If flux start doing damage to armour I will quit.

At the cost of your death :P

About to risk my 150K suit to test it for you :(

EDIT:
326 shields, took my HP down to 46. That is 280 Damage, 280/400 = 0.7, or 70% damage against shields.

46 shields 526 armor to 88 HP. If I sum that up, which equals 572, divide it by 400, I get 1.43, or 143% damage, but because the 46 HP is affected by a 70% penalty the 143% is slightly lower, but not low enough to be 120%, its not even low enough to be 130%.

Alternatively, 46 shields @ 70% efficiency = 65.7 HP 'used'.

400-65.7 = 334 damage left, which dealt 526-88 = 438 armor damage.

This implies that armor takes 131% locus damage.

So, 70% shield efficiency, 130% armor efficiency. Seems reasonable.

Seems reasonable.

Generally, the idea seems to be that weapons with -x% to shields to +x% to armor so in that context it does seem reasonable.

60% damage difference is reasonable?

It would be reasonable if we had at least 40-50% more HP than a shield suit, but we have a less HP than them. With the current mechanics explosive damage is extremely unfair. Flux grenade affect everybody equally, but explosives only affect armor suits effectively. There is also no weapon that does high damage against shields, I thought the forge gun did but its actually another 70/130 weapon.

You may be interested in this.

I recently made an idea for nanofibre plates that would increase speed, lower armour and give hp regen. The idea fleshes out a little in the latest post.

These modules would fit in the high slots.

You may be interested in this.

I recently made an idea for nanofibre plates that would increase speed, lower armour and give hp regen. The idea fleshes out a little in the latest post.

These modules would fit in the high slots.

Who are these modules for? An armor tanker can't lose HP, we struggle as it is, and we need our mids to buffer against explosive damage.

Shield tankers would love this. They lose a mid slot, which isn't nothing, and some armor to gain armor regen and speed. Matari suits would eat this up alive.

Is there something I'm missing?

So for fun I thought I'd write down some of the arguments I've heard over this campaign. Please join in if you have a good one.

1. Armor is for buffer. Shield is for fast regen.
I like this because it uses fantasy as facts. An armor tanker who has buffered higher then shields will have a major speed penalty and is unlikely to survive repeated encounters. An armor tank that is balanced will have less HP then a shield tank as well as less regen.

2. Armor doesn't have to deal with flux grenades.
While this is true it's not exactly the silver bullet to balancing. We have a grenade we have to deal with on our own and that is attached to every militia suit a clone starts with. On top of that, flux grenades can't kill they can only prevent you from wanting to enter combat for 10 seconds or so.

3. Not everything is released yet. When that's done then we can talk about balance.
This is one of my favorites. Yes maybe down the pipe there is a weapon that'll do armor damage to every shield point a suit has or something else equally ludicrous. This game is considered released, balance issues should be dealt with as is not TBD. I think this game has great potential, I'm not going to wait ten years before I can recommend it to friends.

4. Armor is fine because of rep guns and nanohives.
While 3 is my favorite this one is my most infuriating. Look, it is a nice bonus to armor to have outside repair sources when shields don't but to there's a reason for this. Armor has no natural repair rate. Most shields are back up before a they could be substantially repaired, the exception being the new commando suit and its 10 hp a sec.
My real reason this pisses me off is that it creates a barrier between solo play and group play. Shields are fine for both while armor would only be good for one. It's an insidious statement that allows for continued imbalance under the guise of unique game play.
The reason why people make this statement is false attribution, people working together will be more effective, doesn't matter if you're a shield tanker or an armor tanker. So when people see or are more effective in a group of armor tankers they assume it's because of the armor but I would say it's for the team work. Team play is a force multiplier which is hard to account for when measure effectiveness.


Well there's mine, do you guys have any?

I have to say that all thought shields still seems superior to amor in most aspects- what Ive noticed is that CCP gave armor tankers more options- These options have allowed us to gain speed and regenerative properties- thus we have made that step towards balance because that what shield tankers ultimately have- lost of tank and very few penalties-

What i think now is that the amount of shields a person can stack without penalty is whats pressing- If i stack 600hp worth of armor - its all going to get taken away in a grenade blast but for shields 600 hp is a pretty substantial amount of chewing for most weapons to accomplish - but I have also notice that if armor tankers do not charge into battle and play their cards right they can excel further than most shield tankers

1- triage hives for all armor tankers

2- dropsuit kinetics

these are two important aspects of all shield tankers-

3- play the back field

It would be reasonable if we had at least 40-50% more HP than a shield suit, but we have a less HP than them. With the current mechanics explosive damage is extremely unfair. Flux grenade affect everybody equally, but explosives only affect armor suits effectively. There is also no weapon that does high damage against shields, I thought the forge gun did but its actually another 70/130 weapon.

Armor does have more hp, unless you bring in Cal Logi who are kind of screwy and deserve a different bonus. More hp per plate is deserved but let's not go crazy. Flux does not affect everyone equally, armor tankers must admit this. Plus these kill now (takes at least a 2nd grenade and the kill zone has a much smaller radius. )

I can agree with the number of explosive weapons and their huge dmg increase vs armor. Really should have been like 120% max. It's really only the MDs and Flaylocks that are the problem.

Plasma cannon greatly attacks shields, but it's a killer regardless. Forge gun I thought was a hybrid... doesn't matter though as it kills all in 1 hit. ScR and laser Rifles both do moderately better damage vs shields.

I have to say that all thought shields still seems superior to amor in most aspects- what Ive noticed is that CCP gave armor tankers more options- These options have allowed us to gain speed and regenerative properties- thus we have made that step towards balance because that what shield tankers ultimately have- lost of tank and very few penalties-

What i think now is that the amount of shields a person can stack without penalty is whats pressing- If i stack 600hp worth of armor - its all going to get taken away in a grenade blast but for shields 600 hp is a pretty substantial amount of chewing for most weapons to accomplish - but I have also notice that if armor tankers do not charge into battle and play their cards right they can excel further than most shield tankers

1- triage hives for all armor tankers

2- dropsuit kinetics

these are two important aspects of all shield tankers-

3- play the back field

Armor has more HP but that survivability from the HP is completely countered by speed decreases, and thus it devalues the HP. When we try to mitigate the speed penalty to reasonable levels we end up with lower HP, lower repair, and lower speed than a shield suit. Flux do affect everyone equally because a fluxed then flaylocked shield suit will die just as fluxed then flaylocked armor suit. Although it hurts armor suits a lot more since we cannot recover from fluxes as fast.

Explosive damage should be 90/110, or 100/120.

Forge gun should be flipped to 1 shot shield suits and 2 shot armor suits, even out the playing field once the armor killers show up, 5/8 of the new weapons to be released are going to be armor killers, and the 3 shield killers only one will be a heavy shield killing weapon, and the only heavy shield killing weapon.

So none of the new weapons are hybrid? That is stupid on CCPs part. What weapons attack what?

The flux argument is incorrect as 1 Flaylock shot will kill a shield tanker

Funny; if you take a look at this, You'll learn that more damage types types do more damage to armor (3:5), and there's 4 more weapons that do more damage to armor.......

Funny; if you take a look at this, You'll learn that more damage types types do more damage to armor (3:5), and there's 4 more weapons that do more damage to armor.......

By new weapons, do you mean the ones released on the 14th or the ones coming out soon(tm)?
If it's the former, the plasma cannon is hybrid (though that lolsplodes everything anyway if you actually hit with it).
If it's the latter, then the rail rifle is hybrid. The combat rifle is solid ammunition.
EDIT: Wait wtf, the rail rifle does more damage to armour?!

Also,

This is not correct.
1 flaylock shot does not kill a shield tanker unless they're terribly fit/militia and it's a core flaylock.
1 flaylock shot generally doesn't kill a proto armour tanker, but it's capable of killing advanced suits in 1 shot sometimes.

You miss the point where Blackstar makes the point that shield/armor are equally affected by the flux. That was what I was basing the Flaylock on...shield vs armor against a Flaylock after a flux is thrown.