CCP should have never allowed the optional respec. Give a brat an inch, they will cry for a mile.

Bull, the reason is that it creates a longer term thoughtful approach. Your choices matter. Sound familier? why do you need this feature? Are you all honestly that entitled that you wont invest any time?

Bugged weapons, misleading skills that don't do as advertised, stealth nerfs SP sinks... is there any other way I can spell things out for you so you can understand?

Bugged weapons, misleading skills that don't do as advertised, stealth nerfs SP sinks... is there any other way I can spell things out for you so you can understand?

Probably not.

Jin is convinced that his spreadsheet powers are 1337 and anyone who doesn't have Spreadhseet Master skilled to V is just S.O.L.

Also, I LOVE how closed Beta vets know that this game is still in Beta

Full release; my dropship

You know what the funny part is? I actually used a spreadsheet and planned my SP allocation out 100% to where I wanted to be

Scouts are already in a bad spot, I wasn't about to skill into them only to have the game get a performance boost and directly nerf them even further.

Probably not.

Jin is convinced that his spreadsheet powers are 1337 and anyone who doesn't have Spreadhseet Master skilled to V is just S.O.L.

Also, I LOVE how closed Beta vets know that this game is still in Beta

Full release; my dropship

[quote=DUST Fiend][quote=Cosgar][quote=Jin Robot]CCP should have never allowed the optional respec.

EvE Fanbois: CCP can do no wrong. Until it finally effects them enough to throw a riot. Why bother with the whole middle ground constructive dialogue approach? That takes too much time.

Since we're technically not even in full beta yet, it will be a while before I think the game's at a point to support a no-respec system.

Even then, tying people into a single playstyle for such a long period of time is a bad mechanic. It WILL lead to player burnout and poor retention of new players. But again, that's just another drop in the bucket of problems that will lead to new players dropping like flies.

Coming into this game with no respecs available, a new player will have 2 options:

1. Specialize on a role, as the system is designed, and have basically NO variability in playstyle for many months. Hell I've been playing this character for 6 months and my primary build isn't even close to being filled out. (Damn you, logis, and all your equipment!)

2. Spec broadly from the get go. They have variety in playstyle now, to avoid the crushing boredom of playing the same way for months on end. But now they've voluntarily gimped themselves for all those months of grinding.

That's it, those are your options. Be bored, or be gimp (and far less effective in competitive play).

Strict specialization will work in MMO's, but only if they have a variety of activities to be involved in. All the disparate activities you can perform are what keeps you from being locked into a SSDD routine, even if your spec remains mostly static. That's why the games can display the longevity they do, it takes a lot longer for people to become bored with the many different systems.

When you have a static playstyle/spec AND a static activity(singular)? That's poor design; it becomes boring far more quickly. It will have adverse effects on all of us, both the players and CCP.

And that's just one of the reasons I support a system for (occasional) respeccing.

The fact that this game doesn't even qualify as a Beta yet is another. Beta's are for testing core content and functionality, yet we don't even have the basic set of weapons, dropsuits, and vehicles fully implemented yet. And one of the biggest aspects of core functionality, PC and it's attendant systems, was just rolled out. This game is still between Alpha and Beta stages for any correct usage of the words.

Also, CCP can't figure out how to adjust and balance things without breaking them. That's partly a function of the very slow patch cycle. Instead of making relatively small adjustments, then observing the effects and proceeding accordingly, they get overly ambitious and make sweeping changes all at once in hopes of getting it right all at one time, because only God knows when the next patch might roll around with their next opportunity. Also, they haven't figured out that when you're presented with a list of options to balance an item, any one of which will resolve the issue on it's own, "Yes, we'll take them all" isn't the correct response.

Additionally, new players will make mistakes as they happily frolic around in the Academy, oblivious to what's about to happen to them. Personally I haven't made any mistakes in a spec, I'm pretty careful about how I allocate SP. Maybe playing Eve for one month many years ago helped, since I was familiar with the system; I don't know. I'm sure many of you have likewise had no issues. Guess what? No one gives a damn. No cookies are to be distributed on account of your 1337 SP allocating skills. When the newbie realizes the 700k SP he dumped into Plasma Cannons was a complete and utter waste, or that Laser Rifles aren't exactly useful, he's going to be upset, and rightfully so. And quite frankly this game is going to need all the help it can get in retaining players.

But hey, **** it.

Who cares if having a reasonable system for respeccing would have numerous positive benefits? That's not how Eve does it, and that's the only thing that matters!

'Dis **** is hardcore yo. HTFU noobz.

I dont think anything above 32 players is truly feasible for CCP

I dont think 32 players is truly feasible for CCP

Fixed

True. If MAG was able to create 128v128 matches, other games should be able to as well, but I doubt CCP can do it.

Fixed

On a console?

Most games on console are up to 32. There maybe some that are 48 but not sure.

Next Gen consoles will feature 64v64 combat as confirmed by BF4.

Edit - apologies - just looked it up.

Never played MAG, only played Xbox FPS's until Dust.

I can't see the problem with respecs. For the life of me, I can't see it ruining any aspect of the game for now. IT certainly doesn't violate some sense of fairness.


The only way I'd be on board with shutting off respecs is the day CCP rolls out a game free of FPS breaking bugs, at least a basic set of each races suit, vehicles and whatever else is to come, as well as their network issues fixed.

This game will be great. At that point we can take it seriously. But at this point, they need more players trying out all the new stuff they are trickling out, and for us to test it over weeks of skill training hampers the whole game improving process with regards to interfacing with their community. if something new gets introduced, yet it takes the community a few weeks to even test it out.. what is the thinking there?

To say that respecs are out of the question is to say this game is golden and complete. It is so far from either of those qualities it isn't even funny. To add to it, why do they keep the stats of the game items classified even though we all know kit's on their road map. That would in the very least allow players to plan accordingly.

This whole games development has become very bizarre. the information we get is seldom complete, and hell.. have we ever gotten any complete information? ever? is there a project manager over seeing dust? Do the developers even play the game? half the time they act surprised about bugs. meanwhile, playing the game for 5 minutes and certain bugs are all you notice. How is that disconnect happening? For example, getting stuck to geometry. One dev asked what we were getting stuck to. Dude- we are getting stuck to EVERYTHING. How do you not know that? then there's always the lack of attention to any details. man, i couldn't develop a game without obsessing over the details.

like I said, bizarre.

On a console?

Most games on console are up to 32. There maybe some that are 48 but not sure.

Next Gen consoles will feature 64v64 combat as confirmed by BF4.

Edit - apologies - just looked it up.

Never played MAG, only played Xbox FPS's until Dust.

Except you can't plan your choices because they're constantly being fiddled with, nerfed out of relevance, or buffed to the point that they will soon be nerfed out of relevance.

Really the thought of not allowing respecs just feels like people who need to rely on spreadsheets to get the upper hand don't want other players to have the chance to fix uneducated (not really their fault, they shouldn't have to dig through pages and pages of threads and youtube videos to find this stuff out) choices that they've made.

Also, why let people move out of a playstyle they've been playing for months? It's far more entertaining to let them grind for a few more months to get to the point where their new playstyle is even worth fielding in any match that even remotely matters.

If there was actually stuff to do in DUST, then maybe, just maybe, I wouldn't mind this mentality. Unfortunately, it's a lobby shooter, and forcing people to stick to a single playstyle with no hope of changing it other than biting the bullet and grinding for months is absurd.

Testify.

I don't understand the massive boner CCP has for the idea of no respecs, especially in a game with so many choices and career paths, even alternate paths within the same career, like being a rez/rep/repair logi vs. a combat logi.

I'm pretty much a dedicated logi and I do enjoy it (when the frakin injectors are working right), but say one day I get a wild hair up my butt and decide, hey, I think I'd like to be a sniper for a little while? Or maybe I'd like to try out tanks, and see what that's like? This adds infinite replay-ability, and more enjoyment and immersion into the game. And when all that happens, the most important thing happens: I open my wallet.

I'm not necessarily talking about the ability to respec at will, like you can in Borderlands 2. I would be happy with the ability to respect every 3-6 months. Even once a year would be acceptable. Or how about the ability to buy SP back with ISK I've earned, so I can respec partially? The important point is, CCP should pay attention to the fact that I'm still playing BL2 after how long now? 9 months? That's like a bajillion years for a FPS. And I know you can't exactly compare them, but Dust performs nowhere near the level of BL2 at the moment, glitch-wise anyways.

Any career change now would require such a massive SP investment that would be better spent on my chosen career. So at this point, if I get bored of my chosen career, I can either:

1) Grind my butt off for the SP necessary to switch.
2) Go find another game to play.

I'm in my late 30s with a full-time job that requires mandatory overtime. I grind in real life, and I'm sure as *** not going to do it on my free time. When I eventually get bored of Dust (which, inevitably, all players will at some point or another), which of the above two options do you thing I'm gonna choose?

no more respecs.