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medomai grey WarRavens Capital Punishment. 1088	Posted - 2014.11.18 04:39:00 - [121] - Quote E-war does need changes and I am glad that it's being looked over. But I would prefer if "player action" influenced E-war instead of another static, best number wins system. What do I mean by "player action"? An example would be a player running or firing a weapon would experience a increase in profile while a player who is still or crouching would experience a lower profile. Having E-war influenced by "player action" will create better "waves of opportunity" than using another set of static mechanics that will have outcomes determined in fitting menus. How to balance cloaks.
Vell0cet Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2567	Posted - 2014.11.18 04:39:00 - [122] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: I realize that it's not possible to have a gradual precision curve and that precision radii have to occur in hard-defined bands. I assume this is largely for performance reasons. I do wonder if it would be possible to introduce an element of randomness in the current proposal. Calls to rand() are pretty efficient and it might make things more interesting. So these values of your proposal would effect the chance of success/failure. I know it's tacky to self-quote but I just wanted to expand on this a bit. This is just an example, the numbers are up for debate. Let's say for example that as your precision approaches their dampening your chances of seeing them get better. Here's a rough idea of how it might work Precision is +1 greater than damps you have a 30% chance to detect them each "roll" Precision is +2 greater than damps you have a 22% chance to detect them for each "roll" Precision is +3 greater than damps you have a 17% chance to detect them for each "roll" Precision is +4 greater than damps you have a 13% chance to detect them for each "roll" Precision is +5 greater than damps you have a 10% chance to detect them for each "roll" Precision is +6 greater than damps you have a 7% chance to detect them for each "roll" Precision is +7 greater than damps you have a 5% chance to detect them for each "roll" Precision is +8 greater than damps you have a 3% chance to detect them for each "roll" Precision is +9 greater than damps you have a 2% chance to detect them for each "roll" Precision is +10 greater than damps you have a 1% chance to detect them for each "roll" Precision is +11 or more, you cannot detect them. If Precision == damps it's 50/50 Precision is -1 less than damps you have a 70% chance to detect them on each "roll" Precision is -2 less than damps you have a 78% chance to detect them on each "roll" Precision is -3 less than damps you have a 83% chance to detect them on each "roll" Precision is -4 less than damps you have a 87% chance to detect them on each "roll" Precision is -5 less than damps you have a 90% chance to detect them on each "roll" Precision is -6 less than damps you have a 93% chance to detect them on each "roll" Precision is -7 less than damps you have a 95% chance to detect them on each "roll" Precision is -8 less than damps you have a 97% chance to detect them on each "roll" Precision is -9 less than damps you have a 98% chance to detect them on each "roll" Precision is -10 less than damps you have a 99% chance to detect them on each "roll" Precision is -11 or less, you always detect them. Best PvE idea ever!
WeapondigitX V7 The Exemplars Top Men. 174	Posted - 2014.11.18 04:47:00 - [123] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: They will have less EHP, but have first shot advantage in a default scenario. I'd expect the opposite, as MedFrames have a good 'bit more base HP and better slot count than Scouts. So, what would prevent high HP units from running high-intensity, shared passive scans? If high-intensity, shared passive scans have to exists, wouldn't it be best to restrict them to easy-to-squish units? I was comparing logi to assault combat. Scouts would still just damp up and own mediums from behind like they already do. What prevents high ehp units from running high intensity, shared passive scans? TL;DR opportunity cost on the slots. Well...for one assaults and logi's rarely opt for more than 800 ehp. A high e-war suit is probably gonna knock that down to...about 500-600? a scout fully damped can get around 500-600ehp. so currently you can retain 70% of ehp for the meta in scanning...dampening..and precision? this contradicts the assertion that scouts need to be squishy to run the gambit on all three levels of e-war. this is working very poorly for balance indeed. Scouts need to retain the meta on dampening, but surrender the meta on precision and either share the meta, or surrender it on scan range. I have already expressed my thoughts on passive scanning...I think they need to find a way to turn it off. But if there's going to be a meta of passive scanning...it should be assaults or logi's. For PC, I run an AM Scout with 2 Precision Enhancers and 2 Range Extenders. For my last two lows, I choose between Damps or HP. I could run recon using another Scout, say Gallente or Caldari, but then I couldn't claim to have "competitive" scan precision so FC would probably pass me up, min / max and all. All that to say, I can't think of a single, competitive recon scout who can simultaneously run tank, precision and damps . Would it be too much to ask for you to cook one up for me? I ask because you say ... so currently you can retain 70% of ehp for the meta in scanning...dampening..and precision? ... and I'd like to learn precisely what you mean by this. Edit: While we're on the subject of AM Scout ... this is a unit who was once without a role, but (thanks to Rattati) now it has one. What happens to the AM Scout if Precision gets yanked from Scouts? I would also like to know what happens to the amarr scout because I run amarr everything. I need 3 proto damps and 2 precision to be damped well and have short range defensive scanning at a competitive level, with 1 proto rep and adv cloak so my fit is sustainable. My passive scan range is 30m so I cant support my squad with good scans at good ranges. Thus I don't think I can retain 500 hp while having competitive precision, dampening, and range. I just don't have the mod slot count or the PG/CPU to do that.
WeapondigitX V7 The Exemplars Top Men. 175	Posted - 2014.11.18 04:58:00 - [124] - Quote Edited a post on page six with some updated calculations about my proposed EQ scanner changes and updated assault calculations by changing assault precision from 50 to 45dB with max lvl 5 skills. These proposed changes make gal logis with focused scanners able to scan anything but at reduced ranges while having the current precision at longer ranges. It allows people to call for help by showing close enemies to the whole allied team etc.
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3145	Posted - 2014.11.18 05:55:00 - [125] - Quote I think we all agree that scouts cant be best at every eWAR aspect in the game, while at the same time being the fastest suits with smallest hitboxes. Something gotta give. Question for other scouts: What is the eWAR stat you want scouts to excel at? Dampening? Scan range? Dampening makes most sense, so lets assume that scout = dampening experts. Who is then a range expert, which class is a precision expert, etc? EVE: Legion, also known as: Schroedinger's Game, EVE: Limbo, or just "Not-a-game-yet".
Ace Boone Capital Acquisitions LLC 385	Posted - 2014.11.18 06:19:00 - [126] - Quote As soon as scouts get nerfed into the ground because of the community whining, I'm out. So sick of classes like ADS or scout getting hit with the nerf hammer. We've been nerfed over, and over again. The huge delay between cloaking and firing, the terribad nerf to precision while cloaked, cal precision nerf, the big delay between throwing remotes and detonating them. Easy mode is pretty much gone, it actually takes a fair amount of skill to run a scout. I still get shredded by HMGs, scrambler rifles, assault rifles and pretty much every projectile weapon, and plasma cannons.. If we have good eWar, we're probably under 400 eHP. and if I'm getting scanned. All of the OP scouts, the ones dropping 40 bombs every pub, are probably running no more than 400 eHP. I ******* hate this community. Only loyal to the republic.
Vell0cet Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2569	Posted - 2014.11.18 06:50:00 - [127] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: I think we all agree that scouts cant be best at every eWAR aspect in the game, while at the same time being the fastest suits with smallest hitboxes. Something gotta give. Question for other scouts: What is the eWAR stat you want scouts to excel at? Dampening? Scan range? Dampening makes most sense, so lets assume that scout = dampening experts. Who is then a range expert, which class is a precision expert, etc? Rattati: Is it possible to make the "scan bands" have a stronger precision further out than close by? This would be really cool on commando suits. Be able to do long range scans, but not see enemies up close. We certainly don't all agree with that. I think buffing assault's Ewar enough so running a couple modules is worth the EHP sacrifice is a good place to start, as is this proposal by CCP Rattati. Sorry but scouts should be Ewar kings, there just needs to be a class that's an Ewar queen to keep them in check. Best PvE idea ever!
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 8501	Posted - 2014.11.18 08:15:00 - [128] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: the base stats should reflect some racial preference buff the racial suits base stats by 5 units according to their respective ewar. that would open up things alot better than scouts only for ewar. the point is that each role racial suit should be able to get some functional benefit from using single ewar module. all amarr suits should have better precision all gallente suits should have better profile all caldari suits should have better range EDIT: each races suits are styled differently, some are better armor tankers, some are better shield tankers. why would they not also have a preference with how they handle ewar? Rattati, please do this. Make Ewar based more on Race and Role and not solely just All Assaults universally have this eWar ability. It's alreay immersion breaking when all Factions color code their suits the same way. eWar doesn't need to follow this trait. Plus, eWar depending on Race and Role provides a lot more diversity to this game and as a True Gallente it's inherit that I think:Diversity = Good CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
Varoth Drac Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 364	Posted - 2014.11.18 08:52:00 - [129] - Quote What about a compromise. Instead of giving scouts the best of all three EWAR elements, or just one, how about they have the best of 2. I would propose dampening and range. Buff assault range to 15 and profile to 45. Buff logi precision to 40ish. Nerf scout precision to 45ish. Logis can fit scan mods to scan scouts who don't damp much, little effect on assaults who generally attack logis from range. With scout precision nerfed and assault profile buffed assaults can fit damps to avoid scout scans. They can also fit scan mods to scan medium and heavy suits. Scouts are encouraged to fit precision to counter damped mediums rather than scouts. Countering scouts is about logis, not more scouts. Even without profile bonuses (that I suggested removing earlier) scouts could still avoid passive scans with 2 damps. Swap gal bonus for cloak regen, Cal bonus for cloak duration. Keep the prec and range bonuses. Whilst I'm at it. Gal logi precision bonus needs to go (replace with cooldown or angle buff). Otherwise it's too hard for mediums to avoid active scans. Focused scanners should be buffed to 15db. Add an advanced focused scanner. EWAR = sorted.
xAckie Ghost. Mob 462	Posted - 2014.11.18 09:36:00 - [130] - Quote On a phone so haven't read all posts. Does the new coding allow you/ ccp to make the suits / profile more dynamic? I think uf you are 5/7m from any player/ suit you should be seen even if your behind them. Just on the basis of the electrical gear you are carrying. Though if you were a scout with just knives maybe not. Basically can a profile be attached to equipment/ weapons H/l slots etc that increase your profile? So if you run bare bones you don't get picked up but adding equipment etc increases your profile? And if you shoot your weapon you should be lit up for 5 seconds.

Kuruld Sengar Y.A.M.A.H 44	Posted - 2014.11.18 11:40:00 - [131] - Quote As this is in the features and discussion section I assume it's intended as a sort of think tank thread? If so I have a couple ideas. If it is more intended towards tweaking the numbers in that spreadsheet, without the possibility of additional/alternate features, I'll leave it to you unless I can figure out how to make a dynamic spreadsheet with excel... If it is possible to add or tweak the features themselves such as number of range zones, skill/module rebalances, or even bring new ideas to your attention, then I have a bit more to say :P May I have some clarification which of the two it is? Or if the intent is something else entirely? Thank you for your time.
Indy Strizer Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 181	Posted - 2014.11.18 12:30:00 - [132] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: This is all, we believe, for the greater good of DUST 514. The CPM has called for it, the Community has called for it and CCP has wanted it for a long time. I honestly don't have much to add to this topic, e-war flies over my head for the most part, but I've thought about similar concepts on a very vague level that I never bothered developing- I assumed it was impossible and would never happen. I'm pretty happy about the direction of these changes, but even more happy that I was wrong and you're taking on the challenge. Thank you for listening to the players and lots of kudos to Haerr.
Haerr Dead Man's Game RUST415 1929	Posted - 2014.11.18 12:41:00 - [133] - Quote * Added Squad and Team sharing Active Scanners to the spreadsheet. Can Active scanners do 3 scans instead of 1? Just like the new passive scans? Oh and is it possible to move Range Amplifiers to high slots? It would neatly counterbalance being able to have both precise and long distance passive scans at the same time. I think that an Assault suit with 3cPDs should be able to avoid all passive scans @ medium range that a Max Precision Scout can throw at them. I also think that allowing an Assault suit with 3cPDs to avoid a Gallente Logistics Prototype Active Scanner @ Medium range is a good idea, what do you think?
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 343	Posted - 2014.11.18 13:00:00 - [134] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: I think we all agree that scouts cant be best at every eWAR aspect in the game, while at the same time being the fastest suits with smallest hitboxes. That's a fantastic mischaracterization. We don't all agree. Being the best at EWAR is no more sound basis for a nerf than Heavies being the best at stacking HP, Logis being the best at dropping EQ and Assaults being the best at frontline slaying. What does a Scout contribute to squad if not his passive scans?
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7257	Posted - 2014.11.18 14:46:00 - [135] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: I think we all agree that scouts cant be best at every eWAR aspect in the game, while at the same time being the fastest suits with smallest hitboxes. That's a fantastic mischaracterization. We don't all agree. Being the best at EWAR is no more sound basis for a nerf than Heavies being the best at stacking HP, Logis being the best at dropping EQ and Assaults being the best at frontline slaying. What does a Scout contribute to squad if not his passive scans? Spleen removing CQC accompanied by insanely low profile and cloaks, two equipment slots providing 'Logi-Lite' gameplay, able to stack as much EHP as some Assault's while still maintaining a faster speed. I feel like Iron Man talking to Thor right now. We're cool with Scouts being the best at -SOME- EWAR but being the best at all of it - let alone all of it at once - is just stupid. It's treading on too many toes of other roles and it's created a particular viability decrease in a lot of those roles. Knowing in the back of my mind how -useless- the Focused Scanner is and the fact that I can't even scan down any scout that decides to fit his suit a certain way..? Pointless. Might as well just run Amarr Scout. Long-Term Roadmap This Player is Against Proto BPOs
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 344	Posted - 2014.11.18 15:02:00 - [136] - Quote No Scout can "be the best" in every EWAR capacity at once. But let's assume one could. He'll have 250HP and will die instantly when's spotted. He will favor hiding to fighting. When he hides using cloak, he will be blind. He will contribute scans to his squad, but will earn no WP. He will place at the bottom of every leaderboard every match. How can we compare this to a Logi?
iWanderer PT-BR 10	Posted - 2014.11.18 16:42:00 - [137] - Quote Haerr wrote: * Added Squad and Team sharing Active Scanners to the spreadsheet. Can Active scanners do 3 scans instead of 1? Just like the new passive scans? Oh and is it possible to move Range Amplifiers to high slots? It would neatly counterbalance being able to have both precise and long distance passive scans at the same time. I think that an Assault suit with 3cPDs should be able to avoid all passive scans @ medium range that a Max Precision Scout can throw at them. I also think that allowing an Assault suit with 3cPDs to avoid a Gallente Logistics Prototype Active Scanner @ Medium range is a good idea, what do you think? Been messing around with your sheet and I think I almost got my proposal readable. Can only post later at night. But I can share a few outcomes: Example: A Gal scout with 1 damp can evade a Gal scout with no damp at medium range. This fixes the kind of things in your sheet where a sentinel would need to have 4 complex precision to see a Gal Scout at medium range. Basically I raised the dampening requirements on scouts to become closer to assaults. I also expanded the precision range because it was getting tight to fit all in between the previous values of 12db to 60, and now use 12 to 66, plus a few other tweaks. Another exemple: Amarr/Min Scout need 1 enhanced damp to evade a assault with 2 complex precision. Post it later.
Haerr Dead Man's Game RUST415 1945	Posted - 2014.11.18 17:21:00 - [138] - Quote One way of encouraging Scouts to use a cloak is to have inactive cloaks give a passive bonus to dampening and larger bonus to dampening when active. Figured I'd just throw it out there. Edit: So instead of attaching the dampener bonus to one scout or another it is given to any scout who fits a cloak.
iWanderer PT-BR 11	Posted - 2014.11.18 17:43:00 - [139] - Quote Haerr wrote: One way of encouraging Scouts to use a cloak is to have inactive cloaks give a passive bonus to dampening and larger bonus to dampening when active. Figured I'd just throw it out there. Edit: So instead of attaching the dampener bonus to one scout or another it is given to any scout who fits a cloak. I disagree! The cloak just by itself it a great visual trick mastery reserved only for suits who have the requirements. There are suits in your own sheet that don-¦t have a equipment slot but you still calculated a cloak scenario that is impossible. Cloaks just by themselves are great things and I don-¦t think they need added bonus except maybe one, fitting reduction for all suits or dampening for all suits. Even today I still notice you can release a shot while the cloak animation is running, and I think under the 1 second mark. If really cloaked or not I dont know.
KenKaniff69 2502	Posted - 2014.11.18 17:59:00 - [140] - Quote Where is Haerr's spreadsheet? ?

iWanderer PT-BR 11	Posted - 2014.11.18 18:02:00 - [141] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2464720#post2464720 Awsome work!
Lloyd Orfay SHAKING BABIES FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE 221	Posted - 2014.11.18 18:12:00 - [142] - Quote I had an idea for this EWAR falloff system. It's about weaponry. The idea is to give weaponry a percent-based multiplier based on their damage stat. This multiplier will incease the user's scanner profile the closer they get to the normal and strong ranges of the circle. Say there are high damaged long ranged weaponry. These weapons will have a high multiplier, which will increase the scanner profile of the user to a point where they are prompted to shoot opponents at longer ranges. So say there is a person that gets many kills from CQCing a scrambler rifle. With this system, because of the scrambler rifle's damage their scanner profile will increase significantly enough for their next victim to be ready against the attack. Due to the increased profile, any other players near the victim will notice. The CQC scrambler player will be fought off and prompted to start using the rifle at longer ranges to engage enemies. This will also promote the use of dampening. Now, say there is someone with an assault combat rifle. Since the ACR has a low damage statistic, they will be less likely to be scanned from the multiplier's effect. More players may use certain weapons for this benefit, promoting the use of precision modules. Even with lower damage weaponry, the percentage multiplier still exists, putting risk to extreme CQC/surprise attack tactics. Very powerful advanced/prototype weaponry will be setback by this, as the multiplier will slightly increase in correlation to this depending on how major the damage increase is. This will also essentially effect scouts in a way so that they cannot apply their stealth to shotguns, or any high damage weaponry, thus lowering their killing potential. The system will alongside work for vehicles, where vehicles with speciic turrets that are high damage can't hide, and those with lower damage turrets can. AV are included in this, by making them unable to hide against a vehicle driver/pilot. This will prevent vehicles from being heavily ambushed as they are now. Finally, placing certain equipment, like bombs, will increase the scanning profile by a great magnitude when a player brings them out, putting an end to players stealth bombing other players with RE's, and warning vehicle drivers further. Everyone is affected and put on a grounds to plan more tactically as a result.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 13285	Posted - 2014.11.18 18:40:00 - [143] - Quote General Goal in this idea: When I thought of the falloff idea, it was meant for detecting tanks and heavies at longer distances that the pitiful 15m my Assault gets, because it makes sense that such large units will be detected at longer distances than an Assault or Scout suit. You fixed the tank problem, but Sentinels will still be practically invisible to Assaults, no matter how many precision enhancers you put on. I also want suits with a lot of precision enhancers and a lot of dampeners to be rewarded, but not so rewarded that other modules become obsolete. I also want so that at very short distances, scanning becomes VERY strong. At shotgun range, a scout runs the risk of meeting a logistics suit with a lot of precision mods on, meaning they will be detected. Overall, I want to create a more dynamic battlefield with a much larger fitting diversity. Design Choices: I gave Logis and Scouts the same stats in terms of scan range and precision. In a rock paper scissors game, I don't believe making scouts the counter to scouts is the best idea, hence giving them both the best profile and the best scanning is a ludicrous idea. In my suggestion they will still have one of the best (instead of THE best) scanning, while staying the stealthiest units on the field. I have also increased the base ranges on all the suits. The reason being that in order to have ANY use out of precision enhancers, you need to put on range amps, unless you're a scout. This means that unless you're a scout, you're much less likely to fit precision enhancers. I want a proper EWAR counterplay, and so fitting enhancers should be viable. Range amps + Precision enhancers should be costly but powerful, but not so powerful as to shun people away from dampeners. (That's where falloff comes in) In addition, I reduced the range bonus you get from the skill, and increased base range to compensate. A design choice for new players. It will still be a highly valuable skill, 25% extra range (instead of 50%) is quite a bit. Lastly, I nerfed range amps from 45% to 30%. Due to the nature of percentages, with the increased base ranges, range amps got out of control out at 45%. They were originally balanced for much smaller base ranges, and so I decided that it's a good idea to tone them down a bit. They will still be powerful, just not powerful enough to push ranges to ludicrous numbers. Changes done: Precision modifiers changed to: 60%/100%/130% Range modifiers changed to 20%/100%/125% Assault Suit base scan range upped to 24m Commando Suit base scan range upped to 24m Scout suit base scan range upped to 30m Scout suit base precision upped to 45dB Logistics suit base scan range upped to 30m Assault suit base profile changed to 45dB Commando suit base profile changed to 50dB Sentinel base scan range upped to 18m Range Amps have been nerfed from 45% to 30% *Notes:* -An Assault with one precision enhancer will detect an unmodded Heavy at long range -An Assault with 2 enhancers will detect a heavy with one dampener at long range -An Assault with 3 enhancers will not detect a heavy with 2 dampeners at long range -A Sentinel with 1 enhancer will detect an unmodded Assault at Medium Range -A Sentinel with 2 enhancers will not detect an Assault with a profile dampener at Medium range This is just a general idea of the kind of counter play you will be able to expect. I will not list everything (Though I might make a spreadsheet), as I think the above few points will allow you to get the idea. Here is a spreadsheet with the modified numbers: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DrCb0IiA3G3MjjnObKURzEQBl46sfzbtIOKN_4iJWdM/edit?usp=sharing Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
The Telling Truth Second Stage Turbine Blade 0	Posted - 2014.11.18 19:49:00 - [144] - Quote Unless this proposal shakes up scout from always having the best starting point in precision vs mediums and allows a context for mediums to damp up from scouts this will do nothing to change the current meta of scouts beating every suit I own except my heavy suit and only that has a chance when i'm in a group of people watching my back. e-war with a few changes {scouts needing less damps to get under focused and fixing the 360 scans} was a much better system pre 1.8.
iWanderer PT-BR 11	Posted - 2014.11.18 20:48:00 - [145] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: General Goal in this idea: Changes done: Precision modifiers changed to: 60%/100%/130% Range modifiers changed to 30%/100%/125% Assault Suit base scan range upped to 24m Commando Suit base scan range upped to 24m Scout suit base scan range upped to 30m Scout suit base precision upped to 45dB Logistics suit base scan range upped to 30m Assault suit base profile changed to 45dB Commando suit base profile changed to 50dB Sentinel base scan range upped to 18m Range Amps have been nerfed from 45% to 30% I tried to fit your values in Haerrs sheet and got negative values. Not quite sure what whent wrong but maybe you final objective can be seen in my proposal. I use Haerrs sheet because it enables do relative diferente suits. Again I think in a way its getting to the same objective with diferent values.
iWanderer PT-BR 11	Posted - 2014.11.18 20:58:00 - [146] - Quote Ok. Here a new revised Haerr sheet to try and balace every suit in the game. Again, it s a try. There are some tweaks to be done, example problem with Gallogi. I don-¦t have much time myself but if you spend some time on it I think you can get a general picture. Notes: - I balanced it based only on medium range and no cloak. - Problems with Gallogi - Haven-¦t decided on Commando and Sentinel - Didn-¦t pay much attention to the cloak effect because, in my opinion the dampening effect should be scrubbed because it should not be scout exclusive since we are changing things. Have fun and please comment constructivly... link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByLpG42z7QGHVEFIUjh0akg2UXM/view?usp=sharing
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 5951	Posted - 2014.11.18 21:11:00 - [147] - Quote Haerr wrote: One way of encouraging Scouts to use a cloak is to have inactive cloaks give a passive bonus to dampening and larger bonus to dampening when active. Figured I'd just throw it out there. Edit: So instead of attaching the dampener bonus to one scout or another it is given to any scout who fits a cloak. At this point I would prefer the opposite and get rid of the cloak profile reduction so I am not forced to even use them. I find them to be more of a liability now. Especially considering I get the damn cloak delay even when switching from an inactive cloak. The Telling Truth wrote: Unless this proposal shakes up scout from always having the best starting point in precision vs mediums and allows a context for mediums to damp up from scouts this will do nothing to change the current meta of scouts beating every suit I own except my heavy suit and only that has a chance when i'm in a group of people watching my back. e-war with a few changes {scouts needing less damps to get under focused and fixing the 360 scans} was a much better system pre 1.8. The current mechanics already have some area for Mediums to dampen. If they have 1 Complex Dampener equipped, they can beat Minmatar and Caldari scouts with no precision enhancers, and with 2 Complex Dampeners can beat both Amarr and Gallente scouts with no precision enhancers. Assuming all scouts have 1 Complex PE, Medium frames can beat Minmatar and Caldari scouts scans with 2 Complex Dampeners. They need 3 CDs to beat Gallente's 1 PE (though if tied scans/damps went to the dampened instead of the precision they would only need two). To beat Amarr with 1 Complex PE, they would need 4 Complex Damps. It is ONLY when you get to scouts with 2 Complex PEs that you begin to have a problem, as at that point Medium Frames can't beat Amarr scans, BUT you have to consider that Amarr are sacrificing all their High Slots to get this advantage AND that this is their role! Caldari and Minamatar with 2 Complex Precision Enhancers can STILL be beaten with 3 Complex Dampeners. Gallente scans can STILL be beaten, but you have to sacrifice 5 slots for Complex Dampeners to do so, there again Gallente are sacrificing ALL THEIR HIGH SLOTS, and you can STILL beat their scans!! It is ONLY when Caldari and Minmatar sacrifice ALL their High Slots that you cannot beat their scans! Even then, if tied precision/dampening went to the dampener instead of the scanner you could beat them! TL;DR wrote: There is plenty of room for Medium Frames in the EWAR picture as it currently stands. Simply changing the mechanics such that scanner/dampener ties favored the dampener and not the scanner would go a long way towards increasing the flexibility for EWAR under the current system. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 13298	Posted - 2014.11.18 21:33:00 - [148] - Quote Question to Rattati: Will adding more rings reduce performance or something? I think a bit of fine tuning with say, 5 rings, would be great. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 19170	Posted - 2014.11.18 21:38:00 - [149] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: The current mechanics already have some area for Mediums to dampen. If they have 1 Complex Dampener equipped, they can beat Minmatar and Caldari scouts with no precision enhancers, and with 2 Complex Dampeners can beat both Amarr and Gallente scouts with no precision enhancers. Assuming all scouts have 1 Complex PE, Medium frames can beat Minmatar and Caldari scouts scans with 2 Complex Dampeners. They need 3 CDs to beat Gallente's 1 PE (though if tied scans/damps went to the dampened instead of the precision they would only need two). To beat Amarr with 1 Complex PE, they would need 4 Complex Damps. It is not even remotely reasonable to demand that someone spend 4 low slots on complex modules to counter the effect of a single bonused module. These are obscene module counts that you are suggesting to counter minor investments by scouts. 4 complex dampeners is utterly crippling to any medium frame - 1 precision enhancer is not. If an Amarr scout is required to throw on just one precision enhancer and then medframes are obligated to spend 4 modules to evade it, the medframes are not going to spend the modules to evade it. To suggest that they would is absurd. That Amarr scout can then comfortably out-tank any medframe stupid enough to try evading scout scans, while maintaining huge EWAR advantages and all the other wonders that scout suits confer. Quote: It is ONLY when you get to scouts with 2 Complex PEs that you begin to have a problem, 'Begin' to have a problem? Quote: as at that point Medium Frames can't beat Amarr scans, BUT you have to consider that Amarr are sacrificing all their High Slots to get this advantage AND that this is their role! Caldari and Minamatar with 2 Complex Precision Enhancers can STILL be beaten with 3 Complex Dampeners. Gallente scans can STILL be beaten, but you have to sacrifice 5 slots for Complex Dampeners to do so, there again Gallente are sacrificing ALL THEIR HIGH SLOTS, and you can STILL beat their scans!! It is ONLY when Caldari and Minmatar sacrifice ALL their High Slots that you cannot beat their scans! Even then, if tied precision/dampening went to the dampener instead of the scanner you could beat them! Oh no, someone is sacrificing two high slots! That's 'ALL THEIR HIGH SLOTS' and you can still beat their scans... If you're mad enough to fit five low slot modules. How can you possibly claim that medframes can compete on the EWAR scene with such utterly mad numbers? Nobody is going to fit that many damps. Nobody. As a scout, you already complain about the crippling effects of being forced to fit two or more dampeners, but you think that fitting five isn't crippling? Quote: TL;DR wrote: There is plenty of room for Medium Frames in the EWAR picture as it currently stands. Simply changing the mechanics such that scanner/dampener ties favored the dampener and not the scanner would go a long way towards increasing the flexibility for EWAR under the current system. No. No, there isn't. Medframes are not even remotely close to competing in this environment. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Currently challenging CCP Rattati for the queef
XxVEXESxX 63	Posted - 2014.11.18 21:46:00 - [150] - Quote Lets get numbers on penalties for plates and shields then will say this is okay. Great job on the change. Looks promising once we get the meta down. PSN: XxVEXESxX Minmatar loyalist MK.0 A/C/L



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