Long time tanker here this sounds great. rail tanks have been so overpowerd due to there range and damage but hopfully ammo will make them less dominant

My small suggestion, add 1,2,3,4 for vehicle active mods. Granted this might make keyboards a tad more 'op' but i just hate the current system of middle mouse and then look at what you want most of the time causing my camera to follow which in a HAV is a pain in the wallet... i once went to use my repairer while escaping.. turret lifted up and hit a railing. Collision damage. Dead.

I can appreciate that you need to reduce noise in your data, but how is further limiting tankers supposed to help in that regard?

2H/3L on an armor tank? How is that going to produce any sort of variety in fits? It would seem very likely that there will be yet another stage of one fit to rule them all.

I do appreciate the irony though. People complained about not having enough PG to fill their slots, so you took the slots away. Clever.

Armor resists look to be staying at about what they are now. Skill based resist and two carapace hardeners works out about the same as the new 60% modules, although the current have better active times and shorter cooldowns.

So all in all an armor nerf, which is just what most of us feared.

Without an AV nerf, tankers should all just quit.

While we are on it, assuming these plans get readied up for 1.7, how long after that until we get the higher tiers of tanks?

Reducing us to basic vehicles is tolerable for a month, but not three.

180 plates were replaced with Complex 120's (roughly the same armor values)

Better Armor Hardeners means you can survive longer on the front-line. Resistances are always going to be better than raw HP when the **** hits the fan.

Powergrid Upgrade Unit and CPU Upgrade Unit. They're there still.

The Diagnostic Unit module granted a % increase to shields, shield recharge rate, and PG. Very good module for shield vehicles, not in the list anymore.

I like switching the CPU mod to a high slot, because no one wanted to use one anyway.

Looking at the shield booster numbers they make no sense.

286 CPU, and a massive 1048 to be able to not even rep back one Ishukone Assault Forge round? And you can do that once every thirty seconds with max skills?

Sounds like fun being that tanker.

Move up, get hit, start to retreat, and pray that no one comes after you.

So instead of whining about it, how about you propose something different?

I have, because I honestly don't care. CCP has a good concept layed out and they have three months to work on it. If you don't like what they have, say something in this thread since they're asking for feedback. "Improve tanks" is largely opinionated and circumstantial with everyone wanting Tanks to be God Mode like they were when Marauders were around and "improve AV" is largely opinionated and circumstantial with everyone wanting Tanks to be paper thin.

So, do what you want because any time someone throws out an opinion in one of these threads you just spew acid all over the place. Peace, I'm out.

You get a Railgun that does 1,800+ damage from 10x the range. A Large Missile Launcher that does more than that.

I'm sorry but basing an argument on three legitimate AV options: Swarms which do more damage than they honestly should, AV grenades which require you to be danger close and Forges which are actually pretty well balanced. Versus Tanks which are good for everything except AV.

I dunno what to tell you because it's not going to be what you want to hear. Obviously, CCP doesn't either.

People (Tankers mostly) are forgetting that the vehicles and WEAPONS are slated to rebalanced in the same patch.

Basically, we are going to have a whole new game when this 'patch' drops.

Rendering, while playing into the overall balance, isn't related to vehicle balancing. It's a symptom of a disease, not the disease itself.

Just as well, Breach Forge Gun requires the user to be completely immobile and Forge Guns in their entirety require the user to move slower when charging. A small window but a window none-the-less. Even then they have a maximum range of <350m (I'm not sure of this number specifically, I just know they can't go beyond that). Fix the rendering and that's no longer a problem for Rail-guns with 600 meter (redline) range.

I was rather surprised at the railgun ammo count, too. In BF4 (first Battlefield title to have vehicle ammo, I think) tanks have about 25 shells. Of course, in BF4, you'd expect your tank to die within a few minutes, too.

Couple of things to keep in mind guys:

AV weapons should also be getting work done to them to bring them in line with the new numbers. Those will be posted at a later date. For now, try to focus on vehicle vs vehicle interactions.

Small arms shouldn't be able to disrupt shield recharging. I don't have the exact number for the threshold off the top of my head, but it should be enough to prevent someone from pinging you with an assault rifle to stop the recharge.

On another note, CCP Wolfman is out of his cave for a short time, so it might be a little while before he pops his head back into the thread. Keep the feedback rolling in though to make sure he's got a nice list of things to talk about when he gets back (and don't worry, there will be enough time for talking when he gets back)

As far as partial respecs/refunds for vehicle related stuff goes, they are on the table. No details yet, but that's because we're still discussing how we want to do it. We will let you know when we've decided how it will go down.

You can't give full respecs for this to pilots, everyone else would QQ MOAR RESPCTS endlessly and I honestly would have to kill myself.
I should think that what makes the most sense (may or may not logistically be easier for CCP, who knows) is the following in terms of respecs all around:

1) This vehicle stuff goes down: Your entire vehicle tree gets reset and SP refunded so you start clean with what is basically a whole new tree.

2) The full line of racial weapons comes out: Entire weapon tree gets reset/refunded, same deal.

3) The line of racial suits comes out: Hopefully you see where this is going....

That way everyone gets a partial and legitimately needed respec when their particular stuff gets reworked, we don't have to deal with respecs every other month, and maybe, just maybe, there will be less QQ.

As for the AV weapons, as a proto swarm user I'm OK with just the SP refund down to whatever level of swarms are left, I can wait for the weapon reset to go all crazy with my SP. Losing just the one weapon doesn't justify changing the whoe thing. Obviously ISK and/or AUR cost of anything taken away needs to be refunded as well, that's just common sense.

I would also argue that given all the rebalancing to weapons and suits, a full respec is becoming more warranted.

As far as the removed vehicle types go, we are looking to return them. However, we need to battle test the base variants first so we have a solid platform to work from.

As far as modules go, we will also looking at returning some (but not necessarily all) of them. Again, we need to cut down and get the basics battle tested before we can throw back in all sorts of good stuff.

As good as number crunching and internal playtesting may be, it's not as good as you guys fighting each other with these vehicles live.

recall/resummon. or.... supply depot, obviously.

Maybe this will teach tank jerks to QUIT BLOWING THEM UP!!

i had lost all hopes for this game, but after seeing what they are doing, hell
i will give them another chance

PS: if you see a derpship killing you on 1.6, it might be me

Hes right

Rail could be king again, i expect it to be king with range anyways but if it hits you with no hardners on you get popped before you know whats happening

If it comes to this rail tanks will be in all matches trying to pick off ppl, 2k damage from 600m how can you close the gap in a blaster or missile? by time you have done your hardners could be off and you die in2-3 shots not accounting AV chasing your ass around like they do now

Add in 400m locking swarms and PG you can get hit easily before you even get to your objective

If tanks are weaker with no hardners on they will die before they reach the objective either by rail or AV spammed from the redline or towers

Take PC matches, maybe tanks could make a difference but i doubt it and if swarms/FG still have the long range capabilitys then tanks will be worse off

Even if you survive and see the AV or rail tank and activate your stuff to survive you are then ****** afterwards

The sizes of the maps are massive, AV currently follows you and can cover the maps we have now, how would a tank like this survive going across 5km map?

5km by 5km district

Eventually all that red area they will want us to use at some point but that will take time

But even now blaster/missile cannot shoot more than 300m, rail is 600m with new stats and AV yet to see, but assume swarms and FG still have 300m range minimum, it means hitting the redline rail tank is a ***** to get to since you have to get through the AV nade spamming infantry if it still exists

love how the best possible tank railgun turret doesn't even do half what a breach proto forge gun does? will that be fixed?

If you run out of dropship shots then you are useless

Are they being removed indefinitially

We need some AV numbers. How can we say what we think about the changes if i can one shot them with a militia forge?

I think av needs a small nerf but only nerf the damage to the vehicals so the forge does regular damage to turrents and infantary. Also if they are making a proto or logk and assult hav make the proto or assult hav have 2 large turrents for maximen damage. ( this would only work for blaster prehaps make a cannon turrent and the missle turrent insted of 2 guns that It alredy has it could have a vehical lock on with heatseeking missles or gps system. Also railguns could have a lager blast radius (5.00m ) and faster fire rate )

Ps .. I have not read every post here if you have qustions just ask and I will answer asap also I know it has nothing to do with the quote im pretty shur

So... SP Respec for vehicle skills?

Don't expect an increase blast radius for explosive missiles, @Harpyia.

They used to have larger radius in Beta. It decimated infantry and there were oceans of QQ on these forums. The blast radius got the Nerf down to what you have today.

If full auto hammers infantry, expect another Nerf.

Infantry have always cried about anything that required teamwork or skill. Back then, infantry only cared about their gun game and there was very little AV. Of course tanks will decimate them if there's only a couple of militia AV on the field.

But now the times have changed. Many players have skilled into proto AV. Missiles don't need to be nerfed anymore. Infantry lost the right to their crutch some time ago.

We need large blast radii for our missiles. If we want to bombard at mid range, 1.5m is simply too little. It also makes no sense for a kinetic projectile with no explosives to have a larger "blast" radius.

Full auto won't decimate infantry. A full clip will be use for one, two, or three infantry at most. Then a 7.5s reload (I intend on maxing the reload skill). I do expect infantry to cry how they can't evade 12 missiles fired at them in full auto.

The most important thing is to make tanks cheaper.

The biggest frustration with tanking is when you lose 1, you know itll take a ton of games in militia fits to pay for it.
If tanks are cheaper in the future and more sustainable, instead of an isk pit, tanks will be a lot of fun.

OMG the Large Missile launcher sounds REALLY fun with fully auto, i just hope its buffed enough to be able to use it. As it is now, with 1.5 m blast itll take all 12 shots to kill 1 guy and then you have to reload for 10 secs (lol)

Okay, so on a longer look I've decided the turrets are all a joke. Really, the only turret that out ranges swarms is a large rail turret!? I assume these changes will affect the AI turrets as well. Clearly you don't intend to bring back Enforcer tanks. The range of the small blasters should probably be increased as well. It would only make sense to use them on LAVs with the current range, once again ensuring the SP cost as well as ISK is inordinately high for tankers and DS pilots. Speaking of which, cost is still not being addresed that I've seen.

I want my sp back. There are to many changes. Seems like asking for changes has took away from us tankers or atleast on paper it looks that way. Less modules and limited ammo Bye bye rail and missle turret unless your a really good shot and more power to you if you are. Av can currently shred a tank. Especially considering most people who stuck with dust have the option for proto gear. Guess we'll see how all this works when the shooting starts. Biggest problem with this game vechile wise is to many want a god tank and to many want a one shot one kill av weapon. Thats enough complaining from me ccp will be getting plenty of tickets soon im sure.

Sooooo....Im pretty deep into vehicles (hav 5)..I skimmed over the 33 pages in this thread and didnt notice if vehicle drivers will get refunded the SP..I may not want anything to do with vehicles after all this.. atleast give us the choice..

Heavy Attack Vehicle Command is a skill tankers skill, to be able to operate STD tanks.
There are two versions of it, one for Gallente and one for Caldari.
Another possibility is, that he means he skilled many vehicle skills to level 5. Tankers do this, to be able to use better modules, increase their efficiency and be able to use better fittings. e.g. less PG need to fit plates
You are welcome.

The reason why no one is mad, is because they are taking out the "Enforcer Tanks", which means we will be getting at least a milSp back. While this isn't a full reimburse, it's enough to go proto in a new weapon or dropsuit. Besides, I for one, have been so psyched about the player market that I don't even care what happens to tanks. I believe I speak for every tanker when I say, that we are over it. CCP made us wait too long, so much to the point that we have taken matters into our own hands. Over the last few months I have gained enough Sp to go full Logi and skilled into Forge guns as well...I haven't looked back ever since. The only time I use tanks now is to get my 1kWp, from destroying installations at the beginning of a match. In conclusion, I would like to make a final statement as to why tanks have, and always will be a forgotten art. Before CCP created OP AV, people like Kain Spero made tanks obsolete. Such observations became clear during the IMP/STB war. As STB was, and always has been, known for their tankers, Kain Spero proved them invaluable. All he, or anyone had to do, was get to a roof top. 1 man, 1 Forge. He controlled the battlefield. After that war it became clear to everyone that tanks were useless, regardless of what CCP did to buff tanks or nerf AV. The issue is and always has been the "high ground" as stated by "Ted Nugget" and others. No one expects CCP to change all of their maps and so the dream has been long gone, and our wounds have had some time to heal. Thank You for reading.
Sincerely, Big Burns
Chromosome-Tank Veteran
Pupil of : Ted Nugget, Ragewardog, The Amazing Pot Head, SmokethatKush, The Attorney General, and Earl James.

Will vehicle weapon ranges be nerfed to prevent redline spamming? Especially since swarms will no longer be able to reach them.