DUST Search - The real logi balance thread.

KING CHECKMATE wrote:

John Demonsbane wrote:

Normally I agree with much of what tech says, but the sidearm only idea is crazy. And seriously, before you mention for the 18th time that you only run your SMG and do great, don't. It's like all those troll posts regynum makes where he says "well I just went 38/1 with that weapon, it works fine" Yeah, it works fine if you are f@cking regynum with proto everything else, maxed out core skills, and exceptional gun game. The example is pointless because it doesn't account for 99% of people who don't have an ishukone at level 5 proficency. Same with checkmate dual wielding his proto scrambler pistol and core flaylocks. How many have that option, and how are you going to do that when you only have the ONE sidearm slot, can't dual wield there.

Let's take the average noob, and set him loose out of the academy with his militia SMG and no proficiency. He is going to get straight up murdered every 5 seconds.

Just go with the required equipment fitting, simple, doesn't gimp people without maxed out sidearms. Done.

They are ADV S.pistols and M-1 nades D:

TT..TT my amarr logi cant fit that much proto XD

You do have a point BUT:
GÇó Logis can ONLY be used AFTER you have at LEAST the MEd frames at level 5
GÇó Logis,even if not in the description, give you the feel that they are Medics/support.So most n00bs wthat go towards it are not looking exactly for firepower.Remember most Murderlogis are experienced players that kow where the good stuff is.
a N00b will always lean towards ASsaults and Heavies, rarely scouts...
GÇó The sidearm only IS NOT a bad idea, in the imaginary world CCP has released all weapons XD

sorry,just needed to say this XD


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John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 242	Posted - 2013.10.25 03:45:00 - [1] - Quote Normally I agree with much of what tech says, but the sidearm only idea is crazy. And seriously, before you mention for the 18th time that you only run your SMG and do great, don't. It's like all those troll posts regynum makes where he says "well I just went 38/1 with that weapon, it works fine" Yeah, it works fine if you are f@cking regynum with proto everything else, maxed out core skills, and exceptional gun game. The example is pointless because it doesn't account for 99% of people who don't have an ishukone at level 5 proficency. Same with checkmate dual wielding his proto scrambler pistol and core flaylocks. How many have that option, and how are you going to do that when you only have the ONE sidearm slot, can't dual wield there. Let's take the average noob, and set him loose out of the academy with his militia SMG and no proficiency. He is going to get straight up murdered every 5 seconds. Just go with the required equipment fitting, simple, doesn't gimp people without maxed out sidearms. Done.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 243	Posted - 2013.10.25 12:04:00 - [2] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Normally I agree with much of what tech says, but the sidearm only idea is crazy. And seriously, before you mention for the 18th time that you only run your SMG and do great, don't. It's like all those troll posts regynum makes where he says "well I just went 38/1 with that weapon, it works fine" Yeah, it works fine if you are f@cking regynum with proto everything else, maxed out core skills, and exceptional gun game. The example is pointless because it doesn't account for 99% of people who don't have an ishukone at level 5 proficency. Same with checkmate dual wielding his proto scrambler pistol and core flaylocks. How many have that option, and how are you going to do that when you only have the ONE sidearm slot, can't dual wield there. Let's take the average noob, and set him loose out of the academy with his militia SMG and no proficiency. He is going to get straight up murdered every 5 seconds. Just go with the required equipment fitting, simple, doesn't gimp people without maxed out sidearms. Done. They are ADV S.pistols and M-1 nades D: TT..TT my amarr logi cant fit that much proto XD You do have a point BUT: GÇó Logis can ONLY be used AFTER you have at LEAST the MEd frames at level 5 GÇó Logis,even if not in the description, give you the feel that they are Medics/support.So most n00bs wthat go towards it are not looking exactly for firepower.Remember most Murderlogis are experienced players that kow where the good stuff is. a N00b will always lean towards ASsaults and Heavies, rarely scouts... GÇó The sidearm only IS NOT a bad idea, in the imaginary world CCP has released all weapons XD sorry,just needed to say this XD You do have a point there with the need to get med frames up to 3. Been a while so I don't remember how much SP it takes to get there, but I'd still say my example stands because even your slightly more "advanced" noob with maybe 3 mil SP won't be able to field a good enough sidearm to be viable. It's a little too much of us to expect of them to plan so far ahead to max out and be good with a sidearm before they go logi. In fact, an unintended consequence of going sidearm only would probably be a dramatic drop off in people who decide to play this class. Maybe some posters in this thread thinks that's great, I don't think I do. Think about it, you're a new player. You are just getting brutalized almost every battle. Most of us have been there - heck, I'm pretty sure there was no academy in open beta when I joined. Going 2/8 with 2-300 WP is progress. What lunatic would think to themselves, hmm, I really enjoy getting protostomped, but I think I'm not quite defenseless enough in my starter fit with an AR. I know! I'm going to start using just a sidearm! Nobody in their right mind is going to go into logistics. Also, to tech's point about putting this out because people are offering worse alternatives, that too is a valid point and I've tried it myself with some of the sillier uplink nerfing threads. Thing is, in this case, I sorta consider this the worse alternative. It works great for you because you do it anyway, but they're going to have to pull my LR out of my cold (and gold) dead Amarrian hands before I would go along with this (especially with my new templar LR BPO!). I think I probably would give up a high slot to keep my light weapon if I were forced to make that choice, which I should not have to do. Sometimes I leave a high slot open anyway or put a nearly useless basic shield extender in it. Maybe it's b/c I don't have the proto logi yet, but I still fail to see how people can legitimately cram full armor tanking, a complex damage mod, fill all their equip slots with ADV or better gear, AND a high end weapon and still have any CPU/PG left to add a lot shield tanking too. Maybe there are more people running around with just sidearms than I think. I doubt it though, and bet that if you simply made it so that all the equip slots needed to be filled, even if people did just stick low-end nanohives in there, it would still take up enough CPU/PG that everyone would need to make sufficient sacrifices to make the assault suit more attractive to pure assault-type players. I just don't see how you could not make an equivalent (key term) assault suit that's better for pure killing than the same level/racial logi.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 297	Posted - 2013.10.31 05:44:00 - [3] - Quote Sprog Intaki wrote: Fit 4 of the lowest requirement mods and use the rest of the massive pg/cpu to fit an armor tank and a couple of complex damage enhancers. BAM instant imaginary awesome suit I totally did not completely pull out of my ass Fixed it for you. Just b/c you can armor tank a suit doesn't make you indestructible. It makes you slow. I love how all these would-be logi nerfers run around spinning tales of unbeatable logi suits of yore that haven't existed since the Caldari got fixed. Try this chief, make an actual logistics suit load out with real modules, and real numbers. Then, just for you know, sh!ts and giggles, how bout you then compare it to an actual assault fit from the same race. No more, oh, this guy in a proto Caldari logi pwned me so that suit is amazing, or, I have a proto gallente and I kill people with assault suits and duvolles all the time. Great, so f@cking what? Maybe they have higher proficiency than you, maybe you have maxed core skills and they don't, maybe one of you is just a better damn player. Your personal experience going up against other suits is meaningless because it's totally subjective. At best you know their weapon and suit. That's it, you have no idea about mods, proficency skills, anything. Pointless. Ninja spam artist/logistical nightmare Amarr victor!