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iWanderer
PT-BR
14
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Posted - 2014.12.01 16:18:00 -
[301] - Quote
Jebus McKing wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Vitantur Nothus wrote:Two complex damps and a proto cloak:on should enable all Scouts to beat all passive scans and all active scans excluding GA Logi + Focused. Focused Scanner cool down and scan duration should be improved.
As far as passives are concerned, Scouts should hunt Scouts and MedFrames hunt MedFrames. All passive, at short range as well? If you don't move Range amps to highs, then yes. Otherwise, people will just slap on two range amps and laugh as you try to be sneaky within 20m of them. I'm kinda worried about moving range amps to high slots because of the CAL scout. With 2x amps it already has a range of 90m.  Any suggestions`?
In comes the mentioned penalty by CCP Rattati for using precision mods. The CalScout would have to sacrifice shield to equip more precision, then more damps to counter the penalty, then no armor slots to equip....but if protected by a squad, you-¦ve got a problem...Like I said before, jackstrap a Calscout to a Heavys back and let-¦em rip....
Personally, not fun, we-¦ve got scanners for that.... |
iWanderer
PT-BR
14
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Posted - 2014.12.01 16:24:00 -
[302] - Quote
Jebus McKing wrote:....
Any suggestions`?
EDIT: Precision penalty to range amps? or
Range penalty to precision mods?
By CCP Rattati
"To allow counterplay - precision modules give an equal penalty to profile..."
Not quite sure how this works out.. |
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
12519
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Posted - 2014.12.01 16:39:00 -
[303] - Quote
Amps decrease Precision
Precision reduces range
Both increase Profile
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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CeeJ Mantis
Mantodea MC
110
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Posted - 2014.12.01 16:40:00 -
[304] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Cat Merc wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
To allow counterplay - precision modules give an equal penalty to profile
This is where I have issue with the whole thing. Scanning is still a far more powerful thing than dampening, since scanning not only reveals everyone around you, but also relays it to the squad, while dampening only hides a single unit. This is to make sure that the scanner is always visible. The hunter becomes the hunted. Take him down and blind the opponent.
To be honest, as a gal scout, I don't think I will be playing those suits anymore. Which sucks because I really enjoyed doing that for the last 18 months. What's the point in trying to capitalize on one of my bonus is if it negates the idea of capitalizing on the other? Also, I don't really want to play a commando if all I can scan is sentinels. Not even lazy mediums anymore. I.only get one high slot. I had my fits nicely where I wanted them, and now literally every one needs significant adjustment. It's not worth starting over from 50 million SP, so I think I'm done for the foreseeable future. Once this update drops, I'm done with DUST 514. Thanks for the ride! o7
Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5183
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Posted - 2014.12.01 16:41:00 -
[305] - Quote
Wow... will be interested in seeing some numbers on these EWAR module adjustments. First impressions are that the drawbacks will be too high to justify the benefits.
My advice to you, playa...
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CeeJ Mantis
Mantodea MC
110
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Posted - 2014.12.01 16:49:00 -
[306] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Cass Caul wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Cass Caul wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
Scouts are now only unscannable in Medium and Long Range
Let me stop you here. This is by far the most destructive thing you could possible do to the Scout Role. You're honestly making the Minmatar Scout unplayable in competitive levels. This will completely invalidate a Nova Knife user. There is no way a suit with under 400HP is going to make it within the 34m radius a Caldari Scout has with 15 dB precision or the 14dB precision of an Amarr Scout at 34m. Congrats. If you're goal was to remove the Minmtar Scout form play you did it. Congrats. If you're goal was to recreate the Caldari Scout's role of sitting in a corner to provide Omniscient Scans again you've succeeded. Did you not see any of the posts by dedicated Minmtar Scouts in how much they were affected by the change to the cloak? Because Nova Knives in the Sidearm Slot has increased in difficulty by magnitudes. Though I suppose we can thank Zatara for pushing the concept of "Scouts need to dedicate 4 low slots to use stealth" into the field. Yep. Bravo. I'm done. Someone let me know if Scouts are ever allowed to play instead of being better suited to being AFK while the rest of the team fights it out. So, in short, Minmatar Scouts need some buff? With the "Shoot while cloaked" bug fix, nothing is stopping us from making the Cloak better and less tiered and Active, instead of the overly passive system. It says very clearly that "no changes" are being made to the Scouts attributes, and will be addressed with well thought out efficacy changes plus learnings from this first iteration. I'm saying that as long as Scouts don't have a ROLE bonus, instead of a Racial one, there will always be an imbalance in Scout distribution because the one that takes the fewest low slots, the slots that compete with modules such as kinetic catalyzers and codebreakers, that one will always be the best choice. Seeing as one of the four scouts only have 2 low slots, that means Profile Dampeners need a 10% per level efficacy bonus and an active cloak, something that shouldn't be a choice as to whether a player wants to use it. If you don't change base stats, like you just said, then the Caldari Scout can already get to the same level of precision as the Focused Active Scanner again. With those proposed numbers there are 3 different ways to get a suit to Gallente Logistics' Focused Scanner's Precision with a range of 33-43m. If you take awaay the Caldari Scout's affinity for scan range, you can reduce that to 2 but there's no way people won't min-max scanning. People abhor having to match skill vs skill when it comes to situational awareness, why should they have to look anywhere other than the corner of their screen to know where someone is?! If Dampeners were to reduce range like precision increases profile, instead of forcing the cloak down everyone's throat that wants to play the EWAR game. The game is still all about absolutes. How often, honestly, are people killed outside 40m? Can you get that number? Can you see each by game mode? If a Logistics suit can get Precision to a point where the majority of suits can't avoid it and get range matching or exceeding the average kill range then how is this any more fluid? Hyper-vigilant Precision. So what if Precision adds to Profile? Someone else is just going to run that high precision build to see everyone around them anyway.
@ little sammy: You're right. total misinformation. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2173587#post2173587On the precipice of alpha "The bonus's need to be 1 module difference, not 2, speaking of the cal and gal scout bonuses at the high end scanning." https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2176785#post2176785Gal Scout discussion thread, "This aside from making min scouts unscannable with 3 complex damps is the way to go. " https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2176876#post2176876"thus 3 damps by amarr and 3 damps (but perhaps a basic instead of the complex) by a gal are required to get under the min/maxing of a gal logi focused scanner. " https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2177170#post2177170All you've done since is say how it's unfair how Detection doesn't overcome dampening. Has something changed during your tenure on the CPM? No, it hasn't. Total misinformation. P.S. It takes like all of 5 minutes to search the entirety of a post you want to find. There's nothing special or time consuming about it.
I also love seeing al the "Focused Scanner has high fitting cost," in posts in this thread. For reference, dampening below it takes anywhere form 149 CPU and 18PG comprised of 2 low slots and an Equipment slot vs 1 EQ slot and only 29CPU and 14PG. Or for Min and Amarr it takes another 33 CPU and another low slot. Focused scanners have such a high fitting cost...  OK, just give us the actual numbers and tweaks necessary. You say, a few things 1) Cloak, can that be used to help the minmatar scout? 2) Should we reduce the Caldari and Amarr bonuses immediately and fix with efficacy later? 3) Should we add range penalties to dampening like you mention? 4) Do we reduce the amplifier module? 5) Do we reduce the amplifier skill? 6) Move Amplifiers to high? Let's get the ideas out there so we can make the necessary changes. I did not propose changes to the Scouts to, for the lack of a better word, honor their spe...
Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
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Zaria Min Deir
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
886
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Posted - 2014.12.01 16:50:00 -
[307] - Quote
Jebus McKing wrote:How about we give precision mods a penalty to range instead? This way you'd have to choose between good scans or good range without having to screw around with CAL/AM scout bonuses or having to make range amps high slot modules. (Damps could also give a penalty to precision, just saying...  ) Zaria Min Deir wrote:So, a scout shouldn't have to specialize in stealth to avoid a highly specialised scanning fit? You think it would be reasonable for any scout to only have to use 1 dampener to avoid any and all scans, even your proposed 'offender', the logi with 8 module slots dedicated to scanning? So, 5 Heavies can each stack 1500HP and still get the same scanning advantage as that one Logi in their squad, right? Sounds totally balanced to me. As long as passive scans are shared, dampening has to be WAY MORE effective than scans. And if we did not have shared passives, damps would still need to be better than precision mods because of the nature of the advantage they give.
I've wanted passive scans to be removed as well, but we are not getting that. And, sure, dampening should be more effective, but WAY MORE is the issue here. We might as well go '**** all changes to the ewar system' in that case and leave it as is. And those heavies can get just as much scanning advantage, if not more, from having a scout in their squad instead of a logi, except that scout will have more survivability (due to speed and dampening) than the logi does. Balanced? Maybe not, but that's what we have to live with.
Ghost Kaisar wrote:
When the HELL have I ever suggested this?
The ONLY case where this is acceptable is on the Cal scout, since they don't have the low slots to properly damp.
If you want to balance around "Well I'm using more slots", then all suits need the same number of slots.
Scouts only have 6, Logis have 9. They will beat scouts every time in eWAR UNLESS you change some bonuses around to compensate.
I don't want my scout to be some all seeing, all evading god.
I just want to dodge scans in my Minja without horrifically gimping my fit. Hell, I'm fine with running 2x damps 24/7, because thats what I ACTUALLY DO RIGHT NOW.
But 3x damps 24/7 is killer. I might as well run a Gal scout in that scenario, since he still has a low slot to play with. Hell, he can run a kincat and be faster than me as well. Why even run a minja?
Cal scouts need to run 1-2 damps
Minjas need 2-3
Gal/Amrr need 3-4
If you don't do something like this, Gal/Amarr will always be more viable than their counterparts, due to low slots available for dampening.
That is what it seemed like you were suggesting, that is why I asked you a clarifying question. I think it's not too much to ask for scouts to run at least 2 damps to avoid scans.
Interesting sidenote, running into issues with dealing with the scout RE/cloak shotgun spam, I have been told over and over again that I should just switch the suit I run to counter all the scouts, as my logi has little chance of doing so. Maybe if going against a team willing to sacrifice enough to have such strong scans that they actually require specialized dampenign to avoid covering all important areas, some scouts will have to go and run something else for a change, what can I say. That logi with all ewar modules will be squishy and slow, an easy kill.
And no, I didn't say to balance around a some magic number of slots used, I was just implying I found the edge case of 1 (ONE) dampener being enough to counter 8 (eight) ewar modules to be a bit unbalanced. But sure, I'll see your "let's give all suits the same number of slots" and raise you "let's give all suits the same base stats". Balance, yes?
Also, let me know where you find that min logi with 9 module slots, I'd love to upgrade mine.
But seriously, sure, a logi with all slots dedicated to detecting scouts might beat most scouts in ewar... but that logi will lose against a scout in pratically every aspect. A logi suit almost has worse base everything, less speed, less regen, worse base ewar, it will never be able to hide from proper scans itself. So it having a few more slots than the scout is in my opinion quite fine. Oh yes, health. The logi suit beats the scout in base HP. As the second squishiest suit in the game, they are so OP, might as well remove them from the game.
EDIT: Also, I do agree that these blanket changes obviously hit some scouts (the min, obviously) harder than others. And that there is definitely room for balancing the different racial scouts, not just the scout as one class.
Have you considered installing the improved keyboard?
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
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Vitantur Nothus
Nos Nothi
836
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Posted - 2014.12.01 16:55:00 -
[308] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Vitantur Nothus wrote:Two complex damps and a proto cloak:on should enable all Scouts to beat all passive scans and all active scans excluding GA Logi + Focused. Focused Scanner cool down and scan duration should be improved.
As far as passives are concerned, Scouts should hunt Scouts and MedFrames hunt MedFrames. All passive, at short range as well?
This comes down to what we mean by "short range".
It takes only a fraction of second for any unit to rotate 180 degrees. Once they're backpedaling away from you, you've lost all hope of ever getting them into knife range. I can't tell you how many times an observant mark has heard the sizzle of my knives charging from behind, rotated, backpedaled, and killed me all the while remaining just out-of-reach.
^ In the case of my double damped MinScout, a "short range" of 10m gives my mark (who I've singled out, flanked and stalked) an entire second of "warning, warning, warning" to turn around and begin to backpedal. Some may claim that one second isn't a long time, but one second it is often more than a MinScout's TTK.
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Zaria Min Deir
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
886
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Posted - 2014.12.01 16:55:00 -
[309] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Amps decrease Precision
Precision reduces range
Both increase Profile
Do damps decrease precision and range too?
Have you considered installing the improved keyboard?
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
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DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
VP Gaming Alliance
721
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 17:12:00 -
[310] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Amps decrease Precision
Precision reduces range
Both increase Profile
dafaq?
penalty is by how much? because amps and precision are pretty useless without each other. this seems counter productive.
there goes everyones plans for viable passive scans. back to HP stacking everyone. nothing to see here... false alarm. |
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DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
VP Gaming Alliance
721
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Posted - 2014.12.01 17:18:00 -
[311] - Quote
Vitantur Nothus wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Vitantur Nothus wrote:Two complex damps and a proto cloak:on should enable all Scouts to beat all passive scans and all active scans excluding GA Logi + Focused. Focused Scanner cool down and scan duration should be improved.
As far as passives are concerned, Scouts should hunt Scouts and MedFrames hunt MedFrames. All passive, at short range as well? This comes down to what we mean by "short range". It takes only a fraction of a second for any unit to rotate 180 degrees. Once they're backpedaling away from you, you've lost all hope of ever getting them into knife range. I can't tell you how many times an observant mark has heard the sizzle of my knives charging from a few meters behind, rotated, backpedaled, and killed me all the while remaining just out-of-reach. In the case of my double damped MinScout, a "short range" of 10m gives my mark (who I've singled out, flanked and stalked) well over a second of "warning, warning, warning" to turn around and begin to backpedal. To those who'd claim that one second isn't a long time, I'd point to my MinScout's TTK. So what is "short range"? Is it 0.5 seconds of "warning, warning, warning" or is it more? And, perhaps more importantly, is it shared with squad? Even after a mark is incapacitated? ^ If I recall correctly, this was among of the reasons why line-of-sight shared scans were disabled. A merc gets flanked and stabbed proper, but turns in time to see his assassin; the assassin's escape is now compromised, his position having been revealed to all nearby. Assassin does everything right. Dies anyway because of a bad mechanic. But maybe it'll be different now that we have cloak. Maybe.
just want to point out something i find funny....
nova knife range is 3m. Thats about 9 feet lol.
anybody here got an 8 to 9 foot arm length? i sure dont lol |
Espeon Bons
Bloodline Rebellion
Capital Punishment.
315
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Posted - 2014.12.01 17:28:00 -
[312] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Amps decrease Precision
Precision reduces range
Both increase Profile
Why would codependent skills negate each other? Thats like saying you can have ammo but you cant use a gun, but if you want a gun you cant have ammo. Profile reduction part sounds okay.
Redemption comes from changing who you are on the inside.
Stain yourself with evil to defeat a greater evil.
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Vitantur Nothus
Nos Nothi
838
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Posted - 2014.12.01 17:34:00 -
[313] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Amps decrease Precision
Precision reduces range
Both increase Profile
If the changes are implemented as presented in the spreadsheet, passive scanning will become the realm of the Logi. In my estimation, a Logi has little concern for hiding, as he can typically be found around the blob of Heavies. He also displaces the Recon Scout in PC, as he does the job nearly as well all the while generating massive WP from his actual role (reps, revives and EQ-based support).
All Scouts will run damps. As the GalScout dampens most efficiently, he'll quickly become the only Scout in PC.
TL;DR: These penalties affect the Recon Scout, which we've killed off and replaced with the Logi. |
IgniteableAura
Pro Hic Immortalis
1921
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Posted - 2014.12.01 17:43:00 -
[314] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Amps decrease Precision
Precision reduces range
Both increase Profile
I still feel rock paper scissors is a better balance as previously stated We don't want to have cake and eat it too 
IgniteableAura wrote:
- Precision mods increase profile
- Damp mods reduce range
- Range mods reduce precision
You could possibly make these mods effect active scanners as well. So when using them, if you have a range amp you get more range on your scanner)
@Above naysayers,
You want to create flexibilty on the battlefield. With any mechanic you don't want a "Best fit only" scenario. You either choose long range and low precision, high precision and low range, or low profile and low range.
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Biomassed Podcast
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Vitantur Nothus
Nos Nothi
839
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 17:48:00 -
[315] - Quote
@ Iggy
We've entered ZataraLand, and in ZataraLand Scouts only get to hide. Kindly restructure your thinking to account for the new Scout role. |
iWanderer
PT-BR
14
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Posted - 2014.12.01 17:51:00 -
[316] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Amps decrease Precision
Precision reduces range
Both increase Profile
So Caldari heavys and medium who have high slots and were not in a position to damp, (because it-¦s almost useless), now become precision masters at the cost of shields.
Gallente heavys and medium who have a few high slots, dont have that much to make a difference. But a heavy will never sacrifice their low slots for 3 dampeners or whatever to make a difference.
Amarr and Min are in between.
As to Scouts, Cal have good damps, but annuled by precision mods or range mods if equipped. GalScout will continue to damp. |
Jebus McKing
Jebus Hates Scans
1143
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Posted - 2014.12.01 18:27:00 -
[317] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Amps decrease Precision
Precision reduces range
Both increase Profile
Let's not go too far with that.
I think precision decreasing range is good enough. We can make it so that a range amp counters the penalty of a precision mod, but if we do both the modules will nullify eachother, which would be slightly weird, even I have to admit that.
High precision scans with a high range are easily countered by using dampeners. So I don't really see the necessity to penalize range amps as well.
I don't really think we have to mess with the profiles here. Range amps already use the same slots as dampeners so you'll have to choose between the two anyway. And I'm not sure if it would cause too much trouble if you combined low precision with low profile, but also with a terrible range.
You have been scanned
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3674
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Posted - 2014.12.01 18:31:00 -
[318] - Quote
Francois Sanchez wrote:The commando reduced sig profile is an excellent idea at the beginning, but as you're giving an extra precison to sentinel, it becomes useless. All the suits in the game (outside another commando ) will still be able to detect them. I also see the come back of the most catastrophic thing that has ever happened to this game, the Cal and Amarr scout can have an unavoidable scan of 30 meters for every suits but Gal and Amarr scouts. Btw, the gal scout will also have access to a crazy scan, that can be avoided by fully damped scout but it's still too good.
Indeed. I'm a little perplexed on why the Commando does not have near identical scanning attributes to the Assault, as it fills essentially the same role.
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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RedPencil
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
150
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Posted - 2014.12.01 18:33:00 -
[319] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Amps decrease Precision
Precision reduces range
Both increase Profile
"Amps decrease Precision" >>>>> you mean increase Precision right?
Lower Precision == Better scan
What about Damp penalty?
Damp increase Precision and reduce range right?
Beware Paper cut M[;..;]M
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Raffael-Puma Austria
Storm.Fighters
E.B.O.L.A.
1
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Posted - 2014.12.01 18:43:00 -
[320] - Quote
We need passive scan in all logistic suites, but when somebody put a shotgun or a cloakfield in the suite the suite have to be not usable!!!
And when we give the suite some precision exchanger, then the scan has to be so good that the havy can see a Pro scout with 4 dampeners! This is not OP, because the havys have not enought HP to fight against a scout.
And with a PRO Scanner should i can scan a PRO scout! Because a PRO scanner have to be PRO and not STD!!!
Fix this CCP!
I hate Update 1.9 and RailRifle fix! Only selfrepair is cool, but havy need more HP/s
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4915
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Posted - 2014.12.01 18:52:00 -
[321] - Quote
Vitantur Nothus wrote:@ Iggy
We've entered ZataraLand, and in ZataraLand Scouts only get to hide. Kindly restructure your thinking to account for the new Scout role. Recon is for the Logi. When you return to Dust from Destiny, mind the new meta; Heavy+Logi blobs are already pretty bad, and it looks like they'll be getting a few upgrades.
Lol crymoar. 
Founder & CEO Fatal Absolution
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Strive. No mattter what
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Vell0cet
Vengeance Unbound
2631
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Posted - 2014.12.01 18:59:00 -
[322] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Amps decrease Precision
Precision reduces range
Both increase Profile
Precision without range is pretty worthless (being able to see nearly everyone once they're already in CQC means you're already dead), range without precision is moderately helpful but not great. If detection Ewar mods cancel each other out, most will start running tank mods. I have concerns about how this will play out. Right now, I think most agree that the current problem is cloaky scouts having it too easy. The emphasis should be on improving the ability to detect them if you sacrifice slots to do so.
I've got a "scout hunter" Amarr scout fit with 2 precision mods and a range amp. It's weak-as-hell in most situations, but it's pretty good at killing cloaky scouts that aren't stacking tons of damps. I have to stay close to my squad mates to protect me from everything else. It seems this proposal would make it much harder for suits like this to counter cloaky scouts--I'd be better off running tank mods instead of Ewar. That seems counter to what we're looking to accomplish. The cloaker seems to have most of the advantages compared to the hunter.
Best PvE idea ever!
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
868
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Posted - 2014.12.01 19:00:00 -
[323] - Quote
My original stance was that Scouts should get less scanning to move closer to parity.
This proposal moves towards parity by giving everyone meaningful scanning abilities.
I assume you're intentionally trying to make scanning and being scanned a major part of Dust's gameplay - for all classes.
I'm going to wait-and-see. I've never played a shooter before where a permanent "wall-hack" was part of the gameplay.
... If passive scanning is a large part of Dust's gameplay, we may need to give it more attention UI wise. Proper eWar stats on the fitting screen is a start, but people aren't automatically going to understand why some people light up through walls while others don't. If new players don't discover the importance of eWar quickly they won't understand why they are struggling with the game.
My preferred option would still be a reduction in passive scanning overall. That's just much easier to understand for everybody. |
Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4915
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 19:03:00 -
[324] - Quote
Cass Caul wrote:@ little sammy: You're right. total misinformation. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2173587#post2173587On the precipice of alpha "The bonus's need to be 1 module difference, not 2, speaking of the cal and gal scout bonuses at the high end scanning." https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2176785#post2176785Gal Scout discussion thread, "This aside from making min scouts unscannable with 3 complex damps is the way to go. " https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2176876#post2176876"thus 3 damps by amarr and 3 damps (but perhaps a basic instead of the complex) by a gal are required to get under the min/maxing of a gal logi focused scanner. " https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2177170#post2177170All you've done since is say how it's unfair how Detection doesn't overcome dampening. Has something changed during your tenure on the CPM? No, it hasn't. Total misinformation. P.S. It takes like all of 5 minutes to search the entirety of a post you want to find. There's nothing special or time consuming about it.
I also love seeing al the "Focused Scanner has high fitting cost," in posts in this thread. For reference, dampening below it takes anywhere form 149 CPU and 18PG comprised of 2 low slots and an Equipment slot vs 1 EQ slot and only 29CPU and 14PG. Or for Min and Amarr it takes another 33 CPU and another low slot. Focused scanners have such a high fitting cost...
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2176876#post2176876
You basically went through the progression of clarification that happened because I was very tired from 12+ hours spent on that thread. I clarified the intent was for all scout to get under using 3 damps (not 4 lol appia misconstruing who'd have thought ) and gal get under usning 2 complex and a basic. (which the cloak provides no?)
"
You used a quote sending me to a response that says nothing about how unfair it is that detection doesn't overcome dampening...it's simply not there..of course...who'd have thunk it.
As I said...misinformation.
Appia at her best. I do not think you should need 4 damps to beat scans as a scout. 3 is as the posts clarify...more than fine.
In 1.7 it cost 4 complex damps of 5 total slots to beat focused. I suggest 3 of our now 6 slot scouts. Sounds about right to me.
But meh, Appia's eisegesis sounds better if you like to create drama exnihilo. Rabblerouser, another to be ignored.
Founder & CEO Fatal Absolution
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Strive. No mattter what
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4915
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Posted - 2014.12.01 19:14:00 -
[325] - Quote
as for the fitting cost of a scanner...it's 1/8 the map around you.....45 of 360 degrees. And 14 PG is 1/8 of your total fitting on the highest PG logi's.
So much for the other 2-3 equip slots light weapon, nade, and 8 high/lows.
I've already suggested cloaks need to have fitting reduced.
Founder & CEO Fatal Absolution
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Strive. No mattter what
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Zaria Min Deir
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
887
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Posted - 2014.12.01 19:24:00 -
[326] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:as for the fitting cost of a scanner...it's 1/8 the map around you.....45 of 360 degrees. And 14 PG is 1/8 of your total fitting on the highest PG logi's.
So much for the other 2-3 equip slots light weapon, nade, and 8 high/lows.
I've already suggested cloaks need to have fitting reduced.
Not to mention the short visibility duration and long cooldown. The PG cost is far from being the only limiting factor on the use of the focused scanner.
Have you considered installing the improved keyboard?
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
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Vitantur Nothus
Nos Nothi
841
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Posted - 2014.12.01 19:26:00 -
[327] - Quote
^ Behaving as expected.
Congrats are in order. You've succeeded in changing the narrative from "assault lite is bad" to "ewar scouts are bad". Seriously doubt that the numbers support your premise, but great job on that!
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4915
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Posted - 2014.12.01 19:32:00 -
[328] - Quote
Vitantur Nothus wrote:^ Behaving as expected. Congrats are in order. You've succeeded in changing the narrative from "assault lite is bad" to "ewar scouts are bad". Seriously doubt that the numbers support you, but great job on that anyway!
mmmmmmm :tears: I love the credit for this, when I really shouldn't be blessed with it. But alas I am happy to be the center of your rage. It makes for some great reading. "zatara-land" and misquotes shall continue!!!! Let the good times roll! 
Continue peasant. I have yet more room in my bowels to gobble up your butthurt. 
Edit: The narrative of "assault lite was bad" is one the scout community barbershop would love to make, but is not what the data shows. Trying to eliminate assault lite's is not the panacea.
Shotgun scouts with RE's were bad...and still are. But alas I didn't propose the idea for concentric circles...SMB did. I AM proposing that the max scan range in the game be like...35m. on the outermost concentric circle though..because reasons. But that's another conversation and the love i'm getting from the likes of you and appia is much more entertaining than engaging in meaningful conversation.
Founder & CEO Fatal Absolution
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Strive. No mattter what
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Vitantur Nothus
Nos Nothi
841
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Posted - 2014.12.01 19:44:00 -
[329] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Vitantur Nothus wrote:^ Behaving as expected. Congrats are in order. You've succeeded in changing the narrative from "assault lite is bad" to "ewar scouts are bad". Seriously doubt that the numbers support you, but great job on that anyway! mmmmmmm :tears: I love the credit for this, when I really shouldn't be blessed with it. But alas I am happy to be the center of your rage. It makes for some great reading. "zatara-land" and misquotes shall continue!!!! Let the good times roll! Continue peasant. I have yet more room in my bowels to gobble up your butthurt.
How can this possibly be deemed constructive, appropriate or anything other than flamebaiting? Are you immune to Forum Rules of Conduct? I am quite confident that I am not.
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
19713
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Posted - 2014.12.01 19:45:00 -
[330] - Quote
Vitantur Nothus wrote:^ Behaving as expected. Congrats are in order. You've succeeded in changing the narrative from "assault lite is bad" to "ewar scouts are bad". Seriously doubt that the numbers support you, but great job on that anyway!
You, too, are behaving quite as expected.
I'm not going to congratulate you on it though because it has always been your own narrative.
The Federation is not a defined region of space, of planets, of mountains, rivers, or woods. It is a vision.
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