...So, how does this help medium frame participation in EWAR? Well, I personally don't think medium frames can or should compete with scouts in stealth... Assaults can choose to dampen to try and hide themselves from active scanners/other mediums/heavies etc. But they don't need to reach the levels of dampening a scout can. But mediums should have a decent chance at detecting scouts, yes, even dampened ones. And the numbers we have seen really don't include a decent chance for that, 1 or 2 dampeners would be enough to competely hide a scout from any scans a medium frame is capable of. So, sacrificing slots for enhancers seems rather pointless. But if a medium frame can see a scout in their short range scans, the dynamic becomes less one-sided. Now everyone can choose to increase their effectiveness against stealthy players by increasing their scan range... as increased scan range would also slightly increase the radius of the short range scans.

You shoukd see my proposal:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=warning&l=https%3a%2f%2fdrive.google.com%2ffile%2fd%2f0ByLpG42z7QGHZHlUa3BhRW5IV3c%2fview%3fusp%3dsharing&domain=google.com

and see if the ranges are what you were saying.
As to the rest, you are to focused on range and precision and forget damps. And also remember slot configuration.
Take the opposites, Caldari, lots of high slots means precision mods for all suits and the scouts have the range.
Gallente, low slots, lots of damps and range if needed, scout have a precision bonus because of a few high slots
The other two are in between.
See the sheet and think on it.

I completely agree with Fox's statement.

Zatara previously mentioned that, among other reasons, he liked the cloak because it gave players an active means of changing their scan profile. I believe that Fox's change would be the next best thing for other suits, allowing them to dynamically (On a suit-to-suit basis) change their scan profile.

However, I do think that one addition needs to be made: We should have combat actions like shooting and sprinting increase your scanning profile and dot size, and passive actions like crouching or standing still decrease your scanning profile and dot size.

I like the idea of a Heavy deceiving other players into thinking it is a medium suit by wearing dampeners. However, I would also like an Assault to deceive other players into thinking it was a heavy because it did actions to enlarge its dot size

100% in favor.

[quote=Zatara Rought]I still am very much in love with Cet Mercs brilliant work here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DrCb0IiA3G3MjjnObKURzEQBl46sfzbtIOKN_4iJWdM/edit#gid=0[/quote

I admit its interresting.
Ive put the values in Haerrs sheet. There are problems, for example the pro max GalLogi sees all and thats not right for scouts. It should at least have a contestant in the same range.
Thats why I use Haerrs, it covers all the possibilities.

Here is Cat Mercs values in the sheet:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByLpG42z7QGHRFNvTmtTbFRRYmM/view?usp=sharing

Later I-¦ll post a tweaked version.

I still am very much in love with Cet Mercs brilliant work here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DrCb0IiA3G3MjjnObKURzEQBl46sfzbtIOKN_4iJWdM/edit#gid=0

Cet Mercs brilliant work here

Cet Merc

Also 100% in favor.

...removed but wonderful words...

It sees all but 4x dampened Gallente Scout.

This is a very specialized and unwieldy piece of equipment (Focused scanner), put on a suit that has no other reason to exist.
If you don't use a scanner, you might as well use a different Logi suit.

Hence it's fitting that getting under it is extremely hard.

I also think for example that just because the gal scout is the only scout that could avoid such scans in the sheet does not mean that this won't further be influenced (hopefully) by other actions that scouts could take to reduce profile further...ex crouching.

I'm not sure how I feel about it honestly. I agree the focused scanner on the gal logi suit...while being 14 PG...that's 5 seconds or so on 1/8 of the radius of the map. With the long cooldown time

Even with 4 you can't keep "perma scans up" and even if you could keeping them up would be limited...again..by the 1/8th of the map you can see with the 45 degrees the focused covers.

If it did prove to be OP i'd reduced it so that the min and amarr could be unscannable with 3 damps + proto cloak.

But the focused does little beyond "keep the enemy honest" in it's current iteration.

The problem with this is the same problem with many of the other nerfs.

The Gal scout IS the problem. It is the OP suit. Not the Amarr or the Minja. The Cal has it's own separate issues.

These kind of changes only increase imbalance by making Gal scouts the most viable.

In what way will you ensure that these changes will actually nerf what the problem is without further eroding, and once again dismissing, the group of people dedicated to those roles?

So umm, since the Gal Scout can avoid a highly specialized scan that happens every 40 or so seconds, and even then it needs to have all of its low slots fitted with dampeners, it means it's OP?
What about the Cal Scout in my design being practically a walking radar with a max range of 150 meters?
Mind you, the Amarr Scout can detect the Gal Scout within its short range scanners with two precision enhancers.

Heys guys.
I-¦m still tweaking Cat Mercs sheet values and had to try something out because as you could see assaults and heavys had no chance in that last sheet (example, sentinel would need 2 complex damps to evade another sentinel...)
Since all bonuses are percentage based, I had to use a dampening and precision scale from 1 to 200.
I still have problems with the Gal Logi, its bonus needs to be scrapped and the precision values, per suit and scanner, have to be fixed or else it doesn-¦t fit well in the scale.
Beacause of so many variables, I favor scrapping the cloak bonus.

I can already say the result for mediums and heavys and provisional amarr/min scout values look like this:
To not be seen on TACNET:
Sentinel needs 1B damp versus Commando in short range
Commando needs 1B damp versus Sentinel in short range (this could be tweaked so not so)

Comm/Sent needs 1C damp versus assault in short range
Comm/Sent needs 1B damp versus assault in medium range

Comm/Sent needs 1C+E damp versus Cal/Min Scout in short range
Comm/Sent needs 1C damp versus Cal/Min Scout in medium range

Comm/Sent needs 3C damp versus Gal Scout in short range
Comm/Sent needs 2C damp versus Gal Scout in medium range
Comm/Sent needs 1C damp versus Gal Scout in long range

Comm/Sent needs 2C damp versus 2 complex precision assault in medium range

Assault needs 1E damp against another assault in short range. In Medium nothing is needed
Assault needs nothing against comm/sent with 1 complex precision in medium range
Assault needs 1C damp against Cal/Min Scout in short range and 1E in medium
Assault needs 1C damp against Gal Scout in medium range, 1E in long. 2C in short range
Assault needs 1C+E damp against 2 complex precision assault
Assault needs 2C damp or more against 2 complex precisions Logi
Assault needs 2C+B damp against Amarr Scout in medium range, 1C in long range
Assault needs 1C+E against Cal/Min Scout in medium range, 2C+1B in short range

A/M Scout needs 1B damp against assault in short range, nothing in medium
A/M Scout needs 1E damp against Comm/Sent in short range

These are "sort of values" because of the cloak.
Post the new sheet later.

When did you last get my numbers?
Because I have updated them quite actively over the last couple of days.

As far as the Gal Logi, it's a very precise scan that happens once every 40 seconds and lasts 5 seconds.
If it wasn't EXTREMELY hard to avoid, it would be useless.
Simple as that.

Honestly, dont remember, but you quoted me today so I thinks its those:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2479307#post2479307

Your Values: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=warning&l=https%3a%2f%2fdrive.google.com%2ffile%2fd%2f0ByLpG42z7QGHRFNvTmtTbFRRYmM%2fview%3fusp%3dsharing&domain=google.com

Were a bit to agressive and hard for assaults and heavys, and I think the intended is the inverse.
If these are not your latest, then I missed something along the way...

How are they aggressive?
Two dampeners put you under the strongest scout long range and medium range scanning, it's only once you enter short range where it becomes a headache to try and get under the scans.

Heavies aren't exactly supposed to be highly competitive in EWAR.
They have massive advantages offset by being slow, blind and easily detected.
They will be slightly less so with these changes, but they'll still be all three.

Assault suits should have a long rang/low precision outer ring to detect undampened Sentinels. (15 to 20m.)
Assault suits should have a mid-rang precision identical to what they have now. (10m to 15m)
Assaults suits should have a high precision in the near circle to detect undamponed Scouts that get too close. (~10 m)
...

Got me thinking...