DUST Search - AR's need a nerf.

Bhor Derri wrote:

Roy Ventus wrote:

I don't see why this is an important issue...

People in this thread have complained that the AR is a jack of all trades weapon. Which it is in real life. It can be good for CQC, LRQ, and suppressive fire, and more. The only thing it's not good at is AV.

Lol. To call it OP is really stupid. It's a jack of all trades and will continue to be such. The other weapons are specific and are good what they do. I want someone to tell me that a Tactical Rifle can match the strength, range, and speed of a good Sniper Rifle. I want someone to tell me that in CQC, a shotgun doesn't have a better chance than a Burst Rifle to demolish the enemies armor and shield. I want someone to tell me that a Heavy Machine Gun can't rip through someone faster than a Breach Rifle. Hell.

Seriously? The Assault Rifle will always be a jack of trade because it's a flexible weapon for flexible troops that commit to the frontline.

I easily can take out people with my basic sniper rifle...

And sometimes I EVEN prefer to use my handgun to deal with a threat rather than my AR.

Oh please I can feel the fear all the way from here you are all QQ about the only gun you could get kills with nerfed
This is important it makes other guns useless same with missile launchers.

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Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 172	Posted - 2012.11.02 03:59:00 - [151] - Quote Bhor Derri wrote: Roy Ventus wrote: I don't see why this is an important issue... People in this thread have complained that the AR is a jack of all trades weapon. Which it is in real life. It can be good for CQC, LRQ, and suppressive fire, and more. The only thing it's not good at is AV. Lol. To call it OP is really stupid. It's a jack of all trades and will continue to be such. The other weapons are specific and are good what they do. I want someone to tell me that a Tactical Rifle can match the strength, range, and speed of a good Sniper Rifle. I want someone to tell me that in CQC, a shotgun doesn't have a better chance than a Burst Rifle to demolish the enemies armor and shield. I want someone to tell me that a Heavy Machine Gun can't rip through someone faster than a Breach Rifle. Hell. Seriously? The Assault Rifle will always be a jack of trade because it's a flexible weapon for flexible troops that commit to the frontline. I easily can take out people with my basic sniper rifle... And sometimes I EVEN prefer to use my handgun to deal with a threat rather than my AR. Oh please I can feel the fear all the way from here you are all QQ about the only gun you could get kills with nerfed This is important it makes other guns useless same with missile launchers. You're trolling eh? I much prefer my Scout Fitted with Sniper Rifle. It's much more fun to suppress enemies or simply to pick them off. Although I do use the Assault Frontline often...but that's only because of stupid random players not doing what's needed to win.
Necrodermis GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 460	Posted - 2012.11.02 04:05:00 - [152] - Quote i like how they nerfed the SMG. the incredibly short range with laughable damage that deteriorates as range increases is laughable. you have to get the jump on someone with a SMG or you will die to their AR in a heartbeat.
Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2046	Posted - 2012.11.02 04:08:00 - [153] - Quote Necrodermis wrote: i like how they nerfed the SMG. the incredibly short range with laughable damage that deteriorates as range increases is laughable. you have to get the jump on someone with a SMG or you will die to their AR in a heartbeat. Never underestimate the smg
Necrodermis GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 460	Posted - 2012.11.02 04:17:00 - [154] - Quote Sleepy Zan wrote: Never underestimate the smg they are effective weapons. at roughly 5 steps away. i killed plenty with the SMG but if a AR is going to shoot you from 30 meters you better start running because the SMG isn't going to save you. even if they are able to be damaged by the gun, the damage is very minimalistic as if another force is effecting it. i tried shooting with the pistol up at around 10 meters or so. the length of one of the stupid spires on manus peaks. i shot the sniper three times and didn't even take his shield down 1/10. they were able to be hit but the damage fall off is just really obnoxious.
Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2046	Posted - 2012.11.02 04:29:00 - [155] - Quote Necrodermis wrote: Sleepy Zan wrote: Never underestimate the smg they are effective weapons. at roughly 5 steps away. i killed plenty with the SMG but if a AR is going to shoot you from 30 meters you better start running because the SMG isn't going to save you. even if they are able to be damaged by the gun, the damage is very minimalistic as if another force is effecting it. i tried shooting with the pistol up at around 10 meters or so. the length of one of the stupid spires on manus peaks. i shot the sniper three times and didn't even take his shield down 1/10. they were able to be hit but the damage fall off is just really obnoxious. Yeah, the smg defiantly got an excessive range nerf. I haven't tried the breach yet but I do agree that they can use an increase to their effective range, but they are only side arms and don't cost as much isk or as much CPU and PG as light weapons. So it would be unreasonable to expect them to preform at the same level. The smg still has the advantage over the AR in cqc, and the pistol can still drop individuals quick and actually has considerable range if you skill up into it.
Necrodermis GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 460	Posted - 2012.11.02 04:39:00 - [156] - Quote Sleepy Zan wrote: Yeah, the smg defiantly got an excessive range nerf. I haven't tried the breach yet but I do agree that they can use an increase to their effective range, but they are only side arms and don't cost as much isk or as much CPU and PG as light weapons. So it would be unreasonable to expect them to preform at the same level. The smg still has the advantage over the AR in cqc, and the pistol can still drop individuals quick and actually has considerable range if you skill up into it. their range isn't bad. it's the effective range that is bad. you hit targets and you are doing a fraction of the damage. then again i could just be imagining it but i tested the pistol and noticed it much more when trying to hit dudes on top of buildings and what not. the AR seems to have a bit of a damage decrease at it's max range but i haven't tested it all that much. but if a guy is shooting me just at the tip of their max range i usually get away.
Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2046	Posted - 2012.11.02 04:53:00 - [157] - Quote Necrodermis wrote: their range isn't bad. it's the effective range that is bad. you hit targets and you are doing a fraction of the damage.then again i could just be imagining it but i tested the pistol and noticed it much more when trying to hit dudes on top of buildings and what not. the AR seems to have a bit of a damage decrease at it's max range but i haven't tested it all that much. but if a guy is shooting me just at the tip of their max range i usually get away. Well any weapon requires a different mindset to use. With pistols and smgs, needless to say, you have play a little smarter and find a way to close the gap. Sidearm proficiency works wonders with the scrambler pistol (not that big of a deal for the smg though) and might help you out alot to skill about three levels into it at least.
Salazar Skye-fire Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 85	Posted - 2012.11.02 11:18:00 - [158] - Quote i may of brought this up b4 but i think dropsuit health needs to return to pre e3 levels with current AR damage and see where that all balances out, THEN tweak them both to feel like they are in that perfect groove.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 886	Posted - 2012.11.02 13:52:00 - [159] - Quote When I first read this thread..I thought it was a joke. AR is OP? lmkao But 8 pages later....someone is taking this seriously.
xprotoman23 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1452	Posted - 2012.11.02 14:00:00 - [160] - Quote I'll say it again standard variant AR's need recoil and the Breach and Burst need Buffs.

KEQ Harbinger KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2	Posted - 2012.11.02 15:35:00 - [161] - Quote Sleepy Zan wrote: protoman won't be happy about this But seriously, instead of CCP nerfing ARs why don't you just get better Amen Sleepy! Dude the effective range sucks. Even with max skills, damage & RoF is OK / average 33hp on most. AR are always intended to be the work horse. Effective close / med range, but less damage than an HMG or less RoF than a SMG. If you gimp ARs all that will happen is snipers will rule and people will stop taking objectives... I would actually argue there needs to be more AR diversity with some more effective range. It sounds like the OP just needs a better suit.
Super Cargo Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 428	Posted - 2012.11.02 17:53:00 - [162] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: When I first read this thread..I thought it was a joke. AR is OP? lmkao But 8 pages later....someone is taking this seriously. IKR
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 285	Posted - 2012.11.02 18:43:00 - [163] - Quote This is the biggest joke of a topic ever.
Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2046	Posted - 2012.11.02 18:53:00 - [164] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: This is the biggest joke of a topic ever. lol, no sh*t
Bhor Derri Legion of Eden 95	Posted - 2012.11.04 10:13:00 - [165] - Quote Now we all know how much you fail at dust you want the ARs to do less damage than an HMG lol yeah make them deal 17 hp damage Snipers will dominate ? ok I see you hate on everything you can't kill with an AR
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.04 12:08:00 - [166] - Quote For my first couple of games after returning (I've been away from the beta for months... Orbital Strikes were newly added when I showed up), I had issues dying to people with ARs that were basically instakilling me every time I moved. Then I realised why. I was in a Scout suit and not taking advantage of my mobility. Also, at least one skill wipe has happened since I last played, so I was working on baseline stats for my Scout. Unsurprisingly, picking up Armour and Shield HP bonuses makes a difference as you skill up. Now, when I'm a Scout, I only stop moving when I know where the enemy is, and I know they can't reach me. And I only die when I'm in front of someone who outplays me, or when I'm distracted and flanked. When I'm not a Scout, I can tank a few hits before I have to worry - EVEN when I'm in a BPO/Starter fit - because Assaults aren't quite as frail as Scouts, and don't insta-drop when they take fire. As I skill up, I'll move back to Scouts, but for early stages, I've got most of my builds centred around the basic Assault Starter fits.
Vallud Eadesso Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 63	Posted - 2012.11.04 12:15:00 - [167] - Quote Fiasco Llana wrote: Sobriety Denied wrote: im guessing precision strike will be removed once the game goes live and it will be orbital strike only from eve players.. what exactly "takes skill" out of anything when playing video games? a guy pushes a button and jiggles a little stick anyway ulook at it, it's not that impressive.. skill is stuff like playing pool, tig welding, or flying a real space ship not internet ones. Well... Shooting a rifle that takes more precise aiming than a fully automatic death machine I'd say takes more skill. I'm sorry, I stopped reading the thread when I got to here and am about to go totally off topic. Did you just imply that sniping in this game takes skill? In ANY game outside of ArmA, sniping is little more than "Put dot on head. Press R1" Sniping does not, never has, and never will take any semblance of skill in ANY FPS like Dust. If you want to know how Sniping should be done, go play ArmA2. Sure you have with the popularity of DayZ already, but don't delude yourself. Sniping in a console FPS is archaic and needs to evolve to actually be a team orientated role. I also wouldn't say ARs need a nerf, honestly, they're a general all around weapons platform, they're SUPPOSED to fill all roles. Nerf em any more though and they'll become useless. The Strength of an AR is it's versatility and accuracy, and hey, in real life, that's exactly why they're used.
Pranekt Tyrvoth Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 177	Posted - 2012.11.04 12:18:00 - [168] - Quote ~_~ AR Fix = Add slight recoil, all problems solved. Thank you, next crisis please, I'll be here all week.
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming 2282	Posted - 2012.11.04 12:24:00 - [169] - Quote Sleepy Zan wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: This is the biggest joke of a topic ever. lol, no sh*t
TiMeSpLiT--TeR Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 326	Posted - 2012.11.04 13:30:00 - [170] - Quote I use BlindFire AR. It's not really the weapon. Some players are just using cheap ass militia gears.

undeadsoldier90 UnReaL. 113	Posted - 2012.11.04 20:13:00 - [171] - Quote AR's are not OP. Its that simple. What is an AR supposed to be? close to mid range weapon ( after skilling it can become long range) Armor Eater ( it eats armor that is its primary function) Now i can agree that the AR needs to have a side sway and a less tighter grouping at med to long range. However the AR is built to be THE anti infantry weapon, that is what it does and it does it good. I have used almost every weapon and i have to say that the AR is good but it cant stack up with a good sniper, or a properly built heavy. Remember kids it eats ARMOR!!!! your dropsuite has what? ARMOR!!!!! ask any skilled and long time dust player what they have on their dropsuite...... shields.
Sev Alcatraz Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 185	Posted - 2012.11.05 00:25:00 - [172] - Quote judging on the design of the AR's they use a long action with dampers in the stock which reduces recoil therefore that statement about no recoil is invalid. they have weapons today the AA-12 fully automatic 12 gauge shotgun, it has a very long action and dampers in the stock which reduces recoil to the point where a 6 year old could fire it with one hand.
Revelations 514 Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 38	Posted - 2012.11.05 18:20:00 - [173] - Quote Again I see people saying, well AR's are the intended workhorse blah blah. Honestly? Which weapon in this game is not meant for killing people? So the argument most of you seem to think is valid is, "AR's are supposed to be the best at killing things"; in a game that centers around killing things.... Do you see the flaw in your logic yet? Seriously, screw realism too. The shotgun spread in this game is soo drastic it is less accurate than any shotgun make of today, yet the AR is a needle when it comes to accuracy...wtf? Don't explain it with realism cause no one cares how "real" your space age shooter is. Seriously, give the AR some recoil. Enough is enough already. And for the love of god please quit saying what things are "intended" to be. Your preconceived notions and expectations don't do justice for yourself or the game. Don't assume anything is intended for anything. Today, I used a credit card to scrape my windshield. Not it's "intended purpose" but did the job and did it well. I guess I should've just called work and told them I gotta stay home cause I don't have a scraper. Point is you limit everyone and everything by pigeon holing them into what your opinion about what it's "intended for" means. Which is most likely drastically wrong anyways. Throw that **** out already. Bring the AR in line with every other weapon and quit using the justification that the AR is supposed to be the best at killing things, give it some damn recoil already.
Zahle Undt Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 19	Posted - 2012.11.05 19:14:00 - [174] - Quote I don't see how arguments that are basically "ARs should have more recoil because real ARs have recoil" is effecive as the ARs in Dust are: "It is a magazine-fed, short-to-mid range weapon offering fully automatic fire. Charged plasma munitions are pumped into a cyclotron that converts the plasma into a highly lethal bolt before it is expelled from the chamber. Upon impact with the target, the magnetic field surrounding the bolt collapses, venting superheated plasma onto the contact point." Now I'm no physicist or ballistics expert, but I do know enough about science to know that recoil is caused in a real gun by the fact that when the gun powder accelerant goes off energy is expelled forward (that's what make the bullet go) and backwards. Some of the backwards kinetic energy works the bolt action loading the next round, the rest creates recoil. The Dust AR being an energy weapon can or can't have recoil because frankly its sci-fi and CCP can do as it pleases.
fahrenheitM Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 212	Posted - 2012.11.05 21:09:00 - [175] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Ieukoplast wrote: - In the new build, the heavies are quite difficult to take out with an AR, using my GEK with 3% mod I sunk almost 2 1/2 clips into a heavy, who still didn't die, but I died from his teammates who heard me unloading clip after clip, giving away my position. No lag in this example either, and his heath was diminishing as my bullets hit. Huh, I drop heavies in half a clip or so of my militia AR on the starter assault suit. They're WICKED easy to get headshots on since they strafe about as fast as fat albert.... EDIT: Did you seriously just mention AR vs LAV.....did I actually just read that? Hey guys, why can't my Rifter kill your Moros? Why would you even bring that up? You seriously claim to drop heavies with half a clip of a starter suit AR? And keep a straight face?
Sandromin Hes Sand Mercenary Corps Inc. 204	Posted - 2012.11.05 21:19:00 - [176] - Quote anyone think of putting in side to side recoil? I'm pretty sure that would force people to start aiming while shooting. It also makes sense due to sideways gas vents. The lateral size of a body is smaller than the height; this would probably be effective in forcing people to actually use some of their ability to kill with an assault rifle.
Bhor Derri Legion of Eden 95	Posted - 2012.11.29 19:14:00 - [177] - Quote After the introduction of the scrambler rifle I think the ARs would need more balance I will be following this issue quite closely CCP its not about blaster rifles anymore so don't nerf them after 5m years ,when they don't need one. So blaster nerf and you get scrambler OPs
The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1060	Posted - 2012.11.29 21:15:00 - [178] - Quote i demand that all AR's do a base damage off 10HP and have the same range like the breach assault rifle.
Belzeebub Santana SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 409	Posted - 2012.11.29 21:28:00 - [179] - Quote I demand that they shoot rainbows and marshmallows!!!! OT: I would like to see more variety of ARs, different race variants and attachments of course!
callmeanimal75 SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 2	Posted - 2012.11.29 22:17:00 - [180] - Quote Fiasco Llana wrote: Sobriety Denied wrote: im guessing precision strike will be removed once the game goes live and it will be orbital strike only from eve players.. what exactly "takes skill" out of anything when playing video games? a guy pushes a button and jiggles a little stick anyway ulook at it, it's not that impressive.. skill is stuff like playing pool, tig welding, or flying a real space ship not internet ones. Well... Shooting a rifle that takes more precise aiming than a fully automatic death machine I'd say takes more skill. spoken like a little boy with no life experience.



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