DUST Search - Placeholder models for missing racial varients.

ChromeBreaker wrote:

martinofski wrote:

ChromeBreaker wrote:

martinofski wrote:

Not sure why Chromebreaker is suggesting removing the sentinel, even though I understand it is worse than the basic, with useless bonuses. The best is to have all the variant to be able to test and provide feedback and at one point correct the sentinel and the other all together.

How can you add a suit without its primary use? its like putting the amarr assualt in without scrambler rifles and lasers? or the minmatar scout without any melee weapons lol

you can put them in... but im against it untill theyre ready. Straight

I understand you don't want another useless suit like the sentinel, I don't as well. but I am pretty sure we could use a suit from the same race as the Forge gun(Gallente?) and one for the minmatar HMG, so we get some corresponding bonuses and playstyle stats. Sure thing, if they don't show what they are (at least here on the forum in a spec sheet) we will never know if they look ready to be deployed.

I don't care about the look, but I do about the functionnality of it.

You're just showing in some way the necessity to have the other Heavy suits variants, since the current Amarr suit is the one being useless, without it's Amarr weapon to match.

The 4 racial suits need to be balanced against each other and you cant do that untill the other weapons are out... dont want another cal logi. Also people will just spec into the suits with the guns and then moan when the others come out.

All or nothing.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Medic 1879 The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 377	Posted - 2013.05.23 12:15:00 - [31] - Quote Good idea.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1106	Posted - 2013.05.23 12:15:00 - [32] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: So then does that include the missing Minmatar & Amarr vehicles then?
Sontie Ill Omens EoN. 390	Posted - 2013.05.23 12:19:00 - [33] - Quote send emails to the directors and producers. Bug the **** out of everyone. MAKE IT HAPPEN!
Garth Mandra The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 12	Posted - 2013.05.23 12:21:00 - [34] - Quote I think this is a decent idea. What I would want from CCP though is a guarantee that even with the placeholders they don't push back the development of the real thing. It's often tempting to let mediocre fixes be once you've done them rather than fixing things properly. And make the other races obnoxiously colours so we can tell them apart like the yellow logi suits. This might also help motivate CCP to get the real thing out sooner.
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 811	Posted - 2013.05.23 12:22:00 - [35] - Quote I'm adding to the already overwhelming support for getting placeholders put out.
Byozuma Kegawa The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 52	Posted - 2013.05.23 12:23:00 - [36] - Quote I fully support this! And the vehicles, too, maybe... actually, first they need to fix the passenger graphic, then maybe.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp Orion Empire 92	Posted - 2013.05.23 12:26:00 - [37] - Quote I'm behind this 100% I don't mind waiting for the other models of racial variants, but the functionality needs to be added to the game as soon as humanly possible. I'm a heavy, and as such I do not want to spec Amarr at all, so I am very limited in my loadouts because of this. EDIT: Can you possibly give us a time frame as to when we might see these.
Kaios Reborn Neanderthal Nation 10	Posted - 2013.05.23 12:27:00 - [38] - Quote i would love this
martinofski Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire 118	Posted - 2013.05.23 12:30:00 - [39] - Quote Good! I have been preaching this since uprising started, glad it is finally on the table. Not sure why Chromebreaker is suggesting removing the sentinel, even though I understand it is worse than the basic, with useless bonuses. The best is to have all the variant to be able to test and provide feedback and at one point correct the sentinel and the other all together. My current concern is the SP, I requested my respec as many did, but until they bring in other races for the scout and heavy, I will most probably stick with militia stuff until I can spec into something else than the Amarr, which I never intended to use. Basically, the Amarr invented the heavy suit, but like in real life, competiton stole a suit (with the use of the newly developped cloaking device). They got copied and improved to be use by the other races weapon of choice and war style. First prototypes suits were just straight Amarr design with some internal mods to modules and bio-mechanic Jenza, have CCP proposed this, or do you plan to propose it to them? I know Remnant basically proposed the same, but he was taking about type-II and other variants. This for me could be push just a little further in the skill tree and already separate the races like other (medium and light) suits.
ChromeBreaker SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 486	Posted - 2013.05.23 12:59:00 - [40] - Quote martinofski wrote: Not sure why Chromebreaker is suggesting removing the sentinel, even though I understand it is worse than the basic, with useless bonuses. The best is to have all the variant to be able to test and provide feedback and at one point correct the sentinel and the other all together. How can you add a suit without its primary use? its like putting the amarr assualt in without scrambler rifles and lasers? or the minmatar scout without any melee weapons lol you can put them in... but im against it untill theyre ready.

Isarian Menoptra Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 129	Posted - 2013.05.23 13:01:00 - [41] - Quote I support this. However, I think this needs to happen after the respec, or another respec needs to happen after all suits are available. Forcing players to specialize before all of the "initial" planned suit types drop is trouble, since suits can take a month to properly skill into.
Calroon DeVil Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 25	Posted - 2013.05.23 13:05:00 - [42] - Quote Do it, quick. Since you can pair it with the respec currently going on.
Hecarim Van Hohen The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 60	Posted - 2013.05.23 13:07:00 - [43] - Quote Nice idea but no, it's a cheap fix and that's that.
martinofski Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire 118	Posted - 2013.05.23 13:10:00 - [44] - Quote ChromeBreaker wrote: martinofski wrote: Not sure why Chromebreaker is suggesting removing the sentinel, even though I understand it is worse than the basic, with useless bonuses. The best is to have all the variant to be able to test and provide feedback and at one point correct the sentinel and the other all together. How can you add a suit without its primary use? its like putting the amarr assualt in without scrambler rifles and lasers? or the minmatar scout without any melee weapons lol you can put them in... but im against it untill theyre ready. I understand you don't want another useless suit like the sentinel, I don't as well. but I am pretty sure we could use a suit from the same race as the Forge gun(Gallente?) and one for the minmatar HMG, so we get some corresponding bonuses and playstyle stats. Sure thing, if they don't show what they are (at least here on the forum in a spec sheet) we will never know if they look ready to be deployed. I don't care about the look, but I do about the functionnality of it. You're just showing in some way the necessity to have the other Heavy suits variants, since the current Amarr suit is the one being useless, without it's Amarr weapon to match.
ChromeBreaker SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 486	Posted - 2013.05.23 13:19:00 - [45] - Quote martinofski wrote: ChromeBreaker wrote: martinofski wrote: Not sure why Chromebreaker is suggesting removing the sentinel, even though I understand it is worse than the basic, with useless bonuses. The best is to have all the variant to be able to test and provide feedback and at one point correct the sentinel and the other all together. How can you add a suit without its primary use? its like putting the amarr assualt in without scrambler rifles and lasers? or the minmatar scout without any melee weapons lol you can put them in... but im against it untill theyre ready. I understand you don't want another useless suit like the sentinel, I don't as well. but I am pretty sure we could use a suit from the same race as the Forge gun(Gallente?) and one for the minmatar HMG, so we get some corresponding bonuses and playstyle stats. Sure thing, if they don't show what they are (at least here on the forum in a spec sheet) we will never know if they look ready to be deployed. I don't care about the look, but I do about the functionnality of it. You're just showing in some way the necessity to have the other Heavy suits variants, since the current Amarr suit is the one being useless, without it's Amarr weapon to match. The 4 racial suits need to be balanced against each other and you cant do that untill the other weapons are out... dont want another cal logi. Also people will just spec into the suits with the guns and then moan when the others come out. All or nothing.
Django Quik R.I.f.t Orion Empire 584	Posted - 2013.05.23 13:26:00 - [46] - Quote You mean to say that the reason we don't have these already is because the art isn't ready yet? Are you kidding me? I thought that the reason we were still waiting for the other racial variants was that CCP were working on the layouts and balances and stuff.
martinofski Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire 118	Posted - 2013.05.23 14:07:00 - [47] - Quote ChromeBreaker wrote: martinofski wrote: ChromeBreaker wrote: martinofski wrote: Not sure why Chromebreaker is suggesting removing the sentinel, even though I understand it is worse than the basic, with useless bonuses. The best is to have all the variant to be able to test and provide feedback and at one point correct the sentinel and the other all together. How can you add a suit without its primary use? its like putting the amarr assualt in without scrambler rifles and lasers? or the minmatar scout without any melee weapons lol you can put them in... but im against it untill theyre ready. I understand you don't want another useless suit like the sentinel, I don't as well. but I am pretty sure we could use a suit from the same race as the Forge gun(Gallente?) and one for the minmatar HMG, so we get some corresponding bonuses and playstyle stats. Sure thing, if they don't show what they are (at least here on the forum in a spec sheet) we will never know if they look ready to be deployed. I don't care about the look, but I do about the functionnality of it. You're just showing in some way the necessity to have the other Heavy suits variants, since the current Amarr suit is the one being useless, without it's Amarr weapon to match. The 4 racial suits need to be balanced against each other and you cant do that untill the other weapons are out... dont want another cal logi. Also people will just spec into the suits with the guns and then moan when the others come out. All or nothing. Not sure weapons will make every suit balanced or not, most suit have bonus related to suit itself, not to their weapon, so you don't necessary need to use a weapon/suit combo all the time. The sentinel has a bonus related to the gun feedback damage, which is lame, even if they release a huge laser with feedback damage in my eyes, unless this gun would deal 1000hp in feedback damage, I doubt the 10% bonus would bring much benefits. 10% over 1000hp in feedback damage, that is a big 100hp saved from the bonus, on a 1500+HP heavy suit...useless, you still lose 900hp. anyway. If feedback damage is less, it's even more pointless, saving 30hp over a 300hp dmg on a 1500hp pool, lol.
Cody Sietz The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 137	Posted - 2013.05.23 14:11:00 - [48] - Quote Love it.
2-Ton Twenty-One Imperfects Negative-Feedback 563	Posted - 2013.05.23 14:14:00 - [49] - Quote This is the only time I have every agreed with you jenza, I am a little ashamed... Still a good point is a good point and I'm a big man. +1 For feedback I think they should be colored dif so people can make the distinction easy in combat.
2-Ton Twenty-One Imperfects Negative-Feedback 563	Posted - 2013.05.23 14:18:00 - [50] - Quote ChromeBreaker wrote: martinofski wrote: ChromeBreaker wrote: martinofski wrote: Not sure why Chromebreaker is suggesting removing the sentinel, even though I understand it is worse than the basic, with useless bonuses. The best is to have all the variant to be able to test and provide feedback and at one point correct the sentinel and the other all together. How can you add a suit without its primary use? its like putting the amarr assualt in without scrambler rifles and lasers? or the minmatar scout without any melee weapons lol you can put them in... but im against it untill theyre ready. I understand you don't want another useless suit like the sentinel, I don't as well. but I am pretty sure we could use a suit from the same race as the Forge gun(Gallente?) and one for the minmatar HMG, so we get some corresponding bonuses and playstyle stats. Sure thing, if they don't show what they are (at least here on the forum in a spec sheet) we will never know if they look ready to be deployed. I don't care about the look, but I do about the functionnality of it. You're just showing in some way the necessity to have the other Heavy suits variants, since the current Amarr suit is the one being useless, without it's Amarr weapon to match. The 4 racial suits need to be balanced against each other and you cant do that untill the other weapons are out... dont want another cal logi. Also people will just spec into the suits with the guns and then moan when the others come out. All or nothing. Whos hands you want this in CCPs or ours? We are the testers. From what we have seen CCP do we would do a far better job of shaking out the suits then CCP would. And this way we could have suits that playstyle well now without weapons for suits that don't exist yet. The sentinel is useless as its primary bonus applies to nothing of value. Add the other racial suits with placeholder models hell even add the other weapons with placeholder models

Maximus Stryker Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 474	Posted - 2013.05.23 14:22:00 - [51] - Quote jenza aranda wrote: Hey all. One of the ideas things that has been discussed with the CPM is the idea to have placeholder models for all the currently missing racial variants (gal, min, cal heavy, cal & amar light) to have placeholder models with all the intended slot loadouts, skills, skill bonuses and stats untill such a time where the art department is ready to implement them. We think that currently, a lot of the suits seem to be trying to balance themselves for options that dont yet exist which is kinda flawed. Traditionally CCP doesn't really like the use of placeholders but in this instance we think its fairly important. Any feedback and thoughts on this would be very valuable. great post Jenza. This is a great idea, I personally don't care what my heavy looks like or if he looks exactly like the proto basic or any version of the heavies in existence...make them all look like Skin Weaves for all I care...just show me what the intended module slots, Shield/Armour HP and racial bonuses so I can make a decision... I would love it if I could do this at the time of getting my skill respec so I can go back to heavy. I want to play as a heavy but am not putting all my skill points into it when I only have 1 race to choose from...despite that I chose that race for the logistics class...
The Steel Curtain 843 Boot Camp 1	Posted - 2013.05.23 14:24:00 - [52] - Quote jenza aranda wrote: Hey all. One of the ideas things that has been discussed with the CPM is the idea to have placeholder models for all the currently missing racial variants (gal, min, cal heavy, cal & amar light) to have placeholder models with all the intended slot loadouts, skills, skill bonuses and stats untill such a time where the art department is ready to implement them. We think that currently, a lot of the suits seem to be trying to balance themselves for options that dont yet exist which is kinda flawed. Traditionally CCP doesn't really like the use of placeholders but in this instance we think its fairly important. Any feedback and thoughts on this would be very valuable. yes they should do it, that way we can start to get full balance in game
THE GREY CARDINAL PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 99	Posted - 2013.05.23 14:26:00 - [53] - Quote This should absolutely be done. Why should heavy and light frame users be gimped in their selection while logis and assaults have the full range to choose from? With the upcoming optional skill respec, I'd say this should be implemented ASAP so veryone can truly find the right suit for their playstyle.
DeeJay One BetaMax. CRONOS. 33	Posted - 2013.05.23 14:27:00 - [54] - Quote +1 on that. Otherwise a solid confirmation that there will be a respec for the specific missing suit types when then finally all arrive. So if they don't stub the suits yet, we will get a all skills refunded for the race that the suit is in now. (not a full respec, but only that branch of the dropsuit skill tree)
jenza aranda BetaMax. CRONOS. 1487	Posted - 2013.05.23 14:49:00 - [55] - Quote Hecarim Van Hohen wrote: Nice idea but no, it's a cheap fix and that's that. its indeed a cheap fix but in our opinion it works.
ChromeBreaker SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 489	Posted - 2013.05.23 14:51:00 - [56] - Quote jenza aranda wrote: Hecarim Van Hohen wrote: Nice idea but no, it's a cheap fix and that's that. its indeed a cheap fix but in our opinion it works. And the useless sentinal bonuses?
jenza aranda BetaMax. CRONOS. 1487	Posted - 2013.05.23 14:52:00 - [57] - Quote ChromeBreaker wrote: jenza aranda wrote: Hecarim Van Hohen wrote: Nice idea but no, it's a cheap fix and that's that. its indeed a cheap fix but in our opinion it works. And the useless sentinal bonuses? they need to be changed but thats another issue entirely.
Oxskull Duncarino Shadow Company HQ 190	Posted - 2013.05.23 14:53:00 - [58] - Quote jenza aranda wrote: Hey all. One of the ideas things that has been discussed with the CPM is the idea to have placeholder models for all the currently missing racial variants (gal, min, cal heavy, cal & amar light) to have placeholder models with all the intended slot loadouts, skills, skill bonuses and stats untill such a time where the art department is ready to implement them. We think that currently, a lot of the suits seem to be trying to balance themselves for options that dont yet exist which is kinda flawed. Traditionally CCP doesn't really like the use of placeholders but in this instance we think its fairly important. Any feedback and thoughts on this would be very valuable. Brilliant. If it is just the actual artwork then put in all the frames in a placeholder Amarr design at least. We can then actually get the variety. We need to know though, as others have already said, if this can be done in the next week so that the SP respec can be used.
ChromeBreaker SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 489	Posted - 2013.05.23 14:54:00 - [59] - Quote jenza aranda wrote: ChromeBreaker wrote: jenza aranda wrote: Hecarim Van Hohen wrote: Nice idea but no, it's a cheap fix and that's that. its indeed a cheap fix but in our opinion it works. And the useless sentinal bonuses? they need to be changed but thats another issue entirely. Do your place holders include the other racial variants of the sentinel? How can you balance them? maybe that "heat build up damage reduction bonus" thing... is actually useful?
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations 3161	Posted - 2013.05.23 14:54:00 - [60] - Quote DOOO ITTTTT But if you convince them to, you have to convince them to do a partial respec. Say you went Amarr sentinal, but you want to be Gallente. You should have all those points refunded from racial dropsuits, so you can either put them back, or chose your new suit.



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