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Announcement:Vehicle Changes and Beyond - Part 2

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Announcement:Vehicle Changes and Beyond - Part 2

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 9 post(s)

CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 2466	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:00:00 - [1] - Quote Hi guys, We said the other day that we would share the stats for the vehicles and now that day has finally come! These are the current stats that we are testing with in our internal build of the game. Here you will find base stats for the vehicle types, the modules, the skills and the turrets. They are not set in stone, we are still actively working with them so weGÇÖll be interested to hear your feedback. To put this in some context IGÇÖd like to take a sec to reiterate what I ran through before. Short version: WeGÇÖve stripped out a lot of the GÇ£noiseGÇ¥ so that we can focus on building a solid foundation for the vehicles that we can expand on. Central to this is the balance between active and passive bonuses creating what weGÇÖve been referring to as GÇÿwaves of opportunityGÇÖ in combat (be it with AV infantry or other vehicles). Long version: Many of you will have read this before but I think it bears repeating because it really covers everything that weGÇÖve done here: THE PLAN The goal is a simple one, make vehicles fun! The plan, however, is somewhat more intricate and will be implemented in a number of stages over the coming days and weeks, with the aim being for the changes to see release after 1.6. Remove GÇ£noiseGÇ¥ so that we can focus on the core archetypes. Right now there are simply too many things doing too much all at once. Module offerings will be streamlined to just the most necessary archetypes. Once weGÇÖve established a solid foundation weGÇÖll start to introduce types and build back out. Similarly, vehicle variations will be reduced and then re-implemented properly once the base interactions are working well. Skill bonuses will be adjusted. Rebuild with a clear combat philosophy in mind. There are a number of issues with vehicle combat at the moment, but most of these are symptomatic of a bigger issue: vehicles have no clear role on the battlefield. Vehicles need to be powerful, but not overpowered. They need to be vulnerable, but not weak. TheyGÇÖve been all of these things at various points in DUSTGÇÖs development, but theyGÇÖve never quite found their niche. We hope to correct that by: Make base vehicles susceptible. An unfitted vehicle is little more than a weak hull. Base HP does not make a vehicle powerful. Only through fitting can a vehicle become a true threat on the battlefield. Active vs. passive modules. There will be a far greater emphasis on active module use than ever before. The intent here is to create GÇ£waves of opportunityGÇ¥ that allow vehicles to be devastatingGÇª temporarily. Active modules will greatly enhance a vehicleGÇÖs attributes, but when they enter cooldown, the vehicle is left exposed and vulnerable to attack (more on this below). This back-and-forth allows infantry to engage vehicles, but do so knowing that the vehicleGÇÖs pilot has a short window in which he can drastically alter the outcome of any engagement. Clear usage profiles for modules so players intuitively know and understand why itGÇÖs better to use a particular module or set of modules in a given situation. Proper feedback so that itGÇÖs easier to understand what is happening (e.g. an HAV has activated shield hardeners) and how to counter it. Turrets will now have finite ammunition. Vehicle vs. vehicle combat generally boils down to two vehicles parked opposite one another firing until someone pops. This is not fun. Finite ammunition allows us to make turrets more powerful while preventing them from being a constant threat; spam a target and eventually you will run out of ammo. Expand Once we're confident weGÇÖve gotten the base balance right weGÇÖll start to add back in things weGÇÖve removed as well as introduce new elements to the mix. Pilot dropsuits, improved roles, increased infantry and vehicle interplay, and new turret types for a start. Click the image for full-size version. Click the image for full-size version. Active vs. Passive modules WeGÇÖre rebuilding everything with the idea that active modules will allow a vehicle to survive a single encounter, while passive modules increase its long-term surviveability across multiple encounters. Active modules will provide very significant bonuses, but once used their long recharge times leave a lone vehicle vulnerable to any follow-up attacks. Passive modules on the other hand provide permanent bonuses that are comparatively small. The breakdown is as follows: Active Large, temporary bonuses High PG/CPU costs Single encounter survivability Passive Small, persistent bonuses Comparatively low PG/CPU costs Multiple encounter surviveability Module Types These are the modules that weGÇÖll be focusing on in our first-pass rebalance: Armor/Shield Hardeners (A): Massive, temporary reduction to damage received. Used to survive short, high-DPS situations. Long cool down times discourage overuse. Armor Plates / Shield Extenders (P): Small permanent HP increase Increases long-term sustainability at the expense of the base hullGÇÖs inherent strength (shield recharge time in the case of shields and speed in the case of armor) Shield Boosters (A): Instant, emergency use high HP restoration in the heat of battle. Ultra-long cool down times. Last-ditch injection of HP and a kick-start to shield recharge. Armor Repairers (P): Speed up HP recovery outside of combat Used to make running repairs between battles (too slow to be of real use in the heat of battle) Damage Amplifiers (A): Massive, temporary increase to damage dealt. Used to GÇ£punch above your weight classGÇ¥ or to restore something like parity to the playing field when hardeners are used. Ammo Cache (P): Increases the amount of on-board ammunition available to turrets. Used to increase ammo capacity. Useful when not near a supply depot. Armor vs. Shields<... CCP Logibro // EVE Universe Community Team // Distributor of Nanites // Patron Saint of Logistics @CCP_Logibro

steadyhand amarr Amarr S.A.D 1452	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:11:00 - [2] - Quote oO yeh thats quite a rework I take it your leaving AV guns alone as part of this process
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 1830	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:14:00 - [3] - Quote Reserved.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2609	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:15:00 - [4] - Quote As a practical matter, will unused modules/ships/whatever be deactivated while something like this goes live, then turned back on? Or... just refunded straight out? People might have MLT BPOs for some Module that doesn't exist in this framework for example, would those sit around while this balancing happens and potentially be never added back...? Also, do you have projected stats for the other races, even if the ships don't exist yet? Like... slot layouts or what-not for Amarr/Minmatar versions of things?
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 91	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:16:00 - [5] - Quote I must be dreaming, ccp actually posted the FULL extent of the changes they made AND IN ADVANCE.
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 560	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:20:00 - [6] - Quote When you guys said you were doing a fully comprehensive change to vehicles you weren't kidding. I'm not a vehicle user myself but I know enough to be intrigued about how these end up in the final release. This is going to be an interesting thread to follow....
Halador Osiris Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 669	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:22:00 - [7] - Quote Will small arms fire prevent shields from recharging?
Absolute Idiom II No Free Pass 789	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:22:00 - [8] - Quote It'd be nice to hear the current opinions of those doing the internal balance testing, and where you feel adjustments might need to be made. After all, it is that testing which has delayed the release of the vehicle rebalance. Atm it's pretty hard to judge the affect of all these changes with numbers alone, so it'd be nice to have to some opinion added to the mix of hands-on experience; especially for the different play -styles you see being used.
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 1397	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:23:00 - [9] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: We are looking forward to your feedback! Cool stuff! On replenishing ammo supply: Recall / Re-Deploy? Swing by a Supply Depot? On missing items: Figure A appears to be missing a number of current vehicles... Is the grid comprehensive?
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2609	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:25:00 - [10] - Quote Shotty GoBang wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: We are looking forward to your feedback! Cool stuff! On replenishing ammo supply: Recall / Re-Deploy? Swing by a Supply Depot? On missing items: Figure A appears to be missing a number of current vehicles. Is the grid comprehensive? While I'm curious about their projected stats for other racial vehicles, the lack of other current vehicles goes back to the original idea of stripping things down to "base" models of things and adding specialized vehicles back later.

The Attorney General ZionTCD 1131	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:25:00 - [11] - Quote I can appreciate that you need to reduce noise in your data, but how is further limiting tankers supposed to help in that regard? 2H/3L on an armor tank? How is that going to produce any sort of variety in fits? It would seem very likely that there will be yet another stage of one fit to rule them all. I do appreciate the irony though. People complained about not having enough PG to fill their slots, so you took the slots away. Clever.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6634	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:25:00 - [12] - Quote Where are logi and assault dropships? I take it we will be getting an asset refund for this if youre removing our vehicles for beta testing?
Kain Spero TeamPlayers EoN. 2054	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:28:00 - [13] - Quote I'm really happy to see CCP take the positive steps in allowing the community to provide feedback regarding these changes before they are actually implemented. I hope this will become the norm in the future and not the exception.
The Attorney General ZionTCD 1133	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:29:00 - [14] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Where are logi and assault dropships? I take it we will be getting an asset refund for this if youre removing our vehicles for beta testing? They went away with the enforcers and marauders.
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 1397	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:29:00 - [15] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: ... the lack of other current vehicles goes back to the original idea of stripping things down to "base" models of things and adding specialized vehicles back later. I can't imagine that sitting well with LLAV operators and high-end Dropship pilots. Perhaps we're looking at a partial grid. Edit: Perhaps not ... https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1356133#post1356133
ChromeBreaker SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1333	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:29:00 - [16] - Quote On a first pass... skills that dont have an inherant bonus are back And no given values on the armour Modules... 180mm plates gone?
Rogatien Merc Red Star. EoN. 1322	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:30:00 - [17] - Quote I quite like the fact that balance between std / enh / com is based on cooldown timers rather than % damage increase. Gives lower SP tankers a chance, but they have to be more cautious in the long-term. Note: The stats on the turrets are all the same per meta level except that higher meta levels have higher fitting requirements; I assume this is because you're still figuring out how to balance? Question: No assault dropships? Question 2: I'll ask since all the vehicle dudes will - will skills that have their entire purpose changed (Veh Electronics for instance) have the SP refunded upon implimentation?
Theme For A-Jackal Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 11	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:30:00 - [18] - Quote Will you be refunding SP invested in vehicles to go along with the changes? There are a number of new skills that you have introduced.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6634	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:31:00 - [19] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Where are logi and assault dropships? I take it we will be getting an asset refund for this if youre removing our vehicles for beta testing? They went away with the enforcers and marauders. Nice to know all the ships I just invested in wont even exist.
Rogatien Merc Red Star. EoN. 1322	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:32:00 - [20] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Where are logi and assault dropships? I take it we will be getting an asset refund for this if youre removing our vehicles for beta testing? I see the removal of assault dropships - if that is the intent - as the giant glaring negative coming out of this...


CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 2472	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:32:00 - [21] - Quote The Logistics and Assault Dropships are going to be taken out temporarily, but they should be returning in the future. As was said in the first post, we want to go back to basics and get the core interactions working first. Then we can look at branching back out once we have a solid foundation. CCP Logibro // EVE Universe Community Team // Distributor of Nanites // Patron Saint of Logistics @CCP_Logibro

Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL 234	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:33:00 - [22] - Quote Will our current SP in the vehicle skill trees be refunded now that the trees are being changed?
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6634	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:35:00 - [23] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: The Logistics and Assault Dropships are going to be taken out temporarily, but they should be returning in the future. As was said in the first post, we want to go back to basics and get the core interactions working first. Then we can look at branching back out once we have a solid foundation. So what happens to the 30 logi ships sitting in my hanger and all the SP ive dumped into them? What if I have no interest in flying normal dropships for X months while we wait for them to come back?
Forlorn Destrier Bullet Cluster 1873	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:37:00 - [24] - Quote Since the Saga 2 will be removed, what happens to the ones we already own? Will I be refunded for the ones I own?
Hexen Trickster Industrial removal service 83	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:39:00 - [25] - Quote Long time tanker here this sounds great. rail tanks have been so overpowerd due to there range and damage but hopfully ammo will make them less dominant My small suggestion, add 1,2,3,4 for vehicle active mods. Granted this might make keyboards a tad more 'op' but i just hate the current system of middle mouse and then look at what you want most of the time causing my camera to follow which in a HAV is a pain in the wallet... i once went to use my repairer while escaping.. turret lifted up and hit a railing. Collision damage. Dead.
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1105	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:40:00 - [26] - Quote The stats on a whole are looking good . But I personally would change the slot load outs by increasing the high slots on gunlogis to 4 and tge low slots on the maddy to 4 as well.
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 560	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:40:00 - [27] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: I'm really happy to see CCP take the positive steps in allowing the community to provide feedback regarding these changes before they are actually implemented. I hope this will become the norm in the future and not the exception. I know. With the 1.5 patch notes coming out over a week before it hits and this weeks brfore it hits....... Who are you people and what have you done to the real CCP?
Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1031	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:45:00 - [28] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: oO yeh thats quite a rework I take it your leaving AV guns alone as part of this process I hope so. Before they touch AV we have to see how well the new vehicles will be. And I mean we have to see it in action.
UncleGuspacho Neo Terra Imperial Army Neo Terra Empire 13	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:47:00 - [29] - Quote are there going to be ADV and PROTO tanks not just STD and Enforcer tanks
grunt party Carbon 7 CRONOS. 63	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:48:00 - [30] - Quote yh i hope i get a complete vehicle respec because shields are gunna die



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