Understood. But think in the specific case of the ADS there should be an exception if possible; the principle of starting from the ground up is well and good, but don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

The ADS is just a completely different combat role from anything else in the game. Remove enforcers? Those tankers shrug and go back to using standard tanks. Remove scout LAVs? Can use a methana. Remove LLAVs? Well, the reps were already broken so no one used them for repping anyway and people will just use a LAV. But remove ADS... there is no similar replacement and people who were ADS pilots have nothing to fall back on except changing their entire gameplay experience.

Just some honest feedback. Thanks again for the 'work in progress' update.

Resists are going to be worse. Shorter activation times, longer cooldowns, plus you won't be able to run two and modulate them, you will need each of your low slots for a specific module. So unless you want to go without reps or plates, then you only have one hardener.

Just like last time, I don't like the general look of these changes, but even with these numbers it's hard for me to evaluate properly. Things come out when playing.

Overall, I have a negative reaction to the "waves of opportunity" rework for vehicles. Things I don't like, at a glance:
* AV will chase vehicles. As soon as cooldowns are off, vehicle will die. Forge gunners and swarm launcher players can be persistent and will chase
* How useful will a passive tank be against AV? It sounds to me like it might not be at all a viable build and will be vulnerable to dying quickly
* Having to time my attack for a "wave", and make sure I know my exit path, then exit, then sit back and wait for cooldowns while dodging AV that's chasing me, sounds very much like the opposite of fun. It sounds tedious
* 36 seconds (for armour) to make your entry, make the push, then retreat. 37 seconds (with complex and skills) to hide behind buildings until you're ready for your next 36 second dart.

I probably simply don't understand. For now, I cannot see how these changes are going to be better or, more importantly, fun. I just don't "get it" though, and maybe it will all come together when it's released and the approach will click with me.

I... i.... i just noticed the large missile launcher changes

is.. is it true. they are no longer burst but non stop hail of explosive goodness

Im going to need a new pair of pants after reading this. I forgive you for removing enforcers that i skilled into. and LLAV's. My proto missile launcher is going to have much much fun

Here's my initial takes on this,

• Dropships are still getting treated like light aircrafts when they are medium aircrafts. When comparing the new base HP, the LIGHT assault vehicle still has more base HP than the MEDIUM aircraft. I understand that the dropships have more modules and CPU/PG, but the base stats should also be reflective of what they are.
• There are way too many skills that do nothing but unlock stuff. I thought we made it clear we do not want that.
• Why are all racial vehicles being unlocked with the same skill? I mean, I'm not necessarily for or against it, but there needs to be consistency. If you are going to do it this way, then apply the same concept to dropsuits. If you will not, then make each race's vehicle it's own skill. Again, consistency is key.
• Small rail turrets still appear to be useless, especially when say a small missile turret does more damage with faster rate of fire and more splash radius.
• I understand the desire to go back to the basics, but you should really reconsider keeping the assault dropships in. These are more than just a subset of dropships, they are essentially their own vehicle class all together, a quasi fighter if you will. They have become far too fundamental to keep out even if just temporarily, and keeping them in will be crucial for gathering data on vehicle-to-vehicle combat balance.

Other than that, things are looking mostly good!

This is a HUGE missed opportunity for adding vehicle capacitors. CCP could reuse code from the stamina system to make it happen, and it makes so-much-more sense to balance around capacitors than long cooldowns. It gives drivers/pilots more freedom and flexibility which should help them perform better. It's easy to manage a single resource than multiple long cooldowns. It still allows for waves of opportunity and is consistent with your stated goals for vehicles. It would lead to more diversity of fittings, which should make the battlefield more interesting. It would appeal to existing EVE players and might draw them into DUST and vice-versa. It would set DUST above every other FPS in the market by having truly rich/deep tactical vehicle combat. It opens the door for so many interesting possibilities later.

There will literally never be a better time to add capacitors. It will only get harder to do later as you balance around long cooldowns timers, and may get so bad that you decide to never implement them because it would require another total rebalance. I beg you to reconsider.

Also, removing slots is stupid. It will result in very little diversity of fitting, making vehicles very similar, predictable and boring as hell.

Rendering, while playing into the overall balance, isn't related to vehicle balancing. It's a symptom of a disease, not the disease itself.

Just as well, Breach Forge Gun requires the user to be completely immobile and Forge Guns in their entirety require the user to move slower when charging. A small window but a window none-the-less. Even then they have a maximum range of <350m (I'm not sure of this number specifically, I just know they can't go beyond that). Fix the rendering and that's no longer a problem for Rail-guns with 600 meter (redline) range.

Limiting the amount of slots makes me a bit sad and worried that the amount of "different" HAVs we will see on the battlefield will decrease due to customization limits.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Also nobody is going to believe that speel about "Temporarily" removing those dropships, since you said the same thing when you removed the marauders...

EDIT: I do have a concern with the posted stats for shields, you said in theory the shields would allow you to "hit-and-run" and were supposed to have a faster recovery time but lower EHP then the armor equivalents... However, I'm worrying that your new HP values are going to make it difficult for any shield HAV to survive any "quick" engagement without being blown to smithereens. A fast recovery time is meaningless if your EHP is too low to survive the "run" part of hit-and-run... It honestly looks like shield tanks are even more fragile then they are now, and that is deeply concerning for me...

Still somewhat disappointed in skills only unlocking...they need to provide a benefit.

My first concern is the ability to recall and redeploy. Its really quite feasible to use your active mods, run to the redline, call in new vehicle, recall old one. Without ever having to "wait" for cooldown timers.

Rails have too much ammo imo, with that total you can spend almost the entire game shooting and not run out.

Its really difficult to know exactly how much this will effect since pretty much this is an entire overhaul. Those are my first impressions. Can't really give an honest opinion since there are so many changes...without a viable way to test in game, its difficult.

Lastly, no response on giving back SP for vehicles your are removing....Or a SP refund for all vehicle related skills since this is such a large change in how skills are effecting aspects of vehicles.

Any possibility for someone to build/release a fitting tool?

Thanks for your hard work

So much bitching about CCP 'nerfing' tanks and not an ounce of feedback. You guys are doing an awesome job of the communication CCP is finally doing.

Just shooting yourselves in the face and complaining that it hurts. Pretty soon you'll be right back to bitching that CCP doesn't talk.

Here's my feedback:

- Rendering and draw distance is a major problem but I look forward to the fixes in 1.5 - maybe they'll be ironed out.
- Swarms do far too much damage for such ease of use.
- Plasma Cannons still need to be decided on whether they're anti-infantry or anti-vehicle, and then changed accordingly.
- Forge Guns are really well balanced right now but their damage might need to be turned down slightly in accordance with these new changes.
- Large Missiles need a larger splash radius for them to be suppression weapons, right now they have less radius than small arms.
- Small railguns need a complete rework as they're fair too difficult to use with too little damage for when you actually hit someone (I have yet to ever successfully hit anything with them)
- Small Blasters might need a slight range boost as giving them ammo counts as well as overheat makes them very conditional.
- Blasters need to have a slight blast radius otherwise they fall victim to hit detection issues, they previous had this and it made a Small Scattered Blaster on the back of an LAV an amazing tide-turner when aiming at the feet.
- Small Turrets (all of them) need turret shields.
- Remote Repair and Shield Transport modules need to have a better control scheme and longer range. I would suggest having them replace turrets for use with vehicles and infantry repair modules to work in a sphere around the vehicle.
- WP rewards added for repairing friendlies. Not having any makes Vehicle Logistics a tough job.