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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
LudiKure ninda
Black Phoenix Mercenaries
34
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 00:16:00 -
[241] - Quote
3 low slots on the maddy?????3 high on gunny???? what?
logi dropship removed,enforcers removed,no new tanks?
skills are fine,but com on ccp,another tank nerf....
I WANT MY WASTED SP BACK....I need Duvolle! and all the infantry stuff, |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S.
3597
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 00:18:00 -
[242] - Quote
ladwar wrote:gbghg wrote:PG mods are there, look beneath scanning mods on the list, also i spent some time this evening using the released numbers to throw together a couple of myron fits, i see two main areas of concern where the fitting system is, the number of modules available and their resource costs, and the resource cost of turrets. at a minimum small turrets are taking up around 250PG with maxed fitting skills, now given that dropships such as the myron only have 725PG it absolutely murders the tanking ability of the vehicle, i'd estimate that the EHP loss between a fit with no turrets and one with turrets could go up to 1000EHP easily, we essentially see a situation where you can prioritize tank over offensive capability and passenger capacity, since seats are tied to turret. i have to say that i think a reduction to the pg/cpu costs of turrets should be reduced.
the other issue i see is the lack of low cost modules, from my fitting attempts i kept running into the same situation, i would end up with not enough CPU/PG to fit modules and empty slots, sometimes 2 lows, sometimes 1 low, 1 high, right now we have things like energized plating and shield amps to fill the useful low cost niche, the removal of them will be felt, we need something to fill that niche before long otherwise slots are going to waste. no they are not. aferburners = dropships nitros boost = ground vehicles nitros CRU= CRU you need to take a second look. they are gone as the enforcers, LLAV, SLAV, ADS, logi DS GONE, forever! if its not on the chart it didn't make the cut... CPU mods did but who needs them on vehicles really, never ran into that issue. PG mods = powergrid upgrades
they're in the scanner section for some reason, go take another look, the complex provides a 1.2 bonus which im assuming means a 20% PG bonus, would be nice if a dev could confirm that though.
also am i the only one who noticed one of the most intriguing and possibly most important sentences in the entire thread?
Quote:When taking fire shields will not regenerate (not until the second wave of module types is introduced, at any rate) |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
1801
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 00:23:00 -
[243] - Quote
gbghg wrote:ladwar wrote:gbghg wrote:PG mods are there, look beneath scanning mods on the list, also i spent some time this evening using the released numbers to throw together a couple of myron fits, i see two main areas of concern where the fitting system is, the number of modules available and their resource costs, and the resource cost of turrets. at a minimum small turrets are taking up around 250PG with maxed fitting skills, now given that dropships such as the myron only have 725PG it absolutely murders the tanking ability of the vehicle, i'd estimate that the EHP loss between a fit with no turrets and one with turrets could go up to 1000EHP easily, we essentially see a situation where you can prioritize tank over offensive capability and passenger capacity, since seats are tied to turret. i have to say that i think a reduction to the pg/cpu costs of turrets should be reduced.
the other issue i see is the lack of low cost modules, from my fitting attempts i kept running into the same situation, i would end up with not enough CPU/PG to fit modules and empty slots, sometimes 2 lows, sometimes 1 low, 1 high, right now we have things like energized plating and shield amps to fill the useful low cost niche, the removal of them will be felt, we need something to fill that niche before long otherwise slots are going to waste. no they are not. aferburners = dropships nitros boost = ground vehicles nitros CRU= CRU you need to take a second look. they are gone as the enforcers, LLAV, SLAV, ADS, logi DS GONE, forever! if its not on the chart it didn't make the cut... CPU mods did but who needs them on vehicles really, never ran into that issue. PG mods = powergrid upgrades they're in the scanner section for some reason, go take another look, the complex provides a 1.2 bonus which im assuming means a 20% PG bonus, would be nice if a dev could confirm that though. also am i the only one who noticed one of the most intriguing and possibly most important sentences in the entire thread? Quote:When taking fire shields will not regenerate (not until the second wave of module types is introduced, at any rate) wow.. i just seen they are in scanners not under them, thanks
and no people been ask if small arms will stop it, which would be insane. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S.
3597
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 00:24:00 -
[244] - Quote
no problem, less panic and hysterical posting benefits all of us. |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative..
764
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 00:30:00 -
[245] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:The Logistics and Assault Dropships are going to be taken out temporarily, but they should be returning in the future. As was said in the first post, we want to go back to basics and get the core interactions working first. Then we can look at branching back out once we have a solid foundation.
This is sensible and good. |
crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1774
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 00:36:00 -
[246] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:CCP Logibro;
I was wondering if CCP planned to introduce the other racial vehicles before starting work on the tier 2 vehicles (logi and assualt)?
Personally I think it would be wise to fill out the entire roster of base vehicles as long as you guys are attempting to go back to square one.
What do yo think you are? A competent game designer!?
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Xocoyol Zaraoul
Superior Genetics
1177
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 00:36:00 -
[247] - Quote
Rogatien Merc wrote:Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:I think just about anyone would agree that a tank with three people inside of it should be more powerful than a tank with only one. Crunching the numbers with the new modules and such, removing both small turrets is going to sacrifice more DPS then you will ever gain from EHP, putting you at an advantage against infantry but at a noticeable disadvantage in HAV vs HAV fights. OMGWTF this guy things gunners are... are... USEFUL
I've killed countless Maddies due to a tricked out Pure Missile Tank with gunners. Yes, i think gunners are useful half the time (The other half it is an idiot who shoots at the MCC giving away my position). Luckily running with a close group of friends means I can usually have good gunners at peak times and having an extra thousand+ damage a salvo is nothing to sneeze at when killing another HAV. |
KalOfTheRathi
Nec Tributis
781
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 00:41:00 -
[248] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote: -- snip garbage -- Peace, I'm out. This is from you, @Aeon Amadi?
Seriously you have contributed more Trolling, Whining and QQ Kitten threads than most yet you are stating you don't care and others are spewing acid. To top that off CCP/Shanghai has a good concept, when have you ever liked anything CCP has done much less CCP/Shanghai?
Peace is you being out, indeed.
|
Nguruthos IX
PEN 15 CLUB
1953
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 00:45:00 -
[249] - Quote
ladwar wrote:
and no people been ask if small arms will stop it, which would be insane.
That's just the kinda CrrAAaaaaZZZZyyyYYyy stuff a CCP might do! |
Nguruthos IX
PEN 15 CLUB
1953
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 00:46:00 -
[250] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:The Logistics and Assault Dropships are going to be taken out temporarily, but they should be returning in the future. As was said in the first post, we want to go back to basics and get the core interactions working first. Then we can look at branching back out once we have a solid foundation. This is sensible and good. It is at first but honestly if the next patch does not contain logi vehicles, and the one after that assault at least then it is no longer 'good'. |
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Lanius Pulvis
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 00:46:00 -
[251] - Quote
Firstly, I haven't lived DUST as long as many of the previous posters, but it does seem inevitable to me that changes will happen whether we want them to or not. Just as in war TTPs are ever changing on both sides of the equation, the game world cannot stay static, it would eventually bore the core of old guard players and offer nothing new and exciting to draw in new blood. Ultimately CCP runs a business as well, and though that business is built on giving the players what they want, to draw them back time after time, no business can succeed with only it's original customer base. I bow to the inevitable, CHANGE WILL HAPPEN!
That being said, if things are going to change I'd like to tell CCP what I'd like, not just what I don't want. 1) Greater modularity: if I can equip 2 turrets on a DS why not let me put them both on the same side if I want. And likewise if I can fit 3 on an ADS why not put them all on the nose. The latter suggestion would likely require something like splitting which guns are active with your R2, e.g. I have 2 blasters for anti-personnel then I switch to a single missile launcher for AV.
2) More interdependency: GIVE US HOMING MISSILES ON ADS; however, in order to lock target, a scout must paint it by laser.
3) More creative defense: the shield or armor debate seems too limiting, real tanks can deploy smoke screens, real combat aircraft can launch chaff or flares. These are consumable commodities whose use must be timed properly and once deployed are expended. It's kind of like one get out of jail free card.
4) More information: U.S. military ground vehicles in this day and age can pinpoint other similarly equipped vehicles with a tracking device and coordinate attacks via this device. Combat aircraft are equipped with systems to identify radar locks by missiles. Not to mention aircraft have altimeters and airspeed somewhat prominently displayed.
5) More Infantry equipment: already soldiers on the battlefield have drones, motion sensors, signal jamming equipment, surely some of these could be brought into play. Imagine a sniper who now has the choice, nano-hive or an early warning motion sensor on a likely approach to his position. Or a Logi who can actively jam sensors within a certain radius. These all have the element of rock/paper/scissors, all can be defeated...or can defeat something else.
And maybe, just maybe you should take some of those original beta testers, the guys and gals who have stuck around, taken noobs under their wings and all around showed an unparalleled devotion to what others would dismiss as just a game, and have them beta test all your "fixes" before actually rolling them out. I for one would like to know that your new vehicles work in practice before I start skilling into them. I was thoroughly excited to pilot an ADS, and then today's forum and suddenly I feel like my character is in limbo for however many months the update takes.
You've created a dynamic and nearly self sufficient layer to a universe many of us already love from EVE, I'm going to err on the side of hope and say, I trust you to make DUST a better place to game. Just please don't forget, you can only do it with our help. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2544
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 00:47:00 -
[252] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:CCP what the hell are you thinking removing ADS and Logi Dropships....
But I like the new skills since it means HAVers aren't penalised for specing tanks when the new racial varients are released... whenever that is, and skills that affect Active modules. I think I very slightly..... (greatly over reacted) in hindsight some of the changes are great. |
Komodo Jones
Chaotik Serenity
150
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 00:48:00 -
[253] - Quote
Is the tier multiplier what affects the turret stats? Because for alot of em nothing changes between militia and proto besides the fact that proto costs more cpu pg and im guessing isk. I'm sure you're already working on is but now that turrets, specifically blasters, have limited ammo, they need more damage and should definitely get better as the levels go up.
The equivalent of an LAV is a humvee and basically what you have attached to it is a sub machine gun not a 50 cal. This is the future, don't put a pea shooter on my car gimme a cannon, 'MURICA! |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
1802
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 00:49:00 -
[254] - Quote
for everyone wanting to know the RoF for blasters its 857 for smalls and 428 for large nothing change in RoF |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative..
764
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 01:05:00 -
[255] - Quote
The new 'soft' skill bonuses seem very good in general.
No more mandatory-to-have +Universal PG +Universal CPU or +Damage. That is pure blessing. |
Blaze Ashra
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
19
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 01:09:00 -
[256] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:True Adamance wrote:CCP what the hell are you thinking removing ADS and Logi Dropships....
But I like the new skills since it means HAVers aren't penalised for specing tanks when the new racial varients are released... whenever that is, and skills that affect Active modules. I think I very slightly..... (greatly over reacted) in hindsight some of the changes are great.
I'm kind of on the fence on this one, mainly because of the removal of ADS and logi DS. I am not willing to spend 2+ months in the ground game. I was trying to hold out to play as an Amarr assault dropship pilot but now, I'm probably going to go passive sp for a while when these changes hit.
i like a lot of the changes but the elimination of my preferred playstyle just overshadows it. I would have been ecstatic with a price cut to enforcers, assault dropships and turrets. Now all we'll even have out of those are the turrets. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
1802
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 01:18:00 -
[257] - Quote
Hexen Trickster wrote:SteelDark Knight wrote:Hexen Trickster wrote:I... i.... i just noticed the large missile launcher changes
is.. is it true. they are no longer burst but non stop hail of explosive goodness
Im going to need a new pair of pants after reading this. I forgive you for removing enforcers that i skilled into. and LLAV's. My proto missile launcher is going to have much much fun It sounds good but, I think the limited clip, ammo, and what looks like a 10 (7.5 after skills) second reload time may limit it somewhat. However, the ALPHA damage looks like it may be extreme. If I'm reading this right with direct hit damage you could put up 6000 damage in less than 2 seconds? Lets get some horrid math shall we for proto because thats what id be using 539.5 damage now im using a 10% damage booster becuase i can so about 593.45 damage a ROF of 1 shot per .15 of a second but i have 5% reduction in that so .1475 Thats 4 shots a second ( i think or its 6) so about 2414 DPS Impressive. for some reason my internet spaceship can only do ~700 CCP can i fit a gunlogi on my raven instead of torp launchers i just did some math and w/o resistance and using the new damage amps you get a DPS of 4,675 using a proto large missile turret. that is just wow... the amps give 1.3 for 20 seconds btw and you get 6.7 rounds per second about |
Uravm0d groundforce
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
19
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 01:39:00 -
[258] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:I'm really happy to see CCP take the positive steps in allowing the community to provide feedback regarding these changes before they are actually implemented. I hope this will become the norm in the future and not the exception.
I'm really happy aswell but...
...Seriously No Seriously dont give me S#^t riddled with errors. Really with the info provided its impossible to fit a hypothetical tank viable to call in.
CCP i have a few questions that im sure most tankers would like you to dwell over
What happened to risk verses reward? Why do you think tank vs tank is not fun? Why do you want to make tanks even harder to drive?
Scenario: I'm running a tank in a squad of 6, and i have a tank with two seats for my two squad members one of which makes it in, the other seat is stolen by a blueberry scrub who wont leave my tank when i run out of ammo. My role for the rest of the game is to hide = fun?
I run both AV and Tank. As AV i have no issue with keeping tanks away from the team solo, as long as i'm not being automatically spawned in its cross hairs. WHY THE F DO TANKS NEED EVEN MORE NERFS?
I get where your coming from the madruger and gunloggi are op for standard tanks and the massive gap between them and malita. I get you don't want tanks to play king of the hill but...
...Seriously the way to make vehicles fun is to make it profitable and with the info provided I would say they would have to cost the same as a drop suit.
Thats my verdict. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2545
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 01:51:00 -
[259] - Quote
Blaze Ashra wrote:True Adamance wrote:True Adamance wrote:CCP what the hell are you thinking removing ADS and Logi Dropships....
But I like the new skills since it means HAVers aren't penalised for specing tanks when the new racial varients are released... whenever that is, and skills that affect Active modules. I think I very slightly..... (greatly over reacted) in hindsight some of the changes are great. I'm kind of on the fence on this one, mainly because of the removal of ADS and logi DS. I am not willing to spend 2+ months in the ground game. I was trying to hold out to play as an Amarr assault dropship pilot but now, I'm probably going to go passive sp for a while when these changes hit. i like a lot of the changes but the elimination of my preferred playstyle just overshadows it. I would have been ecstatic with a price cut to enforcers, assault dropships and turrets. Now all we'll even have out of those are the turrets. I can understand why you would be. I initially thought it was a terrible idea, then I reconsidered.
Perhaps this is also to aid in changing the doctrine of Drop Ships.
Consider the standard dropsuit like the Littlebird or ever a Black Hawk, a small fast moving, light, helicopter capable of transporting the squad, then if we consider the ADS as a sort of Attack Helicopter like an Apachi we see the Air to Ground capacity of dropships open up while we all of fighters themselves to become the Air to Air, Air to Tank capable vehicles. |
Poonmunch
Sanguis Defense Syndicate
438
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 02:31:00 -
[260] - Quote
IT ALL NEEDS TO BE NERFED BEFORE IT GOES LIVE!
Oh, wait. They want ... input.
THEY WANT INPUT!
HEY GUYS, THEY WANT INPUT!
Munch |
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Ghural
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
139
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 02:32:00 -
[261] - Quote
So... Um .. Seriously. Assault drop ships are out of the game and "should be returned"?
One thing with dropships. Please disable the first person camera. It serves no purpose except to infuriate you when you accidentally activate it. |
Blaze Ashra
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
20
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 02:37:00 -
[262] - Quote
True Adamance wrote: I can understand why you would be. I initially thought it was a terrible idea, then I reconsidered.
Perhaps this is also to aid in changing the doctrine of Drop Ships.
Consider the standard dropsuit like the Littlebird or ever a Black Hawk, a small fast moving, light, helicopter capable of transporting the squad, then if we consider the ADS as a sort of Attack Helicopter like an Apachi we see the Air to Ground capacity of dropships open up while we all of fighters themselves to become the Air to Air, Air to Tank capable vehicles.
Well, the problem with that style of play is infantry has to be willing to get into your vehicle. I can't even count the amount of times I purposefully landed inbetween a single bluedot and a team of reds to give them some cover and a way out, only for them to go around me and die.
With the buff to hardeners and hp I doubt we're going to have the floating pinata problem anymore so long as the reps are on par with what we have currently. Stat wise it seems great, and everyone, even tankers get a huge EHP buff without a speed penalty, so that's a boost to survivability and small cost reduction.
Mechanically, I'm okay with the changes but the fun factor takes a nose drive when almost everything you do is dependent on luck and others. |
Blaze Ashra
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
20
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 02:39:00 -
[263] - Quote
Ghural wrote:So... Um .. Seriously. Assault drop ships are out of the game and "should be returned"?
One thing with dropships. Please disable the first person camera. It serves no purpose except to infuriate you when you accidentally activate it.
It's actually pretty useful when you're in a dogfight, rare as they may are. |
Keri Starlight
Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
576
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 02:44:00 -
[264] - Quote
Ok, I'm really, really confused.
Please, correct me if I'm wrong (seriously, please).
Vehicle rebalance basically consists in a HP and slot number decrease?
So it is a... vehicle nerf? |
Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
843
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 02:47:00 -
[265] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:What am I missing? Blasters don't look like they improve as tiers improve...?
Thank the blaster rifle someone else noticed this. I hope you take a look at that CCP as there is currently no reason at all to use non-basic turrets.
I think most of the turrets are essentially identical as stated on this list. |
Harpyja
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
604
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 02:51:00 -
[266] - Quote
I like the missile changes! 12 missiles per clip, fully automatic, little over a tenth of a second between shots. So, about 1.5 second to dish out over 6000 damage. I don't mind the 7.5s reload time with max skills at all. You'll be dead when I start reloading :D
Why can't these go into 1.6 damnit! Squaaaa!!! |
KenKaniff69
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
527
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 03:05:00 -
[267] - Quote
Where are active or passive heat syncs? Those 30 seconds of fighting before I have to retreat better not have me overheating twice or more because they were removed. |
Winsaucerer
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
217
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 03:06:00 -
[268] - Quote
Uravm0d groundforce wrote:
...Seriously the way to make vehicles fun is to make it profitable and with the info provided I would say they would have to cost the same as a drop suit.
Thats my verdict.
Yep. What I think should be considered: * Reduce cost by a lot * Make tanks easier to kill by just a little bit
This way, you can afford to lose a tank maybe once or twice a battle, but they also don't dominate so much. The main issue with tanks is that they're quite hard to kill, and can kill a lot -- so infantry think they're too strong. However, one tank costs multiple battles worth of ISK, so tankers think they're too weak, because one loss means a few battles of earning that isk back. You can change a lot of people's expectations by reducing their power on the battle field by just a little, and reducing their cost by a whole lot, so that losing one or two in a battle isn't a problem.
I also think that CCP needs to eat less vegetables and more dessert. I am seriously wondering if the better thing is to just keep introducing new stuff, and balance while you go, rather than removing content and balancing the core. Each new thing in the game can significantly affect the balance of a whole range of things. So even if you succeed at balancing the core, that may not mean much at all once you throw new things in the mix.
Put it all out there, let the chips (so to speak) fall where they may, and then balance. Put all the pieces you can in as scaffolding, then build up around that. Dust 514 needs more dessert.
Also, please capacitors like EVE. That sounds great.
Caveat: I have not given these suggestions a great deal of thought. |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3246
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 03:07:00 -
[269] - Quote
CommanderBolt wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:The Attorney General wrote:RECON BY FIRE wrote:I don't see how you tankers aren't absolutely furious over this.
We all saw this coming. People thought tankers were just being cynical when we said they were going to nerf us again. Here we are, getting nerfed. Good thing these notes came out before I bought some aurum, now I know better. Thanks for saving me money CCP! So instead of whining about it, how about you propose something different? Aeon man, like people haven't been suggesting alternate ideas for like, ever. Especially over the last few months. So from this I can see that, LLAV`s are going? Same as some of the dropships including the assault dropship and that just makes me laugh so much! I can see why CCP is having problems. My god. Ever since "14th of may" release this game has fumbled like no other. Lets not even mention wasted SP people have put into assault dropships, logi lav`s etc... I guess being a healer / medic really isn't supported in this game.
All of those alternate ideas usually come with some sort of crazy proposal that's unmanageable. I've yet to see a completely un-bias AV vs Vehicle thread (despite many saying they were) and if any of them ever came close they were often dismissed because the person used militia -something-. Even then, it's as I said before, saying that there were alternatives presented previously is like saying you sent a letter to congress in the past. It gets lost and considering that it's outdated, not falling in with CCP's new concepts currently laid out, is largely irrelevant.
I'll stress the fact that they're balancing from the ground up, meaning that it's going to be a hell of a lot easier than trying to find the minute differences in all of the vehicles/turrets/modules and trying to tweak them so they're balanced when they truly won't be because you're either balancing against tanks or balancing against AV.
For the better part of a month or two now I've been part of a closed think-tank consisting of both AV specialists and Vehicle specialists and we've tossed ideas around. There was a point where I had gotten frustrated with the game and took time off but in the time that I was there our proposals were about as sane as they could have been. Mostly relating to the fact that certain vehicle had drawbacks in unnecessary places - like the Enforcers.
Now that those specializations are gone, CCP can balance from the ground up without trying to make weird specializations like the Black Ops HAVs or over-powered ones like the Logistics LAVs which served no purpose other than running people over due to repair modules being too difficult to use.
You can say that since 14th of May the game has fumbled, but there's been a lot of progress since then. Aim Assist, Match-maker, Planetary Conquest changes, Weapon and Dropsuit balancing (flaylock and Caldari Logi specifically), fixes to the Murder Taxi... We've gotten a lot accomplished. If you don't like the speed at which those things are accomplished, you're welcome to move on to another game. Dust will still be here when you get back and likely will be better when you do come back.
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SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
389
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 03:27:00 -
[270] - Quote
Halador Osiris wrote:Will small arms fire prevent shields from recharging?
Only if the shield is depleted, I think, hence the comment about packing a shield booster to kickstart the shield regen. |
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