I see what you're saying now. They're going to have to tweak that, since the only time I imagine someone sending so many clones that more than 150 will reach the district is when they're confident they'll take it. It's interesting, though, if they send 200 (none lost on transport), and lose 100 in the battle and lose the battle itself, does the 20% get taken away from the remaining 100 or only 50 because they have to lose 150 minimum?

Regardless, it's possible after you take a hostile district, it becomes Unlocked, meaning you could just reinforce it if needed, giving even less reason to send more than 150.

Ah, I missed the very first line of Skihids post, which says the defender wins every battle. The more interesting question is why the defender loses the district every time even with the same skill level and number of victories (with in many cases relative-little clone loss by the attackers), which is what my long post in the previous page is about.

Your point is good and obviously we are talking about the big corps being very determined in it's task but 150 clones a day is the product of two districts or less which doesn't seem to me to be a big drain if you have many districts and the little guy has no ally's to lock reinforcing district.

This also brings me back to my previous point that small corps could be bought out of a no win situation for them and abandon to order at a preset time allowing big corps in hassle free for a price plus whatever the small corps gets for its clone sale

While it's true that 150 clones a day can be produced by a single district, that's NOT how it works out when you're calculating an attack on an enemy district.

EDIT: Also, if you get your corp paid off, what's to stop you from using that huge wad of cash to launch a war of attrition against the district you just sold and reclaim it? Because if you could negotiate the kind of payout that would support it, why not?

I wouldn't ever take or offer a payout when one of the big corps is involved - because you can't guarantee either will happen, you're trusting that either the money will be paid when you hand over the district, or that the district will be handed over when you pay the money. There aren't any corps I'd trust that would hold me to ransom and then give me a good deal.

I wouldn't ever take or offer a payout when one of the big corps is involved - because you can't guarantee either will happen, you're trusting that either the money will be paid when you hand over the district, or that the district will be handed over when you pay the money. There aren't any corps I'd trust that would hold me to ransom and then give me a good deal.

That's a VERY good question. But if you're wanting to grind down a defender's forces heavily, a 200 or even 250 clone attack would be a practical option if you can be sure of losing enough clones - and killing enough - to balance out the numbers in your favour. Unless you get totally dominated, the worst-case scenario is that the defenders see through the plan, retreat, and let you lock the district down with 150 clones killed.

And this MIGHT be countered by someone following your victory up with an immediate attack if they're watching for the battle results and set the attack before your corp can send those reinforcements.

Ah, I missed the very first line of Skihids post, which says the defender wins every battle. The more interesting question is why the defender loses the district every time even with the same skill level and number of victories (with in many cases relative-little clone loss by the attackers), which is what my long post in the previous page is about.

The biggest takeaway from the above examples is that when a district looks at the reinforcement timer to determine when the battle will happen or when to unlock it always happens on or in the reinforcement window after a minimum of 24 hours.

Or, what about offering a deal for defenders through the reward system ? When winning, defender could choose to process used biomass into new clones instead of getting full ISK reward ?

Just to keep the discussion going.

Instead of biomassed clones being 50,000 ISK each, you get a choice. Either you can sell them, or you can rebuild clones from them. Because of all the processes involved in recovering viable parts and actually reclaiming them, it should be at a MASSIVE loss in numbers - even worse than the 20% you get back from capturing clones that survive a battle. I'm leaning towards maybe a 5 or 10% reclamation rate, and because you've taken the most intact - and therefore valuable - parts from the biomass, the remainder is only going to have enough resale value to cover the cost of producing those extra clones.

NO BATTLE happens as it's not been a full 24h since the first fight Don't know if you guys took that into account but it's important. Or at least that's the way i understood that part of the wiki

I think that if the attacking corp attacks again the attack occur the next day (23 hours later), and not 47 hours later. That's how I understand some of the answers from FoxFour in this thread.

Let's say both district engage in the fight have a RT set between 12h00-13h00pm.And both have a cargo hub. Same planet. No attacks on district A.

District A (attackers) 450 clones
District B (defenders) 450 clones.
Regen rate 75 clones per RT.

Day 1
District A attacks District B at 9h00 am with 150 clones.
Come RT. No fight. Excess clone is sold for district B
District A is at 375 clones.

Day 2 12h00.
RT starts, both district generate clones
District A is at 450 clones
District B sells the excess of clones.
Fight happens. Attackers win through MCC destruction. Defenders lose 150 clones. Attackers lose 140 clones. 10 clones sold.

District A sets another attack with 150 clones at 12h45 once battle is over.

District A : 300 clones
District B : 300 Clones

Day 3 12h00

District B doesnt generate clones.
District A does.

District A : 375 clones
District B : 300 Clones

NO BATTLE happens as it's not been a full 24h since the first fight Don't know if you guys took that into account but it's important. Or at least that's the way i understood that part of the wiki

It would be nice to know if what matters is the overall RT or the beginning of the RT regarding that rule. If it has been answered before then my bad but i dont think so. Let's move on.

You've already lost me. District A would have to wait, in the case of this example, 27 hours after Setting an Attack against B to actually Launch it. If the RT is at 1200-1300, then no fight can happen at any other time. Also, how is District A at 375 clones without fighting? Unless you mean that 150 is somewhere in limbo between Districts A and B and A doesn't need to account for them when accumulating clones, which I'm almost positive is incorrect. The clones themselves don't move out of the district until the actual fight, and therefore you can't send 150 off right before your RT and get 75 back while keeping the 150 in limbo.

Nope, it has been said clone movement is done instantly. So when setting the attack, your 150 clones would 'leave" your district and idle in the targetted one. Unless it works differently for fights.

The whole point of this post was to raise questions.

Nope, it has been said clone movement is done instantly. So when setting the attack, your 150 clones would 'leave" your district and idle in the targetted one. Unless it works differently for fights.

The whole point of this post was to raise questions.

This particular question - do the clones travel immediately on declaring the attack, or immediately on INITIATING it? - is an important one that I'm now surprised we didn't think to ask earlier.

As for the scenario you're presenting though, the OPTION to attack is created just BEFORE the attacker goes into battle. They have one hour to accept that option, and if they take it, the attack is initiated based on the time the option was created - NOT the time it was accepted. This allows you to effectively declare an attack an hour later than you should be allowed to under normal circumstances.

ok so the "dibs hour" gives you the possibility to not wait 24h+ before rematch. Makes sense and thanks for clearing the air.

Let's hope Foxfour or Null can give us an answer regarding clone movement timing when setting an attack.

given that the act of moving your clones into a district is what either claims a district or sets up an attack, I think we can safely say that the movement of clones is instant

TECHNICALLY, it "backdates" the attack order to a moment before the RT.

11:59:59
Attack option created for the target district of the attack that's about to happen. THIS is when an attack using the option is actually created, not the time that the option is claimed.

12:00:00
Attack begins.

12:00:01 - 12:59:59
At any point during this window, the attacker can claim their option to attack, and it activates as of the option's creation - thus allowing the attack to effectively have already been initiated before being confirmed.

Another thing I'm curious about is whether or not this attack can be initiated before the battle ends. We already know it's possible - if unlikely - to draw a battle out for more than an hour. If it looks like that hour is about to run out, can you initiate the attack for the following day in spite of the battle still continuing?

And more importantly, if you can, and you do, and after setting the follow-up attack, what happens if you win the battle and claim the district? does the attack turn into a normal clone move? Is it cancelled? Do you get to launch an attack on your own territory?

I think of attacking an occupied district more as setting down a flag and saying "okay we're going to hit these guys, so you can't". It sounds a little strange, but it makes a lot more sense then "okay we've moved these 150 clones to this district and we're going to wait 24-47 hours for the defenders to get ready before we attack".

Also, it makes more sense that moving them to one of your own districts or to an unoccupied district wouldn't take any time because there's no one to stop you from just walking in. With an enemy district, there is.

I seem to remember a dev post earlier here (i am not searching 50 odd pages for it! lol) that stated that the "dibs" hour happens for an hour after the battle has finished.

TECHNICALLY, it "backdates" the attack order to a moment before the RT.

11:59:59
Attack option created for the target district of the attack that's about to happen. THIS is when an attack using the option is actually created, not the time that the option is claimed.

12:00:00
Attack begins.

12:00:01 - 12:59:59
At any point during this window, the attacker can claim their option to attack, and it activates as of the option's creation - thus allowing the attack to effectively have already been initiated before being confirmed.

Another thing I'm curious about is whether or not this attack can be initiated before the battle ends. We already know it's possible - if unlikely - to draw a battle out for more than an hour. If it looks like that hour is about to run out, can you initiate the attack for the following day in spite of the battle still continuing?

And more importantly, if you can, and you do, and after setting the follow-up attack, what happens if you win the battle and claim the district? does the attack turn into a normal clone move? Is it cancelled? Do you get to launch an attack on your own territory?

I think of attacking an occupied district more as setting down a flag and saying "okay we're going to hit these guys, so you can't". It sounds a little strange, but it makes a lot more sense then "okay we've moved these 150 clones to this district and we're going to wait 24-47 hours for the defenders to get ready before we attack".

Also, it makes more sense that moving them to one of your own districts or to an unoccupied district wouldn't take any time because there's no one to stop you from just walking in. With an enemy district, there is.

I think you have to suspend lore a little bit here regarding the 24 hour delay, your district is invaded by the arrival of enemy forces, but the delay is forced on us because of real world considerations to allow players from all over the world to play this game without descending into timezone chaos. Clearly, within new eden a defence would be immediately mounted

The thing is, both gameplay and lore work better with the way I think it works. You wouldn't have attackers stacking 150-200 past the clone limit, and you wouldn't have fictional mercs in the EVE/Dust universe sitting around playing cards while there were enemies on the other side of the door.

Yeah well. Regarding lore and such. If you receive an attack notice and clones move at the last moment, why would your district be locked in a way that even stops you from getting reinforcements from another district for the next 24 hours ?

Just sayin, lore is to be forgottent atm.

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