but... we're not getting another respec. Ever.

Which puts a dampener on your whole plan, huh?

Except for the people still waiting for a respec where every snippet of patch news probably gives them an advantage.

If the MD gets fixed, it'll still be a POS. I have prof 5 and with damage mods, the Freedom deals less damage than the EXO-5's base damage in Chromosome. Add that to the EHP buff all suits got, the trajectory change, and the nanohives nerf and you got a big pile of "why bother." Anyone who says otherwise is delusional, trolling, or never used the Freedom or Boundless in CBs back in chrome to realize how gimped the weapon was to begin with.

Player skill made the MD look OP. They can't nerf skill, but they sure as hell nerfed the weapon so nobody would want to use it.

If the MD gets fixed, it'll still be a POS. I have prof 5 and with damage mods, the Freedom deals less damage than the EXO-5's base damage in Chromosome. Add that to the EHP buff all suits got, the trajectory change, and the nanohives nerf and you got a big pile of "why bother." Anyone who says otherwise is delusional, trolling, or never used the Freedom or Boundless in CBs back in chrome to realize how gimped the weapon was to begin with.

Player skill made the MD look OP. They can't nerf skill, but they sure as hell nerfed the weapon so nobody would want to use it.

So player skill is aiming at someones feet?

The MD was the only weapon with bullet travel back in Chromosone, meaning you had to predict where your enemy was going to be and lead the target, and also aim it higher because of the bullet drop. So yes, MD does require skill, it was one of the few weapons that required skill, and still is.

The MD was the only weapon with bullet travel back in Chromosone, meaning you had to predict where your enemy was going to be and lead the target, and also aim it higher because of the bullet drop. So yes, MD does require skill, it was one of the few weapons that required skill, and still is.

So player skill is aiming at someones feet?

Pretty sure they don't plan any more respecs at this time. New stuff comes out, start grinding.

Only people who deserve a respec now are heavies, as they don't have all of their racial suit options.

Scouts get overlooked again . 2 choices isn't much better that 1. Give both Scouts and Heavies the opportunity to respec their dropsuit skills once all the variants are available.

No respecs just for new content. Respecs should only be for people who had no choices and had to spec the only available variant.

Scouts get overlooked again . 2 choices isn't much better that 1. Give both Scouts and Heavies the opportunity to respec their dropsuit skills once all the variants are available.

No respecs just for new content. Respecs should only be for people who had no choices and had to spec the only available variant.

I don't see what the big deal is, if CCP does 4 respecs a year, so what?

It will only lead to less butt-hurt players and it will reduce the amounts leaving from suddenly having their suit, vehicle or gun suddenly become next to useless... This wouldn't be such a big issue if CCP was competent to adjust stats instead of bringing down a sledge hammer every time.

So I guess I'm saying really; Why not? What reasons can you possibly have for this to affect the game in a negative way?

Having no respecs in an FPS that has such depth with no form of tutorials or way to test new playstyles is a horrible idea.

It will only serve to drive people away, not keep them interested.

Having no respecs in an FPS that has such depth with no form of tutorials or way to test new playstyles is a horrible idea.

It will only serve to drive people away, not keep them interested.

Having no respecs in an FPS that has such depth with no form of tutorials or way to test new playstyles is a horrible idea.

It will only serve to drive people away, not keep them interested.

i vote for: NO RESPEC ever

i vote for: NO RESPEC ever

Even if you have AR operation/sharpshooter/proficiency 5 and you log in the next day to find all your fits are invalid because your Gallente logi, along with all logis get restricted to sidearms and no forewarning from the devs?

Everybody is now on same level now thet the skills work correctly. As a result no more respects. Getting your skills right is an important part of the game and rewards players who take a risk or gamble. In dust u need to learn to live with your choices

The MD was the only weapon with bullet travel back in Chromosone, meaning you had to predict where your enemy was going to be and lead the target, and also aim it higher because of the bullet drop. So yes, MD does require skill, it was one of the few weapons that required skill, and still is.

No more respecs,if you have put your sp to wrong place stick with that,in uprising i put my sp to wrong places put dident ask respec i just stick my mistake

In my opinion a weapon takes more skill if you have to actually hit your target who is strafing while you're also strafing, not just hit their general vicinity, I will will you credit that a mass driver takes more skill to use than a the flaylock pistol which does virtually the same splash damage as direct damage which is complete BS.

The MD was the only weapon with bullet travel back in Chromosone, meaning you had to predict where your enemy was going to be and lead the target, and also aim it higher because of the bullet drop. So yes, MD does require skill, it was one of the few weapons that required skill, and still is.

all noob tubes have travel time in any game, they are still NOOBtubes...

Any gun with approximation is skill-less

Says the guy that QQed about the TAC AR nerf and Fused Locus Grenades while using a CaLogi suit as an assault +1

I dunno how it actually works, but could it be a lot easier to simply give a global respec with the new patch?

As opposed to doing one merc at a time?

Many are still waiting and I don't really see a problem with respeccing those that haven't asked for it, it only takes minutes to buy into the same skills.

---

I personally mean that when changes are made to the game, such as new suits, weapons, vehicles and large nerfs/buffs, a respec is in order.

I was clever enough to check the MD's stats before speccing into them at release, if they get fixed I'd rather like to spec into them again. I really don't wanna grind 3 months just for that....

Chromosome?

You mean Uprising...

I found the MD much harder to use than the AR (I'm told the AR takes skill). I couldn't kill anything with the MD, but with an AR I can hit the target's head with ease. When a MD user kills you, it's OP, and when an AR user kills you, it's skill? I don't think so.

The MD was a feared weapon in Chromosome as it should be, but not anymore. As long as you MD users don't kill any AR users, CCP won't nerf it to death.

To be perfectly honest, I'm a little baffled at what's happened with the Mass Driver. The reason for the splash and blast range nerf was that in playtests we found the MD to be so effective that at one point almost half the people in the office were using it in battles. Clearly, that's not been the case with Uprising and after getting the engineers to go elbow deep into the code it appears there may be a few reasons beyond dry numbers that are contributing to the MDs underwhelming performance.

One, there appears to be a de-sync between client and server so that (more often than it should) the server and client think the projectile exploded in different places. They're not far off, but enough so that shots you *think* are spot on are off the mark enough to do only minor splash damage. And two, I'm told splash occlusion is getting blocked by a single player character more than it should, contributing to the "randomness" of the damage dealt and the sometimes smudgy feeling of the weapon.

I'm hesitant to rebalance the weapon until we get these issues looked at (which is happening right now).

Wow, I thought we had moved on from this "more respecs" topic. I suggest starting a "DUST is doomed" or "I am leaving" much more current QQ subjects.

Not all of us are as convinced of CCPs infinite wisdom, I guess

Even if you have AR operation/sharpshooter/proficiency 5 and you log in the next day to find all your fits are invalid because your Gallente logi, along with all logis get restricted to sidearms and no forewarning from the devs?

Well, this is not something that feedback(QQ) will change. It is a design choice. Here comes the snarky bit. If you want a different game, feel free to start your own game company.

i don't run logi. i run the raven suit. Ar on lvl 3. scr on 5 with prof 4 which i use only in good squads and non pub matches. (using the auto variant of the scr, b/c the single shot is too op and it feels like cheating)

usualy i run raven with exile ar, and some other bpo's. if it gets nerfed, which i doupt, so be it.

I am agianst Respecs because i think you have to live with the consequences. If you screw up because you used a obviously broken tool, its your fault.
If you screw up because you did not read, or did not understand the tooltip of a skill, its your fault.

Choose wisely and live with the consequences.

Eve pilots dont get to respec their skills every now and then. if a ship gets nerfed, like it happend to the drake recently, they have to live with it.

Well, this is not something that feedback(QQ) will change. It is a design choice. Here comes the snarky bit. If you want a different game, feel free to start your own game company.

I always keep thinking you run Gallente logi for some reason, my fault. But anyway, you're missing my point. If you invest your SP into something you should be rewarded for what it brings. But the cutoff is that we have bugged skills, skills that don't work as described in the text and things that are changing overnight without any indication or forewarning like the series of ninja nerfs vehicles are going through. I'm with you on you should life with your choices, but if those choices are misinformed or baited and switched by CCP's influence breaking the 4th wall of New Eden's rules, all bets should be off if it's so drastic that you would have never made that choice to begin with since the outcome was altered.
It's like buying an apple but it gets turned into an orange when you bite into it and the vender you bought it from tells you to deal with it.

see i agree with you to some point, BUT let me tell you a story.

In Chromosome i loved the laser rifle. Then came uprising. I didn't jump into lasers just from the start because lasers were kewl in the last build. I looked at the stats first. i invested 1 lvl, which won't brake your legs, into it and saw the sight range etc. The changes led me to the point where i decided not to spec into lasers anymore.

My point is: Don't jump into stuff just because it was good in the last build.

Second.

If the AR or the SCR get nerfed, or the new guns (Caldari, MinmaTard) prove to be superior, then its bad luck i guess. i hold about 1.5 mil sp on the side for such events. Why you ask? because thats what you do if you know that stuff may change.
And if those 1.5 mil won't be enough well then its bad luck for me and i start to grind.

Now you allready know that stuff may change over time. Harden up and prepare for it by saving SP or don't if you feel confident that your stuff won't get nerfed again

Now you allready know that stuff may change over time. Harden up and prepare for it by saving SP or don't if you feel confident that your stuff won't get nerfed again

So just like AFK, the best way to play DUST is to not

Got it.

I'm so pissed off, I don't even want to AFK because it'll give them the satisfaction that there's one more person going towards their projected server turnout.

I've never AFK'd because if I did I would quit this game.

Despite my constant negativity around here, I would really like to see something become of this game. A few of you might remember back towards the beginning, even partway through, I was a CCP fanboy through and through, defending them through thick and thin.

Yea, the times, they are a changin'

Seriously? Here's your problem. People don't have to go start their own game company, all they have to do is something far simpler and pick up any other better designed game out there.

This is what happens when a company looks at player feedback and then spits in their faces, the players aren't going to suck it up because their only alternative is something stupid like forming their own company, they're going to leave and the game is going to die.

So just like AFK, the best way to play DUST is to not

Got it.

Then do that, leave. Its like you are in line to get a free Dali painting and then give "feedback" on how you dont want any melting clocks in it. It is not a bug, it is a design choice. If you dont want it, accept it and leave.

when did I say anything about afking?

Pretty sure they don't plan any more respecs at this time. New stuff comes out, start grinding.

Only people who deserve a respec now are heavies, as they don't have all of their racial suit options.

However, I think they need to reevaluate all of the suit bonuses, considering most of them are garbage and counter intuitive to the play style each race was designed for (armor tankers being the glaring problem).

At which, point once the suit bonuses are fixed and heavy racial variants are released, we should prob get another respec, given how much change there will be to the game (again)

when did I say anything about afking?

I don't afk. Just yesterday i had a very very bad match. 13/16. The other team had good teamwork 2 full squads and most of them ran proto. I refuse to run proto in pubs. went into fights throug the hole game and made sure that at least 2 protos went home with negativ isk. This costed me 30k isk (yes i mean 30k not 300k) but sometimes you have to invest some isk

Cosgar: yes i see but how about just running an AR? The standard issue AR is enough to be successfull most of the time.

But why should Cosgar change his playstyle because CCP decided to nerf a perfectly balanced weapon?

i liked the laser rifle. got nerfed to the ground. do you see me complain?

Addapt and overcome buttercup

I'm sorry that some of us have foresight and would actually like to see the already terrible player retention increase, as opposed to decrease.

Just because something is a design choice doesn't mean it's automatically right

You didn't, but what you're saying is don't use your SP because CCP is unpredictable and doesn't communicate decisions like this with us. So instead of playing the game and using your SP to enhance your experience, you sit on it, in the hopes that CCP gets something right SOONtm.

AKA, AFKing with your SP

do you have a bankaccount or do you just spend all you money on payday? Hoping nothing unforseen will happen?

I'm sorry that some of us have foresight and would actually like to see the already terrible player retention increase, as opposed to decrease.

Just because something is a design choice doesn't mean it's automatically right

You didn't, but what you're saying is don't use your SP because CCP is unpredictable and doesn't communicate decisions like this with us. So instead of playing the game and using your SP to enhance your experience, you sit on it, in the hopes that CCP gets something right SOONtm.

AKA, AFKing with your SP

Do you not pay any of your bills, and just sit on all your money until you think you have enough to make you happy?

i liked the laser rifle. got nerfed to the ground. do you see me complain?

Addapt and overcome buttercup

If the only road to success was to compromise your vision and start doing things in a more traditional way, I would rather it die than turn into a shadow of what it started to be. It will succeed or it will fail, more important imo is seeing those that have faith in the vision and not catering to people who are not ready or willing to be apart of it.

Laser nerf was in the patch notes, MD nerf wasn't and no info on bugs because they obviously didn't test it. Also, laser still gets kills, play with Jaden once in a while...

I'm sorry that some of us have foresight and would actually like to see the already terrible player retention increase, as opposed to decrease.

Just because something is a design choice doesn't mean it's automatically right

You didn't, but what you're saying is don't use your SP because CCP is unpredictable and doesn't communicate decisions like this with us. So instead of playing the game and using your SP to enhance your experience, you sit on it, in the hopes that CCP gets something right SOONtm.

AKA, AFKing with your SP

i liked the laser rifle. got nerfed to the ground. do you see me complain?

Addapt and overcome buttercup

If the only road to success was to compromise your vision and start doing things in a more traditional way, I would rather it die than turn into a shadow of what it started to be. It will succeed or it will fail, more important imo is seeing those that have faith in the vision and not catering to people who are not ready or willing to be apart of it.

Don't even ******* talk to me about the god damn vision.

I'm sick and tired about hearing about their vision. You know how other companies show you their vision? They give you something to bite into. They release finished games. Sure they might charge you for the pleasure, and even charge you for their expansions, but you know what? You generally are playing a completed game.

Don't even mention the vision until we have some kind of MMO aspects in this game.

Vison. Yea, you're right, CCP <3 LSD me thinks.

CCP is not "other companies"

Here's the problem. The forum whiners and doomsayers actually believe that they run CCP. Dust isn't designed by forumites, and thankfully so. A design choice, is by design, and therefore automatically what CCP wants. It's not your call. You aren't that important. Please leave and stop trying to turn Dust into COD and it's ilk.

Some will leave. Some will stay. Dust will survive. You guys REALLY have an inflated sense of your self worth, and btw, the validity of your input.

ahh you're jaden k. will hit you up to form squads :)

and lasers, if i ever meet them on the battlefield, get killed quickly. just close in and dont stand still. thats all you have to do to win 94.56% of the fight.

(percentage is purely made up)

So they wanted Roadkill Rampage and Pot Shot Safari

Shouldve put that in a Devblog

I've just never once played a lobby shooter where you were only allowed to use one build for months on end unless you paid the company to get you there quicker, or were forced to play in highly gimped fits (low SP) in order to enjoy other aspects of the game.

MMO's cover this by allowing you to do all sorts of things not related to shooting another player in the face as you slowly level up. Lobby shooters don't have this luxury.

Something tells me that we're going to have more than a few "Logi's" crying for a repec in the near future...

No weapon should be nerfed to the ground though. And you shouldnt be OK with that unless you are just a FotM weapon user who loves searching for the next OP. All skills should have use or be removed.

I could easily say, I want to "adapt" that SP in another area I use weapons I like and others that I find fit my playstyle. I really dont think its right that I should have to jump through hoops to use them or abandon them because of some silly axiom this game promotes.

Adapting should be tactics not finding out your weapon now shoots rainbows.

And especially when things get ninja nerfed on a whim. I'm not talking about the TAC AR that got a love tap, but when they bring down Mjolnir on something and never mention it in the patch notes. Contrary to what any heavy will tell you, CCP doesn't hate them, they respected them enough to forewarn them and let them keep the jar when they got neutered.

In a game about living with the consequences of your actions, they're sure breaking the 4th wall and changing those consequences too much that your actions won't matter in the end.

At one point nobody had ever ridden a bicycle. That did not mean A. Nobody wanted to ride one. B. It should not have been attempted.

That will be iterated out.

I was referring to the debate about the design choice of not having respecs, and the debate around not having respecs. You see, bumper cars etc isn't a design choice. It is a manifestation of imbalances, mostly in the matchmaker. That's different than a design choice to make SP decisions meaningful.

That will be iterated out.

I was referring to the debate about the design choice of not having respecs, and the debate around not having respecs. You see, bumper cars etc isn't a design choice. It is a manifestation of imbalances, mostly in the matchmaker. That's different than a design choice to make SP decisions meaningful.

That has to be one of the worst and most random analogies I've ever seen....

All I'm saying is that the only thing to do in this game is shoot people in the face.

Since the SP grind was increased without giving any real content in between, you have to literally spend months and months and months (less, if you open up your wallet) in order to play any other meaningful playstyles. New players have NO way of knowing how these will perform, hell, even vets are often left in the dark and forced to search through third party software to try and plan out builds that may very well be ripped apart with little notice.

There is no meaning behind what you do. You shoot people. It's a lobby shooter. There are virtually NO mmo aspects that give this game anything fresh. The mechanics and graphics are basic and even subpar at times. The game modes are horrifically boring, and we've been playing them for over a year now.

People acting like your build is "a choice that matters" are still caught in the lala land that CCPs admittedly small marketing devision has trapped you in.

You dont understand the analogy because your mind is closed to the concept. You stating you have never played a fps like this as some kind of point about how CCP should just start doing things like a mainstream FPS backs the analogy. You have never seen it, its different ( remember know, my only stated opinion in this thread is anti constant respecs) and you are not ready or willing to try a new approach. Its not a bug, its not a glitch.

You dont understand the analogy because your mind is closed to the concept. You stating you have never played a fps like this as some kind of point about how CCP should just start doing things like a mainstream FPS backs the analogy. You have never seen it, its different ( remember know, my only stated opinion in this thread is anti constant respecs) and you are not ready or willing to try a new approach. Its not a bug, its not a glitch.

Ding! Ding! Ding! You just said the secret word!

When CCP said that matchmaking wasn't a priority, I knew it was going to come and bite them in the ass. Matchmaking isn't just an issue for newer players being stomped out by vets, it's an issue about balancing game mechanics.

Look at the Freedom MD last build for example. I used to crush people with that thing in pub matches because I had a prototype weapon with prof 5, going against people running militia and standard suits. In CBs, I had to quad stack CDMs just to have a fighting chance against other suits. That's just one weapon, imagine this with everything in the game. No, don't imagine it, it's a reality. Not having matchmaking ruined balance from the beginning.

I've just never once played a lobby shooter where you were only allowed to use one build for months on end unless you paid the company to get you there quicker, or were forced to play in highly gimped fits (low SP) in order to enjoy other aspects of the game.

MMO's cover this by allowing you to do all sorts of things not related to shooting another player in the face as you slowly level up. Lobby shooters don't have this luxury.

I am glad dust 514 isn't one of them but planetside 2 is.

Facepalm

Point taken but my whole philosophy of the no respec (which I agree with) is that if you want things to be meaningful and you want a player to chart a course then give them the necessary tools. I shouldnt have to wait, then come on forums to find out that skilling up in certain things are trash and weapons that should act a certain way dont.

Take the MD, I loved it because I am not the most accurate and I could at least aid my team in controlling an area and if lucky I could get to an elevated spot and just damage the opponent. Now players dont even blink at you. Also profile dampening and precision and range amplification. Sounds decent in the description but after playing and listening to other vets I found out its a total waste to use them at this point in time.

How long is a person expected to wait for these things to be iterated out, especially when Devs arent really saying what is working as expected, it has to be pulled out of them by constant posting on subjects. If you are just a normal player you will just say this is sh!t and be done with it. And for the EVE-its that say "has your stuff" and go back to (insert better FPS product) that only ensures the game stays will a small player base which only suits them, not developer or new people who would love to enjoy the EVE vision.

no more respecs.

Jenza - Are you saying they're not going to complete the respecs they already promised? The ones that were in queue for?

And to respond to the OP.

A global respec could mess things up, because if someone has already invested into what they want and then a global respec comes, and somehow they mess it up, they're going to demand another one.

Best solution is to have a MAG like respec option, once you reach a certain amount of WP, you get the option to respec, and if you do, the WP needed to get another respec increases.

So you're actively pushing for detailed tutorials, full weapon and suit information, and ways to test suits and playstyles extensively before actually investing in them?

You know, even car dealerships let you test drive the car, and they don't make you drive a terrible beaten up car in order to judge if you like the new one or not.

This might be the EVE universe, but it's not EVE; it's an FPS. In EVE you have a ton of stuff to do. You can be a trader, you can be an industrialist, you can explore the galaxy, you can ruin peoples day, you can protect miners, you can be a miner, you can troll around low / null alone or in packs, you can constantly have something to work towards, you can enjoy stunning visuals, you can scam and provide contracts, you can go ratting, you can fight for the empires in meaningful ways, etc etc.

You know what you do in DUST?

Shoot people.

The community here would rather see people leave Dust then get a respec and be a potential threat with new skills.

Wow, so you test drive candy bars, and routers, and coffee cups, and lawn mowers? Your "even car dealers" is a little disingenuous.

Now, I agree that all of this should be in game, but Dust, like Eve, rewards those who use their brain. Using your brain means asking "what can I find out" before spending money or SP, whereas stupid means asking "why didn't you tell me"

I don't exactly call buying a candy bar, router, coffee cup, or even a lawn mower to be much of an investment

Putting months and months of your time into a single build in order to remain competitive; that's an investment, like buying a car is an investment.

I used my brain, I went for ARs and Heavies so that way I can be repped by my squad, have access to lolmilitia forge guns, and actually take a hit (also in anticipation of Commando's, which already look horrible....2 highs and 1 low at proto...HAHAHAHAHA)

Fact is you can't expect to retain a healthy number of FPS players if you don't tell them anything about the skill system or progression and then go LOL should have stuck your head on google for a month and figured it out yourself. Oh, and it's your fault that CCP nerfed the crap out of that suit you thought you liked.

Too bad bro, adapt or die

I really am stupid though. If I was smart, I would have sat on my SP from my respec for the next 3 months, maybe by then we'd have some form of stability in this game and my decisions might actually be worth a damn.

Playing a game is not an investment. It's a pastime. Also, a car is not an investment, it's a purchase. It does cost a lot of money though, but that doesn't make it an investment. You should have diversified, as I said in my earlier post. Just like in real life. Picking the "best" isn't necessarily using your brain.

Also, I did agree that this stuff should be in game. But, using your brain, means working with what you've got. The future is always uncertain, so you should hedge your bets.

Every day I try to like this game lately I just end up hating it that much more.

Don't tell me to diversify, I did that for almost 8 months; noobs and people who can't decide what they want to play diversify. This game doesn't reward you for diversifying unless you're waaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead in SP, and even then.

So perhaps investment was too strong of a word, but all in all, the point remains; you dump your SP in the hopes that your choices don't get ripped apart / were well educated, or you pretend like SP doesn't exist and further push the fact that this is a lobby shooter with little to no variation, despite what would appear like plenty of variation in suits and equipment.

It's been over a year, and you know what 90% of players still put in their high slots?

Complex damage mods or shield mods

I need to just stop this discussion, because every day I try to like this game lately I just end up hating it that much more.

I don't really know what to tell you. I agree that there should be more info in game, but you're still stuck on "should" rather than "is". Dust will always be changing. This is why I diversify.

If it's all logis, I'm officially done with this game and getting a refund through Sony like everyone else that left did. If a stackable %35 shield efficiency bonus on one suit doesn't scream "Nerf me! Leave the others alone!" I don't know what does...

PS: My suit's racial bonus is only OP in 2 game modes...

no more respecs.

I am glad dust 514 isn't one of them but planetside 2 is.

Don't tell me to diversify, I did that for almost 8 months; noobs and people who can't decide what they want to play diversify. This game doesn't reward you for diversifying unless you're waaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead in SP, and even then.

So perhaps investment was too strong of a word, but all in all, the point remains; you dump your SP in the hopes that your choices don't get ripped apart / were well educated, or you pretend like SP doesn't exist and further push the fact that this is a lobby shooter with little to no variation, despite what would appear like plenty of variation in suits and equipment.

It's been over a year, and you know what 90% of players still put in their high slots?

Complex damage mods or shield mods

I need to just stop this discussion, because every day I try to like this game lately I just end up hating it that much more.

Have CCP hired you to **** talk PS2 in every thread to try make Dust look better? 'Cause really, thats all you seem to be doing.

Pay2Win or not, atleast Planetside 2 is a full game.

Playing a game is not an investment. It's a pastime. Also, a car is not an investment, it's a purchase. It does cost a lot of money though, but that doesn't make it an investment. You should have diversified, as I said in my earlier post. Just like in real life. Picking the "best" isn't necessarily using your brain.

Also, I did agree that this stuff should be in game. But, using your brain, means working with what you've got. The future is always uncertain, so you should hedge your bets.

It's not how much you spend on the car but how and why a person uses an automobile for that makes it an investment. Ranchers invest in tough trucks, traveling employees invest in comfort and miles per gallon. Wealthy people invest in high class automobiles to announce their high status while blue collar people may invest in muscle cars to display their masculinity. Gamers invest time in games for future enjoyment. If the game isn't fun, we won't invest time or money into it. The complaints of experienced players and unknown complaints of new players will help them decide to invest in other games that will be more fun and much less like work.

The die hard Dust514 fanbois will be very lonely 2014.

I think many of them want it to be their personal little play area.

If the trolls and crybabies left, I do think we would enjoy it more. I have said before, I would rather it not succeed than be changed because of a bunch of whiners.

@Jin - But the game is free so you will never control that

also if CCP is actually looking to grow their playerbase they shouldnt be just appealing to EVE-ites who want to play around in the shooter portion of the universe.

And I am far from an FPS specialist but the responses from many seem happy to wait till kingdom come for this utopia and tell any dissenting voices where to go while others (read not trolls and whingers) spend many hours putting forth great suggestions.

?

Isn't what, a lobby shooter?

Actually, the only legitimate investment on that list is the Truck for the rancher. Now, a collectible car can be an investment, but not in the way you describe. An investment is an investment in an asset, or it can be an investment in something that appreciates.

The cost of something, either in time or money, doesn't define whether a transaction is an investment or not.

The error I got on the first day of the alert system came out.
"You cannot join this match, this match is full"

The week after they added a queue:

"You are now 47,850,130,527 in queue for the alert."
WTF?

Cosgar, I have read many of your posts and you arent one I would put in that lot.

At the moment I am not frustrated that much with the game or even what CCP seems to be trying to achieve. I do have a big issue though with the lack of content that I would expect in a base product and also the sentiment that is put forth by many with regards to other games or players that came from other titles.

Many, including myself dont want this to be a clone of other titles but those other games do many things right in certain aspects. Also if you are a proven company you should be able to get things done in a reasonable time.

I also dont have much of an issue with pub stomping but I have issues with weapon balance when you expect a heavy investment into said weapons.

And Adapt or Die is a stupid sentiment in this game because it doesnt really apply, it should be AFK and read the forum and then skill into whats hot and have some fun.

I am really hoping for the best with these new updates but I am going to call CCP on things I dont think are acceptable. You cant flaunt your EVE cred and say you are putting out a top flight shooter and not deliver a quality title. You cant take jabs at other games about we dont make sequels and then deliver a piecemeal product.

I just call it how I see it.

Considering all the problems CCP is having with the Respecs it may be easier for them to Respec everybody rather than individuals or a specific skill tree.

I will not say whether I agree or disagree with Respecs in general but if they can not process everybody who requested one by the time Uprising 1.2 then a full Respec for everyone would be a final line under the matter.

Finally based on evidence it seems far easier for CCP to do a global Respec rather than a targeted one.

@Jin - But the game is free so you will never control that

also if CCP is actually looking to grow their playerbase they shouldnt be just appealing to EVE-ites who want to play around in the shooter portion of the universe.

And I am far from an FPS specialist but the responses from many seem happy to wait till kingdom come for this utopia and tell any dissenting voices where to go while others (read not trolls and whingers) spend many hours putting forth great suggestions.

The problem with that is uprising 1.2 is not the last update. If they allow a respec for it they set a precedent of respecs because of updates. Why isnt this understood?

What don't you understand this isn't just some average update?

The added dropsuits to finish off the heavy and light tiers are going to have a large impact on the game, not to forget the immense effect that having a properly functioning weapon range and damage falloff system will have on all weapon types across the board.

This isn't "Oh, CCP added a new OP weapon I want a full respec so I can switch to it", this is "Oh crap, CCP just entirely changed how all weapons function and the basis for why I've pumped all of my SP into this weapon class is now a pile of trash"

I am not trying to control anything. I am just voicing an opinion (that CCP shares) about how I think constant respecs are bad. It is not the lobby shooter you are looking for.

So then what about mechs? Jets? Speeders? Whatever else they come up with? Your argument is full of holes and having seen your posts before, I am not surprised.

Your argument is like comparing apples to oranges. None of those additions have already been partially introduced forcing people to spec into the existing available models, the new dropsuits and the changes to weapon ranges effect an existing infrastructure people have been forced into.

And why not allow respecs when any of those features are added? How much variety is there going to be in the game when any of those are released and you have a relative handful of players that saved up prior or grinded after the release to access them? How many players that have already sunk their SP into a specific setup are going to toss it all away to start all over again investing in something new?

If you make massive adjustments to the game you need to allow respecs not just to allow people to spread out into the new roles but to allow those that enjoy their existing setup to adapt to the new situations without taking weeks or months to do so.

What happens when CCP gets off their asses and adjusts shield tanking? You're going to have a HUGE segment of the population that was reliant on a mechanic working a certain way who now have to entirely retool how they play. Someone like you would end up saying "adapt or die" and those players are going to die a whole lot until they're able to save up the SP to entirely retool their setups and that could take again weeks and weeks and many players won't have the patience to wait that long just to bring themselves back to a point they were at before the changes.

I imagine it's a swipe at us still being in Beta instead of full release

Using your brain means asking "what can I find out" before spending money or SP, whereas stupid means asking "why didn't you tell me"

The problem with that is uprising 1.2 is not the last update. If they allow a respec for it they set a precedent of respecs because of updates. Why isnt this understood?

I don't think I've seen anyone post a single good reason for having no respecs, across multiple threads.

Every argument against them that I've seen all boil down to, "but that's how EvE does it, so it's the right way."

Now it appears the Devs are going to go the "no respecs" route, and that's their prerogative. It's also yet another entry on their long list of mistakes that is driving casuals and non-EvE fans away.

But hey that list is getting pretty long at this point so I suppose getting too worked up over a single line item on it is a waste of time at this point.

But it's still a mistake.

+1


Thats just it. This community is more or less split in two by the FPS crowd and the EVE crowd.

As a member of the FPS part of the crowd its really hard for us to understand the general HTFU mentality of the EVE crowd. They say they want it to be a no mercy hardcore shooter, yet they still seem to mostly be in favor of every small step this game has taken to reduce actual player skill. We all want this game to be as good as possible and we all want it to succeed. That you guys keep defending obviously broken stuff as "design choices", like the current LAV situation, just goes beyond me. Yes I can adapt or die, no problem... The issue should rather be; "do we really want a shooter to be designd in a way that make murdertaxying a viable option for coming on top of the list every single game? Do we want an FPS game where getting run over by a jeep is the biggest threath on the battlefield? A little more constructive input and a little less "adapt or die" would go a long way.

And about the current topic:

I am very much in favor of choices that have concequences and the whole idea that smart decisions should be benefitial. I for one, was dead set on runnng a scout MD combo since its the most fun I've had in Dust. But I was clever enough to check out the stats before spending skillpoints and chose to get my old AR back instead. I have wastd lvl 2 and 3 on remote explosives, the rest of my skillpoints are "perfectly placed" as far as I'm concerned, I don't need a respec as it is now.

My main gripe is that they keep changing stuff for the wrong reasons and definately in the wrong way. If all of CCPs adjustments where like the resent TAC nerf, I wouldn't have any problem with no more respects. But as long as CCP keeps over nerfing and buffing stuff to the extremes, even things that no one wanted, it gets frustraiting.


We should get respects until the point where most of the basic content is out and as long as its somewhat stable in output. (Semi-balanced at least) When they have brought this game up to a decent level they can say: "The next patch will bring the last ever respec, we won't fiddle with any stats, just add some more maps. This is the last respec you get, chose wisely."

In short: When this game gets factually released, (not technically) then I'm ok with no more respects.

CCP should have never allowed the optional respec. Give a brat an inch, they will cry for a mile.

Bull, the reason is that it creates a longer term thoughtful approach. Your choices matter. Sound familier? why do you need this feature? Are you all honestly that entitled that you wont invest any time?

Bugged weapons, misleading skills that don't do as advertised, stealth nerfs SP sinks... is there any other way I can spell things out for you so you can understand?

Bugged weapons, misleading skills that don't do as advertised, stealth nerfs SP sinks... is there any other way I can spell things out for you so you can understand?

Probably not.

Jin is convinced that his spreadsheet powers are 1337 and anyone who doesn't have Spreadhseet Master skilled to V is just S.O.L.

Also, I LOVE how closed Beta vets know that this game is still in Beta

Full release; my dropship

You know what the funny part is? I actually used a spreadsheet and planned my SP allocation out 100% to where I wanted to be

Scouts are already in a bad spot, I wasn't about to skill into them only to have the game get a performance boost and directly nerf them even further.

Probably not.

Jin is convinced that his spreadsheet powers are 1337 and anyone who doesn't have Spreadhseet Master skilled to V is just S.O.L.

Also, I LOVE how closed Beta vets know that this game is still in Beta

Full release; my dropship

[quote=DUST Fiend][quote=Cosgar][quote=Jin Robot]CCP should have never allowed the optional respec.

EvE Fanbois: CCP can do no wrong. Until it finally effects them enough to throw a riot. Why bother with the whole middle ground constructive dialogue approach? That takes too much time.

Since we're technically not even in full beta yet, it will be a while before I think the game's at a point to support a no-respec system.

Even then, tying people into a single playstyle for such a long period of time is a bad mechanic. It WILL lead to player burnout and poor retention of new players. But again, that's just another drop in the bucket of problems that will lead to new players dropping like flies.

Coming into this game with no respecs available, a new player will have 2 options:

1. Specialize on a role, as the system is designed, and have basically NO variability in playstyle for many months. Hell I've been playing this character for 6 months and my primary build isn't even close to being filled out. (Damn you, logis, and all your equipment!)

2. Spec broadly from the get go. They have variety in playstyle now, to avoid the crushing boredom of playing the same way for months on end. But now they've voluntarily gimped themselves for all those months of grinding.

That's it, those are your options. Be bored, or be gimp (and far less effective in competitive play).

Strict specialization will work in MMO's, but only if they have a variety of activities to be involved in. All the disparate activities you can perform are what keeps you from being locked into a SSDD routine, even if your spec remains mostly static. That's why the games can display the longevity they do, it takes a lot longer for people to become bored with the many different systems.

When you have a static playstyle/spec AND a static activity(singular)? That's poor design; it becomes boring far more quickly. It will have adverse effects on all of us, both the players and CCP.

And that's just one of the reasons I support a system for (occasional) respeccing.

The fact that this game doesn't even qualify as a Beta yet is another. Beta's are for testing core content and functionality, yet we don't even have the basic set of weapons, dropsuits, and vehicles fully implemented yet. And one of the biggest aspects of core functionality, PC and it's attendant systems, was just rolled out. This game is still between Alpha and Beta stages for any correct usage of the words.

Also, CCP can't figure out how to adjust and balance things without breaking them. That's partly a function of the very slow patch cycle. Instead of making relatively small adjustments, then observing the effects and proceeding accordingly, they get overly ambitious and make sweeping changes all at once in hopes of getting it right all at one time, because only God knows when the next patch might roll around with their next opportunity. Also, they haven't figured out that when you're presented with a list of options to balance an item, any one of which will resolve the issue on it's own, "Yes, we'll take them all" isn't the correct response.

Additionally, new players will make mistakes as they happily frolic around in the Academy, oblivious to what's about to happen to them. Personally I haven't made any mistakes in a spec, I'm pretty careful about how I allocate SP. Maybe playing Eve for one month many years ago helped, since I was familiar with the system; I don't know. I'm sure many of you have likewise had no issues. Guess what? No one gives a damn. No cookies are to be distributed on account of your 1337 SP allocating skills. When the newbie realizes the 700k SP he dumped into Plasma Cannons was a complete and utter waste, or that Laser Rifles aren't exactly useful, he's going to be upset, and rightfully so. And quite frankly this game is going to need all the help it can get in retaining players.

But hey, **** it.

Who cares if having a reasonable system for respeccing would have numerous positive benefits? That's not how Eve does it, and that's the only thing that matters!

'Dis **** is hardcore yo. HTFU noobz.

I dont think anything above 32 players is truly feasible for CCP

I dont think 32 players is truly feasible for CCP

Fixed

True. If MAG was able to create 128v128 matches, other games should be able to as well, but I doubt CCP can do it.

Fixed

On a console?

Most games on console are up to 32. There maybe some that are 48 but not sure.

Next Gen consoles will feature 64v64 combat as confirmed by BF4.

Edit - apologies - just looked it up.

Never played MAG, only played Xbox FPS's until Dust.

I can't see the problem with respecs. For the life of me, I can't see it ruining any aspect of the game for now. IT certainly doesn't violate some sense of fairness.


The only way I'd be on board with shutting off respecs is the day CCP rolls out a game free of FPS breaking bugs, at least a basic set of each races suit, vehicles and whatever else is to come, as well as their network issues fixed.

This game will be great. At that point we can take it seriously. But at this point, they need more players trying out all the new stuff they are trickling out, and for us to test it over weeks of skill training hampers the whole game improving process with regards to interfacing with their community. if something new gets introduced, yet it takes the community a few weeks to even test it out.. what is the thinking there?

To say that respecs are out of the question is to say this game is golden and complete. It is so far from either of those qualities it isn't even funny. To add to it, why do they keep the stats of the game items classified even though we all know kit's on their road map. That would in the very least allow players to plan accordingly.

This whole games development has become very bizarre. the information we get is seldom complete, and hell.. have we ever gotten any complete information? ever? is there a project manager over seeing dust? Do the developers even play the game? half the time they act surprised about bugs. meanwhile, playing the game for 5 minutes and certain bugs are all you notice. How is that disconnect happening? For example, getting stuck to geometry. One dev asked what we were getting stuck to. Dude- we are getting stuck to EVERYTHING. How do you not know that? then there's always the lack of attention to any details. man, i couldn't develop a game without obsessing over the details.

like I said, bizarre.

On a console?

Most games on console are up to 32. There maybe some that are 48 but not sure.

Next Gen consoles will feature 64v64 combat as confirmed by BF4.

Edit - apologies - just looked it up.

Never played MAG, only played Xbox FPS's until Dust.

Except you can't plan your choices because they're constantly being fiddled with, nerfed out of relevance, or buffed to the point that they will soon be nerfed out of relevance.

Really the thought of not allowing respecs just feels like people who need to rely on spreadsheets to get the upper hand don't want other players to have the chance to fix uneducated (not really their fault, they shouldn't have to dig through pages and pages of threads and youtube videos to find this stuff out) choices that they've made.

Also, why let people move out of a playstyle they've been playing for months? It's far more entertaining to let them grind for a few more months to get to the point where their new playstyle is even worth fielding in any match that even remotely matters.

If there was actually stuff to do in DUST, then maybe, just maybe, I wouldn't mind this mentality. Unfortunately, it's a lobby shooter, and forcing people to stick to a single playstyle with no hope of changing it other than biting the bullet and grinding for months is absurd.

Testify.

I don't understand the massive boner CCP has for the idea of no respecs, especially in a game with so many choices and career paths, even alternate paths within the same career, like being a rez/rep/repair logi vs. a combat logi.

I'm pretty much a dedicated logi and I do enjoy it (when the frakin injectors are working right), but say one day I get a wild hair up my butt and decide, hey, I think I'd like to be a sniper for a little while? Or maybe I'd like to try out tanks, and see what that's like? This adds infinite replay-ability, and more enjoyment and immersion into the game. And when all that happens, the most important thing happens: I open my wallet.

I'm not necessarily talking about the ability to respec at will, like you can in Borderlands 2. I would be happy with the ability to respect every 3-6 months. Even once a year would be acceptable. Or how about the ability to buy SP back with ISK I've earned, so I can respec partially? The important point is, CCP should pay attention to the fact that I'm still playing BL2 after how long now? 9 months? That's like a bajillion years for a FPS. And I know you can't exactly compare them, but Dust performs nowhere near the level of BL2 at the moment, glitch-wise anyways.

Any career change now would require such a massive SP investment that would be better spent on my chosen career. So at this point, if I get bored of my chosen career, I can either:

1) Grind my butt off for the SP necessary to switch.
2) Go find another game to play.

I'm in my late 30s with a full-time job that requires mandatory overtime. I grind in real life, and I'm sure as *** not going to do it on my free time. When I eventually get bored of Dust (which, inevitably, all players will at some point or another), which of the above two options do you thing I'm gonna choose?

no more respecs.

I'm still waiting to see a logical explanation for no respecs other than "EVE doesn't let you", "your choice matters", "no more respecs" or "cuz CCP says so"

I'm still waiting to see a logical explanation for no respecs other than "EVE doesn't let you", "your choice matters", "no more respecs" or "cuz CCP says so"

I'm on your side about respecs right now because Dust is still incomplete, but I got a serious question for you: Once we have all the racial weapons, suits, and vehicles, tutorials, a test lab mode to preview weapons and gear before you invest SP, and CCP stopped changing everything on a whim, would you be fine with there being no respecs?

I dunno how it actually works, but could it be a lot easier to simply give a global respec with the new patch?

As opposed to doing one merc at a time?

Many are still waiting and I don't really see a problem with respeccing those that haven't asked for it, it only takes minutes to buy into the same skills.

---

I personally mean that when changes are made to the game, such as new suits, weapons, vehicles and large nerfs/buffs, a respec is in order.

I was clever enough to check the MD's stats before speccing into them at release, if they get fixed I'd rather like to spec into them again. I really don't wanna grind 3 months just for that....

I'm still waiting to see a logical explanation for no respecs other than "EVE doesn't let you", "your choice matters", "no more respecs" or "cuz CCP says so"

Why should there be no more respecs? I don't understand your mentality. Bringing flexibility and the options to try out different loadouts in an FPS is as important as allowing grass to grow with sunshine and water.

That may be the case, but the New Eden universe and its three unwavering principles wouldn't allow for respecs.

Adapt or die
Don't use what you can't afford to lose
Accept the permanent consequences of your choices

That may be the case, but the New Eden universe and its three unwavering principles wouldn't allow for respecs.

Adapt or die
Don't use what you can't afford to lose
Accept the permanent consequences of your choices