I had just added a duplicate of the main forum poll on dust514.org I have started a new one with these exact headings to see if we can catch some more votes.

Voting is on the homepage, results can be seen here:

http://www.dust514.org/component/poll/16-skill-point-cap

Sorry I dont get the difference between "increased soft cap" and "no limit to the soft cap"...if the soft cap will be increased to 1000sp, then I assume the "no limit" would be more than 1000sp??....if so that's the deal

FYI, there doesn't seem to be a way to vote. It is just showing results as 0/0/0/0/0

Should the vote options include "no cap at all" so we can figure out how popular that option really is?

4-5 for me. 1k soft cap just means you get it no matter how well you do good or bad, at least with the WP option it fluctuates more and is based on how well you actually do.

No cap at all is out of the bargain. Looking at the latest post about it is proof enough.
No matter how hard a few people wants to believe it's a popular request

Weekly skill cap with increased soft cap is the best option....thx for listening. If the softcap is 1 wp = 1sp then it wouldn't matter if there is a cap on the softcap or not. Because 1000 sps will suffice if you guys are adamant on keeping the skill progression, relatively uniform.

I would vote for no cap on the softcap because it isn't every game where you hit 2500 sps in one match. But again, it wouldn't matter. Or, do a 1wp = .5 sp with no cap on the softcap, that may be better. That way, every wp will still count. Because I can see guys stop going hard once they've hit 1K wps in one match

voted ;) !!!

One more thing : no soft cap 1000sp per game --> MCC farming ahead !!!

The soft cap 1WP=1SP feels really good to me ;) !!!

Hit the 1k wp in match and go hide, no risking of losing suits etc as you've already hit the max, besides the cap punishes the good casuals because they won't be able to get the extra sp to help keep up.

No cap means no lifers get much further ahead of casuals, so I see no reason that no cap would be better for them than a soft cap.

Basically:

high soft cap = bad for casuals and no lifers for opposite reasons, but reasonably balanced for both.
no cap = good for no lifers, terrible for casuals.

No lifers would grind 3x as much SP as the average casual could get with the high soft cap. Closer to 6x as much with the uncapped method. How is that an advantage for casuals?

It will never be an advantage for casuals, with active SP it will always be like that. However with the WP option the casuals actually have chance to earn more the times they do actually get to play. If you play on weekends and play 20 matches and get 1.5k wp per match you only earn 20k but with the wp option you earn 30k.

Sure, some sit to the side and fuk around in the MCC instead of helping, but I've rarely seen it happen at all. I've never seen more than one person at it at a time. You may have, other people may have, but I haven't, so it can't be so bad that it's effecting everyone when I can play 8 hours a day and not see more than 3 people doing it a day.

We would like to remind you that these changes do not represent the final skill point system and that we are still working hard on getting to the fully polished rollover system later on.

they are called snipers

5) Weekly cap with no limit on the soft cap

We are also considering another alternative, which is to *not* have a cap (of 1k) on the soft cap, so, after weekly cap is hit, you still get 1 SP per WP at end of match. We would like to hear which of these you like better as well (cap on the soft cap vs no cap on soft cap).

No lifers would grind 3x as much SP as the average casual could get with the high soft cap. Closer to 6x as much with the uncapped method. How is that an advantage for casuals?

Edit---- I only support #2 under the assumption it is a HARD CAP with NO DIMINISHING RETURNS.

Edit #2- In order to discourage camping and reward winning perhaps consider a loss/win multiplier.

Loss Multipler 50-75% of total SP posssible for loss(punishes losing)

Win Multiplier +25% of total SP possible for win(encourages win)

So it should be like this.

personally, I see no issue with #2 or #5, but I support #5.

I cannot see why people would have an issue with #5. A person is still being fairly rewarded for their participation in a match. If they earn 2k WP's, they get 2k SP to match - more power to them. Most will not even earn the 1k SP cap in #2, so why is #5 bad?



Before you say grinders, what is to stop the grinder from grinding 1k SP every match and getting ahead that way, vs not having the soft cap and grinding the same way. Even a casual player could grind all day if they wanted. I honestly do not see what the big deal would be. What is the difference in you as a casual earning, on average, 600 SP per match vs a grinder earning 600 SP per match??? And if you think these "grinders" always earn 1k+ per match, you my friend are delusional.

Even if it is capped at 1k, if you only earn 600 WP on average (which = 600 SP after cap), they are going to get ahead anyways. I use a booster, so if you have not been using one, I have 2x the SP you do already.

And honestly, as a Logi, it's already hard enough for me to get WP's considering the caps in place, so if I can manage 1500 WP's in a game, I would like to be rewarded for it as that means I put in A LOT of effort to get there. And if a single person is getting 3-4k WP's in a match...... shame on the other team. I don't recall ever seeing someone with that many WP's (aside from the previous farming issue); even in a redline situation. And don't say "they were in a tank / Dropship and..." Get your squad / team together and load some AV fits.

And tbh, once you reach ~3 mil SP, you should be specialized enough where you would be on an even playing field; even with the grindiest of grinders. The only difference would be options available. They may be able to use a tank and a heavy, maybe you can only use a heavy... again, they just have more options. You cannot go beyond LVL 5 on a skill.

I believe the point there was that the average casual gamer WON'T grind for SP that much. That's sort of what defines a casual gamer, not playing the game nonstop. Sure, a casual may have time to grind for SP once in a while, but the gap between casuals and "grinders" grows wider much more quickly with option 5 than with option 2.

Look at it like this. Hypothetically say that a casual gamer were to play 3 games a day after hitting the cap, whereas a grinder plays 7:

C=casual, G=Grinder, SC=Soft Cap

SCbattle 1:

C wp = 2000
G wp = 1600

SCbattle 2:

C wp = 1200
G wp = 1000

SCbattle 3:

C wp = 1800
G wp = 1400

SCbattle 4:

G wp = 1300

SCbattle 5:

G wp = 1600

SCbattle 6:

G wp = 1300

SCbattle 7:

G wp = 1900

total wp for the casual player = 3000
total wp for the grinder = 7000
SP gap = 4000

in this we see that the grinder is rewarded for his efforts, still gaining a further SP advantage over the casual player.

If there were no cap, it would be:

Casual Player = 5300
Grinder = 10400
SP gap = 5100

in this we hypothetical see that the gap between where the casual gamer is and where the grinder is widens quickly in only a few games difference. And this is in NO way indicitive of how many more matches grinders play than casuals, grinders play FAR more games than this hypothetical would suggest.

In short, if there is no soft cap the grinders are going to be even more ahead of the casuals than they would be with a soft cap of 1000. Having a soft cap of 1000 is the safest middle ground to settle on since it serves both sides both a service and a disservice.

Yep this is why causuals can PAY TO WIN, erm I mean gain SP Bonuses :)

Read this

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=486685#post486685

Vote #5, if you vote #2 it would just promote SP idling, 1000SP per game means people will most likely idle for SP. If we bring in the unlimited soft cap it means idlers wont get anything because they'd have 0 WP.

Dear players,

Continuing our philosophy of developing...

The increased soft cap would entail rewarding one skill point for each warpoint after the normal daily or weekly cap has been hit, up to the increased soft cap (currently 50 SP, we will raise it to 1000 SP per match). This is to provide an incentive towards playing well even after the cap has been reached and make the play experience after hitting the cap better. We are also considering another alternative, which is to *not* have a cap (of 1k) on the soft cap, so, after weekly cap is hit, you still get 1 SP per WP at end of match. We would like to hear which of these you like better as well (cap on the soft cap vs no cap on soft cap).

In order to vote, ...

Thank you for all your feedback so far, and we are looking forward to your votes.

We are also considering another alternative, which is to *not* have a cap (of 1k) on the soft cap, so, after weekly cap is hit, you still get 1 SP per WP at end of match. We would like to hear which of these you like better as well (cap on the soft cap vs no cap on soft cap).

Or EVEN sp=wp to 500 , then sp=wp / 2 for 500-1000, then sp=wp/4 for over 1000

Still gives increasing remuneration for excellent performance, but hopefully avoids excessive gain.

Option #2

2) Weekly cap with an increased soft cap

Please for the love of all that's holy do this ASAP before i loose my mind and burn out again.

I hate the idea of a soft cap. I like thee hard cap better, I don't like slowly earning less and less.
Just increase the daily cap.

Dear players,

Continuing our philosophy of developing our games in collaboration with the player base, we would like to engage with you on the topic of skill points, based on the lively discussion here on the forums and your detailed feedback on what changes you would like to see applied to our current skill point reward system. Your comments and concerns are important to us and we are taking steps to address them as soon as we can.

We are well aware of the fact that the daily/weekly skill point rollover system is the favorite amongst the community, and we are implementing such a system aimed at the next major release. However, the change to add a roll over system is not immediately possible. The five options that we can apply in the immediate short term are the following:

1)Daily cap with an increased soft cap
2)Weekly cap with an increased soft cap
3)No changes to the current system (daily cap + low soft cap)
4) Daily cap with no limit on the soft cap
5) Weekly cap with no limit on the soft cap

Internally we are leaning towards a weekly cap, as it offers the closest alternative to a roll over system. As with a roll over system, a weekly cap allows players to better choose when to play within each week without having to jump in every day to secure all possible skill points.

The increased soft cap would entail rewarding one skill point for each warpoint after the normal daily or weekly cap has been hit, up to the increased soft cap (currently 50 SP, we will raise it to 1000 SP per match). This is to provide an incentive towards playing well even after the cap has been reached and make the play experience after hitting the cap better. We are also considering another alternative, which is to *not* have a cap (of 1k) on the soft cap, so, after weekly cap is hit, you still get 1 SP per WP at end of match. We would like to hear which of these you like better as well (cap on the soft cap vs no cap on soft cap).

In order to vote, please click GÇ£LikeGÇ¥ button in the following GÇ£5GÇ¥ replies in this thread and tell us what you would like to see implemented to the game immediately.

We would like to remind you that these changes do not represent the final skill point system and that we are still working hard on getting to the fully polished rollover system later on.

Thank you for all your feedback so far, and we are looking forward to your votes.

Option #5

5) Weekly cap with no limit on the soft cap

Option #2

2) Weekly cap with an increased soft cap

also, It would take a pretty pathetic person to stop playing after they hit the soft cap in a match. IMO thats a pretty weak argument.

Option #5

5) Weekly cap with no limit on the soft cap

So, I've hit like on #5

But, I think the reward of 1sp per wp is too much.

Perhaps sp=wp / 2 or even 4.

Or EVEN sp=wp to 500 , then sp=wp / 2 for 500-1000, then sp=wp/4 for over 1000

Still gives increasing remuneration for excellent performance, but hopefully avoids excessive gain.

#2 because I believe in pacing players. also, I feel the soft cap should be 500 (750 with AB) instead of 1000 (1500 with AB).

however, people should keep in mind that usually, in most skirmish games, only the top 4 or so players on either team get over 1000 wp. also, It would take a pretty pathetic person to stop playing after they hit the soft cap in a match. IMO thats a pretty weak argument.

No no the soft cap means you only sp equal to your war points. Also the afk sp thing needs to go anyways.

What I'd rather see would be , 10 sp per warpoint. Then once you hit the cap it goes down to 1 sp per warpoint with cap at 1000 per battle. Weekly cap.

I still fail to see the need of the 1000 sp cap per battle.

All the rest of it is grand but why have the second cap? It's not needed as on average people only get about 1500 WP per battle if you are any good.

It's the second cap is what is pissing off people who want to continue playing after you hit the initial cap and there really is no need for it. So what if you have a handful of people who grind all day, this will not effect the game at large because the majority of people will be getting less than or around 1000 WP per battle anyway. Therefore, you will not have half of the player base storming ahead of the other half or new players serverely lagging behind which is the general concern.

The hardcore players have accepted your initial cap, but why punish us further with a second soft cap?

Lets face it, if you are on average getting <1000 WP per match and you get up against someone who regularly gets more than 2000 WP per match you are likely to lose anyway. Why? Because this player is better than you. Deal with it. No amount of skill capping is going to change the fact that there are players out there who are better than you.

Games are meant to have balance but they are not meant to punish you for being good at them. That is exactly what this second soft cap does.

Keep your first cap, I don't care whether its daily or weekly, but remove the second cap and simply make it 1WP = 1SP so the hardcore players can enjoy the game as well.

Well to be honest. I believe there shouldn't be a skill cap. I mean lets be honest. Someone willing to spend all that time playing deserves to be well equipped, and their play time should show it. Someone who doesn't fight much isn't going to run the best gear.
Now to cast my actual vote for now. I want option number 5. A weekly cap with no limit on the soft cap. That way if you miss a day or two, you aren't losing any skill points if you can make it up. When you hit the skill cap, it still encourages you to do better because you will get more skill points.

I'm with you 100%, but I'd rather have ANYTHING other than what we have now as soon as possible, and the votes were counted

Why number 2... when 5 is just a better version of it? It rewards those who play well and as a team. Not the ones who grind until the weekly cap then just stop.

Option #2

2) Weekly cap with an increased soft cap

Well to be honest. I believe there shouldn't be a skill cap. I mean lets be honest. Someone willing to spend all that time playing deserves to be well equipped, and their play time should show it. Someone who doesn't fight much isn't going to run the best gear.
Now to cast my actual vote for now. I want option number 5. A weekly cap with no limit on the soft cap. That way if you miss a day or two, you aren't losing any skill points if you can make it up. When you hit the skill cap, it still encourages you to do better because you will get more skill points.

Option #5

5) Weekly cap with no limit on the soft cap

Hit the 1k wp in match and go hide, no risking of losing suits etc as you've already hit the max, besides the cap punishes the good casuals because they won't be able to get the extra sp to help keep up.

I only get 2 days a week to really sit down and play video games, and I like to put the majority of my day into playing dust on those days. The weekly cap with out a limit I think suits my play style best. I dont like having to try and log in or missing skill points because I dont have the time to play. I would rather get all my points over the course of two days and not have to worry about the cap deterring the fun I am having playing the game.

Option #5

5) Weekly cap with no limit on the soft cap

Realistically speaking this option makes the most sense, and pleases all parties. The weekly cap keeps everybody somewhat on a level playing field. This is great for people who can't play everyday, and it alleviates DUST being a full time job. I believe once you hit your weekly cap 1 WP = 1 SP. This would allow your performance to be directly tied to how many skill points you get from the battle.

After hitting the weekly cap 1 WP= 1 SP, Allows for the hardcore players to feel as if they aren't being punished for playing a game that they enjoy. This also allows for newer players to somewhat catch up to everybody else if they not only put the time into the game, but also are somewhat decent at it.

however though when behind a redline you shouldn't get any WP's for any actions you perform, because hiding behind the redline destroys the pacing of the game, and generally speaking is a sissy thing to do.

I agree but remember CCP caters more to the players who don't do well in games. If you have a good game and get say 2k WP you should get 2k SP. Besides active boosters would be worth the purchase. It's dumb not to reward players for doing well, all because people are too busy being concerned about what others are doing. Oh and one more thing it was dumb to add in number 5 without it even being tested. People will naturally vote against it, you should of stuck to your guns and tried it out, even if it was only for a week or 2 and then done the vote.

So when does this vote close and the changes actually get implemented?