Hey all.

One of the ideas things that has been discussed with the CPM is the idea to have placeholder models for all the currently missing racial variants (gal, min, cal heavy, cal & amar light) to have placeholder models with all the intended slot loadouts, skills, skill bonuses and stats untill such a time where the art department is ready to implement them.

We think that currently, a lot of the suits seem to be trying to balance themselves for options that dont yet exist which is kinda flawed. Traditionally CCP doesn't really like the use of placeholders but in this instance we think its fairly important.

Any feedback and thoughts on this would be very valuable.

As long as there is some clear way of telling apart (Just an example) an Amarr Heavy from a Caldari Heavy, so we have an idea of the stats of the enemy we're going up against, and what weapons to use against them.

One thing I keep hearing is "this is unbalanced that is unbalanced" and all I do is shake my head and say "wait till everything is out then it will be balanced". Something like this could work but would kill my immersion in the game. So to stop the cry babies yes. To save my fun/immersion in the game no.

Does this include pilot suits and modules for us vehicle users?

I disagree. The Sentinal has bonuses for a weapon that isnt out yet... you going to do the same with the weapon? Use a FG model? what about the Galente heavy?

Its a cheap fix and if anything... and i know im going to get stick for this... i would say remove the sentinal untill all variants are available! AND there racial weapons.

Scouts are a different matter, they have a solid base to jump from... but i still think its a poor showing.

If balncing is an issue then you start with a solid foundation and build up... you dont just keep bolting things onto something that is rotten...

I think you are misunderstanding what jenza is saying.

They have been told the functionality for the suits are ready, but the suit graphics are not. They can release the suits with a basic variant for now if we would be happy with it. You get the functionality of the suit, they just look very similar, like the caldari logi looks so similar to the caldari assault and so forth.

So then does that include the missing Minmatar & Amarr vehicles then?

Not sure why Chromebreaker is suggesting removing the sentinel, even though I understand it is worse than the basic, with useless bonuses. The best is to have all the variant to be able to test and provide feedback and at one point correct the sentinel and the other all together.

How can you add a suit without its primary use? its like putting the amarr assualt in without scrambler rifles and lasers? or the minmatar scout without any melee weapons lol

you can put them in... but im against it untill theyre ready.

I understand you don't want another useless suit like the sentinel, I don't as well. but I am pretty sure we could use a suit from the same race as the Forge gun(Gallente?) and one for the minmatar HMG, so we get some corresponding bonuses and playstyle stats. Sure thing, if they don't show what they are (at least here on the forum in a spec sheet) we will never know if they look ready to be deployed.

I don't care about the look, but I do about the functionnality of it.

You're just showing in some way the necessity to have the other Heavy suits variants, since the current Amarr suit is the one being useless, without it's Amarr weapon to match.

The 4 racial suits need to be balanced against each other and you cant do that untill the other weapons are out... dont want another cal logi. Also people will just spec into the suits with the guns and then moan when the others come out.

All or nothing.

The 4 racial suits need to be balanced against each other and you cant do that untill the other weapons are out... dont want another cal logi. Also people will just spec into the suits with the guns and then moan when the others come out.

All or nothing.

Hey all.

One of the ideas things that has been discussed with the CPM is the idea to have placeholder models for all the currently missing racial variants (gal, min, cal heavy, cal & amar light) to have placeholder models with all the intended slot loadouts, skills, skill bonuses and stats untill such a time where the art department is ready to implement them.

We think that currently, a lot of the suits seem to be trying to balance themselves for options that dont yet exist which is kinda flawed. Traditionally CCP doesn't really like the use of placeholders but in this instance we think its fairly important.

Any feedback and thoughts on this would be very valuable.

Hey all.

One of the ideas things that has been discussed with the CPM is the idea to have placeholder models for all the currently missing racial variants (gal, min, cal heavy, cal & amar light) to have placeholder models with all the intended slot loadouts, skills, skill bonuses and stats untill such a time where the art department is ready to implement them.

We think that currently, a lot of the suits seem to be trying to balance themselves for options that dont yet exist which is kinda flawed. Traditionally CCP doesn't really like the use of placeholders but in this instance we think its fairly important.

Any feedback and thoughts on this would be very valuable.

Nice idea but no, it's a cheap fix and that's that.

its indeed a cheap fix but in our opinion it works.

And the useless sentinal bonuses?

Hey all.

One of the ideas things that has been discussed with the CPM is the idea to have placeholder models for all the currently missing racial variants (gal, min, cal heavy, cal & amar light) to have placeholder models with all the intended slot loadouts, skills, skill bonuses and stats untill such a time where the art department is ready to implement them.

We think that currently, a lot of the suits seem to be trying to balance themselves for options that dont yet exist which is kinda flawed. Traditionally CCP doesn't really like the use of placeholders but in this instance we think its fairly important.

Any feedback and thoughts on this would be very valuable.

they need to be changed but thats another issue entirely.

Do your place holders include the other racial variants of the sentinel?

How can you balance them? maybe that "heat build up damage reduction bonus" thing... is actually useful?

Agree with Captain-Placeholder. The current races have fairly distinct colour schemes, so something as simple as recoloured versions of the current suits until suitable artwork is finished could work.

I say do it, it is pretty hard to balance when they aren't even in the game.

Jenza, you think they might be able to make this in time for us to spec into it when we will receive the optional respec we are waiting for right now? End of this month or beginning of june let say? you probably can't tell, but I ask anyway.

DOOO ITTTTT

But if you convince them to, you have to convince them to do a partial respec.

Say you went Amarr sentinal, but you want to be Gallente. You should have all those points refunded from racial dropsuits, so you can either put them back, or chose your new suit.

You can petition CCP for a full respec as long as you do it by May 31st

You're missing my point, I already have my respec coming :p

I'm saying, let's say you've put all your points into Amarr heavies, but all you want is Gallente heavies. Gallente heavy is released, you're now stuck with Amarr.

If they refund the SP spent on racial dropsuits, you can then go back and put the points in Amarr if you wanted to, or you can switch to Gallente.

Well hopefully they add the placeholder dropsuits before the respecs. That would be the most prudent thing to do.

Well hopefully they add the placeholder dropsuits before the respecs. That would be the most prudent thing to do.

If this happens, when the new artwork is finished what will happen to the placeholder suits? Would they be refunded, simply convert to the new artwork, or remain in your inventory as useable alongside the new artwork suits while being removed from the market?

simple answer, the placeholder is ONLY the graphics, the graphics get replaced with the intended ones that are still in development and voila!

as for the people asking if it can be in before the repec, thats HIGHLY unlikely.

At this stage getting placeholder suits is still unlikely at this point untill we get overwhelming support from the community

Hey all.

One of the ideas things that has been discussed with the CPM is the idea to have placeholder models for all the currently missing racial variants (gal, min, cal heavy, cal & amar light) to have placeholder models with all the intended slot loadouts, skills, skill bonuses and stats untill such a time where the art department is ready to implement them.

We think that currently, a lot of the suits seem to be trying to balance themselves for options that dont yet exist which is kinda flawed. Traditionally CCP doesn't really like the use of placeholders but in this instance we think its fairly important.

Any feedback and thoughts on this would be very valuable.

You might not get that overwhelming support, since majority play medium frames with AR.
You will get a lot of heavy/scout players support, but most AR users might just ignore this.
I am sure we would be at page 55 if we were taking about some assault and logi suits.

Well, thanks for the info about a release time, i will play my militia for a while, until something happen

You might not get that overwhelming support, since majority play medium frames with AR.
You will get a lot of heavy/scout players support, but most AR users might just ignore this.
I am sure we would be at page 55 if we were taking about some assault and logi suits.

Well, thanks for the info about a release time, i will play my militia for a while, until something happen

the main idea for the heavy for example is to just have the current amarr heavy as a placeholder model for the other ones then have the colour tinted red, green or grey for the racial variants.

As i already said when we discussed this, i'm totally in favor of doing this.

The current suits and specialized suits need some work to get back to a point where clear markers make them stick to the area of expertise they should cover. It can be done by balancing bonuses, shifting layouts and other statistics but it's kinda meaningless if we dont have the full package of suits to do this.

I can very much understand how painfull it would be for graphics and design teams to see new suits first come out without their unique skin but we cannot wait X months for this.

I hear many heavies being bored by not having new suits to get their hands on. And i think it may disgust those players at some point and drive them away.

Could it be the same with some "missing" racial weapon variants (combat rifle, rail rifle etc)? then, we'll have pretty much the "full" game with a huge variety on the maps and greater balance

Just a quick idea for this topic, maybe just change the title to something to get a little more attention. I don't know, maybe [CPM proposal] in front or something like petition.

Just a quick idea for this topic, maybe just change the title to something to get a little more attention. I don't know, maybe [CPM proposal] in front or something like petition.

Someone asked me to add a blue tag to this thread, but this is not something that I work on. So while I will post here, no blue tag! :P

But warn people that this skill respect is THE LAST so if they want to spec into the racial variants will come soon they will just have to stay in MLT and STD gear

Someone asked me to add a blue tag to this thread, but this is not something that I work on. So while I will post here, no blue tag! :P

As a heavy I am horribly pigeon-holed with only being able to choose the slow moving armor tanker. Forge gunning is not for slugs.

I am all for this idea, great to see the CPM contributing like this.

what don't you people understand about teh art department being the hold up, if we get a placeholder, it has to be in the form of an art concept already in the game...aka it will look like one of hte heavy suits that is already playable.

Everyone asking to change skin colors and do do this/that is missing the point that a place holder would LOOK the same and they would FUNCTION differently base on Race and meta level...

Hey all.

One of the ideas things that has been discussed with the CPM is the idea to have placeholder models for all the currently missing racial variants (gal, min, cal heavy, cal & amar light) to have placeholder models with all the intended slot loadouts, skills, skill bonuses and stats untill such a time where the art department is ready to implement them.

We think that currently, a lot of the suits seem to be trying to balance themselves for options that dont yet exist which is kinda flawed. Traditionally CCP doesn't really like the use of placeholders but in this instance we think its fairly important.

Any feedback and thoughts on this would be very valuable.

no, thats a specialisation that hasnt been added yet, im talking about the missing basics, sentinals and scouts for now

Jenza, your lack of proper spelling and capitalization really bothers me. I think if you want to be taken seriously you should reroll your toon with a properly-capitalized name. Also those pants you wore at Fanfest were a huge ******* fail.

Someone asked me to add a blue tag to this thread, but this is not something that I work on. So while I will post here, no blue tag! :P

So then does that include the missing Minmatar & Amarr vehicles then?

`CCP you guys are the PRO'S ! Why haven't you thought about this way back. I mean this is basic functionality and balance design! Why should you wait for an overwhelming support from the community when it is the obvious thing to do . I mean really ....

The drop suit variants with their main weapons is the core of the game , get that right now ! Additional weapons and stuff falls outside this core and doesn't need this much attention.

You have to be able to see the full spectrum of the core and test it ! so Im 1000 % for this. JUST DO IT rather than SOON tm

Are the vehicles done for the Amarr and Minmatar?

I wouldn't mind if it were Mr. Game&Watch sitting on my "Loadout" screen as long as I could see intended stats.

I love numbers, I love maths, and the sooner I get my hands on such things the sooner I can start sharing and conversing with the community ideas on what role they should fill and where a player interested in them might look to skill-spec.

Placeholders YES! Even if only to confirm Light > Pilot and Heavy > Commando suits. Even if only to confirm Minmatar and Caldari racial heavis and Amarr racial light.

I wouldn't mind if it were Mr. Game&Watch sitting on my "Loadout" screen as long as I could see intended stats.

I love numbers, I love maths, and the sooner I get my hands on such things the sooner I can start sharing and conversing with the community ideas on what role they should fill and where a player interested in them might look to skill-spec.

Placeholders YES! Even if only to confirm Light > Pilot and Heavy > Commando suits. Even if only to confirm Minmatar and Caldari racial heavis and Amarr racial light.

The pilot IS a light and the commando IS a heavy, though the purpose of this thread is to just get the current framework filled rather than talking about other specialisations.

no, thats a specialisation that hasnt been added yet, im talking about the missing basics, sentinals and scouts for now

Sentinels and scouts aren't basics, they are specializations. I know this may sound nit-picking but it's important to distinguish between light frame and scout as well as heavy frame and sentinel. You don't want to get into this mindset where you are balancing the light frame to be a scout then when you get to the actual scout suit nothing really changes beside bonuses, same with heavy to sentinel.

the main idea for the heavy for example is to just have the current amarr heavy as a placeholder model for the other ones then have the colour tinted red, green or grey for the racial variants.

By basic I don't think she meant "basic suit" i think she meant "basic content" as in content that should have been added with the "full release" Uprising, as opposed to things like the Commando and Pilot Suits or MTACS or Jets which are considered expansions.

8 pages of "YES PLEASE"
how long until something might happen jenza?

8 pages of "YES PLEASE"
how long until something might happen jenza?

Hey all.

One of the ideas things that has been discussed with the CPM is the idea to have placeholder models for all the currently missing racial variants (gal, min, cal heavy, cal & amar light) to have placeholder models with all the intended slot loadouts, skills, skill bonuses and stats untill such a time where the art department is ready to implement them.

We think that currently, a lot of the suits seem to be trying to balance themselves for options that dont yet exist which is kinda flawed. Traditionally CCP doesn't really like the use of placeholders but in this instance we think its fairly important.

Any feedback and thoughts on this would be very valuable.

the main idea for the heavy for example is to just have the current amarr heavy as a placeholder model for the other ones then have the colour tinted red, green or grey for the racial variants.

i agree with this as well. i am really curious to see how the amar scout works

This is what I am wanting as well. I just feel not only will they be coolly in stars but they will also be the best art wise as well.

na repainting ammar heavy just looks corney. Wait for the new suits to come out latter.

If you want heavy use ammar.

Hey all.

One of the ideas things that has been discussed with the CPM is the idea to have placeholder models for all the currently missing racial variants (gal, min, cal heavy, cal & amar light) to have placeholder models with all the intended slot loadouts, skills, skill bonuses and stats untill such a time where the art department is ready to implement them.

We think that currently, a lot of the suits seem to be trying to balance themselves for options that dont yet exist which is kinda flawed. Traditionally CCP doesn't really like the use of placeholders but in this instance we think its fairly important.

Any feedback and thoughts on this would be very valuable.

+1

This process needs also fix the stupid assault and logistics bonuses, they should not be role-wise, but race-wise, ist just lame that an galente assault gets shield bonuses for an example.

the main idea for the heavy for example is to just have the current amarr heavy as a placeholder model for the other ones then have the colour tinted red, green or grey for the racial variants.

no, thats a specialisation that hasnt been added yet, im talking about the missing basics, sentinals and scouts for now

And yet no dev will grace us with his presence 11 pages in....

we gotta keep this thread alive as long as possible until the royal blue tag has finally kicked in

Agreed I don't care about lore (ok i do) though all the races are apparently going to have their own takes on other races tech, so give us placeholders that are stylised to the race they are a placeholder for

Unfortunately CCP is really into lore and will do things as they see fit towards it. Our only problem is we really need a point towards benefitting them. I am not talking about doomsaying either we need to make a ligitamate reason for them to do it. The game needs variety but the way it is now supports the game we have. So like I said until we get some comment from a Dev we need to build good points towards CCP not just us or the game


Also if you have made a good point remake it and lay it on good for them. Give them something to bite onto good.

thats true. but just the fact that im waiting for an answer is making my mind boggle since i dont know if i should spend my respec or wait for it

Unfortunately CCP is really into lore and will do things as they see fit towards it. Our only problem is we really need a point towards benefitting them. I am not talking about doomsaying either we need to make a ligitamate reason for them to do it. The game needs variety but the way it is now supports the game we have. So like I said until we get some comment from a Dev we need to build good points towards CCP not just us or the game


Also if you have made a good point remake it and lay it on good for them. Give them something to bite onto good.

Hey all.

One of the ideas things that has been discussed with the CPM is the idea to have placeholder models for all the currently missing racial variants (gal, min, cal heavy, cal & amar light) to have placeholder models with all the intended slot loadouts, skills, skill bonuses and stats untill such a time where the art department is ready to implement them.

We think that currently, a lot of the suits seem to be trying to balance themselves for options that dont yet exist which is kinda flawed. Traditionally CCP doesn't really like the use of placeholders but in this instance we think its fairly important.

Any feedback and thoughts on this would be very valuable.

Does this mean that the current suits like the Caldari Logistics, Gallente Logistics, and Minmatar assault are not placeholders?

Unfortunately CCP is really into lore and will do things as they see fit towards it.

How much support does this need before it happens? It seems pretty well supported to me.

let me put it this way; something like this would need the OK from someone even higher than ccp nullarbor

according to jenza



in other words a lot