DUST Search - CPM cloak discussion

Eko Sol wrote:

Cloak helps bad players be decent players...period. There is no other piece of equipment, module, racial bonus, fit, etc. that does that. I don't know what needs to be done but something does need to be changed. I run the cloak myself and have some serious success. A success that I would not have had if I didn't run the cloak and ran normal scout. No, I am not a bad player but I am an average player that is now getting good to great player level results. There is a serious balance issue. not to mention that if you are brand new to the game and skill 1 point into cloak, 3 into light suits, and 3 into scout suits you will barely be able to have a complete fit if you pop on a basic cloak. If you only skill 1 into scout suits and 1 into cloak, you won't be able to fit the cloak AT ALL. So new players getting merc'd by cloaks can't even attempt to emulate it until they hit closer to 2 or 3 mil SP. There are problems with it. I just don't know what the fix should be. Personally, I think a strong start is to reduce the 15% reduction to CPU/PG usage to 7% and then change the cloak skill itself to 7% reduction per skill point. It takes a lot less skill points to get that 5 in the cloak skill then it does to go to level 5 in the scout suit. That means at 3 in the scout suit and having a 4 or 5 in the cloak skill makes having a cloak, if you are newer, much more viable early on. Not to mention that I will be proto min scout soon and only use the basic cloak. I have no need for anything above that. There is no incentive for me to use skill points there.


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Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 31	Posted - 2014.04.08 01:09:00 - [1] - Quote anaboop wrote: Lets see what hate I get, lol adapt or die, I did. I won't give you hate, but I will point out that your position today is the exact opposite of what it was only a few days ago. You should quote yourself, then argue. That'd be fun. Fun and appropriate. Bang?
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 77	Posted - 2014.04.09 15:53:00 - [2] - Quote Quote: Sure similar to how new HAVs are... HAV: [fires clip of proto swarms, tosses proto AV nades, gets blasted anyway] Cloak: [shoots shimmer, +50] Bang?
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 109	Posted - 2014.04.12 01:50:00 - [3] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: Cloak helps bad players be decent players...period. There is no other piece of equipment, module, racial bonus, fit, etc. that does that. I don't know what needs to be done but something does need to be changed. I run the cloak myself and have some serious success. A success that I would not have had if I didn't run the cloak and ran normal scout. No, I am not a bad player but I am an average player that is now getting good to great player level results. There is a serious balance issue. not to mention that if you are brand new to the game and skill 1 point into cloak, 3 into light suits, and 3 into scout suits you will barely be able to have a complete fit if you pop on a basic cloak. If you only skill 1 into scout suits and 1 into cloak, you won't be able to fit the cloak AT ALL. So new players getting merc'd by cloaks can't even attempt to emulate it until they hit closer to 2 or 3 mil SP. There are problems with it. I just don't know what the fix should be. Personally, I think a strong start is to reduce the 15% reduction to CPU/PG usage to 7% and then change the cloak skill itself to 7% reduction per skill point. It takes a lot less skill points to get that 5 in the cloak skill then it does to go to level 5 in the scout suit. That means at 3 in the scout suit and having a 4 or 5 in the cloak skill makes having a cloak, if you are newer, much more viable early on. Not to mention that I will be proto min scout soon and only use the basic cloak. I have no need for anything above that. There is no incentive for me to use skill points there. This walltext nugget of wisdom is pure bullsh!t. Reality Check: * Scouts are easily countered; anything and everything can kill you as a Scout. * One misstep and you die; unless you armor tank, in which case you get one free misstep. * If you up-armor your Scout, you will assuredly be picked to pieces by the Scouts who do not. * Cloak is a gimmick; it does not render its user invincible; it too is easily countered. If you want to hunt for something OP, first look for those things without viable counters (hint HAVs). Scouts are nasty and devious -- the clever ones probably kick your a** everyday -- but they are far from without counter. @ IWS If it pleases the court, check the logs. See that even the most Legendary of Scouts has fallen to guys running Militia gear. I know I do day in and day out. When was the last time a guy in Militia gear took out a Tank? Bang?
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 109	Posted - 2014.04.12 02:28:00 - [4] - Quote Double Post, though in response to different point. @ Scouts Would it be too much if the cloak's reserve were drained when its user is hit by flux grenade? I can think of any number of scenarios wherein this one change would make things more interesting, for Scout and non-Scout alike. I can think of no scenario wherein it would render neutered every Scout in an area (i.e. old Active Scanners). The measure would address specific QQ scenarios (as in IWS's point defense scenario) while creating for us a new set of challenges and Scout-hunting opportunities. Please list for me the downsides as you see them. I'd like to explore counterpoints to this specific measure. Edit: This request has been forwarded via crosslink to the Barbershop. Bastard input and opinions are warmly welcomed. o7 Bang?
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 110	Posted - 2014.04.12 02:58:00 - [5] - Quote keno trader wrote: Also...putting "bastard" in your post doesn't make it any funnier, cooler, or more civil. The label is directed at those who understand the label. It is offered in show of respect and applies strictly to those listed on hallowed wall. Bang?
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 111	Posted - 2014.04.12 03:18:00 - [6] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: I just got here and all but... Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Off the table. Cloak Charge bar being externally altered by other players. Why the *** should this not happen? By "Off the Table" I think he means cannot be implemented via HotFix. Bang?
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 146	Posted - 2014.04.12 22:05:00 - [7] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Thing is though we can easily simulate the scenarios where cloaks are working as they should. So by definition none of the problems plaguing the cloak are 'game breaking' So ... In Category A, we have clearly broken things like AV, Assault Bonuses, Tanks, etc. In Category B, we have make-believe broken things, namely Cloak. Any chance CCP might focus on fixing what's clearly broken? Bang?
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 159	Posted - 2014.04.13 15:12:00 - [8] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: You're in AE, aura? This is no shot at AE but wow man....thought we go back like drive-ins and car seats :( OT Alert Iggy migrated alongside a handful of standing PHI as part of a group decision. There aren't many of us left, but those who remain wanted to pew-pew alongside guys we know. RND was the first option considered; we go way back like Megatron. OH and a couple RoFL corps were also tabled. AE had more former PHI than any other corp, so we chose AE. Bang?
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 201	Posted - 2014.04.14 15:01:00 - [9] - Quote Th3 Hunt3d wrote: What CCP could have done was put the cloak in the light weapon category, and I know that sounds strange but I will explain; 1. First of all, that would immediately take care of the cloak & shotgun problem plus any other scout slayer problem. 2. The scout would still have their sidearm slot, which in my opinion sidearms are a pretty viable way of defending yourself if you are spotted whilst hacking ( which is the main role of the scout, they are not at all meant to be slayers) 3. This would free up the scouts second equipment slot, which would promote a more tactical and support playstyle. This small change would clear up all of the problems that are currently wreaking havoc with the cloak. By the way, this is all coming from a lvl 5 proto minja who has had plenty of experience with both scouting and cloaking. Your "small change" doesn't sound a 'bit strange; it sounds quite familiar. The Scout Community tarred and feathered one of its own for proposing the same. He has fully recovered, but the idea is still bad. Here's a thought ... How 'bout we adjust cloak as needed instead of crippling an entire class? Bang?