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Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 553	Posted - 2013.10.24 21:24:00 - [1] - Quote Oswald Rehnquist wrote: How many assaults would nerf logis under this agreement? That's not an agreement. That's assaults like you whining on the forum so better players don't kill them anymore.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 553	Posted - 2013.10.24 21:28:00 - [2] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: Alldin Kan wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: Clearly people want more definition with roles so I propose that Logis are sidearm only but to balance this assault lose their equipment slot. This would define the two roles no matter how you look at it or dislike it. PS logi since beta, I am amarr proto logi, please discuss this as sensibly as possible so its easier for CCP to sift out the logic and reason from bullsht. Thank you. I don't want to keep seeing HP tanked Logis so this is better: PRO Cal Logi - 3 High, 2 Low PRO Min Logi - 4 High, 2 Low (didn't want 1 Low on any so I gave this a 2...) PRO Gal Logi - 2 High, 3 Low PRO Amarr Logi - 3 High, 3 Low Assaults keep their equipment, it's mandatory. This has nothing to do with balabce , you have just expressed that you want a logi HP nerf lol. Attributes are what defines a role, not the fact a fit has a bit more HP than the other. So it's ok for Logi to have comparable HP (or more) than an Assault while also having many equipment slots, yep totally makes sense. Yep. It does make sense. Obviously you think that just because you wear an assault suit, everything you look at should die. Get off your high horse.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 553	Posted - 2013.10.24 21:42:00 - [3] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: Alldin Kan wrote: So it's ok for Logi to have comparable HP (or more) than an Assault while also having many equipment slots, yep totally makes sense. Yep. It does make sense. Obviously you think that just because you wear an assault suit, everything you look at should die. Get off your high horse. Oh you, Assault is to be an offensive player, Logi at this moment is being treated as superior Officer Assault and not strictly support. Want me to tell you the stats on the Balac's Modified Assault CK.0? It's actually inferior to most Logi... You mean that outdated relic from chromosome? Of course it sucks, it wasn't updated when uprising was released and all the suits got better overall... except scouts.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 553	Posted - 2013.10.24 23:17:00 - [4] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Mordecai Sanguine wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Mordecai Sanguine wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=117209&find=unread Please guys read it and "Feed it" bump it i mean it must be said to the DEV. The sidearm only is not a good idea. Assault lose their equipement slot ? meh they don't give a fck... Logi lose their weapon ? holy sht ! In 3 days w'll never see again a Logi The ISHI SMG is more than enough. It COSTS CPU/PG/ISK like a Light weapon because it can work like one.... >..> If Sidearm only logis were to exist, a dual wielding Scrambler Pistol Amarr logi would be my fit to go... XD So logi could play ONLY with SMG ishukone ? that's.... pretty restrictive don't you think :/ No, noone said that. Even restricting logis to only 3 weapons is insane. Mordecai's idea wouldn't affect the logis that no one complains about, and would make life harder for the equipment spammers and people that abuse the Logi suit. His idea would stop people from complaining about logis. It would allow the real logibros to be logibros, while defining the role more. All without any real nerf. I fully support his idea.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 553	Posted - 2013.10.24 23:25:00 - [5] - Quote Dirks Macker wrote: I use Gal logi quite a bit. I like the equipment fitting bonus, it makes sense with the three slots you get. I was looking at some of the other bonuses and the Amarr armor local rep seems silly. So does the Minmatar hacking bonus. The Caldari shield regulator bonus makes it more of an assault suit. If I could change the bonuses, I would make them: * Gallente: Equipment fitting (stays same) * Amarr: Armor rep amount bonus (like a miniature Guardian - Amarr logi ship in EVE ) * Minmatar: Bonus to remote explosive damage (move hacking bonus to Caldari scout) * Caldari: Bonus to those future portable shield bubbles (making it the choice for medic role) I don't like the idea of forcing someone to use a single equipment. How would you like it if the Gallente bonus only applied to Active Scanners? The Amarr bonus makes sense because it is the official Combat Logi. The Caldari bonus should apply to nanotechnology related equipment, like hives, injectors, and repair tools. The Minmatar bonus makes sense too, Logistics include hacking.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 554	Posted - 2013.10.24 23:32:00 - [6] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: Even restricting logis to only 3 weapons is insane. Mordecai's idea wouldn't affect the logis that no one complains about, and would make life harder for the equipment spammers and people that abuse the Logi suit. His idea would stop people from complaining about logis. It would allow the real logibros to be logibros, while defining the role more. All without any real nerf. I fully support his idea. Cool, and I believe a real logi bro like myself is still effective with a sidearm because I am, it wouldn't just be that but assault would also lose their equipment slot, this way both roles are dependant on eachother but I also think mordecais idea is good and have been bumping it, try reading a thread before commenting, I too can do just fine with an SMG, I've been using just an SMG all day. Im going to be honest here, I like Plasma Cannons and ScRs too much. I won't stand to let them get taken away from me because Assaults are crying for a nerf.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 554	Posted - 2013.10.24 23:55:00 - [7] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: Even restricting logis to only 3 weapons is insane. Mordecai's idea wouldn't affect the logis that no one complains about, and would make life harder for the equipment spammers and people that abuse the Logi suit. His idea would stop people from complaining about logis. It would allow the real logibros to be logibros, while defining the role more. All without any real nerf. I fully support his idea. Cool, and I believe a real logi bro like myself is still effective with a sidearm because I am, it wouldn't just be that but assault would also lose their equipment slot, this way both roles are dependant on eachother but I also think mordecais idea is good and have been bumping it, try reading a thread before commenting, I too can do just fine with an SMG, I've been using just an SMG all day. Im going to be honest here, I like Plasma Cannons and ScRs too much. I won't stand to let them get taken away from me because Assaults are crying for a nerf. The balance would be assault loses its equipment making both more dependant on eachother, defining both roles better and encouraging team work, noone likes this though so people will whine forever about logi hp and fake logis. Your idea sound like a nerf to logis, real and fake, with a "nerf" to assaults so they are "balanced". A light weapon slot is worth a lot more than an equipment slot.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 554	Posted - 2013.10.25 00:11:00 - [8] - Quote I know it would encourage teamwork. But that isn't the issue, there is enough teamwork as is. The issue is that people are abusing logistics suits to get stats similar to assault suits. Mordecai's idea would greatly help prevent that. How many assaults would care that their Equipment slot was gone with all the free Logi kills they would be getting? Because I can tell you pretty much every Logi would care that they don't have a light weapon anymore. Your idea is heavily in favor of assaults, by a wide margin.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 555	Posted - 2013.10.25 00:33:00 - [9] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Mordecai Sanguine wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: How about Removing the equipment to the assault and giving Logis Sidearms AND CQ weapons....I mena... AR will soon be a CQ,shotguns,flaylocks,scrambler pistols,SMG, nova knifes...not to meniton OTHER Sidearms soon to come... Just an idea. I know you have a good intention but stop having ideas about "weapon restriction". Logis are not slave or human shield or free kill for assault don't forget it.... Bro. Logi is my main suit. Im an Amarr logi 1st I use Dual Scrambler Pistols and mantain my 3 K-D ratio pretty nicely. When i get pwnd , i just put on a Gek and Be OP mode. Im not talking out of my a here. I know the advantage i have while wearing my Logi suit. All the advantages none of the disadvantages.If i dont like something about the suit, pling! Module and its fixed. Its so adaptable that i can Run as a scout, with lower profile dampening and 600 HP. Or tank (At ADV level) all the way up to 900HP for 35k ISK. Or i can stack Damage mods (3) and Armor tank for 680 HP and a Lot of firepower...etc.. Logis at proto level outlast heavies,have more firepower than assaults,can run faster than scouts,etc/// Every suit needs a downfall. 1)Logis DONT have disadvantages 2)The only disadvantage an Assault has; Its that its not a Logi*.... ''Assaults run out of ammo very quick, they need uplinks, revives and healing, I can assure you that you are wrong.''* Yeah,thats what the logi will be there for... With Mordecai's suggestion. Logis would have a disadvantage. Nobody cares if you can get a 3 kdr, most people wouldn't be able to get more that 1-2 kills a match if they were restricted to sidearms, much less get a 3.0 kdr. With your and Tech's idea, logis would be used because someone has to be an equipment slave in the squad, not because someone wants to help the team.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 555	Posted - 2013.10.25 01:04:00 - [10] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Mordecai Sanguine wrote: If they are restricted to use their Pg/CPU as i said in Equipements it will be balanced. Everybody have a disadvantages ONLY when they got advantages don't you think ? Anyway restrict Logis weapon will nerf real logi AND the logi who set the problem. So....too much "collateral damage" don't you think ? On the otherhand sorry if was...bad with you when i answer you. It wasn't the purpose. But dude be honest when you spend 9 months about playing something you don't want to be fuced up like this. You're good with 2 scrambler ? Good i'm really good with only one. But when you will be with only one pistol. Reloading everytime. Out of ammo evry 2 minutes. Consume all the hives for yourself because secondary are low capacity you will see. Well if they restrict the CPU-PG use wouldnt it be AS BAD as just using sidearms? I mean i do know i WOuld prefer to run 2 scrambler pistols and 900 HP Logi with scanner and nanos,than a 550 HP logi at proto level with full equipment and GEK because i have a CPU-RESTRICTION......just saying ... How exactly would this restriction work?* It wouldn't, people would just fit 3 equipment for themself and carry on and the hp nerf or slot nerf threads would just carry on, sidearm only would solve everything, the logi would become the support class its supposed to be without our slots or hp being touched. If equipment takes up 20% of your resources, you have to make sacrifices to your tank and/or killing capabilities. 20% isn't even that much either, I easily passed 20% without even trying. Pretty much all you need to do is put 3-4 ADV equipment on, something only a real Logi would do. His idea probably wouldn't even affect you if you are a Logi like you claim to be, but it would affect the guys that fit nothing but Complex Armor and Shields with a Proto Weapon. A.K.A. the guys that give logis a bad name, and get Assaults all riled up.

Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 556	Posted - 2013.10.25 01:16:00 - [11] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Cosgar wrote: Also, I see more Minmatar and Caldari assaults with shotguns than logis. You can't blame everything on the banana men. None applicable: The fact you see more of something does not prove it cannot be done otherwise better: 1 Cx Kin cats 1 Enh Cardiac Reg 2 Enh Prof Dampners 3-4 Cx Shield extenders Shotgun of preference + ADV SCanner This is a Minmatar Logi / Proto suit. AKA the Sout v.2.0 Now this is a ''scout'' with 5 Armor repair rate @ 8.2 Sprint speed CAnnot be picked up by ADV active scanners Have scanning capabilities. A minimum of 25% Hacking bonus speed WITHOUT Passive bonuses: 150 Armor and 380 shields.Total 530 HP Possibly Nanohives to replenish. Now tell my my friend, what scout OR assault an do all that at the same time.... Is it more expensive? Hell yeah.Do i or anyone with over 50mill care? hell no... This isn't a problem with Logi suits though... The problem here is that scout suits suck. An assault can be a better scout than a scout as well, does that mean we should take a light weapon slot way from assaults and nerf their speed so they can't be shotgun asscouts? No. It means scouts need a buff.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 558	Posted - 2013.10.25 01:30:00 - [12] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: This isn't a problem with Logi suits though... The problem here is that scout suits suck. An assault can be a better scout than a scout as well, does that mean we should take a light weapon slot way from assaults and nerf their speed so they can't be shotgun asscouts? No. It means scouts need a buff. AGreed,but what kind of buff do you propose, one that DENIES Logis from being better scouts than scouts? Because,no offense, you people are good at bashing our ideas but dont come out with good ideas of your own. So tell be bro Fizzer, what to do so a scout can never be outdone in its job by a logi. Enlighten me. Increase their "scout" base stats, profile, and passive scan radius. Decrease the scan profile to about 25db. Increase their scan range to about 35m instead of 10. Then, give them fitting bonuses to kincats, dampeners and the like. Leave the Gallente scout bonus, change the Minny scout bonus to +5% speed per level. While Nova Knifers would be kinda left out, I think the extra speed would be just as helpful as the extra damage for them. With this + the changes Mordecai suggested, Logis wouldn't be able to outdo Assaults or Scouts. Heavies also need a slight buff, not as much as scouts do, but the HMG could be a bit more accurate, or at least get more accurate faster.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 559	Posted - 2013.10.25 01:42:00 - [13] - Quote Dirks Macker wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Dirks Macker wrote: I use Gal logi quite a bit. I like the equipment fitting bonus, it makes sense with the three slots you get. I was looking at some of the other bonuses and the Amarr armor local rep seems silly. So does the Minmatar hacking bonus. The Caldari shield regulator bonus makes it more of an assault suit. If I could change the bonuses, I would make them: * Gallente: Equipment fitting (stays same) * Amarr: Armor rep amount bonus (like a miniature Guardian - Amarr logi ship in EVE ) * Minmatar: Bonus to remote explosive damage (move hacking bonus to Caldari scout) * Caldari: Bonus to those future portable shield bubbles (making it the choice for medic role) No, your bonuses would preclude alternative equipment, you have locked logis into a specific item. That is unacceptable. Bonuses should be universal in their scope. Gallente: fit, Amarr: repair, Min: hack, Caldari: shields. This is also a comment on the current bonuses. Requireing a suit to use a specific weapon, or module in order to be effective is not a good bonus in my opinion. Gall, ok. Min, ok, but the other bonuses could change - same for the assaults. How do bonuses preclude alternate equipment? My proposal gives each race a small edge in one area, much like bonuses work in EVE. In DUST, you could get an idea as to what an enemy logi has equipped to take advantage of that bonus. An Amarr logi would likely have a repper, Minmatar remote explosives, etc... I think that would add to the experience. Then the assault suits should only get bonuses to their races rifle, because that's how it works in EVE right? Only Gallente Assaults can be good with an AR, Amarr Assaults with ScR. Ect. Ect. Your idea forces someone into a play style whether they like it or not. In short, your idea sucks.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 559	Posted - 2013.10.25 01:50:00 - [14] - Quote I'll put this here, because its a great idea that fixes a lot of problems. Click here to view great idea.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 560	Posted - 2013.10.25 02:22:00 - [15] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Cosgar wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: And no people would still moan about the hp and combat effectiveness, it wouldmy define it either, it would be the same but some equipment bonuses, the fake logis will still just put equipment on to help themself and noone else. So what!? So what if some people are using Logi suits as assault suits, heavies as snipers, or minmatar assaults as beefier scouts? This is not a case like the caldari logi/tac ar that was obviously superior to everything else and needed nerfing. I think I am a proper logi bro, I carry advanced equipment at the minimum, but I also carry at least an adv weapon if not proto and I use proto shield and armor so I can survive and yes even kill the enemy. However, I'm not going to begrudge anyone their choice of using a logi suit however they choose. I personally find caldari logi's that are tanked and running around with shotguns trying to get everyone in CQC annoying, but they are still certainly killable. To me these balance logi threads reeks of people trying to force their preconceived notions of what each suit should be onto everyone else. Lol, so are you going to add anything of relevance or just dribble? He's right. Everyone is gathering into a big circle jerk, talking about what something else (they probably don't play as) should and shouldn't do compared to what their role. Instead of finding ways to fix a role they're experienced with that may be under performing, they'd rather drag something else down to their standards while riding on an issue that was resolved months ago. It's the same **** week in and week out, someone cries about logistics, doesn't prove that the suit is better through an irrefutable source like the fitting creator and everyone gathers up with their pitch forks and torches, throwing out the same "suggestions"they threw out a week ago, ranging from sidearms to damage penalties. I run my logistics99% of the time and have done since beta, I don't even understand how a sidearm only would be a nerf seen as almost all the action is cqc around objectives but then I guess a lot of people,e against it don't have a proto sidearm of they are newbs getting murder regardless of what they do. The reason I don't like it is that I don't really like any of the sidearms we have. I can definitely see how they can be nasty in the right hands. But none of the sidearms really appeal to my play style, and I don't want to be forced to use something I don't like, just because I want to be a healer class.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 560	Posted - 2013.10.25 02:42:00 - [16] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: The reason I don't like it is that I don't really like any of the sidearms we have. I can definitely see how they can be nasty in the right hands. But none of the sidearms really appeal to my play style, and I don't want to be forced to use something I don't like, just because I want to be a healer class. Im sure the MAg seg SMG (Caldari) will be a great mid range weapon and the Ion pistol (Gallante) Will be a powerful CQ weapon, you do have a point thou, CCP owes us a LOT of stuff here.... I am definitely looking forward to the Magsec, but I find fun in using the more outlandish weapons. This is why my favorite weapons are the Laser, ScR, and Placon, all three of which are light weapons. I also find fun in keeping people alive. Reducing me to a sidearm, would ruin the game for me.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 561	Posted - 2013.10.25 04:52:00 - [17] - Quote If a Logi uses x CPU and y PG on equipment, then they can only use x CPU and y PG on weapons. Good? Bad? I'm just brainstorming here, trying to find a solution that isn't a nerf to Logibros.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 561	Posted - 2013.10.25 05:15:00 - [18] - Quote The Plasma Cannon is fine. I use it to some success, I would obviously do better with a rifle, but I can't blow up installations with a rifle.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 561	Posted - 2013.10.25 05:17:00 - [19] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: If a Logi uses x CPU and y PG on equipment, then they can only use x CPU and y PG on weapons. Good? Bad? I'm just brainstorming here, trying to find a solution that isn't a nerf to Logibros. Edit: Maybe the opposite could be true for Assaults... would stop them from using any good Prototype equipment effectively, but Logis would be unable to use Prototype weapons effectively. A singe PG is worth about 4 CPU... If a Logi has equipment fitted that uses 17 PG, and 112 CPU, that would give them 180 'balance' points (17x4+112) They could then fit weaponry that uses equal to or less than 180 'balance' points. It would force logis to be logis first, and assaults second. And vice versa for assaults. Wouldn't giving Gallente assaults something better than a shield recharge bonus just be easier? Again, this is like nerfing other weapons because the plasma cannon is a piece of ****. Believe me the last thing I want is a Logi nerf, that is why I am suggesting this. This wouldn't nerf Logis, but it would nerf Slayer Logis, at least to the point that you would be better off just usining an assault suit.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 561	Posted - 2013.10.25 05:20:00 - [20] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: The Plasma Cannon is fine. I use it to some success, I would obviously do better with a rifle, but I can't blow up installations with a rifle. If CCP offered a plasma cannon buff, would you turn it down? Unless it was a buff to direct damage, yes. I don't want the Placon to be easy to use.