Kigurosaka Laaksonen
DUST University
Ivy League
979
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Posted - 2014.05.15 03:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
I do appreciate the reaching out and further explanation of your vision for the future of Legion (not DUST, I guess?), but, as you admit, it's not like EVE, and EVE stuff is good for EVE, but this isn't EVE, etc. etc.
Playing an FPS suitable version of EVE is what I looked forward to. CCP Shanghai seems set on having nothing to do with EVE as far as mechanics go. Here are two examples...
The Skill Tree
There are many skill trees in EVE, i.e. Gunnery, Science, Spaceship Command, etc. Any skill goes from 1 - 5. Some skills have prereqs within their own tree and some have prereqs that cross into other trees (T2 Spaceship Command skills are a great example of that.)
The Tier System
I'm not sure where DUST's three separate (but two are functionally identical) tiers came from. There is no precedent for this from over 10 successful years of EVE. MLT / STD / ADV / PRO is one. Basic / enhanced / complex (which for some reason was never abbreviated) is the second and these two are identical. The third tier are suits, a 'Basic Frame' without a role bonus and a specialized role bonused suit. This one is completely bogus. Some people have tried to equate non-role bonused and role bonused suits as T1 and T2 EVE equivalents, but it doesn't hold. You skill into them differently and they have different values. If DUST's suit tier system was introduced to EVE, it would be to the extreme detriment of EVE.
These two examples combined give me the impression (not saying that you are) that, in general, CCP Shanghai is woefully ignorant of EVE and the IP in general. The mechanics from EVE work. They're tried and true over 10+ years. They can be translated into an incredible and unique FPS experience. From where I'm sitting, it just looks like CCP Shanghai is unwilling to take advantage of the success that EVE enjoys by emulating it in an FPS environment.
As a side thought, I watch the Sandbox presentation where CCP IForgotHisName and Dr. E struggled to articulate how DUST (or Legion?) would eventually have a player driven market like EVE does. You don't have to struggle with new ideas for how to make this work. CCP has already done this in EVE and you just have to do it again (and improve where there's room.) Again, in the case of a player driven market, it looks like CCP Shanghai is actively ignoring the lessons learned from EVE.
As another side though, BPOs. What the hell was that all about? I'm not going to explain how they work in EVE, suffice to say they're used in the manufacturing and research process. And in DUST, you have nothing that resembles any kind of production at all, but you still introduce BPOs completely destroy any EVE connection by making them a free item? I would love to have BPO Vindicators in EVE and just fly around without a care in the world. So yeah, from my point of view, it looks like CCP Shanghai is actively denying any knowledge of the existence of EVE.
The vision that was presented for DUST (and/or Legion?) takes this game even further from any of the few EVE-like qualities it still has. Being an MMOFPS won't make DUST or Legion (I'll just say 'your game') special. Being like CoD or BF or Planetside or Firefall won't make your game stand out, or make it successful. Being like EVE, one of the most unique, special, and successful MMOs in the world, will.
And can we talk about the initial decision to launch exclusively on the PS3? Has any from CCP even acknowledged that was a horrible idea? Did anyone from Sony let you guys know the PS4 was on its way? Did someone at CCP forget they had been developing for the PC and had no experience on consoles?
Sorry, this post is getting too emotionally driven. Anyway, if Legion is also free to play, sure, I'll give it a try. I've spent my money on DUST with the hope of an EVE-like fps experience. Now that I know that won't happen, spending on DUST and Legion will stop.
CCP Z wrote:Ulysses Knapse wrote:
I strongly suggest that EVE: Legion adopt a progression system that mirrors EVE Online. I don't see why not.
And I am strongly working doing the opposite for the reasons stated 20 times in this thread :)
If you're unwilling to budge on this, I'm simply unwilling to spend money on this. The fact is, EVE's progression system works. It has worked for over 10yrs. I mean, how can I think anything else than that you're just throwing that experience out the window? And with this whole Unified EVE thing that Hilmar talked about, how could being exactly the opposite of EVE accommodate that?
DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/
EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
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Kigurosaka Laaksonen
DUST University
Ivy League
979
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 03:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
And something that I remember for some reason from your presentation, or maybe a panel / roundtable.
You said something to the effect of not liking that a player be stuck forever if he makes a mistake and dumps SP into something he didn't "mean" to. (Let's be honest, he meant to, but suffered from some buyer's remorse later.)
This entire mentality is contrary to what CCP has built with EVE, and what we've come to expect from New Eden, where you're setting DUST (or Legion?).
At a superficial level it goes against the HTFU mindset (that I don't agree with.) All the information is available to the player. There are in game descriptions. They can access an admittedly terrible but no-skills-required MLT version of the item they want to try (again, a strange tier system that I would ruin EVE.) They can even watch youtube videos reviewing the weapon / suit / thing they want to try. If they're so lucky to have friends, they can even ask for first hand experience. No one 'accidentally' skills something higher than they intended to. Whether they would have made that same decision in a month or however far in the future is immaterial.
At a deeper and more important level, no one is 'stuck forever.' In EVE, every skill has a purpose and reason for training to 5. That doesn't mean something else might be more worthwhile to train, but there's a reason for every 5. DUST can't say that. In EVE, if you skill into something and find you don't like it, that's tough. There are no respecs. The decision is yours to sulk and moan about your poor decision, or find a situational use for whatever you can access in the future. If you actually followed the patterns set by EVE, you could see this mindset applied to DUST. No skill is ever wasted, and no player is ever 'stuck.' (In EVE, at least, because DUST doesn't satisfactorily mirror EVE. (and Legion won't either?))
DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/
EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
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