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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |
Aeon Amadi
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
7247
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Posted - 2014.11.17 18:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
First of all (and yes this is warranting of all caps)
****ING THANK YOU
Now that that burst of emphatic glee is out of the way.
I love this change, honestly. It's exactly what I had in mind as far as an 'uncertainty' factor when it comes to EWAR because it is entirely too binary. However, the numbers are far off from adding anything of the sort to that uncertainty factor when it takes dramatically more range/amplifier modules to hunt down problem scouts by comparison to how many dampeners and inherent skill bonuses they receive.
I feel I have a really elegant solution though I'm not sure if it's entirely possible: Adding cross bonuses to amplifiers and range enhancers. I.E: If I have a range enhancer (dunno the numbers by heart so bear with me) which gives me 45% increased range as well as 5-10% better precision. This takes some of the edge of having to stack -so many- modules without having to go back and change too many base numbers one the suits/modules.
Alternatively, without strictly speaking numbers, I do echo a lot of the sentiment other players in the community are saying in that scan ranges need to be furthered out a bit to be more useful. 15m isn't enough, anything within that radius has already seen you and is likely already shooting you. Precision needs to be looked at as well so that it's more useful as it's too difficult to try and make useful when considering range restrictions. The inevitable flaw with trying to go EWAR is that it's not going to help you if you're already dead, so there needs to be a decent balance.
Essentially, we need more of the Rock Paper Scissors aspects. HP/Recovery/EWAR/Damage, in this case. You can specialize and be really good at it but be lacking in the other departments, or go for a well rounded balance. Tanking preference has a lot to do with it as well; Shield tankers will inherently be better at dampening as they can fit both HP/Recovery and Dampening; whereas Armor tankers will be better at Precision because... Well. It's the only module they can put in their high slots outside of damage modules to complement their HP/Recovery.
I don't think this can be solved without cross bonuses as I stated above or individually going in and changing the suits' base EWAR capabilities at the -RACIAL- level and not just at the -CLASS- level.
Long-Term Roadmap
This Player is Against Proto BPOs
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Aeon Amadi
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
7248
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Posted - 2014.11.18 04:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:One Eyed King wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:Vitantur Nothus wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:
I have a lot of red flags about providing scouts with advantages in all 3 aspects of e-war.
Somewhat confused. Why can't squishy scouts be better at EWAR than 1000+ HP units? And if Zatara had his way, what would want Scouts to do in PC? Oh they absolutely should. Who insinuated otherwise?  But when a squishy scout has the meta in all three aspects of e-war then you get to today in PC...where scouts are only not the most spammed thing in PC because when assaulting a point heavies ehp/hmg dps >cloak/re scouts. What should their purpose in PC be? You take scouts in 1.7 and add in the extra high or low and the equip slot...to say nothing of the cloak..and 1.7 woulda been awesome. I am by no means a PC player, but when cloaks are intimately tied to EWAR (all except for Gal), and you at the very least have a higher occurrence of Gal Logi's with Focused scanners and Amarr with max precision than pubs/FW, then you in essence force them to use the cloaks. No maybe there is some fluke where PC players aren't maxing their passive and active scanning abilities, I don't know. But it seems to me that in PC, of all places, because of the likelyhood to max out suit fittings, and having EWAR tied up in cloaks, that it is only natural that is what they would use. On paper gal logi's look really appetizing in attempting to play a role in detecting scouts.. In practice...they are useless at detecting scouts...and amarr aren't much better. The % of the time you're going to scan a scout in PC because you used a gallogi focused is lol...and then it's 5 seconds with a long cooldown. So yeah..all scouts in PC use 2 damps + cloak...what's your point? Unless facing an opponent who you presume is a noob (pubs)..there's very little reason -not- to run 2 damps and a cloak in all situations..unless you're purposefully brick tanking it. Edit: Yeah I don't know what exactly of my post you're responding to/contesting. Care to clarify?
I really hate that team-scans were implemented, honestly. At first I was excited because I was like, "Yay, my Gal Logi bonus actually helps the team and not just the squad" and "Yay, more WP finally I can be like the other Logis"
Annnnd then I come to find out everyone and their mother is just *****ing about being perma-scanned and we don't even get WP for it anyway.
Soooo kill the team scans with fire, allow Gal Logis to actually be able to scan Scouts with a Focused (I still think it was the dumbest decision ever to make it to where all scouts could get underneath that) and then balance the passive scans accordingly. Gal Logi needs to be good at -something- and considering -no one uses the focused scanner anyway-.....
Long-Term Roadmap
This Player is Against Proto BPOs
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Aeon Amadi
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
7257
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Posted - 2014.11.18 14:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Vitantur Nothus wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:I think we all agree that scouts cant be best at every eWAR aspect in the game, while at the same time being the fastest suits with smallest hitboxes. That's a fantastic mischaracterization. We don't all agree. Being the best at EWAR is no more sound basis for a nerf than Heavies being the best at stacking HP, Logis being the best at dropping EQ and Assaults being the best at frontline slaying. What does a Scout contribute to squad if not his passive scans?
Spleen removing CQC accompanied by insanely low profile and cloaks, two equipment slots providing 'Logi-Lite' gameplay, able to stack as much EHP as some Assault's while still maintaining a faster speed.
I feel like Iron Man talking to Thor right now.
We're cool with Scouts being the best at -SOME- EWAR but being the best at all of it - let alone all of it at once - is just stupid. It's treading on too many toes of other roles and it's created a particular viability decrease in a lot of those roles. Knowing in the back of my mind how -useless- the Focused Scanner is and the fact that I can't even scan down any scout that decides to fit his suit a certain way..? Pointless. Might as well just run Amarr Scout.
Long-Term Roadmap
This Player is Against Proto BPOs
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Aeon Amadi
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
7268
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Posted - 2014.11.19 01:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
Originally, CCP wanted players to be able to shoot while cloaked (I have a quote that I can link if you guys need proof) and the community shot that down in a hurry. What we got as a result was... Well, being able to shoot before the de-cloak animation even finished.
It's been said several times that the Shotgun isn't what's over-powered and it's not, it was hardly ever changed since it's inception. What did change however is the Scouts, more importantly the implementation of the cloaking device. Which isn't bad, but the way the CPM 0 wanted the cloaking device to work was for movement from point a to point b. Not predator / 'gotcha' kills. Rightfully so as the entire gameplay mechanic is **** poor, annoying, and silly.
Cloaking is also a nice subject of debate. Judge Rhadamanthus (sp?) brought up the Toupee Fallacy:
"The arguer claims that they can always recognize when something is present. This is likely a fallacy because the arguer is not aware of all of the times that he/she did not recognize it."
The same applies to cloaking. How could you ever know of the times you -DID NOT- see a cloaked scout if the entire premise is that you did not see them?
That being said, we have to consider the factor that the cloaking device was, by the CPM 0 standards, meant for movement and not combat. So the exact contradiction is that cloaking devices are more powerful, visually, when standing still as opposed to moving. I think we could honestly reverse that to discourage camping by making them glow a brighter blue shade (more obvious) when holding still and the cloak being more powerful (perfect invisibility) when moving.
Now, hold your horses because I realize that this sounds contrary to a 'nerf' toward Scouts. The reason being for this change would be to open up more opportunities to hit the de-cloak harshly. Talking several seconds before the user can pull their weapon and begin firing. This way, we encourage the cloaking device for low-profile movement while at the same time encouraging more critical thinking on the Scout's behalf. It would encourage players to want to decloak -BEFORE- entering combat zones instead of making themselves vulnerable when they're already within the optimal range of their shotgun. Or as Arkena Wyrnspire put it, "the spleen removal zone".
Just my 0.02 ISK
Long-Term Roadmap
This Player is Against Proto BPOs
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