DUST Search - CPM cloak discussion

Eko Sol wrote:

Cloak helps bad players be decent players...period. There is no other piece of equipment, module, racial bonus, fit, etc. that does that. I don't know what needs to be done but something does need to be changed. I run the cloak myself and have some serious success. A success that I would not have had if I didn't run the cloak and ran normal scout. No, I am not a bad player but I am an average player that is now getting good to great player level results. There is a serious balance issue. not to mention that if you are brand new to the game and skill 1 point into cloak, 3 into light suits, and 3 into scout suits you will barely be able to have a complete fit if you pop on a basic cloak. If you only skill 1 into scout suits and 1 into cloak, you won't be able to fit the cloak AT ALL. So new players getting merc'd by cloaks can't even attempt to emulate it until they hit closer to 2 or 3 mil SP. There are problems with it. I just don't know what the fix should be. Personally, I think a strong start is to reduce the 15% reduction to CPU/PG usage to 7% and then change the cloak skill itself to 7% reduction per skill point. It takes a lot less skill points to get that 5 in the cloak skill then it does to go to level 5 in the scout suit. That means at 3 in the scout suit and having a 4 or 5 in the cloak skill makes having a cloak, if you are newer, much more viable early on. Not to mention that I will be proto min scout soon and only use the basic cloak. I have no need for anything above that. There is no incentive for me to use skill points there.


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keno trader FACTION WARFARE ARMY FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE 0	Posted - 2014.04.09 18:33:00 - [1] - Quote Here are me ol' thoughts on the current situaci+¦n regarding ze cloak. (And why it is less OP than most people think it is) With around 8 million SP thrown into the whole scout affair, here is the most (pressing) concerns in my mind: MY "SOLID" EVIDENCE/CONCLUSIONS: What cloaking actually does (for the scout players out there and not the assaults/heavies saying its OP) is that it buys scouts an extra 1-2 seconds of extra time to get in real close to the enemy. It is not Harry Potter's invisible cape to run across the battlefield in. If you believe that you are for some reason invisible and can run headlong at an enemy, then you are mistaken. I've already seen several scouts attempt this, and trust me, it was not pretty. What it is actually useful for is flanking. When you go about flanking, you have two common concerns: a) Getting spotted before getting there. b) Getting spotted by an enemy who turns around. The cloak will buy you some time and excuse certain mistakes in both these situations. The first is obvious. It will make it harder for you to get spotted by a careless enemy. The second gives you 1-2 seconds to sneak up and shotgun/whatever the enemy. So in effect, it is a continuation of the Scout's role. A natural progression if you ask me. Equally pressing is the fact that scouts can no longer mass drive the living daylights out of unsuspecting enemies. They can shotgun, but that's not quite the same effect. So I really see no issue there. MY OPINION: Cloaking right now does make it a bit of a snafu when it comes to fittings, but that's fine. We make compromises for it. Right now, my proto caldari Scout has: 3 Complex Shields, 1 Precision Enhacing thing, 1 complex armor (or ferroscale depending) and a rep (or cardio boost). This thing is adequate at speed, but in effect has to be used quite conservatively even with the cloak. Clocking in at around 500 shield/armor (I can't remember the exact numbers) it is still very easily destroyed if not played carefully (guess who learnt that the hard way ). In fact, I find that the cloak isn't all that wondrous, but it does give the scout a new playstyle....so that it's not just a fast Assault suit. MY PROBLEMS WITH CLOAK: -The cloaked period is a little long, if anything I'm willing to take a 25% duration cut there for a PG/CPU usage reduction. -The shimmer doesn't vary with movement. This in and of itself is a nerf. I can be moving an inch/hour and still have that sill blue shimmer. You'd have to be blind to miss it...no kidding! -VERY HARD TO ACTIVATE WITH THE CONTROLLER.
keno trader FACTION WARFARE ARMY FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE 2	Posted - 2014.04.09 19:32:00 - [2] - Quote So...CPM vs. player and not a single piece of useful information yielded. Looks like...it's time to cloak my way past this argument. YEAAAAAAAAAAAAA Horatio, CSI Miami
keno trader FACTION WARFARE ARMY FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE 2	Posted - 2014.04.09 20:05:00 - [3] - Quote @Yan Darn...exactly. Why does the shotgun need a nerf...in fact giving the crappy handling on controller it really needed the buff that the cloaking gives it. The problem is...a lot people are being spaztastic about it...but let's consider the following situation. Scout sneaks up on a group of 4 with Shotgun/cloaking. It's not like he's annihilating the entire squad now. He's still just taking 1 player, just with more success and a higher chance of escape. That seems to be a major point that most don't understand. Cloaking is good, and... In all honesty...some dust players just need to man up and bite the bullet like players in other games do. Big triple A shooters have nerfs/changes all the time...and hours of work unlocking a certain weapon and its attachments can go to waste instantly. We just need stop being lame about it and just deal with it....ESPECIALLY WHEN IT ISN'T GAME BREAKING. Now...if CCP could properly rebalance everything with all the new content finally in the game and offer a total respec in weapons....that'd be nice.
keno trader FACTION WARFARE ARMY FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE 5	Posted - 2014.04.09 22:28:00 - [4] - Quote Clone D wrote: Playing against cloaked enemies is as fun as playing with redline snipers. They are so spineless that they still wait until you are hacking and sneak up behind you, cloaked, and then blam. Playing smart, not spineless. Besides...you know what is really spineless....brick tanking. Brick tankers need those bricks to help prop up their spines.
keno trader Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 26	Posted - 2014.04.11 23:35:00 - [5] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: Cloak helps bad players be decent players...period. There is no other piece of equipment, module, racial bonus, fit, etc. that does that. I don't know what needs to be done but something does need to be changed. I run the cloak myself and have some serious success. A success that I would not have had if I didn't run the cloak and ran normal scout. No, I am not a bad player but I am an average player that is now getting good to great player level results. There is a serious balance issue. not to mention that if you are brand new to the game and skill 1 point into cloak, 3 into light suits, and 3 into scout suits you will barely be able to have a complete fit if you pop on a basic cloak. If you only skill 1 into scout suits and 1 into cloak, you won't be able to fit the cloak AT ALL. So new players getting merc'd by cloaks can't even attempt to emulate it until they hit closer to 2 or 3 mil SP. There are problems with it. I just don't know what the fix should be. Personally, I think a strong start is to reduce the 15% reduction to CPU/PG usage to 7% and then change the cloak skill itself to 7% reduction per skill point. It takes a lot less skill points to get that 5 in the cloak skill then it does to go to level 5 in the scout suit. That means at 3 in the scout suit and having a 4 or 5 in the cloak skill makes having a cloak, if you are newer, much more viable early on. Not to mention that I will be proto min scout soon and only use the basic cloak. I have no need for anything above that. There is no incentive for me to use skill points there. Lol. Guess what else helps bad players turn into decent players. Armor tanking. Want to take that away too? I have no idea about you, but the cloak is literally useless if not utilized correctly. I suppose you're a good player if you're having serious success...or was that something you wanted us to say.
keno trader Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 27	Posted - 2014.04.11 23:57:00 - [6] - Quote I understand your predicament. Dust is not forgiving for new players, and there doesn't seem to be a fix anywhere in the near future. :(
keno trader Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 29	Posted - 2014.04.12 02:47:00 - [7] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Double Post, though in response to different point. @ Scouts, Bastards, Brothers Would it be too much if the cloak's reserve were drained when its user is hit by flux grenade? I can think of any number of scenarios wherein this one change would make things more interesting, for Scout and non-Scout alike. I can think of no scenario wherein it would render neutered every Scout in an area (i.e. old Active Scanners). The measure would address specific QQ scenarios (as in IWS's point defense scenario) while creating for us a new set of challenges and Scout-hunting opportunities. Please list for me the downsides as you see them. I'd like to explore and discuss counterpoints to this specific measure. Edit: This request has been forwarded via crosslink to the Barbershop. Bastard input and opinions are warmly welcomed. o7 Uh..sure? But if a scout gets hit by a grenade, the he/she is doing something SERIOUSLY wrong. Also...putting "bastard" in your post doesn't make it any funnier, cooler, or more civil.
keno trader Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 30	Posted - 2014.04.12 02:49:00 - [8] - Quote Yea, correction.
keno trader Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 30	Posted - 2014.04.12 02:58:00 - [9] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: He was referring to a certain group of scouts who go by the term Bastards. Think of it more like a pronoun. He meant no offense, and quite frankly, we enjoy our nickname. In that case, whatever works for you.
keno trader Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 36	Posted - 2014.04.12 19:00:00 - [10] - Quote If CCP wastes another patch fixing things, that would seriously be indicative of where this game is going --> nowhere. We need all the content out before balancing. *1.8* --- Still getting spawntrapped by boxes. *1.8* --- Smart deployment = letting a 2 year old handle spawns.