First off, +1 for death to shield tanks.

130 to 70 is a 60% swing to my 70% both are quiet large. Also, how does one play to your strengths in dust? I think this will reveal me as a terribad player but I often don't get to choose who I'm fighting. I can't look out across the field to find the scrambler rifler suits and I defiantly can't avoid a good scout with a flaylock. Explosive grenades are ubiquitous, every militia suits gets one, plus they are easy to fit so how do I avoid those, I mean from the obvious don't walk on the grenade indicator.

I apologize if I seem overly aggressive or anything, I welcome discussion, it's just been a frustrating day. That said take the next part with a grain of salt.

If you can only play to your strengths then you can't play an armor tank. Decent reps require either standing on a kill me beacon (nano hive which easily shows up on enemy mini maps) or to hug a logi-bro (everyone should get a hug). Without a fast recharge I have to avoid encounters until I repair, however I am slower even with shenanigans, then the people who want to kill me. Even if I take cover, it can take up to a minute to refill my buffer. 60 seconds is a long time to hide if someone is looking for you. I can't out buffer my foes, I can't out rep them. I certainly could equip dedicated anti-shield weaponry but if I do that why shouldn't I just shield tank? My sp is invested, if I am going to change my skill plan why bother with armor at all? I

I think that post that say "armor is good in a group" or "it's balanced you just can't see it" are outright fallacious and damaging to creating any semblance of balance. Why? The create false parallels that ghetto-ize the armor tankers. They say you can't play like the rest of us but it's okay, you have your niche. But math and experience shows that the niche does not exist and no amount of platitudes about play style will change that.

Interesting. They do indeed work oddly like that.
I can't justify putting them on my fits though, because they remain too difficult to fit and too weak.

Interesting. They do indeed work oddly like that.
I can't justify putting them on my fits though, because they remain too difficult to fit and too weak.

Try 1 enhanced ferro, 1 basic plate, 2. enhanced plates and a complex repairer.

500 HP with an 11.25 HP/s repair rate. It has a few percent less movement penalty though.
What I've been running is triple enhanced plate with dual complex repairers. With that setup I get 470 with 17.5 HP/s and a few percent more movement penalty.

This does give the option of a slightly higher HP build which is slightly faster, at the cost of a significant chunk of your repairing ability. It's a nice option, but it's not really an upgrade.

[P1] Preface

[P2] Roles of shield and armour
Before I launch into the thread proper, the role of both armour and shield tanks needs to be considered. They shouldnGÇÖt be very similar, for most intents and purposes just being identical with different names. No, this would not be a good situation GÇô so armour canGÇÖt simply be brought up to the level of shields.

Instead, both types of tank should have their own tactical situations where they shine, where they can outperform the other in some situations but fall behind in others. I have assumed the following roles for them, based on CCP comments and what I know of both EvE and DUST:


Shield tanks should be skirmishers. They move quickly, unimpeded, and have the ability to use modules like profile dampeners and speed modules, making them faster.

Armour tanks should be brawlers. They move slowly, impeded by the weight of their plates. For this, they have significantly more HP than their shield counterparts, allowing them to stay in a sustained fight for a longer amount of time. They should also be able to dish out more damage directly through the use of damage mods.

These first examples leave out skills for the sake of simplicity, but if they were applied they would widen the gap.
Gallente Assault:
2x Complex armour plate
210 +115 + 115 = 450
Caldari Assault:
4x Complex shield extender
210 + 66 + 66 + 66 + 66 = 474
ThatGÇÖs interesting, the shield tanker appears to have more HP.
The reality is that the Gallente Assault would actually be using enhanced plates, further widening the gap. More on this later.

For Gallente Assault (which really needs an armor related bonus, not shield recharge, to make it work--and it will get it SOON) here's a fit:

Enhanced Ferroscale plate 1: 100% of 0.0%
Basic plate 1: 87% of 3.0%
Basic plate 2: 57.1% of 3.0%
Complex Armor Repairer

439 hp armor
6.3 hp/sec armor rep
4.3% movement penalty

Leaves room for 2 Complex Light Damage Modifiers, Duvolle AR, Core Flaylock, basic grenade, nanohive, and enhanced shield extender.

There you go. You guys just need to play around with this stuff a little. I run the fit that I posted about because I run a lot of high end equipment. It suits my play stile. There is a lot that can be done with this though.

[P1] Preface

[P2] Roles of shield and armour
Before I launch into the thread proper, the role of both armour and shield tanks needs to be considered. They shouldnGÇÖt be very similar, for most intents and purposes just being identical with different names. No, this would not be a good situation GÇô so armour canGÇÖt simply be brought up to the level of shields.

Instead, both types of tank should have their own tactical situations where they shine, where they can outperform the other in some situations but fall behind in others. I have assumed the following roles for them, based on CCP comments and what I know of both EvE and DUST:


Shield tanks should be skirmishers. They move quickly, unimpeded, and have the ability to use modules like profile dampeners and speed modules, making them faster.

Armour tanks should be brawlers. They move slowly, impeded by the weight of their plates. For this, they have significantly more HP than their shield counterparts, allowing them to stay in a sustained fight for a longer amount of time. They should also be able to dish out more damage directly through the use of damage mods.

These first examples leave out skills for the sake of simplicity, but if they were applied they would widen the gap.
Gallente Assault:
2x Complex armour plate
210 +115 + 115 = 450
Caldari Assault:
4x Complex shield extender
210 + 66 + 66 + 66 + 66 = 474
ThatGÇÖs interesting, the shield tanker appears to have more HP.
The reality is that the Gallente Assault would actually be using enhanced plates, further widening the gap. More on this later.

For the sake of diversity I think Higher HP and lower repair is the better options. Maintains a clear pro/con to each tanking type and supports the value of Logi on the field while still making Armor more viable.

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