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[Feedback] Time-To-Kill (TTK) is still much too short. Fix it.

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Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2842	Posted - 2013.10.25 09:23:00 - [91] - Quote It seems like the new AR stats give it slightly increased range? With damage kept constant, this won't get any better. Maybe CCP staff prefer playing the game as a twitch shooter with everybody basically equal too.
Cosgar ParagonX 6463	Posted - 2013.10.25 09:31:00 - [92] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: It seems like the new AR stats give it slightly increased range? With damage kept constant, this won't get any better. Maybe CCP staff prefer playing the game as a twitch shooter with everybody basically equal too. Gets inspired by Halo to make a strafing FPS using the same principals of originality that established your previous title, sell out to compete with every other FPS on the market. Seems legit.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 184	Posted - 2013.10.26 19:24:00 - [93] - Quote It's nice to see this thread get lots of dev attention.
Alldin Kan MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 731	Posted - 2013.10.26 21:42:00 - [94] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: This became a huge thing when 1.4 launched, and it's killed a lot of the satisfaction in the game for a significant chunk of the player-base. The assumption when 1.4 launched is that was all because of aim-assist (remember all those threads), yet there was also a matter where hit-detection of various weapons had improved in tandem, and other issues as well. This was something you (CCP) said you'd be watching. I hope you've seen by now how laughably short someone's life is under the gun of even MLT-grade quality. What do you think makes Dust unique in comparison to something like Halo or Quake? You would think the fact that character advancement allows you to customize your suit would be a large factor, no? Take a look at this Halo video. From the point at which the video starts, you can see it takes him a couple direct volleys with his rifle to drop/kill his opponent. It's about 6 seconds or so, and his aim is pretty good. Halo is a deathmatch sort of game where your suits are not custom and the battles are meant to be frantic and short. Compare that to Dust 514 in 1.4. (this is from CEOPyrex's video) Aside from the fact that his aim was all over the place and he was barely hitting him, it's even quicker to kill people in Dust, a game where you can fit armor/shield modules and be customized after MONTHS of play. The fact you can drop people super-quick now isn't a newsflash; it's been all over the forums since 1.4 dropped. I've heard a few suggestions for fixes, but perhaps removing the 10% across the board damage increase you gave with all the hit-detection issues at launch would be a good start. Please fix this. Fittings, skills, etc. are supposed to matter. Right now you've rendered 90% of skills pointless as a Frontline Starter with a MLT rifle and Zero SP invested can drop just about anyone faster than those guys in Halo, etc. If you want your game to be something different, then realize shooting for faster/more-death-laden gameplay than a Halo, etc. game is not the direction you want to be heading. No.
Niuvo The Phoenix Federation The Ascendancy 666	Posted - 2013.10.26 23:48:00 - [95] - Quote The life of a scout is over in .8 second. That's me using "scout mods" to "avoid" detection.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2852	Posted - 2013.10.27 01:14:00 - [96] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: This became a huge thing when 1.4 launched, and it's killed a lot of the satisfaction in the game for a significant chunk of the player-base. The assumption when 1.4 launched is that was all because of aim-assist (remember all those threads), yet there was also a matter where hit-detection of various weapons had improved in tandem, and other issues as well. This was something you (CCP) said you'd be watching. I hope you've seen by now how laughably short someone's life is under the gun of even MLT-grade quality. What do you think makes Dust unique in comparison to something like Halo or Quake? You would think the fact that character advancement allows you to customize your suit would be a large factor, no? Take a look at this Halo video. From the point at which the video starts, you can see it takes him a couple direct volleys with his rifle to drop/kill his opponent. It's about 6 seconds or so, and his aim is pretty good. Halo is a deathmatch sort of game where your suits are not custom and the battles are meant to be frantic and short. Compare that to Dust 514 in 1.4. (this is from CEOPyrex's video) Aside from the fact that his aim was all over the place and he was barely hitting him, it's even quicker to kill people in Dust, a game where you can fit armor/shield modules and be customized after MONTHS of play. The fact you can drop people super-quick now isn't a newsflash; it's been all over the forums since 1.4 dropped. I've heard a few suggestions for fixes, but perhaps removing the 10% across the board damage increase you gave with all the hit-detection issues at launch would be a good start. Please fix this. Fittings, skills, etc. are supposed to matter. Right now you've rendered 90% of skills pointless as a Frontline Starter with a MLT rifle and Zero SP invested can drop just about anyone faster than those guys in Halo, etc. If you want your game to be something different, then realize shooting for faster/more-death-laden gameplay than a Halo, etc. game is not the direction you want to be heading. No. I admire your well-reasoned response and support for CoD. It's a shame you're posting in the wrong forum for that.
Cosgar ParagonX 6645	Posted - 2013.10.27 05:39:00 - [97] - Quote Did some more testing with shield rechargers, regulators, and armor reppers. If they just don't outright fix the TTK, reducing the shield recharge delay by 2 seconds on every dropsuit, adding an extra 10 HP/s regen on their base shields and buffing armor repair modules to 4/6/10 HP/s across the tiers might go a long way. I'd do some testing on reppers and triage hives, but really, what's easier to fix?
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 810	Posted - 2013.10.27 05:44:00 - [98] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Did some more testing with shield rechargers, regulators, and armor reppers. If they just don't outright fix the TTK, reducing the shield recharge delay by 2 seconds on every dropsuit, adding an extra 10 HP/s regen on their base shields and buffing armor repair modules to 4/6/10 HP/s across the tiers might go a long way. I'd do some testing on reppers and triage hives, but really, what's easier to fix? The problem is that, yes, it would help to buff those things, but that's CoD balancing. High damage, high health regen is a recipe for a twitch fest.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles 216	Posted - 2013.10.27 05:56:00 - [99] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: This became a huge thing when 1.4 launched, and it's killed a lot of the satisfaction in the game for a significant chunk of the player-base. The assumption when 1.4 launched is that is was all because of aim-assist (remember all those threads), yet there was also a matter where hit-detection of various weapons had improved in tandem. This was something you (CCP) said you'd be watching. I hope you've seen by now how laughably short someone's life is under the gun of even a MLT-grade quality. What do you think makes Dust unique in comparison to something like Halo or Quake? You would think the fact that character advancement allows you to customize your suit would be a large factor, no? Take a look at this Halo video. From the point at which the video starts, you can see it takes him a couple direct volleys with his rifle to drop/kill his opponent. It's about 6 seconds or so, and his aim is pretty good. Halo is a deathmatch sort of game where your suits are not custom and the battles are meant to be frantic and short. Compare that to Dust 514 in 1.4. (this is from CEOPyrex's video) Aside from the fact that his aim was all over the place and he was barely hitting him, it's even quicker to kill people in Dust, a game where you can fit armor/shield modules and be customized after MONTHS of play. The fact you can drop people super-quick now isn't a newsflash; it's been all over the forums since 1.4 dropped. I've heard a few suggestions for fixes, but perhaps removing the 10% across the board damage increase you gave with all the hit-detection issues at launch would be a good start. Please fix this. Fittings, skills, etc. are supposed to matter. Right now you've rendered 90% of skills pointless as a Frontline Starter with a MLT rifle and Zero SP invested can drop just about anyone faster than those guys in Halo, etc. If you want your game to be something different, then realize shooting for faster/more-death-laden gameplay than a Halo, etc. game is not the direction you want to be heading. Agreed, I can barely shield people while I revive them anymore, remove 10% buff. there was no magical 10% buff? please people learn history... it will set you free in almost anything in life. 10% damage was introduced after they removed weaponry bonus's of 2% damage per level. And made it a skill sink skill where lvl 2 and 4 do absolutely nothing. but **** people off being the first skill you have to get and it already being a skill point sink. no magical 10% damage showed up to anything. And hit detection is worse then it has ever been.... TTK in beta was no different... you died just as fast... we still loved it... But when you did die it was to a predictable shot or something that took more then 1 shot(thales/charge excluded) Now you get one shot naded by a militia grenade... let alone a core locus... the grenade 1 shot kill spam's is hilarious... Forge gun 1 shot kill deaths everywhere... Mass drivers 1-2 shotting every low health point suit with almost impossible to miss splash radius's... CCP has installed Aim-bot and these one shot kill weapons to compress skill gap's in the game... It has to do with eliminating a players ability to play a perfect game with skill... Allowing a random element to always one shot kill you... no matter how good the positioning or ability is. CCP made these choices and personally its why a majority of people i know will never touch this game again. Catering to casual's in that sort of way is unforgivable for most... and it's truely sad.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2855	Posted - 2013.10.27 06:31:00 - [100] - Quote Bethhy wrote: there was no magical 10% buff? please people learn history... it will set you free in almost anything in life. ... no magical 10% damage showed up to anything. And hit detection is worse then it has ever been.... No one is suggesting anything "magical" happened. I cite the exact dev posts referencing the buff here. History is great, but you need to work on finishing a page before you teach it.

TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 1026	Posted - 2013.10.27 11:22:00 - [101] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Bethhy wrote: there was no magical 10% buff? please people learn history... it will set you free in almost anything in life. ... no magical 10% damage showed up to anything. And hit detection is worse then it has ever been.... No one is suggesting anything "magical" happened. I cite the exact dev posts referencing the buff here. History is great, but you need to work on finishing a page before you teach it. Thank you.
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 1026	Posted - 2013.10.27 11:28:00 - [102] - Quote Bethhy wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: This became a huge thing when 1.4 launched, and it's killed a lot of the satisfaction in the game for a significant chunk of the player-base. The assumption when 1.4 launched is that is was all because of aim-assist (remember all those threads), yet there was also a matter where hit-detection of various weapons had improved in tandem. This was something you (CCP) said you'd be watching. I hope you've seen by now how laughably short someone's life is under the gun of even a MLT-grade quality. What do you think makes Dust unique in comparison to something like Halo or Quake? You would think the fact that character advancement allows you to customize your suit would be a large factor, no? Take a look at this Halo video. From the point at which the video starts, you can see it takes him a couple direct volleys with his rifle to drop/kill his opponent. It's about 6 seconds or so, and his aim is pretty good. Halo is a deathmatch sort of game where your suits are not custom and the battles are meant to be frantic and short. Compare that to Dust 514 in 1.4. (this is from CEOPyrex's video) Aside from the fact that his aim was all over the place and he was barely hitting him, it's even quicker to kill people in Dust, a game where you can fit armor/shield modules and be customized after MONTHS of play. The fact you can drop people super-quick now isn't a newsflash; it's been all over the forums since 1.4 dropped. I've heard a few suggestions for fixes, but perhaps removing the 10% across the board damage increase you gave with all the hit-detection issues at launch would be a good start. Please fix this. Fittings, skills, etc. are supposed to matter. Right now you've rendered 90% of skills pointless as a Frontline Starter with a MLT rifle and Zero SP invested can drop just about anyone faster than those guys in Halo, etc. If you want your game to be something different, then realize shooting for faster/more-death-laden gameplay than a Halo, etc. game is not the direction you want to be heading. Agreed, I can barely shield people while I revive them anymore, remove 10% buff. there was no magical 10% buff? please people learn history... it will set you free in almost anything in life. 10% damage was introduced after they removed the weaponry skill bonus of 2% damage per level. And made it a skill sink skill where lvl 2 and 4 do absolutely nothing. but **** people off being the first skill you have to get and it already being a skill point sink. no magical 10% damage showed up to anything. And hit detection is worse then it has ever been.... TTK in beta was no different... you died just as fast... we still loved it... But when you did die it was to a predictable shot or something that took more then 1 shot(thales/charge excluded) Now you get one shot naded by a militia grenade... let alone a core locus... the grenade 1 shot kill spam's is hilarious... Forge gun 1 shot kill deaths everywhere... Mass drivers 1-2 shotting every low health point suit with almost impossible to miss splash radius's... CCP has installed Aim-bot and these one shot kill weapons to compress skill gap's in the game... It has to do with eliminating a players ability to play a perfect game with skill... Allowing a random element to always one shot kill you... no matter how good the positioning or ability is. CCP made these choices and personally its why a majority of people i know will never touch this game again. Catering to casual's in that sort of way is unforgivable for most... and it's truely sad. Agreed no magical buff, just a buff across their board of 10% as announced by devs a fair while back. Congratulations well done.
Beeeees KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 307	Posted - 2013.10.27 15:11:00 - [103] - Quote The problem right now is that more EHP does not improve your survivability past ADV level enemies, as certain guns (Duvolle namely) + stacked damage mods negate range fall off, and no amount of armor and shields strapped on will save you. What The French-¦s glass cannon death squads demonstrate that in all their glory. No amount of EHP is going to save you from stacked damage mods combined with insane DPS.
Kazeno Rannaa BIG BAD W0LVES 296	Posted - 2013.10.27 18:33:00 - [104] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: This became a huge thing when 1.4 launched, and it's killed a lot of the satisfaction in the game for a significant chunk of the player-base. The assumption when 1.4 launched is that was all because of aim-assist (remember all those threads), yet there was also a matter where hit-detection of various weapons had improved in tandem, and other issues as well. This was something you (CCP) said you'd be watching. I hope you've seen by now how laughably short someone's life is under the gun of even MLT-grade quality. What do you think makes Dust unique in comparison to something like Halo or Quake? You would think the fact that character advancement allows you to customize your suit would be a large factor, no? Take a look at this Halo video. From the point at which the video starts, you can see it takes him a couple direct volleys with his rifle to drop/kill his opponent. It's about 6 seconds or so, and his aim is pretty good. Halo is a deathmatch sort of game where your suits are not custom and the battles are meant to be frantic and short. Compare that to Dust 514 in 1.4. (this is from CEOPyrex's video) Aside from the fact that his aim was all over the place and he was barely hitting him, it's even quicker to kill people in Dust, a game where you can fit armor/shield modules and be customized after MONTHS of play. The fact you can drop people super-quick now isn't a newsflash; it's been all over the forums since 1.4 dropped. I've heard a few suggestions for fixes, but perhaps removing the 10% across the board damage increase you gave with all the hit-detection issues at launch would be a good start. Please fix this. Fittings, skills, etc. are supposed to matter. Right now you've rendered 90% of skills pointless as a Frontline Starter with a MLT rifle and Zero SP invested can drop just about anyone faster than those guys in Halo, etc. If you want your game to be something different, then realize shooting for faster/more-death-laden gameplay than a Halo, etc. game is not the direction you want to be heading. Upon seeing these, and having the most recent experiences where I have seen little observable difference between a Militia grad AR and that of a Duvolle in TTK, I would be OK with the removal of the 10% buff ALL of the weapons got, not just the AR. But that is IF that is the case rather than issues of pack prioritization and correlation on the server side of the coin when dealing with two completely different pings from players and client side. The thing is I have seen it on both sides. I have taken people down laughably fast with my Exile (protoGÇÖs to be included) then I have had times where my Exile could scratch them after 40 round dumped into an opponent at 5-10 meters. Those same people melted me in a matter of 4-5 rounds with a number of weapons (i.e., Militia, Standard, Advanced or Proto ARs, SMGs, MD, Scram Pistols). Now granted I havenGÇÖt added in the possibility of head shots (it is kind of heard to tell if I am being shot in the chest or in the head, but observable flight paths of the round leads me to believe that most were to the body, main body mass). So I canGÇÖt say for sure what the issue is beyond the possibility that data packet correlation is poorly optimized at this moment.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 818	Posted - 2013.10.27 18:55:00 - [105] - Quote Bethhy wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: This became a huge thing when 1.4 launched, and it's killed a lot of the satisfaction in the game for a significant chunk of the player-base. The assumption when 1.4 launched is that is was all because of aim-assist (remember all those threads), yet there was also a matter where hit-detection of various weapons had improved in tandem. This was something you (CCP) said you'd be watching. I hope you've seen by now how laughably short someone's life is under the gun of even a MLT-grade quality. What do you think makes Dust unique in comparison to something like Halo or Quake? You would think the fact that character advancement allows you to customize your suit would be a large factor, no? Take a look at this Halo video. From the point at which the video starts, you can see it takes him a couple direct volleys with his rifle to drop/kill his opponent. It's about 6 seconds or so, and his aim is pretty good. Halo is a deathmatch sort of game where your suits are not custom and the battles are meant to be frantic and short. Compare that to Dust 514 in 1.4. (this is from CEOPyrex's video) Aside from the fact that his aim was all over the place and he was barely hitting him, it's even quicker to kill people in Dust, a game where you can fit armor/shield modules and be customized after MONTHS of play. The fact you can drop people super-quick now isn't a newsflash; it's been all over the forums since 1.4 dropped. I've heard a few suggestions for fixes, but perhaps removing the 10% across the board damage increase you gave with all the hit-detection issues at launch would be a good start. Please fix this. Fittings, skills, etc. are supposed to matter. Right now you've rendered 90% of skills pointless as a Frontline Starter with a MLT rifle and Zero SP invested can drop just about anyone faster than those guys in Halo, etc. If you want your game to be something different, then realize shooting for faster/more-death-laden gameplay than a Halo, etc. game is not the direction you want to be heading. Agreed, I can barely shield people while I revive them anymore, remove 10% buff. there was no magical 10% buff? please people learn history... it will set you free in almost anything in life. 10% damage was introduced after they removed the weaponry skill bonus of 2% damage per level. And made it a skill sink skill where lvl 2 and 4 do absolutely nothing. but **** people off being the first skill you have to get and it already being a skill point sink. no magical 10% damage showed up to anything. And hit detection is worse then it has ever been.... TTK in beta was no different... you died just as fast... we still loved it... But when you did die it was to a predictable shot or something that took more then 1 shot(thales/charge excluded) Now you get one shot naded by a militia grenade... let alone a core locus... the grenade 1 shot kill spam's is hilarious... Forge gun 1 shot kill deaths everywhere... Mass drivers 1-2 shotting every low health point suit with almost impossible to miss splash radius's... CCP has installed Aim-bot and these one shot kill weapons to compress skill gap's in the game... It has to do with eliminating a players ability to play a perfect game with skill... Allowing a random element to always one shot kill you... no matter how good the positioning or ability is. CCP made these choices and personally its why a majority of people i know will never touch this game again. Catering to casual's in that sort of way is unforgivable for most... and it's truely sad. I agree with the one shot kills. It's game design 101. For a death to not be frustrating, the player must understand why they died and how they could've avoided it. If you die because the other guy had more aim or because you let them get behind you, then it's understandable and not very frustrating. When you get OHKO by a Thale hundreds of meters away that isn't rendered, can't be scanned and can't be killed by you? 1-2HKO weapons negate the opposing player's skill by allowing a skilled player to kill them (Tactical Snipers can Double Tap you; I die to more of these than Thales) before they can reasonably react. It's supposed to be a scale and CCP places a 100kg weight on one side. At the same time, with the normal variant's slow fire rate, if the bullet does low damage then the Sniper can basically never kill anyone, which is unfair to snipers. I hate Sniper Rifles in most games. It's harder to balance in Dust 514 because the maps are huge with many towers and hills and there isn't a lot of cover on the ground. Unlike, say, Killzone, where a skilled Assault Rifle user can kill the average Sniper with good aim, Sniper Rifles have hundreds of meters in range advantage. Even if you see a sniper, unless you also have a sniper rifle, you can't do anything about him. Forges are even worse game design because they OHKO you NO MATTER WHAT YOU'RE WEARING. In fact, fully tanked PRO suits can be easier to OHKO than standard suits because they often move a little slower due to armor plates. Heavies are hilariously easy to one shot with Forge guns. Several times I've seen the enemy team has a lot of Heavies, so I swap to Militia Forge + Basic Heavy Frame and sit on a tower. Hold button, slowly sweep over area, let go as soon as reticule goes red. OHKO. 17/2. Forge Guns are a problem because they have a TTK of 0 seconds. No one can react to that.
Cosgar ParagonX 6665	Posted - 2013.10.27 19:15:00 - [106] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: Bethhy wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: This became a huge thing when 1.4 launched, and it's killed a lot of the satisfaction in the game for a significant chunk of the player-base. The assumption when 1.4 launched is that is was all because of aim-assist (remember all those threads), yet there was also a matter where hit-detection of various weapons had improved in tandem. This was something you (CCP) said you'd be watching. I hope you've seen by now how laughably short someone's life is under the gun of even a MLT-grade quality. What do you think makes Dust unique in comparison to something like Halo or Quake? You would think the fact that character advancement allows you to customize your suit would be a large factor, no? Take a look at this Halo video. From the point at which the video starts, you can see it takes him a couple direct volleys with his rifle to drop/kill his opponent. It's about 6 seconds or so, and his aim is pretty good. Halo is a deathmatch sort of game where your suits are not custom and the battles are meant to be frantic and short. Compare that to Dust 514 in 1.4. (this is from CEOPyrex's video) Aside from the fact that his aim was all over the place and he was barely hitting him, it's even quicker to kill people in Dust, a game where you can fit armor/shield modules and be customized after MONTHS of play. The fact you can drop people super-quick now isn't a newsflash; it's been all over the forums since 1.4 dropped. I've heard a few suggestions for fixes, but perhaps removing the 10% across the board damage increase you gave with all the hit-detection issues at launch would be a good start. Please fix this. Fittings, skills, etc. are supposed to matter. Right now you've rendered 90% of skills pointless as a Frontline Starter with a MLT rifle and Zero SP invested can drop just about anyone faster than those guys in Halo, etc. If you want your game to be something different, then realize shooting for faster/more-death-laden gameplay than a Halo, etc. game is not the direction you want to be heading. Agreed, I can barely shield people while I revive them anymore, remove 10% buff. there was no magical 10% buff? please people learn history... it will set you free in almost anything in life. 10% damage was introduced after they removed the weaponry skill bonus of 2% damage per level. And made it a skill sink skill where lvl 2 and 4 do absolutely nothing. but **** people off being the first skill you have to get and it already being a skill point sink. no magical 10% damage showed up to anything. And hit detection is worse then it has ever been.... TTK in beta was no different... you died just as fast... we still loved it... But when you did die it was to a predictable shot or something that took more then 1 shot(thales/charge excluded) Now you get one shot naded by a militia grenade... let alone a core locus... the grenade 1 shot kill spam's is hilarious... Forge gun 1 shot kill deaths everywhere... Mass drivers 1-2 shotting every low health point suit with almost impossible to miss splash radius's... CCP has installed Aim-bot and these one shot kill weapons to compress skill gap's in the game... It has to do with eliminating a players ability to play a perfect game with skill... Allowing a random element to always one shot kill you... no matter how good the positioning or ability is. CCP made these choices and personally its why a majority of people i know will never touch this game again. Catering to casual's in that sort of way is unforgivable for most... and it's truely sad. I agree with the one shot kills. It's game design 101. For a death to not be frustrating, the player must understand why they died and how they could've avoided it. If you die because the other guy had more aim or because you let them get behind you, then it's understandable and not very frustrating. When you get OHKO by a Thale hundreds of meters away that isn't rendered, can't be scanned and can't be killed by you? 1-2HKO weapons negate the opposing player's skill by allowing a skilled player to kill them (Tactical Snipers can Double Tap you; I die to more of these than Thales) before they can reasonably react. It's supposed to be a scale and CCP places a 100kg weight on one side. At the same time, with the normal variant's slow fire rate, if the bullet does low damage then the Sniper can basically never kill anyone, which is unfair to snipers. I hate Sniper Rifles in most games. It's harder to balance in Dust 514 because the maps are huge with many towers and hills and there isn't a lot of cover on the ground. Unlike, say, Killzone, where a skilled Assault Rifle user can kill the average Sniper with good aim, Sniper Rifles have hundreds of meters in range advantage. Even if you see a sniper, unless you also have a sniper rifle, you can't do anything about him. Forges are even worse game design because they OHKO you NO MATTER WHAT YOU'RE WEARING. In fact, fully tanked PRO suits can be easier to OHKO than standard suits because they often move a little slower due to armor plates. Heavies are hilariously easy to one shot with Forge guns. Several times I've seen the enemy team has a lot of Heavies, so I swap to Militia Forge + Basic Heavy Frame and sit on a tower. Hold button, slowly sweep over area, let go as soon as reticule goes red. OHKO. 17/2. Forge Guns are a problem because they have a TTK of 0 seconds. No one can react to that. All the above could be fixed by adjusting damage falloff and draw distance.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 818	Posted - 2013.10.27 19:28:00 - [107] - Quote Cosgar wrote: All the above could be fixed by adjusting damage falloff and draw distance. Snipers don't really have fall off. They have a 600m combined optimal and effective range. You could lower the optimal, but it's a Sniper Rifle. Draw distance makes it hard to see snipers to avoid them, so that could help. Of course, you'd have to look 360 degrees at all the sniper points every ten seconds to catch them. Forge Guns have a combined 300m optimal and effective range. I think they do have a very sharp damage drop off after that. Lowering their optimal would help. Draw distance would help, but not tackle the root of the problem.
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 74	Posted - 2013.10.27 19:44:00 - [108] - Quote I TOTALLY AGREE !!!! The actual TTK is really too short for all weapons based an Aim assist and/or high RoF because of the Hit detection issues from Uprising 1.4 The problem is actually from ALL weapons that have a high RoF. (Assault Rifle / assault Scrambler rifle / SMG (who becams as good as a primary) Because of this Dust start become COD and it makes me sad. Remove the 10% of damage will be a good start. And range of Assault rifle (and Assault scrambler) should be lightly nerfed because their high RoF make them highly deadly even beyond their range. (Normal scrambler is fine). Actually Tanking is almost impossible killling an ennemy that have 600 or 1200 hp is almost the same....
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 74	Posted - 2013.10.27 19:49:00 - [109] - Quote But actually some weapons should not be nerfed because hit detection didn't touch them and doesn't have Aim Assist. Secondaries (exept SMG) / Mass Driver / Breach and Burst version of all weapons / Laser rifles / Swarm launcher / HMG (Which is fine now) / Shotguns / Scrambler Rifle (exept assault version)
hgghyujh expert intervention Caldari State 136	Posted - 2013.10.27 23:13:00 - [110] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: This became a huge thing when 1.4 launched, and it's killed a lot of the satisfaction in the game for a significant chunk of the player-base. The assumption when 1.4 launched is that was all because of aim-assist (remember all those threads), yet there was also a matter where hit-detection of various weapons had improved in tandem, and other issues as well. This was something you (CCP) said you'd be watching. I hope you've seen by now how laughably short someone's life is under the gun of even MLT-grade quality. What do you think makes Dust unique in comparison to something like Halo or Quake? You would think the fact that character advancement allows you to customize your suit would be a large factor, no? Take a look at this Halo video. From the point at which the video starts, you can see it takes him a couple direct volleys with his rifle to drop/kill his opponent. It's about 6 seconds or so, and his aim is pretty good. Halo is a deathmatch sort of game where your suits are not custom and the battles are meant to be frantic and short. Compare that to Dust 514 in 1.4. (this is from CEOPyrex's video) Aside from the fact that his aim was all over the place and he was barely hitting him, it's even quicker to kill people in Dust, a game where you can fit armor/shield modules and be customized after MONTHS of play. The fact you can drop people super-quick now isn't a newsflash; it's been all over the forums since 1.4 dropped. I've heard a few suggestions for fixes, but perhaps removing the 10% across the board damage increase you gave with all the hit-detection issues at launch would be a good start. Please fix this. Fittings, skills, etc. are supposed to matter. Right now you've rendered 90% of skills pointless as a Frontline Starter with a MLT rifle and Zero SP invested can drop just about anyone faster than those guys in Halo, etc. If you want your game to be something different, then realize shooting for faster/more-death-laden gameplay than a Halo, etc. game is not the direction you want to be heading. I would double base dropsuit HP as well, It will help deemphasize tank modals which have become the only way to assemble your suit.

Cosgar ParagonX 6696	Posted - 2013.10.28 02:58:00 - [111] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: Cosgar wrote: All the above could be fixed by adjusting damage falloff and draw distance. Snipers don't really have fall off. They have a 600m combined optimal and effective range. You could lower the optimal, but it's a Sniper Rifle. Draw distance makes it hard to see snipers to avoid them, so that could help. Of course, you'd have to look 360 degrees at all the sniper points every ten seconds to catch them. Forge Guns have a combined 300m optimal and effective range. I think they do have a very sharp damage drop off after that. Lowering their optimal would help. Draw distance would help, but not tackle the root of the problem. This could be a topic within itself. That's one of the biggest imbalance issues in any game- a mechanic or tactic that can only be challenged by itself. I shouldn't have to throw SP into a sniper rifle just to deal with one hiding behind the redline, and I shouldn't have to waste a dropship with the chance to take out a forge gunner on a roof. CCP has been making the effort to mitigate both issues through map design with the new sockets, but the core of the problem could be resolved by A) Negating any damage taken from behind the redline, and B) Making forge gun's more obvious to see from a distance (and maybe cutting down range until draw distance gets sorted out) I agree that cheap deaths can be a serious issue when there's no safe way to avoid or counter it.
KA24DERT Pure Innocence. EoN. 210	Posted - 2013.10.28 05:25:00 - [112] - Quote I do agree with the Forge being too powerful against infantry. It probably needs a nerf against drop suits and also have a small random trajectory variance so that it can't snipe infantry with pinpoint accuracy, but can still hit a vehicle. Sniper rifles I feel are fine. Working as intended. I've killed lots of prototype snipers with the base rifle. Skill is key. That said, the day to day scourge of this game is the raw DPS of the hit-scan weapons combined with Auto-Aim. Some people are suggesting a 10% drop in damage to the main battle rifles, but I'm thinking more like 30% to start. A Duvolle does a BASE damage of 467.5 per second. That's enough to drop most fits in the game. IN ONE SECOND. A 10% nerf brings the DPS down to 420.75. That's still enough to drop most fits in the game in under a second. 30% brings the DPS down to 327.25 base. Three seconds to drop a fully decked out proto suit with 900+ hp? Now we're entering the realm of reason. The nerf for ARs and ScRs *STARTS* at 30%, or HP in this game will remain a near meaningless statistic. For comparison, the Freedom Mass Driver gets 270 DPS, IF you get a direct hit. Which is why I share Mordecai Sanguine's sentiment that a nerf should NOT be across the board.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2868	Posted - 2013.10.28 07:16:00 - [113] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: I do agree with the Forge being too powerful against infantry. It probably needs a nerf against drop suits and also have a small random trajectory variance so that it can't snipe infantry with pinpoint accuracy, but can still hit a vehicle. Sniper rifles I feel are fine. Working as intended. I've killed lots of prototype snipers with the base rifle. Skill is key. That said, the day to day scourge of this game is the raw DPS of the hit-scan weapons combined with Auto-Aim. Some people are suggesting a 10% drop in damage to the main battle rifles, but I'm thinking more like 30% to start. A Duvolle does a BASE damage of 467.5 per second. That's enough to drop most fits in the game. IN ONE SECOND. A 10% nerf brings the DPS down to 420.75. That's still enough to drop most fits in the game in under a second. 30% brings the DPS down to 327.25 base. Three seconds to drop a fully decked out proto suit with 900+ hp? Now we're entering the realm of reason. The nerf for ARs and ScRs *STARTS* at 30%, or HP in this game will remain a near meaningless statistic. For comparison, the Freedom Mass Driver gets 270 DPS, IF you get a direct hit. Which is why I share Mordecai Sanguine's sentiment that a nerf should NOT be across the board. Like I said, I'm not worried about 10% being too much, but I think it's a start. I personally doubt TTK would be "fixed" in any real sense with only a 10% debuff, as the problems are a bit broader than just the raw damage output as you suggest. The combination of AA and hit-detection changes made for a large adjustment. A 10% change alone wouldn't shift things like "Basic Shield Extenders" into the range of "meaningful/useful module" even on the MLT level. I think I may be at odds vision-wise with some other people on what "fixed" would look like. If a person is completely skilled and outfitted into tanking (all complex shield extenders and plates at max in a PRO suit), I don't think an individual MLT guy should be able to drop him in a couple seconds. I think going all tank should be sacrificing your damage potential (or other potential to some degree) as well. I think the all-tanked troops should only be dropping quickly if faced with focused fire from more than one unit. Relatively speaking of course. The current way the game works emphasizes damage over everything else, and a much much smaller quantity of SP invested in damage mods/weapons to PRO will make a much larger difference than and tanking modules you could ever skill into (which are all much more expensive relatively). The current game advertises tanking and damage mitigation options which don't actually mitigate to any great degree. This is an issue. The tanking issue is bad enough though, that as mentioned, you can take down well-tanked people with a MLT weapon and no skills very easily as well. In the world of Dust, protective technology hasn't kept pace with damage tech.
Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 436	Posted - 2013.10.28 08:04:00 - [114] - Quote All things being equal with the TTK shortened severely from 1.4 and the earlier builds, even with a BPO suit it is very difficult for players not running glass tanks and damage mods to make any amount of isk that would allow them to upgrade their gear, replace lost suits or buy skills. Something needs to be done, now not later. The emergency 10% buff was slated to be removed when and if it was found to be too much. How about a hot fix to remove it and see if that fixes the issue. I agree with one of the previous posts that ping times and client matching needs to be a lot better as well. If he is rendering in front of me and my bullets are landing on the rendered image it should do damage to him. He shouldn't be able to turn around on me a cut me down with 1-2 rounds even if he is using a Duvolle, they aren't a 200 damage per bullet gun they are supposed to be approximately 425dps. Heck I've emptied full clips into people with a Duvolle and they stand there finish killing their target then turn around and kill me with their Militia Assault Rifle while I reload. This is absolutely broken. A final thought on the subject. After patch implementation it should be absolutely mandatory for all the devs involved in every aspect of the game to sit down (standing is ok I do that sometimes) and play at least 2-3 hours of Dust514 to fully experience what they expect us to. This may solve some of the issues as they will see firsthand what the game has turned into. In fact I recommend that before working on anything else as of now they play at least one match (not academy) and then go to work on what needs to be done.
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 77	Posted - 2013.10.28 10:19:00 - [115] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: I do agree with the Forge being too powerful against infantry. It probably needs a nerf against drop suits and also have a small random trajectory variance so that it can't snipe infantry with pinpoint accuracy, but can still hit a vehicle. Sniper rifles I feel are fine. Working as intended. I've killed lots of prototype snipers with the base rifle. Skill is key. That said, the day to day scourge of this game is the raw DPS of the hit-scan weapons combined with Auto-Aim. Some people are suggesting a 10% drop in damage to the main battle rifles, but I'm thinking more like 30% to start. A Duvolle does a BASE damage of 467.5 per second. That's enough to drop most fits in the game. IN ONE SECOND. A 10% nerf brings the DPS down to 420.75. That's still enough to drop most fits in the game in under a second. 30% brings the DPS down to 327.25 base. Three seconds to drop a fully decked out proto suit with 900+ hp? Now we're entering the realm of reason. The nerf for ARs and ScRs *STARTS* at 30%, or HP in this game will remain a near meaningless statistic. For comparison, the Freedom Mass Driver gets 270 DPS, IF you get a direct hit. Which is why I share Mordecai Sanguine's sentiment that a nerf should NOT be across the board. Like you said a lot of weapons should not be touch by a major nerf. Totally agree with you. BUT i think Scrambler rifle is fine. Only the Assault scrambler rifle should be nerfed.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles 227	Posted - 2013.10.28 17:32:00 - [116] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Bethhy wrote: there was no magical 10% buff? please people learn history... it will set you free in almost anything in life. ... no magical 10% damage showed up to anything. And hit detection is worse then it has ever been.... No one is suggesting anything "magical" happened. I cite the exact dev posts referencing the buff here. History is great, but you need to work on finishing a page before you teach it. If the dev's are thinking everyone getting the 10% DAMAGE WE ALREADY HAD... has created a TTk issue? just go back and watch any Beta gameplay vid... because that simply isnt true. And if they are basing the TTK from uprising launch? where they lost over half their active population in one patch... They need to go back to beta where everyone still lives... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZI6msPfY7Y And incase you wonder why we vet's love the old beta concept... The game was just cooler then... Even the graphix where 100 times better looking IMO. They have made it cartoony and lost that "DUST" element [u]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnLOT4ljptM/u] Specifically said by you Zeylon Rho wrote: So, we have a damage bonus that was in part a reaction to an outcry of players reacting to changes in what they were familiar with, but it was actually a combined issue with: less range, aiming/control, hit-detection/rendering, and fall-off damage issues. So, if we're at a point where these other issue have been fixed; it's time for the crutch TO GO! There was no bonus... it has always existed in DUST... no magical 10% damage came out of thin air...everyone already had it.. Except Weaponry actually was worth getting not a skill that does absolutely nothing... AA is the elephant in the room... MAG never had any AA...two newberry's meet each other with AA and it ends quick... lol. Hit detection is messed still, and everyone thinking its to good that's why we are dieing so fast... is ... welll
Bethhy Ancient Exiles 227	Posted - 2013.10.28 18:09:00 - [117] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: Bethhy wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: This became a huge thing when 1.4 launched, and it's killed a lot of the satisfaction in the game for a significant chunk of the player-base. The assumption when 1.4 launched is that is was all because of aim-assist (remember all those threads), yet there was also a matter where hit-detection of various weapons had improved in tandem. This was something you (CCP) said you'd be watching. I hope you've seen by now how laughably short someone's life is under the gun of even a MLT-grade quality. What do you think makes Dust unique in comparison to something like Halo or Quake? You would think the fact that character advancement allows you to customize your suit would be a large factor, no? Take a look at this Halo video. From the point at which the video starts, you can see it takes him a couple direct volleys with his rifle to drop/kill his opponent. It's about 6 seconds or so, and his aim is pretty good. Halo is a deathmatch sort of game where your suits are not custom and the battles are meant to be frantic and short. Compare that to Dust 514 in 1.4. (this is from CEOPyrex's video) Aside from the fact that his aim was all over the place and he was barely hitting him, it's even quicker to kill people in Dust, a game where you can fit armor/shield modules and be customized after MONTHS of play. The fact you can drop people super-quick now isn't a newsflash; it's been all over the forums since 1.4 dropped. I've heard a few suggestions for fixes, but perhaps removing the 10% across the board damage increase you gave with all the hit-detection issues at launch would be a good start. Please fix this. Fittings, skills, etc. are supposed to matter. Right now you've rendered 90% of skills pointless as a Frontline Starter with a MLT rifle and Zero SP invested can drop just about anyone faster than those guys in Halo, etc. If you want your game to be something different, then realize shooting for faster/more-death-laden gameplay than a Halo, etc. game is not the direction you want to be heading. Agreed, I can barely shield people while I revive them anymore, remove 10% buff. there was no magical 10% buff? please people learn history... it will set you free in almost anything in life. 10% damage was introduced after they removed the weaponry skill bonus of 2% damage per level. And made it a skill sink skill where lvl 2 and 4 do absolutely nothing. but **** people off being the first skill you have to get and it already being a skill point sink. no magical 10% damage showed up to anything. And hit detection is worse then it has ever been.... TTK in beta was no different... you died just as fast... we still loved it... But when you did die it was to a predictable shot or something that took more then 1 shot(thales/charge excluded) Now you get one shot naded by a militia grenade... let alone a core locus... the grenade 1 shot kill spam's is hilarious... Forge gun 1 shot kill deaths everywhere... Mass drivers 1-2 shotting every low health point suit with almost impossible to miss splash radius's... CCP has installed Aim-bot and these one shot kill weapons to compress skill gap's in the game... It has to do with eliminating a players ability to play a perfect game with skill... Allowing a random element to always one shot kill you... no matter how good the positioning or ability is. CCP made these choices and personally its why a majority of people i know will never touch this game again. Catering to casual's in that sort of way is unforgivable for most... and it's truely sad. I agree with the one shot kills. It's game design 101. For a death to not be frustrating, the player must understand why they died and how they could've avoided it. If you die because the other guy had more aim or because you let them get behind you, then it's understandable and not very frustrating. When you get OHKO by a Thale hundreds of meters away that isn't rendered, can't be scanned and can't be killed by you? 1-2HKO weapons negate the opposing player's skill by allowing a skilled player to kill them (Tactical Snipers can Double Tap you; I die to more of these than Thales) before they can reasonably react. It's supposed to be a scale and CCP places a 100kg weight on one side. At the same time, with the normal variant's slow fire rate, if the bullet does low damage then the Sniper can basically never kill anyone, which is unfair to snipers. I hate Sniper Rifles in most games. It's harder to balance in Dust 514 because the maps are huge with many towers and hills and there isn't a lot of cover on the ground. Unlike, say, Killzone, where a skilled Assault Rifle user can kill the average Sniper with good aim, Sniper Rifles have hundreds of meters in range advantage. Even if you see a sniper, unless you also have a sniper rifle, you can't do anything about him. Forges are even worse game design because they OHKO you NO MATTER WHAT YOU'RE WEARING. In fact, fully tanked PRO suits can be easier to OHKO than standard suits because they often move a little slower due to armor plates. Heavies are hilariously easy to one shot with Forge guns. Several times I've seen the enemy team has a lot of Heavies, so I swap to Militia Forge + Basic Heavy Frame and sit on a tower. Hold button, slowly sweep over area, let go as soon as reticule goes red. OHKO. 17/2. Forge Guns are a problem because they have a TTK of 0 seconds. No one can react to that. Snipers are fine... Working as intended.. A skilled thales sniper will oneshot any suit almost 80% of the time.. because they really only hit headhot's or miss. The snipers who shoot to just hit.. are not really snipers.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2870	Posted - 2013.10.28 18:47:00 - [118] - Quote Bethhy wrote: And if they are basing the TTK from uprising launch? where they lost over half their active population in one patch... They need to go back to beta where everyone still lives... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZI6msPfY7Y And incase you wonder why we vet's love the old beta concept... The game was just cooler then... Even the graphix where 100 times better looking IMO. They have made it cartoony and lost that "DUST" element [u]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnLOT4ljptM/u] (Do you really think DUST gameplay has done anything in the 1 year since that worth note?) From the first video, the TTK was also too short then. If you thought it was better then, you're part of the problem. TTK there is still much shorter than a game like Halo or CoD where you can't actually choose to fit shields/armor. We don't need CoD in space, and skills are made pointless by the fact they don't matter.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles 230	Posted - 2013.10.28 19:41:00 - [119] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Bethhy wrote: And if they are basing the TTK from uprising launch? where they lost over half their active population in one patch... They need to go back to beta where everyone still lives... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZI6msPfY7Y And incase you wonder why we vet's love the old beta concept... The game was just cooler then... Even the graphix where 100 times better looking IMO. They have made it cartoony and lost that "DUST" element [u]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnLOT4ljptM/u] (Do you really think DUST gameplay has done anything in the 1 year since that worth note?) From the first video, the TTK was also too short then. If you thought it was better then, you're part of the problem. TTK there is still much shorter than a game like Halo or CoD where you can't actually choose to fit shields/armor. We don't need CoD in space, and skills are made pointless by the fact they don't matter. Seriously? because ask any person considered to be competitive top 100 gun gamer's... And the TTk in beta was awesome.. everything about the gun game in beta was awesome... Most of us are still here today because we got addicted to this game in beta... And everytime we log on it makes us sad at what DUST has become from people who just don't know much...understand the history or that it even has repeated itself like 10 times already.... but those people cough have a giant opinion... Just go back and do the research... we had suit's that where half the health point values and guns that did just as much damage... but gun game was at an all time high... Even hit detection is no different.. So let's ask what is the change that made this problem.... Ahhhhh Aim assist... welcome to the giant elephant all you users keep trying to explain away. You can nerf damage and change weapon ranges and do whatever... a computer generated aiming system takes any dualing potential based on players skill a way... and makes this giant TTk issue. when gunning... OHKO weapons aside... shakes fist at CCP
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1300	Posted - 2013.10.28 19:52:00 - [120] - Quote Why do we care what some "top 100" tryhards think? I don't care about their epeen, I want character customization to matter. Right now it doesn't. I have 19 million SP right now and if I suddenly dropped to 12 million, I wouldn't know the difference. I'd just not train the armor, shield and medic skills...all blam, no tank or support. There would be no difference in the game. None. If I wanted a shooter like that I wouldn't be playing Dust, I'd be playing call of duty. We have that game already. We want something different.



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