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Announcement:Vehicle Changes and Beyond - Part 2

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Announcement:Vehicle Changes and Beyond - Part 2

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 9 post(s)

CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 2485	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:23:00 - [61] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: The Attorney General wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: I mean seriously, armor we could get with one plate and one repper is less than 6000. Armor resists look to be staying at about what they are now. Skill based resist and two carapace hardeners works out about the same as the new 60% modules, although the current have better active times and shorter cooldowns. So all in all an armor nerf, which is just what most of us feared. Without an AV nerf, tankers should all just quit. What two hardeners are you talking about? A plate and a repper, if we can fit them, then one hardener if we have anything left. Likely nothing in the highs. I don't see any PG expansion units, or diagnostic units. Screwing over shield, again. Powergrid Upgrade Unit and CPU Upgrade Unit. They're there still. CCP Logibro // EVE Universe Community Team // Distributor of Nanites // Patron Saint of Logistics @CCP_Logibro

Winsaucerer The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 207	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:23:00 - [62] - Quote Just like last time, I don't like the general look of these changes, but even with these numbers it's hard for me to evaluate properly. Things come out when playing. Overall, I have a negative reaction to the "waves of opportunity" rework for vehicles. Things I don't like, at a glance: * AV will chase vehicles. As soon as cooldowns are off, vehicle will die. Forge gunners and swarm launcher players can be persistent and will chase * How useful will a passive tank be against AV? It sounds to me like it might not be at all a viable build and will be vulnerable to dying quickly * Having to time my attack for a "wave", and make sure I know my exit path, then exit, then sit back and wait for cooldowns while dodging AV that's chasing me, sounds very much like the opposite of fun. It sounds tedious * 36 seconds (for armour) to make your entry, make the push, then retreat. 37 seconds (with complex and skills) to hide behind buildings until you're ready for your next 36 second dart. I probably simply don't understand. For now, I cannot see how these changes are going to be better or, more importantly, fun. I just don't "get it" though, and maybe it will all come together when it's released and the approach will click with me.
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 950	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:23:00 - [63] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: While we are on it, assuming these plans get readied up for 1.7, how long after that until we get the higher tiers of tanks? Reducing us to basic vehicles is tolerable for a month, but not three. I absolutely agree with that. The absolute base will become boring, as well as difficult to use if all anyone does is go straight to PRO AV again.
Blaze Ashra Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 15	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:24:00 - [64] - Quote OMG, my favorite is the changes to vehicle command. We will get all racial variants unlocked just from skilling into one of them is pure awesomeness. For dropship operations can we get a bonus to 20% to small turret clip size? Mainly to keep the rare dog fight from becoming an aerial ramming contest. The hardeners are a potential issue if you're giving a 60% damage reduction on armor and 40% on shields or vice versa. I'll edit this later, when I have more time to dedicate to this. Overall it seems like it will make things way more interstesting and opens up the floor for people who were holding out for racial vehicles. Well done guys.
Winsaucerer The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 207	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:25:00 - [65] - Quote Also, I too would like to know what's going to be done with existing modules/vehicles in inventory, and skills, when these changes come out. Also, are there going to be any changes to existing costs of vehicles along with these changes? The balance between vulnerability and cost of loss is a big factor in whether a vehicle is fun or not.
The Attorney General ZionTCD 1135	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:27:00 - [66] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Powergrid Upgrade Unit and CPU Upgrade Unit. They're there still. The Diagnostic Unit module granted a % increase to shields, shield recharge rate, and PG. Very good module for shield vehicles, not in the list anymore. I like switching the CPU mod to a high slot, because no one wanted to use one anyway.
Gorra Snell The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 148	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:28:00 - [67] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Gorra Snell wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Could you elaborate on the blast radius values for turrets? Yeah, they look...odd. Maybe they're listing circumferences now I hope not. Circumference is a terrible way to gauge blast range. Diameter is better, imo - the distance from one side of the blast to the other. Circumference is just unnecessary confusion. I was just going for topical humor: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=113191 ...I don't think they'd troll us quite that hard in reality.
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 1832	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:29:00 - [68] - Quote Blaze Ashra wrote: OMG, my favorite is the changes to vehicle command. We will get all racial variants unlocked just from skilling into one of them is pure awesomeness. For dropship operations can we get a bonus to 20% to small turret clip size? Mainly to keep the rare dog fight from becoming an aerial ramming contest. The hardeners are a potential issue if you're giving a 60% damage reduction on armor and 40% on shields or vice versa. I'll edit this later, when I have more time to dedicate to this. Overall it seems like it will make things way more interstesting and opens up the floor for people who were holding out for racial vehicles. Well done guys. I missed that. Does this mean we will be seeing the same thing for dropsuits?
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 950	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:30:00 - [69] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Lol, lol, and lol. One use of a heat sink module and blaster ammo is gone. Fewer slots than current MLT vehicles. A Limbus now will have more slots than the Madrugar once this comes. No 180mm plate. One good thing is that we now get fitting optimization skills to reduce resource requirements. What we really want is explanations as to why he made the changes this way and not any other way. I mean seriously, armor we could get with one plate and one repper is less than 6000. 180 plates were replaced with Complex 120's (roughly the same armor values) Better Armor Hardeners means you can survive longer on the front-line. Resistances are always going to be better than raw HP when the **** hits the fan. LOLLLLLL NOOOOO 180 poly gives me 3128 each.
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 950	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:34:00 - [70] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: The Attorney General wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: I mean seriously, armor we could get with one plate and one repper is less than 6000. Armor resists look to be staying at about what they are now. Skill based resist and two carapace hardeners works out about the same as the new 60% modules, although the current have better active times and shorter cooldowns. So all in all an armor nerf, which is just what most of us feared. Without an AV nerf, tankers should all just quit. What two hardeners are you talking about? A plate and a repper, if we can fit them, then one hardener if we have anything left. Likely nothing in the highs. I don't see any PG expansion units, or diagnostic units. Screwing over shield, again. Powergrid Upgrade Unit and CPU Upgrade Unit. They're there still. PG upgrade modules were put under scanner. That's why I missed it.

SteelDark Knight Imperfects Negative-Feedback 117	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:35:00 - [71] - Quote Looks at small missile launcher damage and splash stats...
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 950	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:36:00 - [72] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Powergrid Upgrade Unit and CPU Upgrade Unit. They're there still. The Diagnostic Unit module granted a % increase to shields, shield recharge rate, and PG. Very good module for shield vehicles, not in the list anymore. I like switching the CPU mod to a high slot, because no one wanted to use one anyway. We rarely have problems with CPU anyway, so of course they became useless.
The Attorney General ZionTCD 1135	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:37:00 - [73] - Quote Looking at the shield booster numbers they make no sense. 286 CPU, and a massive 1048 to be able to not even rep back one Ishukone Assault Forge round? And you can do that once every thirty seconds with max skills? Sounds like fun being that tanker. Move up, get hit, start to retreat, and pray that no one comes after you.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 1564	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:39:00 - [74] - Quote Dear CCP, I hope you recognize me as a patient player that understands the difficulty of crafting software. I've supported you through difficult times and buggy code. I've tried to explain to the impatient and the younglings how changes can't happen overnight and have spent far more real cash than I probably should have. With that being said I hope you don't read this as a rant. The changes you are presenting do not involve adding expensive modeling, animation or other art. Instead, existing assets are being removed. Other than changes to statistics the only modifications that I see involve code to support ammunition for turrets and the removing of seats when small turrets are not added. I do not understand why this is taking three months to deliver. Balancing can be difficult but I see several tables with the proposed numbers in place. Are statistics of everything hard-coded in the game? Is that data not pulled from a database where it can be easily updated? Why have integration issues caused these changes to be pushed back to 1.7? I know you won't comment on the state of the DUST code itself. As a senior software engineer that was made responsible for a massively broken application I know I don't tell the customer how bad it is but this smells of something bad. This has been a rough year for your customers as we wait for what seems like simple assets. Adding a weapon, suit or vehicle in our preferred race seems to take forever. Your terrain and structure teams seem to be delivering though. At least we have that. I guess I just want an up-front answer as to what is going on with development. Why does it seem like we are waiting forever for new content and then current content is now being removed? Then, there is the PVE that I'm guessing has been shelved indefinitely. Dev blogs and posts that are "written" also seem to take weeks or more to be posted. I recently started on vehicles but with Assault Dropships being removed I'm going back to infantry. I'd ask for a clear plan for the future but those haven't reflected reality so there is no point. Just give me something to look forward too. Show me there is a bright light at the end of this dark tunnel. Tell me something exciting is coming this year. ~~ Reav Hannari aka Rees Noturana
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6638	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:39:00 - [75] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: Move up, get hit, start to retreat, and pray that no one comes after you. How people spawn in with an Ishukone and don't have an LAV immediately on hand are absolutely beyond my line of reasoning. I already hound vehicles like a demon.... ::sigh::
Brush Master HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 884	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:41:00 - [76] - Quote My opinion is that if you release this vehicle update without logi/assault versions of the dropships, you will lose what is left of the pilots. The main reason being, you have guys that have spent most or all their points in dropships being reduced to a normal dropship vs proto av for 2 months or more till you reintroduce them. I would rather the vehicle update be delayed further to include them then have to deal with a normal dropship only for months.
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 950	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:41:00 - [77] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: Looking at the shield booster numbers they make no sense. 286 CPU, and a massive 1048 to be able to not even rep back one Ishukone Assault Forge round? And you can do that once every thirty seconds with max skills? Sounds like fun being that tanker. Move up, get hit, start to retreat, and pray that no one comes after you. Seconded
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6638	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:41:00 - [78] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: This has been a rough year for your customers as we wait for what seems like simple assets. Adding a weapon, suit or vehicle in our preferred race seems to take forever. Your terrain and structure teams seem to be delivering though. At least we have that. I guess I just want an up-front answer as to what is going on with development. Why does it seem like we are waiting forever for new content and then current content is now being removed? Then, there is the PVE that I'm guessing has been shelved indefinitely. Dev blogs and posts that are "written" also seem to take weeks or more to be posted.
RECON BY FIRE Internal Rebellion 253	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:42:00 - [79] - Quote I don't see how you tankers aren't absolutely furious over this. As an AV player, and sometimes tanker on an alt, every single one of these changes looks like pure garbage to me. I see so many problems with this system that I cannot even begin to try and suggest changes to it. At least theres a plus side for me, Ill get to kill more tanks and do so easier.
The Attorney General ZionTCD 1136	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:46:00 - [80] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: How people spawn in with an Ishukone and don't have an LAV immediately on hand are absolutely beyond my line of reasoning. I already hound vehicles like a demon.... CCP has never considered this I guess. The first month of the build that this drops with is going to be a bloodbath if there are no changes to AV. In most pub matches there is nothing stopping a squad on enemy from just rolling on you. These types of tanks won't have good odds of surviving a match.

Hexen Trickster Industrial removal service 86	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:47:00 - [81] - Quote I... i.... i just noticed the large missile launcher changes is.. is it true. they are no longer burst but non stop hail of explosive goodness Im going to need a new pair of pants after reading this. I forgive you for removing enforcers that i skilled into. and LLAV's. My proto missile launcher is going to have much much fun
ChromeBreaker SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1333	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:47:00 - [82] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: This has been a rough year for your customers as we wait for what seems like simple assets. Adding a weapon, suit or vehicle in our preferred race seems to take forever. Your terrain and structure teams seem to be delivering though. At least we have that. I guess I just want an up-front answer as to what is going on with development. Why does it seem like we are waiting forever for new content and then current content is now being removed? Then, there is the PVE that I'm guessing has been shelved indefinitely. Dev blogs and posts that are "written" also seem to take weeks or more to be posted. Where did this come from?...
The Attorney General ZionTCD 1138	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:49:00 - [83] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: I don't see how you tankers aren't absolutely furious over this. We all saw this coming. People thought tankers were just being cynical when we said they were going to nerf us again. Here we are, getting nerfed. Good thing these notes came out before I bought some aurum, now I know better. Thanks for saving me money CCP!
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2507	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:51:00 - [84] - Quote Here's my initial takes on this, Dropships are still getting treated like light aircrafts when they are medium aircrafts. When comparing the new base HP, the LIGHT assault vehicle still has more base HP than the MEDIUM aircraft. I understand that the dropships have more modules and CPU/PG, but the base stats should also be reflective of what they are. There are way too many skills that do nothing but unlock stuff. I thought we made it clear we do not want that. Why are all racial vehicles being unlocked with the same skill? I mean, I'm not necessarily for or against it, but there needs to be consistency. If you are going to do it this way, then apply the same concept to dropsuits. If you will not, then make each race's vehicle it's own skill. Again, consistency is key. Small rail turrets still appear to be useless, especially when say a small missile turret does more damage with faster rate of fire and more splash radius. I understand the desire to go back to the basics, but you should really reconsider keeping the assault dropships in. These are more than just a subset of dropships, they are essentially their own vehicle class all together, a quasi fighter if you will. They have become far too fundamental to keep out even if just temporarily, and keeping them in will be crucial for gathering data on vehicle-to-vehicle combat balance. Other than that, things are looking mostly good!
Grimmiers 0uter.Heaven 235	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:52:00 - [85] - Quote I have two questions. The ROF for the small blaster is .07 which doesn't make sense to me being used to bullets per minute. Also what are small turrets going to be used for if their damage is capped at 25 for every tier level. I saw that the efficiency rating was bumped up to 60% which is good, but I want to know if lav vs lav using small turrets will still be a laughable fight.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 1565	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:53:00 - [86] - Quote ChromeBreaker wrote: Where did this come from?... Let' see... CCP announces changes that take months to deliver and end up removing content. It's a rare and special day when something is actually added.
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 950	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:54:00 - [87] - Quote Waiting for our resident tank whiners to chime in, even though they have no idea what it's like to pilot.
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 3232	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:55:00 - [88] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: I don't see how you tankers aren't absolutely furious over this. We all saw this coming. People thought tankers were just being cynical when we said they were going to nerf us again. Here we are, getting nerfed. Good thing these notes came out before I bought some aurum, now I know better. Thanks for saving me money CCP! So instead of whining about it, how about you propose something different?
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 1565	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:55:00 - [89] - Quote Why were racial skills removed?
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 950	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:56:00 - [90] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: The Attorney General wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: I don't see how you tankers aren't absolutely furious over this. We all saw this coming. People thought tankers were just being cynical when we said they were going to nerf us again. Here we are, getting nerfed. Good thing these notes came out before I bought some aurum, now I know better. Thanks for saving me money CCP! So instead of whining about it, how about you propose something different? Have you missed a boatload of threads to improve tanks?



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