You, too, are behaving quite as expected.
I'm not going to congratulate you on it though because it has always been your own narrative.

If you would like to have a real conversation ....

Lol crymoar.

1. What comes of the MN Scout's bonus if he can't backstab without being detected?

Need to see how min scouts being detected at short ranges affects things. Personally I'd like to see the short range be like 8-10 meters max and even with all the range mods in the world they can only get the innermost circle to like 18m-20MAX...open to suggestions. But min can jump like 10 meters while charging knives at crazy fast speeds. And don't tell me about backpedaling...the min scout will walk right into you...ESPECIALLY if you're not an assault suit using nothing but ferroscale for low slot tank.


2. What comes of the AM/CA Scout PC Roles if the Logi is rendered superior at recon?

I've said this elsewhere but scouts IMO should not be the meta of base starting precision and range. If the bonuses allow that scout role to basically negate that 'weakness' and allow it to basically convert it into a moderate (albeit not 'meta' strength vs a slow logi suit lighting up like a christmas tree with no EHP to boot!?)

3. How are Recon Scouts being role-bled by the Logi any different than Assaults being role-bled by Assault Lite?
Assaults aren't being role bled by assault lite's...haven't since the changes to cloak dampening and rebalance to e-war to need 2 complex damps + cloak (non gal) to get under 'meta' scans...tanky scouts aren't a major issue...aside from maybe strafe speed/hitbox and the higher base starting e-war that gives it clear advantages over the assault. Assaults even if scouts are nerfed are not suddenly viable..they haven't been 'meta' since chrome...logi's > assault from 1.0-1.8 and now with heavies and scout the way they are assaults in the 'meta' simply serve no purpose...see Shiyou Hideyoshi and anyone who used to run slayer logi suits swapping to scouts...who needs more than 450 ehp against a non heavy when you can get 300-400 ehp off of them before they can locate you...if they do at all..and if they do locate you in time to have EVEN ehp with you...strafe battles with relative amounts of EHP vs scouts...you tell me who's going to win.

4. What specific measures will be taken to prevent Scout usage rates from skewing heavily toward GA Scouts?
Umm..great question...aren't they already in the 'meta'? I only see 2 amarr scouts for scanning in PC max and then the rest run gal shotty or cal scouts with like CR and they aren't fitting it to be unscannable.

5. What specific numbers support the claim that EWAR Scouts are in fact problematic?
Great question. I can't discuss this in detail because all the data because obvious reasons. Why are shotgun gal scouts the most prevalent thing spammed in PC aside from heavies per Rattati's numbers? In a battle between a 500 ehp scout and a 850-900 ehp assault why does the scout win 1v1's with rifles the vast majority of the time on not open ground? E-war is a potential explanation. Strafing is another. First shot advantage is HUGE. And the time it takes to locate an enemy in dust can be fatally long. If when you started shooting it increased your profile and your enemy lit up like James Franco in Pineapple Express...then maybe it'd be different..I don't pretend to know for a surety. And great conversations about this should be had...one problem is that I don't see you (and other individuals like you) seeking out proactively to identify from players outside your clique what the problems of scouts are (lol sorry it's not as simple as "assault lite's") and having lively and constructive debates where you're offering solutions to the consensus problems plaguing scouts.

6. How will the proposed changes not make more prolific and problematic the Heavy+Logi blob?
That needs to be nerfed quick fast and in a hurry. And if you'd like to help me I think it'd be VERY pertinent to be making the forums ring with the fact that Heavies are ******* OP and that heavy blobs (logi's are just a side benefit) are inexcusably difficult to deal with. And things like "ob them" are not an acceptable answer.

7. How will the proposed changes encourage use of dampeners among MedFrames?
Well, watching the meta unfold in PC from these changes will be interesting...I keep saying this but because passive scans can't feasibly be removed...scan ranges need to be nerfed dramatically. The innermost circle on a heavy nets you 5m...8-10 for logi's/scouts/assaults. Min maxing with 5 range amps should IMO give you a max innermost concentric circle of like 15-18m 20 just sounds high...and the MAX passive scan range i'd like to see would be like 35m. The lower the min max scan ranges...the less passive scans are efficacious and the more people will need to rely on their own e-war situaiton...and not just min max dampening or saying **** it because a cal/amarr scout scans them 40m out regardless.

8. If "360 wallhack scans" are a balance problem, why are we adding to the number of units who can do it?

Oh btw shotty, this is much more constructive. Thank you!

LOL

That's not Shotty.

Amps decrease Precision
Precision reduces range

Both increase Profile

please keep the childish bickering to a minimum.

Some issues with the current proposal I see are:

dampeners are still worthless for medium frames in a competitive environment
minmatar and amarr scouts can be scanned in close range no matter what they do
many suits can have high precision, range, and hp all at once

Suggestions:

Cloak bonus increased
Passive scans only show on minimap, no chevrons above enemies
medium frame profile reduced further
range amps in high slots

PS: A backpedaling MN Assault is being pursued by MN Scout walking forward. Each second the MN Scout survives, he gains 0.35 meters on the Assault. Closing a gap of 5 meters would require roughly 14 seconds. Assuming the MN Assault is out of ammo, how might this chase pan out if it is being broadcasted to TacNet?

Thank you.

PS: A backpedaling MN Assault is being pursued by MN Scout walking forward. Each second the MN Scout survives, he gains 0.35 meters on the Assault. Closing a gap of 5 meters would require roughly 14 seconds. Assuming the MN Assault is out of ammo, how might this chase pan out if it is being broadcasted to TacNet?

A heavy fires his HMG at a RR wielding assault while sprinting at the assault 60 meters out. [insert math about how long it would take for the heavy to get to assault] assuming the RR user is out of ammo and get stuck in the map...how long before the heavy catches and kills the assault? How many bullets from 60m out would he have fired before the kill taking into account overheat mechanics and dispersion changes while he closed the distance?

I do think dampening for medium frames needs a buff.

Can you provide specific examples of the best combo's of ehp/range, and precision...and what it would take to beat them from a few suits?

I would love to see range amps in high slots. and codebreakers!

I'd love to see no chevrons over enemies heads from passive scans...should be a minimap thing, not the actual screen...it's no damn dumb.

Amps decrease Precision
Precision reduces range

Both increase Profile

amarr scout
2 precision
2 range
2 complex armor plates

Only the gallente scout can evade scans in close range. To do this it needs a minimum of 3 complex dampeners

8. If "360 wallhack scans" are a balance problem, why are we adding to the number of units who can do it?

because if you can't make it so no one can do it...then make it so everyone can do it. I don't know how giving only one class something that's OP makes sense...But that's not really my argument...just general logic in this particular response.

[quote=hfderrtgvcd]please keep the childish bickering to a minimum.
...

...
I do think dampening for medium frames needs a buff.
Can you provide specific examples of the best combo's of ehp/range, and precision...and what it would take to beat them from a few suits?...

Yeah...as I've said elsewhere I've suggested that scan range be nerfed significantly.

2 complex plates is like 300 ehp + what 200 ehp base? 500 ehp is not a super high ehp suit. it's decent..and it's enough to slay, but it's not "high ehp"

Except both the logi and the shortscan assault won't pick up the scout unless he's not dampened at all.

If you're not investing at all in any dampening, it shouldn't take significant investment to pick you up on scan.

The Minscout is less of a problem than, say, a Galscout who doesn't dampen because he already has a bonus for it. Shifting the bonus to module efficacy and then tweaking EWAR values so that undampened scouts can be picked up without massive difficulty means that you don't end up with scouts who eschew dampening except in a small handful of situations but have fitted a load of other mods without sacrificing EWAR security.


Inherent scout EWAR supremacy should not be so strong without fitting any mods. There are few problems with scouts fitted for EWAR being good at EWAR.

I'm of the opinion that Scouts should be running damps. Preferably two. I also agree that moving Scout EWAR bonuses to point to efficacy would be good for balance. These points I've expressed consistently.

What I disagree with are Logis sharing passive scans at 18dB from 15m to 40m. This shuts down CQC play for all but Gallente Scouts, this replaces the AM Scout with an embedded recon unit which generates constant and massive WP, and this upgrades Heavy+Logi blobs to near omniscience. There is no way that this is good for balance.

Except both the logi and the shortscan assault won't pick up the scout unless he's not dampened at all.

If you're not investing at all in any dampening, it shouldn't take significant investment to pick you up on scan.

The Minscout is less of a problem than, say, a Galscout who doesn't dampen because he already has a bonus for it. Shifting the bonus to module efficacy and then tweaking EWAR values so that undampened scouts can be picked up without massive difficulty means that you don't end up with scouts who eschew dampening except in a small handful of situations but have fitted a load of other mods without sacrificing EWAR security.


Inherent scout EWAR supremacy should not be so strong without fitting any mods. There are few problems with scouts fitted for EWAR being good at EWAR.


EDIT: Additionally, EWAR should be accessible to suits other than scouts.

And again, please see:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2491443#post2491443
And example were scouts have to use damps and precisions to be better, and mediums to get and edge and heavys get the jump on some mediums and scouts.
I have proposed this before.

What I disagree with are Logis sharing passive scans at 18dB from 15m to 40m. This shuts down CQC play for MN/AM Scouts, replaces the AM Scout with an embedded recon unit which generates constant and massive WP, and this upgrades Heavy+Logi blobs to near omniscience. There is no way that this is good for balance.

[
What I disagree with are Logis sharing passive scans at 18dB from 15m to 40m. This shuts down CQC play for all but Gallente Scouts, this replaces the AM Scout with a Recon Unit which generates constant WP, and this upgrades Heavy+Logi blobs to near omniscience.