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Cat Merc
Oculus Felis
1833
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 02:58:00 -
[451] - Quote
SnakeSix wrote:Been reading on other threads. Will doubling the current armor bonuses balance things out? bonuses? |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
316
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 04:46:00 -
[452] - Quote
Currently I'm ******* done with this.
I want to make am AmarrI RP toon, the one I made and spent money on was something I was proud of walked out of academy with less than 750 SP unspent with a KDR of 11 damn proud of that.
Joined the big boys only to find im goddamn not even able to compete due to lack of SP, Armour is gimped as hell, its not even possible to play armour all that well with its slow movement speed that means I'm being run down by every type of shield user in town.
Explosive weapons with no draw back to being used, while anti shield guns continue to sit with numerous repercussions for continued use including potential to kill oneself....
It's all just getting to me. After that my 11KDR went down to 3....then to 2.5, then to 2 and now its dropped below two because I don't have the SP, don't have any bonues for using armour tanked toons..... no wonder Im AFKING through this 3x SP even even if I did get 4 mill SP at the end of it (my current 2.5+ the 1.5) It wont fix the ******* glaring issues CCP is cocking around with and not fixing.
******* do something CCP |
RINON114
B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance
227
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 07:44:00 -
[453] - Quote
Put reactive and ferroscale in low slots, could that help? |
zzZaXxx
The Exemplars Top Men.
55
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 11:45:00 -
[454] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Currently I'm ******* done with this.
I want to make am AmarrI RP toon, the one I made and spent money on was something I was proud of walked out of academy with less than 750 SP unspent with a KDR of 11 damn proud of that.
Joined the big boys only to find im goddamn not even able to compete due to lack of SP, Armour is gimped as hell, its not even possible to play armour all that well with its slow movement speed that means I'm being run down by every type of shield user in town.
Explosive weapons with no draw back to being used, while anti shield guns continue to sit with numerous repercussions for continued use including potential to kill oneself....
It's all just getting to me. After that my 11KDR went down to 3....then to 2.5, then to 2 and now its dropped below two because I don't have the SP, don't have any bonues for using armour tanked toons..... no wonder Im AFKING through this 3x SP even even if I did get 4 mill SP at the end of it (my current 2.5+ the 1.5) It wont fix the ******* glaring issues CCP is cocking around with and not fixing.
******* do something CCP
You need to cap out with boosters during this event. And take this time to start a new toon and cap it out with boosters too so you can try the alternative play style. As for Amarr, well eventually you'll get less heat build up. Until then I would get up to scrambler rifle 4 and use the assault scrambler rifle. buy a couple aurum ones to check it out. it's awesome, and it optimal range was just increased from 30 to 45. Use it to get shields down then flaylock for armor if you're in range. Forget about your KDR for now. Just learn. Join a corp that has guys that you can squad up with and learn from. You're slow yes so stay with others if you can and use cover. if a scout comes at you take his shields down with 2-3 SR shots and then flaylock his face off. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
434
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 13:05:00 -
[455] - Quote
RINON114 wrote:Put reactive and ferroscale in low slots, could that help?
They are in the low slots? If you mean high slots, thats a bad idea because the more armor we stack the faster we die from explosives and it makes no difference in EHP. Also it would make shield suits the best armor tanks due to their 4-5 high slots. |
RINON114
B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance
227
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 13:08:00 -
[456] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:RINON114 wrote:Put reactive and ferroscale in low slots, could that help? They are in the low slots? If you mean high slots, thats a bad idea because the more armor we stack the faster we die from explosives and it makes no difference in EHP. Also it would make shield suits the best armor tanks due to their 4-5 high slots. Oh my goodness lol, sorry for the noob mistake! Yes I did mean highs. It might not be the best solution but it would be worth a try. Sure a locus would kill us but to be fair I got killed by a flux while stood at a supply depot. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
319
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 13:14:00 -
[457] - Quote
zzZaXxx wrote:True Adamance wrote:Currently I'm ******* done with this.
I want to make am AmarrI RP toon, the one I made and spent money on was something I was proud of walked out of academy with less than 750 SP unspent with a KDR of 11 damn proud of that.
Joined the big boys only to find im goddamn not even able to compete due to lack of SP, Armour is gimped as hell, its not even possible to play armour all that well with its slow movement speed that means I'm being run down by every type of shield user in town.
Explosive weapons with no draw back to being used, while anti shield guns continue to sit with numerous repercussions for continued use including potential to kill oneself....
It's all just getting to me. After that my 11KDR went down to 3....then to 2.5, then to 2 and now its dropped below two because I don't have the SP, don't have any bonues for using armour tanked toons..... no wonder Im AFKING through this 3x SP even even if I did get 4 mill SP at the end of it (my current 2.5+ the 1.5) It wont fix the ******* glaring issues CCP is cocking around with and not fixing.
******* do something CCP You need to cap out with boosters during this event. And take this time to start a new toon and cap it out with boosters too so you can try the alternative play style. As for Amarr, well eventually you'll get less heat build up. Until then I would get up to scrambler rifle 4 and use the assault scrambler rifle. buy a couple aurum ones to check it out. it's awesome, and it optimal range was just increased from 30 to 45. Use it to get shields down then flaylock for armor if you're in range. Forget about your KDR for now. Just learn. Join a corp that has guys that you can squad up with and learn from. You're slow yes so stay with others if you can and use cover. if a scout comes at you take his shields down with 2-3 SR shots and then flaylock his face off.
..... I know how to play an amarrian dropsuit but thanks for the advice anyway.... im also in the only amarrian RP corp out there. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
434
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 13:16:00 -
[458] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Currently I'm ******* done with this.
I want to make am AmarrI RP toon, the one I made and spent money on was something I was proud of walked out of academy with less than 750 SP unspent with a KDR of 11 damn proud of that.
Joined the big boys only to find im goddamn not even able to compete due to lack of SP, Armour is gimped as hell, its not even possible to play armour all that well with its slow movement speed that means I'm being run down by every type of shield user in town.
Explosive weapons with no draw back to being used, while anti shield guns continue to sit with numerous repercussions for continued use including potential to kill oneself....
It's all just getting to me. After that my 11KDR went down to 3....then to 2.5, then to 2 and now its dropped below two because I don't have the SP, don't have any bonues for using armour tanked toons..... no wonder Im AFKING through this 3x SP even even if I did get 4 mill SP at the end of it (my current 2.5+ the 1.5) It wont fix the ******* glaring issues CCP is cocking around with and not fixing.
******* do something CCP
We know CCP and they won't balance suits until maybe uprising 1.7 (4 months +) they are much more satisfied with realising useless new things, than reworking all of the suits. Its not just armor thats broken its everything, all the suits, all the roles, all of the bonuses, most of the weapons, and vehicles everything is broken. CCP does not understand that what makes a good tactical game is giving everything small advantages against other things, not huge obvious advantages. Look at explosives they do 135% damage vs armor, this is huge specially since there is not that hurts shield like this, and there never will be according to their roadmap for future weapons. CCP is extremely lazy when it comes to balance, these issues existed before chromosome but since we had no racial variants what most players did is use the shield variant of suits. These issues also exist in EVE but atleast CCP started fixing them in EVE, 10 years later. I just made a Minmatar assault alt, and its so much gunner playing with a shield suit, I only have 400 EHP but I'm not worried about some blueberry with a flaylock blowing me up.to a thousand pieces. |
TheGoebel
Kite Co. Couriers
27
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 14:22:00 -
[459] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote: CCP does not understand that what makes a good tactical game is giving everything small advantages against other things, not huge obvious advantages. Look at explosives they do 135% damage vs armor, this is huge specially since there is not that hurts shield like this, and there never will be according to their roadmap for future weapons. In all fairness CCP thinks explosive weapons do 120% damage armor.
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Cat Merc
Oculus Felis
1851
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 14:24:00 -
[460] - Quote
Cat, I'm a kitty cat, and I dance dance dance and I dance dance dance. |
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DRDEEZENUTSZ TWOpointo
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
54
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 17:45:00 -
[461] - Quote
TheGoebel wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote: CCP does not understand that what makes a good tactical game is giving everything small advantages against other things, not huge obvious advantages. Look at explosives they do 135% damage vs armor, this is huge specially since there is not that hurts shield like this, and there never will be according to their roadmap for future weapons. In all fairness CCP thinks explosive weapons do 120% damage armor.
They still shouldn't blast through my 202 shield and kill my 436 armor. |
TheGoebel
Kite Co. Couriers
29
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 21:51:00 -
[462] - Quote
DRDEEZENUTSZ TWOpointo wrote:TheGoebel wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote: CCP does not understand that what makes a good tactical game is giving everything small advantages against other things, not huge obvious advantages. Look at explosives they do 135% damage vs armor, this is huge specially since there is not that hurts shield like this, and there never will be according to their roadmap for future weapons. In all fairness CCP thinks explosive weapons do 120% damage armor. They still shouldn't blast through my 202 shield and kill my 436 armor. Yeah most independent testing has the damage modifier over 130%. Don't know where the discrepancy is though. Flaylocks fire too fast for me to grab numbers so I can't do it mid-battle. |
DildoMcnutz
The Tickle Monsters
44
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 00:07:00 -
[463] - Quote
DRDEEZENUTSZ TWOpointo wrote:TheGoebel wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote: CCP does not understand that what makes a good tactical game is giving everything small advantages against other things, not huge obvious advantages. Look at explosives they do 135% damage vs armor, this is huge specially since there is not that hurts shield like this, and there never will be according to their roadmap for future weapons. In all fairness CCP thinks explosive weapons do 120% damage armor. They still shouldn't blast through my 202 shield and kill my 436 armor.
Is it just me or when a grenade goes off and gets through your shield it then applies the grenades full damage to your armour rather than what is left over? It certainly feels that way to me at times. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
447
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 00:21:00 -
[464] - Quote
DildoMcnutz wrote:DRDEEZENUTSZ TWOpointo wrote:TheGoebel wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote: CCP does not understand that what makes a good tactical game is giving everything small advantages against other things, not huge obvious advantages. Look at explosives they do 135% damage vs armor, this is huge specially since there is not that hurts shield like this, and there never will be according to their roadmap for future weapons. In all fairness CCP thinks explosive weapons do 120% damage armor. They still shouldn't blast through my 202 shield and kill my 436 armor. Is it just me or when a grenade goes off and gets through your shield it then applies the grenades full damage to your armour rather than what is left over? It certainly feels that way to me at times.
Hmmm... thats a good question.
EDIT: The answer is no, detonated a grenade in my hand with 216 shields and 182 armor, I lived. |
Cat Merc
Oculus Felis
1888
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 00:22:00 -
[465] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:DildoMcnutz wrote:DRDEEZENUTSZ TWOpointo wrote:TheGoebel wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote: CCP does not understand that what makes a good tactical game is giving everything small advantages against other things, not huge obvious advantages. Look at explosives they do 135% damage vs armor, this is huge specially since there is not that hurts shield like this, and there never will be according to their roadmap for future weapons. In all fairness CCP thinks explosive weapons do 120% damage armor. They still shouldn't blast through my 202 shield and kill my 436 armor. Is it just me or when a grenade goes off and gets through your shield it then applies the grenades full damage to your armour rather than what is left over? It certainly feels that way to me at times. Hmmm... thats a good question. No, they just do extreme damage so it feels like that. Core locus grenade kills 923.07 armor. |
DildoMcnutz
The Tickle Monsters
60
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 00:29:00 -
[466] - Quote
In all fairness that grenade doesn't discriminate and kills any suit dead, i dont think i have seen anyone survive one of those, my corp mates chuck em all the time. |
Cat Merc
Oculus Felis
1930
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 00:33:00 -
[467] - Quote
DildoMcnutz wrote:
In all fairness that grenade doesn't discriminate and kills any suit dead, i dont think i have seen anyone survive one of those, my corp mates chuck em all the time.
461.5 damage against shields. Not nearly the same as armor. Armor gets more than double the hit. |
SnakeSix
Pradox One
12
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 00:38:00 -
[468] - Quote
Shields aren't as OP as most think.. I run with flux grenades ever game now, takes out Cal Logis like nothing. |
DildoMcnutz
The Tickle Monsters
62
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 00:39:00 -
[469] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:DildoMcnutz wrote:
In all fairness that grenade doesn't discriminate and kills any suit dead, i dont think i have seen anyone survive one of those, my corp mates chuck em all the time.
461.5 damage against shields. Not nearly the same as armor. Armor gets more than double the hit.
I haven't done any in game testing so i guess i cant comment but ive seen that grenade blow up the ass of many a merc who had more shield than that upon explosion, im assuming there is less damage the further out in the blast radius? |
Cat Merc
Oculus Felis
1970
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 00:40:00 -
[470] - Quote
SnakeSix wrote:Shields aren't as OP as most think.. I run with flux grenades ever game now, takes out Cal Logis like nothing. Flux grenades drops their shields. Locus grenades outright kills us.
Would only be fair if Flux outright killed them too.
And even if you forget about grenades overall, shields beat the crap out of armor in every way. |
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Cat Merc
Oculus Felis
1970
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 00:41:00 -
[471] - Quote
DildoMcnutz wrote:Cat Merc wrote:DildoMcnutz wrote:
In all fairness that grenade doesn't discriminate and kills any suit dead, i dont think i have seen anyone survive one of those, my corp mates chuck em all the time.
461.5 damage against shields. Not nearly the same as armor. Armor gets more than double the hit. I haven't done any in game testing so i guess i cant comment but ive seen that grenade blow up the ass of many a merc who had more shield than that upon explosion, im assuming there is less damage the further out in the blast radius? They could have been already damaged. |
TheGoebel
Kite Co. Couriers
32
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 00:42:00 -
[472] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote: No, they just do extreme damage so it feels like that. Core locus grenade kills 923.07 armor. That's more then 120% like 78% more. Wait. Math is hard. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
466
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 00:46:00 -
[473] - Quote
TheGoebel wrote:Cat Merc wrote: No, they just do extreme damage so it feels like that. Core locus grenade kills 923.07 armor. That's more then 120% like 78% more. Wait. Math is hard.
CCP says its 120% but they don't know their own game I guess, its more like 70%/135. Take a grenade on a very heavily shielded suit, blow it up in your hands then subtract HP damaged - HP, take that number and divide it by the normal damage of the grenade, and there you have the % multiplier on shields. The same could be done with an armor suit but that requires you carefully dropping your shields and not repairing armor. |
TheGoebel
Kite Co. Couriers
32
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 00:47:00 -
[474] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:TheGoebel wrote:Cat Merc wrote: No, they just do extreme damage so it feels like that. Core locus grenade kills 923.07 armor. That's more then 120% like 78% more. Wait. Math is hard. CCP says its 120% but they don't know their own game I guess, its more like 70%/135. Take a grenade on a very heavily shielded suit, blow it up in your hands then subtract HP damaged - HP, take that number and divide it by the normal damage of the grenade, and there you have the % multiplier on shields. The same could be done with an armor suit but that requires you carefully dropping your shields and not repairing armor. Are we getting corp battles again? Would be great for better testing. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
466
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 00:54:00 -
[475] - Quote
About to risk my 150K suit to test it for you :( |
TheGoebel
Kite Co. Couriers
32
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 01:10:00 -
[476] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:About to risk my 150K suit to test it for you :(
EDIT: 326 shields, took my HP down to 46. That is 280 Damage, 280/400 = 0.7, or 70% damage against shields.
46 shields 526 armor to 88 HP. If I sum that up, which equals 572, divide it by 400, I get 1.43, or 143% damage, but because the 46 HP is affected by a 70% penalty the 143% is slightly lower, but not low enough to be 120%, its not even low enough to be 130%.
Exploding a grenade in my hand is like taking a direct hit from a grenade, so it provides the most accurate damage since at a distance the damage might be lower depending on how CCP calculates explosive damage with radius. Money sent. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
467
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 01:12:00 -
[477] - Quote
TheGoebel wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:About to risk my 150K suit to test it for you :(
EDIT: 326 shields, took my HP down to 46. That is 280 Damage, 280/400 = 0.7, or 70% damage against shields.
46 shields 526 armor to 88 HP. If I sum that up, which equals 572, divide it by 400, I get 1.43, or 143% damage, but because the 46 HP is affected by a 70% penalty the 143% is slightly lower, but not low enough to be 120%, its not even low enough to be 130%.
Exploding a grenade in my hand is like taking a direct hit from a grenade, so it provides the most accurate damage since at a distance the damage might be lower depending on how CCP calculates explosive damage with radius. Money sent.
LMAO I was JK but thanks :P |
TheGoebel
Kite Co. Couriers
32
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 15:36:00 -
[478] - Quote
So I did some easy math. I just looked at what each HP cost you in fitting for different modules. Again, the following calculations the price in fitting for each hit point gained.
Ferro Plates 25 15/2 .6 .08 40 27/7 .675 .175 60 39/14 .65 .233
Reactive Plates -Here I split the fitting in half and divided it for the two roles. 15/1 10/4 .333 .133 - 5 2 25/1 24/9 .48 .18 - 12 4.5 45/2 36/16 .4 .177 - 9 4
Armor Plates 65 10/1 .153 .015 87 20/6 .229 .06 115 30/12 .26 .104
Armor Reppers 2 20/1 10 .5 3 35/5 11.66 1.66 5 45/11 9 2.2
Shield Extenders 22 18/3 .818 .136 33 36/6 1.09 .18 66 54/11 .81 .166
So why do this? I don't know. Really.
I do see a pattern where enhanced versions are often the worst deal.
Complex plates are the best deal overall if you don't factor in the 10% speed reduction.
Reactive plates aren't a very good deal because you're paying a premium in fitting on top of speed. They provide very little bonuses for the module slots as well so that's also a handicap.
Ferro scale seem fairly in line with shield extenders when it comes to cost per hit point. However, Armor tanking is a no-free-lunch proposition meaning that a ferro scale gets pricier when you add the needed armor repairer to the fitting.
So summary? Armor modules in a bubble are often competitive with shield extenders but there are many hidden cost to armor tanking, namely speed reduction and no passive regen. Maybe that's why balancing is hard? CCP may not be considering all the factors? |
D legendary hero
Strong-Arm
290
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 17:36:00 -
[479] - Quote
SnakeSix wrote:Shields aren't as OP as most think.. I run with flux grenades ever game now, takes out Cal Logis like nothing.
indeed i have seen a serious improvement in my game play since i started using flux grenades. still i think flux should do damage to shields and do minminal damage to armor as well. because some of these shield guys dual tank and its kinda rediculous.
the problem with flux grenades is that the flux does inperminant damge, where as the locus grenade does permanant damage. observe.
-throw a flux a few seconds later their shields are back to full, (4 second recharge delay, 25 per second no mods, you can get back 500 shield in 20 seconds. total recharge time needed 24seconds without recharge mods or regulator mods or enegizer mods...lolol)
-throw a locus grenade if they have repair mods their armor is full in a few minutes. (for with 2 proto rep mods you can get back your 300 hp in 30secs.... 300 armor is nothing)
main point: flux grenaeds need a way of doing lasting damage to a shield tanker. per haps even reducing their maximum shield after being hit.
i.e. lets say you have 500 shield. if you get hit with a flux grenade, after you recharge you should only be able to reach 400shields, if it happens again your new max (for that life) will be 300, etc, etc. this way at least lasting damage will be done to shield tankers.
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RINON114
B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance
233
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 15:16:00 -
[480] - Quote
If flux start doing damage to armour I will quit. |
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