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Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 0	Posted - 2013.06.26 08:23:00 - [151] - Quote kinda sucks being an amarr armor assault tank were already the slowest every day im regretting that i didn't choose gallente back in close beta
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon Plus 1300	Posted - 2013.06.26 09:11:00 - [152] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: kinda sucks being an amarr armor assault tank were already the slowest every day im regretting that i didn't choose gallente back in close beta I feel really quite sorry for Amarr suit users, but I see them shield tanking most of the time so I haven't really covered them.
D3LTA Blitzkrieg II 0uter.Heaven League of Infamy 11	Posted - 2013.06.26 14:45:00 - [153] - Quote CCP did a smart thing and with the new armor plates that are dropping july 2nd, the amarr n gallente suites will b much more competitive options
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon Plus 1302	Posted - 2013.06.26 15:59:00 - [154] - Quote D3LTA Blitzkrieg II wrote: CCP did a smart thing and with the new armor plates that are dropping july 2nd, the amarr n gallente suites will b much more competitive options Have you seen the stats? They're useless. And also, they don't fix the core issues.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1211	Posted - 2013.06.26 16:22:00 - [155] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: D3LTA Blitzkrieg II wrote: CCP did a smart thing and with the new armor plates that are dropping july 2nd, the amarr n gallente suites will b much more competitive options Have you seen the stats? They're useless. And also, they don't fix the core issues. ^This. Very much this.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 320	Posted - 2013.06.26 16:43:00 - [156] - Quote Don't forget about the Shield Energizer.. which will probably be another low module to help shield tankers even further. Smh
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1211	Posted - 2013.06.26 16:47:00 - [157] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: Don't forget about the Shield Energizer.. which will probably be another low module to help shield tankers even further. Smh I'm waiting for the stats on this mod, if CCP can find new mods which make shields even better then certainly with the support of all our feedback they can make armor attain some legitimate parity with shields (while not making them clones of each other). Hopefully they will take the opportunity of deploying patch 1.2 to do just that. /emote crosses fingers
XV1 Ninth Legion Freelance 22	Posted - 2013.06.26 17:16:00 - [158] - Quote I have for some time thought that armor was getting the short end of the stick, especially since the Caldari logistics was released. I believe the core idea for armor is good being that you trade some speed and HP regen for higher EHP. The penalties to armor seem a little harsh when compared to the lack of penalties that shields have. Shields take less damage from projectiles and have less of a penalty when hit with lasers when compared to the penalty armor gets when hit with explosives, both of these put shields in a place that allows their lower HP to become a higher EHP overall. This is most easily seen when you look at a HMG firing on a shield tanker. Not only does the shield tanker takes less bullets due to higher speed, but also covers the HP gap because he takes less damage from each bullet taken than the armor tanker does. Another thing to mention would be that the HP gap is insignificant when looking at the armor/shield counter weapons as explosives get a higher bonus VS armor than lasers get against shields making the HP difference when hit by your weakness. Another thing to look at is the fact that laser weapons are precision based making them take more skill to use and only affect one target per shot while explosives hit multiple targets and are generally easier to use. This puts shields at yet another advantage as they are harder to hit with precision with their higher speed and this means that it will take a skilled player to really use their weakness against them while armor suffers at the hands of every militia fit with locus grenades. Flux grenades I agree should do more than just fry the shields. The suggested extra recharge delay sounds good and the increased radius would be good too. I would like to see some kind of recharge penalty as well such as reducing the recharge rate of affected players' shields even when they do start recharging, or making there shields recharged for a short time more susceptible to damage of any kind for a short time. No matter what is done to flux grenades another thing to look at is the fact that they have no militia variant causing them to be more expensive and therefore considered for fits less often and take more SP investment. Another thing to mention is that flux grenades do next to nothing to armor tankers while locus grenades will get a portion of there damage on shield tankers meaning they are taken into battle more often purely because they can be at least somewhat effective on any target. Combining the SP investment with the fact that locus grenades can hurt any tank means that flux grenades are seldom seen in combat. I think that the ferroscale should at least match the shield extenders due to the fact that my armor does not naturally recharge while shields do. This automatically makes the shield extender a more effective module overall. I think the ferroscale should have a lower fitting requirement than armor plates so they can fill in gaps when you do not have the necessary PG/CPU for another heavy plate or when you are fitting an armor scout ( right lol ) I think reactive plates should either take way less PG/CPU and be cheaper than Rep/Plate fits or be much more effective than they are now. perhaps make them approximately half of a rep and half a plate with half the penalty. This would make them a viable alternative when working with limited slots. I like the idea of damage reduction modules in high slots and think they should definitely be implemented ASAP if they do not put reactive plates in high slots. I was thinking of something that significantly increases damage resistance when hit with massive damage or just after shields deplete. This would make locus grenades slightly less killer on armor tankers and make then safer bets VS snipers when they are trying to make it through an open space. I like this thread overall as the Op clearly put a great deal of time and thought into this.
XV1 Ninth Legion Freelance 22	Posted - 2013.06.26 17:40:00 - [159] - Quote Also I forgot to mention that I think the current scaling on plates is a little UP when compared to the shields. They should either cut the speed penalties in half or scale the hp much higher than it is currently. The armor rep rate seems a little low too, I liked the suggestion for 3/5/7 rather than the current 2/3/5. This would only really increase rep rate by 50% of its current power. Also to further balance shields/armor I would recommend remote shield reppers that function like the current remote repair tools. Also nanite injectors that restore a portion of the revived suits shields could make Logis able to support more than just armor. I think shields and armor should both be able to be team based tanks rather than forcing anyone that wants logistic support to be an armor tanker. Nanohives that repair shields would be cool too.
XV1 Ninth Legion Freelance 22	Posted - 2013.06.26 17:41:00 - [160] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: Don't forget about the Shield Energizer.. which will probably be another low module to help shield tankers even further. Smh Shield Energizer? What is this I see?

Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon Plus 1307	Posted - 2013.06.26 18:08:00 - [161] - Quote XV1 wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: Don't forget about the Shield Energizer.. which will probably be another low module to help shield tankers even further. Smh Shield Energizer? What is this I see? They're adding new stuff for shields. I doubt it'll actually be effective given the stated purpose, but if it is good then that'll throw the balance even further out of whack.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1211	Posted - 2013.06.26 18:28:00 - [162] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: XV1 wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: Don't forget about the Shield Energizer.. which will probably be another low module to help shield tankers even further. Smh Shield Energizer? What is this I see? They're adding new stuff for shields. I doubt it'll actually be effective given the stated purpose, but if it is good then that'll throw the balance even further out of whack. What's their stated purpose, I can't see any mention of that in the blog, do you have a link?
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon Plus 1308	Posted - 2013.06.26 19:02:00 - [163] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: XV1 wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: Don't forget about the Shield Energizer.. which will probably be another low module to help shield tankers even further. Smh Shield Energizer? What is this I see? They're adding new stuff for shields. I doubt it'll actually be effective given the stated purpose, but if it is good then that'll throw the balance even further out of whack. What's their stated purpose, I can't see any mention of that in the blog, do you have a link? At fanfest they said they'd reduce overall shield HP in favour of increasing regen. Somewhat like flux coils in EvE - which nobody uses, incidentally.
zzZaXxx The Exemplars 3	Posted - 2013.06.26 19:12:00 - [164] - Quote OP where do you get your numbers on the new mods?
Spycrab Potato Kinsho Swords Caldari State 37	Posted - 2013.06.26 20:04:00 - [165] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: OP where do you get your numbers on the new mods? They are taken directly from the Uprising 1.2 trailer that CCP leaked.
zzZaXxx The Exemplars 3	Posted - 2013.06.26 20:15:00 - [166] - Quote Spycrab Potato wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: OP where do you get your numbers on the new mods? They are taken directly from the Uprising 1.2 trailer that CCP leaked. link?
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon Plus 1319	Posted - 2013.06.26 20:17:00 - [167] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: Spycrab Potato wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: OP where do you get your numbers on the new mods? They are taken directly from the Uprising 1.2 trailer that CCP leaked. link? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_LlH2c5dyA 1:10 in.
zzZaXxx The Exemplars 3	Posted - 2013.06.26 20:37:00 - [168] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: Spycrab Potato wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: OP where do you get your numbers on the new mods? They are taken directly from the Uprising 1.2 trailer that CCP leaked. link? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_LlH2c5dyA 1:10 in. Hol crap! Reactive Plates are useless! 2 Complex Reactive Plates = 99 armor 4hp/sec rep 8% movement penalty 72 CPU / 32 PG 1 Enhanced Armor Plate + 1 Complex Armor Repairer = 95 armor 6.25hp/sec rep 5% movement penalty 65 CPU / 17 PG WTF!!! They are total crap!!!My goodness I hope the numbers in the video change! I'm no math genius but reactive plates are trash with these numbers!
Sigbjorn Foerik Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 23	Posted - 2013.06.26 20:41:00 - [169] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: Spycrab Potato wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: OP where do you get your numbers on the new mods? They are taken directly from the Uprising 1.2 trailer that CCP leaked. link? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_LlH2c5dyA 1:10 in. Hol crap! Reactive Plates are useless! 2 Complex Reactive Plates = 99 armor 4hp/sec rep 8% movement penalty 72 CPU / 32 PG 1 Enhanced Armor Plate + 1 Complex Armor Repairer = 95 armor 6.25hp/sec rep 5% movement penalty 65 CPU / 17 PG WTF!!! They are total crap!!!My goodness I hope the numbers in the video change! I'm no math genius but reactive plates are trash with these numbers! You say this because you have many slots free. A scout will welcome them. Just one slot for repairer and plates and only 4% penaly.
zzZaXxx The Exemplars 3	Posted - 2013.06.26 20:42:00 - [170] - Quote The Ferroscale Plates are basically equivalent to shield extenders....except they don't benefit from passive recharge of course so they have to make room for reppers so only hald as effective as shield extenders. CCP am I missing something or are you?

Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1213	Posted - 2013.06.26 20:44:00 - [171] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: XV1 wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: Don't forget about the Shield Energizer.. which will probably be another low module to help shield tankers even further. Smh Shield Energizer? What is this I see? They're adding new stuff for shields. I doubt it'll actually be effective given the stated purpose, but if it is good then that'll throw the balance even further out of whack. What's their stated purpose, I can't see any mention of that in the blog, do you have a link? At fanfest they said they'd reduce overall shield HP in favour of increasing regen. Somewhat like flux coils in EvE - which nobody uses, incidentally. Interesting to know, also yeah I've never seen an EVE ship with a flux coil fit (not that my even knowledge is exhaustive). Thanks for the info Cheers, Cross
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1213	Posted - 2013.06.26 20:46:00 - [172] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: The Ferroscale Plates are basically equivalent to shield extenders....except they don't benefit from passive recharge of course so they have to make room for reppers so only hald as effective as shield extenders. CCP am I missing something or are you? They also have lower HP totals than the extenders
zzZaXxx The Exemplars 3	Posted - 2013.06.26 20:46:00 - [173] - Quote I question whether a scout will welcome a 4% movement penalty for 45 armor and 2hp rep. Anyways if only scouts are using them they're still garbage.
zzZaXxx The Exemplars 3	Posted - 2013.06.26 20:47:00 - [174] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: The Ferroscale Plates are basically equivalent to shield extenders....except they don't benefit from passive recharge of course so they have to make room for reppers so only hald as effective as shield extenders. CCP am I missing something or are you? They also have lower HP totals than the extenders Not the enhanced.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon Plus 1319	Posted - 2013.06.26 20:48:00 - [175] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: The Ferroscale Plates are basically equivalent to shield extenders....except they don't benefit from passive recharge of course so they have to make room for reppers so only hald as effective as shield extenders. CCP am I missing something or are you? Quite. This is only one part of the problem, though. It'd be nice to see CCP realise that the solution is not just chucking on new (and bad) modules.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon Plus 1319	Posted - 2013.06.26 20:49:00 - [176] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: Cross Atu wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: The Ferroscale Plates are basically equivalent to shield extenders....except they don't benefit from passive recharge of course so they have to make room for reppers so only hald as effective as shield extenders. CCP am I missing something or are you? They also have lower HP totals than the extenders Not the enhanced. This is a moot point, as the difference in HP is less than a single bullet, and also people rarely use enhanced shield extenders.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1214	Posted - 2013.06.26 20:51:00 - [177] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: Cross Atu wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: The Ferroscale Plates are basically equivalent to shield extenders....except they don't benefit from passive recharge of course so they have to make room for reppers so only hald as effective as shield extenders. CCP am I missing something or are you? They also have lower HP totals than the extenders Not the enhanced. True but the Proto are only 60 as opposed to 66 making top value of the plates lower than shields even prior to including skills or regen
zzZaXxx The Exemplars 3	Posted - 2013.06.26 20:54:00 - [178] - Quote Quote: They're adding new stuff for shields. I doubt it'll actually be effective given the stated purpose, but if it is good then that'll throw the balance even further out of whack What's their stated purpose, I can't see any mention of that in the blog, do you have a link? At fanfest they said they'd reduce overall shield HP in favour of increasing regen. Somewhat like flux coils in EvE - which nobody uses, incidentally. Interesting to know, also yeah I've never seen an EVE ship with a flux coil fit (not that my even knowledge is exhaustive). Thanks for the info Cheers, Cross[/quote] Shield Energizers would be useful for Caldari Proto Logi since they can have 660hp shield tanks with only 20hp/sec recharge, which would take forever. This mod could bring buffer and recharge more into balance, assuming there's a reason to use it instead of the current Shield Recharger mods. The reason is probably either lower fitting costs or better recharge bonus.
zzZaXxx The Exemplars 3	Posted - 2013.06.26 20:57:00 - [179] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: Cross Atu wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: The Ferroscale Plates are basically equivalent to shield extenders....except they don't benefit from passive recharge of course so they have to make room for reppers so only hald as effective as shield extenders. CCP am I missing something or are you? They also have lower HP totals than the extenders Not the enhanced. True but the Proto are only 60 as opposed to 66 making top value of the plates lower than shields even prior to including skills or regen Yeah and their fitting reqs are basically even, with less CPU/more PG for the plates. All these plates need more HP across the board.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon Plus 1319	Posted - 2013.06.26 21:01:00 - [180] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: Quote: They're adding new stuff for shields. I doubt it'll actually be effective given the stated purpose, but if it is good then that'll throw the balance even further out of whack What's their stated purpose, I can't see any mention of that in the blog, do you have a link? At fanfest they said they'd reduce overall shield HP in favour of increasing regen. Somewhat like flux coils in EvE - which nobody uses, incidentally. Interesting to know, also yeah I've never seen an EVE ship with a flux coil fit (not that my even knowledge is exhaustive). Thanks for the info Cheers, Cross Shield Energizers would be useful for Caldari Proto Logi since they can have 660hp shield tanks with only 20hp/sec recharge, which would take forever. This mod could bring buffer and recharge more into balance, assuming there's a reason to use it instead of the current Shield Recharger mods. The reason is probably either lower fitting costs or better recharge bonus. Yes, they'd be useful for the currently superior tank. However, then you look at the other end, armour, where you have people with 450 HP and 12/13 HP/s. -only- 20 HP/s regen is nearly twice as much as a pair of complex repairers can regen. Buffing that significantly would make armour repairers completely laughable in comparison to shield regen.



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