I feel the Long Range, Low Precision Circle is unneeded. It should be re-purposed as a second Close Range, High Precision Circle for enhanced granularity.

Normal zone, warm zone, hot zone. Generally, the warm zone should be 1/2 to 1 suit class better Precision, the hot zone 1 to 2 suit classes better precision, assuming undampened, equal skill. The hot zone should be relatively small, final warning radius. The warm zone is where most of the nuanced e-war and fitting choices would come into play.

A 20m base for all suits, which is still 30m with Level 5 Range Amp. Scouts can be longer range, but to be honest I don't really see the need. With the fact Range Enhancers and Range Amplification now give 'effective' Precision Scouts will have a bigger advantage granting detection to their allies than they did before.

Can I get a TL;DR for this thread please? It's confusing the hell out of me. Are we going to have EWAR heavies now or something?

Assault suits should have a long rang/low precision outer ring to detect undampened Sentinels. (15 to 20m.)
Assault suits should have a mid-rang precision identical to what they have now. (10m to 15m)
Assaults suits should have a high precision in the near circle to detect undamponed Scouts that get too close. (~10 m)

I also think that the size of the dot on the radar should be proportional to the profile of the suit detected.

And did something incredibly stupid...

The Long Range, Low Precision Circle is how you avoid walking in front of HMG's.

Here is the final proposal.

It is heavily based off of the community feedback, but Cat Merc's combination of Planetary Conquest meta review and thoughtful spreadsheet was exceptional. Thanks everyone, especially those that posed "this should be scanned by this" were very good for those last "yeah, that makes really good sense" tweaks.

Final Numbers

Here are a few collected guidelines from the community and CCP:

Design Principles
Lvl 5 precision Assault should scan lvl 5 scouts in close
Assault should scan undampened sentinels in long
Close Range should be long enough and strong enough to matter
Max prior range should be the same, reducing Amplier module
Max prior range should be the same, reducing Amplifier skill
To allow counterplay - precision modules give an equal penalty to profile
Not changing Scout base numbers at all; this round
One dampener should get Mediums some benefit
One precision should get Mediums some benefit
One amplifier should get Mediums some benefit
Lvl 5 Short Medium Precision should scan Prototype Equipment
3X dampening on Sentinel should get good benefit
No Directional Arrow on Minimap
Adding properly calculated EWAR stats to fittings screen
Commando should have better sig profile (-5) than Sentinel, Sentinel has better precision (+5) - skirmisher vs point defense
Assault should have better sig profile (-5) than Logi, Same Precision, Logi has better range
Sentinels need one Precision to scan down PRO Remote Explosives
Scouts are now only unscannable in Medium and Long Range

Standard Scanner scans Standard Equipment
Advanced Scanner scans Advanced Equipment
Prototype Scanner scans Prototype Equipment

For later discussion
Scouts get redefined with efficacy, possibly other attributes
Active Scanners
Vehicle Scanners
Uplinks with different Scan Precision
Size of Dot or intensity is based on profile, combined with precision penalty
Action influenced profile
passive bonus to cloak, higher when active, helps make it useful after "decloak delay"
Cross bonuses/penalties (range and precision,etc)
Range Amps to High
Extenders and/or Plates add signature profile
Special Spy Uplinks
Changes to Gallogi/Cloak and Focused Scanners go hand in hand

Precision/Profile round to the nearest number with ties going to scanner iirc. This means a scout with two precision will scan an assault with two dampeners. Is this intended?

Well, the scout is naturally better at precision, so I don't see an issue with that at all. Why would the reverse make sense?

Here is the final proposal.

It is heavily based off of the community feedback, but Cat Merc's combination of Planetary Conquest meta review and thoughtful spreadsheet was exceptional. Thanks everyone, especially those that posed "this should be scanned by this" were very good for those last "yeah, that makes really good sense" tweaks.

Final Numbers

Here is the final proposal.

It is heavily based off of the community feedback, but Cat Merc's combination of Planetary Conquest meta review and thoughtful spreadsheet was exceptional. Thanks everyone, especially those that posed "this should be scanned by this" were very good for those last "yeah, that makes really good sense" tweaks.

Final Numbers

Here are a few collected guidelines from the community and CCP:

Design Principles
Lvl 5 precision Assault should scan lvl 5 scouts in close
Assault should scan undampened sentinels in long
Close Range should be long enough and strong enough to matter
Max prior range should be the same, reducing Amplier module
Max prior range should be the same, reducing Amplifier skill
To allow counterplay - precision modules give an equal penalty to profile
Not changing Scout base numbers at all; this round
One dampener should get Mediums some benefit
One precision should get Mediums some benefit
One amplifier should get Mediums some benefit
Lvl 5 Short Medium Precision should scan Prototype Equipment
3X dampening on Sentinel should get good benefit
No Directional Arrow on Minimap
Adding properly calculated EWAR stats to fittings screen
Commando should have better sig profile (-5) than Sentinel, Sentinel has better precision (+5) - skirmisher vs point defense
Assault should have better sig profile (-5) than Logi, Same Precision, Logi has better range
Sentinels need one Precision to scan down PRO Remote Explosives
Scouts are now only unscannable in Medium and Long Range

Standard Scanner scans Standard Equipment
Advanced Scanner scans Advanced Equipment
Prototype Scanner scans Prototype Equipment

For later discussion
Scouts get redefined with efficacy, possibly other attributes
Active Scanners
Vehicle Scanners
Uplinks with different Scan Precision
Size of Dot or intensity is based on profile, combined with precision penalty
Action influenced profile
passive bonus to cloak, higher when active, helps make it useful after "decloak delay"
Cross bonuses/penalties (range and precision,etc)
Range Amps to High
Extenders and/or Plates add signature profile
Special Spy Uplinks
Changes to Gallogi/Cloak and Focused Scanners go hand in hand

I agree 100%, we may not get this right in the first go, so let's prepare to be patient.

I would still prefer if Logis got the better precision while scouts got the better range.
Cuz, ya know, scouts, scouting, recon.

Scouts are now only unscannable in Medium and Long Range

To allow counterplay - precision modules give an equal penalty to profile

Let me stop you here.
This is by far the most destructive thing you could possible do to the Scout Role.
You're honestly making the Minmatar Scout unplayable in competitive levels.
This will completely invalidate a Nova Knife user. There is no way a suit with under 400HP is going to make it within the 34m radius a Caldari Scout has with 15 dB precision or the 14dB precision of an Amarr Scout at 34m.

Congrats. If you're goal was to remove the Minmtar Scout form play you did it.
Congrats. If you're goal was to recreate the Caldari Scout's role of sitting in a corner to provide Omniscient Scans again you've succeeded.

Did you not see any of the posts by dedicated Minmtar Scouts in how much they were affected by the change to the cloak? Because Nova Knives in the Sidearm Slot has increased in difficulty by magnitudes.

Though I suppose we can thank Zatara for pushing the concept of "Scouts need to dedicate 4 low slots to use stealth" into the field.

Yep. Bravo. I'm done.
Someone let me know if Scouts are ever allowed to play instead of being better suited to being AFK while the rest of the team fights it out.

Yep. Bravo. I'm done.

How many times have you 'been done' now? Oh well, see ya in a week or whatever Appia.

As many times as I have meowed.

Nyaa^n?

Someone let me know if Scouts are ever allowed to play instead of being better suited to being AFK while the rest of the team fights it out.

Let me stop you here.
This is by far the most destructive thing you could possible do to the Scout Role.
You're honestly making the Minmatar Scout unplayable in competitive levels.
This will completely invalidate a Nova Knife user. There is no way a suit with under 400HP is going to make it within the 34m radius a Caldari Scout has with 15 dB precision or the 14dB precision of an Amarr Scout at 34m.

Congrats. If you're goal was to remove the Minmtar Scout form play you did it.
Congrats. If you're goal was to recreate the Caldari Scout's role of sitting in a corner to provide Omniscient Scans again you've succeeded.

Did you not see any of the posts by dedicated Minmtar Scouts in how much they were affected by the change to the cloak? Because Nova Knives in the Sidearm Slot has increased in difficulty by magnitudes.

Though I suppose we can thank Zatara for pushing the concept of "Scouts need to dedicate 4 low slots to use stealth" into the field.

Yep. Bravo. I'm done.
Someone let me know if Scouts are ever allowed to play instead of being better suited to being AFK while the rest of the team fights it out.

This is where I have issue with the whole thing.
Scanning is still a far more powerful thing than dampening, since scanning not only reveals everyone around you, but also relays it to the squad, while dampening only hides a single unit.

Though I suppose we can thank Zatara for pushing the concept of "Scouts need to dedicate 4 low slots to use stealth" into the field.

Yep. Bravo. I'm done.
Someone let me know if Scouts are ever allowed to play instead of being better suited to being AFK while the rest of the team fights it out.

This is to make sure that the scanner is always visible. The hunter becomes the hunted. Take him down and blind the opponent.

This is to make sure that the scanner is always visible. The hunter becomes the hunted. Take him down and blind the opponent.