Seeing a dot show up on screen doesnGÇÖt make you easier to hit like being slow like a heavy does.
Sure, you can anticipate them, but they can anticipate you too.
See, the way scanning mechanics work right now is this:
If you have line of sight, they shown up.
If you use a scanner, they show up.
As far as I know, passive scanning is useless garbage, it almost never works.
Active scanners detect everyone, even scouts (Except for Gallente scout, unless its a high level scanner), so giving them a sig radius penalty wonGÇÖt do a thing.
Unless armor tankers donGÇÖt show up on the active scanner, but then you make the thing bad.

This fix is supposed to make shields and armor have unique roles.


Please read GÇ£[P2] Roles of shield and armourGÇ¥, where the roles of shield and armor are covered.


Here are the list of things done, I will then expand on each:
-All plates HP increased by 2x
-Plates movement penalties changed to 5/7.5/10
-Armor reps changed to 5/7.5/10
-Armor reps now have a unique mechanic
-Gallente suits are given an inherent 5hp/s regeneration, helping lower level armor tanking


You might see the 2x HP increase and think GÇ£WTFGÇ¥, and I expected that.
But see, armor is supposed to have much higher HP than shields do, but because we need to use half our slots for reps, the HP gained is lost, while still having less reps.


But then you think GÇ£But didnGÇÖt you just increase reps amount?GÇ¥, and thatGÇÖs true, but hear me out on this.
This is the main part of the idea:
If you read the Roles of shield and armor part, then you would know that shields are skirmishers, they dictate their range, get out of battle, regenerate quickly and come back.
Armor is a brawler, taking a good punch while dealing lots of damage and regenerating under fire, but need repair tools to repair properly outside of battle.
Armor is also slow, which means it canGÇÖt dictate range, and canGÇÖt run out of battle as quickly, and its a very easy target.
Also has problems with power projection, taking time to respond to enemies taking your objectives, or teammates need help.
So taking this into consideration, I have got an idea to solidify the armor tanking role.
When you take damage from an enemy (not just any damage, like fall damage), your reps work at 100%.
The longer time has passed from the last time you took damage, the slower your reps work, down to 25% at the lowest level.
It goes like this:
0-5 seconds = 100%
5-10 seconds = 75%
10-15 seconds = 50%
15 seconds and beyond = 25%


The basic and enhanced plates penalty has been increased, because in its current form, the penalty rises very disproportionately to the HP gained.
This fixes the problem, making complex plates worthwhile.


New plates numbers:
Basic plate = 130HP, -5% speed
Enhanced plate = 174HP - 7.5% speed
Complex plate = 230HP - 10% speed


Some numbers.
Gallente Assault:
210 Armor HP + 230HP + 230HP (2x Complex plates) = 670 HP
The other two slots are used for armor repairers, and in addition to the inherent rep speed this turns into 25hp/s of regeneration at the first 5 seconds you take damage.
After 15 seconds this rep drops to 25%, putting it at 6.25, which is painfully slow.

Excellent post. +1

I would add something to P5:

Although you iterated on this when discussing the Flux Grenade, I feel you should go more in depth in the comparison between how easy it is for shield tank suits to quickly escape combat and quickly recharge Shields vs how difficult it is for armor tank suits to escape and slowly recharge shields.


When shield tanks lose their shields, they run for cover, and more often than not begin recharging even before an armor tanker can close the distance them to finish them off. Then the shield tanker almost immediately comes back out ready for round 2. Meanwhile the armor tanker has the exact same amount of armor(no repairers) or very little more than before the shield tanker took cover, and likely hasn't started even recharging shields as he is armor tanked. Then must face the newly reemerged shield tanker with a significant amount less hp.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, when an armor tanker has lost a significant portion of armor, he must (attempt)
to flee either
a) completely, and find a logistics to repair or supply depot to refit in order to recover hp (if using only plates)

or
b)for an extended period of time to allow his much slower acting armor repairer to recover hp.

alternatively, and more frequently the end result, the armor tanker dies while trying to escape to cover because of their extremely slow speed, or he makes it to cover, but the shield tanker closes the distance faster than hp can be recovered, and makes the kill.

In either of these scenarios, the shield tanker wins the battle, and obtains control of the objective.

Also an EDIT (i'm splitting hairs here) line 4 of P6 should be edited to state "1 more unit of PG"

+1. Yeah. A lot of this comes from separating the posts as I did - the issues link together to create bigger problems all over.
I covered how much more difficult it was for armour tankers to get away in penalties. I think I'll emphasise this as per your recommendation and add some more stuff to the explanation of the flux grenade vs locus grenade.

I'll add a bit more on the importance of mobility as well.

Good catch on the PG thing! I'm particularly happy with you spotting that because it means you read the thing through. Thanks!

Whoops, missed unit 10. This has now been corrected.

where is the preface?


i read the entire thread (yes the whole thing). but, what was going through my mind (and i couldnt help think it), is that all those penalties you described are a heavy suit, without any mods, armor, etc .

those penalties make armor tanking really bad in comparison to shield tanking, and yet are markedly unbaised as those are the actually numbers. nonetheless, the heavy suit itself has all those downsides before it even puts on a single plate...lol

I would like to add that for the roles of armor and shields that armor should not be forced to be slow, in a way. I believe shields should excel in active battle by having high shield repairs and the ability to use armor repair modules. But armor should get the ability to have similar, not better, performance in battle. Making shields and armor follow a strict gameplay type is limiting to the player using the build. I for example like speedy builds, obviously I will never be as effective as a Minmatar in speed but I should have the chance to be as capable in battle as a Caldari suit with similar repair rates and speed. In most games I go for speedy builds, most MMOs I play an assasin or archer, and most FPS I play as a SMG rusher speed has been hardwired into my gaming style for years and Dust 514 punishes me because the suit I picked, in Dust 514 at least doesn't follow this, keep in mind I was following EVE when picking my suit because I thought Gallente suits where the second fastest. Of course they should not be entirely equal, they should individually excel and fail in some aspects, in this case a Caldari suit should excel in active shield repping but not armor, while a Gallente excels in active armor repping but not shields while having equal speed and EHP.

Good post. You might want to explicitly state that the move penalties on plates effect strafe speed as well.

Great thread!
Just an addition to P5 and P8, here are the numbers for Speed Reduction (SR) % -to- Armor HP: ratio.

______________________HP____SR____SR -per- 1 HP
Basic Armor Plates_______65_____3%___0.046%
Advanced Armor Plates____85_____5%___0.059%
Complex Armor Plates____115____10%__0.087%

Basic Reactive Plates_____15_____1%___0.067%
Advanced Reactive Plates__25____2%___0.08%
Complex Reactive Plates___45____4%___0.089%

While you've covered the fact that the Speed Reduction scale is not proportionate to the benefits, it's a good visual to see that Complex Armor Plates have almost twice as much Speed Reduction per-HP than the Basic Armor Plates do. The Reactive Plates, across the board, have worse ratio's than any of the Armor Plates underlining the fact that they are less desirable than Plates + Reppers.

So I'm new to these forums but not the game and my question is, What can I do to draw attention to this thread?

where is the preface?


i read the entire thread (yes the whole thing). but, what was going through my mind (and i couldnt help think it), is that all those penalties you described are a heavy suit, without any mods, armor, etc .

those penalties make armor tanking really bad in comparison to shield tanking, and yet are markedly unbaised as those are the actually numbers. nonetheless, the heavy suit itself has all those downsides before it even puts on a single plate...lol

While that's true it must be noted that both types of Tanking have already developed their own identities.

Armour is already considered the brawler type, while shield the skirmishers. You are right no one should be forced into a playstyle but I think the distinction between the two types must be made otherwise there is no point in having two.

Armour fits my playstyle well I like to be right in the middle of things with the bullets flying, tanks driving by, etc. I feel that Armour should better facilitate the brawlers amongst us, while shields the more mobile and hit and run players.

^^the idea is that the particular efficiency of one armor over their other should suppliment a players playstyle rather than dictate