DUST Search - New Skill Point Cap Proposal

Yay Adski wrote:

trollface dot jpg wrote:

Yay Adski wrote:

Ydubbs81 RND wrote:

Weekly skill cap with increased soft cap is the best option....thx for listening. If the softcap is 1 wp = 1sp then it wouldn't matter if there is a cap on the softcap or not. Because 1000 sps will suffice if you guys are adamant on keeping the skill progression, relatively uniform.

I would vote for no cap on the softcap because it isn't every game where you hit 2500 sps in one match. But again, it wouldn't matter. Or, do a 1wp = .5 sp with no cap on the softcap, that may be better. That way, every wp will still count. Because I can see guys stop going hard once they've hit 1K wps in one match

Hit the 1k wp in match and go hide, no risking of losing suits etc as you've already hit the max, besides the cap punishes the good casuals because they won't be able to get the extra sp to help keep up.

No cap means no lifers get much further ahead of casuals, so I see no reason that no cap would be better for them than a soft cap.

Basically:

high soft cap = bad for casuals and no lifers for opposite reasons, but reasonably balanced for both.
no cap = good for no lifers, terrible for casuals.

No lifers would grind 3x as much SP as the average casual could get with the high soft cap. Closer to 6x as much with the uncapped method. How is that an advantage for casuals?

It will never be an advantage for casuals, with active SP it will always be like that. However with the WP option the casuals actually have chance to earn more the times they do actually get to play. If you play on weekends and play 20 matches and get 1.5k wp per match you only earn 20k but with the wp option you earn 30k.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
Needless Sacermendor Red Fox Brigade 208	Posted - 2013.01.23 12:35:00 - [31] - Quote Yay Adski wrote: 4-5 for me. 1k soft cap just means you get it no matter how well you do good or bad, at least with the WP option it fluctuates more and is based on how well you actually do. No ... the 1k soft cap means you get 1sp per 1wp up to a soft cap of 1,000sp ... so if you get 200wp = 200sp ... 1,200wp = 1,000sp The un-capped soft cap means that 1,200wp would give you 1,200sp and 2,000wp would get 2,000sp I think the uncapped version gives people more incentive to play and play properly after the cap, rather than just doing enough to get 1,000wp then sit round a campfire for the rest of the match. Edited ... yeah also, good job CCP, I'd almost lost faith when this daily cap was introduced, thanks for getting it worked out to the communities majority decision.
The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1060	Posted - 2013.01.23 12:36:00 - [32] - Quote option #2 seems quite fair. It will reward the no lifer 24/7 chinese power gamers and the normal players have time to keep up during the week at a considerable lvl.
Yay Adski Imperfects Negative-Feedback 133	Posted - 2013.01.23 12:36:00 - [33] - Quote Soft cap punishes those who do well. If you only play on weekends etc and get over 1k wp per match wouldn't you want the extra sp?
Tac Com Sand Mercenary Corps Inc. 41	Posted - 2013.01.23 12:39:00 - [34] - Quote I don't mind the higher SP soft cap or maybe even perhaps no soft cap if matchmaking was much better. I think right now it's due to the player base but once the matchmaking system cleans itself up then those who are taking off will be seperated from those who have lives to live. Although I think the increased soft cap is the best option, even if it was lowered to maybe 500-750 or kept at 1000. This would help to keep everyone close to each other but still incentivise those who wish to play more. I don't envy you CCP for having to try and strike this balance. It's going to be a tricky road for quite some time. Vote: Option #2
Ghural The Southern Legion 63	Posted - 2013.01.23 12:40:00 - [35] - Quote Is there going to be a change to the way skill points are earned? In particular to prevent AFK skill point farming
R F Gyro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 315	Posted - 2013.01.23 12:41:00 - [36] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: R F Gyro wrote: Should the vote options include "no cap at all" so we can figure out how popular that option really is? No cap at all is out of the bargain. Looking at the latest post about it is proof enough. No matter how hard a few people wants to believe it's a popular request I don't want that to be implemented, I want to know how many people want it implemented. I actually want to demonstrate that the people advocating it are just a (very) vocal minority.
Greasepalms Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 70	Posted - 2013.01.23 12:52:00 - [37] - Quote #2. I like the idea of having a weekly cap instead of daily; as for he soft-cap, 1 SP - 1 WP seems good to me
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 886	Posted - 2013.01.23 12:54:00 - [38] - Quote Weekly skill cap with increased soft cap is the best option....thx for listening. If the softcap is 1 wp = 1sp then it wouldn't matter if there is a cap on the softcap or not. Because 1000 sps will suffice if you guys are adamant on keeping the skill progression, relatively uniform. I would vote for no cap on the softcap because it isn't every game where you hit 2500 sps in one match. But again, it wouldn't matter. Or, do a 1wp = .5 sp with no cap on the softcap, that may be better. That way, every wp will still count. Because I can see guys stop going hard once they've hit 1K wps in one match
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 248	Posted - 2013.01.23 12:55:00 - [39] - Quote Just wanted to say thank you so much for actively engaging us on this subject (active engagement on any subject is most welcome, but most of all here on this most important of topics). You are really starting to feel like you listen when you try this after we discussed you trying this method out instead of randomly changing things without our direct input. <---Long and twisty sentence, I know, but basically THANK YOU FOR LISTENING CCP! ~Overlord Ulath
Yay Adski Imperfects Negative-Feedback 133	Posted - 2013.01.23 12:58:00 - [40] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Weekly skill cap with increased soft cap is the best option....thx for listening. If the softcap is 1 wp = 1sp then it wouldn't matter if there is a cap on the softcap or not. Because 1000 sps will suffice if you guys are adamant on keeping the skill progression, relatively uniform. I would vote for no cap on the softcap because it isn't every game where you hit 2500 sps in one match. But again, it wouldn't matter. Or, do a 1wp = .5 sp with no cap on the softcap, that may be better. That way, every wp will still count. Because I can see guys stop going hard once they've hit 1K wps in one match Hit the 1k wp in match and go hide, no risking of losing suits etc as you've already hit the max, besides the cap punishes the good casuals because they won't be able to get the extra sp to help keep up.

D'Finn Rhedlyne Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 266	Posted - 2013.01.23 13:00:00 - [41] - Quote In all fairness, the increased soft cap is probably the best option. However, I do see the better players earning 2000+ per match (i'm sure i have even seen a few 3000+, props to those guys!). So my suggestion is to raise the soft cap to 1500, this way an average player who has a good game (at say, 1275sp) is rewarded fully for his/her efforts and the better players don't feel as cheated. This would also prevent HAV rolf stompers gaining far to much SP, if the no limit soft cap was applied.
OgTheEnigma Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 90	Posted - 2013.01.23 13:01:00 - [42] - Quote I voted weekly without a limit on the soft cap. I don't believe having a limit of 1000 makes sense when it's applied to both ambush and skirmish. Generally skirmish games last longer and you can get more warpoints over the whole game. If there's a limit on what you can earn in a single game then that would push people to ambush if they want to grind that little bit extra. Still, either option is far better than the pittance of 50SP.
Icy Tiger Universal Allies Inc. 1026	Posted - 2013.01.23 13:19:00 - [43] - Quote And this CCP is why you guys are bosses.
Oxskull Duncarino Shadow Company HQ 165	Posted - 2013.01.23 13:20:00 - [44] - Quote Mr Gloo Gloo wrote: voted ;) !!! One more thing : no soft cap 1000sp per game --> MCC farming ahead !!! The soft cap 1WP=1SP feels really good to me ;) !!! This is the reason that changed me from #2 to #5. At least once at the soft cap, if you want more SP you have to play the game. No one sitting in the MCC playing with themselves from about Sunday to the Wednesday reset. Happy days Edit: As usual, it took a second read for me to realise that it's #2 I want. On first read I though everyone got a straight 1000sp per game at the soft cap for #2, but it's not that way. It's 1wp=1sp to a max of 1000sp. That suits me down to the ground.
x-Sasquatch-x Algintal Core Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2013.01.23 13:26:00 - [45] - Quote This voting can be easily rigged I hope ccp knows this. I have enough alts to sway this vote myself over 10+3 each. So i hope they take this into account cause I am having my corp make alts so we can get the votes we want.
trollface dot jpg Destined 4 Biomass 24	Posted - 2013.01.23 13:26:00 - [46] - Quote Yay Adski wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Weekly skill cap with increased soft cap is the best option....thx for listening. If the softcap is 1 wp = 1sp then it wouldn't matter if there is a cap on the softcap or not. Because 1000 sps will suffice if you guys are adamant on keeping the skill progression, relatively uniform. I would vote for no cap on the softcap because it isn't every game where you hit 2500 sps in one match. But again, it wouldn't matter. Or, do a 1wp = .5 sp with no cap on the softcap, that may be better. That way, every wp will still count. Because I can see guys stop going hard once they've hit 1K wps in one match Hit the 1k wp in match and go hide, no risking of losing suits etc as you've already hit the max, besides the cap punishes the good casuals because they won't be able to get the extra sp to help keep up. No cap means no lifers get much further ahead of casuals, so I see no reason that no cap would be better for them than a soft cap. Basically: high soft cap = bad for casuals and no lifers for opposite reasons, but reasonably balanced for both. no cap = good for no lifers, terrible for casuals. No lifers would grind 3x as much SP as the average casual could get with the high soft cap. Closer to 6x as much with the uncapped method. How is that an advantage for casuals?
NAV HIV The Generals 151	Posted - 2013.01.23 13:30:00 - [47] - Quote Thank you CCP
Yay Adski Imperfects Negative-Feedback 133	Posted - 2013.01.23 13:31:00 - [48] - Quote trollface dot jpg wrote: Yay Adski wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Weekly skill cap with increased soft cap is the best option....thx for listening. If the softcap is 1 wp = 1sp then it wouldn't matter if there is a cap on the softcap or not. Because 1000 sps will suffice if you guys are adamant on keeping the skill progression, relatively uniform. I would vote for no cap on the softcap because it isn't every game where you hit 2500 sps in one match. But again, it wouldn't matter. Or, do a 1wp = .5 sp with no cap on the softcap, that may be better. That way, every wp will still count. Because I can see guys stop going hard once they've hit 1K wps in one match Hit the 1k wp in match and go hide, no risking of losing suits etc as you've already hit the max, besides the cap punishes the good casuals because they won't be able to get the extra sp to help keep up. No cap means no lifers get much further ahead of casuals, so I see no reason that no cap would be better for them than a soft cap. Basically: high soft cap = bad for casuals and no lifers for opposite reasons, but reasonably balanced for both. no cap = good for no lifers, terrible for casuals. No lifers would grind 3x as much SP as the average casual could get with the high soft cap. Closer to 6x as much with the uncapped method. How is that an advantage for casuals? It will never be an advantage for casuals, with active SP it will always be like that. However with the WP option the casuals actually have chance to earn more the times they do actually get to play. If you play on weekends and play 20 matches and get 1.5k wp per match you only earn 20k but with the wp option you earn 30k.
Takahiro Kashuken Intara Direct Action Caldari State 102	Posted - 2013.01.23 13:40:00 - [49] - Quote I voted for option 5 No limit to the soft cap so if you do better than 1000WP you get rewarded for it which is fine For those saying 'no lifers will be millions ahead' - why shouldnt they be ahead, they would be anyways if option 2 goes through and every MP ive ever played someone is always ahead of you these days so really its HTFU and deal with it
Gary Vader Doomheim 8	Posted - 2013.01.23 13:45:00 - [50] - Quote Yay Adski wrote: trollface dot jpg wrote: Yay Adski wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Weekly skill cap with increased soft cap is the best option....thx for listening. If the softcap is 1 wp = 1sp then it wouldn't matter if there is a cap on the softcap or not. Because 1000 sps will suffice if you guys are adamant on keeping the skill progression, relatively uniform. I would vote for no cap on the softcap because it isn't every game where you hit 2500 sps in one match. But again, it wouldn't matter. Or, do a 1wp = .5 sp with no cap on the softcap, that may be better. That way, every wp will still count. Because I can see guys stop going hard once they've hit 1K wps in one match Hit the 1k wp in match and go hide, no risking of losing suits etc as you've already hit the max, besides the cap punishes the good casuals because they won't be able to get the extra sp to help keep up. No cap means no lifers get much further ahead of casuals, so I see no reason that no cap would be better for them than a soft cap. Basically: high soft cap = bad for casuals and no lifers for opposite reasons, but reasonably balanced for both. no cap = good for no lifers, terrible for casuals. No lifers would grind 3x as much SP as the average casual could get with the high soft cap. Closer to 6x as much with the uncapped method. How is that an advantage for casuals? It will never be an advantage for casuals, with active SP it will always be like that. However with the WP option the casuals actually have chance to earn more the times they do actually get to play. If you play on weekends and play 20 matches and get 1.5k wp per match you only earn 20k but with the wp option you earn 30k. True, but for the majority of the player base it would be more overall balanced to have a 1000 cap. Not everyone manages 1000 SP every match, and when they do, why would they stop trying? People right now play knowing all they are going to get is 50-75 WP, but they keep at it. Sure, some sit to the side and fuk around in the MCC instead of helping, but I've rarely seen it happen at all. I've never seen more than one person at it at a time. You may have, other people may have, but I haven't, so it can't be so bad that it's effecting everyone when I can play 8 hours a day and not see more than 3 people doing it a day. You are trying to prevent a problem that doesn't exist. Also, just because it can't be an advantage for casuals doesn't mean we need to increase the advantage for no lifers.

Captain-Awesome Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 349	Posted - 2013.01.23 13:47:00 - [51] - Quote I agree with everyone here - both options 2 and 5 are the better, I'm a gamer who can't play weekends, so the weekly reset is much better for me. I voted number 2 initially because it means not being in a match doing corp politics won't cost you so much SP compared to the no limit. But then I think people won't make as much of an effort if the cap is so easy to hit. even without the limit - 2k sp isn't that much.
jeanmiaou What The French 2	Posted - 2013.01.23 13:49:00 - [52] - Quote 3#
Cyra Raptor Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords 0	Posted - 2013.01.23 13:49:00 - [53] - Quote Gary Vader wrote: Sure, some sit to the side and fuk around in the MCC instead of helping, but I've rarely seen it happen at all. I've never seen more than one person at it at a time. You may have, other people may have, but I haven't, so it can't be so bad that it's effecting everyone when I can play 8 hours a day and not see more than 3 people doing it a day. they are called snipers
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1155	Posted - 2013.01.23 13:51:00 - [54] - Quote That vote is a good idea CCP. Something you should do on a regular basis on strong subject such as this one. Kudos
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 114	Posted - 2013.01.23 13:51:00 - [55] - Quote CCP Cmdr Wang wrote: We would like to remind you that these changes do not represent the final skill point system and that we are still working hard on getting to the fully polished rollover system later on. Cool ^.^ Almost all the people on forums atm like the EVE skill point system. It puts old players at a constant advantage over new ones. It might be fun in EVE, but for a FPS game I want competition, and making everyone who has not played since beta at a disadvantage would not be fun for me. I know everyone is suggesting their own idea, but imo the best idea is to work towards the removal of the sp cap. Put the SP cap system you want on a shadow character, and cap everyone else's SP at that. Increase the cap based on the system you choose. If you have a passive sp cap, just add the most amount of SP earned by a character to the next day's or week's SP cap. I just don't want new players to be at an eternal disadvantage. Also, I'd prefer it if the SP and rewards were increased in skirmish or reduced in ambush. Right now there's more isk and sp incentive to play ambush over skirmish. edit: I think people are atm worried that everyone will be in proto and they won't, which wouldn't be fun for them. Well, it's not going to be fun for any new players after a month if they think the game will always be like this. Once the older players get proto, the cap system won't matter as much for them because they already have what they want.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 248	Posted - 2013.01.23 13:53:00 - [56] - Quote Cyra Raptor wrote: Gary Vader wrote: Sure, some sit to the side and fuk around in the MCC instead of helping, but I've rarely seen it happen at all. I've never seen more than one person at it at a time. You may have, other people may have, but I haven't, so it can't be so bad that it's effecting everyone when I can play 8 hours a day and not see more than 3 people doing it a day. they are called snipers Yeah, having loads of snipers is a pain. But at the same time, if your whole team is sniping, you get all of the kills on the field to yourself.
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming 2283	Posted - 2013.01.23 14:01:00 - [57] - Quote #2 or #5 id like to be rewarded for my play so #5 appeals to me altho i wont mind #2 either but ya those are the 2 choices for me and thanks for the update on the rollover system. hopefully it does come into play soon
Rich o United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 9	Posted - 2013.01.23 14:03:00 - [58] - Quote 2) Weekly cap with an increased soft cap
Klank Klank VENGEANCE FOR HIRE 20	Posted - 2013.01.23 14:06:00 - [59] - Quote #5 Weekly cap with no limit to the soft cap. Reward the good players for being good, including the people who are good, but not killers, like our lovely logibros
Sontie VENGEANCE FOR HIRE 95	Posted - 2013.01.23 14:11:00 - [60] - Quote Also, not having a limit on the soft cap will mean skirmishes become more attractive. With a soft cap at 1k, I would just grind the flip out of ambushes, and those nubs don't need me doing that.



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