At E3 we announced our new PVP mode, Close Quarters Combat. CQC is coming to Elite: Dangerous for PC, Mac and Xbox One later this year, for free.

CQC goes beyond our original vision for Elite: Dangerous. It's a new PVP mode accessed from the main menu, launching you into instant combat on custom maps in twelve-player Free For All Deathmatch, Team Deathmatch and Capture The Flag (in the Xbox One Game Preview beta).

Musturd sent me a dozen or so texts last night, pointing out a few things he was screwing around with (e.g. "those jumpy things" and flaylock pistols, for example) and few things he'd like to see changed (tap "jump" for small leap or hold "jump" for large; revert to Chromosome unit speeds). Also, he apparently had to have a SKIN for his MinScout. Lol.

Was definitely Musturd, and he definitely wasn't out looking to stomp on anyone. Did seem to be having fun though. Also, it's worth pointing out that his KDR has always been around 2.0. He beasts when he chooses to beast, but he's not your typical KDR-obsessed, always-in-a-super-squad, always-in-FoTM-gear stomper beast. Never has been.

I don't see how you can give them role-related buffs that their role-based improvements don't have?

Get the most kills in a 24hr period with your sidearm of choice, and pick the name for the officer version. The trick was, the kills had to be made with militia grade sidearm. Getting a single kill with MLT NKs is no small feat. Musturd and Kaeru (2nd place) literally raked in thousands.

Regarding the Minmatar Scout

Those who think it's in a good place, please list the typical fitting(s) you use in a battle. I'm almost always in an ADV suit, trying to get as many kincats on it as I can. If I did run proto, the 3rd low would be taken up by a dampener. Sometimes, the 2nd low on the ADV is taken up by a dampener depending on the EWAR on the field. It's rare that I bother with an ADV min scout with two damps. That's just silly when you can go Gal.

Regarding market sales: these are not an indicator of good performance. Riddle me this:
- I go ten games in a gal scout and die 50 times
- I go ten games in a min scout and die 70 times

If I replace all the suits I lost, what would suit sales show?

I've always thought basing suit performance on sales makes no sense - it only shows popularity. Aren't you making the assumption that people only use the most KDR efficient suit they can? I tend to stick with Minja when I'm having a bad match with it until I really can't enjoy myself any more or the stubbornness runs out. Then I switch to Gal and generally have better results.

I suspect the differences of opinion here related to fitting cost are likely related to how we fit our suits. If I didn't care so much about speed, I would probably think fitting it was fine as well. But I don't necessarily think that Min scouts need a fitting buff...at this point I just agree with the UP sentiment. Maybe I should try out a Minja with no kincats. But I said that about cloak after watching Kaeru, and I only used that for a few matches. I should probably try some more.

ATEOTD, Rattati will look at other metrics too, and then hopefully will ask for feedback before pushing ahead (or not) with any changes.


PS. Hmmm just had a thought. What if the ADV Min scout had a 2/3 hi/lo slot layout instead of its current 3/2 ? That might make a huge difference. If of course you agree it needs a change ;-)

We still need to come up with a way to make Light Frames better.

Pretty sure we'll have to stick to the speed/hp tradeoff curve ...
I'd proposed more speed, less hp, lower innate profile.
I believe Duncan's leaning toward less speed, more hp.

Does anyone have any clever, out-of-the-box ideas?

Maybe go the Black Eagle route?
Maybe 1EQ, 0 primary, 3x sidearms?
Maybe keep it simple and just add a low slot?


PS: / insomnia ... back to bed :-)

I know who that is, just have yet to play with or against em.

Same goes for you. I played with or against most active peeps in here, except you two.

> tries to keep it in
> can't let it out
> can't keep it in
> explodes


THIS IS NOT A QUESTION!

I don't even know why people putting question marks in the wrong place bugs me so much but I see it so often and I just want to take away the typing privileges of anyone who does it until they learn.

Way to get some people to jump into light basic suits.

2 side arms
Take away the grenade slot
Bonus towards vehicles
XD
Do it about the time they do the reskinned racial vehicles.. if that is still going to be a thing. Havnt kept up really.

I am not proposing any changes to light frames. I don't see the point. This all came from Rattati suggesting an HP buff to lights to ease the NPE (towards a scout role I'm assuming). Why wouldn't the aim be to do that for all basic frames? Honestly....once you get into level 1 of a racial suit, with the ISK costs the weird way they are, you have absolutely *zero* reason to ever don a basic frame again. And fundamentally, even if we did want to make light frames useful throughout a merc's career, I don't see how you can give them role-related buffs that their role-based improvements don't have? We might as well do away with the basic frames instead.

Do the other basic frames (medium / heavy) have a reason to run those once you're L1 in any racial skill? I think if I understood what the point was, I might have something a little more constructive ;-)

Regarding the Minmatar Scout

Those who think it's in a good place, please list the typical fitting(s) you use in a battle. I'm almost always in an ADV suit, trying to get as many kincats on it as I can. If I did run proto, the 3rd low would be taken up by a dampener. Sometimes, the 2nd low on the ADV is taken up by a dampener depending on the EWAR on the field. It's rare that I bother with an ADV min scout with two damps. That's just silly when you can go Gal.

Regarding market sales: these are not an indicator of good performance. Riddle me this:
- I go ten games in a gal scout and die 50 times
- I go ten games in a min scout and die 70 times

If I replace all the suits I lost, what would suit sales show?

I've always thought basing suit performance on sales makes no sense - it only shows popularity. Aren't you making the assumption that people only use the most KDR efficient suit they can? I tend to stick with Minja when I'm having a bad match with it until I really can't enjoy myself any more or the stubbornness runs out. Then I switch to Gal and generally have better results.

I suspect the differences of opinion here related to fitting cost are likely related to how we fit our suits. If I didn't care so much about speed, I would probably think fitting it was fine as well. But I don't necessarily think that Min scouts need a fitting buff...at this point I just agree with the UP sentiment. Maybe I should try out a Minja with no kincats. But I said that about cloak after watching Kaeru, and I only used that for a few matches. I should probably try some more.

ATEOTD, Rattati will look at other metrics too, and then hopefully will ask for feedback before pushing ahead (or not) with any changes.


PS. Hmmm just had a thought. What if the ADV Min scout had a 2/3 hi/lo slot layout instead of its current 3/2 ? That might make a huge difference. If of course you agree it needs a change ;-)

Way to get some people to jump into light basic suits.

2 side arms
Take away the grenade slot
Bonus towards vehicles
XD
Do it about the time they do the reskinned racial vehicles.. if that is still going to be a thing. Havnt kept up really.

You probably haven't played against me.. on this account anyway.. Inmortal Slayer may have found you once or twice tho.

It could be a design goal of Rattati's to make Basic Frames less bad. He's adding a 2nd EQ slot to Basic Med Frames to make them less bad. Why not make Basic Light Frames less bad as well? Who are we to tell him, no you can't do that?

Edit: IIRC, Basic Light Frames were at the very bottom of the kill/spawn efficiency pile.

It could be a design goal of Rattati's to make Basic Frames less bad. He's adding a 2nd EQ slot to Basic Med Frames to make them less bad. Why not make Basic Light Frames less bad as well? Who are we to tell him, no you can't do that?

Edit: IIRC, Basic Light Frames were at the very bottom of the kill/spawn efficiency pile.

I also get better kill/spawn results when switching out of MinScout into GalScout. Further, I'd pretty much always choose a single damp'd CalScout or GalScout in PC over a double damp'd MinScout.

But this could easily change ...

* Changes to movement are imminent
* Changes to EWAR seem very likely

Movement speeds are being reconfigured; this will affect NK takedown success rates. Further, it seems probable that EWAR improvements are on Rattati's list. He's yet to rule on the (low-risk / high-reward) nature of 21dB GalLogi scans. If he rules that they are too "always on" and should be more "hide-and-seek", MinScouts might not need to double damp to beat competitive permascan (as permascan would be made less perma).

TL; DR: I'm aware that the MinScout isn't doing well, and it certainly isn't a goal of mine to keep the MinScout down. I'm of the opinion that it is not doing well due to external factors, so I'm suggesting that we wait-and-see what comes of those factors rather than run the risk compounding improvements. Is my thinking off-the-mark?

It could be. Is it? Didn't know about the EQ change to meds. What's the thinking behind that? What are heavies getting? I'm not saying don't do it, just that doing it a certain way doesn't make sense. If we actually knew what we were trying to encourage, maybe it wouldn't seem like a waste of dev time.

My opinion of course.

As for kill/spawn stats - something has to be bottom of that pile no? Doesn't it make sense that it's the squishiest possible suit?

No not at all, I agree, one change at a time, I'm not saying it needs to change now. I'm addressing those who think it's actually ok *right now*. Not in the future where it might be ok with external changes, but right now. I'm curious as to how others are more successful with it, or think it can be fitted just fine...right now. it could be as simple as I'm ****, but I want to find out either way.

Whilst we're on the subject of external factors affecting balance, I've several times mentioned the tiericide favouring suits with more slots. Any thoughts on that? Because I'm pretty sure that will be a nerf to scouts, and possibly moreso commandos. Again, not saying it shouldn't happen, just that I worry nobody has thought about that particular aspect.

Edit: IIRC, Basic Light Frames were at the very bottom of the kill/spawn efficiency pile.

That's probably because all the more experienced players are running the specialised frames, and all the new players are running the basic frames. This is what makes their kill/spawn efficiency so low, not the suits themselves.

Agreed. Though distance from the median matters, and both Basic Heavy and Basic MedFrame efficiency were not as far removed.

That's because most new players don't know how to play like a Scout, and instead play it like an Assault. New players survive better in Basic Heavy and Medium Frames because they have more EHP, and the role isn't as complicated for them as a Scout's role.

It could also be that Basic Lights are substantially worse than Scouts, while Basic Heavies are only slightly worse than Sentinels and Basic Meds are only slightly worse than Assaults. You and I know what we're doing, but I imagine we'd both do substantially worse in Light Frames. Me probably moreso than you. Because I actually use the lolCloak, and you ... well ... you dual tank and run with a stompsquad like a no-nuts scrub.

@Adipem

I think you're being too hasty in switching out to a Gal/Cal Scout. I noticed in your fits that you don't have a Minja with just one Damp. This is sufficient 90% of the time, an I really think you should try it before you switch out to a Gal/Cal Scout.

I also think that running 3 Kincats gimps yourself.

Guess you forgot about all the posts I wrote about going solo.

Guess you forgot about the Ambush matches a couple of days ago where we kept running into each other whilst I was solo.

Guess you forgot about how you backed out of the Ambush match that I was in whilst I was solo.

(Jokes)

And I thank you. Really, you're saying that I'd perform better because my fits are more efficient. And you know I use the Cloak as well.