DUST Search - CPM cloak discussion

Athena Sentinel wrote:

Iron Wolf Saber wrote:

Note: Edited the OP; the original can be found quoted below in other posts

*Minmatar scout for the time being should be buffed in fitting to match freedom the other scouts enjoy (imo minmatar should have a bit more than most other suits)

Which leads us to the scout bonus or scout fitting.

So proposed change would be to the scout bonus to cloaks fit. To reduce from 15% to a percent to five lower. I know that something like 13% will look odd on the skill sheet but it works out at max levels with numbers like 70-65-60 for every percent marked down.

So I would like to see this debate continue on what to do with this.

The next more common issue that is greatly affecting game play is how fast one decloaks.

But I also want to give attentive and hunter players the chance to drop on the scout or reflex on the scout and possibly come out on top.

I see no harm in fixing the glitch and possible the intended portion of the time to action decloak speed.

Cloak Charge

I would like to hear more talks about it such as 1 second cloak = 1.5 second charge or the like.

Stealthiness

Change remove cloak ability to dodge scanner: ... it allows dedicated hunters to beat lower cloaks and the like but the entire system needs a rewrite that absolutions are no longer the case (that being nearer a weaker scanner increases risk of detection for example) The number behind the stealthiness could be change but not the mechanics surrounding it. I would like to see more discussion on this as well.

So TL;DR

Updated Op with change in discussion.

All of these changes are extreme. 1 sec cloak... No scan dodge for cloak.. Harder to fit.. Longer decloak speed.. Make Minn scout suit the best.. Give hunter players a chance, You mean a chance to turn there Combat Rifle on my 300HP. So then there is no chance for the scout.

Here is the Truth.. Listen Wolf, man, I have some options for you,

1. Cloak timers are fine: its not a true cloak and your not invisible. Limit the cloak timer (Ok) make it a true cloak! or it is NERF

2. Cloak and Scouts need to dodge scan or all the modules (scan precision, Dampeners, range enhancers) go back to the useless pile. (brick tank your tiny cloak!) Changes to the Scanner - I did suggest this, but scouts should be able to dodge scanners, It should be easier for a scout to dodge a scanner then a scanner to catch a scout, by far!. Scanner are more of a squad tool now, that is cool. But you suggest no stealth ability from scanners.. and that is a bad NERF. Scanner can catch everyone. There is more use for them as a orbital aid for squad members to coordinate with.

3. Making the Cloak harder to fit for the Scout is not right, as it already fits nothing. Still its the second most acceptable NERF I can see. And would promote Brick/Tank scouts to opt out of wearing a cloak. I would suggest instead giving another suit the 5% bonus ability, maybe a assault suit (for the dedicated hunter you talk about).

4. Longer Decloak, this will not save non-cloakers, but will lead to less in-your-face-decloak and more positional attacks (similar to other MMO rogues - attacking from behind is the huge bonus to win, attack from the front is weak) This is the most acceptable NERF. I would suggest a very short timer nerf and a increased sound when decloaking. Similar to other MMO rogues, they decloak makes a sound other players can hear. Adding a sound effect and small decloaking delay - should give players a chance to turn it around. A skilled scout less so, but if he decloaks our of range or misses the other player would have a chance to know he was there, even if he was out of his direct view frame. (with sound effect).

5. Please don't make Minn scouts the OP scout? Min and Amarrr don't even like to fight like that. Cal invented the Stealth Bomber, Gal and Cal do the black ops attacks more.. Its a dirtier war. Min and Amarr have enough hate, there is no hiding an attack, the mins go in guns blazing and the Amarr go in with heavy armor.. Dust should reflect that? Or have more storyline to explain why Min is #1. (you just like the name Minja Cool

) Me to, almost went Min for that but Cal had more ability to see targets Lol

Nerfing the cloak Nerfs the Nano knifes again (so sad).

All those NERFS... Scouts will be the same as pre 1.8

I think I have offered some good solutions, not just rage or QQ.I am a bit angry the forum QQers rule CCP. I started off killing people with my cloak and shotgun like they were clueless. In this short time that has already started to change. Better tactics in game then just players running around solo in assault or logi, hacking and using auto spray rifles. Scouts were killed very easy, and heavies were not worth the isk cost to risk to solo.

The cloak has promoted players to work together, less solo hero runners in proto suits in pubs - solo they were at risk still!. It has limited the run in solo and hack in Logi and Assault suits with no teamwork at all! just run from thing to think for points. It has limited the run into a building blind (now you throw a grenade or wait for back-up or scout to check it out)... The cloak has greatly increased the game tactics.. Far more then anything else in 1.8.... Nerf the scout this heavy and they FOTM players will just all turn to heavy brick tanks until 1.9 and we can all be forced back int assault/heavy/logi.


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Athena Sentinel SOE Knights Templar 246	Posted - 2014.04.12 05:50:00 - [1] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Note: Edited the OP; the original can be found quoted below in other posts Minmatar scout for the time being should be buffed in fitting to match freedom the other scouts enjoy (imo minmatar should have a bit more than most other suits) Which leads us to the scout bonus or scout fitting. So proposed change would be to the scout bonus to cloaks fit. To reduce from 15% to a percent to five lower. I know that something like 13% will look odd on the skill sheet but it works out at max levels with numbers like 70-65-60 for every percent marked down. So I would like to see this debate continue on what to do with this. The next more common issue that is greatly affecting game play is how fast one decloaks. But I also want to give attentive and hunter players the chance to drop on the scout or reflex on the scout and possibly come out on top. I see no harm in fixing the glitch and possible the intended portion of the time to action decloak speed. Cloak Charge I would like to hear more talks about it such as 1 second cloak = 1.5 second charge or the like. Stealthiness Change remove cloak ability to dodge scanner: ... it allows dedicated hunters to beat lower cloaks and the like but the entire system needs a rewrite that absolutions are no longer the case (that being nearer a weaker scanner increases risk of detection for example) The number behind the stealthiness could be change but not the mechanics surrounding it. I would like to see more discussion on this as well. So TL;DR Off the table. Minmatar fitting underpar should be forwarded, let ccp figure the numbers out for that. Brick Tanking is off the table. Better suited for 1.9 discussion due to size and complexity of subject On the table Cloak fitting is on the table still. Cloak decloak speed. Cloak charge rate internally *Cloak electronic stealth value Updated Op with change in discussion. All of these changes are extreme. 1 sec cloak... No scan dodge for cloak.. Harder to fit.. Longer decloak speed.. Make Minn scout suit the best.. Give hunter players a chance, You mean a chance to turn there Combat Rifle on my 300HP. So then there is no chance for the scout. Here is the Truth.. Listen Wolf, man, I have some options for you, 1. Cloak timers are fine: its not a true cloak and your not invisible. Limit the cloak timer (Ok) make it a true cloak! or it is NERF 2. Cloak and Scouts need to dodge scan or all the modules (scan precision, Dampeners, range enhancers) go back to the useless pile. (brick tank your tiny cloak!) Changes to the Scanner - I did suggest this, but scouts should be able to dodge scanners, It should be easier for a scout to dodge a scanner then a scanner to catch a scout, by far!. Scanner are more of a squad tool now, that is cool. But you suggest no stealth ability from scanners.. and that is a bad NERF. Scanner can catch everyone. There is more use for them as a orbital add for squad members to coordinate with. 3. Making the Cloak harder to fit for the Scout is not right, as it already fits nothing. Still its the second most acceptable NERF I can see. And would promote Brick/Tank scouts to opt out of wearing a cloak. I would suggest instead giving another suit the 5% bonus ability, maybe a assault suit (for the dedicated hunter you talk about). 4. Longer Decloak, this will not save non-cloakers, but will lead to less in-your-face-decloak and more positional attacks (similar to other MMO rogues - attacking from behind is the huge bonus to win, attack from the front is weak) This is the most acceptable NERF. I would suggest a very short timer nerf and a increased sound when decloaking. Similar to other MMO rogues, they decloak makes a sound other players can hear. Adding a sound effect and small decloaking delay - should give players a chance to turn it around. A skilled scout less so, but if he decloaks our of range or misses the other player would have a chance to know he was there, even if he was out of his direct view frame. (with sound effect). 5. Please don't make Minn scouts the OP scout? Min and Amarrr don't even like to fight like that. Cal invented the Stealth Bomber, Gal and Cal do the black ops attacks more.. Its a dirtier war. Min and Amarr have enough hate, there is no hiding an attack, the mins go in guns blazing and the Amarr go in with heavy armor.. Dust should reflect that? Or have more storyline to explain why Min is #1. (you just like the name Minja ) Me to, almost went Min for that but Cal had more ability to see targets Nerfing the cloak Nerfs the Nano knifes again (so sad). All those NERFS... Scouts will be the same as pre 1.8 I think I have offered some good solutions, not just rage or QQ.I am a bit angry the forum QQers rule CCP. I started off killing people with my cloak and shotgun like they were clueless. In this short time that has already started to change. Better tactics in game then just players running around solo in assault or logi, hacking and using auto spray rifles. Scouts were killed very easy, and heavies were not worth the isk cost to risk to solo. The cloak has promoted players to work together, less solo hero runners in proto suits in pubs - solo they were at risk still!. It has limited the run in solo and hack in Logi and Assault suits with no teamwork at all! just run from thing to think for points. It has limited the run into a building blind (now you throw a grenade or wait for back-up or scout to check it out)... The cloak has greatly increased the game tactics.. Far more then anything else in 1.8.... Nerf the scout this heavy and they FOTM players will just all turn to heavy brick tanks until 1.9 and we can all be forced back int assault/heavy/logi.
Athena Sentinel SOE Knights Templar 248	Posted - 2014.04.12 18:10:00 - [2] - Quote Athena Sentinel wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Note: Edited the OP; the original can be found quoted below in other posts *Minmatar scout for the time being should be buffed in fitting to match freedom the other scouts enjoy (imo minmatar should have a bit more than most other suits) Which leads us to the scout bonus or scout fitting. So proposed change would be to the scout bonus to cloaks fit. To reduce from 15% to a percent to five lower. I know that something like 13% will look odd on the skill sheet but it works out at max levels with numbers like 70-65-60 for every percent marked down. So I would like to see this debate continue on what to do with this. The next more common issue that is greatly affecting game play is how fast one decloaks. But I also want to give attentive and hunter players the chance to drop on the scout or reflex on the scout and possibly come out on top. I see no harm in fixing the glitch and possible the intended portion of the time to action decloak speed. Cloak Charge I would like to hear more talks about it such as 1 second cloak = 1.5 second charge or the like. Stealthiness Change remove cloak ability to dodge scanner: ... it allows dedicated hunters to beat lower cloaks and the like but the entire system needs a rewrite that absolutions are no longer the case (that being nearer a weaker scanner increases risk of detection for example) The number behind the stealthiness could be change but not the mechanics surrounding it. I would like to see more discussion on this as well. So TL;DR Updated Op with change in discussion. All of these changes are extreme. 1 sec cloak... No scan dodge for cloak.. Harder to fit.. Longer decloak speed.. Make Minn scout suit the best.. Give hunter players a chance, You mean a chance to turn there Combat Rifle on my 300HP. So then there is no chance for the scout. Here is the Truth.. Listen Wolf, man, I have some options for you, 1. Cloak timers are fine: its not a true cloak and your not invisible. Limit the cloak timer (Ok) make it a true cloak! or it is NERF 2. Cloak and Scouts need to dodge scan or all the modules (scan precision, Dampeners, range enhancers) go back to the useless pile. (brick tank your tiny cloak!) Changes to the Scanner - I did suggest this, but scouts should be able to dodge scanners, It should be easier for a scout to dodge a scanner then a scanner to catch a scout, by far!. Scanner are more of a squad tool now, that is cool. But you suggest no stealth ability from scanners.. and that is a bad NERF. Scanner can catch everyone. There is more use for them as a orbital aid for squad members to coordinate with. 3. Making the Cloak harder to fit for the Scout is not right, as it already fits nothing. Still its the second most acceptable NERF I can see. And would promote Brick/Tank scouts to opt out of wearing a cloak. I would suggest instead giving another suit the 5% bonus ability, maybe a assault suit (for the dedicated hunter you talk about). 4. Longer Decloak, this will not save non-cloakers, but will lead to less in-your-face-decloak and more positional attacks (similar to other MMO rogues - attacking from behind is the huge bonus to win, attack from the front is weak) This is the most acceptable NERF. I would suggest a very short timer nerf and a increased sound when decloaking. Similar to other MMO rogues, they decloak makes a sound other players can hear. Adding a sound effect and small decloaking delay - should give players a chance to turn it around. A skilled scout less so, but if he decloaks our of range or misses the other player would have a chance to know he was there, even if he was out of his direct view frame. (with sound effect). 5. Please don't make Minn scouts the OP scout? Min and Amarrr don't even like to fight like that. Cal invented the Stealth Bomber, Gal and Cal do the black ops attacks more.. Its a dirtier war. Min and Amarr have enough hate, there is no hiding an attack, the mins go in guns blazing and the Amarr go in with heavy armor.. Dust should reflect that? Or have more storyline to explain why Min is #1. (you just like the name Minja ) Me to, almost went Min for that but Cal had more ability to see targets Nerfing the cloak Nerfs the Nano knifes again (so sad). All those NERFS... Scouts will be the same as pre 1.8 I think I have offered some good solutions, not just rage or QQ.I am a bit angry the forum QQers rule CCP. I started off killing people with my cloak and shotgun like they were clueless. In this short time that has already started to change. Better tactics in game then just players running around solo in assault or logi, hacking and using auto spray rifles. Scouts were killed very easy, and heavies were not worth the isk cost to risk to solo. The cloak has promoted players to work together, less solo hero runners in proto suits in pubs - solo they were at risk still!. It has limited the run in solo and hack in Logi and Assault suits with no teamwork at all! just run from thing to think for points. It has limited the run into a building blind (now you throw a grenade or wait for back-up or scout to check it out)... The cloak has greatly increased the game tactics.. Far more then anything else in 1.8.... Nerf the scout this heavy and they FOTM players will just all turn to heavy brick tanks until 1.9 and we can all be forced back int assault/heavy/logi. Iron Wolf Saber - I hope you comment back.