How do bonuses preclude alternate equipment? My proposal gives each race a small edge in one area, much like bonuses work in EVE.

In DUST, you could get an idea as to what an enemy logi has equipped to take advantage of that bonus. An Amarr logi would likely have a repper, Minmatar remote explosives, etc... I think that would add to the experience.

So what!? So what if some people are using Logi suits as assault suits, heavies as snipers, or minmatar assaults as beefier scouts? This is not a case like the caldari logi/tac ar that was obviously superior to everything else and needed nerfing. I think I am a proper logi bro, I carry advanced equipment at the minimum, but I also carry at least an adv weapon if not proto and I use proto shield and armor so I can survive and yes even kill the enemy. However, I'm not going to begrudge anyone their choice of using a logi suit however they choose. I personally find caldari logi's that are tanked and running around with shotguns trying to get everyone in CQC annoying, but they are still certainly killable.

To me these balance logi threads reeks of people trying to force their preconceived notions of what each suit should be onto everyone else.

LOL you guys may be debating, I'm ranting. I'm still even trying to see where this logi problem stems from. Have I missed it where everyone on the field is a logi or something? There are still plenty of assaults, scouts, and fewer but still there are heavies.

All these threads seem like they began with the notion that a logi should not be able to defeat any other suit 1 on 1 and that they must only be able to heal and generally play ***** to all the other suits and I'm sorry but that is just BS and is not the "intended" role for the suit.

a Logi can equip 4 Cx Kinetic Catalizers.

Now tell me how is a scout going to move THAT fast?
The Gal Scout doesnt have the CPU/PG to sustain that (Plus compared to hte Minmatar logi he would only run +0.04 )
The Minmatar logi only has 2 slots.

More slots + CPU+ PG= True power.


On other notes im not saying Logis with sidearm ONLY and Assault without equipment is the only way to go, i just see how it could balance the game.
If people dont like that idea, im always happy to read ideas about the issue.

For example. i wouldnt mind a SLOT reduction on Logi suits.....Say -1 slot? I mean they would be at 7 slots (Exept for Cal logi at 8) same as Assaults ; BOTH are Mid frames, the Logi trades Sidearm for more equipment slots.

Lol, so are you going to add anything of relevance or just dribble?

King, thanks for proving my point with your bold lettering. The Logi would be a speed freak but unable to compete with the scouts other basic stats - hitbox, regen, stamina, etc. The logi can take one or two points about another suit and that is all. It then suffers because of its other shortcomings. Though the scout needs some major love regardless.

He's right. Everyone is gathering into a big circle jerk, talking about what something else (they probably don't play as) should and shouldn't do compared to what their role. Instead of finding ways to fix a role they're experienced with that may be under performing, they'd rather drag something else down to their standards while riding on an issue that was resolved months ago. It's the same **** week in and week out, someone cries about logistics, doesn't prove that the suit is better through an irrefutable source like the fitting creator and everyone gathers up with their pitch forks and torches, throwing out the same "suggestions"they threw out a week ago, ranging from sidearms to damage penalties.

I run my logistics99% of the time and have done since beta, I don't even understand how a sidearm only would be a nerf seen as almost all the action is cqc around objectives but then I guess a lot of people,e against it don't have a proto sidearm of they are newbs getting murder regardless of what they do.

The reason I don't like it is that I don't really like any of the sidearms we have. I can definitely see how they can be nasty in the right hands. But none of the sidearms really appeal to my play style, and I don't want to be forced to use something I don't like, just because I want to be a healer class.

So?
General Assault 2% extra damage per level
Gallente Dunno, someone else can think of this...
Amarr Same Bounus as is currently
Caldari +5% Range on Rail and Missle Weaponry
Minmatar +5% per level clip size on projectile weapons

General Logi 5% reduction to Equipment PG and CPU usage per level
Gallente Scanner Bonus
Amarr Uplink Bonus
Caldari Nanohive/Injector Bonus
Minmatar RE/Reptool Bonus

I'm afraid I can't quite put my finger on it, but I'm uncomfortable advocating a damage increase for assaults. I prefer making specific roles easier to fulfil, rather than making them outright better at it.

As for those race specific logi bonuses, I think most of them are much more applicable to scouts. For example, scanning, uplink deployment & RE deployment are far more suited to scouts (as in scouts that do scouty things).

In order to balance the full complex rack of combat mods, logis need to be sidearm only? Then it is balanced?


Well actually, the assaults CAN reach the EXACTLY same balance:
1) Fit full racks of complex HIs and LOs.
2) Leave EQs empty.
2) Fit a sidearm only.


THERE you have identical version of 'fixed' logi suit. Would you like play that? Would you?

Normally I agree with much of what tech says, but the sidearm only idea is crazy. And seriously, before you mention for the 18th time that you only run your SMG and do great, don't. It's like all those troll posts regynum makes where he says "well I just went 38/1 with that weapon, it works fine" Yeah, it works fine if you are f@cking regynum with proto everything else, maxed out core skills, and exceptional gun game. The example is pointless because it doesn't account for 99% of people who don't have an ishukone at level 5 proficency. Same with checkmate dual wielding his proto scrambler pistol and core flaylocks. How many have that option, and how are you going to do that when you only have the ONE sidearm slot, can't dual wield there.

Let's take the average noob, and set him loose out of the academy with his militia SMG and no proficiency. He is going to get straight up murdered every 5 seconds.

Just go with the required equipment fitting, simple, doesn't gimp people without maxed out sidearms. Done.

Normally I agree with much of what tech says, but the sidearm only idea is crazy. And seriously, before you mention for the 18th time that you only run your SMG and do great, don't. It's like all those troll posts regynum makes where he says "well I just went 38/1 with that weapon, it works fine" Yeah, it works fine if you are f@cking regynum with proto everything else, maxed out core skills, and exceptional gun game. The example is pointless because it doesn't account for 99% of people who don't have an ishukone at level 5 proficency. Same with checkmate dual wielding his proto scrambler pistol and core flaylocks. How many have that option, and how are you going to do that when you only have the ONE sidearm slot, can't dual wield there.

Let's take the average noob, and set him loose out of the academy with his militia SMG and no proficiency. He is going to get straight up murdered every 5 seconds.

Just go with the required equipment fitting, simple, doesn't gimp people without maxed out sidearms. Done.

If a Logi uses x CPU and y PG on equipment, then they can only use x CPU and y PG on weapons. Good? Bad? I'm just brainstorming here, trying to find a solution that isn't a nerf to Logibros.

Edit: Maybe the opposite could be true for Assaults... would stop them from using any good Prototype equipment effectively, but Logis would be unable to use Prototype weapons effectively.

A singe PG is worth about 4 CPU...

If a Logi has equipment fitted that uses 17 PG, and 112 CPU, that would give them 180 'balance' points (17x4+112)

They could then fit weaponry that uses equal to or less than 180 'balance' points.

It would force logis to be logis first, and assaults second. And vice versa for assaults.

Wouldn't giving Gallente assaults something better than a shield recharge bonus just be easier? Again, this is like nerfing other weapons because the plasma cannon is a piece of ****.

The Plasma Cannon is fine. I use it to some success, I would obviously do better with a rifle, but I can't blow up installations with a rifle.

If CCP offered a plasma cannon buff, would you turn it down?

If something is true about Dust is that all stats are not worth the same.


+72 Shields > +25% Shield delay reduction

hitbox,regen and stamina, things that you mentioned there?are never going to be better than Hacking,Hp,scanning options and heavy profile dampening.Not to mention the fit i explained previously does NOT lack stamina ;)
The logis suit can take More than 1 or 2 points about another suit PLUS they have their OWN points, like innate HP repair?
Cheap Equipment fitting?Hacking speed? ANYONE? The Logi suits have No shortcomings ,people that say this are Logis that are scared because they face yet another nerf.I play logi 90% of my time now nad i know that if i feel something is missing in my suit, i can fix it.


The fact is, im an ASSAULT/SCOUT player, and for Both purposes,i use Logi suits.... heh.. that is saying something....

They are ADV S.pistols and M-1 nades D:

TT..TT my amarr logi cant fit that much proto XD

---

You do have a point BUT:
GÇó Logis can ONLY be used AFTER you have at LEAST the MEd frames at level 5
GÇó Logis,even if not in the description, give you the feel that they are Medics/support.So most n00bs wthat go towards it are not looking exactly for firepower.Remember most Murderlogis are experienced players that kow where the good stuff is.
a N00b will always lean towards ASsaults and Heavies, rarely scouts...
GÇó The sidearm only IS NOT a bad idea, in the imaginary world CCP has released all weapons XD

sorry,just needed to say this XD

Normally I agree with much of what tech says, but the sidearm only idea is crazy. And seriously, before you mention for the 18th time that you only run your SMG and do great, don't. It's like all those troll posts regynum makes where he says "well I just went 38/1 with that weapon, it works fine" Yeah, it works fine if you are f@cking regynum with proto everything else, maxed out core skills, and exceptional gun game. The example is pointless because it doesn't account for 99% of people who don't have an ishukone at level 5 proficency. Same with checkmate dual wielding his proto scrambler pistol and core flaylocks. How many have that option, and how are you going to do that when you only have the ONE sidearm slot, can't dual wield there.

Let's take the average noob, and set him loose out of the academy with his militia SMG and no proficiency. He is going to get straight up murdered every 5 seconds.

Just go with the required equipment fitting, simple, doesn't gimp people without maxed out sidearms. Done.

You do have a point there with the need to get med frames up to 3. Been a while so I don't remember how much SP it takes to get there, but I'd still say my example stands because even your slightly more "advanced" noob with maybe 3 mil SP won't be able to field a good enough sidearm to be viable. It's a little too much of us to expect of them to plan so far ahead to max out and be good with a sidearm before they go logi.
In fact, an unintended consequence of going sidearm only would probably be a dramatic drop off in people who decide to play this class. Maybe some posters in this thread thinks that's great, I don't think I do. Think about it, you're a new player. You are just getting brutalized almost every battle. Most of us have been there - heck, I'm pretty sure there was no academy in open beta when I joined. Going 2/8 with 2-300 WP is progress. What lunatic would think to themselves, hmm, I really enjoy getting protostomped, but I think I'm not quite defenseless enough in my starter fit with an AR. I know! I'm going to start using just a sidearm!
Nobody in their right mind is going to go into logistics.

Also, to tech's point about putting this out because people are offering worse alternatives, that too is a valid point and I've tried it myself with some of the sillier uplink nerfing threads. Thing is, in this case, I sorta consider this the worse alternative. It works great for you because you do it anyway, but they're going to have to pull my LR out of my cold (and gold) dead Amarrian hands before I would go along with this (especially with my new templar LR BPO!). I think I probably would give up a high slot to keep my light weapon if I were forced to make that choice, which I should not have to do.

Sometimes I leave a high slot open anyway or put a nearly useless basic shield extender in it. Maybe it's b/c I don't have the proto logi yet, but I still fail to see how people can legitimately cram full armor tanking, a complex damage mod, fill all their equip slots with ADV or better gear, AND a high end weapon and still have any CPU/PG left to add a lot shield tanking too. Maybe there are more people running around with just sidearms than I think. I doubt it though, and bet that if you simply made it so that all the equip slots needed to be filled, even if people did just stick low-end nanohives in there, it would still take up enough CPU/PG that everyone would need to make sufficient sacrifices to make the assault suit more attractive to pure assault-type players. I just don't see how you could not make an equivalent (key term) assault suit that's better for pure killing than the same level/racial logi.

Well i do agree with you. The problem is that Logis can outpreforme ALL the other roles if intended.
Minmatar Logi is a better Scout htan scouts
Caldari Logi is a better Dual tanker than the Heavies
Gallante logi and amarr logis are better assault than assaults

The logis should be able to tank,but not reach the same HP of heavies.
They should be able to be fast,not as fast as scouts.
Should ghave Firepower,not the same assaults and so on..

So +1