the board damage increase you gave with all the hit-detection issues at launch would be a good start. Please fix this. Fittings, skills, etc. are supposed to matter. Right now you've rendered 90% of skills pointless as a Frontline Starter with a MLT rifle and Zero SP invested can drop just about anyone faster than those guys in Halo, etc. If you want your game to be something different, then realize shooting for faster/more-death-laden gameplay than a Halo, etc. game is not the direction you want to be heading. Agreed, I can barely shield people while I revive them anymore, remove 10% buff. there was no magical 10% buff? please people learn history... it will set you free in almost anything in life. 10% damage was introduced after they removed the weaponry skill bonus of 2% damage per level. And made it a skill sink skill where lvl 2 and 4 do absolutely nothing. but **** people off being the first skill you have to get and it already being a skill point sink. no magical 10% damage showed up to anything. And hit detection is worse then it has ever been.... TTK in beta was no different... you died just as fast... we still loved it... But when you did die it was to a predictable shot or something that took more then 1 shot(thales/charge excluded) Now you get one shot naded by a militia grenade... let alone a core locus... the grenade 1 shot kill spam's is hilarious... Forge gun 1 shot kill deaths everywhere... Mass drivers 1-2 shotting every low health point suit with almost impossible to miss splash radius's... CCP has installed Aim-bot and these one shot kill weapons to compress skill gap's in the game... It has to do with eliminating a players ability to play a perfect game with skill... Allowing a random element to always one shot kill you... no matter how good the positioning or ability is. CCP made these choices and personally its why a majority of people i know will never touch this game again. Catering to casual's in that sort of way is unforgivable for most... and it's truely sad. I agree with the one shot kills. It's game design 101. For a death to not be frustrating, the player must understand why they died and how they could've avoided it. If you die because the other guy had more aim or because you let them get behind you, then it's understandable and not very frustrating. When you get OHKO by a Thale hundreds of meters away that isn't rendered, can't be scanned and can't be killed by you? 1-2HKO weapons negate the opposing player's skill by allowing a skilled player to kill them (Tactical Snipers can Double Tap you; I die to more of these than Thales) before they can reasonably react. It's supposed to be a scale and CCP places a 100kg weight on one side. At the same time, with the normal variant's slow fire rate, if the bullet does low damage then the Sniper can basically never kill anyone, which is unfair to snipers. I hate Sniper Rifles in most games. It's harder to balance in Dust 514 because the maps are huge with many towers and hills and there isn't a lot of cover on the ground. Unlike, say, Killzone, where a skilled Assault Rifle user can kill the average Sniper with good aim, Sniper Rifles have hundreds of meters in range advantage. Even if you see a sniper, unless you also have a sniper rifle, you can't do anything about him. Forges are even worse game design because they OHKO you NO MATTER WHAT YOU'RE WEARING. In fact, fully tanked PRO suits can be easier to OHKO than standard suits because they often move a little slower due to armor plates. Heavies are hilariously easy to one shot with Forge guns. Several times I've seen the enemy team has a lot of Heavies, so I swap to Militia Forge + Basic Heavy Frame and sit on a tower. Hold button, slowly sweep over area, let go as soon as reticule goes red. OHKO. 17/2. Forge Guns are a problem because they have a TTK of 0 seconds. No one can react to that.
Cosgar ParagonX 6665	Posted - 2013.10.27 19:15:00 - [106] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: Bethhy wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: This became a huge thing when 1.4 launched, and it's killed a lot of the satisfaction in the game for a significant chunk of the player-base. The assumption when 1.4 launched is that is was all because of aim-assist (remember all those threads), yet there was also a matter where hit-detection of various weapons had improved in tandem. This was something you (CCP) said you'd be watching. I hope you've seen by now how laughably short someone's life is under the gun of even a MLT-grade quality. What do you think makes Dust unique in comparison to something like Halo or Quake? You would think the fact that character advancement allows you to customize your suit would be a large factor, no? Take a look at this Halo video. From the point at which the video starts, you can see it takes him a couple direct volleys with his rifle to drop/kill his opponent. It's about 6 seconds or so, and his aim is pretty good. Halo is a deathmatch sort of game where your suits are not custom and the battles are meant to be frantic and short. Compare that to Dust 514 in 1.4. (this is from CEOPyrex's video) Aside from the fact that his aim was all over the place and he was barely hitting him, it's even quicker to kill people in Dust, a game where you can fit armor/shield modules and be customized after MONTHS of play. The fact you can drop people super-quick now isn't a newsflash; it's been all over the forums since 1.4 dropped. I've heard a few suggestions for fixes, but perhaps removing the 10% across the board damage increase you gave with all the hit-detection issues at launch would be a good start. Please fix this. Fittings, skills, etc. are supposed to matter. Right now you've rendered 90% of skills pointless as a Frontline Starter with a MLT rifle and Zero SP invested can drop just about anyone faster than those guys in Halo, etc. If you want your game to be something different, then realize shooting for faster/more-death-laden gameplay than a Halo, etc. game is not the direction you want to be heading. Agreed, I can barely shield people while I revive them anymore, remove 10% buff. there was no magical 10% buff? please people learn history... it will set you free in almost anything in life. 10% damage was introduced after they removed the weaponry skill bonus of 2% damage per level. And made it a skill sink skill where lvl 2 and 4 do absolutely nothing. but **** people off being the first skill you have to get and it already being a skill point sink. no magical 10% damage showed up to anything. And hit detection is worse then it has ever been.... TTK in beta was no different... you died just as fast... we still loved it... But when you did die it was to a predictable shot or something that took more then 1 shot(thales/charge excluded) Now you get one shot naded by a militia grenade... let alone a core locus... the grenade 1 shot kill spam's is hilarious... Forge gun 1 shot kill deaths everywhere... Mass drivers 1-2 shotting every low health point suit with almost impossible to miss splash radius's... CCP has installed Aim-bot and these one shot kill weapons to compress skill gap's in the game... It has to do with eliminating a players ability to play a perfect game with skill... Allowing a random element to always one shot kill you... no matter how good the positioning or ability is. CCP made these choices and personally its why a majority of people i know will never touch this game again. Catering to casual's in that sort of way is unforgivable for most... and it's truely sad. I agree with the one shot kills. It's game design 101. For a death to not be frustrating, the player must understand why they died and how they could've avoided it. If you die because the other guy had more aim or because you let them get behind you, then it's understandable and not very frustrating. When you get OHKO by a Thale hundreds of meters away that isn't rendered, can't be scanned and can't be killed by you? 1-2HKO weapons negate the opposing player's skill by allowing a skilled player to kill them (Tactical Snipers can Double Tap you; I die to more of these than Thales) before they can reasonably react. It's supposed to be a scale and CCP places a 100kg weight on one side. At the same time, with the normal variant's slow fire rate, if the bullet does low damage then the Sniper can basically never kill anyone, which is unfair to snipers. I hate Sniper Rifles in most games. It's harder to balance in Dust 514 because the maps are huge with many towers and hills and there isn't a lot of cover on the ground. Unlike, say, Killzone, where a skilled Assault Rifle user can kill the average Sniper with good aim, Sniper Rifles have hundreds of meters in range advantage. Even if you see a sniper, unless you also have a sniper rifle, you can't do anything about him. Forges are even worse game design because they OHKO you NO MATTER WHAT YOU'RE WEARING. In fact, fully tanked PRO suits can be easier to OHKO than standard suits because they often move a little slower due to armor plates. Heavies are hilariously easy to one shot with Forge guns. Several times I've seen the enemy team has a lot of Heavies, so I swap to Militia Forge + Basic Heavy Frame and sit on a tower. Hold button, slowly sweep over area, let go as soon as reticule goes red. OHKO. 17/2. Forge Guns are a problem because they have a TTK of 0 seconds. No one can react to that. All the above could be fixed by adjusting damage falloff and draw distance.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 818	Posted - 2013.10.27 19:28:00 - [107] - Quote Cosgar wrote: All the above could be fixed by adjusting damage falloff and draw distance. Snipers don't really have fall off. They have a 600m combined optimal and effective range. You could lower the optimal, but it's a Sniper Rifle. Draw distance makes it hard to see snipers to avoid them, so that could help. Of course, you'd have to look 360 degrees at all the sniper points every ten seconds to catch them. Forge Guns have a combined 300m optimal and effective range. I think they do have a very sharp damage drop off after that. Lowering their optimal would help. Draw distance would help, but not tackle the root of the problem.
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 74	Posted - 2013.10.27 19:44:00 - [108] - Quote I TOTALLY AGREE !!!! The actual TTK is really too short for all weapons based an Aim assist and/or high RoF because of the Hit detection issues from Uprising 1.4 The problem is actually from ALL weapons that have a high RoF. (Assault Rifle / assault Scrambler rifle / SMG (who becams as good as a primary) Because of this Dust start become COD and it makes me sad. Remove the 10% of damage will be a good start. And range of Assault rifle (and Assault scrambler) should be lightly nerfed because their high RoF make them highly deadly even beyond their range. (Normal scrambler is fine). Actually Tanking is almost impossible killling an ennemy that have 600 or 1200 hp is almost the same....
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 74	Posted - 2013.10.27 19:49:00 - [109] - Quote But actually some weapons should not be nerfed because hit detection didn't touch them and doesn't have Aim Assist. Secondaries (exept SMG) / Mass Driver / Breach and Burst version of all weapons / Laser rifles / Swarm launcher / HMG (Which is fine now) / Shotguns / Scrambler Rifle (exept assault version)
hgghyujh expert intervention Caldari State 136	Posted - 2013.10.27 23:13:00 - [110] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: This became a huge thing when 1.4 launched, and it's killed a lot of the satisfaction in the game for a significant chunk of the player-base. The assumption when 1.4 launched is that was all because of aim-assist (remember all those threads), yet there was also a matter where hit-detection of various weapons had improved in tandem, and other issues as well. This was something you (CCP) said you'd be watching. I hope you've seen by now how laughably short someone's life is under the gun of even MLT-grade quality. What do you think makes Dust unique in comparison to something like Halo or Quake? You would think the fact that character advancement allows you to customize your suit would be a large factor, no? Take a look at this Halo video. From the point at which the video starts, you can see it takes him a couple direct volleys with his rifle to drop/kill his opponent. It's about 6 seconds or so, and his aim is pretty good. Halo is a deathmatch sort of game where your suits are not custom and the battles are meant to be frantic and short. Compare that to Dust 514 in 1.4. (this is from CEOPyrex's video) Aside from the fact that his aim was all over the place and he was barely hitting him, it's even quicker to kill people in Dust, a game where you can fit armor/shield modules and be customized after MONTHS of play. The fact you can drop people super-quick now isn't a newsflash; it's been all over the forums since 1.4 dropped. I've heard a few suggestions for fixes, but perhaps removing the 10% across the board damage increase you gave with all the hit-detection issues at launch would be a good start. Please fix this. Fittings, skills, etc. are supposed to matter. Right now you've rendered 90% of skills pointless as a Frontline Starter with a MLT rifle and Zero SP invested can drop just about anyone faster than those guys in Halo, etc. If you want your game to be something different, then realize shooting for faster/more-death-laden gameplay than a Halo, etc. game is not the direction you want to be heading. I would double base dropsuit HP as well, It will help deemphasize tank modals which have become the only way to assemble your suit.

Cosgar ParagonX 6696	Posted - 2013.10.28 02:58:00 - [111] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: Cosgar wrote: All the above could be fixed by adjusting damage falloff and draw distance. Snipers don't really have fall off. They have a 600m combined optimal and effective range. You could lower the optimal, but it's a Sniper Rifle. Draw distance makes it hard to see snipers to avoid them, so that could help. Of course, you'd have to look 360 degrees at all the sniper points every ten seconds to catch them. Forge Guns have a combined 300m optimal and effective range. I think they do have a very sharp damage drop off after that. Lowering their optimal would help. Draw distance would help, but not tackle the root of the problem. This could be a topic within itself. That's one of the biggest imbalance issues in any game- a mechanic or tactic that can only be challenged by itself. I shouldn't have to throw SP into a sniper rifle just to deal with one hiding behind the redline, and I shouldn't have to waste a dropship with the chance to take out a forge gunner on a roof. CCP has been making the effort to mitigate both issues through map design with the new sockets, but the core of the problem could be resolved by A) Negating any damage taken from behind the redline, and B) Making forge gun's more obvious to see from a distance (and maybe cutting down range until draw distance gets sorted out) I agree that cheap deaths can be a serious issue when there's no safe way to avoid or counter it.
KA24DERT Pure Innocence. EoN. 210	Posted - 2013.10.28 05:25:00 - [112] - Quote I do agree with the Forge being too powerful against infantry. It probably needs a nerf against drop suits and also have a small random trajectory variance so that it can't snipe infantry with pinpoint accuracy, but can still hit a vehicle. Sniper rifles I feel are fine. Working as intended. I've killed lots of prototype snipers with the base rifle. Skill is key. That said, the day to day scourge of this game is the raw DPS of the hit-scan weapons combined with Auto-Aim. Some people are suggesting a 10% drop in damage to the main battle rifles, but I'm thinking more like 30% to start. A Duvolle does a BASE damage of 467.5 per second. That's enough to drop most fits in the game. IN ONE SECOND. A 10% nerf brings the DPS down to 420.75. That's still enough to drop most fits in the game in under a second. 30% brings the DPS down to 327.25 base. Three seconds to drop a fully decked out proto suit with 900+ hp? Now we're entering the realm of reason. The nerf for ARs and ScRs *STARTS* at 30%, or HP in this game will remain a near meaningless statistic. For comparison, the Freedom Mass Driver gets 270 DPS, IF you get a direct hit. Which is why I share Mordecai Sanguine's sentiment that a nerf should NOT be across the board.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2868	Posted - 2013.10.28 07:16:00 - [113] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: I do agree with the Forge being too powerful against infantry. It probably needs a nerf against drop suits and also have a small random trajectory variance so that it can't snipe infantry with pinpoint accuracy, but can still hit a vehicle. Sniper rifles I feel are fine. Working as intended. I've killed lots of prototype snipers with the base rifle. Skill is key. That said, the day to day scourge of this game is the raw DPS of the hit-scan weapons combined with Auto-Aim. Some people are suggesting a 10% drop in damage to the main battle rifles, but I'm thinking more like 30% to start. A Duvolle does a BASE damage of 467.5 per second. That's enough to drop most fits in the game. IN ONE SECOND. A 10% nerf brings the DPS down to 420.75. That's still enough to drop most fits in the game in under a second. 30% brings the DPS down to 327.25 base. Three seconds to drop a fully decked out proto suit with 900+ hp? Now we're entering the realm of reason. The nerf for ARs and ScRs *STARTS* at 30%, or HP in this game will remain a near meaningless statistic. For comparison, the Freedom Mass Driver gets 270 DPS, IF you get a direct hit. Which is why I share Mordecai Sanguine's sentiment that a nerf should NOT be across the board. Like I said, I'm not worried about 10% being too much, but I think it's a start. I personally doubt TTK would be "fixed" in any real sense with only a 10% debuff, as the problems are a bit broader than just the raw damage output as you suggest. The combination of AA and hit-detection changes made for a large adjustment. A 10% change alone wouldn't shift things like "Basic Shield Extenders" into the range of "meaningful/useful module" even on the MLT level. I think I may be at odds vision-wise with some other people on what "fixed" would look like. If a person is completely skilled and outfitted into tanking (all complex shield extenders and plates at max in a PRO suit), I don't think an individual MLT guy should be able to drop him in a couple seconds. I think going all tank should be sacrificing your damage potential (or other potential to some degree) as well. I think the all-tanked troops should only be dropping quickly if faced with focused fire from more than one unit. Relatively speaking of course. The current way the game works emphasizes damage over everything else, and a much much smaller quantity of SP invested in damage mods/weapons to PRO will make a much larger difference than and tanking modules you could ever skill into (which are all much more expensive relatively). The current game advertises tanking and damage mitigation options which don't actually mitigate to any great degree. This is an issue. The tanking issue is bad enough though, that as mentioned, you can take down well-tanked people with a MLT weapon and no skills very easily as well. In the world of Dust, protective technology hasn't kept pace with damage tech.
Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 436	Posted - 2013.10.28 08:04:00 - [114] - Quote All things being equal with the TTK shortened severely from 1.4 and the earlier builds, even with a BPO suit it is very difficult for players not running glass tanks and damage mods to make any amount of isk that would allow them to upgrade their gear, replace lost suits or buy skills. Something needs to be done, now not later. The emergency 10% buff was slated to be removed when and if it was found to be too much. How about a hot fix to remove it and see if that fixes the issue. I agree with one of the previous posts that ping times and client matching needs to be a lot better as well. If he is rendering in front of me and my bullets are landing on the rendered image it should do damage to him. He shouldn't be able to turn around on me a cut me down with 1-2 rounds even if he is using a Duvolle, they aren't a 200 damage per bullet gun they are supposed to be approximately 425dps. Heck I've emptied full clips into people with a Duvolle and they stand there finish killing their target then turn around and kill me with their Militia Assault Rifle while I reload. This is absolutely broken. A final thought on the subject. After patch implementation it should be absolutely mandatory for all the devs involved in every aspect of the game to sit down (standing is ok I do that sometimes) and play at least 2-3 hours of Dust514 to fully experience what they expect us to. This may solve some of the issues as they will see firsthand what the game has turned into. In fact I recommend that before working on anything else as of now they play at least one match (not academy) and then go to work on what needs to be done.
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 77	Posted - 2013.10.28 10:19:00 - [115] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: I do agree with the Forge being too powerful against infantry. It probably needs a nerf against drop suits and also have a small random trajectory variance so that it can't snipe infantry with pinpoint accuracy, but can still hit a vehicle. Sniper rifles I feel are fine. Working as intended. I've killed lots of prototype snipers with the base rifle. Skill is key. That said, the day to day scourge of this game is the raw DPS of the hit-scan weapons combined with Auto-Aim. Some people are suggesting a 10% drop in damage to the main battle rifles, but I'm thinking more like 30% to start. A Duvolle does a BASE damage of 467.5 per second. That's enough to drop most fits in the game. IN ONE SECOND. A 10% nerf brings the DPS down to 420.75. That's still enough to drop most fits in the game in under a second. 30% brings the DPS down to 327.25 base. Three seconds to drop a fully decked out proto suit with 900+ hp? Now we're entering the realm of reason. The nerf for ARs and ScRs *STARTS* at 30%, or HP in this game will remain a near meaningless statistic. For comparison, the Freedom Mass Driver gets 270 DPS, IF you get a direct hit. Which is why I share Mordecai Sanguine's sentiment that a nerf should NOT be across the board. Like you said a lot of weapons should not be touch by a major nerf. Totally agree with you. BUT i think Scrambler rifle is fine. Only the Assault scrambler rifle should be nerfed.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles 227	Posted - 2013.10.28 17:32:00 - [116] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Bethhy wrote: there was no magical 10% buff? please people learn history... it will set you free in almost anything in life. ... no magical 10% damage showed up to anything. And hit detection is worse then it has ever been.... No one is suggesting anything "magical" happened. I cite the exact dev posts referencing the buff here. History is great, but you need to work on finishing a page before you teach it. If the dev's are thinking everyone getting the 10% DAMAGE WE ALREADY HAD... has created a TTk issue? just go back and watch any Beta gameplay vid... because that simply isnt true. And if they are basing the TTK from uprising launch? where they lost over half their active population in one patch... They need to go back to beta where everyone still lives... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZI6msPfY7Y And incase you wonder why we vet's love the old beta concept... The game was just cooler then... Even the graphix where 100 times better looking IMO. They have made it cartoony and lost that "DUST" element [u]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnLOT4ljptM/u] Specifically said by you Zeylon Rho wrote: So, we have a damage bonus that was in part a reaction to an outcry of players reacting to changes in what they were familiar with, but it was actually a combined issue with: less range, aiming/control, hit-detection/rendering, and fall-off damage issues. So, if we're at a point where these other issue have been fixed; it's time for the crutch TO GO! There was no bonus... it has always existed in DUST... no magical 10% damage came out of thin air...everyone already had it.. Except Weaponry actually was worth getting not a skill that does absolutely nothing... AA is the elephant in the room... MAG never had any AA...two newberry's meet each other with AA and it ends quick... lol. Hit detection is messed still, and everyone thinking its to good that's why we are dieing so fast... is ... welll
Bethhy Ancient Exiles 227	Posted - 2013.10.28 18:09:00 - [117] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: Bethhy wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: This became a huge thing when 1.4 launched, and it's killed a lot of the satisfaction in the game for a significant chunk of the player-base. The assumption when 1.4 launched is that is was all because of aim-assist (remember all those threads), yet there was also a matter where hit-detection of various weapons had improved in tandem. This was something you (CCP) said you'd be watching. I hope you've seen by now how laughably short someone's life is under the gun of even a MLT-grade quality. What do you think makes Dust unique in comparison to something like Halo or Quake? You would think the fact that character advancement allows you to customize your suit would be a large factor, no? Take a look at this Halo video. From the point at which the video starts, you can see it takes him a couple direct volleys with his rifle to drop/kill his opponent. It's about 6 seconds or so, and his aim is pretty good. Halo is a deathmatch sort of game where your suits are not custom and the battles are meant to be frantic and short. Compare that to Dust 514 in 1.4. (this is from CEOPyrex's video) Aside from the fact that his aim was all over the place and he was barely hitting him, it's even quicker to kill people in Dust, a game where you can fit armor/shield modules and be customized after MONTHS of play. The fact you can drop people super-quick now isn't a newsflash; it's been all over the forums since 1.4 dropped. I've heard a few suggestions for fixes, but perhaps removing the 10% across the board damage increase you gave with all the hit-detection issues at launch would be a good start. Please fix this. Fittings, skills, etc. are supposed to matter. Right now you've rendered 90% of skills pointless as a Frontline Starter with a MLT rifle and Zero SP invested can drop just about anyone faster than those guys in Halo, etc. If you want your game to be something different, then realize shooting for faster/more-death-laden gameplay than a Halo, etc. game is not the direction you want to be heading. Agreed, I can barely shield people while I revive them anymore, remove 10% buff. there was no magical 10% buff? please people learn history... it will set you free in almost anything in life. 10% damage was introduced after they removed the weaponry skill bonus of 2% damage per level. And made it a skill sink skill where lvl 2 and 4 do absolutely nothing. but **** people off being the first skill you have to get and it already being a skill point sink. no magical 10% damage showed up to anything. And hit detection is worse then it has ever been.... TTK in beta was no different... you died just as fast... we still loved it... But when you did die it was to a predictable shot or something that took more then 1 shot(thales/charge excluded) Now you get one shot naded by a militia grenade... let alone a core locus... the grenade 1 shot kill spam's is hilarious... Forge gun 1 shot kill deaths everywhere... Mass drivers 1-2 shotting every low health point suit with almost impossible to miss splash radius's... CCP has installed Aim-bot and these one shot kill weapons to compress skill gap's in the game... It has to do with eliminating a players ability to play a perfect game with skill... Allowing a random element to always one shot kill you... no matter how good the positioning or ability is. CCP made these choices and personally its why a majority of people i know will never touch this game again. Catering to casual's in that sort of way is unforgivable for most... and it's truely sad. I agree with the one shot kills. It's game design 101. For a death to not be frustrating, the player must understand why they died and how they could've avoided it. If you die because the other guy had more aim or because you let them get behind you, then it's understandable and not very frustrating. When you get OHKO by a Thale hundreds of meters away that isn't rendered, can't be scanned and can't be killed by you? 1-2HKO weapons negate the opposing player's skill by allowing a skilled player to kill them (Tactical Snipers can Double Tap you; I die to more of these than Thales) before they can reasonably react. It's supposed to be a scale and CCP places a 100kg weight on one side. At the same time, with the normal variant's slow fire rate, if the bullet does low damage then the Sniper can basically never kill anyone, which is unfair to snipers. I hate Sniper Rifles in most games. It's harder to balance in Dust 514 because the maps are huge with many towers and hills and there isn't a lot of cover on the ground. Unlike, say, Killzone, where a skilled Assault Rifle user can kill the average Sniper with good aim, Sniper Rifles have hundreds of meters in range advantage. Even if you see a sniper, unless you also have a sniper rifle, you can't do anything about him. Forges are even worse game design because they OHKO you NO MATTER WHAT YOU'RE WEARING. In fact, fully tanked PRO suits can be easier to OHKO than standard suits because they often move a little slower due to armor plates. Heavies are hilariously easy to one shot with Forge guns. Several times I've seen the enemy team has a lot of Heavies, so I swap to Militia Forge + Basic Heavy Frame and sit on a tower. Hold button, slowly sweep over area, let go as soon as reticule goes red. OHKO. 17/2. Forge Guns are a problem because they have a TTK of 0 seconds. No one can react to that. Snipers are fine... Working as intended.. A skilled thales sniper will oneshot any suit almost 80% of the time.. because they really only hit headhot's or miss. The snipers who shoot to just hit.. are not really snipers.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2870	Posted - 2013.10.28 18:47:00 - [118] - Quote Bethhy wrote: And if they are basing the TTK from uprising launch? where they lost over half their active population in one patch... They need to go back to beta where everyone still lives... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZI6msPfY7Y And incase you wonder why we vet's love the old beta concept... The game was just cooler then... Even the graphix where 100 times better looking IMO. They have made it cartoony and lost that "DUST" element [u]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnLOT4ljptM/u] (Do you really think DUST gameplay has done anything in the 1 year since that worth note?) From the first video, the TTK was also too short then. If you thought it was better then, you're part of the problem. TTK there is still much shorter than a game like Halo or CoD where you can't actually choose to fit shields/armor. We don't need CoD in space, and skills are made pointless by the fact they don't matter.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles 230	Posted - 2013.10.28 19:41:00 - [119] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Bethhy wrote: And if they are basing the TTK from uprising launch? where they lost over half their active population in one patch... They need to go back to beta where everyone still lives... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZI6msPfY7Y And incase you wonder why we vet's love the old beta concept... The game was just cooler then... Even the graphix where 100 times better looking IMO. They have made it cartoony and lost that "DUST" element [u]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnLOT4ljptM/u] (Do you really think DUST gameplay has done anything in the 1 year since that worth note?) From the first video, the TTK was also too short then. If you thought it was better then, you're part of the problem. TTK there is still much shorter than a game like Halo or CoD where you can't actually choose to fit shields/armor. We don't need CoD in space, and skills are made pointless by the fact they don't matter. Seriously? because ask any person considered to be competitive top 100 gun gamer's... And the TTk in beta was awesome.. everything about the gun game in beta was awesome... Most of us are still here today because we got addicted to this game in beta... And everytime we log on it makes us sad at what DUST has become from people who just don't know much...understand the history or that it even has repeated itself like 10 times already.... but those people cough have a giant opinion... Just go back and do the research... we had suit's that where half the health point values and guns that did just as much damage... but gun game was at an all time high... Even hit detection is no different.. So let's ask what is the change that made this problem.... Ahhhhh Aim assist... welcome to the giant elephant all you users keep trying to explain away. You can nerf damage and change weapon ranges and do whatever... a computer generated aiming system takes any dualing potential based on players skill a way... and makes this giant TTk issue. when gunning... OHKO weapons aside... shakes fist at CCP
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1300	Posted - 2013.10.28 19:52:00 - [120] - Quote Why do we care what some "top 100" tryhards think? I don't care about their epeen, I want character customization to matter. Right now it doesn't. I have 19 million SP right now and if I suddenly dropped to 12 million, I wouldn't know the difference. I'd just not train the armor, shield and medic skills...all blam, no tank or support. There would be no difference in the game. None. If I wanted a shooter like that I wouldn't be playing Dust, I'd be playing call of duty. We have that game already. We want something different.

Bethhy Ancient Exiles 230	Posted - 2013.10.28 20:05:00 - [121] - Quote Kristoff Atruin wrote: Why do we care what some "top 100" tryhards think? I don't care about their epeen, I want character customization to matter. Right now it doesn't. I have 19 million SP right now and if I suddenly dropped to 12 million, I wouldn't know the difference. I'd just not train the armor, shield and medic skills...all blam, no tank or support. There would be no difference in the game. None. If I wanted a shooter like that I wouldn't be playing Dust, I'd be playing call of duty. We have that game already. We want something different. And this is the problem right here with DUST... and why this game is **** right now... Who gives a ** about character customization? This game's core mechanics are fundamentally broken.... And you care about how you can customize your character... Not to mention a completely invalid argument with skill points... Some people just multi-suit train... But the people who picked one role and are maxing out every skill around that role have significant advantages... and you can see it on the score sheet at the end of every match. this AA has made this game into another CoD replica... AA was introduced into Bf3 to fix poor hit detection around lag issues they tried to fix for a year unsuccessfully. The people who are at the end game of DUST 514.. and the people who inspire up in coming players to get better... are exactly the people's opinion's you should ask... They know the math... they know the history.. they know what happens in the most extreme circumstances in DUST... the competitive aspect... Some players resent tryhard's... which is a natural human response... and why the internet word "scrub" was invented.. But most of the players try to learn off that player and eventually become better. it's about being open minded.
KA24DERT Pure Innocence. EoN. 211	Posted - 2013.10.28 20:16:00 - [122] - Quote Kristoff Atruin wrote: Why do we care what some "top 100" tryhards think? I don't care about their epeen, I want character customization to matter. Right now it doesn't. I have 19 million SP right now and if I suddenly dropped to 12 million, I wouldn't know the difference. I'd just not train the armor, shield and medic skills...all blam, no tank or support. There would be no difference in the game. None. If I wanted a shooter like that I wouldn't be playing Dust, I'd be playing call of duty. We have that game already. We want something different. There's no need for an insult, especially towards a person whose experience on how the game has changed can reveal where mistakes where made. What kind of insult is "try hard" anyway? You don't like somebody because they are good, so you insult them by saying that they are trying too hard. Let's try this insult in other contexts: Mohammed Ali? Try hard. Micheal Jordan? Try hard. Daniel Inouye? Try hard. Patrick Vincent Coleman? Try hard. Doesn't quite work eh? So why should it work in the context of video games? On top of that, it seems like you actually agree with Betthy regarding the subject of the thread, so why the hate?
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1300	Posted - 2013.10.28 20:24:00 - [123] - Quote The difference is Mohammed Ali and Micheal Jordan don't define themselves by putting down other people, trying to ruin the fun of others and attempting to manipulate the development of a game to boost their own ego. In other words, those people are sportsmanlike. I'd also like to point out that my own experience with the game far exceeds almost any person who has posted in this thread. I joined very early during beta and have seen it all.
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1301	Posted - 2013.10.28 20:30:00 - [124] - Quote I don't agree with Bethhny, because she's wrong. "Even hit detection is no different" Hit detection is very, very different. Anyone who played 1.3 would know that. It's very clearly not aim assist. I'm a mouse user, I don't even use aim assist. My ARs drop people now just as fast as a viziam with stacked damage mods used to, which was nerfed because it was killing people too quickly. If aim assist was the problem I shouldn't have noticed any difference.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2872	Posted - 2013.10.28 20:31:00 - [125] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: Bethhy wrote: And if they are basing the TTK from uprising launch? where they lost over half their active population in one patch... They need to go back to beta where everyone still lives... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZI6msPfY7Y And incase you wonder why we vet's love the old beta concept... The game was just cooler then... Even the graphix where 100 times better looking IMO. They have made it cartoony and lost that "DUST" element [u]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnLOT4ljptM/u] (Do you really think DUST gameplay has done anything in the 1 year since that worth note?) From the first video, the TTK was also too short then. If you thought it was better then, you're part of the problem. TTK there is still much shorter than a game like Halo or CoD where you can't actually choose to fit shields/armor. We don't need CoD in space, and skills are made pointless by the fact they don't matter. Seriously? because ask any person considered to be competitive top 100 gun gamer's... And the TTk in beta was awesome.. everything about the gun game in beta was awesome... Most of us are still here today because we got addicted to this game in beta... And everytime we log on it makes us sad at what DUST has become from people who just don't know much...understand the history or that it even has repeated itself like 10 times already.... but those people cough have a giant opinion... Just go back and do the research... we had suit's that where half the health point values and guns that did just as much damage... but gun game was at an all time high... Even hit detection is no different.. So let's ask what is the change that made this problem.... Ahhhhh Aim assist... welcome to the giant elephant all you users keep trying to explain away. You can nerf damage and change weapon ranges and do whatever... a computer generated aiming system takes any dualing potential based on players skill a way... and makes this giant TTk issue. when gunning... OHKO weapons aside... shakes fist at CCP The top 100 gun gamer's what? You used the possessive there, and then dropped an ellipsis. I'm not good at guessing. I mention the AA in other posts, which you would know if you knew how to read. Please have your caretaker finish reading the posts to you before typing your replies. Also, we can only wield single weapons at a time, so there will never be any "dualing potential". The gun-game in Beta was utter crap, and you showed a video to prove it. I'm not saying this from just the video though; I played pre-launch and it was crap then too. How long do you think it was taking to kill people in that first video you posted? 1 or 2 seconds? Look at the Halo video I posted. I don't care if you "Like" Halo, I just want you to see how long it takes a person to die. Now, do you think it "makes sense" that it's easier/quicker to kill someone in a game where you can spend months training up shields extenders, rechargers, regulators, armor plates, and armor repairers as opposed to a game where you start out with a default shield like Halo? If you seriously think that the "endpoint" of training defensive skills for months in Dust should be a character that lives for a shorter amount of time than a game with zero customization, then we don't need to be having this conversation. Dust shouldn't be about replicating some ideal gun-game for you that you compare to other games like top-100 people's possessions that you can't be bothered to specify. Other gun games don't necessarily have skill and equipment trees that take months to build. If you think that shouldn't matter, then there are other games for you to play elsewhere (and they won't take any time to get into).
Bethhy Ancient Exiles 231	Posted - 2013.10.28 20:39:00 - [126] - Quote Kristoff Atruin wrote: I don't agree with Bethhny, because she's wrong. "Even hit detection is no different" Hit detection is very, very different. Anyone who played 1.3 would know that. It's very clearly not aim assist. I'm a mouse user, I don't even use aim assist. My ARs drop people now just as fast as a viziam with stacked damage mods used to, which was nerfed because it was killing people too quickly. If aim assist was the problem I shouldn't have noticed any difference. Hit detection through uprising has been ****? the recent improvement's have made it no better mostly slightly worse still then beta. That hit detection comment was based on the beta gameplay Youtube links i made... go back and please watch it... will set you free.... Viziam was only glitched on headshot's you could headshot someone with a viziam and deal over 2k damage in 1 second... which was clearly broken... all the other laser rifles where perfect... We loved the diversity in DUST and the range limitations laser's put on AR users. Lasers got a blanket nerf because people didn't know at all about anything just that they where dieing.. and another classic point that people just don't know. And lasers disappeared from the battlefield which was truly sad. Mouse was way better in 1.3 sadlly the movement we had at the end of 1.3 on Mouse was amazing... so smooth and fluid... even with hit detection being horrid the movement made up for it. Now most mouse users are sitting with sensitivity 100 and mouse smoothing on.. which is funny. But the simple fact that hit detection hasn't changed for the better at all compared to beta is 100% true and the consensus... To even make the point more clear we had HALF the health then as we do now. and still TTK wasn't an issue... DUST was the place to go for a shooter with High TTK.. And that is backed up through forum post history you can easily go back and research.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles 231	Posted - 2013.10.28 20:55:00 - [127] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: The gun-game in Beta was utter crap, and you showed a video to prove it. I'm not saying this from just the video though; I played pre-launch and it was crap then too. How long do you think it was taking to kill people in that first video you posted? 1 or 2 seconds? Please after this your very amusing. An so little understanding about gun game then. if you leave your head exposed or in a area for a long time a slayer will take it off every time... two Markof22 "dueling" and its a much different video(how dare i have a typo that you took literally..) Did you actually watch how many times a skilled player died with low health values? or did you dismiss that part of the video as "tryhard's" ? everyones top 100 changes a bit... but the big names are usually always present. And if your counter post is about correcting my poor grammar... then you will win every time. i have poor grammar and even poorer spaeeeeeeeelling. TTK's in pub's is nothing... maybe you need to come to PC more... OHKO's and AA is to blame for TTK.... not some 10% damage value that has always existed... No matter how much you tell yourself that, it isn't true.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2873	Posted - 2013.10.28 21:17:00 - [128] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: The gun-game in Beta was utter crap, and you showed a video to prove it. I'm not saying this from just the video though; I played pre-launch and it was crap then too. How long do you think it was taking to kill people in that first video you posted? 1 or 2 seconds? Please after this your very amusing. An so little understanding about gun game then. if you leave your head exposed or in a area for a long time a slayer will take it off every time... two Markof22 "dueling" and its a much different video(how dare i have a typo that you took literally..) Did you actually watch how many times a skilled player died with low health values? or did you dismiss that part of the video as "tryhard's" ? everyones top 100 changes a bit... but the big names are usually always present. And if your counter post is about correcting my poor grammar... then you will win every time. i have poor grammar and even poorer spaeeeeeeeelling. TTK's in pub's is nothing... maybe you need to come to PC more... OHKO's and AA is to blame for TTK.... not some 10% damage value that has always existed... No matter how much you tell yourself that, it isn't true. It wasn't "a" typo; it was tons of typos. If your posts can't even follow at least some sort of simple high-school level logic, then they'll ultimately all be pointless. You already seem to be assuming that other posters weren't around back in beta, which is a faulty assumption on your part. I started playing within a couple weeks of you. For instance: Quote: TTK's in pub's is nothing... maybe you need to come to PC more... OHKO's and AA is to blame for TTK.... not some 10% damage value that has always existed... No matter how much you tell yourself that, it isn't true. That's not even a sentence. What can we parse from that? 1. TTK in pub's is nothing TTK in pub's what are nothing? 2. Maybe you need to come to PC more Your case for trying to introduce me to the consensus opinion is to tell me to play a mode that's been called broken by many players? 3. OHKO's and AA is to blame for TTK.... not some 10% damage value that has always existed One-hit-Knock-Out's what? That and Aim-Assist are to blame for TTK... being bad? 4. No matter how much you tell yourself that, it isn't true. What isn't true? What am I telling myself? I was observing TTK in that video. TTK isn't the max time the best possible player in the best possible circumstances can live; it's an average. The average time people were living in that video was short. Check it against the average time people live in the Halo video. The end result is that people live longer in Halo (with no system of learning defensive skills) than they do in Dust. I have never used the word "tryhard", but if I did I wouldn't somehow make it into a possessive for no apparent reason. I have no idea what you're talking about with a "top 100". TTK in pubs was all there was in beta (unless you count corp matches), which is what you were using as your example of "good". So, if it's "nothing" in pubs, and it was only good back when PC didn't exist - you seem to have some hardcore logic fail going on.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles 231	Posted - 2013.10.28 21:34:00 - [129] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Bethhy wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: The gun-game in Beta was utter crap, and you showed a video to prove it. I'm not saying this from just the video though; I played pre-launch and it was crap then too. How long do you think it was taking to kill people in that first video you posted? 1 or 2 seconds? Please after this your very amusing. An so little understanding about gun game then. if you leave your head exposed or in a area for a long time a slayer will take it off every time... two Markof22 "dueling" and its a much different video(how dare i have a typo that you took literally..) Did you actually watch how many times a skilled player died with low health values? or did you dismiss that part of the video as "tryhard's" ? everyones top 100 changes a bit... but the big names are usually always present. And if your counter post is about correcting my poor grammar... then you will win every time. i have poor grammar and even poorer spaeeeeeeeelling. TTK's in pub's is nothing... maybe you need to come to PC more... OHKO's and AA is to blame for TTK.... not some 10% damage value that has always existed... No matter how much you tell yourself that, it isn't true. It wasn't "a" typo; it was tons of typos. If your posts can't even follow at least some sort of simple high-school level logic, then they'll ultimately all be pointless. You already seem to be assuming that other posters weren't around back in beta, which is a faulty assumption on your part. I started playing within a couple weeks of you. For instance: Quote: TTK's in pub's is nothing... maybe you need to come to PC more... OHKO's and AA is to blame for TTK.... not some 10% damage value that has always existed... No matter how much you tell yourself that, it isn't true. That's not even a sentence. What can we parse from that? 1. TTK in pub's is nothing TTK in pub's what are nothing? 2. Maybe you need to come to PC more Your case for trying to introduce me to the consensus opinion is to tell me to play a mode that's been called broken by many players? 3. OHKO's and AA is to blame for TTK.... not some 10% damage value that has always existed One-hit-Knock-Out's what? That and Aim-Assist are to blame for TTK... being bad? 4. No matter how much you tell yourself that, it isn't true. What isn't true? What am I telling myself? I was observing TTK in that video. TTK isn't the max time the best possible player in the best possible circumstances can live; it's an average. The average time people were living in that video was short. Check it against the average time people live in the Halo video. The end result is that people live longer in Halo (with no system of learning defensive skills) than they do in Dust. I have never used the word "tryhard", but if I did I wouldn't somehow make it into a possessive for no apparent reason. I have no idea what you're talking about with a "top 100". TTK in pubs was all there was in beta (unless you count corp matches), which is what you were using as your example of "good". So, if it's "nothing" in pubs, and it was only good back when PC didn't exist - you seem to have some hardcore logic fail going on. So wait... when someone bounces 5 shots off your head with skill and ability .. and you die... thats because a 10% damage buff? that has always been in the game? TTK's currently in pub's are nothing compared to PC's...and imagine how many skillpoint's and high health point suit's we are rocking... But you are only trying to dilute very clear points. by being a grammar N.azi.. If you simply want to devalue posts based upon grammar and spelling on an international game with an international player base... most with English not even their 3rd or 4th language... then you speak loudly to the person you are. Open the mind please... a militia suit will never have a high TTK versus a proto... and if they stand in the open and try and directly duel a proto they will loose... this was common sense when i started... facing nonstop proto-stomps from Imp's, PFBhz etc...
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2873	Posted - 2013.10.28 22:08:00 - [130] - Quote It doesn't matter how international the game is. If your ideas aren't communicated on at least a junior high level, then I'll have no idea what you're talking about. The distribution of a game doesn't change how language works. The fact you can't see this speaks loudly to how willfully ignorant or intellectually lazy you choose to be. I've already stated that a 10% damage debuff wouldn't be enough to fix the issues, but you keep coming back around to it anyway. This suggests to me that you can't read. I've also pointed out repeatedly that there are some key issues if a player in Dust lives a shorter amount of time than a player in another game where you can't train skills. The issue there is that the skills and equipment you train to protect yourself can take months of investment, but they leave you surviving for a shorter amount of time than a player in a game that has no need for strategic investment of SP/EXP/whatever. The point is the life of a person that has invested in skills to protect themselves is too short given the time required to achieve those skills. You would expect that the TTK of a tanked person would be longer than a game with no skills, not shorter. This is talking about TTK as an average. You continue to make assumptions about what I may or may not do in games, and what the people I shoot at will or won't be wearing. I already told you that I was playing within weeks of you. You talk about me getting after you for grammar, but you'll talk down to people as if we've only "heard" of protosuits and skills. You act as if none of the people voicing their support have used proto-level gear or been around awhile. Do you think I have less than 2 million SP? Do you think I've never seen a Proto suit? Never shot at one? Never worn one? Your experiences are not in any way unique, special, or correct. The video you posted was just evidence of the TTK being shorter than Halo/etc. even back in beta. So, I suppose I should thank you for providing additional evidence at how screwed up the TTK is in this game.

Bethhy Ancient Exiles 231	Posted - 2013.10.28 22:35:00 - [131] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: It doesn't matter how international the game is. If your ideas aren't communicated on at least a junior high level, then I'll have no idea what you're talking about. The distribution of a game doesn't change how language works. The fact you can't see this speaks loudly to how willfully ignorant or intellectually lazy you choose to be. I've already stated that a 10% damage debuff wouldn't be enough to fix the issues, but you keep coming back around to it anyway. This suggests to me that you can't read. I've also pointed out repeatedly that there are some key issues if a player in Dust lives a shorter amount of time than a player in another game where you can't train skills. The issue there is that the skills and equipment you train to protect yourself can take months of investment, but they leave you surviving for a shorter amount of time than a player in a game that has no need for strategic investment of SP/EXP/whatever. The point is the life of a person that has invested in skills to protect themselves is too short given the time required to achieve those skills. You would expect that the TTK of a tanked person would be longer than a game with no skills, not shorter. This is talking about TTK as an average. Zeylon Rhio Your experiences are not in any way unique, special, or correct. The video you posted was just evidence of the TTK being shorter than Halo/etc. even back in beta. So, I suppose I should thank you for providing additional evidence at how screwed up the TTK is in this game. You keep assuming a player should automatically live longer when he's getting shot in the head repeatedly... and i keep coming around to the 10% buff because u seem to think it came out of thin air and argued that point on 2 separate counter posts to me. No one has to assume your skill... it's well documented and kinda abysmal, 3700 kills and you talk about experience in the game...from Subdreddit? and shooting loads of proto suits... You seriously are the exact example of every person who has a giant opinion with no experience or little to speak of... and are posting on forums. My 5th alt has more kills then you.... by a significant amount. Simple fact is much more credible sources can be quoted all over these forums that gun game and TTk in beta was amazing... And if you continue to argue that it wasn't you only show yourself out. Even the death's that happened in that round against the team that got stomped werent even HALF of what the average death's are now... the hit detection didn't make everyone die a lot... Welcome to the extra deaths from OHKO's and AA, adding to players that never should of got that kill to begin with. Junior highschool? had to google that... is that so the big kids don't pick on the little ones? you could grammar **** 50% of the developer posts in DUST if you really wanted... as most of them don't speak english as their first language either... And no i doubt you where playing in closed beta... Do you even know one of the blackop's tank names without googling it? did you even know black op's tanks existed in the game? There is a reason i had to post a video from a year ago almost to the week. People don't know this game has gone backwards almost for the sake of UI upgrades and a broken PC system.
Zatara Rought MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 1433	Posted - 2013.10.28 22:41:00 - [132] - Quote You can't argue with a person who is prejudiced prior to investigation. It's the most prideful, self-assured stupidity.
Cosgar ParagonX 6746	Posted - 2013.10.28 23:28:00 - [133] - Quote TTK in beta was pretty solid until Codex from what I remember. The breach AR kind of ruined it though.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2875	Posted - 2013.10.28 23:37:00 - [134] - Quote Bethhy wrote: You keep assuming a player should automatically live longer when he's getting shot in the head repeatedly... and i keep coming around to the 10% buff because u seem to think it came out of thin air and argued that point on 2 separate counter posts to me. No one has to assume your skill... it's well documented and kinda abysmal, 3700 kills and you talk about experience in the game...from Subdreddit? and shooting loads of proto suits... You seriously are the exact example of every person who has a giant opinion with no experience or little to speak of... and are posting on forums. My 5th alt has more kills then you.... by a significant amount. Simple fact is much more credible sources can be quoted all over these forums that gun game and TTk in beta was amazing... And if you continue to argue that it wasn't you only show yourself out. Even the death's that happened in that round against the team that got stomped werent even HALF of what the average death's are now... the hit detection didn't make everyone die a lot... Welcome to the extra deaths from OHKO's and AA, adding to players that never should of got that kill to begin with. Junior highschool? had to google that... is that so the big kids don't pick on the little ones? you could grammar **** 50% of the developer posts in DUST if you really wanted... as most of them don't speak english as their first language either... And no i doubt you where playing in closed beta... Do you even know one of the blackop's tank names without googling it? did you even know black op's tanks existed in the game? There is a reason i had to post a video from a year ago almost to the week. People don't know this game has gone backwards almost for the sake of UI upgrades and a broken PC system. Yes, a player in a game a with armor/shield skills that can choose to preferentially skill towards tanking should live longer when being shot in the head than a player player in Halo where you don't have any skills to train. Is that succinct enough for you? I quoted the lines about the 10% buff since you said we claimed in magically appeared, and I cited the exact dev comments about when the 10% buff. I've gone on to state in multiple posts that a 10% "debuff" probably wouldn't fix TTK. At what point did I say loads of protosuits? I've worn them, shot at them, and shot from them. I've played a primarily logistics role since launch. I've capped out my SP every week until last week since April. I'm sorry that my play-time doesn't match someone that has a "fifth alt", because clearly you have tons of time to invest in the game. If you want to prove you have no life beyond this game, good job? However, playing until SP-cap since before official release seems like more than a large enough amount of play-time to have an informed opinion to me. Capping every week already puts me at more time spent than the average player. You're more of an outlier than me. I'd hate to think how crappy this game would be if you had to be the sort of player with a "5th alt" to have an opinion, or pay attention to things like Top 100 whatevers of nobodies. This may surprise you, but you don't actually need to shoot at "loads" of protosuits to get a feel for how long it takes to kill one. In fact, in pubs you would get a chance to compare the people in protosuits to the people in advanced/standard in the same game. Imagine that! Though I've already pointed out that you like to dismiss other people's opinions under the guise of your leetness, and so I'm certain you didn't JUST make a post doing exactly that. Your video proves TTK in beta was crap, because we can actually see it. There's a time running on the video, and it's easy to count. Junior High is where boys and girls go around puberty to learn basic grammar and logic. I have pointed out issues to Devs on grammar in their posts, and they typically correct them after I do. The difference there is that they're not proud of being ignorant like yourself.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 1742	Posted - 2013.10.28 23:52:00 - [135] - Quote The problem is with hitscan weapons in general, combined with the ridiculous aim assist and the OP AR specifically. All of these combined with a modest increase in hit registration has basically ruined Dust. Until CCP wakes up though, this is what we have. Hail AR 514. Hail king AR.
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 1077	Posted - 2013.10.29 01:39:00 - [136] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Bethhy wrote: You keep assuming a player should automatically live longer when he's getting shot in the head repeatedly... and i keep coming around to the 10% buff because u seem to think it came out of thin air and argued that point on 2 separate counter posts to me. No one has to assume your skill... it's well documented and kinda abysmal, 3700 kills and you talk about experience in the game...from Subdreddit? and shooting loads of proto suits... You seriously are the exact example of every person who has a giant opinion with no experience or little to speak of... and are posting on forums. My 5th alt has more kills then you.... by a significant amount. Simple fact is much more credible sources can be quoted all over these forums that gun game and TTk in beta was amazing... And if you continue to argue that it wasn't you only show yourself out. Even the death's that happened in that round against the team that got stomped werent even HALF of what the average death's are now... the hit detection didn't make everyone die a lot... Welcome to the extra deaths from OHKO's and AA, adding to players that never should of got that kill to begin with. Junior highschool? had to google that... is that so the big kids don't pick on the little ones? you could grammar **** 50% of the developer posts in DUST if you really wanted... as most of them don't speak english as their first language either... And no i doubt you where playing in closed beta... Do you even know one of the blackop's tank names without googling it? did you even know black op's tanks existed in the game? There is a reason i had to post a video from a year ago almost to the week. People don't know this game has gone backwards almost for the sake of UI upgrades and a broken PC system. Yes, a player in a game a with armor/shield skills that can choose to preferentially skill towards tanking should live longer when being shot in the head than a player player in Halo where you don't have any skills to train. Is that succinct enough for you? I quoted the lines about the 10% buff since you said we claimed in magically appeared, and I cited the exact dev comments about when the 10% buff. I've gone on to state in multiple posts that a 10% "debuff" probably wouldn't fix TTK. At what point did I say loads of protosuits? I've worn them, shot at them, and shot from them. I've played a primarily logistics role since launch. I've capped out my SP every week until last week since April. I'm sorry that my play-time doesn't match someone that has a "fifth alt", because clearly you have tons of time to invest in the game. If you want to prove you have no life beyond this game, good job? However, playing until SP-cap since before official release seems like more than a large enough amount of play-time to have an informed opinion to me. Capping every week already puts me at more time spent than the average player. You're more of an outlier than me. I'd hate to think how crappy this game would be if you had to be the sort of player with a "5th alt" to have an opinion, or pay attention to things like Top 100 whatevers of nobodies. This may surprise you, but you don't actually need to shoot at "loads" of protosuits to get a feel for how long it takes to kill one. In fact, in pubs you would get a chance to compare the people in protosuits to the people in advanced/standard in the same game. Imagine that! Though I've already pointed out that you like to dismiss other people's opinions under the guise of your leetness, and so I'm certain you didn't JUST make a post doing exactly that. Your video proves TTK in beta was crap, because we can actually see it. There's a time running on the video, and it's easy to count. Junior High is where boys and girls go around puberty to learn basic grammar and logic. I have pointed out issues to Devs on grammar in their posts, and they typically correct them after I do. The difference there is that they're not proud of being ignorant like yourself. Around puberty really? That late, damn Level 1 forum warrior. Minmatar and Gallente fw. Fix PC lag please CCP.
KA24DERT Pure Innocence. EoN. 212	Posted - 2013.10.29 04:43:00 - [137] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: The problem is with hitscan weapons in general, combined with the ridiculous aim assist and the OP AR specifically. All of these combined with a modest increase in hit registration has basically ruined Dust. Until CCP wakes up though, this is what we have. Hail AR 514. Hail king AR. Yes sir. I haven't paid close attention to the hit mechanics, but the AR is way OP, and Auto Aim needs to be removed.
Meeko Fent expert intervention Caldari State 1328	Posted - 2013.10.29 04:59:00 - [138] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: 10% damage buff should be removed, +1 Zee king hash spoken! Meeko's Novelty Shop Opening Soon! We (will)sell all the novelty items you desire! Really!
Cosgar ParagonX 6817	Posted - 2013.10.30 03:19:00 - [139] - Quote Nothing about the short TTK in the patch notes, here's hoping for ninja fixes. If not, I might just take another break. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
KA24DERT Pure Innocence. EoN. 212	Posted - 2013.10.30 05:41:00 - [140] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Nothing about the short TTK in the patch notes, here's hoping for ninja fixes. If not, I might just take another break. Yeah... I was thinking that because all the new weapons will be out in 1.7 that they'd put the TTK balance tweaks in there. But since they put a Heavy HP buff in before making the hypothetical balance pass, I'm not sure where on the roadmap it wound fall at this point. And looking at the new rifle stats... Maybe a short TTK is an actual design goal (ugh).

Cosgar ParagonX 6827	Posted - 2013.10.30 05:51:00 - [141] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Cosgar wrote: Nothing about the short TTK in the patch notes, here's hoping for ninja fixes. If not, I might just take another break. Yeah... I was thinking that because all the new weapons will be out in 1.7 that they'd put the TTK balance tweaks in there. But since they put a Heavy HP buff in before making the hypothetical balance pass, I'm not sure where on the roadmap it wound fall at this point. And looking at the new rifle stats... Maybe a short TTK is an actual design goal (ugh). The least they could do then is get rid of the strafe cap and the slow down from getting hit. Mobility is important in a high health FPS. If not, everything might as well be turn based. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2887	Posted - 2013.10.30 06:16:00 - [142] - Quote The heavy HP buff I guess is technically a step in the right direction, in a minor way, for a very small segment of the population. Though it's not nearly enough to fix Commandos from being generally useless....
Blake Kingston Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 138	Posted - 2013.10.30 10:13:00 - [143] - Quote With the second video, what's his character skill with the AR?
Cosgar ParagonX 6874	Posted - 2013.10.30 23:02:00 - [144] - Quote Blake Kingston wrote: With the second video, what's his character skill with the AR? I know Pyrex uses a Duvolle, but not sure he has proficiency or and doubt he can fit damage mods on his Minmatar scout. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2913	Posted - 2013.11.01 14:26:00 - [145] - Quote I'm a bit iffy on Pyrex's skillset, since he's demoed so many different weapons and vehicles in his videos over time. Though some of that was pre-launch too I think.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2922	Posted - 2013.11.03 13:36:00 - [146] - Quote Nice to see this thread receiving the attention it deserves.
Cosgar ParagonX 7047	Posted - 2013.11.03 17:55:00 - [147] - Quote If they don't fix this by 1.7, I think I'll probably uninstall and take another break. Shield tanking is absolutely worthless, there's no difference between a militia AR or Duvolle and getting killed by a gun outside my rendering distance is cheap to say the least. I'm going back to starter and BPO fits in the meantime. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Eris Ernaga DUST University Ivy League 643	Posted - 2013.11.03 21:49:00 - [148] - Quote Before 1.4 my logi had around 500 hit points, it got me through everything and anything now 600 - 750 and I am dropped very quickly hell I even made a logi with over 1k hit points and got dropped almost instantly. Ba bang baby
Booker DaFooker Ancient Exiles 153	Posted - 2013.11.03 23:49:00 - [149] - Quote Only just found this thread ( thankyou Cosgar) a million +1's for highlighting this! I would go extreme and slash dps 50% accross the board. Before everyone has a screaming fit at the idea, just actually sit down and think about how would affect your game play. You would need to be heaps more tactical and teamwork would increase to take on enemies. Kills would really start to mean something, you would get the chance to take your suit to the limit before withdrawing to recover if you can, there's just very little window of opportunity to do that right now. Another plus point made by Cosgar in another thread is that there would be more experiments and variety with fits as it would not be so necessary to fill up with plates or extenders. Reduced dps totally makes Dust the unique shooter it should be Bullshit Baffles Brains
Stephen Seneca Intara Direct Action Caldari State 1	Posted - 2013.11.04 00:00:00 - [150] - Quote Totally agree. Cut all dps in half. As a side bonus this would also make the FF issues in FW more black and white.

I-Shayz-I I-----I 1225	Posted - 2013.11.04 00:01:00 - [151] - Quote Pretty sure it's the AR that's causing this, and not TTK in general. ARs are still just too accurate at range...so all of their rounds hit the target and you insta-die within a second. Every other weapon takes quite a while to kill with. Every other weapon is balanced in terms of damage and accuracy for each of their variants. Weapons with high damage output are also required to use at longer ranges (snipers, scramblers, forges), whereas the AR does exceptionally well at long range AND short range. List of Most Important Threads I make logistics videos! (Insert future link here)
Cosgar ParagonX 7120	Posted - 2013.11.04 00:34:00 - [152] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Pretty sure it's the AR that's causing this, and not TTK in general. ARs are still just too accurate at range...so all of their rounds hit the target and you insta-die within a second. Every other weapon takes quite a while to kill with. Every other weapon is balanced in terms of damage and accuracy for each of their variants. Weapons with high damage output are also required to use at longer ranges (snipers, scramblers, forges), whereas the AR does exceptionally well at long range AND short range. The modern military FPS stigma is the real culprit here. Dust 514 as a thinking man's FPS died out when the vocal minority looking for a F2P CoD took priority in overall feedback. I've been lurking these forums for over a year slowly watching this game decline, more and more to a casual direction where reflexes and instant gratification replaced skill and strategy. Vehicles, scouts, heavies, and anything else that was supposed to make Dust better by being different dying out. Logistics is probably next and that's when I'll finally take my leave. I love Dust 514, but looking at what its become makes me vomit in my mouth a little. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Booker DaFooker Ancient Exiles 154	Posted - 2013.11.04 00:43:00 - [153] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Pretty sure it's the AR that's causing this, and not TTK in general. ARs are still just too accurate at range...so all of their rounds hit the target and you insta-die within a second. Every other weapon takes quite a while to kill with. Every other weapon is balanced in terms of damage and accuracy for each of their variants. Weapons with high damage output are also required to use at longer ranges (snipers, scramblers, forges), whereas the AR does exceptionally well at long range AND short range. I take your point about the AR but one OP weapon is not at fault for the quick ttk that this game currently has. However it can be achieved (reduced dps, increased hp etc), increasing ttk is a win win for DUST. Love the idea of longer intense attritional firefights for important positions with teamwork and differing skill sets required to gain the upper hand Flanking and other tactical shenanigans are currently really difficult for leaders to instigate because no-one survives a face off long enough to put them to use! Bullshit Baffles Brains
lrian Locust DUST University Ivy League 270	Posted - 2013.11.04 00:55:00 - [154] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: Iwith my Exile AR the HP difference between a mlt fit and a proto fit is VERY noticeable (although I don't use aim assist so maybe it's just my aim). The difference in taking down a militia vs. a proto fit should be much more than "noticeable". More proof that the TTK with an AR is too short.
lrian Locust DUST University Ivy League 270	Posted - 2013.11.04 00:57:00 - [155] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Rogatien Merc wrote: I10% nerf might be too much, but I agree there is an issue. That's why ALL weapons are going to get this Nerf. Not all weapons - only the ones that got the 10% buff in the first place. Sniper rifles, for instance, should be exempt - they never got the 10% buff.
Cosgar ParagonX 7122	Posted - 2013.11.04 01:02:00 - [156] - Quote lrian Locust wrote: Vyzion Eyri wrote: Iwith my Exile AR the HP difference between a mlt fit and a proto fit is VERY noticeable (although I don't use aim assist so maybe it's just my aim). The difference in taking down a militia vs. a proto fit should be much more than "noticeable". More proof that the TTK with an AR is too short. In earlier builds, weapons were balanced based on how much kick and dispersion they had. Standard ARs had very kick and dispersion while the GEK and Duvolle would rattle like Michael J. Fox before stem cell research if you held the trigger for too long. Even with a game breaking mechanic like sharpshooter in Chromosome, it kept the AR somewhat balanced back then because after a certain range, rounds would totally miss their mark and it was up to incidental damage and damage mods to quickly chip away at a target. Automatic weapons need to kick and disperse to promote controlled bursts instead of just simply hip firing with aim assist on to kill something from from 70+ meters away- I've been doing this with a GEK and damage mods for the past month, facepalming the entire time. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7165	Posted - 2013.11.04 08:14:00 - [157] - Quote Another weekly update and no news on the TTK situation. I might take that break sooner than later at this rate. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Laurent Cazaderon What The French 1986	Posted - 2013.11.04 11:23:00 - [158] - Quote To be fair, TTK is quite short only with a few weapons. Well with the AR to be more accurate. I've been using the gallente rifle for most of my time playing dust and i could kill pretty quickly. Since i moved to assault scrambler rifle, i find it way longer (too long tbh), even with 2 damage mods. While i still get killed in a heartbeat by any GAR. Why ? probably because of the insane lack of recoil on AR which makes it a weapon that delivers, on the BF, a way higher DPS than the rest of the weapons out there. But when i face a heavy with a HMG, i often say to myself i should have died way quicker. Same goes when fighting 1 vs 1 with another ASCR user. Obviously, i'm leaving FG out of the equation. So yeah, let's not mistake overall TTK and weapon specific TTK.
KA24DERT Pure Innocence. EoN. 231	Posted - 2013.11.04 17:43:00 - [159] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: To be fair, TTK is quite short only with a few weapons. Well with the AR to be more accurate. I've been using the gallente rifle for most of my time playing dust and i could kill pretty quickly. Since i moved to assault scrambler rifle, i find it way longer (too long tbh), even with 2 damage mods. While i still get killed in a heartbeat by any GAR. Why ? probably because of the insane lack of recoil on AR which makes it a weapon that delivers, on the BF, a way higher DPS than the rest of the weapons out there. But when i face a heavy with a HMG, i often say to myself i should have died way quicker. Same goes when fighting 1 vs 1 with another ASCR user. Obviously, i'm leaving FG out of the equation. So yeah, let's not mistake overall TTK and weapon specific TTK. Rephrasing it as a "TTK" problem lets us tip-toe towards the real issue. Start with "Nerf the AR" and knees just fly right out of their sockets. ARs need a 30% damage nerf in their current form, or a 10% nerf with added dispersion.
Cosgar ParagonX 7242	Posted - 2013.11.04 18:26:00 - [160] - Quote We all know it's the AR, it's the elephant in the room and tryhards are protecting it. What's going to get done to an issue that we've known about for over a year if 1.7 doesn't fix it? We'll just have 2 more ARs- with even moe range than the one we have now. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"

Arc-08 Knights Of Ender Public Disorder. 121	Posted - 2013.11.05 02:39:00 - [161] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: To be fair, TTK is quite short only with a few weapons. Well with the AR to be more accurate. I've been using the gallente rifle for most of my time playing dust and i could kill pretty quickly. Since i moved to assault scrambler rifle, i find it way longer (too long tbh), even with 2 damage mods. While i still get killed in a heartbeat by any GAR. Why ? probably because of the insane lack of recoil on AR which makes it a weapon that delivers, on the BF, a way higher DPS than the rest of the weapons out there. But when i face a heavy with a HMG, i often say to myself i should have died way quicker. Same goes when fighting 1 vs 1 with another ASCR user. Obviously, i'm leaving FG out of the equation. So yeah, let's not mistake overall TTK and weapon specific TTK. That isn't entirely true. Yes it has some truth but aim assist ruins things, earlier today for example, i was in a proto minmatar assault, against a standard heavy with an hmg, he was standing on stairs above me and didn't start firing his gun until he had about 200 HP left. Pre aim assist he would have missed nearly all of his shots because the barrel of his gun was pointed above my head, however with aim assist nearly all of the bullets counted as headshots so i died from his adv HMG (me having full health 500 shield 200 armor aprox) and ended up dying in under 2 seconds before i could even get another 5 shots to get the kill off. (using a duvolle) Same applies to dropships, and scout LAV's, and scouts, and heavies. TTK is to short, if you have a proto assault suit, you can get headshot by a charged up scrambler rifle, then any random mlt weapon can finish you off with a handfull of shots. I belive that what the OP is trying to say is that MLT gear is too effective against prototype gear. The META LEVEL of suits is supposed to give resistance against weapons that are lower than it's meta level, if just a tiny bit. I can 1v1 any proto assault or logi with a blueprint MLT assault rifle. I've taken out proto scouts with a Standard SMG Advanced Recon Commando's (A.R.C's) --- Yeah, you don't want to mess with us.
Cosgar ParagonX 7264	Posted - 2013.11.05 02:47:00 - [162] - Quote Arc-08 wrote: Laurent Cazaderon wrote: To be fair, TTK is quite short only with a few weapons. Well with the AR to be more accurate. I've been using the gallente rifle for most of my time playing dust and i could kill pretty quickly. Since i moved to assault scrambler rifle, i find it way longer (too long tbh), even with 2 damage mods. While i still get killed in a heartbeat by any GAR. Why ? probably because of the insane lack of recoil on AR which makes it a weapon that delivers, on the BF, a way higher DPS than the rest of the weapons out there. But when i face a heavy with a HMG, i often say to myself i should have died way quicker. Same goes when fighting 1 vs 1 with another ASCR user. Obviously, i'm leaving FG out of the equation. So yeah, let's not mistake overall TTK and weapon specific TTK. That isn't entirely true. Yes it has some truth but aim assist ruins things, earlier today for example, i was in a proto minmatar assault, against a standard heavy with an hmg, he was standing on stairs above me and didn't start firing his gun until he had about 200 HP left. Pre aim assist he would have missed nearly all of his shots because the barrel of his gun was pointed above my head, however with aim assist nearly all of the bullets counted as headshots so i died from his adv HMG (me having full health 500 shield 200 armor aprox) and ended up dying in under 2 seconds before i could even get another 5 shots to get the kill off. (using a duvolle) Same applies to dropships, and scout LAV's, and scouts, and heavies. TTK is to short, if you have a proto assault suit, you can get headshot by a charged up scrambler rifle, then any random mlt weapon can finish you off with a handfull of shots. I belive that what the OP is trying to say is that MLT gear is too effective against prototype gear. The META LEVEL of suits is supposed to give resistance against weapons that are lower than it's meta level, if just a tiny bit. I can 1v1 any proto assault or logi with a blueprint MLT assault rifle. I've taken out proto scouts with a Standard SMG This shouldn't be about MLT vs PRO, but overall "how much time do I have to react to this?" There's no tactics in Dust anymore, everyone is stuck into this soloist mentality and buffer tanking just to survive that extra 0.03 seconds. When's the last time you've seen someone purely shield tank, let alone not fully stack on plates. This puts way too much importance of whoever has the most HP should win this duel over teamwork governing over killstreaks. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2960	Posted - 2013.11.05 04:16:00 - [163] - Quote Cosgar wrote: This shouldn't be about MLT vs PRO, but overall "how much time do I have to react to this?" There's no tactics in Dust anymore, everyone is stuck into this soloist mentality and buffer tanking just to survive that extra 0.03 seconds. When's the last time you've seen someone purely shield tank, let alone not fully stack on plates. This puts way too much importance of whoever has the most HP should win this duel and kill streaks being more prevalent than teamwork. That's the gist of it. I'd disagree with Laurent about it being AR-specific as well. You can cut people down with any fast firing weapon very very quickly, though I think the AR in particular lends itself to doing that with no skills (I find gameplay with an Exile and 0 sp invested to be easier than with many weapons I've skilled into). Avoiding being a "twitch" shooter is about giving time to react and lengthening encounters. If the only "tactics" are made when you fit your suit and not on the battlefield then it's not a tactical game - it's tactical dress-up. It's about making choices aside from damage mods or stacking hp meaningful, because that situation is forced currently by the need for 1 more sec, or killing a half-second faster. People with massive armor and shields don't "tank" damage really - people need cover or they die. Consider the implications of that. Strafing back and forth around a corner for pot-shots because more than a second of fire will kill you. That's twitch gameplay or that's a cover-based shooter; those are things dust isn't supposed to be you would think. Dust would "seem" to owe a larger debt to something like an MMO strategy where a tank can actually... tank, and be healed/supported by a logistics or two. In the former case, you make a decision like "Oh! There's a guy... shoot!", where in latter you see something requiring more teamwork and strategy. This shouldn't be a game where a lonewolf with an AR and kills everyone. That's the CoD model of twitch and shoot, bunny hop, boom - where teamwork is often incidental. Showing up at the same time in the same place is enough for it to be called teamwork. In that scenario, the time investment and skilltree is irrelevant to the point where you need to question why it even exists.
Cosgar ParagonX 7354	Posted - 2013.11.05 20:51:00 - [164] - Quote Haven't played 1.6 yet. But judging by the top threads in general discussion, I don't think I want to. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2981	Posted - 2013.11.05 21:04:00 - [165] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Haven't played 1.6 yet. But judging by the top threads in general discussion, I don't think I want to. Word on the street from some corp-mates in irc was TTK might be shorter now.
Doshneil Antaro Dem Durrty Boyz Public Disorder. 146	Posted - 2013.11.05 21:04:00 - [166] - Quote While I agree that the AR desperately needs to have some serious kick to address the aim assist+hit detection, there are still other weapons that have insane TTK. The scrambler rifle is skill based more so than the AR, but I die just as quickly to it, and faster if I am using a heavy suit. I use an advanced heavy with proto hmg, And my time to live even in close quarters even with today's patch is not much more than using a std medium suit when going against the scrambler or AR.
Meeko Fent Expert Intervention Caldari State 1373	Posted - 2013.11.05 21:06:00 - [167] - Quote Rollback 10% DMG buff that was applied, and issue resolved. TTK issue, resolved. Meeko's Novelty Shop Opening Soon! We (will)sell all the novelty items you desire! Really! King of Uncertainty.
Doshneil Antaro Dem Durrty Boyz Public Disorder. 146	Posted - 2013.11.05 21:10:00 - [168] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Rollback 10% DMG buff that was applied, and issue resolved. TTK issue, resolved. Except for sniper rifles and hmg. Those weapons are weak sauce as is.
KA24DERT Pure Innocence. EoN. 243	Posted - 2013.11.05 21:37:00 - [169] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Rollback 10% DMG buff that was applied, and issue resolved. TTK issue, resolved. Dude, No. Break out a calculator and look at the different weapons. Nothing needs a nerf right now more than the AR. And 10% to the AR won't do anything noticeable, start at 30% damage and it'll begin to make a difference.
Cosgar ParagonX 7370	Posted - 2013.11.06 02:26:00 - [170] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Cosgar wrote: Haven't played 1.6 yet. But judging by the top threads in general discussion, I don't think I want to. Word on the street from some corp-mates in irc was TTK might be shorter now. Oh yeah, totally running BPOs and starter fits until this gets sorted out. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 6926	Posted - 2013.11.06 06:37:00 - [171] - Quote Weapons with overheat would be effectively nerfed if TTK was lowered since they would need to fire longer to do the same amount of damage, I still support it, but something would have to be done to adjust for that. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads Gû¦Gû+
abarkrishna The Elysian Knights 33	Posted - 2013.11.06 07:36:00 - [172] - Quote If the DPS is around 600 for every gun and most peoples total HP is 600 you have a problem.
hgghyujh Expert Intervention Caldari State 158	Posted - 2013.11.06 08:57:00 - [173] - Quote bump
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2986	Posted - 2013.11.06 13:07:00 - [174] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: Cosgar wrote: Haven't played 1.6 yet. But judging by the top threads in general discussion, I don't think I want to. Word on the street from some corp-mates in irc was TTK might be shorter now. Oh yeah, totally running BPOs and starter fits until this gets sorted out. Since the Triple SP event is of the WP-only variety, I figured I'd just sit out for awhile.
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 116	Posted - 2013.11.06 13:18:00 - [175] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Rollback 10% DMG buff that was applied, and issue resolved. TTK issue, resolved. A lot of weapons wasn't changed by the Hit detection so why they should be nerfed ? And if all weapons get 10% nerf. Then weapons affected by the Hit detection will still be more powerful than others.... Right now i agree with Laurent. Assault Rifle got a too big DPS with too much accuracy. And i think than all the weapons with high RoF got an HUGE buff with the hit detection issues. Only them should be changed. (Exept HMG)
Mia Romani Nexus Marines 25	Posted - 2013.11.06 13:45:00 - [176] - Quote abarkrishna wrote: If the DPS is around 600 for every gun and most peoples total HP is 600 you have a problem. Spot on. It sounds like pre 1.6 we just weren't able to apply full DPS to targets due to hit detection. Now it seems we can, and so now we have a (bigger) problem. Interstellar Crossroads
Soraya Xel Violent Intervention Top Men. 734	Posted - 2013.11.06 15:02:00 - [177] - Quote Time to kill has been reduced (reducing skill of gunplay) every single patch since 1.4. An increase in hit detection should be coupled with a decrease in damage on gun stats. At this point, damage needs to be nerfed 30% across the board. Fine tuning can happen once TTK is long enough that fine tuning matters. Top Men. - The DUST Arm of the CFC www.dust-gents.com Recruiting corporations and players now!
Booker DaFooker Ancient Exiles 159	Posted - 2013.11.06 19:08:00 - [178] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Time to kill has been reduced (reducing skill of gunplay) every single patch since 1.4. An increase in hit detection should be coupled with a decrease in damage on gun stats. At this point, damage needs to be nerfed 30% across the board. Fine tuning can happen once TTK is long enough that fine tuning matters. That's the spirit, 30% minimum in my view, make this game properly unique the way it should be Bullshit Baffles Brains
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division 200	Posted - 2013.11.06 19:14:00 - [179] - Quote Love it. Should we start a petition on this? CCP wants me to specialize? But there's so many weapons! 'Unwise SP spending mode activated'
Vell0cet Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 512	Posted - 2013.11.06 19:25:00 - [180] - Quote After playing a few matches in 1.6 I completely agree that TTK is seriously out-of-whack. I think CCP should immediately remove the Uprising 10% damage buff, and then consider following it up with several further nerfs. TTK was slightly too short in 1.5 (but not all that far from the sweet spot IMO). As it stands now, the game is painful to play. It's negating the entire raison d'+¬tre of gear, SP's, tactics, teamwork etc. Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea

CLONE117 planetary retaliation organisation 455	Posted - 2013.11.06 19:44:00 - [181] - Quote ttk seems pretty long for majority of the battles/duals i end up in. only time its cut short is when im oh... surrounded by an enemy team. i can kill a group of players to survive the encounter but its only when they dont all start ganging up and firing at me all at once. effective use of cover should lengthen your lifespan, as thats how i feel it should be. charging forward in to gunfire should result in death majority of the time. i dont see that as a massive problem. since the guys in proto have more hp than those with mlt suits. alot more. which is one reason i see zerg tactics to be so successful where one squad in full proto can just set down several uplinks near an objective then run forward like a group of rambos gunzblazing. yeah it seems to work out great. until some1 on the other team finds a way to set up a killzone for the normally overwhelming force of proto bears. most ppl would probably chase a single player from one end of the map to the other. we need the ability to kill our enemies quickly. but we also need the ability to survive as long as possible in a confrontation with our enemies on the battlefield. some players stack several damage mods just to cut down those who stacked several shield extenders and armor plates. the game is not halo where every1 has the exact same level of equipment at their disposal. its dust. we have different levels of equipment. different variants of equipment. and ultimately different playstyles. everything should not be lone wolf based or completely squad based. i might be able to secure an objective by clearing it of enemies will solo. but id need help if i intend to capture the objective. it seems that most ppl on these forums forget to mention the potential problems that would most likely arise from stuff like this. due to the tunnel vision rage that so many of us tend to suffer from. i feel the gameplay right now with the proper tactics can beat the zerg rush. but so many are too lazy to try. theres things only a lone wolf could pull off and then theres stuff only teamwork can accomplish. both will most likely work towards the same end reult on the battlefield. no reason to massively penalize the guy who is outgunned. ____________________________________________________________________________________________ 100% chance of trolls is to be expected.
Beta Bob The Omega Strain 0	Posted - 2013.11.06 20:52:00 - [182] - Quote Archbot wrote: I have to agree with you. Sometimes I can't even react because I die so fast. To damned true - When I started playing Dust 514 it was fun and in closed beta, Now? Sorry I must refuse to play it. In dust you should not be a soft target you have shields armour and mods that boost those things and resists - My skills have maxed out for health and shields yet I get one shot a lot that is wrong totally wrong. Even going against someone with max damage skills one should be able to fight them if they have max health skills that is balance - That is what this game needs is balance snipers should be able to head shot kill an enemy but in close combat with machine guns fired from the hip should not be one shot kills no matter the skills. for those that TL;DR In summary - Balance is needed - max health skills vs max gun skills should even out to a fair battle not - bang dead
Cosgar ParagonX 7407	Posted - 2013.11.06 20:59:00 - [183] - Quote I just want those intense, drawn out battles of attrition over objectives again. Longer TTK made things more strategic when you factored in how you fit your suit or used different fittings to adapt to what your opponents are using. Now, all you need is an automatic weapon and aim-assist to go on a kill streak just by hip firing. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Booker DaFooker Ancient Exiles 161	Posted - 2013.11.06 21:24:00 - [184] - Quote Cosgar wrote: I just want those intense, drawn out battles of attrition over objectives again. Longer TTK made things more strategic when you factored in how you fit your suit or used different fittings to adapt to what your opponents are using. Now, all you need is an automatic weapon and aim-assist to go on a kill streak just by hip firing. this. A million times this Bullshit Baffles Brains
CLONE117 planetary retaliation organisation 455	Posted - 2013.11.06 21:25:00 - [185] - Quote intense drawn out battles... i seem to have plenty of those these days. i call it trying to slow down the rate of progress for the enemy team during a fracking pubstomp.
Driftward Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 502	Posted - 2013.11.06 21:37:00 - [186] - Quote From a scout perspective. The low TTK is destroying our play style. Any of our potential playstyles (except perhaps as snipers, which are played better as assaults or logis anyways). If I sneak up behind someone I should be able to drop them. The hit detection fix for the shotgun is pretty nice actually. Worked a lot better for me this morning. Unfortunately, the militia suited players I was trying to kill (from behind, nice and sneaky) just turned around and blapped me with one burst of a militia AR in a wild spray of hip-fired rounds. I used to be able to run and hide before getting killed if I got caught out while being sneaky. I have no recourse now. Less than a second to die. My speed mods, my armor buffs, my shields all count for nothing. I tried every variation of suits that I have, from my proto armor buffed scout to my proto kin cats stuffed scout. They all died equally well to the militia AR wielding Frontline assault suit. My typical K/D ratio was sitting between 2-5 each match. I played extraordinarily well to get a 1.4 K/D ratio with 1.6 patch. Some might say HTFU. But when I can't even survive a 0.5 second burst.....no playstyle is going to work no matter how "hard" I play. I say, why should I HAVE to play anything other than the scout? Everyone wielding ARs just isn't what Dust is all about. Diversity is the name of the game. Unfortunately, that's not what the current TTK mechanism is driving us to.
Arc-08 Knights Of Ender Public Disorder. 123	Posted - 2013.11.07 00:56:00 - [187] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Rollback 10% DMG buff that was applied, and issue resolved. TTK issue, resolved. Dude, No. Break out a calculator and look at the different weapons. Nothing needs a nerf right now more than the AR. And 10% to the AR won't do anything noticeable, start at 30% damage and it'll begin to make a difference. As much as it truly pains me to say it, as much as i fought the AR nerf because i knew they weren't OP. Yes the time is now to nerf the AR right now Or CCP could just take the easier and more efficient in the long run path and just remove aim assist. The only reason that AR's are so powerful is because the beautiful weapon of mass destruction that is the gallentean AR + Aim assist + More people than ever using the AR = AR being more OP than all of the other weapons that are also OP.... Mega OP??? Thing is, with the AR you just can't miss unless you are just a complete noob. Advanced Recon Commando's (A.R.C's) --- Yeah, you don't want to mess with us.
SmokeyJay KillaKush Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.11.07 01:58:00 - [188] - Quote Aim assist has got be the biggest joke in the game so far.... FPS with aim assist? Sorry to say but manual aim is a skill. The TTK is way too fast. I agree with others that armor and shields should be more effective. If your weapon delves at 32.4, then shields/armor should have a resistance against it making the damage less, and damage mods should only have an effect against the resistance in the % listed. Shields should be able to take splash damage better, the flux nades are a great idea where they jack up your shields. The almost 1 stop shop using an AR where the game is based in the future is very generic, AND I know that it shoots plasma, but there is no real variety. To compete even I use an AR, but it is the only way to compete.
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1333	Posted - 2013.11.07 04:38:00 - [189] - Quote I just ran a domination match where the other team ran duvolles with damage mods and blitzed our redline at the start. Nobody on our team could advance anywhere because of a complete lack of cover. The game was essentially over in the first 60 seconds. This is what low TTK is doing to this game. Their team lost 10 clones, ours lost 150. Every match I've been in since yesterday has gone this way. Sometimes with me on the side that is stomping the life out of the other team, or me being on the side that can't leave our spawn. I've been very, very forgiving of the flaws in this game. If I wasn't the friggin ceo of my corp I would be done. I'm sure as hell not going to be worrying about reaching my cap this week for the event, because I'd rather play something fun. I mean seriously...a domination match where the other team controlled the point in the first 60 seconds and never lost control of it...and they won on clones. That is how ridiculously fast people are dying. This is the kind of thing that kills player counts.
KA24DERT Pure Innocence. EoN. 250	Posted - 2013.11.07 06:45:00 - [190] - Quote Arc-08 wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Rollback 10% DMG buff that was applied, and issue resolved. TTK issue, resolved. Dude, No. Break out a calculator and look at the different weapons. Nothing needs a nerf right now more than the AR. And 10% to the AR won't do anything noticeable, start at 30% damage and it'll begin to make a difference. As much as it truly pains me to say it, as much as i fought the AR nerf because i knew they weren't OP. Yes the time is now to nerf the AR right now Or CCP could just take the easier and more efficient in the long run path and just remove aim assist. The only reason that AR's are so powerful is because the beautiful weapon of mass destruction that is the gallentean AR + Aim assist + More people than ever using the AR = AR being more OP than all of the other weapons that are also OP.... Mega OP??? Thing is, with the AR you just can't miss unless you are just a complete noob. Yeah, if I were to tweak things for balance, I would definitely disable Auto Aim before any nerf would be applied. It's the correct decision to make right now, and CCP needs to rip it out like a dirty band-aid ASAP.

Text Grant Death Firm. 197	Posted - 2013.11.07 09:10:00 - [191] - Quote Agreed. Remove 10% buff from every weapon
Repe Susi Rautaleijona Top Men. 757	Posted - 2013.11.07 09:51:00 - [192] - Quote Booker DaFooker wrote: Cosgar wrote: I just want those intense, drawn out battles of attrition over objectives again. Longer TTK made things more strategic when you factored in how you fit your suit or used different fittings to adapt to what your opponents are using. Now, all you need is an automatic weapon and aim-assist to go on a kill streak just by hip firing. this. A million times this This has been the main attraction of the game for me. We need it back. Remember, remember, the 30th of november
Aye Ayer Nyain Chan 0	Posted - 2013.11.07 09:53:00 - [193] - Quote I've been loving that I could make a difference with using shield and armor modules. But now these modules only make a tiny difference. Once an enemy hits me, my HP are vanished in a second even though I'm tanking a lot of shield or armor. I don't like this situation personally because it just looks like some other FPS titles and I don't think this is what this game should be.
Arc-08 Knights Of Ender Public Disorder. 123	Posted - 2013.11.07 12:17:00 - [194] - Quote see i understand why proto's were easier to kill for a while. It was because too many of the big corps were just dominating pub matches. but we can't worry about that now because we have matchmaking. So now lower level guys don't ever have to worry about getting faced up against a ton of proto bears. But now a proto can kill another proto waaaayyy too fast. And the only time that any lower level guy would have to face a high level squad is in factional warfare, but that's the risk you take to fight for your nation. So make it so that proto's are better, advanced are better. because matchmaking will make it so that MLT guys don't have to run against proto guys, but that proto guys can't get 1v1 by a MLT guy who gets a lucky shot and his 10 k isk suit kills your 180 k isk suit. Or just take away aim assist and make meta levels work like they are supposed to. (Hi ayer) Advanced Recon Commando's (A.R.C's) --- Yeah, you don't want to mess with us.
KA24DERT Pure Innocence. EoN. 250	Posted - 2013.11.07 17:21:00 - [195] - Quote Text Grant wrote: Agreed. Remove 10% buff from every weapon No. Not every weapon needs a nerf.
Booker DaFooker Ancient Exiles 162	Posted - 2013.11.07 20:25:00 - [196] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Text Grant wrote: Agreed. Remove 10% buff from every weapon No. Not every weapon needs a nerf. Its not about nerfing weapons, it's about reducing TTK, the same effect could be achieved with a buff to HP I suppose. This is supposed to be "the thinking man's shooter" (I know, what a giggle right?). There are plenty of shooters out there that I could choose to play if I wanted to drop people in a flash and most of them do twitch shooting better than Dust. Give weapons more recoil, slow down rate of fire, reduce dps accross the board, buff HP and I'm sure there are better ideas from people cleverer than I am that could solve this issue, perhaps a mixture of all of them would do the trick. I almost dont care how it's done, just give me back my Dust 514 Bullshit Baffles Brains
NewOldMan KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 61	Posted - 2013.11.07 23:19:00 - [197] - Quote I also think the TTK is too fast. I was playing around with my fully proto gallente logi last night (670 armor, 100 something shields) and got dropped by a militia assault rifle from 40m away in less than 4 seconds. I was like "What?"
KA24DERT Pure Innocence. EoN. 250	Posted - 2013.11.08 16:26:00 - [198] - Quote Booker DaFooker wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Text Grant wrote: Agreed. Remove 10% buff from every weapon No. Not every weapon needs a nerf. Its not about nerfing weapons, it's about reducing TTK, the same effect could be achieved with a buff to HP I suppose. This is supposed to be "the thinking man's shooter" (I know, what a giggle right?). There are plenty of shooters out there that I could choose to play if I wanted to drop people in a flash and most of them do twitch shooting better than Dust. Give weapons more recoil, slow down rate of fire, reduce dps accross the board, buff HP and I'm sure there are better ideas from people cleverer than I am that could solve this issue, perhaps a mixture of all of them would do the trick. I almost dont care how it's done, just give me back my Dust 514 The better ideas is to analyze every weapon and apply nerfs selectively. The AR and Scrambler are among the highest DPS light weapons in the game, by a wide margin. An across the board DPS reduction will make non-rifle weapons unviable.
Haerr Molon Labe PC RISE of LEGION 91	Posted - 2013.11.08 16:46:00 - [199] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Booker DaFooker wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Text Grant wrote: Agreed. Remove 10% buff from every weapon No. Not every weapon needs a nerf. Its not about nerfing weapons, it's about reducing TTK, the same effect could be achieved with a buff to HP I suppose. This is supposed to be "the thinking man's shooter" (I know, what a giggle right?). There are plenty of shooters out there that I could choose to play if I wanted to drop people in a flash and most of them do twitch shooting better than Dust. Give weapons more recoil, slow down rate of fire, reduce dps accross the board, buff HP and I'm sure there are better ideas from people cleverer than I am that could solve this issue, perhaps a mixture of all of them would do the trick. I almost dont care how it's done, just give me back my Dust 514 The better ideas is to analyze every weapon and apply nerfs selectively. The AR and Scrambler are among the highest DPS light weapons in the game, by a wide margin. An across the board DPS reduction will make non-rifle weapons unviable. This. +1 Is the breach shotgun working as inteded?
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3023	Posted - 2013.11.08 17:16:00 - [200] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Text Grant wrote: Agreed. Remove 10% buff from every weapon No. Not every weapon needs a nerf. I'd like to say that I don't think you're wrong. I suggested the 10% debuff as an interim fix. Here's how I explained it recently to someone else: I don't think of a 10% debuff as a magic fix for all that ails us, just a means of making a relatively minor adjustment that could be checked afterwards for differences in gameplay. Some of the issues still relate till weapon performance in general, which tends not to get addressed as much. The lack of recoil/muzzle climb/dispersion when ADSing with an AR for example is part of what makes it so easy to land tight groupings with no skill (SP invested). The nature of many of the in-game maps dictates combat be at a certain ranges, and as long as those are relatively tight, the AR being the shortest rifle still gives it a command over most weapons in that range. This comes up in the newer research city installation, where people are rarely far enough away that anything longer range than an AR would be needed. There's a lot of performance tweaks you could make there (and to other weapons), and I don't think just opting for the easiest global solution will result in the best game. However, given the relative complexity of the issue and the continuing tweaks to hit detection, a percentage across the board damage debuff seems like a good weather test of how much something like global damage output accounts for the current TTK (as opposed to something like hit detection, AA, etc.). We can all agree that we wouldn't want hit detection to be worse, but if all the issues are coming from that direction it's a pretty case-by-case basis adjustment that's going to have to be done to account for TTK changes within each weapon. I already suggested the AR could have some changes, but there's weapons that have benefited more than others generally and you wouldn't want to be too hasty with it. 10% is interim. Competent balancing is required long-term. I trust CCP slightly more with respect to applying a global 10% nerf than I do nuanced weapon balancing on the fly since many of the issues I pointed out with the AR have existed and been pointed out long long ago. The bottom line is the game is extremely not-fun to play as-is, and a 10% debuff could be rolled out more quickly as more intelligent per-weapon changes are made over time (since that sort of balancing is apparently time-consuming). Join my cult.

Cosgar ParagonX 7527	Posted - 2013.11.08 17:28:00 - [201] - Quote This game has always been balanced around bad hit detection. Untitl now, it's never been as near perfect as this. We may be looking at a massive re-work in 1.7 and beyond. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Haerr Molon Labe PC RISE of LEGION 91	Posted - 2013.11.08 17:31:00 - [202] - Quote Cosgar wrote: This game has always been balanced around bad hit detection. Untitl now, it's never been as near perfect as this. We may be looking at a massive re-work in 1.7 and beyond. Still hopeful, eh? ;) Me too! :) Is the breach shotgun working as inteded?
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3030	Posted - 2013.11.10 08:26:00 - [203] - Quote It's difficult to fully extricate hit-detection from AA, but there a was combination of engine/rendering related lag-type issues as well in the early uprising days. Join my cult.
Cosgar ParagonX 7631	Posted - 2013.11.11 05:25:00 - [204] - Quote Haerr wrote: Cosgar wrote: This game has always been balanced around bad hit detection. Untitl now, it's never been as near perfect as this. We may be looking at a massive re-work in 1.7 and beyond. Still hopeful, eh? ;) Me too! :) Had a moment of clarity before I did a rage uninstall. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Talos Vagheitan 174	Posted - 2013.11.11 06:04:00 - [205] - Quote Please see this post: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=120621&find=unread Just maybe crazy enough to work... Who cares what some sniper has to say
Timothy Reaper WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL 558	Posted - 2013.11.11 06:05:00 - [206] - Quote Bumped for justice! Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. Mark Twain
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3043	Posted - 2013.11.11 15:53:00 - [207] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: Please see this post: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=120621&find=unread Just maybe crazy enough to work... I like the notion of adjusting the AA, but as a sole solution, here are my concerns with that: Much of the current issues aren't JUST AA-related. Take the most recent update. TTK went down a little bit more, but AA wasn't adjusted again. Hit-detection has seen upgrades though across several patches (including the most recent one). Even without AA, the fact that something like AR can be super-accurate when ADS with negligible recoil, dispersion, etc. means it loses next to no DPS when being operated properly - and that DPS is very very high. Adjusting AA would might keep newbie players from massacring people with MLT weapons, but skilled users would still be able to drop people very easily just because of the changes in hit-detection. This is one of the things that's more true of the AR and Ass-Scrambler than many of the other weapons. The output on the SMG might be nerfed sufficiently with just an AA adjustment, I'm not sure. Anyhow, the thrust of my point is that it is a confluence of issues causing TTK issues, which is why I'd be hesitant to endorse a thread that sums it up as "AR problems" or "AA problems." I think it's a combination of hit-detection, AA, and weapon qualities/traits (like recoil/dispersion/etc.) that aren't balanced against the former that are causing the current state of affairs. It's running into certain weapons that are overly influenced by these problems that makes it evident. Almost any weapon can benefit from the AA of course, and I think that's why it became such a poster-child for gun-game issues after 1.4. However, hit detection and weapon traits (like RoF, etc.) play a larger role in making weapons like the AR so godly. Join my cult.
Talos Vagheitan 180	Posted - 2013.11.11 17:17:00 - [208] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Talos Vagheitan wrote: Please see this post: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=120621&find=unread Just maybe crazy enough to work... I like the notion of adjusting the AA, but as a sole solution, here are my concerns with that: Much of the current issues aren't JUST AA-related. Take the most recent update. TTK went down a little bit more, but AA wasn't adjusted again. Hit-detection has seen upgrades though across several patches (including the most recent one). Even without AA, the fact that something like AR can be super-accurate when ADS with negligible recoil, dispersion, etc. means it loses next to no DPS when being operated properly - and that DPS is very very high. Adjusting AA would might keep newbie players from massacring people with MLT weapons, but skilled users would still be able to drop people very easily just because of the changes in hit-detection. This is one of the things that's more true of the AR and Ass-Scrambler than many of the other weapons. The output on the SMG might be nerfed sufficiently with just an AA adjustment, I'm not sure. Anyhow, the thrust of my point is that it is a confluence of issues causing TTK issues, which is why I'd be hesitant to endorse a thread that sums it up as "AR problems" or "AA problems." I think it's a combination of hit-detection, AA, and weapon qualities/traits (like recoil/dispersion/etc.) that aren't balanced against the former that are causing the current state of affairs. It's running into certain weapons that are overly influenced by these problems that makes it evident. Almost any weapon can benefit from the AA of course, and I think that's why it became such a poster-child for gun-game issues after 1.4. However, hit detection and weapon traits (like RoF, etc.) play a larger role in making weapons like the AR so godly. Your right that a lot of factors have reduced TTK, and my suggestion isn't necessarily trying to fix that. Lower TTK isn't necessarily a bad thing. It may just be the direction the game is going. And about skilled players losing no DPS when operating their weapon properly...thats the point. Who cares what some sniper has to say
Arc-08 Knights Of Ender Public Disorder. 123	Posted - 2013.11.11 22:06:00 - [209] - Quote i was actually suggesting that it gets added on with Matchmaking. Noobs get to have Auto aim... Anybody under 4 million SP gets "aimbot" as it is now. Then if you have under say 9 million, you get a slightly nerfed Aim "assist" where it assists your aim not where your bullet goes. Then if you have more than that you don't get to have any of that and it is pure skill. Then they can make it so that in factional warfare everybody gets "Aim assist" since matchmaking doesn't apply to factional warfare. Another way you could fix it is to make it where there are the 3 tiers of AA "aimbot" Aim assist, or Off. Based on what you have your setting on determines how much damage you do. If you have "aimbot' you do much less damage than if you have it Off. You trade getting lots of hits on them for damage. If you think of it this way your central computer in your dropsuit is focused on aiming rather than focusing on the damage output of the weapon. Or you could just make us all happy and get rid of "AIMBOT" for everybody except maybe give the option of having it on for the noobs Advanced Recon Commando's (A.R.C's) --- Yeah, you don't want to mess with us.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3050	Posted - 2013.11.14 07:16:00 - [210] - Quote Not to "defend" AA, but wasn't there a Dev post about latency inherent in their server-side hit-detection, etc? It was something to the effect of needing a certain degree of AA server-side to compensate for the issues of players' client not always giving an accurate view of things. That's part of what I meant when I talked about the difficulty in extricating AA from hit-detection as an issue. It's not clear to me how much the two are enmeshed at the moment. Join my cult.

Meeko Fent Commando Perkone Caldari State 1526	Posted - 2013.11.14 14:38:00 - [211] - Quote Bump. Can't let this get drowned to the back page without a Dev response. For the State! For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy Replication Warrior
PEW JACKSON s i n g u l a r i t y 98	Posted - 2013.11.14 17:25:00 - [212] - Quote If CCP made it to where I could strafe as a scout again, that'd be great.......
Eskel Bondfree DUST University Ivy League 168	Posted - 2013.11.14 17:40:00 - [213] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Not to "defend" AA, but wasn't there a Dev post about latency inherent in their server-side hit-detection, etc? It was something to the effect of needing a certain degree of AA server-side to compensate for the issues of players' client not always giving an accurate view of things. Interesting. That could be a possible explanation for why aiming with a mouse feels some how bad at the moment. Most of the time I feel like other poeples bullets hit two times as often as my own. Then sometimes, when I start to strafe for aiming instead of using the mouse (which feels weird for me as PC gamer), bullets tend to hit much better and people go down really fast.
Pisidon Gmen Ivory Vanguard 5	Posted - 2013.11.15 03:21:00 - [214] - Quote i so agree the dps is to high on meany weapons making shield mods pointless but the AR seems to b the worst with high fire rate take the malita assalt rifle 750rps with 34 damage thats like 400 dps with no skills no damage mods. drop damage onAR they shoot too far and too fast to b that high or make sheald and armor mods that help protect us adding like 100 toto 150 to sheid extenders would make them worth using as it is they add all most nothing to the ttk and recharges dont have any use do to i am dead in 1 to 2 sec and they don't start recharging b4 iam dead lets talk skills what good dose it do to add 5% armor most suits even on a heavy thats only 20 to30 armor so 5 levals adds 100 to 150 armor so u last fore 3 to 5 more AR rounds
Cosgar ParagonX 7781	Posted - 2013.11.15 03:34:00 - [215] - Quote Relevant I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3053	Posted - 2013.11.15 13:28:00 - [216] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Relevant Ahh... 1.6 has definitely not improved things. Join my cult.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3053	Posted - 2013.11.17 15:52:00 - [217] - Quote I like to keep checking in here, but I heard that the word on the street is that it won't be addressed in anyway in 1.7. So, I suppose I'll be looking to see if anything gets changed in 1.8 later. As for now, I've sort of dropped playing because the game is just... not the sort of game I'd want to play - it's something else entirely. I was playing Borderlands 2, ME3 multiplayer, and EVE recently. I was struck a bit I suppose by how encounters change based on the relative strength of the target. In EVE, it's sort of expected that lighter craft don't do the damage to take down heavier craft. Battles between ships can be "relatively" time-consuming. ME3 has shooting grunts mostly, but the more dangerous enemies and mooks on higher difficulty can still take over a clip easily to down. Borderlands 2 kinda sticks you with a lot of strafing, firing, and reloading to take down individual targets. A character built in a certain way might be able to take a lot of punishment. I guess this all goes to say that I think I find those games (with longer TTK, to put it in other terms) more interesting combat-wise. Dust I think had more of this "protracted encounter" dynamic previously, especially on the higher end of player skill and gear. It now has more in common with a game like CoD where tanking is never a concern. It's very much about twitch sort of play. With AA, I think speed/reflexes aren't a big factor, it's mostly finding someone first and having the gear. If the devs would prefer that Dust be that kind of game, "Like CoD" where it's basically about quick bursts of fire killing pretty much anything with shorter encounters - I guess that's a design decision on their end? The audiences for the two types of games are often quite different though. It's a different type of game. CoD has a certain instant-gratification and very fast gameplay aspect: you fire, you kill, you die, you're back, repeat. It's not a thoughtful game. I think Dust and games that it might've been associated with previously (EVE, other MMOs, etc.) are meant to be based on more strategic gameplay that has longer encounters and incorporates things like "tanking", "healing", "supply", and "scouting". Those things are ultimately rendered irrelevant by gameplay analogous to CoD in Dust. Either design decision is valid I guess, though I frankly wouldn't see the point in training skills for marginal fraction-of-a-second gains over the course of months for a CoD style game. If Dust is moving in that direction as it seems to have been in the past few months, I know I don't want to play it. That said, I imagine there are a lot of people that prefer not to think about mechanics in the same way you might consider taking down a raid boss in an MMO (tanking, healing, support, builds, resists, etc.) as opposed to the more frantic/mindless process of a CoD-type game. So, failing actually addressing this topic in a meaningful way, here's what I'd ask: What is the ideal vision (after adjusting everything) for the gameplay in Dust? Is it meant to be a twitch-sort of game? Do you see it having more common with something like EVE/WoW/Everquest with respect to group dynamics and length/type of encounters, or something more like a Battlefield/Battlefront/CoD? If you'd call it a "hybrid" of MMO and Team-shooter, which do you intend to have it leaning towards more? What you intend the game to ultimately be would make the decision about whether or not I should care about the game much easier. Join my cult.
Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 507	Posted - 2013.11.17 18:19:00 - [218] - Quote I suggest a AA removal hot fix. Let the guy shooting at the stars shoot at the stars and let the guy shooting near to my head miss! *One Universe...with friendly fire and Open World Game Play for all!*
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3062	Posted - 2013.11.19 13:15:00 - [219] - Quote Bleeeaaaaarggghhhhh Join my cult.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3066	Posted - 2013.11.21 12:41:00 - [220] - Quote You know as a certain sort of tactical/etc. gets tired of logging in, I can't help but wonder if the average player opinion on forums and so on becomes skewed towards the demographic that prefers the twitch style. Join my cult.

Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3071	Posted - 2013.11.22 12:46:00 - [221] - Quote And so it goes. Join my cult.
Fremder V1 Armed And Aimless 5	Posted - 2013.11.22 14:29:00 - [222] - Quote From someone who played Dust regularly since the beta, and now only visits game and forum sporadically, mostly because of the drastically reduced TTK: I too would appreciate some sort of fix. Or at least a statement if the devs see it as an issue. Is more feedback helpfull? Does it make sense to keep lurking the forums in hope for related news? If not, those things do waste a lot of time for a lot of people right now... Come on community-staff-person, whose job it is to read this: Time to shine!
Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 526	Posted - 2013.11.22 14:32:00 - [223] - Quote I had a chat with Hans about this. He indicated that devs are looking at the issue. I'm not entirely sure why they haven't responded yet. *One Universe...with friendly fire and Open World Game Play for all!*
Fremder V1 Armed And Aimless 5	Posted - 2013.11.23 20:06:00 - [224] - Quote Sounds about as vague as it can get, but by now i'm happy about any info. Thanks for the effort, Draco.
Orca Amsel Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 635	Posted - 2013.11.24 02:56:00 - [225] - Quote Nov 12 21:20:30 Orca_Amsel[CCP]Saberwing; any update on the low TTK? Nov 12 21:21:39 [CCP]SaberwingOrca_Amsel: No, and Wolfman is off sick I believe. The low TTK probably won't get tweaked in the immediate immediate future as we're gearing up for 1.7 release, but is definitely something being monitored, so don't worry.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3074	Posted - 2013.11.24 03:21:00 - [226] - Quote Orca Amsel wrote: Nov 12 21:20:30 Orca_Amsel[CCP]Saberwing; any update on the low TTK? Nov 12 21:21:39 [CCP]SaberwingOrca_Amsel: No, and Wolfman is off sick I believe. The low TTK probably won't get tweaked in the immediate immediate future as we're gearing up for 1.7 release, but is definitely something being monitored, so don't worry. So, if you wanted to wait till next year to play Dust again... Join my cult.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3076	Posted - 2013.11.25 18:05:00 - [227] - Quote It would be nice to see some sort of indication that this is going to be addressed on some sort of timetable. Join my cult.
Orca Amsel Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 639	Posted - 2013.11.25 23:29:00 - [228] - Quote I think if they got rid of wolfman this game would instantly improve.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3080	Posted - 2013.11.25 23:45:00 - [229] - Quote Orca Amsel wrote: I think if they got rid of wolfman this game would instantly improve. I saw he was apparently sick from your IRC-paste. Did he do something else recently? Join my cult.
Orca Amsel Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 639	Posted - 2013.11.26 01:06:00 - [230] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Orca Amsel wrote: I think if they got rid of wolfman this game would instantly improve. I saw he was apparently sick from your IRC-paste. Did he do something else recently? Well it is what he is not doing. TTK has been a problem for over a month and they have not said anything about it.

Arc-08 Knights Of Ender Public Disorder. 134	Posted - 2013.11.26 02:35:00 - [231] - Quote i'm just tired of this crap, i might leave and come back next summer. I respect CCP and i know that they are really trying their hardest but right now it's at a point that i can't play the game I'm betting everything on 1.7 if i can't play my Dropship, (the reason i started this game) then i'll be back later next summer. Advanced Recon Commando's (A.R.C's) --- The most Elite fighting force in the galaxy
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3082	Posted - 2013.11.27 19:42:00 - [232] - Quote TTK got called out for some sort of indeterminate review in the weekly feedback thread, though they linked to the IWS thread in General as opposed to this Feedback thread (not a huge deal, it just makes it seem like they pay less attention to Feedback since this thread has been here over a month longer than the one he made). I guess that makes it a waiting game, and it doesn't seem to imply any particular speed on getting a fix out. Join my cult.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3085	Posted - 2013.12.04 20:35:00 - [233] - Quote Not addressed in 1.7, obviously. However, it bears repeating, and it's likely there'll be some adjustment to the new rifles and adjusted ranges and other changes. Also, I would think the shield extender penalty would be a step in the other direction (though balancing shields and armor is an important goal). Join my cult.
Cosgar ParagonX 8311	Posted - 2013.12.04 20:39:00 - [234] - Quote Thanks for the shield nerf. I was contemplating selling my PS3 to get a PS4 whether Dust is on PS4 or not. This just seals the deal. I'd like to graciously thank you for making the decision so much easier after grinding to get my Assault Mk.0. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Vell0cet SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 660	Posted - 2013.12.05 07:02:00 - [235] - Quote It's been incredibly frustrating that CCP has been so quiet on this problem. It's a game-breaking issue that they appear to not be taking as seriously as they should. Every week since 1.6 has been a real struggle to motivate myself to log in and cap. CCP should have implemented a hot fix within the first week of 1.6, and now it's looking like we won't see any improvements until 1.8 if at all. Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
Cosgar ParagonX 8362	Posted - 2013.12.05 07:06:00 - [236] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: It's been incredibly frustrating that CCP has been so quiet on this problem. It's a game-breaking issue that they appear to not be taking as seriously as they should. Every week since 1.6 has been a real struggle to motivate myself to log in and cap. CCP should have implemented a hot fix within the first week of 1.6, and now it's looking like we won't see any improvements until 1.8 if at all. Simply having Dev opening a topic about it like Foxfour did with PC would go a long way right about now. This silence serves no purpose. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
taxi bastard Minor Trueblood 34	Posted - 2013.12.05 12:55:00 - [237] - Quote I am 50/50 lower TTK is the only thing which new players have going for them atm. it may work both ways admittedly, but if the new player attacks first under the right situation they can win. increasing TTK without gear based battles will just make things worse for them.
Vell0cet SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 663	Posted - 2013.12.05 18:16:00 - [238] - Quote taxi bastard wrote: I am 50/50 lower TTK is the only thing which new players have going for them atm. it may work both ways admittedly, but if the new player attacks first under the right situation they can win. increasing TTK without gear based battles will just make things worse for them. There needs to be an optional 2nd tier academy for new players under 2-5 millionish SP. This would fix the protostomping problem. Breaking the game by making the diversity of fits irrelevant, with the only viable builds being ARs, ScRs, SMGs (and likely the new rifles) with max tank & possibly damage mods is so much worse. Breaking gameplay for everyone is the wrong way to balance the problems with the NPE. Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 269	Posted - 2013.12.06 06:25:00 - [239] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: taxi bastard wrote: I am 50/50 lower TTK is the only thing which new players have going for them atm. it may work both ways admittedly, but if the new player attacks first under the right situation they can win. increasing TTK without gear based battles will just make things worse for them. There needs to be an optional 2nd tier academy for new players under 2-5 millionish SP. This would fix the protostomping problem. Breaking the game by making the diversity of fits irrelevant, with the only viable builds being ARs, ScRs, SMGs (and likely the new rifles) with max tank & possibly damage mods is so much worse. Breaking gameplay for everyone is the wrong way to balance the problems with the NPE. You are correct. You're also hitting closer to the reality of the situation. Just a friendly reminder that the problems are that ARs, ScRs, and SMGs need a 30% damage nerf in their current state. Adding some recoil and removing aim assist is another (better) solution, but good luck ripping that pacifier out from the mouths of the skill-less.
Cosgar ParagonX 8440	Posted - 2013.12.07 02:55:00 - [240] - Quote (Pauses Kingdoms of Amalur) Here's an idea I had on weapon balancing that could help with TTK issues. Not something that's going to magically fix everything, but could be a piece of the puzzle. If anyone good with crunching numbers wants to put in their 0.02 ISK, I'd greatly appreciate it. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"

The-Errorist Closed For Business For All Mankind 372	Posted - 2013.12.08 00:04:00 - [241] - Quote +1000
Orca Amsel Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 641	Posted - 2013.12.08 02:38:00 - [242] - Quote Well this is no surprise. After 2 months of TTK being a problem they still have not collected enough information on it. [CCP]Wolfman> As for TTK weGÇÖre still monitoring the data and we have put more hooks in place to provide us with more accurate information regarding it. With the release of the new weapons in 1.7 and the probable balance updates that will follow weGÇÖll be keeping it in mind
Cosgar ParagonX 8480	Posted - 2013.12.08 02:44:00 - [243] - Quote Orca Amsel wrote: Well this is no surprise. After 2 months of TTK being a problem they still have not collected enough information on it. [CCP]Wolfman> As for TTK weGÇÖre still monitoring the data and we have put more hooks in place to provide us with more accurate information regarding it. With the release of the new weapons in 1.7 and the probable balance updates that will follow weGÇÖll be keeping it in mind Even if they fix TTK, they'll probably drop it back down to CoD levels when a bunch of brats complain about it. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Arc-08 Knights Of Ender Public Disorder. 148	Posted - 2013.12.08 17:02:00 - [244] - Quote who would complain about losing less money, and getting to enjoy whatever kills you do make? but surviving more attacks, that sounds horrible to be able to live to fight another couple minutes and possibly get more kills Arc Troopers (Advanced Recon Commando's) Fiercest warriors in the galaxy
Cosgar ParagonX 8493	Posted - 2013.12.08 17:37:00 - [245] - Quote Arc-08 wrote: who would complain about losing less money, and getting to enjoy whatever kills you do make? but surviving more attacks, that sounds horrible to be able to live to fight another couple minutes and possibly get more kills The kind of people that will dislike any FPS because of this logic: "It doesn't play like COD. I'm good at COD, so why am I bad at this game? It can't be my fault, there must be something wrong with the game. Make this game more like COD!" I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3091	Posted - 2013.12.20 13:16:00 - [246] - Quote So, a whole new world of guns and vehicles now. It's been a couple weeks. How are people feeling about things I wonder? Or has the glitz of "new stuff" sort of glossed over everything? Join my cult.
Cosgar ParagonX 8930	Posted - 2013.12.20 14:02:00 - [247] - Quote TTK has actually improved slightly. The AR isn't king anymore and the new weapons make shield tanking a bit more viable, even more when you use them. Things aren't perfect, mind you but it's gotten slightly better. Rumor has it they toned down aim-assist. Given that I can now strafe a little bit to survive, I believe it. People still die a bit too fast for comfort sometimes though. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1479	Posted - 2013.12.20 16:32:00 - [248] - Quote Everything taking place at longer ranges helps too, since people miss more. You can actually sprint across open ground to some cover without being melted now. Get into a city though and most of the time people are dying in less than a second.
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 302	Posted - 2013.12.20 17:36:00 - [249] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: So, a whole new world of guns and vehicles now. It's been a couple weeks. How are people feeling about things I wonder? Or has the glitz of "new stuff" sort of glossed over everything? CCP: TTK is an issue? Got it. Here, have a Combat Rifle.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3092	Posted - 2013.12.21 00:25:00 - [250] - Quote I got a chance to play the current build a bit. I'd say the TTK still needs work (lengthening), though there is a vague balance in the sense of all the rifles killing you quickly. I guess that makes sense in that they didn't really adjust things in this release, they just released content. There doesn't seem to be a huge gap in TTK from any of the rifles that I noticed... that is, a high level combat rifle, rail rifle, and scrambler will all kill you quickly. I'd assume the same is still true for Duvolles, but there's a sudden flourishing of variety with all the new guns. Before trying it on an alt with SP, I made a brand-new alt to try the guns before I spent SP. I discovered, however, that a brand new character doesn't have the ISK to afford the skillbooks Weaponry, Light Weapon Op, and a weapon skill at creation. It took two matches to get the ISK to afford to actually put a point in the new weapons and buy guns. By the third match I was out of battle academy (?!), and faced off against two full corp groups on a team with zero grouped people with my character that had literally two matches experience, 0 ISK beyond the three skill books and handful of guns I'd just bought. My team was redlined and stomped, as my character with only starter fits and standard rail/combat rifles was killed by people with Balac's. So, the current state of the NPE is basically a skullfucking. Great job there. TTK there was horrible, naturally. On an alt with SP the TTK is still very short, but it was "slightly" less lop-sided. You still die faster than you might in a game like CoD, in this case in a Heavy suit with 12 million SP. It was laughably easy to take down people with the new rifles there, and the game continues to have a air of "the person who sees the other person first will get the kill" (twitch gameplay) as opposed to any real significance of tanking or builds. That was the case before 1.7 as well of course. I glad that some weapon variety is getting out there, and that range of engagement is being played with more. The TTK is still abysmal. That's my take on 1.7. Join my cult.

Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3095	Posted - 2013.12.23 03:40:00 - [251] - Quote Hopefully this gets fixed in 1.8. Join my cult.
NOAMIzzzzz BIG BAD W0LVES 79	Posted - 2013.12.23 04:44:00 - [252] - Quote i am here. and i aggre.
Draco Cerberus BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 626	Posted - 2013.12.23 07:48:00 - [253] - Quote We're immortal but we can't live forever what? LogiGod earns his pips
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3098	Posted - 2013.12.30 17:43:00 - [254] - Quote The idea of expendable equipment is a little different in Dust than EVE, since an EVE player can presumably (even in a combat situation) die relatively infrequently. It's expected that a Dust player will die a few times a match, and there are mechanics in place to make death relatively unavoidable regardless of player choices. Several combat modes are predicated on expending large amounts of clones, and orbital strikes kill you regardless of skill allotment. I guess that's the difference between a game where you can presumably just kill npcs, deliver good, or whatever, and a game that only has a team deathmatch mode. It's the limited ways available to play and the centrality of expendable equipment that makes longer TTK so important. Join my cult.
Cosgar ParagonX 9043	Posted - 2013.12.30 18:44:00 - [255] - Quote I think I'm just going to take a break, like an extended break. As in, until this game is actually fun break. I took a long hard look at my toon, SP, game modes and realized that aside from my friends, there's nothing here for me. There's no real notable EVE interaction, no corporate heists, cause and effect, or anything else that would actually make this game fit into New Eden's canon. It's just a cheap knockoff of BF with a spreadsheet and problems that should've been addressed in early beta. FFS 90% of the forums are about what's OP, broken game mechanics, and game breaking exploits that even with video proof, the devs save face by claiming it's mechanically intended. The real nail in the coffin for me is that the PC meta has made its way into pub matches. Equipment spam, everyone sticking on the rooftops not even concerned with playing the objective. I've been drinking the koolaid for too long it seems. Every time this game got worse, I would think of the day I would look back and laugh while telling a random newberry how bad this game used to be while we're sneaking through a leviathan to destroy its core. I wanted to say "I was there." But there is no there. Just an endless grind and broken gameplay centered around a lobby FPS that has the same exploits from shooters 10 years ago and I'll be damned if I'm going to waste 10 years of my life waiting for this go get better. Hell, it's been almost 2 years and we're still arguing over core gameplay. We should be talking about what's coming out in the next expansion, badass fitting ideas, or more ways EVE and Dust can interract instead of drinking fr two separate water fountains unless you need an orbital. Obviously I'm going in about a little more than TTK, but this is something I wanted to get off my chest for a while. Pardon my rambling. I'll be playing BF4 on PC if anyone needs me. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3100	Posted - 2013.12.31 15:09:00 - [256] - Quote I understand completely. I'm already, "on-break" as it were. I didn't need more than a couple games in this build to see that it still had problems, and I can be off playing games that are less irritating/broken until they get around to fixing things. I just like to keep this topic on point here because I think people can lose sight of how much of an issue this is, and if the twitch gameplay becomes the new norm - there will be no fix. Join my cult.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1448	Posted - 2013.12.31 16:28:00 - [257] - Quote Took me a while to get back to this, had to spend most of my QQ quota complaining about FW.... Anyway, TTK seems better to me, even with heavies becoming killdozers again, because, seriously, if you get caught in a hallway with an HMG your TTK should be pretty short! What's interesting is that the longer encounter ranges we kinda dreaded with the new rifle numbers actually improved things. Maybe CCP is smarter than we give them credit for, or just lucky this time, I don't know. But I certainly feel like I actually have time to get into cover now, as opposed to the "Who's shooting m... oh, I'm dead, nvm." experience of 1.6. I highly doubt I got a lot smarter or better at this game in the past month, so I have to chalk it up to the weapon changes. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3105	Posted - 2014.01.05 20:53:00 - [258] - Quote I think the new rifles improved the variety of gameplay somewhat, in that they add a certain "something" to the game in that respect. It's unfortunate that the game was without them for so long. I still think the TTK is pretty crap; I think the main difference is that you have more options to kill people very very quickly. I guess I already expounded on what I feel the current state of the game is 1.7 earlier though. It's sort of a broader problem, but the map design needs to shift and expand somewhat to make the longer ranges useful outside of the wide open spaces as well. Join my cult.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3127	Posted - 2014.01.11 04:25:00 - [259] - Quote I feel it necessary to add that TTK needs to be addressed... BEFORE you add a bunch of damage mods (commandos) and take away tanking bonuses from suits (logis). Join my cult.


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