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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 28 post(s) |
TrueXer0z
DUST University Ivy League
535
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Posted - 2014.05.14 07:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
+1 for the openly shared information. Seeing a lot of good things regarding communication more recently from CCP. Keep it up.
Still..Legion is a long way away. I can't honestly allow my hope to be brought up. Time will tell if these words are something that can be trusted once again.
Edit: Also, as feedback is concerned, all the community can give is suggestions and interests. How can we give feedback on a game that doesn't technically exist yet? I myself look forward to a Closed/Open Beta.
Director, Dust University
@TrueXer0z
Kevall Longstride - CPM1
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TrueXer0z
DUST University Ivy League
535
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Posted - 2014.05.14 08:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
The biggest obstacle you guys still face as far as progression in Eve Legion is to get the project Green Lit. Without that there is not really much discussion to be had. Until the project is a reality and we know without a doubt that the game will be produced then all we can do is speculate.
Some simple suggestions to keep in mind as far as the progression of the game itself. Be very careful how you integrate the Legion economy with Eve Online. Even if the isk from Dust 514 is brought over it is a spec of sand on the beach compared to Eve's robust flow of isk. Legion should be able to stand on its own economy without having to adhere to Eve pilots. If not, pilots will take advantage of the market before it can even establish itself and mercs will be slaves to the whims of player who are just waiting to take advantage of a fresh market.
As for progression in terms of an individual player...Until we as the players can get our hands on a beta version of the game and poke around they current model of the skill tree that has been presented. Everything is purely speculation as I said before. We just won't KNOW until that point.
Get the game approved for production, get a working beta out to the players, then and only then can the real feedback begin.
Director, Dust University
@TrueXer0z
Kevall Longstride - CPM1
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TrueXer0z
DUST University Ivy League
535
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Posted - 2014.05.14 08:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:Back on topic guys...
I really like the idea you have for the removal of the 5 level node system...but how will you implement passive skills and bonuses?
For example, each variant of the Plasma Rifle will have its own node, but will there be extra nodes elsewhere for upgrading the reload/dispersion/ammo capacity? What about passive skills like electronics/engineering that increase dropsuit cpu/pg? Will they now be separate nodes for each extra bonus, or do you have something else in mind?
+1
Edit: Yes you guys want to create something unique from what we know about the Eve Online skill system, but sometimes trying to be overly unique can hurt more then help.
Director, Dust University
@TrueXer0z
Kevall Longstride - CPM1
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TrueXer0z
DUST University Ivy League
535
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Posted - 2014.05.14 08:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
Leeroy Gannarsein wrote:CCP Z wrote:This will remain the case in Legion, for different reasons: You will have different contracts offered to you depending on your Dropsuit Meta Level. Basically, if you have 3 fittings with a 120, 200 and 350 Metalevel, you will have access to 3 different brackets where people will have the same Metalevel range as you. So, no Dropsuit will be obsolete. You will have access to non-match made battles, so basically you can pick any Dropsuit you want. I don't think that quite addresses the concern the player posted, unless I'm misreading your comment. The value of Militia suits (and to a greater extent, BPOs) is twofold; one, they allow me to grind ISK for more expensive suits, which is, and I appreciate this, something you're trying to do away with. But the second is the fact that no matter how hard I try I'm not going to go ISK negative in my sub-10k suit. That opens up quite a few tactical ploys that aren't effective in more expensive suits, like the infamous Jihad Jeep (I mean, who jeeps in proto?) or other actively suicidal ploys, often involving heavy suits and HMGs or light frames, shotguns and REs. I'm worried that matchmaking based on suit meta level will take away some of the tactical diversity DUST offers. As a personal anecdote to illustrate what I mean, I'm currently skilling up Caldari Scout. I should have enough SP for level 3 when I get home, but in the meantime I've been using the STD suit. The suit is 6500ISK, and it makes a profit in every single match, and it's effective; I've kept a KDR of about 2 throughout most of my matches, discarding outliers, which is a small amount less than my normal KDR of 2.5-3. But the price of the suit allows me to have terrible, terrible games in the pursuit of entertainment; one match I had yesterday I went 18/17. Much of the other team in that match (like, more than half) was in prototype scout suits that much, and I'd estimate about half my kills were ADV/PRO suits. It's a very satisfying feeling when I come to the killboard at the end of the game and know that I destroyed more than five times the amount of ISK I lost, even with respect to my enormous deaths total.
KDR in the game means next to nothing, but WP and ISK efficiency means a lot. When you can field 100k isk on the field and destroy 2 million worth of isk..it should mean something. Same with WPs. If you average 1500+ WP per match is should mean something compared to someone averaging 900-1000 WPs. The only real thing I see KDR showing is the likelyhood of a person draining clone count. But if that person is enabling the team to win by removing high value targets from the field...where is the break away?
Director, Dust University
@TrueXer0z
Kevall Longstride - CPM1
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TrueXer0z
DUST University Ivy League
535
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Posted - 2014.05.14 08:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
CCP Blowout wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:
I-Śm trying to ask the hard questions that need to be asked a company that wants to develop the most innovative shooter ever released on a PC.
And that is great - we just need you to appreciate that nothing is being kept from you and that we are trying to be transparent as possible. Reasons for not answering could be: 1. CCP Z has simply not gotten around to it yet 2. We simply do not know yet, and will be revealing more when we do. 3. Your originaly question was tl;dr over in another thread somewhere and could be better addressed if posted here 4.
Hey, instead of responding to one person, why not address some of the other posts from people. Please don't take it the wrong way, but there are others who have posts that deserve some sort of response considering they are trying to give real feedback. Not just arguing.. And, no I am not specifically talking about mine.
Director, Dust University
@TrueXer0z
Kevall Longstride - CPM1
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TrueXer0z
DUST University Ivy League
536
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Posted - 2014.05.14 08:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:TrueXer0z wrote: Hey, instead of responding to one person, why not address some of the other posts from people. Please don't take it the wrong way, but there are others who have posts that deserve some sort of response considering they are trying to give real feedback. Not just arguing.. And, no I am not specifically talking about mine.
CCP Blowout is responding to you because your comments were not particularly related to progression - we'll let CCP Z talk about that as it's his area of expertise and focus.
Might wanna scroll up and look at who he is quoting and responding to. I am not Spectral Clone.
Edit: although my posts are not specifically focused on CCP Z's progression tree, they do talk about why any feedback here in this thread can't really be established properly without the community being able to actually interact. All it is right now is an IDEA. Nothing tangible. Nothing that conceptually will ever see the light of day without a greenlight of the project.
Not taking away from CCP Z's great attempt to communicate. Which I applaud. But, how about a real discussion on what needs to be done to make Legion a reality.
Director, Dust University
@TrueXer0z
Kevall Longstride - CPM1
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TrueXer0z
DUST University Ivy League
538
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Posted - 2014.05.14 11:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
HowDidThatTaste wrote:Did I miss the announcement that Legion was green lit?
If it is green lit what's the earliest we would see it? 1-2 years?
It isn't green lit. Which is why this discussion, this forum itself even existing is very confusing. Why hype something that we are unsure even has a future at all?
Director, Dust University
@TrueXer0z
Kevall Longstride - CPM1
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TrueXer0z
DUST University Ivy League
538
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Posted - 2014.05.14 11:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
Leeroy Gannarsein wrote:TrueXer0z wrote:KDR in the game means next to nothing, but WP and ISK efficiency means a lot. When you can field 100k isk on the field and destroy 2 million worth of isk..it should mean something. Same with WPs. If you average 1500+ WP per match is should mean something compared to someone averaging 900-1000 WPs. The only real thing I see KDR showing is the likelyhood of a person draining clone count. But if that person is enabling the team to win by removing high value targets from the field...where is the break away? While to a certain (okay, significant) extent this is true, when I'm playing solo, as I have been doing for a while now, I play ambush solely. And in ambush, KDR = everything.
Agreed, but the only competitive game mode is Skirmish. (Faction Warfare & PC.) Ambush and Domination game modes are simply for a jaded change of pace.
Director, Dust University
@TrueXer0z
Kevall Longstride - CPM1
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TrueXer0z
DUST University Ivy League
542
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Posted - 2014.05.14 11:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:TrueXer0z wrote:HowDidThatTaste wrote:Did I miss the announcement that Legion was green lit?
If it is green lit what's the earliest we would see it? 1-2 years?
It isn't green lit. Which is why this discussion, this forum itself even existing is very confusing. Why hype something that we are unsure even has a future at all? Because in order to ensure it has a future, we need to get certain things right.
I agree, getting things right is a valid and noble endeavor. However, lets base our understanding of what is the reality that we live in. Through the progression tree might be something you guys are looking to change to make more comprehensive is that really what the community has been asking to be overhauled?
The current skill trees are very simple to understand. my ten year old nephew plays this game and understand them completely with ever having it explained to him. I think instead of a complete overhaul of a skill tree system we should be focused on more important issues.
1, What will PvE be like? 2. Will we ever see any type of independence from the Eve industrial complex? 3. What steps are you taking to make sure the economy of Legion will be comparable with Eve and not be overwhelmed by eve market trading experts? 4. What will the endgame of competitive PvP be like?
Of these few a simple understanding of how the NPE will be established in Legion would be nice. Interactive tutorials and better labeling would do wonders.
I think discussions like these can be good, but can also be a large distraction from the real questions that NEED to be answered.
All that being said....No green light...all of this means absolutely nothing at all.
Director, Dust University
@TrueXer0z
Kevall Longstride - CPM1
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TrueXer0z
DUST University Ivy League
542
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Posted - 2014.05.14 12:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
Melchiah ARANeAE wrote:CCP Z wrote:Respec will have a gradually increasing cost, so your choices matter What kind of cost are we talking about? ISK would allow the mega rich nullsec alliances to constantly give their best players respecs to keep ontop of the FOTM, which will negatively impact NPE and seriously hinder smaller, poorer alliances. AUR respecs would give dust a very strong P2W label, which, I'm sure you know, will make a lot of people stay away from legion. A percentage of total SP could work if you intend to make it a tool for new players to use to try out different roles and find out what they're comfortable with, but I doubt any hardcore players would want to lose months worth of SP for a respec. The problem is what do you want respecs to be used for? What target audience do you see using respecs?
+1 I can't imagine a better stated post about this specific subject.
Director, Dust University
@TrueXer0z
Kevall Longstride - CPM1
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TrueXer0z
DUST University Ivy League
546
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Posted - 2014.05.15 05:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP Z wrote:Ulysses Knapse wrote:I strongly suggest that EVE: Legion adopt a progression system that mirrors EVE Online. I don't see why not. And I am strongly working doing the opposite for the reasons stated 20 times in this thread :)
Why is it necessary for this change? Where are the overwhelming requests threads saying that the skill trees need to be overhauled? Didn't you guys spend the last 2 years trying to balance the game to incorporate the current skill tree? You CCP guys are so way off base with your customers is it kinda of embarrassing to watch. I am embarrassed to tell people about Dust 514/ Legion. (Yes, Dust/Legion are the same IP. How can you even deny that fact?)
Seriously, get you stuff together guys. Enough is enough. What is it going to take? The community is telling you what they want. It is really that simple. Imagine making a game that included actual customer interaction and without the veil of obscurity. Be honest with us. You already have in mind what you plan on doing. Our feedback means nothing at this point. Especially since we don't even have access to a working version of your model.
You guys are making this a lot harder then it has to be. You wonder why the community is toxic? The consistent neglect of a true community voice has lead it to the state it is currently in. We all want this game to be made, we all want it to be awesome, we all want it to succeed. Why must every encounter be a battle between the community vs. the community vs. the Devs?
Director, Dust University
@TrueXer0z
Kevall Longstride - CPM1
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TrueXer0z
DUST University Ivy League
555
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Posted - 2014.05.15 11:48:00 -
[12] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:Adding a dust version of ISIS, certificates, explanations...
That's three layers of extra UI you've just added (which takes resources) and adds more stuff to read through before gaining the clarity you crave.
There is an admission by some that the old system needs 're-done but better' but there is a point I think we can all agree, where there is so much to redo, its actually better to just start again. We've had the current system for over a year and numbers haven't grown.
I agree with you Dennie. I see that when it comes to the progression system we want it to be done properly. It is a huge factor in how the game will evolve and stand the test of time. Legion is a new game in its own right. Or at least it should be. However, what I am seeing is not an addition to the foundation created by dust, but a radical change that we are all too familiar with when dealing with the Dust 514 IP.
Change can be good in the right context. Growing pains are natural in the life of an ever evolving universe such as New Eden. Can we as a community accept another radical change? Especially to a system that yes, may be flawed in some way, but not enough to do a complete overhaul. So much time and effort is being put into something that doesn't really seem to be an issue for a lot of the players coming forward.
You and I of all people should know better then most. We both have spent well over a year interacting with new players. Countless hours talking and testing. Literally crunching numbers and putting in the time to get real feedback from new players and their concerns about things. Very rarely was the idea of the skill tree being overly complicated ever brought to our attention.
I think a lot of what upsets people is that we are seeing the cycle starting all over again and Legion hasn't even been green lite. Devs have grandiose ideas and ask for feedback on a product we haven't even really seen outside of a power point slide. Like I said before. It isn't even going to matter much since CCP Z has a idea of how he wants things to work. It doesn't really matter if we agree with what he is doing. It is happening. Nothing will change that outcome.
Where does this leave us? In the same exact situation that cause the community to start getting upset in the first place. Lots of Devs posting and it looks sweet and feels good to see the blue tags, but the communication is jaded and more of a distraction while CCP get their stuff in order.
We don't want to be so toxic CCP. We want to help you make a game that people will enjoy for years to come. You have the best opportunity to collaborate with a community that is painfully loyal. Please, guys...seriously.....please...listen to what your community is telling you. We are trying to break down the walls of CCP to create something amazing. Allow that to happen.
Director, Dust University
@TrueXer0z
Kevall Longstride - CPM1
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TrueXer0z
DUST University Ivy League
573
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Posted - 2014.05.19 09:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:And Still nobody has answered my question: Why is a skill system that restricts people is better than one that is open, improving that one, and then EXPLAINING THE GODDAMN SYSTEM You've already highlighted your answer in bold. If you have to explain the system, you designed it poorly in the first place.
This is true, but a tutorial option isn't something I see being a bad thing. Even a re playable tutorial. Organizations like Dust University should not have to run lectures on the basic elements of the game. Our focus should be on teaching people what options they can take in order to make their experience a smoother one. Tool tips are an easy way to accomplish a huge leap in understanding on the part of a new player. A simple option to turn tool tips off should be easy enough to handle.
I reiterate my original concerns about even needing something so drastic. I still feel this is a big mistake. It will require more time re-balancing everything. Are you as a community ready for another year of that? Are you CCP ready for another year of that? I see this specific thread as a big distraction anyway.
Once again like I said before, CCP Z already has an idea of how things will be done. Nothing is going to change the outcome of his vision for our "progression." The discussion might influence very slight changes, but not enough to the point where any major ideas shared here will have any impact on the final product.
It is good that the CCP Devs are talking to us a bit more, but I see more deflection and continuously vague statements made. Granted progress is progress and some communication is better then none. But, it is quantity over quality. It is as plain as day and we slowly bite into the same apple that damned us before.
These discussions mean nothing more then to quell the masses. To stop you from taking any real action to make a change. Answers to questions that mean nothing. Statements carefully crafted to keep you chasing the rabbit. Still no concrete evidence supporting a green light. Just an escape from a failed attempt at getting into the console market (Trying again with Valkyrie) and a whole lot of talk.....just talk...
Director, Dust University
@TrueXer0z
Kevall Longstride - CPM1
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