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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Mossellia Delt
Militaires Sans Jeux
475
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 17:49:00 -
[151] - Quote
I want CCP Blam back, these changes look awful |
TiMeSpLiT--TeR
Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore
400
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 17:50:00 -
[152] - Quote
Finite ammunition? Is this a good thing? This is the first game that I know that does this. How are we going to refill ammunition? Are tanks going to use nanohives? I hope it separates nanohives from infantry and vehicles.
This will add more challenging for dropship users. For me, I hate when I have to land them. Also, the view is too close. I hope there is such thing as aerial refiill similar to warhawk or starhawk if I'm going to refill.
Here's a good example view for aerial combat
http://youtu.be/LL7FGDhUiWY
http://youtu.be/1ABUq0t0HH0
http://youtu.be/oGlhaWym7w8
I know they're not dropship, but you get the idea.
http://youtu.be/ZVskGj7_jaw <------------ Look how bad ass he fly his helicopter. Make it happen CCP. |
Epicsting pro
Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore
293
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 17:54:00 -
[153] - Quote
I have a few questions with this 1st are active modules going to act like eve were you click them the go on till cycle is done. Then they after cool down they then start a new cycle. Second bye the looks of missile have such huge blast radius and can unload a clip in 1.8s how do you thank this will affec infantry play, some may say it to strong. And 3rd since this is a complete rework of skills will vehicle drivers like my self, can we expect a refund on our vehicle skill, and turret skills. |
Egypt Musk
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
20
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Posted - 2013.10.02 17:56:00 -
[154] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:The Logistics and Assault Dropships are going to be taken out temporarily, but they should be returning in the future. As was said in the first post, we want to go back to basics and get the core interactions working first. Then we can look at branching back out once we have a solid foundation. So were getting our sp back for these Items while they are unavailable? |
Xocoyol Zaraoul
Superior Genetics
1169
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 18:07:00 -
[155] - Quote
Limiting the amount of slots makes me a bit sad and worried that the amount of "different" HAVs we will see on the battlefield will decrease due to customization limits.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out. |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star. EoN.
1333
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 18:19:00 -
[156] - Quote
Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:Limiting the amount of slots makes me a bit sad and worried that the amount of "different" HAVs we will see on the battlefield will decrease due to customization limits. Part of me thinks this is foreshadowing 'eventual' intro of adv / proto tanks. Nerfing standard slots to make room for advanced between standard and proto. |
shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon DARKSTAR ARMY
744
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 18:19:00 -
[157] - Quote
I'm generally against all kind of respec, but in this case how would you behave? Vehicle skill tree will be totally changed, will you respec the skill tree?
For the feedback i will wait till changes will be set in place, i can't say if a thing is good or not without try it. |
Nguruthos IX
PEN 15 CLUB
1942
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 18:22:00 -
[158] - Quote
Im about to read this but keep in mind regarding dropships.. All these changes are for not- if you dont fix the bloody turret aiming bug!! Quit ripping turrets out of my gunners hands because they aimed too close to an arbitrary invisible and pointless line drawn to reset turret position. Raaaaaggeeeee!!!
Gunners need to be able to aim at the lower front half of the ship, like before uprising. Before you bugged it out while trying to fix the "gunners hitting ship in one small area at the front" issue. |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star. EoN.
1333
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 18:24:00 -
[159] - Quote
Also when I see threads like this go multi- multi-page and devs stop responding after a couple hours, I can't help but imagine us all sitting in a big white room with glaring lights, a few stray tankers in a corner bobbing back and forth, some scouts running manically in circles going "eeeee!!!! eEEEEE!!!!!", a heavy just sitting at the one table in the middle of the room all depressed with a pile of candy wrappers in front of him and chocolate smudged all over his face and he occassionally just growls under his breath... and the devs are just sitting in lab coats behind a two-way mirror listening to our ramblings, occassionally tallying something or other on a clipboard.
I mean, not even saying they should post more, just saying that's how I picture these threads. |
IgniteableAura
Pro Hic Immortalis
184
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 18:28:00 -
[160] - Quote
Still somewhat disappointed in skills only unlocking...they need to provide a benefit.
My first concern is the ability to recall and redeploy. Its really quite feasible to use your active mods, run to the redline, call in new vehicle, recall old one. Without ever having to "wait" for cooldown timers.
Rails have too much ammo imo, with that total you can spend almost the entire game shooting and not run out.
Its really difficult to know exactly how much this will effect since pretty much this is an entire overhaul. Those are my first impressions. Can't really give an honest opinion since there are so many changes...without a viable way to test in game, its difficult.
Any possibility for someone to build/release a fitting tool? |
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Vell0cet
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
386
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 18:30:00 -
[161] - Quote
Stile451 wrote:Are armor repairers now passive? Vell0cet wrote:This is a HUGE missed opportunity for adding vehicle capacitors. CCP could reuse code from the stamina system to make it happen, and it makes so-much-more sense to balance around capacitors than long cooldowns. It gives drivers/pilots more freedom and flexibility which should help them perform better. It's easy to manage a single resource than multiple long cooldowns. It still allows for waves of opportunity and is consistent with your stated goals for vehicles. It would lead to more diversity of fittings, which should make the battlefield more interesting. It would appeal to existing EVE players and might draw them into DUST and vice-versa. It would set DUST above every other FPS in the market by having truly rich/deep tactical vehicle combat. It opens the door for so many interesting possibilities later.
There will literally never be a better time to add capacitors. It will only get harder to do later as you balance around long cooldowns timers, and may get so bad that you decide to never implement them because it would require another total rebalance. I beg you to reconsider.
Also, removing slots is stupid. It will result in very little diversity of fitting, making vehicles very similar, predictable and boring as hell. An Eve style power management system with low or no cooldown(depending on module) would be a great way to manage modules(shield booster modules would need to be reworked). Exactly. Capacitors are a much more elegant solution to managing burst damage/defense than long cooldowns timers. They reward skilled players and open up so many interesting possibilities in the future. |
FatalFlaw V1
ISK Faucet Industries
114
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 18:39:00 -
[162] - Quote
I am extremely uncomfortable with your lack of information on how our skillpoints will be reset to compensate for all of these sweeping changes and removal of vehicles.
Also..assault dropships please?
Tanks already felt extremely weak vs even 2-3 mercs with AV grenades. These changes look like nerfs to me.
Oh and about those skill points? Resetting all points in vehicle command, turrets, and vehicle upgrades I must assume? |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
2561
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 18:39:00 -
[163] - Quote
Disfool wrote:If the stats for the mods are good enough to help with how they want to play the vehicles, (aka Armor can go really high on mady, and gunlogi can hit and run to a degree) then i feel the changes will be great, gona suck not having a damage varriant of vehicals, a logistics one, and a tanky one but i can wait a few months for them, but uhh.. gona need a respec if your gona keep changing everything QQ please ccp :3
That's not what the numbers allow for. Read my previous post for the quick and dirty. |
Princeps Marcellus
Expert Intervention Caldari State
249
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 18:40:00 -
[164] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Sgt Buttscratch wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote: What is it with you infantry believing we want tanks to be indestructible? You get grenades that do ~2000 damage against armor. That's not enough?
You get a Railgun that does 1,800+ damage from 10x the range. A Large Missile Launcher that does more than that. I'm sorry but basing an argument on three legitimate AV options: Swarms which do more damage than they honestly should, AV grenades which require you to be danger close and Forges which are actually pretty well balanced. Versus Tanks which are good for everything except AV. I dunno what to tell you because it's not going to be what you want to hear. Obviously, CCP doesn't either. Railgun that can shoot other vehicles at 10x the range, testing last night, turret installation not locked onto me took me to get with 168m range with a rail gun for it to render, when locked on it rendered at 230m.... infantry rendering for the most is pathetic, then every so often the game will allow you to see them at 200m. Large missile launchers that were changed to need virtually direct hits on infantry( a mass damage has a more effective splash system going) but good versus tanks and istallations. dange close AV.... Or just on the other side of a wall, or in a scout suit. Forge guns..... Still unsure about these TBO, my main issue is how cheap they are compared to turrets. Ishy FG does 100(ish) less damage than a 900k proto type rail turret. breach does 1k more damage. Rendering, while playing into the overall balance, isn't related to vehicle balancing. It's a symptom of a disease, not the disease itself. Just as well, Breach Forge Gun requires the user to be completely immobile and Forge Guns in their entirety require the user to move slower when charging. A small window but a window none-the-less. Even then they have a maximum range of <350m (I'm not sure of this number specifically, I just know they can't go beyond that). Fix the rendering and that's no longer a problem for Rail-guns with 600 meter (redline) range.
It's not so much that it's no longer a problem for railgun tanks, it's just that it's no longer a problem that we can complain about. Not unless there are funky things other than rendering going on. |
Nguruthos IX
PEN 15 CLUB
1943
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 18:47:00 -
[165] - Quote
ChromeBreaker wrote:On a first pass... skills that dont have an inherant bonus are back
And no given values on the armour Modules... 180mm plates gone? Guess derpships will still be that weird medium vehicle with only enough pg\cpu for small modules |
Princeps Marcellus
Expert Intervention Caldari State
249
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 18:54:00 -
[166] - Quote
Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:Limiting the amount of slots makes me a bit sad and worried that the amount of "different" HAVs we will see on the battlefield will decrease due to customization limits. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Also nobody is going to believe that speel about "Temporarily" removing those dropships, since you said the same thing when you removed the marauders... EDIT: I do have a concern with the posted stats for shields, you said in theory the shields would allow you to "hit-and-run" and were supposed to have a faster recovery time but lower EHP then the armor equivalents... However, I'm worrying that your new HP values are going to make it difficult for any shield HAV to survive any "quick" engagement without being blown to smithereens. A fast recovery time is meaningless if your EHP is too low to survive the "run" part of hit-and-run... It honestly looks like shield tanks are even more fragile then they are now, and that is deeply concerning for me...
IgniteableAura wrote:Still somewhat disappointed in skills only unlocking...they need to provide a benefit.
My first concern is the ability to recall and redeploy. Its really quite feasible to use your active mods, run to the redline, call in new vehicle, recall old one. Without ever having to "wait" for cooldown timers.
Rails have too much ammo imo, with that total you can spend almost the entire game shooting and not run out.
Its really difficult to know exactly how much this will effect since pretty much this is an entire overhaul. Those are my first impressions. Can't really give an honest opinion since there are so many changes...without a viable way to test in game, its difficult.
Lastly, no response on giving back SP for vehicles your are removing....Or a SP refund for all vehicle related skills since this is such a large change in how skills are effecting aspects of vehicles.
Any possibility for someone to build/release a fitting tool?
Thanks for your hard work I was rather surprised at the railgun ammo count, too. In BF4 (first Battlefield title to have vehicle ammo, I think) tanks have about 25 shells. Of course, in BF4, you'd expect your tank to die within a few minutes, too. |
Shouper of BHD
Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation
286
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 19:00:00 -
[167] - Quote
what I liked:
turrets got skill books for specialisation to some extent.
armour vs shield looks good on paper.
active vs passive is structures to be balanced.
fighting tactics look balanced. (hit and run vs tenacious).
what I didn`t like:
spawn in CRU WP as well as triage WP were neglected and were 2 of the top 3 requests for WP.
small turrets look bad (UP), missiles prevail over rail guns (small).
pilots are removed of their roles for a while and will require candy to taunt there mercs aboard to get very few WP for allot of work.
HAVs have less slots then DS, this is more of a question, will the heavy modules be strong enough to make up for their lower counts? or is this a meta lv thing? if the ladder what does that mean for DS and tanks?
Logi LAVs are not confirm as slower to help balance as well as their module changed from healing to ammo.
we are not aware of how many vehicles we will have when, such as Python III or Sageris II.
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Vulpes Dolosus
Neanderthal Nation Public Disorder.
79
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 19:04:00 -
[168] - Quote
I disagree with the removal of seats when removing turrets IN DROPSHIPS ONLY.
It makes sense for LAVs (there's no seat to replace the turret) and HAVs (I hate passengers in my tanks that do nothing), but removing the seats in dropships is bad. It makes transport only dropships weaker by having to sport turrets for seats, taking CPU/PG away from the tanking potential.
I hope they reconsider this or add a way to add seats (I'd like a 4 person LLAV squad too). |
Shouper of BHD
Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation
286
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 19:08:00 -
[169] - Quote
@CCP, when will there be PRO vehicles and will they improve in more hen HP, PG/CPU, and recharge? like will it gain module count? or will lets say a Logi DS have a lighter frame at PO or advance? or will there be a chasis module that changes the frame weight? |
Spkr4theDead
International-Fleet
951
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 19:08:00 -
[170] - Quote
Princeps Marcellus wrote:Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:Limiting the amount of slots makes me a bit sad and worried that the amount of "different" HAVs we will see on the battlefield will decrease due to customization limits. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Also nobody is going to believe that speel about "Temporarily" removing those dropships, since you said the same thing when you removed the marauders... EDIT: I do have a concern with the posted stats for shields, you said in theory the shields would allow you to "hit-and-run" and were supposed to have a faster recovery time but lower EHP then the armor equivalents... However, I'm worrying that your new HP values are going to make it difficult for any shield HAV to survive any "quick" engagement without being blown to smithereens. A fast recovery time is meaningless if your EHP is too low to survive the "run" part of hit-and-run... It honestly looks like shield tanks are even more fragile then they are now, and that is deeply concerning for me... IgniteableAura wrote:Still somewhat disappointed in skills only unlocking...they need to provide a benefit.
My first concern is the ability to recall and redeploy. Its really quite feasible to use your active mods, run to the redline, call in new vehicle, recall old one. Without ever having to "wait" for cooldown timers.
Rails have too much ammo imo, with that total you can spend almost the entire game shooting and not run out.
Its really difficult to know exactly how much this will effect since pretty much this is an entire overhaul. Those are my first impressions. Can't really give an honest opinion since there are so many changes...without a viable way to test in game, its difficult.
Lastly, no response on giving back SP for vehicles your are removing....Or a SP refund for all vehicle related skills since this is such a large change in how skills are effecting aspects of vehicles.
Any possibility for someone to build/release a fitting tool?
Thanks for your hard work I was rather surprised at the railgun ammo count, too. In BF4 (first Battlefield title to have vehicle ammo, I think) tanks have about 25 shells. Of course, in BF4, you'd expect your tank to die within a few minutes, too. Probably gonna refill if someone else drives it. |
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Vulpes Dolosus
Neanderthal Nation Public Disorder.
79
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 19:10:00 -
[171] - Quote
Question: is the "shield recharge rate" per second or per minute or what? |
crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1773
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 19:11:00 -
[172] - Quote
Are you designing these tanks with a system to fit in with the MINMATAR AND AMMAR TANKS.
Because if your not , and you can't even see 2 feet ahead of you in terms of balance that's it, I'm out of this stupid game.
It feels like you've chosen to only have 2 tanks in the game forever but you don't want to tell anyone. This update confirms it, since it's obvious you don't to touch tanks for at least a year.
Unless you have the numbers for the ammar and minmatar tanks on paper and are using that to design a full game will basic content then you are literately turning your wheels and why should I waste my time and money on a game with no roadmap, no direction, no design, no focus, no point...
I've been paying eve since beta, it's not like I want dust to only have 2000 people online at a time... eve eve online did better in the 1st year... and no one played mmos back then. I thought the whole reason to go console was you'd get more players than PC!!!!!!
Anyways, I'm kitteningly seriously, this is the last straw I didn't see a single point about how the minmatar/ammar, or their weapon system were being taken into account.
If this goes through and you just decided dust is a 2 racial tank game, that's it, I'm out, **** you ***holes for leading us on.
If you don't have all basic content, or placeholders by the end of the year then you're basically a bunch of fools on a sinking ship.?
You are doing nothing but creating a million holes you'll have to re-balance everything all over again in the future!!!!!!!! I work in the games industry this is the kind of stuff we've fired people for here at *********. Maybe you guys hired them after we threw them out... |
Awesome Pantaloons
Tech Guard
94
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 19:11:00 -
[173] - Quote
Okay, hold the phone a bit... It seems like you guys are making it more difficult to operate vehicles? How does that balance things at all? lol Maybe it just seems that way with all of the new skills and requirements. If so, my tanks better be the shiznit after all this. |
crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1773
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 19:26:00 -
[174] - Quote
but I still like the overall direction you are going but ... : ( give me faith you aren't going to just make another post like this in 2 years, or that you care about adding in the rest of the tanks once the art is done asap : (
what if eve onlie was release but with other caldari and minmatar frigates, no one would of played it. It would of died, for real.
just have a plan... take the other tanks into account while balancing even if they aren't released yet ... |
The legend345
TeamPlayers EoN.
1079
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 19:27:00 -
[175] - Quote
This is terrible all of it. Its SOOO BAD are you kidding me ccp? Throw all this garbage away, yes its all garbage. Throw it away and simply buff the tanks now. You guys preached how your gonna change tanking blah blah blah this is your plan? This is terrible!!! I cant even stop saying how terrible this 0_0. Tanking is all about how long you can stay in the action. Neither a shield tank or armor will be able to "stay in the action" at all. One forge shot and ill be running. I wont have the module slots to properly fit the tank. Nor will i be able to get diversity without completely eliminating a strong point. You guys are pathetic. Nobody ask for the "gameplay to get reinvented". We wanted a vehicle buff thats it lol. All you had to do was bump up a few numbers and everything would have been fine. Shield tanking is a joke all that pg for a 1000 rep xD thats not even a milta armor rep now. Then on the other end for madrugars you plan on giving us passive reps. Um maybe if the plan was to have us redline sniping. Throw this garbage out and buff what we have. This **** would take so long for you guys to fix it would be sickening. |
The legend345
TeamPlayers EoN.
1079
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 19:28:00 -
[176] - Quote
crazy space 1 wrote:but I still like the overall direction you are going but ... : ( give me faith you aren't going to just make another post like this in 2 years, or that you care about adding in the rest of the tanks once the art is done asap : (
what if eve onlie was release but with other caldari and minmatar frigates, no one would of played it. It would of died, for real.
just have a plan... take the other tanks into account while balancing even if they aren't released yet ... Are you crazy this is garbage |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
2212
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 19:44:00 -
[177] - Quote
You are missing the perfect opportunity to shift to a Cap system with it's greater flexibility and future expansion opportunities. It's inherently more difficult to keep track of several cool-down timers than it is one capacitor level.
The hit-and-run engagement style of play does give vehicles the opportunity to be beefy without remaining in god-mode constantly, but the relative lengths of time are going to have to carefully balanced. Make the attack time too short and they won't be good for anything, and if you make the cool-down too long you risk significant boredom.
I'm a dropship pilot rather than a tanker, but I'm concerned for their ability to get back to safety on these small maps with the mobility AV has. I can picture one or two LAV's called in specifically to chase down and kill a tank once it withdraws from battle. A dropship would also be perfect as a chase/kill vehicle because it's so difficult to get away from. The dropship would just sit and wait for the tank to go into cool-down and swoop in for an easy kill.
You might actually require a dropship or LAV to cover the withdrawal of a tank. Hmmm, that could actually encourage multi-unit tactics. |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
1036
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 19:51:00 -
[178] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:The Attorney General wrote:As long as proto AV is out there, these tanks, from the stats will be even bigger coffins than the current batch. Thankfully they aren't making us beta test this stuff since we've officially released. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they're addressing it, but I'm getting kind of pissed with this whole ******* process. How the **** am I supposed to decide where I want to put my SP when things change so drastically like this? I mean, to the point where many vehicles have now been removed, with the promise that they'll be back soon....hmm...I seem to remember a tank that was taken out to come back "soon"....
I remember two of them...... |
Magnus Amadeuss
DUST University Ivy League
56
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 19:53:00 -
[179] - Quote
CCP Logibro;
I was wondering if CCP planned to introduce the other racial vehicles before starting work on the tier 2 vehicles (logi and assualt)?
Personally I think it would be wise to fill out the entire roster of base vehicles as long as you guys are attempting to go back to square one. |
I-Shayz-I
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
982
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 19:59:00 -
[180] - Quote
I'm not a vehicle user but...
I do think you should just limit the ammo thing for vehicles to just one module that increases the amount of ammo by a percent. Having multiple ammo "boxes" for each type of weapon sounds like a bad idea to me.
It's not like we have nanohives that only replenish a certain type of ammo, so why don't vehicles get that same technology? |
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