protoman won't be happy about this

im guessing precision strike will be removed once the game goes live and it will be orbital strike only from eve players..

what exactly "takes skill" out of anything when playing video games? a guy pushes a button and jiggles a little stick anyway ulook at it, it's not that impressive.. skill is stuff like playing pool, tig welding, or flying a real space ship not internet ones.

This is my opinion, hate all you want on it.

AR's are too effective. At this moment in time they are the only viable way to get kills. I'm seeing people go 30/4 with a GEK slaughtering anyone who doesn't use an AR.

AR's pretty much take up the role of Shotgun, Sniper rifle, Laser Rifle, and SMG's. If you have an AR you are instantly jesus.

They have absurd damage, absurd mag sizes, and absurd accuracy, absurd ROF, with no recoil whatsoever. It's like playing the game on auto-pilot. What's the point of having squads if you can just use an AR? Oh I know! To have 3 other people that have AR's so you can completely dominate every aspect of the game.

You need a heavy to take out a vehicle? Nope. Just get X amount of WP in 10 seconds, and call down an orbital to kill that pesky tank.

Use the GEK to kill 3 enemies, get an orbital, and kill enough people with the orbital to get another orbital, repeat.

Sniper on a hill? No problem, shoot 10 bullets from your GEK with it's insane ROF/Dmg. and he's dead.

Logistics with a mass driver? shoot 15 bullets from your GEK with it's insane ROF. and he's dead.

Tank? No problem, use one AV grenade he's dead.

LAV? No problem, us an AV grenade or shoot one full mag from your GEK and he's dead.

The fact is that you don't need any other class except assault in this game. And you get very harshly punished if you dare try to use any weapon except the AR.

CCP, stop making AR's into the MP40 of World at war.

I would be fine with Assault Rifles if they had one effective range instead of being 100% dominate at all ranges.
But it won't happen because of the mass influx of people who are about to bash on me.

Sorry, it doesn't take "skill" to hold R1.

Nobody is ever happy about anything on these forums.

Edit: and stoop to your level using an OP weapon to gank the enemy? The fact is I already am better. Because I don't rely on cheap weapons to win.

Nobody is ever happy about anything on these forums.

Edit: and stoop to your level using an OP weapon to gank the enemy? The fact is I already am better. Because I don't rely on cheap weapons to win.

Nobody is ever happy about anything on these forums.

Edit: and stoop to your level using an OP weapon to gank the enemy? The fact is I already am better. Because I don't rely on cheap weapons to win.

Am I the only one that believes that CCP is, trying, to make things as realistic as possible? Nerfing the AR would be like converting an M-16 into a .22, ridiculous. Assault Rifles, in-game and in real combat are used for a reason. They are deadly for that same reason.

So you all think they should be god guns with no recoil, max damage, max range, max mag size?

Good luck with that.

So you all think they should be god guns with no recoil, max damage, max range, max mag size?

Good luck with that.

Why would the AR's have bullet drop? Last I checked they used plasma encased in an electro-magnetic field that disperses when striking an object. If anything, there should be venting of gases, but not spent shells. Or maybe I read the description wrong in which ignore this.

But recoil can be reduced by shortening a stock, making the barrel heavier and by using a brake system. Which would factor in-game why there is little to no recoil when firing a weapon. As I've stated in other posts, I'm a Marine, there is no ex, and I've dealt with recoil and adjusted the gun when necessary to reduce recoil when firing.

Maybe I'm getting to in depth and out of porportion, what ever.

They just need some of the recoil put back in and then they'd be fine. They're ridiculously stable right now, when compared to the other weapons.

This is coming from a logibro, by the way.

They just need some of the recoil put back in and then they'd be fine. They're ridiculously stable right now, when compared to the other weapons.

This is coming from a logibro, by the way.

This. Now everyone go to the feedback thread and agree with me :D

Edit:
@ Flag
Yeah, but YOU, the marine, adjust to the weapon. You have practise, and I'm sure you'd never try full auto vs someone at 200m
I'm NOT in the army. But I fired an M-16 in the states. Fully auto I put 3 rounds into a target at 20 yards. I think you'd do FAR better at managing the recoil.
Like I say, I don't have the experience you do.

Look, balance > realism. I understand that they are high tech weapons. But it's a game. they have to have limits or they will be abused. Damn.

Yeah, creodon/breach could be the zero recoil rifle due to low fire rate. Atleast it'd be kinda useful at something then.

sniper will own a AR at the proper range.. AR can't reach. ask sleepy how to do it..

so OP what gun should we all be using instead?

This is my opinion, hate all you want on it.

AR's are too effective. At this moment in time they are the only viable way to get kills. I'm seeing people go 30/4 with a GEK slaughtering anyone who doesn't use an AR.

AR's pretty much take up the role of Shotgun, Sniper rifle, Laser Rifle, and SMG's. If you have an AR you are instantly jesus.

They have absurd damage, absurd mag sizes, and absurd accuracy, absurd ROF, with no recoil whatsoever. It's like playing the game on auto-pilot. What's the point of having squads if you can just use an AR? Oh I know! To have 3 other people that have AR's so you can completely dominate every aspect of the game.

You need a heavy to take out a vehicle? Nope. Just get X amount of WP in 10 seconds, and call down an orbital to kill that pesky tank.

Use the GEK to kill 3 enemies, get an orbital, and kill enough people with the orbital to get another orbital, repeat.

Sniper on a hill? No problem, shoot 10 bullets from your GEK with it's insane ROF/Dmg. and he's dead.

Logistics with a mass driver? shoot 15 bullets from your GEK with it's insane ROF. and he's dead.

Tank? No problem, use one AV grenade he's dead.

LAV? No problem, us an AV grenade or shoot one full mag from your GEK and he's dead.

The fact is that you don't need any other class except assault in this game. And you get very harshly punished if you dare try to use any weapon except the AR.

CCP, stop making AR's into the MP40 of World at war.

I would be fine with Assault Rifles if they had one effective range instead of being 100% dominate at all ranges.
But it won't happen because of the mass influx of people who are about to bash on me.

Sorry, it doesn't take "skill" to hold R1.

Laser rifles can drop you quick in the hands of a skilled player, shotguns are still the best for CQC and HMG can take out groups of enemies.

This. Now everyone go to the feedback thread and agree with me :D

Edit:
@ Flag
Yeah, but YOU, the marine, adjust to the weapon. You have practise, and I'm sure you'd never try full auto vs someone at 200m
I'm NOT in the army. But I fired an M-16 in the states. Fully auto I put 3 rounds into a target at 20 yards. I think you'd do FAR better at managing the recoil.
Like I say, I don't have the experience you do.

SR loses out to AR at just about all ranges, except for extreme long and at those ranges SR is a pretty limited weapon too - yeah you can get a cap with SR into an assault suit that runs with an AR but second later they would be behind cover and regen lost HP - sniper in 2/3 times wont have another shot to finish the job. What happens next - who knows, the same assault suit might sneak up on the sniper and teach him a lesson at close range just to prove a point. In my experience the argument that 'SR >> AR at long range' is a weak one.

You're right. Because of my practice I was able to manage my recoil. But isn't that what AR OP is for in game? To Stabilize the weapon better for more accurate firing and less recoil?

sniper will own a AR at the proper range.. AR can't reach. ask sleepy how to do it..

so OP what gun should we all be using instead?

no it only increases the dmg.. there is skills to reload faster and another to increase range

Guess I'm doing it wrong, but I lose more than I win against AR guys at 400m. That has never happened up until this build. I would lose to AR's at medium range, but nothing longer than 350m. Now I'm losing routinely.

Maybe it's range, maybe it's no recoil, but the AR currently is the best gun for every situation. It's an automatic sniper rifle as is, which renders the SR almost useless on these maps that are fenced in by the red line of death.

Ahh, yeah you're right. Wasn't on Dust to actually see what Skill did what. My bad on that.

protoman won't be happy about this

But seriously, instead of CCP nerfing ARs why don't you just get better

I do not believe that the AR (Assault Rifle) needs any sort of balancing, or lowering. It is suppose to naturally be that go-to weapon, and the undeniable all-purpose weapon. What I have noticed this build is that due to CCP slowing the game down a slight bit between lowering the character speeds, and strafe (for purpose speculated) that the 'Scout' variant is a lot harder to take to the front lines. Almost an undeniable liability to play unless you are literally armed with a stealth module. Also I took to noticing that the SMG has seen a slight balancing in which it now is litterally useless nigh without passive skills to enforce it's natural killing ability. Having a steady hand helps a lot too. The shotgun is still naturally brutal and even more so when that stealth module wielding player nails you in the back while you are unaware of his/her prescence. The forge gun is beyond deadly, and so is the mass driver. Ran into someone wielding one infact last night and they were able to dispense of me before I could get comfortable enough to fire properly. A direct hit like that of the forge gun is lethality at it's finest. The swarm dismantles armored and non armored vehicles to ashes, and speaks for itself. The scrambler pistol is again still relevent as well. Infact I may as well just say that all weapons are still capable and lethal killing tools. However! They are nonetheless tools and only as powerful and/or lethal as the player/merc/Duster whom is wielding them.

Spouting that the AR, the go-to all-purpose weapon needs to be rebalanced is nonesense. It's your opinion, but it certainly does not need one. Even the laser rifle is getting plenty kills and use by Dusters on the battlefield. CCP makes all of the dropsuits in terms of armor plating and shielding the same, and people still complain. If anything the game is increadibly balanced at the moment. The only problem apparent is the flaws in the players, and unfortunetly it's these said players blaming everyone and especially the game for their problems other then themselves.

Are there legitimate issues to be concerned about? Yes. Is this thread detracting from them? Yes.

Whoa there killer. Yes, the AR should be the go to weapon, but it shouldn't be able to shoot a flea off a horse's back at 350m. Currently, it can. Why? No recoil like last build. No spray. The spray has been replaced with a straight line, which makes it OP. You have your opinion, and I have mine.

Not sure what you're talking about with all the suits having the armor and shielding the same, and complaints. I wouldn't want them to be the same (talking about militia to proto).

And yes, the speeds have been lowered. The problem is the scout suit now has no niche. I can't imagine using them in the front lines with how paper thin they are, regardless of speed. But I digress.

To each his own...

You must know your meters. I've yet to see someone do that with an AR. So I think you are simply exaggerating. There is a little recoil, but how much should there be? As for how accurate it is? Shooting a straight line is a good thing in my opinion, but then again it's not a scattergun. I do not see people complaining overly about the laser rifle and it shoots just as straight. Same with the scrambler pistol. The reason for the low accuracy though of the SMG is simply due to it having almost no barrel, which equals less spin on the bullet itself.

The dropsuits are fine as they are now, and very well balanced. The only reason for wanting the higher tech level gear is for more options, and generated power -- CPU (Central Processing Unit) and PG (Power Grid) -- and more module, and equipment options. If you want more or less shielding/armor pick-up a different subtype -- 'Scout', 'Logistical', 'Assault', and 'Heavy". Which again all have their own pros and cons.

Has the 'Scout' lost it's niche' though? I could not tell you. It's not a front line runner, or shock trooper anymore like it has been in the past, but it still a great recon, assassin, and sniper. Infact they are superb in those areas. I'd like more data on it, but then again I doubt I'll see that data ever.

Back to the topic at hand though; the AR is fine at the moment. People are just unruly, complaining griefers. Who are all too willing to lay blame to everything other then themselves for the most part.

I took up this fight a while back, it wasn't well met. They need more kickback and to be just a little less accurate until you skill all the way up, also their range should be shaved back just the tiniest bit.

It's the little things at this point, they just need to tweak and turn the dials a bit to find the perfect setting. ARs will always be the go to weapon for most people, it just shouldn't be such a blatantly obvious choice.

See people want to call the OP a troll cause he's calling for a nerf on their chosen weapon, his arguement kinda sounds a lot like all the whiny little bitches over the tanks.....Im just saying.

See and tanks got nerfed cause people couldn't adapt and overcome. Although that seems to be the go to response on these forums for anything someone disagrees with when it comes to weapon equality....

- In the new build, the heavies are quite difficult to take out with an AR, using my GEK with 3% mod I sunk almost 2 1/2 clips into a heavy, who still didn't die, but I died from his teammates who heard me unloading clip after clip, giving away my position. No lag in this example either, and his heath was diminishing as my bullets hit.

OP is a whiney little ***** though

Huh, I drop heavies in half a clip or so of my militia AR on the starter assault suit. They're WICKED easy to get headshots on since they strafe about as fast as fat albert....

EDIT: Did you seriously just mention AR vs LAV.....did I actually just read that? Hey guys, why can't my Rifter kill your Moros? Why would you even bring that up?

You seem to be as well....just saying there proto.

Am I the only one that believes that CCP is, trying, to make things as realistic as possible? Nerfing the AR would be like converting an M-16 into a .22, ridiculous. Assault Rifles, in-game and in real combat are used for a reason. They are deadly for that same reason.

- In close range combat, I have found that the SMG > AR. in fact many smart and really good players resort to using their SMG in close range vs using their AR.

- Likewise in close range combat the shotgun EASILY outguns an AR player, shotguns are horribly OP OHK weapons with a pretty decent range (almost as much as the AR, which is ridiculous... what the heck are they shooting, slugs?).

- In long distance combat, as in AR vs sniper, sniper wins hands down since the AR can only hit something ~100 feet away (which needs to be adjusted, the range right now is abysmal and horribly unrealistic). AR wielding folks are massively outgunned by a sniper, as it requires us to run ALL the way over to where the sniper is just to get a chance of a bullet hitting. And usually we are unable to make it that far without being sniped/killed by them or somebody else.

- In the new build, the heavies are quite difficult to take out with an AR, using my GEK with 3% mod I sunk almost 2 1/2 clips into a heavy, who still didn't die, but I died from his teammates who heard me unloading clip after clip, giving away my position. No lag in this example either, and his heath was diminishing as my bullets hit.

- As for AR vs tank, your example is obviously exaggerated beyond belief. 1 AV grenade? Please. Also FYI, this has nothing to do with the assault rifle. By your example, it could work with ANY loadout, suit and weapon combo as long as somebody has AV nades.

- AR vs LAV, again you talk about AV nades which is != (not equal to, if you are into programming lingo) an assault rifle. And as for unloading a clip and that's it, you clearly have never tried this. I could sit there and unload clip after clip after clip into a LAV, and barely make a dent. Although if you are sitting in back on the mounted gun, I can take you out as easily as I can take you out as if you were not in the LAV. But an AR exclusively against a LAV is about as useless as it gets, try it sometime.



In regard to your closing statement, the AR is FAR from a end-all weapon, we are out classed by sniper, heavies, shotgun users, and SMG users (at their appropriate ranges of course). And as for you making the claim that the range is infinite, seriously? Have you ever actually used a assault rifle in this game? THE RANGE IS PATHETIC. Heck, the shotgun might actually have better range than we do.

It seems 90% of the time I aim at a target that really isn't that far away, they are out of range and I have to keep moving closer. We practically have to get right up in somebody's face to make hits count, and at which point the SMG users, shotgunners, and heavies can outgun us easily.

OP, you obviously have no clue what you are talking about. I'm sure you just had a few bad games where you got owned by AR folks with ease, trust me I know the feeling. And I won't lie, it is very aggravating, not just from AR folks, but from every class in the game. They are all OP in their own way.

dont really think they need a nerf but the dropsuits need to go back to their pre-E3 stats and i think it will balance out. there will actually be gunfights that last longer than 3seconds, ability for crap players to take cover, and triple teams wont be much of an issue.

Honestly, people need to quit using the "quit asking for nerfs ect", that is not a viable argument for anything. If it needs it, it will happen. It will continue to happen throughout the games lifecycle as in all MMO's, so just deal with it. Matter of fact the reason WoW is dying is becuase they stopped rebalancing frequently and therefore the balance is ****.

Now to the issue at hand. AR's right now are THE tool for any situation instead of A tool that can handle any situation. They have been like this pretty much the entire time regardless of build. I have mentioned this in every build. They are far to accurate long range, and deal DPS in such a fast stream due to fire rate they can out DPS a shotgun at close range. (BTW whoever said shotguns have range comparable to an AR has never used a shotgun).

AR's right now are simply the best tool for any given situation with the exception of very unique niche/extreme circumstance situations. If I have a shotgun, and I don't surprise an AR user from behind, he will always out DPS me unless I pull something outta my ass.

If I have a sniper rifle, and the AR user spots me at the same time I spot him, I am dead before I can fire the second shot its going to take to bring him down.

Mid range, well thats where AR's live so that one is obvious.

AR's are simply THE tool to use for 85% of combat situations. The only people using anything else are doing so to complement their playstyle, and are trudging through it. This "get your gun game up" argument is BS and is an illusion of granduer. The argument that the AR "should be the go to gun for killing" is a rediculous statement in a game about....killling. (Not like their is a talk it out or surrender button).

Every gun needs a niche and that niche should be range specific, with aesthetic or operational preferences for gun types in the same range category. Tweaks are part of the game and always will be so quit bashing people for bringing up areas that need it next. I am all for rebalancing continuously as we are not just changing one thing at a time between builds, so different things interact differently. Just a little commen sense here people I know it's fun to dominate, but how old will it get when everyone "adapts" and has an AR, with no variety.

Standard AR's need recoil

Breach AR's need an overall performance boost ( increase clip size to 42 and an slight increase in RoF)

no it only increases the dmg.. there is skills to reload faster and another to increase range

Standard AR's need recoil

Breach AR's need an overall performance boost ( increase clip size to 42 and an slight increase in RoF)

I find this really interesting that everyone calls for a nerf when things don't go their way or something that they have grown accustomed to playing with in OTHER GAMES doesn't necessarily work in THIS GAME.

For one, this isn't the OTHER GAMES. Hasn't claimed to be, yet so many people in this beta want this game to be like OTHER GAMES. We have already seen the faulty outcome of this in reduction of strafing speed (especially in the scout suits).

Please, everyone, tale a BIG DEEP BREATH, and clear your mind of the nonsense of all the OTHER GAMES you have played, and attempt to no impose those expectations onto THIS GAME. This is DUST, NOT COD, BF3, MOH, UT3, Halo, or any of those OTHER games.

I fear all of this trolling is distracting CCP from making their game and they are being bullied by the forum posters to make the game a COD, BF3, etc. knock off instead of letting the developers create and then give birth to their vision/game.

It sounds like if people removed their expectations, or at least tempered them dramatically, a few more people on this beta and forum would be a bit less frustrated and a bit more enjoyable.

Just an observation.

The assault rifle needs more recoil and a damage penalty at close range. The laser rifle does reduced damage below it's optimal range, the assault rifle should also but it's optimal range should remain subpar to now just with damage penalties on the low end of it.

No flame intended here, just a question about how a slug thring weapon like the AR could possibly have greater damage at distance than close up. Normal damage falls off with time and range, it doesn't get better.

Recoil is a function of the gun, not the range you are firing at. It can't possibly change.

If a gun has poor Dispersion at close quarters, it's just going to be worse at range. That is why SMGs and shotguns are so poor at range. You only hit with a fraction of your output.

Since the issue is balance, would it not make more sense to buff the DPS of CQC weapons than to mess with the AR?

1: The DUST AR is not firing slugs
2: Recoil is the same per shot regardless of RoF, but the higher the RoF, the more this accumulates. It is easy to compensate for the recoil of a single shot, but considerably harder at full auto

We don't need more damage, we need less. The higher the damage, the more the game devolves into see first - win. If people die slower, they have more time to react.

Slug, energy packet, whatever. My point was that when the shot leaves the barrel of the gun it has all the energy it will ever have. It doesn't magically soak up additional energy from the surrounding air. The plasma charge will only dissapate with time and distance. Missiles on the other hand can have an arming time/distance which render them useless at close range.

Recoil does not increase with extended fire, rather the cumulitve effect of recoil does build up over time and will walk your aim away from your target. But that is not a solution to CQC. Close quarter combat is very forgiving of recoil. SMGs have terrible recoil given their low weight and high output. Shotguns have even more kick, though it has a slow RoF. If AR's had enough recoil to interfere with CQC they would be worse at mid range and utterly useless beyond that.

protoman won't be happy about this

But seriously, instead of CCP nerfing ARs why don't you just get better

I do not believe that the AR (Assault Rifle) needs any sort of balancing, or lowering. It is suppose to naturally be that go-to weapon, and the undeniable all-purpose weapon. What I have noticed this build is that due to CCP slowing the game down a slight bit between lowering the character speeds, and strafe (for purpose speculated) that the 'Scout' variant is a lot harder to take to the front lines. Almost an undeniable liability to play unless you are literally armed with a stealth module. Also I took to noticing that the SMG has seen a slight balancing in which it now is litterally useless nigh without passive skills to enforce it's natural killing ability. Having a steady hand helps a lot too. The shotgun is still naturally brutal and even more so when that stealth module wielding player nails you in the back while you are unaware of his/her prescence. The forge gun is beyond deadly, and so is the mass driver. Ran into someone wielding one infact last night and they were able to dispense of me before I could get comfortable enough to fire properly. A direct hit like that of the forge gun is lethality at it's finest. The swarm dismantles armored and non armored vehicles to ashes, and speaks for itself. The scrambler pistol is again still relevent as well. Infact I may as well just say that all weapons are still capable and lethal killing tools. However! They are nonetheless tools and only as powerful and/or lethal as the player/merc/Duster whom is wielding them.

Spouting that the AR, the go-to all-purpose weapon needs to be rebalanced is nonesense. It's your opinion, but it certainly does not need one. Even the laser rifle is getting plenty kills and use by Dusters on the battlefield. CCP makes all of the dropsuits in terms of armor plating and shielding the same, and people still complain. If anything the game is increadibly balanced at the moment. The only problem apparent is the flaws in the players, and unfortunetly it's these said players blaming everyone and especially the game for their problems other then themselves.

Are there legitimate issues to be concerned about? Yes. Is this thread detracting from them? Yes.

I had completely the opposite experience. I hate playing with AR and pick it up only to compare it to other weapons - everytime I tried AR kills would start coming unnaturally easy. Here are some of my thoughts on how other weapons compare. Particularly, speaking of MD -- MD is a weapon that I often use trying to test it in different situations. It is far from deadly - might as well be shooting cotton balls. It finally has hit detection and shell detonation that were simply absent in last build but despite the claimed balancing, all other aspects of the weapon are sub-par. As far as other weapons are concerned I can only speak for SR and HMG in this build, again, same story - far inferior to AR.

1. MD - low rate of fire, low total capacity, low clip size, very low damage and - hard to shoot (gotta calculate the arch and shells fly super slow)
3. SR - poor scope zoom, mad sway unless crouching for a few seconds, low mag size, relatively low ROF, AND in this build it seems that damage somehow got nerfed - you just can't one shot a suit with a Charge SR like you used to before.
4. HMG - total joke at all but the shortest range, limited to an unwieldy and expenisive heavy suit, and again, the damage is kinda low, maybe marginally better than AR but ONLY at low range.

Contrast to AR:
Brutal damage, brutal accuracy, long range, huge mag and total capacity.

What will end up happening is that ppl will stop playing all weapons except for AR and this will make the game completely stale and boring.

Should AR be the universal weapon? - sure. But it should not be the ultimate weapon. It should not trump all other specialist weapons across the entire situational spectrum.

Seeing as people ignore the science of why there should be no recoil, let me ask this. Why do people keep thinking that these weapons use archaic brass and lead as the projectile? I'm sorry, I hate to sound like I'm being rude or mean, but what's hard to understand here?

Then I suggest, and this will go against everything CCP has built so far, make all the weapons projectile based. Forget fancy futuristic weapons, lets revert back to brass and lead, and get CCP to take real world weapon descriptions then we can be just like all these other FPS games. There's your recoil, then all this bickering and blah, blah, blah can stop.

Then I suggest, and this will go against everything CCP has built so far, make all the weapons projectile based. Forget fancy futuristic weapons, lets revert back to brass and lead, and get CCP to take real world weapon descriptions then we can be just like all these other FPS games. There's your recoil, then all this bickering and blah, blah, blah can stop.

Then I suggest, and this will go against everything CCP has built so far, make all the weapons projectile based. Forget fancy futuristic weapons, lets revert back to brass and lead, and get CCP to take real world weapon descriptions then we can be just like all these other FPS games. There's your recoil, then all this bickering and blah, blah, blah can stop.

Why...lore is irrelevant for balancing. I think you all just want to keep your pwnguns, just like you wanted to keep your solopwnmobiles, and use all these justifications just to keep your edge. A game should never have a gun that is better in every situation than the gun that is designed for that situation. An AR should be good in every situation, but inferior to the specialist gun.

AR should be better at long range than everything but the Sniper Rifle. Currently it is better than the SR.
AR should be better at mid range than everything but the HMG. Currently it is better than the HMG.
AR should be better at close range than everything but the Shotgun and maybe the SMG. Currently it is better than both.

The science argument is pretty weak, imho. You could come up with any futuristic idea that is within the realm of possibility to make your argument.. At the end of the day, it's a game. Balance trumps "science". It also trumps your idea of what will be possible in 100 years.

Why don't we remove other guns then?
AR is the only gun we need , saves CCP time.

op:

go play cod.

the whole game has is about finding your balance.

you get merced by an AR, then YOU are doing something wrong.

not the ar guy.


don't nerf it. don't nerf anything.

actually BUFF every weapon every time someone asks for a nerf.

"wahhhhhhhh i tried to kill an assault guy with my sniper rifle and he won, so the AR is op"


op = ovaries got bruised

Peace
B

why?

I don't see why this is an important issue...

People in this thread have complained that the AR is a jack of all trades weapon. Which it is in real life. It can be good for CQC, LRQ, and suppressive fire, and more. The only thing it's not good at is AV.

Lol. To call it OP is really stupid. It's a jack of all trades and will continue to be such. The other weapons are specific and are good what they do. I want someone to tell me that a Tactical Rifle can match the strength, range, and speed of a good Sniper Rifle. I want someone to tell me that in CQC, a shotgun doesn't have a better chance than a Burst Rifle to demolish the enemies armor and shield. I want someone to tell me that a Heavy Machine Gun can't rip through someone faster than a Breach Rifle. Hell.

Seriously? The Assault Rifle will always be a jack of trade because it's a flexible weapon for flexible troops that commit to the frontline.

I easily can take out people with my basic sniper rifle...

And sometimes I EVEN prefer to use my handgun to deal with a threat rather than my AR.

Oh please I can feel the fear all the way from here you are all QQ about the only gun you could get kills with nerfed
This is important it makes other guns useless same with missile launchers.

they do have recoil.. it only recoils up tho and not diagnal (BF3).. still, it is recoil

A day one player should have the same power of gun as a year long player.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but we're talking about DUST here. If you can't level up your gun because it's unfair, then you shouldn't be able to level up armor upgrades and shields either. And if you think having an equipment advantage because you've played longer is unfair, then you should go play CS.

Ultimately, your proposal would unravel the whole progression system of DUST which imo is neither a feasible nor advisable choice. One of the issue for new players in the beta is that there isn't a large enough player pool. There will be matchmaking at launch for pub matches. Right now there aren't enough players to effectively match players.

Patience young one, and calm your knocking knees. The AR menace won't be a menace for long.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but we're talking about DUST here. If you can't level up your gun because it's unfair, then you shouldn't be able to level up armor upgrades and shields either. And if you think having an equipment advantage because you've played longer is unfair, then you should go play CS.

Ultimately, your proposal would unravel the whole progression system of DUST which imo is neither a feasible nor advisable choice. One of the issue for new players in the beta is that there isn't a large enough player pool. There will be matchmaking at launch for pub matches. Right now there aren't enough players to effectively match players.

Patience young one, and calm your knocking knees. The AR menace won't be a menace for long.

True, but I still don't understand how upgrading a "skill" improves gun damage.

True, but I still don't understand how upgrading a "skill" improves gun damage.

Oh please I can feel the fear all the way from here you are all QQ about the only gun you could get kills with nerfed
This is important it makes other guns useless same with missile launchers.

i like how they nerfed the SMG. the incredibly short range with laughable damage that deteriorates as range increases is laughable.

you have to get the jump on someone with a SMG or you will die to their AR in a heartbeat.

Never underestimate the smg

they are effective weapons.

at roughly 5 steps away. i killed plenty with the SMG but if a AR is going to shoot you from 30 meters you better start running because the SMG isn't going to save you.
even if they are able to be damaged by the gun, the damage is very minimalistic as if another force is effecting it. i tried shooting with the pistol up at around 10 meters or so. the length of one of the stupid spires on manus peaks. i shot the sniper three times and didn't even take his shield down 1/10.

they were able to be hit but the damage fall off is just really obnoxious.

Yeah, the smg defiantly got an excessive range nerf. I haven't tried the breach yet but I do agree that they can use an increase to their effective range, but they are only side arms and don't cost as much isk or as much CPU and PG as light weapons. So it would be unreasonable to expect them to preform at the same level. The smg still has the advantage over the AR in cqc, and the pistol can still drop individuals quick and actually has considerable range if you skill up into it.

their range isn't bad. it's the effective range that is bad. you hit targets and you are doing a fraction of the damage.then again i could just be imagining it but i tested the pistol and noticed it much more when trying to hit dudes on top of buildings and what not.

the AR seems to have a bit of a damage decrease at it's max range but i haven't tested it all that much. but if a guy is shooting me just at the tip of their max range i usually get away.

protoman won't be happy about this

But seriously, instead of CCP nerfing ARs why don't you just get better

When I first read this thread..I thought it was a joke. AR is OP? lmkao But 8 pages later....someone is taking this seriously.

This is the biggest joke of a topic ever.

Well... Shooting a rifle that takes more precise aiming than a fully automatic death machine I'd say takes more skill.

lol, no sh*t

Huh, I drop heavies in half a clip or so of my militia AR on the starter assault suit. They're WICKED easy to get headshots on since they strafe about as fast as fat albert....

EDIT: Did you seriously just mention AR vs LAV.....did I actually just read that? Hey guys, why can't my Rifter kill your Moros? Why would you even bring that up?

Well... Shooting a rifle that takes more precise aiming than a fully automatic death machine I'd say takes more skill.

You seriously claim to drop heavies with half a clip of a starter suit AR?

And keep a straight face?

The only thing more OP about them than their damage/accuracy is the fact that precision weapons can't aim well when they're getting shot by one. Same goes for all full-auto weapons.

and lasers...........lasers,..............lasers,................lasers

hahahaahahahahaahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaha, dont like being shot by an AR? go play little big planet

So funny, and so true. I like you Crimewave lot :D (btw r u guys the MAG clan CW?)

AR dont need a NERF. They need more SKILL to be used.

At the moment, there aint any recoil at all. That's wrong.
Hip fire is also too performant at mid distance. And they're also better at close range hip-fire than SMGs which should be the best hip-fire auto weapon.

Correct those two things and you got perfect AR with the current stats.
Restore breach AR to be actually usefull but with a VERY REAL recoil.

Other than that, they're fine and should be kind of the best mid-range weapon through ADS and usefull at close and slightly long range.

This is my opinion, hate all you want on it.

26-0

Laser Rifle

absurd mag sizes, absurd accuracy, absurd ROF, with no recoil whatsoever.

Lol I use the laser rifle all the time and go 26-0*give or take 10 depending on match and when I joined*, but nobody says the laser rifle is OP. I try so hard to get hate. WHY WONT YOU HATE ME QQ


*RAGE QUITS*

Just read the entire thread and it amazes me that not a single one of you muppets has mentioned that there's about 8 different types of assault rifles all specialised in different ways, maybe the snipers are getting picked off by the tac assault rifles and the shotgun fairys are getting killed by the GEKs, they for example are 2 totally different rifles which if switched around, the sniper would kill the high ROF/DPS GEK user because of their range advantage while the shotgun fairy would out DPS the tac rifle user due to the shorter range and higher ROF he has on the shotgun.

It's all relative to the situation and the individual AR's and not a single person in this thread has mentioned specific AR's being OP in specific roles which is what they have, you've all instead bashed every single AR rather than single a specific issue on a specific rifle. If all the AR users was using the Breach you wouldn't see a single complaint .

Also all the posts about their being more % of kills from AR's is obvious, it's nothing to do with AR being more powerful than other weapons, it's to do with the number of users using them. It's simple math.

Meh... I was gonna say this was the most sensible post in this thread but you said you read the entire thread which is not very sensible. You should know by now that any thread that says that something needs a nerf should be ignored.

+1 for making sense
-1 for reading the entire thread

I agree, They need to shoot shorter distances, I think its a bit much to shoot from "C point" into " A Point" on the 3 point map.!

I guess that full sharpshooter and sharpshooter proficiency have been attained , NERF them ALL.


H.D

Don't need a nerf. They are fine this build and they were fine last. The Tact. AR needs fixed, but other than that they're pretty solid. I don't know if you knew this, but ARs should be versatile, because that's kinda what they are build to be. A Jack of All Trades.

ARs have recoil....go full auto and you'll see they'll go straight up.

But forget that.....this is a futuristic game. Guns are made with plasma bullets or whatever the hell the description says. There shouldn't be any recoil on futuristic assault rifles

standard AR's need recoil

Breach and Burst AR's need buffs though

AR's seem overpowered because people who are good at FPS' (regnum zitro's proto me etc etc etc) are used to Assaults, how they work and how to use them efficiently while having the aim to back them up. It may seen like they're OP but wait until the game gets released and there is more talent, more skilled HMG's etc.

I agree that there are people who are skilled using them but it kicks like a paint ball gun and hits like a AK47. Skill or not that is not balanced.

No gun has recoil, not even HMG's no QQ about it.

I think the phrase is jack of all trades master of none. am I right?? lets see ars will beat out a LR and SR at range, an SMG in every thing but knife range. a heavy at any range.

yea not really a jack of all trades more of a win button. If the ar is not fixed by nexxt SP reset Im going AR just to prove my point. It will be fun not having to really work for my kills.

oh and for any one that wants to say I don't know what I am talking about my roommate built an AR alt hes become so overconfident with the AR that hes jumping in the stupidest situations and still coming out with >2-1k/d on average.

Guess I shouldn't complain to much I can still stomp most people one on one, and its made me a far better player. fear me next build FEAR ME!!

ARs have recoil....go full auto and you'll see they'll go straight up.

But forget that.....this is a futuristic game. Guns are made with plasma bullets or whatever the hell the description says. There shouldn't be any recoil on futuristic assault rifles

AR's seem overpowered because people who are good at FPS' (regnum zitro's proto me etc etc etc) are used to Assaults, how they work and how to use them efficiently while having the aim to back them up. It may seen like they're OP but wait until the game gets released and there is more talent, more skilled HMG's etc.

Wow!!!!!!, all this QQ about the AR..... what ppl are forgetting is the we as dusters go to diff schools (upgrading skills) using sp to do this. ITS NOT IN THE WEAPON ITS IN THE SKILLS. MY AR IS NOT LIKE HIS AR!!!!!!! If someone has his / her light wepon proficiency all the way to 5 and his sharpshooter all way to 5, and your um lol scrambler pistol with 1 lvl is pulled out who looses.

Apply this all around the board you guys are forgetting all about skills and some ppl are really good with the sticks, So good skill placement and great stick work = good player and your untimely death.

Damnit man, I say nerf this thread. ITS ALL ABOUT THE SKILL not like in other FPS where its in the GUN. learn how this game really works......

ILL REPEAT ITS IN THE FREAKIN SKILLS MAN.





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Wow man the most constructive post I've ever seen in ages you sir most respectfully represent the AR users and how good they are keep going , and focus on ARs and shield assault dropsuits you kittten tard.