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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 178 post(s) |
Haerr
The Rainbow Effect
Negative-Feedback
2
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Posted - 2015.05.30 12:23:00 -
[36841] - Quote
Gimme a sec and I'll check out the specific movement speeds.
KUNG FURY - By Laser Unicorns
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
10
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Posted - 2015.05.30 12:28:00 -
[36842] - Quote
Haerr wrote:I think that the Assaults strength (comparative strength towards Logis, Commandos, and Sentinels) comes more from the ability to dictate how and when an engagement happens through mobility and regen. While the other dropsuit roles have, more or less, clearly defined roles ( Scouts have dampening & cloak, Logis have Equipment, Commandos 2 Weapons, Sentinels Heavy Weapons ) Assaults do not.
First lets look at how a few variables line up.
Scan Profile: Scout > Assault > Logistics > Commando > Sentinel
Total Base HP: Sentinel > Commando > Assault > Logistics > Scout
Movement Speed: Scout > Assault > Logistics > Commando > Sentinel
Stamina: Scout > Assault > Logistics > Commando > Sentinel
Stamina Regen: Scout > Assault > Logistics > Commando > Sentinel
Shield Recharge Rate: Scout > Assault > Logistcs/Sentinel > Commando
Shield Recharge Delay: Scout > Sentinel > Logistics > Assault/Commando
Shield Depleted Recharge Delay: Scout > Sentinel > Logistics > Assault/Commando
There is a clear problem with Shield Stats since they have yet to receive attention since Rattati took over the helm, they don't particularly line up in any way except for Commandos being universally boned. But with the attention that Speed vs HP and Logi & Commandos are getting atm it is bound to get at least some attention.
As for my preferences: (Not certain that this is viable at all but what the hell)
HP: Logistics > Medium Frames > Assaults
Movement Speed: Assaults > Medium Frames > Logistics
Stamina & Stamina Regen: Assaults > Medium Frames > Logistics
HP Regen: Assaults > Medium Frames > Logistics
EQ Slots: (4)Logistics > (2)Medium Frames > (1)Assaults
So for me the defined roles of the Assaults are: mobility and regen (and enough HP to make use of them).
Makes perfect sense to me!
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Fristname Family name
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
179
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Posted - 2015.05.30 12:41:00 -
[36843] - Quote
Nachos wrote:Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote:Who knew going solo could be so... relaxing...?  can't tell if sarcastic or troll...
well its relaxing for me... i recently have ended up redline camping with a officer forge gun :3 or proto gear. or i just go out and blah.... whatever just do crap.. but on my scout i got the highest speed in the game sprinting along jumping at every things face with my knives being waved wildly in the air.... also i die about 20times....
Join the in game chat
Trading_Center and invite your trading buddies
look forward to seeing you there spread the word
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Haerr
The Rainbow Effect
Negative-Feedback
2
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Posted - 2015.05.30 12:49:00 -
[36844] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Haerr wrote:Stuff
So for me the defined roles of the Assaults are: mobility and regen (and enough HP to make use of them). Makes perfect sense to me! Your outline is a 'bit more robust, but I believe your thinking is shared by Redbleach and Pokey. Do the numbers in Red's Model more-or-less fit your framework?
Not quite, I would prefer it if the slowest race of the slowest role of a frame size is as quick as the fastest race of the fastest role of frame size:
Numbers! (tab seperated, can be copy-pasted into any spreadsheeting program)
Baseline
FrameLight5.35
FrameMedium4.75
FrameHeavy4.15
RoleFast0.15
RoleMedium0
RoleSlow-0.15
RaceFast0.15
RaceMedium0
RaceSlow-0.15
FrameRoleRace
LightFastFast5.65
LightFastNormal5.5
LightFastSlow5.35
LightNormalFast5.5
LightNormalNormal5.35
LightNormalSlow5.2
LightSlowFast5.35
LightSlowNormal5.2
LightSlowSlow5.05
MediumFastFast5.05
MediumFastNormal4.9
MediumFastSlow4.75
MediumNormalFast4.9
MediumNormalNormal4.75
MediumNormalSlow4.6
MediumSlowFast4.75
MediumSlowNormal4.6
MediumSlowSlow4.45
HeavyFastFast4.45
HeavyFastNormal4.3
HeavyFastSlow4.15
HeavyNormalFast4.3
HeavyNormalNormal4.15
HeavyNormalSlow4
HeavySlowFast4.15
HeavySlowNormal4
HeavySlowSlow3.85
New Light Frame Role: 1 EQ, no dampening bonus, no cloak fitting bonus, bonus to ? (knives for minmatar for example) (Light, Fast)
Light Frame: 2 EQ (Light, Normal)
Scout: 2 EQ, dampening bonus, cloak bonus (Light, Slow)
^ This way all races get to have a dampened light suits as well as a quick one.
Assault: 1 EQ (Medium, Fast)
Medium Frame: 2 EQ (Medium, Normal)
Logistics: 4 EQ (Medium, Slow)
Commando: 1 EQ (Heavy, Fast)
Heavy Frame: 0 EQ (Heavy, Normal)
Sentinel: 0 EQ (Heavy, Slow)
KUNG FURY - By Laser Unicorns
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Haerr
The Rainbow Effect
Negative-Feedback
2
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Posted - 2015.05.30 12:54:00 -
[36845] - Quote
really not sure about the light suits, that came more as a way of making the movement numbers fit better
KUNG FURY - By Laser Unicorns
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Haerr
The Rainbow Effect
Negative-Feedback
2
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Posted - 2015.05.30 13:16:00 -
[36846] - Quote
I also think that changing the sprint/strafe/backwards modifiers for a few specific suits is a reallly bad idea.
KUNG FURY - By Laser Unicorns
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
10
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Posted - 2015.05.30 13:23:00 -
[36847] - Quote
Haerr wrote:
Numbers! (tab seperated, can be copy-pasted into any spreadsheeting program)
Baseline
FrameLight5.35
FrameMedium4.75
FrameHeavy4.15
RoleFast0.15
RoleMedium0
RoleSlow-0.15
RaceFast0.15
RaceMedium0
RaceSlow-0.15
FrameRoleRace
LightFastFast5.65
LightFastNormal5.5
LightFastSlow5.35
LightNormalFast5.5
LightNormalNormal5.35
LightNormalSlow5.2
LightSlowFast5.35
LightSlowNormal5.2
LightSlowSlow5.05
MediumFastFast5.05
MediumFastNormal4.9
MediumFastSlow4.75
MediumNormalFast4.9
MediumNormalNormal4.75
MediumNormalSlow4.6
MediumSlowFast4.75
MediumSlowNormal4.6
MediumSlowSlow4.45
HeavyFastFast4.45
HeavyFastNormal4.3
HeavyFastSlow4.15
HeavyNormalFast4.3
HeavyNormalNormal4.15
HeavyNormalSlow4
HeavySlowFast4.15
HeavySlowNormal4
HeavySlowSlow3.85
Scout: 2 EQ (Light, Fast)
Light Frame: 2 EQ (Light, Normal)
New Light Frame Role: Pilot maybe? (Light, Slow)
Assault: 1 EQ (Medium, Fast)
Medium Frame: 2 EQ (Medium, Normal)
Logistics: 4 EQ (Medium, Slow)
Commando: 1 EQ (Heavy, Fast)
Heavy Frame: 0 EQ (Heavy, Normal)
Sentinel: 0 EQ (Heavy, Slow)
Edit: oops!
Gotcha ... working this into existing framework ...
Within Role
Normal Unit: X (GA/CA)
Fast Unit: X+0.15 (MN)
Slow Unit: X-0.15 (AM)
Extremes
Fastest Light Frame: 5.65
Slowest Light Frame: 5.05
Fastest Medium Frame: 5.05
Slowest Medium Frame: 4.45
Fastest Heavy Frame: 4.45
Slowest Heavy Frame: 3.85
How's it look so far?
Haerr's Model
PS: Adjusted Light Frame HP to fit the curve
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Haerr
The Rainbow Effect
Negative-Feedback
2
|
Posted - 2015.05.30 13:25:00 -
[36848] - Quote
Would you updating the quote since I edited the post?
KUNG FURY - By Laser Unicorns
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
10
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Posted - 2015.05.30 13:32:00 -
[36849] - Quote
Haerr wrote:Would you updating the quote since I edited the post? Also would you mind putting the Pilot suit in there?  Hold on I'll log onto google docs and mess around with it for a bit!
Updated!
Also, I "staggered" your Basic Med and Basic Light values out of the progression, so your chart could be compared against those of like type.
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Haerr
The Rainbow Effect
Negative-Feedback
2
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Posted - 2015.05.30 13:53:00 -
[36850] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Haerr wrote:Would you updating the quote since I edited the post? Also would you mind putting the Pilot suit in there? Hold on I'll log onto google docs and mess around with it for a bit! Updated quote! Also, I "staggered" your Basic Med and Basic Light values out of the progression, so your chart could be compared against those of like type. Edit: Updated Feedback thread. Looks sharp, Haerr.
Looks like the Light Frame got the Pilots movement, would you mind updating it?
Thanks for doing that spreadsheet btw I think it helps out a lot for the speed hp discussion! Props to you man +1
KUNG FURY - By Laser Unicorns
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Haerr
The Rainbow Effect
Negative-Feedback
2
|
Posted - 2015.05.30 13:55:00 -
[36851] - Quote
Here is a spreadsheet where the movement numbers have been made reliant on the baselines, should make it a little bit quicker to edit https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/132uZwTinGhMGHlbP8htXbXcCYLMc7pUUV1ve-gvApmk/edit?usp=sharing
KUNG FURY - By Laser Unicorns
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
10
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Posted - 2015.05.30 14:08:00 -
[36852] - Quote
Are you OK with Commandos way down there with Heavies? I've always thought of them as an "in-between".
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Haerr
The Rainbow Effect
Negative-Feedback
3
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Posted - 2015.05.30 14:17:00 -
[36853] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Are you OK with Commandos way down there with Heavies? I've always thought of them as an "in-between".
Well... Yes.
Even having the slowest medium suit being tangent in speed to the fastest heavy suit somewhat irks me. I would much prefer it if there were some degree of seperation between frame sizes but with the limited movement span (5.65 -> 3.85) I felt that there wasn't much choice in the matter.
KUNG FURY - By Laser Unicorns
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Haerr
The Rainbow Effect
Negative-Feedback
3
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Posted - 2015.05.30 14:31:00 -
[36854] - Quote
Hmm my bad/shitpost to half-decentpost ratio has been greatly disturbed by all of this ^ 
I suddenly have the urge to make posts about Officer Vehicle Hardeners! 
KUNG FURY - By Laser Unicorns
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Llast 326
An Arkhos
7
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Posted - 2015.05.30 14:34:00 -
[36855] - Quote
Haerr wrote:Hmm my bad/shitpost to half-decentpost ratio has been greatly disturbed by all of this ^ I suddenly have the urge to make posts about Officer Vehicle Hardeners!
Officer HardenersGǪ. that is so needed 
Ran into a HAV last night that cycled hardeners for a window of approximately two seconds. Seemed a bit pointless since I was only one of three people against his team of 16
Risk/Reward?
MOAR Ladders
SpadeGǪ Remember your Warbarge
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
10
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Posted - 2015.05.30 14:36:00 -
[36856] - Quote
Haerr wrote:Hmm my bad/shitpost to half-decentpost ratio has been greatly disturbed by all of this ^ I suddenly have the urge to make posts about Officer Vehicle Hardeners!
On the topic, I'll have about 10M SP in reserve soon. Thinking about getting into a vehicle, and I'm thinking that vehicle should be a tank buster. I reread your and Jebus discussion downstairs about anti-tank tanks. Sounds like alpha-oriented Missile Gunloggis aren't "worth it" at the moment. Do you think that'll change?
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
10
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Posted - 2015.05.30 14:39:00 -
[36857] - Quote
Llast 326 wrote:Haerr wrote:Hmm my bad/shitpost to half-decentpost ratio has been greatly disturbed by all of this ^ I suddenly have the urge to make posts about Officer Vehicle Hardeners! Officer HardenersGǪ. that is so needed Ran into a HAV last night that cycled hardeners for a window of approximately two seconds. Seemed a bit pointless since I was only one of three people against his team of 16 Risk/Reward?
I'm pretty much done trying to get Packed REs onto blaster tanks. My death rate is near perfect ... out of the past 20 attempts, I've probably died 18 times. Definitely interested in alternative AV options. May even dump SP into a Sent/Forge.
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Haerr
The Rainbow Effect
Negative-Feedback
3
|
Posted - 2015.05.30 14:50:00 -
[36858] - Quote
I have to insist that you hold off on speccing into vehicles atm.
Recent post about it downstairs: LINK
Have someone (me for example) call in vehicles for you so that you can play around with them before deciding to spec into them yourself. (And yes I realise that a large part of the fun is making your own fits, this is mearly so that you can get a feeling for how the vehicle balance is at the moment.)
KUNG FURY - By Laser Unicorns
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Haerr
The Rainbow Effect
Negative-Feedback
3
|
Posted - 2015.05.30 14:53:00 -
[36859] - Quote
Llast 326 wrote:Haerr wrote:Hmm my bad/shitpost to half-decentpost ratio has been greatly disturbed by all of this ^ I suddenly have the urge to make posts about Officer Vehicle Hardeners! Officer HardenersGǪ. that is so needed I know, right!  Llast 326 wrote:Ran into a HAV last night that cycled hardeners for a window of approximately two seconds. Seemed a bit pointless since I was only one of three people against his team of 16 Risk/Reward? Completely fair and balanced. 
KUNG FURY - By Laser Unicorns
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Dreis ShadowWeaver
0uter.Heaven
4
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Posted - 2015.05.30 17:51:00 -
[36860] - Quote
I might skill into tanks for some lolz.
Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel
My Minja Blog
Caldari blood, Matari heart <3
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Dreis ShadowWeaver
0uter.Heaven
4
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Posted - 2015.05.30 17:54:00 -
[36861] - Quote
I'm was really disappointed yesterday when I was searching for a really old mail and realised that all mail older than 30 days gets deleted. 
It hasn't made any difference to performance.
Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel
My Minja Blog
Caldari blood, Matari heart <3
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IAmDuncanIdaho II
Nos Nothi
2
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Posted - 2015.05.30 20:09:00 -
[36862] - Quote
I took a quick look as another thread somewhere (I think Aero's) was for my taste trying too hard to give the figures symmetry for the sake of symmetry, but that sheet there if I've understood it correctly looks like it gives enough diversity.
I was for a second tempted to suggest there could be more room between the fastest medium frame and the slowest light (they are both at 5.05 m/s) but then I realised that the slowest light would have other bonuses, and the fastest medium's bonuses probably *are* its speed...if that makes sense.
Nice clear spreadsheet btw - you guys really put a lot of effort into this stuff. I always get lost when the discussion gets deep ;-) |
IAmDuncanIdaho II
Nos Nothi
2
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Posted - 2015.05.30 20:15:00 -
[36863] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Haerr wrote:Hmm my bad/shitpost to half-decentpost ratio has been greatly disturbed by all of this ^ I suddenly have the urge to make posts about Officer Vehicle Hardeners! On the topic, I'll have about 10M SP in reserve soon. Thinking about getting into a vehicle, and I'm thinking that vehicle should be a tank buster. I reread your and Jebus discussion downstairs about anti-tank tanks. Sounds like alpha-oriented Missile Gunloggis aren't "worth it" at the moment. Do you think that'll change?
I think you might need more than 10m SP - I can check my pilot alt if you want. I've got a decent ADV Maddie specced up on there but every time I suck up the guts to go tank-driving (I've probably driven a tank three times in total) Scotty takes forever and I chicken out.
Haerr wrote:I have to insist that you hold off on speccing into vehicles atm. Recent post about it downstairs: LINKHave someone (me for example) call in vehicles for you so that you can play around with them before deciding to spec into them yourself. (And yes I realise that a large part of the fun is making your own fits, this is mearly so that you can get a feeling for how the vehicle balance is at the moment.)
Hey if you see me on I too can offer this service to you ;-)
[edit]
PS
I always thought running a railgun was the best anti-vehicle fit. |
IAmDuncanIdaho II
Nos Nothi
2
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Posted - 2015.05.30 20:20:00 -
[36864] - Quote
Haerr wrote:Kaeru Nayiri wrote:I always play dust with a cup of oolong. Helps me keep my sanity. Nice! atm I am into Lapsang soushong... souchong... sochoung? What ever it is called it is all smokey goodness. Also my GalScout has been working terribly for me lately, or I have grown out of touch with how to play it, so I've started running this instead: GalAss gk.0 3cPDs 2cKCs Adv Cloak M1 Locus Breach ScP Federation Specialist Shotgun 2cPE 1bSE
Ahh yes Haerr I see you have found the amazing "Scout-Heavy" suit. It's an almost guaranteed 1 KDR for a scrub...surprised more aren't running it. Love that you put a cloak on there though - I never ran the PRO, only the ADV ;-)
Though I've been tempted to go back to this fit for a bit seeing as its speedy days may be drawing to a close. |
Pseudogenesis
Nos Nothi
2
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Posted - 2015.05.31 01:04:00 -
[36865] - Quote
Haerr wrote:Kaeru Nayiri wrote:I always play dust with a cup of oolong. Helps me keep my sanity. Nice! atm I am into Lapsang soushong... souchong... sochoung? What ever it is called it is all smokey goodness.
Jasmine and mint tea for me. Jasmine is kittening awesome
Stabby-stabber extraordinaire Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ
I stabbed Rattati once, you know.
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Dreis ShadowWeaver
0uter.Heaven
4
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Posted - 2015.05.31 01:19:00 -
[36866] - Quote
I love the PLC!!!
Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel
My Minja Blog
Caldari blood, Matari heart <3
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Dreis ShadowWeaver
0uter.Heaven
4
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Posted - 2015.05.31 01:23:00 -
[36867] - Quote
I just got hatemail whilst on my alt for using the PLC.
The best part was it was from someone I knew on Dreis. Their reaction was so priceless when I revealed my identity.
Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel
My Minja Blog
Caldari blood, Matari heart <3
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Nachos
234
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Posted - 2015.05.31 01:38:00 -
[36868] - Quote
Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote:I just got hatemail whilst on my alt for using the PLC. The best part was it was from someone I knew on Dreis. Their reaction was so priceless when I revealed my identity.
I got over that thing a while ago...is fun for a few days. Never got hatemail using it though, this one time i was in a STD min scout w/ PLC and flaylock, tried to 1v1 an amarr assault and won! Got 'GG good shot' mail...
On a sidenote...
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
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GRIM GEAR
Nos Nothi
488
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Posted - 2015.05.31 02:38:00 -
[36869] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:GRIM GEAR wrote:Im failing at nova knifing I seem to only hit with one blade, am I suppose to do some little jig/ strafe for both blades to connect? Could it be latency related?
I guess it could be 
Cup of tea anyone?
I came here to mingle can you hear that jingle that would be me lingle.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
10
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Posted - 2015.05.31 02:57:00 -
[36870] - Quote
GRIM GEAR wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:GRIM GEAR wrote:Im failing at nova knifing I seem to only hit with one blade, am I suppose to do some little jig/ strafe for both blades to connect? Could it be latency related? I guess it could be
Didn't mean to imply that it was on your end, Grim. ALways seems that framerate in CQC is hit hardest, be it in PC or when up against laggy opponents.
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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