If they have not responded to it, it is because they donGÇÖt want to corrupt a very good discussion with people who see blue and start pursuing their own private agendas.

Guys, I did not argue that rep tools or triage hives are the saving grace for armor tanking. There is no need to explain again why armor tanking is inferior to shield tanking, we have all come to that conclusion already.

What I'm saying is simply that armor tanking does have pros to it, and there's no shame in acknowledging them even in an 'armor is UP' thread. Fairness demands that the existence and situational effectiveness of rep tools and triage hives are mentioned when comparing armor to shields, otherwise the comparison risks to appear biased.

I think it's also fair to bring proto equipment into the equation when we are using HP values of complex mods in slot layouts of proto suits and dps values of proto ARs with AR proficiency at 5.

And what would you think if 2 heavies, each with 2000 HP and being repped for 100 HP/s are defending a choke point? You might think that's a little OP. I said keep it in mind when you propose changes like increasing armor HP by 100%.

Repping under fire is not about out healing the incoming dps, it's about letting you survive those few extra seconds longer that you need to take down the enemy before he takes down you. Then you reduce the incoming dps to 0 by going from partial to full cover, and heal up again before you engage the next enemy. Keep in mind the 600 dps of a proto AR are easily reduced to less than half of that when the enemy is engaging outside of optimal range and only 1 out of 2 bullets hit because you don't stand in the open like a moron.

There are also plenty of situations when not all people in a squad have line of sight to engage the enemy, or would block each other's shots in doing so. The repping logi is not a lost gun in that situation. And when you need every gun you can get, of course the logi player brings out his gun as well. You don't need a logi suit to use a repair tool, six assaults in a squad have 6 equipment slots at their disposal at any time.

You guys said it, it's all situational, and that's why nothing of this should simply be dismissed as a non-factor in this discussion. I think we can agree on that and I hope I made my point more clear now.

Cross Atu - Do you have Skype? I would very much like to invite you to a discussion group about balance. We're co-working on this thread and a few other similar length balance threads.
Your posts are consistently intelligent and I think we'd benefit from your opinion.

Time to Reveive...

well I guess at least gallente mediums look 10x cooler than amarr, minnmouse and caldari combined

So what's the verdict?

Ferro doesn't add competitive HP and cost more fitting-wise then plates?
Reactives cost a very high amount fitting and in trying to do two modules work do neither well enough?

So what's the verdict?

Ferro doesn't add competitive HP and cost more fitting-wise then plates?
Reactives cost a very high amount fitting and in trying to do two modules work do neither well enough?

Ferroscale and reactive plates are underpowered, and even if they were fine there would be obsolete modules and core issues.

it seems like those were desinged for shield tankers...lol

You know what.
That might just be the case.

Hey there!

Yeah, I completely understand where you're coming from, and I can tell you that we are looking into how to better balance the two without obviously homogenizing the different statuses. So while it might seem like we aren't doing anything, that is not the case! It is in the works and we are continually looking at this data and determining how tweak it.

I am going to be honest, I learnt a fair bit reading this post. I actually asked Arkena to make this post as he was explaining armor tanking to me in IRC.

I can't really comment on this very much though as it is not an area I work on. I can and will say however that those that do work on this stuff have read this thread. It actually made it into our weekly community report today that gets sent around to everyone working on DUST.

Thank you very much for this post. :D

We'll be addressing armor tanking with multiple updates going forward:
- New armor modules will be released with the Uprising 1.2 patch:
- Ferroscale plates (smaller HP buff but no speed penalty)
- Reactive plates (small HP buff and minor repair rate buff - plates that heal themselves! )
- We'll be reducing the movement speed penalty slightly on armor plates in a future hot-fix.
- Giving proper racial bonuses! The reason the Gallente don't get (the very obvious) bonus to movement speed when armor tanking at the moment is because we use a tag system to confer bonuses to items and currently there is no way to exclude an item from getting a bonus. The only way to do this would be to tag EVERYTHING in the game that isn't the Gallente suit with a tag, which is error-prone and likely to ensure we unintentionally screw up some unrelated skill at some point. This will be corrected as soon as is feasible.

Hey guys.

Yeah, obviously having this information released in a trailer isn't the best thing in the world. We are working on getting dev blogs out about all the new stuff we'll be releasing in our next patch, which is currently scheduled for early July (we'll have an exact release date ready for you in the near future).

But all numbers are still subject to change and we will of course monitor feedback on these numbers and make tweaks as appropriate.

I think we're being trolled.
The fact is, I want to play this game. I'm not going to threaten and cajole CCP but I would like a little bit of respect back. Not lies, not half truths. Clearly the fine thinkers of this thread deserve the transparency and frankly they should get it because they are more capable with these numbers then CCP seems to be.