Clearly people want more definition with roles so I propose that Logis are sidearm only but to balance this assault lose their equipment slot.

This would define the two roles no matter how you look at it or dislike it.

PS logi since beta, I am amarr proto logi, please discuss this as sensibly as possible so its easier for CCP to sift out the logic and reason from bullsht.

Thank you.

Make more logi threads so we can fill the first page with them.

sidearm only should be some light frame variant

If you subtract 1 high and 1 low module for the two equipment modules that logi gets over assault (and adjust the cpu/pg accordingly for the reduction), then logi would be in a good place in my ignorant mind.

The high module count lets logis choose which 3 of the 5 stats that it wants to beat assaults in.



Also in the same breath, you can make the argument that assaults steal logi roles by having an equipment slot and between a group of assaults, logis may find limited work, so if you are willing to do that to logis, would you take away the equipment slot from assaults?



How many assaults would nerf logis under this agreement?

All we need are better bonuses for assaults and equipment bonuses for logis.

A reload bonus for assaults and the Gallente logi bonus becoming the general logi bonus would be so simple and amicable.

This sounds good.

There's no need to nerf hp , a logi needs it to do its work, if I had less HP by less slots I'd be unable to shrug off shots while trying to logi. The hp is not an issue, its the definition by weapons and equipment that needs looking at.

So?
General Assault 2% extra damage per level
Gallente Dunno, someone else can think of this...
Amarr Same Bounus as is currently
Caldari +5% Range on Rail and Missle Weaponry
Minmatar +5% per level clip size on projectile weapons

General Logi 5% reduction to Equipment PG and CPU usage per level
Gallente Scanner Bonus
Amarr Uplink Bonus
Caldari Nanohive/Injector Bonus
Minmatar RE/Reptool Bonus

Why not just a damage De-buff 10% less damage dealt by Logis?

I'm against losing my Assault MD because butthurt slayers fear me topping leader boards with it.

Did you know that 3 of every 4 creatures on earth is an insect?

You are now enlightened.

Clearly people want more definition with roles so I propose that Logis are sidearm only but to balance this assault lose their equipment slot.

This would define the two roles no matter how you look at it or dislike it.

PS logi since beta, I am amarr proto logi, please discuss this as sensibly as possible so its easier for CCP to sift out the logic and reason from bullsht.

Thank you.

Sidearm? Really? So you want me to defend my self and my +160k fully equiped dropsuit with a sidearm?! Think again

Sidearm? Really? So you want me to defend my self and my +160k fully equiped dropsuit with a sidearm?! Think again

I do it just fine with an ishukone smg , that's your lack of skill talking, not reason.

I do it just fine with an ishukone smg , that's your lack of skill talking, not reason.

Clearly people want more definition with roles so I propose that Logis are sidearm only but to balance this assault lose their equipment slot.

This would define the two roles no matter how you look at it or dislike it.

PS logi since beta, I am amarr proto logi, please discuss this as sensibly as possible so its easier for CCP to sift out the logic and reason from bullsht.

Thank you.

Lol at defending yourself at over 20 meters with a SMG. The side-arm would only put Logis in CQC situations, and they shouldn't be in those situations in the first place.

Look the Logi isn't a heal slave. I thought we've been over this crappy idea countless times, and it was shot-down every single time.

Okay...

You're right

I'm wrong

...you win.

Get him a cookie.

I don't want to keep seeing HP tanked Logis so this is better:

PRO Cal Logi - 3 High, 2 Low
PRO Min Logi - 4 High, 2 Low (didn't want 1 Low on any so I gave this a 2...)
PRO Gal Logi - 2 High, 3 Low
PRO Amarr Logi - 3 High, 3 Low

Assaults keep their equipment, it's mandatory.

Okay.
I'me going to say WHAT meant to be as a Logi.

Logi are too powerful because of 2 things :

-Assholes who don't fit equipement and get a full rack of complex mods.
-Lot of PG/CPU used by mods and not by equipements as intended.

So that's pretty simple.

EVERY equipements slot MUST be fitted. CCP must block the fit if one equipement slot is empty (like when you don't have a weapon fitted)

Battle logi will take Amarr or caldari (3 slot only in proto)
Support logi will take minimatarr/allente (4slot)

At least 20% of the PG/CPU MUST be used for equipement

No basic equipement (3 basic reppers that use nothing is PG/CPU) as a proto.
You want a lot of PG/CPU to fit every mods you want ? Go **** yourself and play as a real LOGI or get the **** out.





With these two really simple thing we're gonna have balanced Logi.
Like this post make than the Dev see it.
It will balance everything.
Don't need a assault buff or a too big Logi Nerf. It's gonna break the game nothing else.
With my proposal it will make Logi using his power as intended.

I'm off to actually play dust now.

I do like the equipment being filled idea but forcing anyone to have to do that will do more harm than good in a game that promotes suit customisation.

This has nothing to do with balabce , you have just expressed that you want a logi HP nerf lol.

Attributes are what defines a role, not the fact a fit has a bit more HP than the other.

Sure, we should just make every Logi carry an Ishukone SMG instead Much better compromise. Please.

What's the problem with my idea ? Say it like that i could get it better.
You know the Secondary only is the worse thing possible.
Logi is not supposed to be CQC and secondary are only CQC so...

Who said logi's aren't supposed to be CQC or that scouts are only supposed to be snipers or that any role is SUPPOSED to be anything. One of the few things that does set Dust apart at the moment is you can take a suit and fit it to your polaystyle. Some match with certain playstyles than others, but the freedom to do what you want instead of sticking you into a predetermined role is one of the few things we Dusters have going for us and people want to f*ck that up!

So it's ok for Logi to have comparable HP (or more) than an Assault while also having many equipment slots, yep totally makes sense.

Yep. It does make sense. Obviously you think that just because you wear an assault suit, everything you look at should die. Get off your high horse.

So it's ok for Logi to have comparable HP (or more) than an Assault while also having many equipment slots, yep totally makes sense.

What's the problem with my idea ? Say it like that i could get it better.
You know the Secondary only is the worse thing possible.
Logi is not supposed to be CQC and secondary are only CQC so...

Don't rage too hard.

I was being sarcastic about the SMG...because the other guy thinks sidearms only is a solution. It isn't. There is no solution because there is no problem.

All people need to do is a little bit of math. Considering two players are skilled to level 5 in all categories....a fully tanked Assault Suit and a fully tanked Logi Suit of the same race are only separated by a few AR rounds worth of HP. It is such a stupid argument over a couple a well placed shots.

Chances are you are dead because someone got the drop on you...even for a second. It is enough to make the difference between you being dead and you being alive...all else being equal. If someone wants to take a Logi suit and make into an offensive platform then fine, let them. It is a dumb move. The role/race bonuses of the Assault suits are much better geared toward 'slayer' type of play. If they just did a little research then they could find an Assault racial variant that would fit their playstyle better than any Logi suit available.

So let them be 'Assault' Logi's until the heart's content. They are only gimping themselves. And gimps are easy to kill, all day long.

I'm a Minmater Logi with over 20 million Skill Points. I can build a tanked suit with over 800 HP and Proto AR and I still get dropped like a hot rock all the time. I am an average player. As are most people out there. You are not getting beat by the suit...you're getting beat by the player. People need to accept that there is always someone out there better than you and quit pissing and whining about Logi this and Logi that. No amount of HP is gonna save you.

Oh you, Assault is to be an offensive player, Logi at this moment is being treated as superior Officer Assault and not strictly support. Want me to tell you the stats on the Balac's Modified Assault CK.0? It's actually inferior to most Logi...

That's exactly why we dont see eye to eye about the sidearm only, because your an average player.

Obviously missed where I stated to balance logis only get a sidearm but assault loses its equipment slot thus defining roles and encouraging teamwork.

I'm a Minmater Logi with over 20 million Skill Points. I can build a tanked suit with over 900 HP and Proto AR and I still get dropped like a hot rock all the time. I am an average player. As are most people out there. You are not getting beat by the suit...you're getting beat by the player. People need to accept that there is always someone out there better than you and quit pissing and whining about Logi this and Logi that. No amount of HP is gonna save you.

^This guy. I just want to muss his hair and pinch his cheeks. He's just so cunnin'

seriously you should try using an isjukone assault smg with prof 5, it's amazing.

Obviously does not understand that most random players hardly use nanohives in pub matches when needed, are not able to stay alive, or even put ammo it in a good location. The lack of equipment means that if my Logi guys sucks, then I'll end up dead soon for lack of ammo (Officer Gear is hard to get you know). Also, all snipers would then have to be Logis.

Stop saying sh*t only sidearm is the worse idea i ever saw.

I have over 300 officer items from beta, still waiting on something worthwhile to use them for. If the game was balanced in respect to player inability it would be pretty sht wouldn't it.

Do you run solo because thats the only time what you stated would even be an issue.

Okay i'm tired to see a lot of topic who wants to get down the logi but give some crappy ideas (only secondary weapon or other sh*t What? ).
Or frustrated assault who want MOOOOOORE power again Roll
So there's a SIMPLE solution to not getting down the Logi power BUT to make the logi using his power as intended.
This will make Logi still competitive but not overpowered or better than assault.

Logi are too powerful because of 2 things :

-A*sholes who don't fit equipement and get a full rack of complex mods.
-Lot of PG/CPU used by mods and not by equipements as intended.

Quote:
So that's pretty simple.


EVERY equipements slot MUST be fitted. CCP must block the fit if one equipement slot is empty (like when you don't have a weapon fitted the fit is "Not Valid")

Battle logi will take Amarr or Caldari (3 slot only in proto)
Support logi will take Minmatarr/Gallente (4slot)

At least 20% of the PG/CPU MUST be used for equipement

No basic equipement (3 basic reppers that use nothing is PG/CPU) as a proto.
You want a lot of PG/CPU to fit every mods you want ? Go away. Play as a real LOGI or get the fu*k out.





With these two really simple thing we're gonna have balanced Logi. Blink
Logi will be still competitive (Versatile with high Slots/PG/CPU and lot of equipement slot). Attention
BUT will use it to help his teamates and still be an effective combat unit. (Not an extroardinary soldier) Cool

Like this post make than the Dev see it. Idea
It will balance everything.
Logi who already play as intended will not be nerfed and Logi who use their fit as not as intended will be nerf.
It's perfect isn't ? (I'm a 14Millions SP logi i know what i'm talking about. Blink )
Don't need a assault buff or a too big Logi Nerf. It's gonna break the game nothing else.
You must admit i found a great solution. (Honestly with objectivity.)
Now please react to it give your opinion (A real opinion not whining people or little kids who just want to cry.)
Make this thread got support make it getting up to the Dev or at least to a CPM....

You are wrong you can't say there's not any problem with logi.
My battle suit is actually.
Freedom Mass driver.
Viziam scrambler pistol.
And 962eHp
It's madness.
The problem is we do the same than assault but better and we do more.

But assualt is not the problem they are fine.

The problem is HOW the Logi power is used.
It's really often use for himself (Armor plates / Shield extenders / damage mods etcetc) and not for equipements this is a problem.

Go check the llink i send before.

RydogV go check my previous idea.

(About equipements)

I'll agree to this, this is the best thought out idea so far I think.

Compact hives are easy to fit.

Compact hives are easy to fit.

I did. I get it. In fact I am pretty sure I made similar suggestions in the past.

Mandatory equipment. Sidearm Only. Less Slots. Less CPU/PG.

It has all been suggested before...dozens of times...month after month...round and round and round we go.

But the truth is the greatness of 'Assault' Logi is a myth. It is not real. Build me any 'Assault' Logistics fit and I will build you a regular Assault fitting that is within a few AR rounds in HP or better.

Yeah though about that but it's better than nothing.

I still think sidearm only is viable, assault losing equipment slot is fine because that alone would define roles and encourage teamplay more but obviously people care more for their own experience than overall gameplay so to me as it stands mordecai has the best idea.

Yes you're right but no one has ever got MY idea in fact.

Only have obligatoiry equipements is not enough

at least 20% of your PG/CPU MUST be used in equipements slots and are Locked in equipements (can't be used in other slots)

This is exactly the idea we waited for.
Nerfing Logi who not play logi and no change for real logi what else ?

Thanks !
But DON'T forget they also must fit AT LEAST 20% of their PG/CPU in equipement slot !!!!!!
20% of their PG/CPU will be locked and will be used ONLY in the equipement slot !!!
So they'll can't fit 3compact hives it will WONT work !!


In fact the center of my idea is not the obligatory equipement.
It's the 20% of PG/CPU locked in equipements slot.

Hey Brotha'...I dig your passion. I am a 'True Logi' through and through so it's no skin off my nose. If your idea gets picked up then I will be happy for you.

Personally, I see it as low priority and would rather have the dev resources focus on the ump-teen other issues that need to be fixed first. But keep hollering man...maybe, just maybe they will listen

Okay i'm tired to see a lot of topic who wants to get down the logi but give some crappy ideas (only secondary weapon or other sh*t What? ).
Or frustrated assault who want MOOOOOORE power again Roll
So there's a SIMPLE solution to not getting down the Logi power BUT to make the logi using his power as intended.
This will make Logi still competitive but not overpowered or better than assault.

Logi are too powerful because of 2 things :

-A*sholes who don't fit equipement and get a full rack of complex mods.
-Lot of PG/CPU used by mods and not by equipements as intended.

Quote:
So that's pretty simple.


EVERY equipements slot MUST be fitted. CCP must block the fit if one equipement slot is empty (like when you don't have a weapon fitted the fit is "Not Valid")

Battle logi will take Amarr or Caldari (3 slot only in proto)
Support logi will take Minmatarr/Gallente (4slot)

At least 20% of the PG/CPU MUST be used for equipement

No basic equipement (3 basic reppers that use nothing is PG/CPU) as a proto.
You want a lot of PG/CPU to fit every mods you want ? Go away. Play as a real LOGI or get the fu*k out.





With these two really simple thing we're gonna have balanced Logi. Blink
Logi will be still competitive (Versatile with high Slots/PG/CPU and lot of equipement slot). Attention
BUT will use it to help his teamates and still be an effective combat unit. (Not an extroardinary soldier) Cool

Like this post make than the Dev see it. Idea
It will balance everything.
Logi who already play as intended will not be nerfed and Logi who use their fit as not as intended will be nerf.
It's perfect isn't ? (I'm a 14Millions SP logi i know what i'm talking about. Blink )
Don't need a assault buff or a too big Logi Nerf. It's gonna break the game nothing else.
You must admit i found a great solution. (Honestly with objectivity.)
Now please react to it give your opinion (A real opinion not whining people or little kids who just want to cry.)
Make this thread got support make it getting up to the Dev or at least to a CPM....

Thanks !
But DON'T forget they also must fit AT LEAST 20% of their PG/CPU in equipement slot !!!!!!
20% of their PG/CPU will be locked and will be used ONLY in the equipement slot !!!
So they'll can't fit 3compact hives it will WONT work !!


In fact the center of my idea is not the obligatory equipement.
It's the 20% of PG/CPU locked in equipements slot.

I'm going to bump this up.

Clearly people want more definition with roles so I propose that Logis are sidearm only but to balance this assault lose their equipment slot.

This would define the two roles no matter how you look at it or dislike it.

PS logi since beta, I am amarr proto logi, please discuss this as sensibly as possible so its easier for CCP to sift out the logic and reason from bullsht.

Thank you.

No.

Thanks again i'm glad to see that some people still "intelligent" in this forum
Just add a little change the 20% will not be in the Max PG/CPU but on the PG/CPU that is used.
Go check my thread in "General discussions" i change it.

In fact it just change that :
At least 20% of the PG/CPU MUST be used for equipement

To that :
At least 20% of the used PG/CPU MUST be used for equipement

Actually yes, you just don't like it, that's fine.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=117209&find=unread


Please guys read it and "Feed it" bump it i mean it must be said to the DEV.

The sidearm only is not a good idea.
Assault lose their equipement slot ? meh they don't give a f*ck...
Logi lose their weapon ? holy sh*t ! In 3 days w'll never see again a Logi

Okay i'm tired to see a lot of topic who wants to get down the logi but give some crappy ideas (only secondary weapon or other sh*t ).
Or frustrated assault who want MOOOOOORE power again
So there's a SIMPLE solution to not getting down the Logi power BUT to make the logi using his power as intended.
This will make Logi still competitive but not overpowered or better than assault.

Logi are too powerful because of 2 things :

-A*sholes who don't fit equipement and get a full rack of complex mods.
-Lot of PG/CPU used by mods and not by equipements as intended.



EVERY equipements slot MUST be fitted. CCP must block the fit if one equipement slot is empty (like when you don't have a weapon fitted the fit is "Not Valid")

Battle logi will take Amarr or Caldari (3 slot only in proto)
Support logi will take Minmatarr/Gallente (4slot)

At least 20% of the used PG/CPU MUST be used for equipement

No basic equipement (3 basic reppers that use nothing is PG/CPU) as a proto.
You want a lot of PG/CPU to fit every mods you want ? Go away. Play as a real LOGI or get the fu*k out.





With these two really simple thing we're gonna have balanced Logi.
Logi will be still competitive (Versatile with high Slots/PG/CPU and lot of equipement slot).
BUT will use it to help his teamates and still be an effective combat unit. (Not an extroardinary soldier)

Like this post make than the Dev see it.
It will balance everything.
Logi who already play as intended will not be nerfed and Logi who use their fit as not as intended will be nerf.
It's perfect isn't ? (I'm a 14Millions SP logi i know what i'm talking about. )
Don't need a assault buff or a too big Logi Nerf. It's gonna break the game nothing else.
You must admit i found a great solution. (Honestly with objectivity.)
Now please react to it give your opinion (A real opinion not whining people or little kids who just want to cry.)
Make this thread got support make it getting up to the Dev or at least to a CPM....

So logi could play ONLY with SMG ishukone ? that's.... pretty restrictive don't you think :/

No, noone said that.

Even restricting logis to only 3 weapons is insane. Mordecai's idea wouldn't affect the logis that no one complains about, and would make life harder for the equipment spammers and people that abuse the Logi suit. His idea would stop people from complaining about logis. It would allow the real logibros to be logibros, while defining the role more. All without any real nerf. I fully support his idea.

So logi could play ONLY with SMG ishukone ? that's.... pretty restrictive don't you think :/

Even restricting logis to only 3 weapons is insane. Mordecai's idea wouldn't affect the logis that no one complains about, and would make life harder for the equipment spammers and people that abuse the Logi suit. His idea would stop people from complaining about logis. It would allow the real logibros to be logibros, while defining the role more. All without any real nerf. I fully support his idea.

I use Gal logi quite a bit. I like the equipment fitting bonus, it makes sense with the three slots you get.

I was looking at some of the other bonuses and the Amarr armor local rep seems silly. So does the Minmatar hacking bonus. The Caldari shield regulator bonus makes it more of an assault suit.

If I could change the bonuses, I would make them:

* Gallente: Equipment fitting (stays same)

* Amarr: Armor rep amount bonus (like a miniature Guardian - Amarr logi ship in EVE )

* Minmatar: Bonus to remote explosive damage (move hacking bonus to Caldari scout)

* Caldari: Bonus to those future portable shield bubbles (making it the choice for medic role)

Me myself would use dual scramblre pistols with amarr logi. AND there are still sidearms to come, ion pistol, mac sec smg's,,,etc...

Cool, and I believe a real logi bro like myself is still effective with a sidearm because I am, it wouldn't just be that but assault would also lose their equipment slot, this way both roles are dependant on eachother but I also think mordecais idea is good and have been bumping it, try reading a thread before commenting,

Even restricting logis to only 3 weapons is insane. Mordecai's idea wouldn't affect the logis that no one complains about, and would make life harder for the equipment spammers and people that abuse the Logi suit. His idea would stop people from complaining about logis. It would allow the real logibros to be logibros, while defining the role more. All without any real nerf. I fully support his idea.

Look the thing is; med frames dont sacrifice anything in exchange for their preformance.
Light frames sacrifice HP for speed an dampening.Heavies sacrifice Speed and dampening for Heavy weapons and HP. What do Logis sacrifice? dont get me wrong i use logi on regular basis...but what do they sacrifice? Nothing.

High amount of slots and PG/CPU fix any downfall the logis might have. ME , being an assault and logi wouldnt mind sidearm only logis and equipless assaults:

GÖª Scouts: more speed and dampening,EQ slots at the exchange of HP
GÖª Heavies: Heavy weapon and HP in exchange for Speed and Dampening
GÖª Assaults: Good HP and mobility at the exchange of not having an equipment slot.
GÖª Logis: Good HP and adaptability , also multiple equipment slot at the expense of only being able to equip sidearms.

This way,everybody has a weakness. Im not saying this IS the way to go,just saying i see how it would balance the game.

I too can do just fine with an SMG, I've been using just an SMG all day.
Im going to be honest here, I like Plasma Cannons and ScRs too much. I won't stand to let them get taken away from me because Assaults are crying for a nerf.

Look the thing is; med frames dont sacrifice anything in exchange for their preformance.
Light frames sacrifice HP for speed an dampening.Heavies sacrifice Speed and dampening for Heavy weapons and HP. What do Logis sacrifice? dont get me wrong i use logi on regular basis...but what do they sacrifice? Nothing.

High amount of slots and PG/CPU fix any downfall the logis might have. ME , being an assault and logi wouldnt mind sidearm only logis and equipless assaults:

GÖª Scouts: more speed and dampening,EQ slots at the exchange of HP
GÖª Heavies: Heavy weapon and HP in exchange for Speed and Dampening
GÖª Assaults: Good HP and mobility at the exchange of not having an equipment slot.
GÖª Logis: Good HP and adaptability , also multiple equipment slot at the expense of only being able to equip sidearms.

This way,everybody has a weakness. Im not saying this IS the way to go,just saying i see how it would balance the game.

@ Mordecai Sanguine:
Breach scrambler pistol + burst S.P
Assault Sp + burst Sp

Both combinations have been effective in various situations...

The balance would be assault loses its equipment making both more dependant on eachother, defining both roles better and encouraging team work, noone likes this though so people will whine forever about logi hp and fake logis.

It's not balanced.
Assault don't really give a f*ck about their slot.
In combat it will not changing anything for him.
For him the changement will be secondary.

For the logi who lose 90% of his firepower it will be the end.
It will became an heal slave who can't survive without other people.
While assault can still do his job.

The balance would be assault loses its equipment making both more dependant on eachother, defining both roles better and encouraging team work, noone likes this though so people will whine forever about logi hp and fake logis.

It's not balanced.
Assault don't really give a f*ck about their slot.
In combat it will not changing anything for him.
For him the changement will be secondary.

For the logi who lose 90% of his firepower it will be the end.
It will became an heal slave who can't survive without other people.
While assault can still do his job.

Your idea sound like a nerf to logis, real and fake, with a "nerf" to assaults so they are "balanced". A light weapon slot is worth a lot more than an equipment slot.

I use a sidearm on it's own and I can assure you its good enough, I'm not Just a heal slave at all

So you have completely missed how this would encourage more teamwork. Ok understood.

Even.
Assault don't give a f*ck about their logi.
In fact Logi is yellow and always shot in first place.
What you want is the Logi as a human shield for assault.

Assault will NEVER protect his Logi and even if he tried the logi will be shot first.

It will encourage teamwork ONLY for the Logi because without he can't even survive.....
For the assault...Meh who cares ?

I know it would encourage teamwork. But that isn't the issue, there is enough teamwork as is. The issue is that people are abusing logistics suits to get stats similar to assault suits. Mordecai's idea would greatly help prevent that.

How many assaults would care that their Equipment slot was gone with all the free Logi kills they would be getting? Because I can tell you pretty much every Logi would care that they don't have a light weapon anymore. Your idea is heavily in favor of assaults, by a wide margin.

I know you have a good intention but stop having ideas about "weapon restriction".
Logis are not slave or human shield or free kill for assault don't forget it....

Assaults run out of ammo very quick, they need uplinks, revives and healing, I can assure you that you are wrong.

I know you have a good intention but stop having ideas about "weapon restriction".
Logis are not slave or human shield or free kill for assault don't forget it....

Assaults run out of ammo very quick, they need uplinks, revives and healing, I can assure you that you are wrong.

I doesn't change the fact than Logi will not survive to help the assault.
So anyway the logi will be dead and couldn't help the assault.

Even if one day the assault and the Logi play as teamwork as you think (It will be NEVER).
The logi is always shot in first and will never survive with secondary weapon or will be about to die.
So he's dead and can't help OR he needs help so he will need a Logi to help the logi

they best consider a respec with any changes like this, would sure hate the lose the 3mil + I've dumped into ar skills.

I manage to lay nano hives, uplinks and rep players while still getting my fair share of kills. The problem isn't the suit, its the people in them. Nerf the suit? No, that won't fix anything. Your idea is just ridiculous.

Im going to be honest now, I think you must not be that good a player, and you cant tell people to stop voicing their opinion, you are not ccp.

Do you really want every logi to run around with Ishukone SMGs? Those things are better than ARs.

Do you really want every logi to run around with Ishukone SMGs? Those things are better than ARs.

Yes and I do exactly the same with a sidearm so no it's not ridiculous.

I wasn't serious when i said to stop saying ideas huh just a joke. (but the ) didn't work .

I'm 14 Millions SP.
Always been a Logistics since 9 months.
In chromosome i was with proto equipments but a simple Burst assault rifle..... (then mass driver).
Always here to help don't matter how much firepower i have.

So in fact i'm this kind of player you want with your idea of only "sidearms".
But i'm honest with you there's really too less people like "us" to be a viable choice.
Be honest how much people do you think will stay Logistics after that ? 5-10% ?
1 Logi for 10 players ?
It will be making Logi like Heavy.
Really Rare 1 every 10 soldier.

Bro. Logi is my main suit.
Im an Amarr logi 1st
I use Dual Scrambler Pistols and mantain my 3 K-D ratio pretty nicely.
When i get pwnd , i just put on a Gek and Be OP mode.

Im not talking out of my a** here.
I know the advantage i have while wearing my Logi suit. All the advantages none of the disadvantages.If i dont like something about the suit, pling! Module and its fixed.
Its so adaptable that i can Run as a scout, with lower profile dampening and 600 HP.
Or tank (At ADV level) all the way up to 900HP for 35k ISK. Or i can stack Damage mods (3) and Armor tank for 680 HP and a Lot of firepower...etc..
Logis at proto level outlast heavies,have more firepower than assaults,can run faster than scouts,etc///

Every suit needs a downfall.

1)Logis DONT have disadvantages
2)The only disadvantage an Assault has; Its that its not a Logi....

''Assaults run out of ammo very quick, they need uplinks, revives and healing, I can assure you that you are wrong.''
Yeah,thats what the logi will be there for...

Do you really want every logi to run around with Ishukone SMGs? Those things are better than ARs.

With Mordecai's suggestion. Logis would have a disadvantage. Nobody cares if you can get a 3 kdr, most people wouldn't be able to get more that 1-2 kills a match if they were restricted to sidearms, much less get a 3.0 kdr. With your and Tech's idea, logis would be used because someone has to be an equipment slave in the squad, not because someone wants to help the team.

Bro. Logi is my main suit.
Im an Amarr logi 1st
I use Dual Scrambler Pistols and mantain my 3 K-D ratio pretty nicely.
When i get pwnd , i just put on a Gek and Be OP mode.

Im not talking out of my a** here.
I know the advantage i have while wearing my Logi suit. All the advantages none of the disadvantages.If i dont like something about the suit, pling! Module and its fixed.
Its so adaptable that i can Run as a scout, with lower profile dampening and 600 HP.
Or tank (At ADV level) all the way up to 900HP for 35k ISK. Or i can stack Damage mods (3) and Armor tank for 680 HP and a Lot of firepower...etc..
Logis at proto level outlast heavies,have more firepower than assaults,can run faster than scouts,etc///

Every suit needs a downfall.

1)Logis DONT have disadvantages
2)The only disadvantage an Assault has; Its that its not a Logi....

''Assaults run out of ammo very quick, they need uplinks, revives and healing, I can assure you that you are wrong.''
Yeah,thats what the logi will be there for...

If they are restricted to use their Pg/CPU as i said in Equipements it will be balanced.
Everybody have a disadvantages ONLY when they got advantages don't you think ?
Anyway restrict Logis weapon will nerf real logi AND the logi who set the problem.
So....too much "collateral damage" don't you think ?

On the otherhand sorry if was...bad with you when i answer you.
It wasn't the purpose.
But dude be honest when you spend 9 months about playing something you don't want to be fuc*ed up like this.
You're good with 2 scrambler ?
Good i'm really good with only one.
But when you will be with only one pistol.
Reloading everytime.
Out of ammo evry 2 minutes.
Consume all the hives for yourself because secondary are low capacity you will see.

M twiggz you are entitled to assume bull sht, smg rapes and I'm not proposing a nerf, I'm proposing balance but obviously scrubs like you would call it a nerf.

I'll go through it again, logi has sidearm only but assault loses its equipment elite thus making teamwork more important, it's really that simple and I can't make it any simpler lol

Dont get mad at me bro, i did not create the thread.

Im just saying , OVERALL, Logis need balance. They have no disadvantages.
Even if is this idea , or something else, they CANNOT stay as they are...thats all. :3

Extra note: I dont see ANYTHING bad whith what you say.a good logi would be priceless for any team,if they became rare and still abl to get kills, just saying; Instead of 6 men Gall/Minma Logis proto squads with duvolles and scanners....

That's the whole point of the flexibility of the logi suit. Of course, making those same changes to the other suits should outdo them on the logi. Adding shields or armor to either an assault or heavy should overmatch adding the same amount to the logi. Adding damage is the same all around. Scouts are faster at base level, so adding speed to a scout should make it faster than adding the same speed to the logi. The logi is supposed to be the adaptable suit. It just shouldn't do any other specialty as well as the specialized suits.

Well if they restrict the CPU-PG use wouldnt it be AS BAD as just using sidearms?

I mean i do know i WOuld prefer to run 2 scrambler pistols and 900 HP Logi with scanner and nanos,than a 550 HP logi at proto level with full equipment and GEK because i have a CPU-RESTRICTION......just saying ...

How exactly would this restriction work?

Well if they restrict the CPU-PG use wouldnt it be AS BAD as just using sidearms?

I mean i do know i WOuld prefer to run 2 scrambler pistols and 900 HP Logi with scanner and nanos,than a 550 HP logi at proto level with full equipment and GEK because i have a CPU-RESTRICTION......just saying ...

How exactly would this restriction work?

Well i'm gonna make a list about Logi disadvantages. :


1-Price an well fitted Logi is about 140.000 ISK.
All logi suits cost and equipement cost a lot.
Really hard to make some "rentable" suit.
In proto it's almost impossible.

Is weakier in :
2-Shield.
3-Armor.
4-Shield delay.
5-Slower.
6-Making it not having a big disadvantage but little everywhere making it in overall weakier.

7-He's yellow and always targeted first because the ennemy know his power for his teamate if alive.

1-Any player with more than 6 months i Dust can afford paying for this on daily basis. I do really well and i only use ADV suits.
2-The least a Proto Logi has is 3 High power slots. THats +217.8 Shields. Module Fixable
3-The Least any Proto Logi has is 4 low slots. With the advantage of not having to use a REPAIR module to repair their armor, ANY Logi can , with simply 4 enh armor plates, HAve AT LEAST +484 Armor. Module fixable.
4-Logi shield delay is , in MANY cases,better than commandos,Heavies,Most assaults.
5-The Minmatar logi runs faster than ALL assault suits except the minmatar assault. My Amarr Logi (The Slowest of them all) Runs at 7.55 with 1 complex Kin cat. Module Fixable.
6-They have the most slots and CPU-PG, combat wise, the logi is the best suit for the ability to adapt itself to any sitaution and excel where other suits should excel.
7-Logis are targeted first because thay are the most powerful suit,not because they are yellow. If Logis were balanced EVERYBODY would shoot a scout or a Heavy first.

At this point, wouldn't it be easier just to buff assault bonuses? Minmatar and Amarr racials are spot on, Gallente could use more PG, Caldari could use more CPU and bonuses for all the assault suits that help their primary tanking type like plate efficacy for amarr, movement penalty/fitting reduction for Gallente, and maybe shield recharge delay for Minmatar. This whole "nerf this because this sucks" approach doesn't make any sense. It's like saying "nerf every other weapon because the plasma cannon sucks."

All we need are better bonuses for assaults and equipment bonuses for logis.

A reload bonus for assaults and the Gallente logi bonus becoming the general logi bonus would be so simple and amicable.

Although I enjoy rofl stomping with my amarr logi I care far more about balance and role definition over my ability to pwn going down only slightly, im not saying my suggestion is the best but it would avoid a slot or hp nerf.

At this point, wouldn't it be easier just to buff assault bonuses?"

Even just swapping the shield recharge delays around would be a big step I think.

THe problem does not rely only with assaults.
The Logis are better assaults, but are also better heavies and better scouts.
Tell me ANY job in this game and i'll let you know how a Logi could out do the specified job better than the dropsuit ''DESIGNED'' to do that job.

This would need a LArge Profile dampening and Speed bonus to scouts, A Heavy HP increase to heavies and an innate Damage per level bonus for assaults. (not having to depend on Cx Dam Mods would be the ultimate advantage for ''killers'')..

So...WEll i mean i wouldnt mind THIS either, but the fact is that logis need fix, however is done...

I mean as an assault,having to use the Logi because its better than the assault or a scout its just ridiculous XD

It wouldn't, people would just fit 3 equipment for themself and carry on and the hp nerf or slot nerf threads would just carry on, sidearm only would solve everything, the logi would become the support class its supposed to be without our slots or hp being touched.

As long as shield regulators get a buff.

As long as shield regulators get a buff.

I use Gal logi quite a bit. I like the equipment fitting bonus, it makes sense with the three slots you get.

I was looking at some of the other bonuses and the Amarr armor local rep seems silly. So does the Minmatar hacking bonus. The Caldari shield regulator bonus makes it more of an assault suit.

If I could change the bonuses, I would make them:

* Gallente: Equipment fitting (stays same)

* Amarr: Armor rep amount bonus (like a miniature Guardian - Amarr logi ship in EVE )

* Minmatar: Bonus to remote explosive damage (move hacking bonus to Caldari scout)

* Caldari: Bonus to those future portable shield bubbles (making it the choice for medic role)

Also, I see more Minmatar and Caldari assaults with shotguns than logis. You can't blame everything on the banana men.

No, your bonuses would preclude alternative equipment, you have locked logis into a specific item. That is unacceptable. Bonuses should be universal in their scope. Gallente: fit, Amarr: repair, Min: hack, Caldari: shields. This is also a comment on the current bonuses. Requireing a suit to use a specific weapon, or module in order to be effective is not a good bonus in my opinion.

Gall, ok. Min, ok, but the other bonuses could change - same for the assaults.

None applicable:
The fact you see more of something does not prove it cannot be done otherwise better:

1 Cx Kin cats
1 Enh Cardiac Reg
2 Enh Prof Dampners
3-4 Cx Shield extenders
Shotgun of preference + ADV SCanner

This is a Minmatar Logi / Proto suit. AKA the Sout v.2.0

Now this is a ''scout'' with
5 Armor repair rate
@ 8.2 Sprint speed
CAnnot be picked up by ADV active scanners
Have scanning capabilities.
A minimum of 25% Hacking bonus speed
WITHOUT Passive bonuses: 150 Armor and 380 shields.Total 530 HP
Possibly Nanohives to replenish.

Now tell my my friend, what scout OR assault an do all that at the same time....
Is it more expensive? Hell yeah.Do i or anyone with over 50mill care? hell no...

This isn't a problem with Logi suits though... The problem here is that scout suits suck. An assault can be a better scout than a scout as well, does that mean we should take a light weapon slot way from assaults and nerf their speed so they can't be shotgun asscouts? No. It means scouts need a buff.

None applicable:
The fact you see more of something does not prove it cannot be done otherwise better:

1 Cx Kin cats
1 Enh Cardiac Reg
2 Enh Prof Dampners
3-4 Cx Shield extenders
Shotgun of preference + ADV SCanner

This is a Minmatar Logi / Proto suit. AKA the Sout v.2.0

Now this is a ''scout'' with
5 Armor repair rate
@ 8.2 Sprint speed
CAnnot be picked up by ADV active scanners
Have scanning capabilities.
A minimum of 25% Hacking bonus speed
WITHOUT Passive bonuses: 150 Armor and 380 shields.Total 530 HP
Possibly Nanohives to replenish.

Now tell my my friend, what scout OR assault an do all that at the same time....
Is it more expensive? Hell yeah.Do i or anyone with over 50mill ISK cares? hell no...

a Scout could only DREAM of doing all that and the only real 2 advantages they have are smaller hitbox and a sidearm.
L A M E

AGreed,but what kind of buff do you propose, one that DENIES Logis from being better scouts than scouts? Because,no offense, you people are good at bashing our ideas but dont come out with good ideas of your own.

So tell be bro Fizzer, what to do so a scout can never be outdone in its job by a logi.

Enlighten me.

So instead of suggesting a way for scouts to have something like that, (possibly through biotics fitting reductions) you'd rather nobody have it because you can't? Brb, requesting to nerf all other weapons because the plasma cannon sucks.

AGreed,but what kind of buff do you propose, one that DENIES Logis from being better scouts than scouts? Because,no offense, you people are good at bashing our ideas but dont come out with good ideas of your own.

So tell be bro Fizzer, what to do so a scout can never be outdone in its job by a logi.

Enlighten me.

That's you're territory- you play scout, we don't.

Clearly people want more definition with roles so I propose that Logis are sidearm only but to balance this assault lose their equipment slot.

This would define the two roles no matter how you look at it or dislike it.

PS logi since beta, I am amarr proto logi, please discuss this as sensibly as possible so its easier for CCP to sift out the logic and reason from bullsht.

Thank you.