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Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2458	Posted - 2014.10.29 15:36:00 - [1] - Quote If every Dust player now has to hit a button to even get picked up or to even have the option to get picked up all of DUST will suffer. Your Clone doesn't technically belong to you... It belongs to the team as a whole. When your clone gets picked up off the floor, You didn't loose a clone... therefore your deaths should be -1. When Mercenaries are no longer pressing a revive button there will be no point in ever fitting a Nanite Injector. Making The "Needle" Obsolete in the game of DUST. This will hurt the Logi class, Teamwork, Immersion, tactics, gameplay... And clutch games that come down to clone counts(Skirm,Dom). It screaaaams of it being a giant LAZY fix for an issue we have had since Beta..... Please.... Pleaseee..... Figure out another option. This fix I fear will do more harm to the whole of the game to help an individual feel better about their K/D. Its crazy.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4452	Posted - 2014.10.29 15:40:00 - [2] - Quote I definitely would prefer an accept/reject revive button, as I've said many times. Though this is better than doing nothing. The way nanite injectors previously worked is arguably a form of abusive gameplay, because it allowed other players to effectively take control of your character. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2460	Posted - 2014.10.29 15:47:00 - [3] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: I definitely would prefer an accept/reject revive button, as I've said many times. Though this is better than doing nothing. The way nanite injectors previously worked is arguably a form of abusive gameplay, because it allowed other players to effectively take control of your character. This is the SAME as the vehicle "Locking" Feature they gave us.... It's un acceptable and will hurt the entire game for sake of the individual. It is the complete opposite to how a Developer of an IP should make an addition. having a feature Focus on the Individual instead of the game as a whole. This feature will do nothing but obsolete needles and ruin the entire Lore around being an immortal clone soldier and the entire lore ABOUT CLONES for the sake of an easy lazy fix.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4452	Posted - 2014.10.29 15:49:00 - [4] - Quote I'm not fond of the vehicle locking feature at all, and I do make that clear to CCP when possible. At least, the extent that it makes it hard for me to allow passengers to come with me without wasting precious deployment time. Players absolutely need to be able to decide whether or not they can be picked up though. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4316	Posted - 2014.10.29 15:49:00 - [5] - Quote Agree with the OP. People need to get over themselves and their precious KDR. Plus, now that they give shield HP back too, there's a lot less instakill. What should be done: - Take the needles off of the medic starter fits - Either a "reject" button or return of the "bleedout" button. (eliminates griefing) The default should be to accept revives, imo. You're the selfish one who doesn't want my needle? Hit the button. Everyone else shouldn't have to. Your loss, though, even on my BPO logi I run ADV needles and much less than 10% of the people I revive die before I rep them to full health (minus the occasional blueberry who runs off like an idiot and gets himself killed... not my problem). (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Kevall Longstride Dust University Ivy League 1923	Posted - 2014.10.29 15:54:00 - [6] - Quote Removal of exploitable/griefing mechanic > than retention of lore. Needlef'ing is an extremely annoying place to find yourself and must be eliminated. It's not the perfect solution and needs iteration but it couldn't be allowed to continue. CPM 1 member CEO of DUST University Vist dustcpm.com
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1195	Posted - 2014.10.29 16:00:00 - [7] - Quote Bethhy wrote: If every Dust player now has to hit a button to even get picked up or to even have the option to get picked up all of DUST will suffer. Your Clone doesn't technically belong to you... It belongs to the team as a whole. When your clone gets picked up off the floor, You didn't loose a clone... therefore your deaths should be -1. When Mercenaries are no longer pressing a revive button there will be no point in ever fitting a Nanite Injector. Making The "Needle" Obsolete in the game of DUST. This will hurt the Logi class, Teamwork, Immersion, tactics, gameplay... And clutch games that come down to clone counts(Skirm,Dom). It screaaaams of it being a giant LAZY fix for an issue we have had since Beta..... Please.... Pleaseee..... Figure out another option. This fix I fear will do more harm to the whole of the game to help an individual feel better about their K/D. Its crazy. There have been matches i've been in and we've won because i kept using my pro injector and rep tool on several allies without them requesting it. We had run out of ammo and hives and it became a fist brawl. And because i was willfully injecting my allies,we won. The problem is,there's no real drawback for bleeding out. So,players have 0 problems QQing about revives. If there were a fine or some other punishment for throwing away a clone (you don't own). Then players would beg for injectors. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Jack McReady Dust University Ivy League 1544	Posted - 2014.10.29 16:00:00 - [8] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: Removal of exploitable/griefing mechanic > than retention of lore. Needlef'ing is an extremely annoying place to find yourself and must be eliminated. It's not the perfect solution and needs iteration but it couldn't be allowed to continue. why not remove the "score penalty" and add a refuse revive button. much better solution.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2461	Posted - 2014.10.29 16:01:00 - [9] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: Removal of exploitable/griefing mechanic > than retention of lore. Needlef'ing is an extremely annoying place to find yourself and must be eliminated. It's not the perfect solution and needs iteration but it couldn't be allowed to continue. Your completely ignoring the history of DUST to try and be a CCP apologist. We have had needles since beta... I have played this game since closed. Pickign someone up with a needle in Chromosome was viable.... Every Assault suit had two equipment slots... Every player had a needle. Why? Because you had a camera angle over your incapacitated body and could prepare to defend as you got up... There was next to 0 delay from being picked up to having full camera updates less then a second from being picked up. CCP implemented the planetside 2 like "Kill screen".... And with it came MONSTER delays to when you get picked up in the game till when your clients camera comes back on. This entire Needle spam problem was CREATED by CCP. Everyone had needles in Chromosome and Everyone loved being picked up. CCP Screwed that over. Now they are about to put a nail in the coffin on Nanite injectors forever. With a lazy sorry excuse for a fix.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4458	Posted - 2014.10.29 16:02:00 - [10] - Quote We'd like to continue to encourage CCP to change the way deaths are recorded, so being revived does not count against players as a "death", since their clone was not terminated. We'd also like to continue to encourage CCP to implement additional WP for finishing off an incapacitated clone, and a change of the injector mechanic to an accept/reject mechanic so players can decide whether or not to accept a revive if they're under fire or being camped by a griefer. These are all things on my personal list, at least, and several other CPMs support some or all of these concepts. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.

Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2461	Posted - 2014.10.29 16:07:00 - [11] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: We'd like to continue to encourage CCP to change the way deaths are recorded, so being revived does not count against players as a "death", since their clone was not terminated. We'd also like to continue to encourage CCP to implement additional WP for finishing off an incapacitated clone, and a change of the injector mechanic to an accept/reject mechanic so players can decide whether or not to accept a revive if they're under fire or being camped by a griefer. These are all things on my personal list, at least, and several other CPMs support some or all of these concepts. If a player gets their death removed when they are picked up... And then has a chance to defend their ISK investment each time they get up... There should be no choice to try and avoid a "Greifer" That CLone is the teams and it can win the match. The Lag that CCP Created with the "Kill screen" is what created the ability for greifers to even camp your body.... in Chromosome you could die or be caught on a reload trying to "grief" with anything but a redline sniper.
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Capital Punishment. 2235	Posted - 2014.10.29 16:12:00 - [12] - Quote I got Needle Spammed just yesterday. Killed, before I could respawn, needle, dead. It happened three times and when the killer got in front of me and I saw that he wasn't moving, the only way out of it was to turn the PS3 off. Getting grinded for kills over and over has nothing to do with "wanting to preserve your KD/R." That is just a very minor thing that I don't think anyone should really care about. Getting Needle Spammed is literally like having a hard lock-up on your system. With that being gone, I cannot complain even if I do have to hit X to Call for Help. And I can flip the scenario just like you can mate: "If I want to be raised because I don't need a new suit to help the team, I will ask you for help. Don't just be selfish and wanting to get the WP for raising me in my Scout Uplink suit. Let me come back in the back line so I can call in my Railgun to take out that Blaster Tank." Basically, the situation is too large in scope to say that not wanting a needle is selfish. Perhaps one of the reasons it is "Call for help" rather than bleed out is that you can technically get needled before the killed by screen pops up. In what happened to me yesterday, someone being fast could keep doing that and low and behold the main problem that was set out to be fixed... wasn't. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2461	Posted - 2014.10.29 16:23:00 - [13] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: I got Needle Spammed just yesterday. Killed, before I could respawn, needle, dead. It happened three times and when the killer got in front of me and I saw that he wasn't moving, the only way out of it was to turn the PS3 off. Getting grinded for kills over and over has nothing to do with "wanting to preserve your KD/R." That is just a very minor thing that I don't think anyone should really care about. Getting Needle Spammed is literally like having a hard lock-up on your system. With that being gone, I cannot complain even if I do have to hit X to Call for Help. And I can flip the scenario just like you can mate: "If I want to be raised because I don't need a new suit to help the team, I will ask you for help. Don't just be selfish and wanting to get the WP for raising me in my Scout Uplink suit. Let me come back in the back line so I can call in my Railgun to take out that Blaster Tank." Basically, the situation is too large in scope to say that not wanting a needle is selfish. Perhaps one of the reasons it is "Call for help" rather than bleed out is that you can technically get needled before the killed by screen pops up. In what happened to me yesterday, someone being fast could keep doing that and low and behold the main problem that was set out to be fixed... wasn't. Your trying to add the one need for a death (Switching suits) as justification..... It's not. There are supply depots in the game and nanohives around. There are options sitting on the map to fix this issue. If you choose an Uplink fast suit... there are consequences.. Like anything in DUST. Like has been said and should be known... We never had that lag in DUST when your client loads in after you get picked up. CCP put that in this game when they put the "Death screen" They created the lag and the delay allowing needle spamming to become this way. The Broken abusable feature of todays needle spam was a CCP self created problem. There aren't many players who have been here for 3-6 months+ that havent figured out how to get around perpetual needle spam. Just saying..
Booby Tuesdays Tuesdays With Boobies 902	Posted - 2014.10.29 16:26:00 - [14] - Quote No more 1337 "slayers" farming revive kills? I like it. ( . )( . )

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 9613	Posted - 2014.10.29 16:35:00 - [15] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: I definitely would prefer an accept/reject revive button, as I've said many times. Though this is better than doing nothing. The way nanite injectors previously worked is arguably a form of abusive gameplay, because it allowed other players to effectively take control of your character. I think denyrevive is terrible, from all standpoints. Why would a human being ever decline a revive? Also, teasing a logi by having him run over, put himself in danger and then refuse is disrespectful. If you want to picked up, you ask for it. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1197	Posted - 2014.10.29 16:41:00 - [16] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: I definitely would prefer an accept/reject revive button, as I've said many times. Though this is better than doing nothing. The way nanite injectors previously worked is arguably a form of abusive gameplay, because it allowed other players to effectively take control of your character. I think denyrevive is terrible, from all standpoints. Why would a human being ever decline a revive? Also, teasing a logi by having him run over, put himself in danger and then refuse is disrespectful. If you want to picked up, you ask for it. That happens alot too. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Capital Punishment. 2236	Posted - 2014.10.29 16:58:00 - [17] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Joseph Ridgeson wrote: I got Needle Spammed just yesterday. Killed, before I could respawn, needle, dead. It happened three times and when the killer got in front of me and I saw that he wasn't moving, the only way out of it was to turn the PS3 off. Getting grinded for kills over and over has nothing to do with "wanting to preserve your KD/R." That is just a very minor thing that I don't think anyone should really care about. Getting Needle Spammed is literally like having a hard lock-up on your system. With that being gone, I cannot complain even if I do have to hit X to Call for Help. And I can flip the scenario just like you can mate: "If I want to be raised because I don't need a new suit to help the team, I will ask you for help. Don't just be selfish and wanting to get the WP for raising me in my Scout Uplink suit. Let me come back in the back line so I can call in my Railgun to take out that Blaster Tank." Basically, the situation is too large in scope to say that not wanting a needle is selfish. Perhaps one of the reasons it is "Call for help" rather than bleed out is that you can technically get needled before the killed by screen pops up. In what happened to me yesterday, someone being fast could keep doing that and low and behold the main problem that was set out to be fixed... wasn't. Your trying to add the one need for a death (Switching suits) as justification..... It's not. There are supply depots in the game and nanohives around. There are options sitting on the map to fix this issue. If you choose an Uplink fast suit... there are consequences.. Like anything in DUST. Like has been said and should be known... We never had that lag in DUST when your client loads in after you get picked up. CCP put that in this game when they put the "Death screen" They created the lag and the delay allowing needle spamming to become this way. The Broken abusable feature of todays needle spam was a CCP self created problem. There aren't many players who have been here for 3 months+ that haven't figured out how to get around perpetual needle spam without exiting the game. Just saying.. The part I had in quotes was just a strawman, same as saying that is it selfish to not want a needle. Anyone can give any reason for wanting to needle everyone or not wanting to be needled that is "most helpful" to the team. That was what I was getting on about, the view that it is "selfish to not want a needle" when it can be seen just as "selfish" to want to needle someone. Again, when using strawmen or just framing one side as negative and the other as positive. The scope of the issue is far larger than "selfish", to be honest. I don't see how asking for a needle is all that of a concern. People who would have wanted a needle will ask for it. Those that don't won't get needled. Seems like a situation that works out to me. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2461	Posted - 2014.10.29 17:03:00 - [18] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: I definitely would prefer an accept/reject revive button, as I've said many times. Though this is better than doing nothing. The way nanite injectors previously worked is arguably a form of abusive gameplay, because it allowed other players to effectively take control of your character. I think denyrevive is terrible, from all standpoints. Why would a human being ever decline a revive? Also, teasing a logi by having him run over, put himself in danger and then refuse is disrespectful. If you want to picked up, you ask for it. It is done now... People see the red Text at the bottom of the Death screen that tells them there is a player in "X"meters away from them... then they quickly respawn when they get within 10m. And yes It is very annoying specially as you break cover and risk yourself to try and pick them up. But this fix is addressing the small issues instead of the mechanic as a whole in the large picture. Not only from the DUST 514 IP, But also as a test bed into a possible future of Legion. We are asking for the Nanite injector mechanic to also fit in line with the story that has been told with DUST since the original showing at fanfest. Clones are mere vessels that our consciousness is transferred into. When that clone is terminated beyond repair our consciousness is immediately transfer into a new clone. If we are incapacitated on the battlefield and can be revived with Nanites then our consciousness hasn't been transferred and We haven't died or cost the team a clone. The Community and CCP adressed this issue in part in the beginning of Uprising, When reviving a Mercenary still took away from total clone values. That issue has been fixed and has improved competition and has made some truly epic moments in DUST. We only ask you guys to finish the concept. Give us a reason and a drive to defend our suit, our clone and our teams chance at success, Give us a chance to Fight for our ISK investment. Give squads hope that if they stick together and pick each other up they always have a chance. Change the future of DUST.
gauntlet44 LbowDeep Heaven84 Devils General Tso's Alliance 163	Posted - 2014.10.29 17:20:00 - [19] - Quote i already do this, all my logi fits, half my commando fits and more than one assault fit carries needles. but no one gets needled unless its blinking - period also play as strangeland stranger, larlac theest, gauntlett5487, and balacs sixkin
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 278	Posted - 2014.10.29 17:22:00 - [20] - Quote Nice troll dude, i got you figured out at locking blueberries who would try to steal my tank or dropship being is actually me being sefish. But for those more easily duped, i got a proto minmatar logi and all of my equipment is prototype. I like this change, ends the dirty filthy needle spam, a lot of greifing and i dont have to risk my suit and all of the equipment costs that come with it on someone who didnt want a revive in the first place. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.

Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2461	Posted - 2014.10.29 17:22:00 - [21] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Bethhy wrote: Joseph Ridgeson wrote: I got Needle Spammed just yesterday. Killed, before I could respawn, needle, dead. It happened three times and when the killer got in front of me and I saw that he wasn't moving, the only way out of it was to turn the PS3 off. Getting grinded for kills over and over has nothing to do with "wanting to preserve your KD/R." That is just a very minor thing that I don't think anyone should really care about. Getting Needle Spammed is literally like having a hard lock-up on your system. With that being gone, I cannot complain even if I do have to hit X to Call for Help. And I can flip the scenario just like you can mate: "If I want to be raised because I don't need a new suit to help the team, I will ask you for help. Don't just be selfish and wanting to get the WP for raising me in my Scout Uplink suit. Let me come back in the back line so I can call in my Railgun to take out that Blaster Tank." Basically, the situation is too large in scope to say that not wanting a needle is selfish. Perhaps one of the reasons it is "Call for help" rather than bleed out is that you can technically get needled before the killed by screen pops up. In what happened to me yesterday, someone being fast could keep doing that and low and behold the main problem that was set out to be fixed... wasn't. Your trying to add the one need for a death (Switching suits) as justification..... It's not. There are supply depots in the game and nanohives around. There are options sitting on the map to fix this issue. If you choose an Uplink fast suit... there are consequences.. Like anything in DUST. Like has been said and should be known... We never had that lag in DUST when your client loads in after you get picked up. CCP put that in this game when they put the "Death screen" They created the lag and the delay allowing needle spamming to become this way. The Broken abusable feature of todays needle spam was a CCP self created problem. There aren't many players who have been here for 3 months+ that haven't figured out how to get around perpetual needle spam without exiting the game. Just saying.. The part I had in quotes was just a strawman, same as saying that is it selfish to not want a needle. Anyone can give any reason for wanting to needle everyone or not wanting to be needled that is "most helpful" to the team. That was what I was getting on about, the view that it is "selfish to not want a needle" when it can be seen just as "selfish" to want to needle someone. Again, when using strawmen or just framing one side as negative and the other as positive. The scope of the issue is far larger than "selfish", to be honest. I don't see how asking for a needle is all that of a concern. People who would have wanted a needle will ask for it. Those that don't won't get needled. Seems like a situation that works out to me. The Selfish argument is just one made on small issues. The simple fact is that the clone belongs to the team as a whole... In the large picture that is all it is... It's as simple as that. That one clone or the collection of even 5 to even 100+(If these changes persist) throughout a match can cost a team a chance at success from a small thing to tactical position to gaining a objective to the large scale victory. You should always be present on the whole teams HUD that a team clone is down and needs to be revived. If there is mere seconds in between any delay in picking you up, there is tons of time to respawn and do what ever small personal issues that work. The issue people have are more a terrible experience with it and the limited chance at success or survival when being picked up from a random source. This is created by mechanics that have been put in place by CCP. We want a chance at being picked up and a chance to defend ourselfs, But because of limitations and infinite death penalties it sours the experience. Same goes for the attacker... That scramble does nothing bu enrich the entire experience. In short, this ADDS to DUST..... Instead of TAKING AWAY.... which is what is on the table yet again.
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2394	Posted - 2014.10.29 17:30:00 - [22] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: I definitely would prefer an accept/reject revive button, as I've said many times. Though this is better than doing nothing. The way nanite injectors previously worked is arguably a form of abusive gameplay, because it allowed other players to effectively take control of your character. I think denyrevive is terrible, from all standpoints. Why would a human being ever decline a revive? Also, teasing a logi by having him run over, put himself in danger and then refuse is disrespectful. If you want to picked up, you ask for it. ^^^This. Also, you'd be able to hold on to a receive while you decide whether to not you want to be revived. This can lead to a) people holding to be revived at more opportune moments (a little unfair imo), and b) bleeding out when either you forget to revive, don't notice it, or there's not enough time to react. Overall I think the new change will be the best. PS: Have you fixed or looked at "ghosts?" Where a player dies and bleeds out but there's an un-interactable revive symbol (usually even without a body nearby). Dust is there! I was real! Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2461	Posted - 2014.10.29 17:35:00 - [23] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Nice troll dude, i got you figured out at locking blueberries who would try to steal my tank or dropship being is actually me being sefish. But for those more easily duped, i got a proto minmatar logi and all of my equipment is prototype. I like this change, ends the dirty filthy needle spam, a lot of greifing and i dont have to risk my suit and all of the equipment costs that come with it on someone who didnt want a revive in the first place. Everyone saw GTA 5's car locking mechanics... How you can set it to crew only, PSN friends... Passenger seats only... And drooled and begged CCP. Even me foolishly... We got what you know now for a vehicle locking feature.... a timed delay before non squad mates can get into your vehicle... Risking your suit is always your choice... That has nothing to do with the intent of the player that is getting picked up.
Horizon Limit Nexus Balusa Horizon 121	Posted - 2014.10.29 18:02:00 - [24] - Quote Real problem is that when you choose your fit, your clone status is already -1, when the enemy kills you your clone status is 0 again. Basically you are a dead man walking, but if you manage to finish the battle without getting killed, your clone get killed by the game to get back to the merc quarters and your fitting is refunded. Cal scout vs Cal scout
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 595	Posted - 2014.10.29 18:18:00 - [25] - Quote My main fit is a Commando with 80% needle... & yet I agree with this providing once someone asks for a revive they can't suddenly bleed out before you get there, that is the most annoying thing right after pressing to revive a guy and some militia needle comes over and does it instead. I personally think (if it's possible) you should add a different symbol (or symbol colour) for the medics on the map, so you can tell what kind of needle the guy closest has. On top of that actually choosing the tier of needle that can revive you would be great.
Ashley Swift G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 12	Posted - 2014.10.29 18:20:00 - [26] - Quote Or OR how about a death isn't counted until the clone is terminated (like it should be). Now you getting picked up and dropped in 2 seconds won't give you more deaths. I know it's logical, I know it's crazy, but it works. Now that you're close I feel like coming undone
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 732	Posted - 2014.10.29 19:01:00 - [27] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: I definitely would prefer an accept/reject revive button, as I've said many times. Though this is better than doing nothing. The way nanite injectors previously worked is arguably a form of abusive gameplay, because it allowed other players to effectively take control of your character. I think denyrevive is terrible, from all standpoints. Why would a human being ever decline a revive? Also, teasing a logi by having him run over, put himself in danger and then refuse is disrespectful. If you want to picked up, you ask for it. Just make it so the Logi gets some points for injection. The rest of the points are given if the clone actually revives, and this would incentivize injecting in safe areas, which is just good game design if you ask me. Other games work this way, and its a good system. >Clone goes down >Logi injects clone >Logi gets 30 Injection WP ->Clone accepts revive offer >>Logi gets 30 Revival WP ->Clone declines revive offer >>Logi gets no revival WP Also, someone would decline being revived for the same reason that they would ask to not be revived in the first place. They don't want to get marked with a death, or want to spawn in with a different fit. We are immortal clone soldiers that laugh in the face of death and self-preservation insticts, we've lost a lor of our humanity. Swag-suit4lyfe!
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 600	Posted - 2014.10.29 19:56:00 - [28] - Quote Too much wimpy Logi revived me and I died crap... Comando Needle is the way, you revive a guy right where he's been shot & you stand between the squishy noob that died and the guy shooting, giving him time to get up and run to safety... This is the way of the Commandddoooooooooooooooooooooooooooo... Yes this is a thing now... I'm making it a thing!
Doshneil Antaro Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 286	Posted - 2014.10.29 20:02:00 - [29] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Kevall Longstride wrote: Removal of exploitable/griefing mechanic > than retention of lore. Needlef'ing is an extremely annoying place to find yourself and must be eliminated. It's not the perfect solution and needs iteration but it couldn't be allowed to continue. Your completely ignoring the history of DUST to try and be a CCP apologist. We have had needles since beta... I have played this game since closed. Picking someone up with a needle in Chromosome was viable.... Every Assault suit had two equipment slots... Every player had a needle. Why? Because you had a camera angle over your incapacitated body and could prepare to defend as you got up... There was next to 0 delay from being picked up to having full camera updates less then a second from being picked up. CCP implemented the planetside 2 like "Kill screen".... And with it came MONSTER delays to when you get picked up in the game till when your clients camera comes back on. This entire Needle spam problem was CREATED by CCP. Everyone had needles in Chromosome and Everyone loved being picked up. CCP Screwed that over. Now they are about to put a nail in the coffin on Nanite injectors forever. With a lazy sorry excuse for a fix. This explanation is right on the mark. The current death screen needs to be put off until clone termination. Then if revived player can accept or bleed out. The current plan kills the needles from load outs, and would likely push logis into a slayer role. Being a full medic keeps one busy with reps and revives. Now instead of reviving that time will be used for killing. Logis would then see scouts with reps as the superior combat medic, and decide to put away the minni for the gal for scans/tank/slaying. MFW CCP brings back the qq of logi op, logi slays too well. Sage /thread
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13925	Posted - 2014.10.29 20:04:00 - [30] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: I definitely would prefer an accept/reject revive button, as I've said many times. Though this is better than doing nothing. The way nanite injectors previously worked is arguably a form of abusive gameplay, because it allowed other players to effectively take control of your character. This is the SAME as the vehicle "Locking" Feature they gave us.... It's un acceptable and will hurt the entire game for sake of the individual. It is the complete opposite to how a Developer of an IP should make an addition. having a feature Focus on the Individual instead of the game as a whole. This feature will do nothing but obsolete needles and ruin the entire Lore around being an immortal clone soldier and the entire lore ABOUT CLONES for the sake of an easy lazy fix. There we fundamentally disagree. That Vehicle is MY ASSET. It does not belong to the team or any outside entity. It is purely mine. I bought the hull. I fit the Proto Turrets. I drive the HAV. MY ISK! MY ISK! MY ISK! GÇ£How does this all work then?GÇ¥ GÇ£Like so Choirboy.GÇ¥ Mila to Kador, Sub Zero Club, Shoashu Sasaanko

Doshneil Antaro Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 286	Posted - 2014.10.29 20:05:00 - [31] - Quote Ashley Swift wrote: Or OR how about a death isn't counted until the clone is terminated (like it should be). Now you getting picked up and dropped in 2 seconds won't give you more deaths. I know it's logical, I know it's crazy, but it works. oh and this^. your not dead till you bleed out, so being revived should not count as a death. Sage /thread
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4471	Posted - 2014.10.29 20:08:00 - [32] - Quote True Adamance wrote: MY ISK! MY ISK! MY ISK! http://i.imgur.com/kFhLdOG.jpg CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2074	Posted - 2014.10.29 20:11:00 - [33] - Quote Here's an interesting thought. Lots of people here love their KDRs, right? So suppose you don't get a death counted against your KDR until you are terminated? This would have people wanting to be revived because it wouldn't hurt their KDRs. Proof that Rattati/CCP do listen to the playerbase.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4473	Posted - 2014.10.29 20:14:00 - [34] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Lots of people here love their KDRs, right? So suppose you don't get a death counted against your KDR until you are terminated? This would have people wanting to be revived because it wouldn't hurt their KDRs. This is a thing I've been asking for for a long time. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Doshneil Antaro Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 286	Posted - 2014.10.29 20:19:00 - [35] - Quote I think both sides of the argument can agree that the needle mechanics need to be changed. The following items listed would be the better way of implementing a solid fix: 1 Death is not recorded until clone termination. 2 Death screen is not shown until clone termination. 3 Revived player must accept revival or bleed out. This allows the revived to still be ready and have an active clear vision of the battlefield and would then have enough situational awareness to know wether to accept or choose death. The current scheduled fix will aid in the abandonment of the needle as well as logi slaying. Sage /thread
Meisterjager Jagermeister Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 383	Posted - 2014.10.29 20:26:00 - [36] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Your Clone doesn't technically belong to you... It belongs to the team as a whole. You didn't build that clone, someone else built it for you. Actually, my game belongs to me. If I don't want to get revived in the middle of a firefight knowing the hmg is still firing right in front of me, I now have the ability to make that choice. Quote: This will hurt ....clutch games that come down to clone counts(Skirm,Dom). This is actually a good point. But it can be easily corrected by good players knowing when it's most prudent to request a revive, especially in ambush. AKA - StarVenger
Meisterjager Jagermeister Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 383	Posted - 2014.10.29 20:38:00 - [37] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Lots of people here love their KDRs, right? So suppose you don't get a death counted against your KDR until you are terminated? This would have people wanting to be revived because it wouldn't hurt their KDRs. This is a thing I've been asking for for a long time. I understand why you would think this way, but I disagree. If you get put down, you got killed, no two ways about it. Guy who shot you earned a K, you unfortunately earned a D. Just because you can be revived doesn't mean you can un-ring that bell. AKA - StarVenger
Doshneil Antaro Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 286	Posted - 2014.10.29 20:39:00 - [38] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: I definitely would prefer an accept/reject revive button, as I've said many times. Though this is better than doing nothing. The way nanite injectors previously worked is arguably a form of abusive gameplay, because it allowed other players to effectively take control of your character. I think denyrevive is terrible, from all standpoints. Why would a human being ever decline a revive? Also, teasing a logi by having him run over, put himself in danger and then refuse is disrespectful. If you want to picked up, you ask for it. I see your point Rattati. Look at my post and just remove the idea #3 Doshneil Antaro wrote: I think both sides of the argument can agree that the needle mechanics need to be changed. The following items listed would be the better way of implementing a solid fix: 1 Death is not recorded until clone termination. 2 Death screen is not shown until clone termination. 3 Revived player must accept revival or bleed out. This allows the revived to still be ready and have an active clear vision of the battlefield and would then have enough situational awareness to know wether to accept or choose death. The current scheduled fix will aid in the abandonment of the needle as well aspromote logi slaying. your current plan will do more harm while mine eliminates kdr greifing and will add to a more dynamically charged gameplay. Please rethink the current plan extensively. Sage /thread
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4477	Posted - 2014.10.29 20:43:00 - [39] - Quote Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Lots of people here love their KDRs, right? So suppose you don't get a death counted against your KDR until you are terminated? This would have people wanting to be revived because it wouldn't hurt their KDRs. This is a thing I've been asking for for a long time. I understand why you would think this way, but I disagree. If you get put down, you got killed, no two ways about it. Guy who shot you earned a K, you unfortunately earned a D. Just because you can be revived doesn't mean you can un-ring that bell. I disagree. I would actually give the guy who shot 'me' a kill, but my death shouldn't count until termination. I am still alive. You should give additional points when a clone is properly terminated. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Meisterjager Jagermeister Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 383	Posted - 2014.10.29 20:47:00 - [40] - Quote KDR is a meta stat. Revive is in game lore. The two are wholey separate. AKA - StarVenger

Meisterjager Jagermeister Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 383	Posted - 2014.10.29 20:57:00 - [41] - Quote Example: You and a red get into a 1v1. He beats you and has earned a K. You have lost and have earned a D. He leaves area and 10 seconds later logibro happens upon you and stabs you. Do you erase that D? Did you really survive that fight? AKA - StarVenger
CLONE117 True Pros Forever 845	Posted - 2014.10.29 20:58:00 - [42] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Agree with the OP. People need to get over themselves and their precious KDR. Plus, now that they give shield HP back too, there's a lot less instakill. What should be done: - Take the needles off of the medic starter fits - Either a "reject" button or return of the "bleedout" button. (eliminates griefing) The default should be to accept revives, imo. You're the selfish one who doesn't want my needle? Hit the button. Everyone else shouldn't have to. Your loss, though, even on my BPO logi I run ADV needles and much less than 10% of the people I revive die before I rep them to full health (minus the occasional blueberry who runs off like an idiot and gets himself killed... not my problem). do not take the the needle of the medic starter fits...unless your planing on giving it a rep tool instead. although that needle change will hurt the game.. then again.. a lot more ppl will be losing there stuff as a result of this. but most ppl who get picked up are retards anyways. so i guess it doesnt matter. its the exploitation that needs fixing. lest say u can only be needled three times 4th death on your clone is instant bleedout or something like that. it would have to warrant a timer between revives. idk. im gonna go more detailed. newb gets killed.. medic revives. dies again. and gets revived again. if newb dies again right after. its instant bleedout. if newb does not die right after a lives for around 10-20 secs.(number still to be determined). and then he goes down. it wont be instant bleedout. and thus he can be needled again. pve for dust 514. so what? u killed me twice with proto?. i killed you once with my mlt fit. that takes more skill.
CLONE117 True Pros Forever 845	Posted - 2014.10.29 21:00:00 - [43] - Quote Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote: Example: You and a red get into a 1v1. He beats you and has earned a K. You have lost and have earned a D. He leaves area and 10 seconds later logibro happens upon you and stabs you. Do you erase that D? Did you really survive that fight? i think its a yes to he survived the fight. did he win the fight?. no. but did he survive. yes. yes he did. pve for dust 514. so what? u killed me twice with proto?. i killed you once with my mlt fit. that takes more skill.
VikingKong iBUN Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 140	Posted - 2014.10.29 21:12:00 - [44] - Quote I always spam the "pick me up" button when I die anyway, even though it does nothing. I wouldn't mind the change because at least my random button spam will actually have a function.
CELESTA AUNGM Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 306	Posted - 2014.10.29 21:37:00 - [45] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I think denyrevive is terrible, from all standpoints. Why would a human being ever decline a revive? Also, teasing a logi by having him run over, put himself in danger and then refuse is disrespectful. If you want to picked up, you ask for it. As Celesta turns the corner of a building, she is incapacitated by a Sniper. Two blue mercs are nearby, and she can see on her map they are approaching her. The blue mercs want to help her, of course---but they donGÇÖt know how Celesta was dropped by a waiting Sniper who will likely claim one or both of them before they can step out and revive her. Only Celesta knows it was a Sniper. She prefers to stay dead and sacrifice her ONE clone life, rather than toss THREE clone lives away like cheap dice. Besides, only SHE knows where the sniper is, and she prefers to regen somewhere else right away and flank around to sweep him out of his shooting perch. I prefer GÇ£Revive-MeGÇ¥ to be automatically ON all the time, but that the incapacitated player have a brief chance to turn off that blinking icon before GÇ£medicsGÇ¥ even see her as needing assistance. Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne... No story can have life without writers and publishers.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2465	Posted - 2014.10.29 21:59:00 - [46] - Quote CELESTA AUNGM wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I think denyrevive is terrible, from all standpoints. Why would a human being ever decline a revive? Also, teasing a logi by having him run over, put himself in danger and then refuse is disrespectful. If you want to picked up, you ask for it. As Celesta turns the corner of a building, she is incapacitated by a Sniper. Two blue mercs are nearby, and she can see on her map they are approaching her. The blue mercs want to help her, of course---but they donGÇÖt know how Celesta was dropped by a waiting Sniper who will likely claim one or both of them before they can step out and revive her. Only Celesta knows it was a Sniper. She prefers to stay dead and sacrifice her ONE clone life, rather than toss THREE clone lives away like cheap dice. Besides, only SHE knows where the sniper is, and she prefers to regen somewhere else right away and flank around to sweep him out of his shooting perch. I prefer GÇ£Revive-MeGÇ¥ to be automatically ON all the time, but that the incapacitated player have a brief chance to turn off that blinking icon before GÇ£medicsGÇ¥ even see her as needing assistance. If they picked you up and -1 death, You then have a chance to defend your investment at no cost to yourself. If two logi's go there then both Logi's can pick each other up and force an error from the sniper or give them a chance to defend their isk investment. Giving a simple lazy fix to a Large scale problem such as reviving a clone and it doesn't -1 the death, or make sense in anyway of how you would explain the concept to anyone outside of the game.... Doesn't work. If you have seconds where you are sitting incapacitated you simply can choose a new suit and respawn long before any logistics or needle wearing mercenary will get to you. This is not an issue that needed to be fixed... Not now and not ever. WHY CCP is addressing this is they created a problem with the death screen that disables incapacitated mercenaries ability to defend themselves.... Thus creating a time where the Downed mercenaries client has to load back in... and the aggressor has suffered no lapse of awareness or time in their client updates... Allowing for a perpetual needle spam Abuse on the inexperienced DUST player... It's a massive flaw in game design and has to be fixed as it sheds poor light on the abilities of the entire CCP Shanghai studios. What is being said is that a simplistic fix that helps an individual instead of the proper fix that would help the entire game as a whole, aswell as do nothing but Add to DUST.... instead of a feature that does nothing but take away from the DUST experience for sake of the singular player. Allowing a incapacitated clone that gets revived via Nanite injectors to have -1 death does nothing but add to DUST. Giving extra War points for Mercenaries who finish off Incapacitated clones will do nothing but Add to DUST. Completely rendering the Nanite injector useless except if someone presses a button does nothing but take away from DUST 514 and hurts the general overall game.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 604	Posted - 2014.10.29 22:10:00 - [47] - Quote VikingKong iBUN wrote: I always spam the "pick me up" button when I die anyway, even though it does nothing. I wouldn't mind the change because at least my random button spam will actually have a function. It makes the 'dead guy' symbol flash... If you make it flash, even if you're out in the open, I'm more likely to pick you up instead of the other guy, because not only do you want it, you clearly have balls and will likely be more useful to the team.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2276	Posted - 2014.10.29 22:17:00 - [48] - Quote Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote: KDR is a meta stat. Revive is in game lore. The two are wholey separate. Strongly agree with this. KDR reports on user skill, and if you got beat then all of New Eden needs to know that. Revives is a completely separate issue that affect a shared team-level strategic resource, i.e. # of clones. There is no way these should be confused. Also agree with Rattati on revive-on-request only. Would actually like to see two separate icons: 'Merc Down' and 'Revive Requested'. 'Merc Down' would be a team-wide icon, 'Revive Requested' would be a needler-only icon. Don't like having to put my reticule on a downed target to determine if it's a friendly who has encountered trouble in that location or an enemy who needs to be terminated. PSN: RationalSpark
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2465	Posted - 2014.10.29 22:26:00 - [49] - Quote Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote: Example: You and a red get into a 1v1. He beats you and has earned a K. You have lost and have earned a D. He leaves area and 10 seconds later logibro happens upon you and stabs you. Do you erase that D? Did you really survive that fight? Yes you survived that fight... Your Clone is incapacitated... That does not mean your dead... If that Mercenary really wants to finish you off... Then a couple bullets to the incapacitated clone and your fully dead. Double taping the incapacitated clones should be part of making sure that enemy is truly removed from that area in the battlefield. And should be rewarded for with extra Warpoints. It is done like this in Battlefield for example... But there is little to no lag being picked up and you have a chance to defend yourself... The exchanges that happen as squads struggle to keep each other up and fighting make for truly epic moments in fights. It does this in DUST too and we are penalized for it, not rewarded.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4333	Posted - 2014.10.29 22:49:00 - [50] - Quote CLONE117 wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Agree with the OP. People need to get over themselves and their precious KDR. Plus, now that they give shield HP back too, there's a lot less instakill. What should be done: - Take the needles off of the medic starter fits - Either a "reject" button or return of the "bleedout" button. (eliminates griefing) The default should be to accept revives, imo. You're the selfish one who doesn't want my needle? Hit the button. Everyone else shouldn't have to. Your loss, though, even on my BPO logi I run ADV needles and much less than 10% of the people I revive die before I rep them to full health (minus the occasional blueberry who runs off like an idiot and gets himself killed... not my problem). do not take the the needle of the medic starter fits...unless your planing on giving it a rep tool instead.. That is correct, it should have a rep tool instead. (The godfather of tactical logistics)

Thokk Nightshade KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 627	Posted - 2014.10.29 22:51:00 - [51] - Quote Bethhy wrote: If they picked you up and -1 death, You then have a chance to defend your investment at no cost to yourself. If two logi's go there then both Logi's can pick each other up and force an error from the sniper or give them a chance to defend their isk investment. Giving a simple lazy fix to a Large scale problem such as reviving a clone and it doesn't -1 the death, or make sense in anyway of how you would explain the concept to anyone outside of the game.... Doesn't work. If you have seconds where you are sitting incapacitated you simply can choose a new suit and respawn long before any logistics or needle wearing mercenary will get to you. This is not an issue that needed to be fixed... Not now and not ever. . And while they are doing this, the Sniper has racked up 5-6-7 kills and, if he's in a squad, contributed 250-350 points towards a warbarge. Also, you can complain about people using the kill/revive/kill Farm as a cop out, but there are times when, no matter what you do, you simply do NOT have time to pick a suit and respawn before being picked up. I've had times where I was killed 11 times in a row and then revived before I could respawn. There are people who will q-sync and literally have a friend sit on top of you reviving you with a dirty needle just to be kill farmed. Another possibility, and this happened to me during the Million Clone Challenge. I was in a fight and ran completely out of ammo. It was ambush, so no supply depots, and there were no hives for some weird reason. I was basically no use to the team so I bum rushed a guy and gave him a free kill. Before I could respawn, I had a guy revive me. The guy who killed me got shot, so he couldn't kill me again. I had that happen 3 times in a row where I got myself killed and couldn't respawn because this guy was always right next to me to bring me back. I was of absolutely no use to the team and WANTED to die so I could restock, and I wasn't able to. So I played 4 minutes in an ambush match with no ammo and not able to do anything to help the team. The ONLY WAY I would be willing to agree with you is if there is a 1 time pickup. If a clone is killed, he can be picked up once without request. After the first time, if he dies within "x" seconds, he then must request a revive before being brought back. As for the death/termination, I believe if a death didn't actually count against someone until the clone was terminated, people who care about KDR would be more apt to want to be revived. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1448	Posted - 2014.10.29 23:13:00 - [52] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I think denyrevive is terrible, from all standpoints. Why would a human being ever decline a revive? Correction: we are immortal mercenaries, clone soldiers willing to win at all cost having no regard to our current disposable physical body. Hence the oversized weaponry with lethal overheats, hence the flesh corruptive uplink techology... We even have sort-of minibomb in our brain for suicide-respawn purposes. CCP Rattati wrote: Also, teasing a logi by having him run over, put himself in danger and then refuse is disrespectful. If you want to picked up, you ask for it. Well that is a good point. Making logis run for nothing could hurt the enthusiasm. Originally I was in favour of accept/deny model but now I stand for 'ask for help' -model. People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 9722	Posted - 2014.10.29 23:35:00 - [53] - Quote Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Lots of people here love their KDRs, right? So suppose you don't get a death counted against your KDR until you are terminated? This would have people wanting to be revived because it wouldn't hurt their KDRs. This is a thing I've been asking for for a long time. I understand why you would think this way, but I disagree. If you get put down, you got killed, no two ways about it. Guy who shot you earned a K, you unfortunately earned a D. Just because you can be revived doesn't mean you can un-ring that bell. I agree with this 100% "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Meisterjager Jagermeister Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 390	Posted - 2014.10.29 23:38:00 - [54] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Yes you survived that fight.... OK, one more try. Yes, your clone survived. But you as A PLAYER got BEAT. KDR does NOT measure clone death. IT MEASURES PLAYER LOSS. It is a meta stat. You get put down, you got beat by another player, you get a D. K measures how many times you beat another player. D measures how many times other players beat you. Getting beat means another player reduced your clone to zero hp putting you down for the count. Your dead. Getting revived means another player came along to play mommy for you and bailed your ass out. You may get picked up, save your team a clone, and help push back the enemy; these are all good things. But you can never take back the fact you went down; that the other player got one over on you. Believe me I sympathize with your viewpoint. I often argued to myself when I got picked up that I should be spared the D. That way my KDR would be all fluffy bunny pretty with rainbow stickers on it. But then I realized why try and fool myself, it wouldn't be the truth. Truth is a D is a D. AKA - StarVenger
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4490	Posted - 2014.10.29 23:41:00 - [55] - Quote Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote: Truth is a D is a D. But you AREN'T DEAD. If you aren't terminated, you didn't die. And to the people arguing meta stats, two points: 1. If you're working with logistics and not losing clones because of it, that should represent in your score, but not penalizing your KDR. This is called teamwork, and you should be praised for it. 2. KDR Isn't really a viable metric of player skill anyways. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 9727	Posted - 2014.10.29 23:42:00 - [56] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote: KDR is a meta stat. Revive is in game lore. The two are wholey separate. Strongly agree with this. KDR reports on user skill, and if you got beat then all of New Eden needs to know that. Revives is a completely separate issue that affect a shared team-level strategic resource, i.e. # of clones. There is no way these should be confused. Also agree with Rattati on revive-on-request only. Would actually like to see two separate icons: 'Merc Down' and 'Revive Requested'. 'Merc Down' would be a team-wide icon, 'Revive Requested' would be a needler-only icon. Don't like having to put my reticule on a downed target to determine if it's a friendly who has encountered trouble in that location or an enemy who needs to be terminated. This exactly. The Merc Down is interesting. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Booby Tuesdays Tuesdays With Boobies 915	Posted - 2014.10.29 23:48:00 - [57] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote: KDR is a meta stat. Revive is in game lore. The two are wholey separate. Strongly agree with this. KDR reports on user skill, and if you got beat then all of New Eden needs to know that. Revives is a completely separate issue that affect a shared team-level strategic resource, i.e. # of clones. There is no way these should be confused. Also agree with Rattati on revive-on-request only. Would actually like to see two separate icons: 'Merc Down' and 'Revive Requested'. 'Merc Down' would be a team-wide icon, 'Revive Requested' would be a needler-only icon. Don't like having to put my reticule on a downed target to determine if it's a friendly who has encountered trouble in that location or an enemy who needs to be terminated. This exactly. The Merc Down is interesting. My Spidey "Logi" senses already get overwhelmed with the revive icon at times. I can only imagine the chaos when downed mercs and revive requested icons start popping up. I envision a PC from 2001 running IE with pop ups for days. ( . )( . )
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6831	Posted - 2014.10.29 23:53:00 - [58] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Lots of people here love their KDRs, right? So suppose you don't get a death counted against your KDR until you are terminated? This would have people wanting to be revived because it wouldn't hurt their KDRs. This is a thing I've been asking for for a long time. I understand why you would think this way, but I disagree. If you get put down, you got killed, no two ways about it. Guy who shot you earned a K, you unfortunately earned a D. Just because you can be revived doesn't mean you can un-ring that bell. I agree with this 100% I still want an additional 5-10 WP for 'securing' a kill. I.E: Walking up to their downed body and terminating their clone. Important Links: An Argument for Legion Transparency
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1448	Posted - 2014.10.30 00:23:00 - [59] - Quote Declaring my stance on K vs D: When you get that +50 kill, you earn it and down him. The person killed gets downed. If he is picked up by needle, what happens? Should the killer lose his kill? No. If you were downed, you 'earn' a down. People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 412	Posted - 2014.10.30 00:57:00 - [60] - Quote The only problem is that death is not synonymous of incapacitated. - I'm not a doctor, but in real life time of death is measured after resuscitation. - It is as obvious as unintentional injuries in some road accidents, switching to accidental killing when patient die in hospital. If you think that the incapacitate someone is tantamount to killing him, well you might as well say that people in a coma are dead.. witch is irrational. I understand that CCP may be afraid that some player may not accept things as they are, but somehow community manage to accept that they are being rewarded for hacking null cannon after 'hack' process is completed - and it is almost the same with incapacitating and killing. Gallente Speed Scout. EVE side of me: Nosum Hseebnrido

DDx77 Kinsho Swords Caldari State 15	Posted - 2014.10.30 01:01:00 - [61] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: I definitely would prefer an accept/reject revive button, as I've said many times. Though this is better than doing nothing. The way nanite injectors previously worked is arguably a form of abusive gameplay, because it allowed other players to effectively take control of your character. I think denyrevive is terrible, from all standpoints. Why would a human being ever decline a revive? Also, teasing a logi by having him run over, put himself in danger and then refuse is disrespectful. If you want to picked up, you ask for it. --- Any possibility that the revive icon could be red and if they want a pickup it becomes green? I agree with your points about putting the player in danger for potentially no reason but if I know someone was just killed in the area I could still head in their general direction/ disengage at my discretion if they choose to respawn
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 193	Posted - 2014.10.30 01:14:00 - [62] - Quote You could always buff the basic needles and instead of advanced and pro granting just more life they could grant a temporary speed boost. This would allow basic revivies enough life to get to cover(hopfully) and the others even more. I have not finished reading the thread and have not read the changes at hand I will continue once finished. The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Wizard Talk
The Master Race Immortal Guides 195	Posted - 2014.10.30 01:14:00 - [63] - Quote You could always buff the basic needles and instead of advanced and pro granting just more life they could grant a temporary speed boost. This would allow basic revivies enough life to get to cover(hopfully) and the others even more. Like a epee pen? adrenaline makes you super strong and fast. The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Wizard Talk
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2466	Posted - 2014.10.30 01:41:00 - [64] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Lots of people here love their KDRs, right? So suppose you don't get a death counted against your KDR until you are terminated? This would have people wanting to be revived because it wouldn't hurt their KDRs. This is a thing I've been asking for for a long time. I understand why you would think this way, but I disagree. If you get put down, you got killed, no two ways about it. Guy who shot you earned a K, you unfortunately earned a D. Just because you can be revived doesn't mean you can un-ring that bell. I agree with this 100% A Kill is a Kill. But If you aren't dead and merely Incapacitated you didn't die. It doesn't matter what imaginary bell that has been conjured up in peoples head that makes them feel the victor. If you don;t finish off your opponent they can get up and have a go again. This is done in many games where meta stats actually mean things. From competition leagues to weekly physical prizes. Dust the stat is just for fun and often doesn't represent much. Day Z even has an unconscious mode you can beat people into. If your clone survived and you are able to be picked up... You never died.... until you have lost your clone. That is pure and simple fact. Anything about the puffed up chest nature of "You got put down son" and deserve a stat loss has nothing to do with how DUST has explained how clones work... The entire concept around an immortal clone solider... And if you even attempted to explain how logically it makes sense that they died even though they never truly died... To ANYONE outside of the game while trying to explain how DUST works?..... They would give you a weird face and think your being silly, or worse :p A Death is a Death, In DUST that means a vastly different thing then being incapacitated. Battlefield franchise does this just the same... You get revived and -1 death.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 9734	Posted - 2014.10.30 02:16:00 - [65] - Quote Bethhy wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Lots of people here love their KDRs, right? So suppose you don't get a death counted against your KDR until you are terminated? This would have people wanting to be revived because it wouldn't hurt their KDRs. This is a thing I've been asking for for a long time. I understand why you would think this way, but I disagree. If you get put down, you got killed, no two ways about it. Guy who shot you earned a K, you unfortunately earned a D. Just because you can be revived doesn't mean you can un-ring that bell. I agree with this 100% A Kill is a Kill. But If you aren't dead and merely Incapacitated you didn't die. It doesn't matter what imaginary bell that has been conjured up in peoples head that makes them feel the victor. If you don;t finish off your opponent they can get up and have a go again. This is done in many games where meta stats actually mean things. From competition leagues to weekly physical prizes. Dust the stat is just for fun and often doesn't represent much. Day Z even has an unconscious mode you can beat people into. If your clone survived and you are able to be picked up... You never died.... until you have lost your clone. That is pure and simple fact. Anything about the puffed up chest nature of "You got put down son" and deserve a stat loss has nothing to do with how DUST has explained how clones work... The entire concept around an immortal clone solider... And if you even attempted to explain how logically it makes sense that they died even though they never truly died... To ANYONE outside of the game while trying to explain how DUST works?..... They would give you a weird face and think your being silly, or worse :p A Death is a Death, In DUST that means a vastly different thing then being incapacitated. Battlefield franchise does this just the same... You get revived and -1 death. If you don't care about the D, then why the argument. It seems that the core concept in EVE is ISK, death matters. If you are revived, you don't lose the ISK. That is the key thing many strive for and fits perfectly with the lore aspect. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13943	Posted - 2014.10.30 02:22:00 - [66] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: If you don't care about the D, then why the argument. It seems that the core concept in EVE is ISK, death matters. If you are revived, you don't lose the ISK. That is the key thing many strive for and fits perfectly with the lore aspect. My most sincerely apologies CCP Rattati....but...... what lore? Most players don't even understand the core processes/ what happens to their clones beyond "EYE IZ UNMORTAL". I think the argument is more the "denote the statistic when I actually die" in the sense that the clone is terminated not reduced to a sizzling pipe of biomass.....which for all intents and purposes is a valid argument, however I understand this from an EVE persepctive as well. I lose a ship and I haven't died....but the loss is recorded and put on display. In the end, if we want to talk lore, what most people have to realise is that combat clones have a very short life span of operation as established by CCP lore and most are reduced to biomass for reuse after a battle anyway. GÇ£How does this all work then?GÇ¥ GÇ£Like so Choirboy.GÇ¥ Mila to Kador, Sub Zero Club, Shoashu Sasaanko
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 284	Posted - 2014.10.30 02:35:00 - [67] - Quote If a needle prevented you from getting a death on your K/DR score I bet a LOT of people would be running needles.... ;P
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2466	Posted - 2014.10.30 02:40:00 - [68] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Bethhy wrote: A Kill is a Kill. But If you aren't dead and merely Incapacitated you didn't die. It doesn't matter what imaginary bell that has been conjured up in peoples head that makes them feel the victor. If you don;t finish off your opponent they can get up and have a go again. This is done in many games where meta stats actually mean things. From competition leagues to weekly physical prizes. Dust the stat is just for fun and often doesn't represent much. Day Z even has an unconscious mode you can beat people into. If your clone survived and you are able to be picked up... You never died.... until you have lost your clone. That is pure and simple fact. Anything about the puffed up chest nature of "You got put down son" and deserve a stat loss has nothing to do with how DUST has explained how clones work... The entire concept around an immortal clone solider... And if you even attempted to explain how logically it makes sense that they died even though they never truly died... To ANYONE outside of the game while trying to explain how DUST works?..... They would give you a weird face and think your being silly, or worse :p A Death is a Death, In DUST that means a vastly different thing then being incapacitated. Battlefield franchise does this just the same... You get revived and -1 death. If you don't care about the D, then why the argument. It seems that the core concept in EVE is ISK, death matters. If you are revived, you don't lose the ISK. That is the key thing many strive for and fits perfectly with the lore aspect. CCP has tried this for 2 years and some change now.... How often are needles even used in PC as a viable tactic? Score matters even less in PC as long as you win? We have to remind people in PC of them and to make fits with them and to wait for a pick up before respawning. People invest ISK to increase their KDR... What other personal purpose is there to invest isk in a better fit? To increase your results? that's the whole of it. What purpose is there for the average mercenary that spends their ISK to increase their personal results in a game and then throw that investment away on potentially several deaths or even 1 extra death (Specially when you never truly died) On a chance to save the ISK for one suit. The Death isn't worth the investment for the average DUST player. and will never be. This is the flaw. This is a well known fact and shapes the entire landscape of DUST and the gameplay around needles Since Chromosome when needle use was actually viable. The Lore and the entire logic around your consciousness getting tranferred only when your clone officially gets terminated is the entire basis around explaining the NEED for you to buy a new set of gear each time you consciousness gets transferred into a new clone. The entire basis around even spending ISK is based around the core fact of loosing a clone, If that clone isn't terminated... It never died.... 1+1 = 2. It doesn't matter what small feat goes through the users mind with incapacitating a Clone soldier, It matters more if they finish off their kill in the end rather than incapacitating the enemy. This is adding to DUST, It creates entire gameplay around finishing off downed opponents, Entire tactics around it, Mercenaries from all walks of life a renewed vigor to fight for their ISK investment without being penalized for another death they never truly had. It will make needles important in DUST instead of stigmatized like they currently even are being in this discussion. Needles and the average mercenaries distaste for them is a product of how they work and have worked for two years.. And it's sad... Because they are part of what makes DUST special.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2277	Posted - 2014.10.30 02:50:00 - [69] - Quote Booby Tuesdays wrote: My Spidey "Logi" senses already get overwhelmed with the revive icon at times. I can only imagine the chaos when downed mercs and revive requested icons start popping up. I envision a PC from 2001 running IE with pop ups for days. Agree about the clutter on the HUD, would have to be something subtle, maybe not even an icon. Just a way to tell at a glance which body was friend or foe. Aeon Amadi wrote: ... I still want an additional 5-10 WP for 'securing' a kill. I.E: Walking up to their downed body and terminating their clone. Agree with Aeon and Bethy that double tapping is worth something WP-wise. The action has significant tactical value and often require the player to put themselves at risk to terminate the clone. PSN: RationalSpark
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 193	Posted - 2014.10.30 02:53:00 - [70] - Quote Downed clone hitboxes are op! The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Wizard Talk

The Master Race Immortal Guides 195	Posted - 2014.10.30 02:53:00 - [71] - Quote Downed clone hitboxes are op! The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Wizard Talk
CoochMaster Flex Contract Hunters 18	Posted - 2014.10.30 03:05:00 - [72] - Quote This is going to be off topic Cuz a few people caught my attention. To all the chumps who care about their K/D, GET BETTER DUDE! Live with the death you got. Don't you understand K/D means nothing in Dust? You ain't impressing no one. You want to impress? Bring that W/L up, that's all the bragging rights in Dust. Maybe the games would be more balanced if those few "slayers" would actually hack a letter. Eff you and your K/D and take your asses back to CoD. This is Dust 514 buds. CONHU still lives on.
Doshneil Antaro Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 287	Posted - 2014.10.30 03:09:00 - [73] - Quote I think no matter what side of the fence you are on, in this argument we need to look outside of the box and see what harm the purposed "fix" brings about. No fix is worth making if it causes more issues. Perhaps both sides are wrong, but we do agree a change needs to be made that furthers the progression of the game. The harmed caused in this fix greatly influences what the logi bros choose to use in their load outs. take away the needle and we will spend more time shooting. The more we shoot the better we kill. If Im killing better than other suits, then why rep them. Uplink, rep hives, ammo, and scans, but they are not for you, they are to better the slayer logi role (that they were forced into) because of the purposed fix. Sage /thread
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 193	Posted - 2014.10.30 03:21:00 - [74] - Quote Lol could someone explain the fix please you guys are so vague not one explanation in 4 pages. The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Wizard Talk
The Master Race Immortal Guides 195	Posted - 2014.10.30 03:21:00 - [75] - Quote Lol could someone explain the fix please you guys are so vague not one explanation in 4 pages. The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Wizard Talk
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6836	Posted - 2014.10.30 03:33:00 - [76] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: If you don't care about the D, then why the argument. It seems that the core concept in EVE is ISK, death matters. If you are revived, you don't lose the ISK. That is the key thing many strive for and fits perfectly with the lore aspect. I agree with Bethhy in a sense. Mostly because while it is an arbitrary stat value to the general playerbase, it goes to show something to the player's stats and how they personally perceive themselves. Just today I went a match where I went 12/12 and three of those deaths were immediately after being revived. While I value -being- revived, I certainly don't like it being a permanent mark on my record when I never -actually- died. KDR might be an arbitrary stat but you also have to consider it from a larger logistical view: Back in ANONYMOUS we reimbursed players who couldn't cover their losses (sometimes) and if a player came up to me saying he died 16 times... I would reimburse him the cost of 16 suits. But how many times was he revived in that period? Best guess, could have been revived as many as 5 times. That's unnecessary expenditure on a corporate level. On the other hand, from a personal level, if I was playing Logistics and did a -damn- good job of reviving my team; a player might look at their killboard and see... We'll say 5/10. Obviously, he and everyone else around him is thinking, "Oh wow, that dude got chewed up." When in reality he only died two or three times. It's a psychological aspect and I wholly agree that until your clone is terminated (dead) it shouldn't be marked against you if only because, in the end, it's a permanent mark that never goes away of a bad situation that might not have been entirely in your control (revived by a militia injector in the middle of a firefight). Sure, that might not be -so bad- whenever injectors only work on people who request a revive but you never know what's going on around when you're on the ground bleeding out. You could -think- it's clear and request the revive only to get sniped. That aside, it should still count as a kill for the person who put you down. Albeit (I'll repeat it!) they should get -more- reward and be further encouraged to -CONFIRM- that kill by terminating the clone. I do it all the time because I don't want that dude getting back up -ever-. EDIT: Another good consideration: If I request a revive when the area is clear and it takes the dude fifteen seconds to run over to revive me..? Fifteen seconds is a -long- time in an FPS and if there is no way to back out of that request without cloning myself (putting the Logi at harm as well) then it's adding up to the same scenario that you mentioned earlier. Important Links: An Argument for Legion Transparency
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1656	Posted - 2014.10.30 03:36:00 - [77] - Quote Please stop being lazy, you guys sound like a bunch of horny sorority chicks here talking about the D... If you find an issue and I stumble upon your thread, I will do my darnedest to get the issue known. Also, Raptors...
MrShooter01 Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 939	Posted - 2014.10.30 04:00:00 - [78] - Quote In planetside 2, getting incapacitated won't count as a death on your character sheet if you get revived by a medic The guy who shot you will still get a "kill" and all the xp/points/etc that entails, you will still have a record of your "death" on your killboard, but the number of deaths on your character sheet will not go up and your kdr will not be affected until you are killed by an enemy and don't get revived quick enough/respawn. just throwing that out there
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4501	Posted - 2014.10.30 04:01:00 - [79] - Quote There's huge strategic gameplay advantages to ensuring being picked up does not count against you as a death. The primary one, is even KDR-obsessed folks will have a direct reason to work with logistics players, and hence, it will even encourage solo slayers to act as a team. It rewards team play. The fact that it only makes common sense, that not dying doesn't count against you as a death, is icing on the cake. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Apocalyptic Destroyer KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 206	Posted - 2014.10.30 04:05:00 - [80] - Quote Bethhy wrote: If every Dust player now has to hit a button to even get picked up or to even have the option to get picked up all of DUST will suffer. Your Clone doesn't technically belong to you... It belongs to the team as a whole. When your clone gets picked up off the floor, You didn't loose a clone... therefore your deaths should be -1. When Mercenaries are no longer pressing a revive button there will be no point in ever fitting a Nanite Injector. Making The "Needle" Obsolete in the game of DUST. This will hurt the Logi class, Teamwork, Immersion, tactics, gameplay... And clutch games that come down to clone counts(Skirm,Dom). It screaaaams of it being a giant LAZY fix for an issue we have had since Beta..... Please.... Pleaseee..... Figure out another option. This fix I fear will do more harm to the whole of the game to help an individual feel better about their K/D. Its crazy. You sound like the type of guy.... that would go around sticking people with a militia needle... \\CPM's Are Forum Warriors// Pain is weakness leaving the body. You Underestimate Me, ADS, Tanker, Heavy, Scout

Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6837	Posted - 2014.10.30 04:10:00 - [81] - Quote Apocalyptic Destroyer wrote: Bethhy wrote: If every Dust player now has to hit a button to even get picked up or to even have the option to get picked up all of DUST will suffer. Your Clone doesn't technically belong to you... It belongs to the team as a whole. When your clone gets picked up off the floor, You didn't loose a clone... therefore your deaths should be -1. When Mercenaries are no longer pressing a revive button there will be no point in ever fitting a Nanite Injector. Making The "Needle" Obsolete in the game of DUST. This will hurt the Logi class, Teamwork, Immersion, tactics, gameplay... And clutch games that come down to clone counts(Skirm,Dom). It screaaaams of it being a giant LAZY fix for an issue we have had since Beta..... Please.... Pleaseee..... Figure out another option. This fix I fear will do more harm to the whole of the game to help an individual feel better about their K/D. Its crazy. You sound like the type of guy.... that would go around sticking people with a militia needle... Reminds me of the story of that dude running around with a militia injector and a wiyrkomi injector and was singling out the guys he hated. Important Links: An Argument for Legion Transparency
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2470	Posted - 2014.10.30 12:36:00 - [82] - Quote Apocalyptic Destroyer wrote: Bethhy wrote: If every Dust player now has to hit a button to even get picked up or to even have the option to get picked up all of DUST will suffer. Your Clone doesn't technically belong to you... It belongs to the team as a whole. When your clone gets picked up off the floor, You didn't loose a clone... therefore your deaths should be -1. When Mercenaries are no longer pressing a revive button there will be no point in ever fitting a Nanite Injector. Making The "Needle" Obsolete in the game of DUST. This will hurt the Logi class, Teamwork, Immersion, tactics, gameplay... And clutch games that come down to clone counts(Skirm,Dom). It screaaaams of it being a giant LAZY fix for an issue we have had since Beta..... Please.... Pleaseee..... Figure out another option. This fix I fear will do more harm to the whole of the game to help an individual feel better about their K/D. Its crazy. You sound like the type of guy.... that would go around sticking people with a militia needle... More glorious Triage points Drools THis game play of someone running around with Militia Nanite injector.. And no one wanting a res from them is a product of how Needles have worked for two years, Needles have been stigmatized because of the way they operate. That Militia Nanite injector new player that is gathering war points the best way they know how would be HELPFUL and a legitimate form of advancing through DUST that helps the entire team. Instead that player becomes hated and the entire action of being picked up becomes resented. Needles should be a positive for all aspects of gaming.... Not a consistent negative experience for nearly every mercenary who has played DUST,
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5126	Posted - 2014.10.30 12:48:00 - [83] - Quote Bethhy wrote: If every Dust player now has to hit a button to even get picked up or to even have the option to get picked up all of DUST will suffer. Your Clone doesn't technically belong to you... It belongs to the team as a whole. When your clone gets picked up off the floor, You didn't loose a clone... therefore your deaths should be -1. When Mercenaries are no longer pressing a revive button there will be no point in ever fitting a Nanite Injector. Making The "Needle" Obsolete in the game of DUST. This will hurt the Logi class, Teamwork, Immersion, tactics, gameplay... And clutch games that come down to clone counts(Skirm,Dom). It screaaaams of it being a giant LAZY fix for an issue we have had since Beta..... Please.... Pleaseee..... Figure out another option. This fix I fear will do more harm to the whole of the game to help an individual feel better about their K/D. Its crazy. The -1 death approach to KD and the needle is much better. Hopefully this can happen. I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2211	Posted - 2014.10.30 13:37:00 - [84] - Quote Making a big fuss out of nothing. I guarantee this applies to most of us. Screaming 'pick me up logi' when you are downed in a battle and you see a logi is within 30m. Screaming ' f you logi' when you get picked up in front of enemy fire. Its a lose lose situation. Injector has been irrelevant / a mere tool to farm WP for a long time. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Racro 01 Arifistan 501st Knights of Leanbox 440	Posted - 2014.10.30 15:31:00 - [85] - Quote the only problem I have with is it will stop me from tourting idiotic blueberrys in factional. blueberry kills squad member for no reason, I shotgun blueberry to death, pick him up, shotgun, pick him up, shotgun, pick him up and so on. other than that iam all for this mechanic *Elite Gallenten Soldier*
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4350	Posted - 2014.10.30 20:40:00 - [86] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Making a big fuss out of nothing. I guarantee this applies to most of us. Screaming 'pick me up logi' when you are downed in a battle and you see a logi is within 30m. Screaming ' f you logi' when you get picked up in front of enemy fire. Its a lose lose situation. Injector has been irrelevant / a mere tool to farm WP for a long time. That's a bit of an exaggeration. In a good night of FW I make at least 2-3 successful pickups a game. Running wiyrkomi's and having my rep tool ready (and not being stupid) most nights not a single person gets taken down right away. In FW that's a big deal because it's a major ISK sink otherwise. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
CLONE117 True Pros Forever 850	Posted - 2014.10.30 21:09:00 - [87] - Quote heres a fix for kdr... https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=179145&find=unread pve for dust 514. so what? u killed me twice with proto?. i killed you once with my mlt fit. that takes more skill.
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 414	Posted - 2014.10.31 01:34:00 - [88] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: If you don't care about the D, then why the argument. It seems that the core concept in EVE is ISK, death matters. If you are revived, you don't lose the ISK. That is the key thing many strive for and fits perfectly with the lore aspect. So if I were revived, and I did not lose any ISK(that is core concept of EVE, because death matters) - why it count in my statistic as death? If we would speaking just about EVE it would sounds very easy: In EVE when I destroy someones ship, it can not be revived so ISK that was used can not be recovered - 'EVE is ISK, death matters', people loses ISK on each time they ship blow apart, someones poddead them, or they forget to upgrade they medical clone and die(this one is hard but eventually character will lose on price). Whats more in destroying someones ship, 'killing' is appropriate term despite the fact that we actually destroyed just an object that was packaging man in the pod, because there was hundreds of people that were working on that ship; if we will involve lore aspects of the game in to that. Problem is that someone tried to copy same terminology to Dust instead of creating new one. Gallente Speed Scout. EVE side of me: Nosum Hseebnrido
SirManBoy Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 669	Posted - 2014.10.31 01:55:00 - [89] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: I definitely would prefer an accept/reject revive button, as I've said many times. Though this is better than doing nothing. The way nanite injectors previously worked is arguably a form of abusive gameplay, because it allowed other players to effectively take control of your character. I think denyrevive is terrible, from all standpoints. Why would a human being ever decline a revive? Also, teasing a logi by having him run over, put himself in danger and then refuse is disrespectful. If you want to picked up, you ask for it. I love this change. Sure, there will be a small drop in the number of revive opportunities, but those who do request help will be fully committed to the process. In my opinion, this is an extremely fair resolution.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2473	Posted - 2014.10.31 05:17:00 - [90] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: I definitely would prefer an accept/reject revive button, as I've said many times. Though this is better than doing nothing. The way nanite injectors previously worked is arguably a form of abusive gameplay, because it allowed other players to effectively take control of your character. I think denyrevive is terrible, from all standpoints. Why would a human being ever decline a revive? Also, teasing a logi by having him run over, put himself in danger and then refuse is disrespectful. If you want to picked up, you ask for it. I love this change. Sure, there will be a small drop in the number of revive opportunities, but those who do request help will be fully committed to the process. In my opinion, this is an extremely fair resolution. This is extremely short sighted. When the only use a needle has in everyday DUST is if a player that goes down presses a button then patiently waits? revive opportunities won't just be a "Small drop" There will be literally no reason to run a needle on the average mercenary suit with these changes... Logically it will make no sense for anyone that isn't in direct communication or can only fit this one item... After a while it will just be an item that no one fits.... It already is nearly there. Adverse to if it was -1 death.... It would do nothing but add to the game and make needles a legitimate form of gameplay that benefits everyone that plays DUST. And has the added benefit that it actually makes sense.

DarthPlagueis TheWise 187	Posted - 2014.10.31 06:25:00 - [91] - Quote You should only run a proto needle when you're coordinating with your squad in the first place. In a PC match, when your FC tells you to conserve clones, you bet your goddamn bottom dollar they'll be using the Call for Help button. A smart team will realize the value of needles now that there's a shield boost upon revive. However. There should be an option, like the new scanner one where you can toggle between squad and team, to toggle whether or not you want to automatically be able to be revived. That way people who care more about teamwork than their KDR can opt in. For example, I tend to press the respawn button way too quickly without thinking things through, and in many of those cases a friendly Logi could've actually saved my clone. Either way, all the new call for help means is that lower meta needles will be discouraged, which is a good thing IMO. Dust? No, this is AUR514 now.
Doshneil Antaro Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 288	Posted - 2014.10.31 06:48:00 - [92] - Quote Bethhy wrote: SirManBoy wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: I definitely would prefer an accept/reject revive button, as I've said many times. Though this is better than doing nothing. The way nanite injectors previously worked is arguably a form of abusive gameplay, because it allowed other players to effectively take control of your character. I think denyrevive is terrible, from all standpoints. Why would a human being ever decline a revive? Also, teasing a logi by having him run over, put himself in danger and then refuse is disrespectful. If you want to picked up, you ask for it. I love this change. Sure, there will be a small drop in the number of revive opportunities, but those who do request help will be fully committed to the process. In my opinion, this is an extremely fair resolution. This is extremely short sighted. When the only use a needle has in everyday DUST is if a player that goes down presses a button then patiently waits? revive opportunities won't just be a "Small drop" There will be literally no reason to run a needle on the average mercenary suit with these changes... Logically it will make no sense for anyone that isn't in direct communication or can only fit this one item... After a while it will just be an item that no one fits.... It already is nearly there. Adverse to if it was -1 death.... It would do nothing but add to the game and make needles a legitimate form of gameplay that benefits everyone that plays DUST. And has the added benefit that it actually makes sense. +1 for the -1. Though between legion's announcement and being told Dust's cake was a lie, I took a healthy break, Ive played since pre-chromosone. Almost exclusively as a medic logi. I was reviving folks even in corp battles for no wp. This change will for the first time remove the needle from my hands. Don't get it wrong, it is the communities lose, my gain. Dual scans, dual hives, and dusted off my MD. I adapt and over come. My new role is situational awareness and wp's from killing and scanning cloak choked scouties. Now don't complain when majority of logistics does the same. Logis have faced more crap in dust even than the scout, yet we adapt better than the two gun scrubs. If you want reps, better find my Wyokomi hive. Needle and rep gun are too closely linked and making one obsolete makes the other less necessary. Sage /thread
Kaeru Nayiri Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 129	Posted - 2014.10.31 18:35:00 - [93] - Quote CELESTA AUNGM wrote: [..] I prefer GÇ£Revive-MeGÇ¥ to be automatically ON all the time, but that the incapacitated player have a brief chance to turn off that blinking icon before GÇ£medicsGÇ¥ even see her as needing assistance. this
Flint Beastgood III Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 634	Posted - 2014.10.31 23:20:00 - [94] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: I definitely would prefer an accept/reject revive button, as I've said many times. Though this is better than doing nothing. The way nanite injectors previously worked is arguably a form of abusive gameplay, because it allowed other players to effectively take control of your character. I think denyrevive is terrible, from all standpoints. Why would a human being ever decline a revive? Also, teasing a logi by having him run over, put himself in danger and then refuse is disrespectful. If you want to picked up, you ask for it. Indeed. Yep
Baal Omniscient Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2069	Posted - 2014.10.31 23:36:00 - [95] - Quote The main reason the Chromosome revive was so much better, apart from the absence of the death screen (which, IMHO, shouldn't show unless your clone bleeds out) was the POWER SLIDE. If you remember it, you know what I mean. Bring back the power slide, that will help enormously. Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0 I GÖú Puppies (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.*pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
Z3dog BIG BAD W0LVES 12	Posted - 2014.11.02 15:19:00 - [96] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: I definitely would prefer an accept/reject revive button, as I've said many times. Though this is better than doing nothing. The way nanite injectors previously worked is arguably a form of abusive gameplay, because it allowed other players to effectively take control of your character. I think denyrevive is terrible, from all standpoints. Why would a human being ever decline a revive? Also, teasing a logi by having him run over, put himself in danger and then refuse is disrespectful. lol this already happens A LOT. Dust 5/14
Kensai Dragon Dust University Ivy League 35	Posted - 2014.11.02 16:35:00 - [97] - Quote Just need to implement a max number of revives. Say, maximum 3 revives per clone. Or 1 revive. Seriously, if the guy picking you up is new, trying to pay his friends kdr, or just hungry for WP, and picking you up in front of fire then wouldn't we all prefer to respawn somewhere else? Limit the number of revives per clone, problem solved.
maluble Art.of.Death VP Gaming Alliance 144	Posted - 2014.11.02 17:51:00 - [98] - Quote Bethhy wrote: If every Dust player now has to hit a button to even get picked up or to even have the option to get picked up all of DUST will suffer. Your Clone doesn't technically belong to you... It belongs to the team as a whole. When your clone gets picked up off the floor, You didn't loose a clone... therefore your deaths should be -1. When Mercenaries are no longer pressing a revive button there will be no point in ever fitting a Nanite Injector. Making The "Needle" Obsolete in the game of DUST. This will hurt the Logi class, Teamwork, Immersion, tactics, gameplay... And clutch games that come down to clone counts(Skirm,Dom). It screaaaams of it being a giant LAZY fix for an issue we have had since Beta..... Please.... Pleaseee..... Figure out another option. This fix I fear will do more harm to the whole of the game to help an individual feel better about their K/D. Its crazy. No whats crazy is a greedy pos logi who contines to pick someone up over and over and over and over and over just to be picked off immediately. Thats just cray cray especially cause you only get points for the first revive. This fix is long time overdue logi's should have enough situational awareness to know where the shooter is that took your teamate down and either eliminate or supress said target before attempting revive. Sorry for you good logis but the plethera of ****** ones ruined it for you.
maluble Art.of.Death VP Gaming Alliance 144	Posted - 2014.11.02 17:57:00 - [99] - Quote Bethhy wrote: If every Dust player now has to hit a button to even get picked up or to even have the option to get picked up all of DUST will suffer. Your Clone doesn't technically belong to you... It belongs to the team as a whole. When your clone gets picked up off the floor, You didn't loose a clone... therefore your deaths should be -1. When Mercenaries are no longer pressing a revive button there will be no point in ever fitting a Nanite Injector. Making The "Needle" Obsolete in the game of DUST. This will hurt the Logi class, Teamwork, Immersion, tactics, gameplay... And clutch games that come down to clone counts(Skirm,Dom). It screaaaams of it being a giant LAZY fix for an issue we have had since Beta..... Please.... Pleaseee..... Figure out another option. This fix I fear will do more harm to the whole of the game to help an individual feel better about their K/D. Its crazy. What about all the isk your logi class (not you personally) has xost me over the years just for 60 wp. If you guys would kill the threat first you would get another 50 wp .
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1955	Posted - 2014.11.02 18:06:00 - [100] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: I definitely would prefer an accept/reject revive button, as I've said many times. Though this is better than doing nothing. The way nanite injectors previously worked is arguably a form of abusive gameplay, because it allowed other players to effectively take control of your character. I think denyrevive is terrible, from all standpoints. Why would a human being ever decline a revive? Also, teasing a logi by having him run over, put himself in danger and then refuse is disrespectful. If you want to picked up, you ask for it. I love this change. Sure, there will be a small drop in the number of revive opportunities, but those who do request help will be fully committed to the process. In my opinion, this is an extremely fair resolution. I concur. This is a great change in my eyes.

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5142	Posted - 2014.11.02 18:18:00 - [101] - Quote People that hate needles say a lot about their overall view of teamwork. 100% needles with a squad plus of your own peeps is OP. I'll take a revive around a contested objective 100% of the time. Even if the enemy waits to shoot me after my revive, they aren't shooting my teammates that are doing work at the objective. I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3676	Posted - 2014.11.02 18:27:00 - [102] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: People that hate needles say a lot about their overall view of teamwork. 100% needles with a squad plus of your own peeps is OP. I'll take a revive around a contested objective 100% of the time. Even if the enemy waits to shoot me after my revive, they aren't shooting my teammates that are doing work at the objective. ^This. The change will essentially "buff teamwork." As fewer and fewer mercs call for revives due to a erroneous fascination with KDR/epeen the merc who are focused on the win and even more so those who are actively in squads will hold a larger mechanical advantage than they already do. The net effect of this change is that a coordinated squad (and to a much lessor extent even a team oriented solo player) will hold more effective value on the field than they do at present. My advice is to squad quickly, squad often, and squad with folks who understand teamwork and that includes the tactical value of being revived. Those who do not are likely to face consistently harder matches in the days to come. 0.02 ISK Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4403	Posted - 2014.11.02 20:31:00 - [103] - Quote maluble wrote: Bethhy wrote: If every Dust player now has to hit a button to even get picked up or to even have the option to get picked up all of DUST will suffer. Your Clone doesn't technically belong to you... It belongs to the team as a whole. When your clone gets picked up off the floor, You didn't loose a clone... therefore your deaths should be -1. When Mercenaries are no longer pressing a revive button there will be no point in ever fitting a Nanite Injector. Making The "Needle" Obsolete in the game of DUST. This will hurt the Logi class, Teamwork, Immersion, tactics, gameplay... And clutch games that come down to clone counts(Skirm,Dom). It screaaaams of it being a giant LAZY fix for an issue we have had since Beta..... Please.... Pleaseee..... Figure out another option. This fix I fear will do more harm to the whole of the game to help an individual feel better about their K/D. Its crazy. What about all the isk your logi class (not you personally) has xost me over the years just for 60 wp. If you guys would kill the threat first you would get another 50 wp . You don't lose any ISK, FFS! Seriously, try understanding how somethinks works before whining about it! (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Finn Colman Immortal Guides 48	Posted - 2014.11.02 21:37:00 - [104] - Quote My take on the KDR aspect of this topic: 1st: I've heard time and time again how KDR is a very poor measure of player skill in DUST. Perhaps they should have "D" stand for downs, add "T" for terminations (that is, when you have been terminated), and "K" will remain as kills. If the downs-count-as-kills thing annoys people it would be as easy as adding "I" for incapacitation, and leave "K" to only meaning the clones that someone has fully eliminated from a battle. Honestly, is it that hard to think of such a simple solution to appease those who care about their KDR (or possibly in this case, KTR/ ITR/ IDR). The little Min with the little voice.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3681	Posted - 2014.11.02 22:15:00 - [105] - Quote /a bit off topic Regarding KDR Cross Atu wrote: As I have said more times than I've bothered to count 'kdr' is a bad stat and it should feel bad. It is vague, is it misleading and it is a rather poor measurement to be tracking and displaying at the end of every match. {sic} Leaderboard rankings and general assessments should be derived from effectively playing ones role and contributing meaningfully to the win, not on some ePeen enctric stat like KDR. A scout deploying uplinks and providing intel for his team who doesn't get a kill is doing a good job and is valuable A logi who dies multiple times providing close support to his squad without a kill is doing a good job and is valuable An AV guy who dies multiple times with few or no kills but destroys or suppresses enemy vehicles is doing a good job and is valuable A DS pilot who spends the whole match deploying people and providing scans without a single is doing a good job and is valuable A merc who avoids contact and hacks points/installations to keep the board "blue" without a single is doing a good job and is valuable Conversely a merc who spends the whole match kill chasing, or kill stealing, while ignoring where his team is, what is happening with the objectives, etc. is not meaningfully contributing to the win and isn't of much tactical worth. Is killing the enemy relevant? Sure. Should one do it? Of course. Should it be featured and given such inferred wight as it is? Absolutely not. 0.02 ISK Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2476	Posted - 2014.11.03 04:43:00 - [106] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: People that hate needles say a lot about their overall view of teamwork. 100% needles with a squad plus of your own peeps is OP. I'll take a revive around a contested objective 100% of the time. Even if the enemy waits to shoot me after my revive, they aren't shooting my teammates that are doing work at the objective. ^This. The change will essentially "buff teamwork." As fewer and fewer mercs call for revives due to a erroneous fascination with KDR/epeen the merc who are focused on the win and even more so those who are actively in squads will hold a larger mechanical advantage than they already do. The net effect of this change is that a coordinated squad (and to a much lessor extent even a team oriented solo player) will hold more effective value on the field than they do at present. My advice is to squad quickly, squad often, and squad with folks who understand teamwork and that includes the tactical value of being revived. Those who do not are likely to face consistently harder matches in the days to come. 0.02 ISK Cross So your advice is to basically only have a squad if you want needles to be relevant at all... Or pray that someone will fit a needle when you decide to push a button then patiently wait? Like seriously? This does nothing but nerf needles into the ground because the mechanics around the item was setup to abuse players who got picked up because "They have a chance to defend their isk" yet die again regardless of no clone loss. Lets put aside the fact that this fix makes absolutely no sense. Makes even less sense as you try to explain DUST and how it works to your friend who hasn't played it.... As they look at your weird as you try and profess how much sense it makes. It doesn't matter what imaginary world the CSM are living in.... The Squad mechanics in DUST for the average mercenary are terrible... Squad finder is like a joke played on the playerbase... The average DUST player will have no hope AT ALL at using these new needle mechanics that are purposed.... It will be something used be veteran players at best and require more communication and team work then is currently exhibited even in the Height of PC... With the largest longest wars in DUST's history with arguably the best FC's and mercs that have played this game. Remember i have been part of PC since it started, have been part of holding distrcits in PC since it started... Im an Urgent Fury Tournament Champion... The chance of changing the mechanics of this feature to what is purposed... Will somehow bring out tactics and planned use around the item is like planning that there is gonna be rainbows and sunshine for the rest of your existence. It's extremely un realistic, Makes no sense in any explanation to someone outside of DUST, Takes away from the game of DUST instead of adds to it, Hurts an entire player class(Logi's) and an entire entrance into the game with new players. Nanite Injector use should be encouraged amoungst new players in DUST, It allows them to contribute to the team while also helping the team and adding to immersion for all parties included. PS The Whole Reason people complain or have opinions based off "Bad" Logi's, are because the needle mechanic that CCP Built has created this problem No one can predict 100% where the enemy is and where they are coming from, or even if they will come around the corner the instant you engage a revive. We could create and add to the game in more ways then one with -1 death revives... But instead all people want to do is limit, remove and nerf things. Sad.
DootDoot Da Short Buss RISE of LEGION 351	Posted - 2014.11.03 05:04:00 - [107] - Quote I Have been a Logi for well over a year in this game. I usually pull crazy war points in any match I play, whether it's a squad or just solo running Logi and supporting who ever is in front of me. One thing I have learned as running as purely support(Not a slayer) for well over a year of playing this class. Logistics facilitate fun and memorable moments in DUST 514. Whether it is that fire fight stalemate that one side progresses and slowly overcomes, Or the Nanite injector scramble... as logi's on opposite sides try and keep people picked up, repaired and ammoed up to break a gunfire stalemate between two sides. The best times I have had playing DUST are when Support and Logi's actually work, It adds an element to this game that nothing else can or does... It creates memorable moments that i can recall a year later and bring up in conversations with friends who where there... These needle changes that are purposed will do nothing but hurt my entire class that I am passionate about. This isn't about an elitists idea of not wanting a to be picked up, it's about the team and playing at all costs for the win. I have won atleast 50+ Ambushes because of picking up everyone I can, keeping them repaired and nanohives down, I have received a many of Eve-mails from players appreciating the work and the fact that a well supported team can beat entire squads of "Elite" Corporations. Most often i get 1-2 hours a day max that I can engage in recreation, As working and paying taxes become more of my responsibility, I only have a few hours to play in the best case scenario and often don't have time to get on DUST and spend 20mins-1hour+ looking for a squad that communicates with Mic's and are onboard to pushing a revive button and then waiting for me to get to them. The mere idea that you can subject the entire player base(Who are mostly casual) to this giant nerf on needles and team gameplay for the sake of a broken mechanic that everyone has known about for almost 2 years? Seems surreal... Why would you screw everyone over for the sake of a few? Why not just let everyone benefit for an amazing game mechanic and the sitautions it will create, Rather then learn to loathe and hate the nerf that they gave the item(For the umpteenth time) That never needed to happen. Please think of the big picture and what each scenario actually brings to the game of DUST 514, Rattati.
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 433	Posted - 2014.11.03 05:09:00 - [108] - Quote Bethhy wrote: If every Dust player now has to hit a button to even get picked up or to even have the option to get picked up all of DUST will suffer. Your Clone doesn't technically belong to you... It belongs to the team as a whole. When your clone gets picked up off the floor, You didn't loose a clone... therefore your deaths should be -1. When Mercenaries are no longer pressing a revive button there will be no point in ever fitting a Nanite Injector. Making The "Needle" Obsolete in the game of DUST. This will hurt the Logi class, Teamwork, Immersion, tactics, gameplay... And clutch games that come down to clone counts(Skirm,Dom). It screaaaams of it being a giant LAZY fix for an issue we have had since Beta..... Please.... Pleaseee..... Figure out another option. This fix I fear will do more harm to the whole of the game to help an individual feel better about their K/D. Its crazy. It's all about choice. You guys that are against it I don't understand. If I can clearly see that I died, and was too far behind enemy lines I'm not going to request assistance. Some guys will pick you up for their own warpoints knowing full well they have not secured a successful rez by killing the enemy in the area. Is that not the same thing as guys who covet their kd? There are some logi wh*re's in this game that will rep you with bs rep tools, rez you with sh!t needles, and will bring militia nanohives to a gun fight for the points and isk?! I don't want some amateur rezzing me and getting me isnta-killed multiple times?! I should be able to make that choice. If I equip a needle, and no request help cool. I die less trying to get there. Same goes for vehicle locks. There should be an option to lock and unlock vehicles at will. Simple. I am pro choice when it comes to this game. Things that force me to play a certain way is why I don't play other games. I shouldn't be forced to get picked up in sh!tty situations because some novice is running the medic starter fit?! I shouldn't be forced to deal with some academy graduate riding around in my tank because I can't kick him. I don't know why logis with absolutely no intention of shooting anyone want to pick guys up anyway?! Something killed that guy, and there's a good chance he still around. That's why I run my needle on commandos and assaults. So I can eliminate the threat then protect my teammate once I rez him. I'm rocking 600-1100 ehp on those dropsuits. Not 400 or less?! If you're not gonna shoot don't rock needles! "Anybody order chaos?"
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 433	Posted - 2014.11.03 05:22:00 - [109] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: /a bit off topic Regarding KDR Cross Atu wrote: As I have said more times than I've bothered to count 'kdr' is a bad stat and it should feel bad. It is vague, is it misleading and it is a rather poor measurement to be tracking and displaying at the end of every match. {sic} Leaderboard rankings and general assessments should be derived from effectively playing ones role and contributing meaningfully to the win, not on some ePeen enctric stat like KDR. A scout deploying uplinks and providing intel for his team who doesn't get a kill is doing a good job and is valuable A logi who dies multiple times providing close support to his squad without a kill is doing a good job and is valuable An AV guy who dies multiple times with few or no kills but destroys or suppresses enemy vehicles is doing a good job and is valuable A DS pilot who spends the whole match deploying people and providing scans without a single kill is doing a good job and is valuable A merc who avoids contact and hacks points/installations to keep the board "blue" without a single kill is doing a good job and is valuable Conversely a merc who spends the whole match kill chasing, or kill stealing, while ignoring where his team is, what is happening with the objectives, etc. is not meaningfully contributing to the win and isn't of much tactical worth. Is killing the enemy relevant? Sure. Should one do it? Of course. Should it be featured and given such inferred wight as it is? Absolutely not. 0.02 ISK Cross This is so accurate! I don't support anything that makes an area of the game easy mode. War point wh*ring is easy mode as a logi. You just point your rep tool up a heavies butt, or needle guys you have no intention of keeping alive?! I will still carry a needle on my assault fits. It's the mercs choice if he wants rez. It's also his choice not to be triple killed. If you were truly being a "good logi" you would communicate your intentions in squad for the pickup. I give the merc enough time to make it clear that they want rez. I take out the enemy first which takes some time, and then if the downed team mate is still showing needle indicator I will go rez him. If he didn't want it the needle will go away, and in the case of 1.9 won't be there at all. "Anybody order chaos?"
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2477	Posted - 2014.11.03 05:24:00 - [110] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: Bethhy wrote: If every Dust player now has to hit a button to even get picked up or to even have the option to get picked up all of DUST will suffer. Your Clone doesn't technically belong to you... It belongs to the team as a whole. When your clone gets picked up off the floor, You didn't loose a clone... therefore your deaths should be -1. When Mercenaries are no longer pressing a revive button there will be no point in ever fitting a Nanite Injector. Making The "Needle" Obsolete in the game of DUST. This will hurt the Logi class, Teamwork, Immersion, tactics, gameplay... And clutch games that come down to clone counts(Skirm,Dom). It screaaaams of it being a giant LAZY fix for an issue we have had since Beta..... Please.... Pleaseee..... Figure out another option. This fix I fear will do more harm to the whole of the game to help an individual feel better about their K/D. Its crazy. It's all about choice. You guys that are against it I don't understand. If I can clearly see that I died, and was too far behind enemy lines I'm not going to request assistance. Some guys will pick you up for their own warpoints knowing full well they have not secured a successful rez by killing the enemy in the area. Is that not the same thing as guys who covet their kd? There are some logi wh*re's in this game that will rep you with bs rep tools, rez you with sh!t needles, and will bring militia nanohives to a gun fight for the points and isk?! I don't want some amateur rezzing me and getting me isnta-killed multiple times?! I should be able to make that choice. If I equip a needle, and no request help cool. I die less trying to get there. Same goes for vehicle locks. There should be an option to lock and unlock vehicles at will. Simple. I am pro choice when it comes to this game. Things that force me to play a certain way is why I don't play other games. I shouldn't be forced to get picked up in sh!tty situations because some novice is running the medic starter fit?! I shouldn't be forced to deal with some academy graduate riding around in my tank because I can't kick him. I don't know why logis with absolutely no intention of shooting anyone want to pick guys up anyway?! Something killed that guy, and there's a good chance he still around. That's why I run my needle on commandos and assaults. So I can eliminate the threat then protect my teammate once I rez him. I'm rocking 600-1100 ehp on those dropsuits. Not 400 or less?! If you're not gonna shoot don't rock needles! The best Logi's in the game get 3-6k+ war points and kill maybe 2 people.... Better ones sit at 0/0 with 5200+ war points. Those players win matches. Period. No player that plays this game knows 100% where the enemy is, Or if they are coming around a corner while your engaging your nanite injector... It doesn't matter how good you are at this game. The mere fact that this is such a huge issue for nearly every player that has something negative to say about nanite injectors should prove more then enough that it is the way Neede mechanics have worked in this game... Not the action of being picked up. The scenario's where your have Newbies running around and picking team mates up to gain war points and level up is done in many FPS's... Planetside 2 for example... New players are encouraged to go medic and support their team as they start to learn the game and gain XP. They run around and pick people up and repair them... This adds to the entire game, Makes huge epic fire fights... Creates lasting friendships and acquaintances and truly added to the feeling that the Battlefield... Is a battlefield. Battlefield franchise does the same thing with picking up team mates. -1 death.. Adds to the entire game... Creates avenues new players can contribute without being one of the best slayers, days or even months into the title.. -1 death adds to games. with countless examples and working ones right now... Allowing you to revive all your team mates all the time., Adds to the entire match and game... In DUST it goes one step further... It makes Sense with the story of the game. "Amateur's rezzing" you, would be generally a benefit for all parties. Instead "Screw everyone rezzing me" Which only will ever benefit a small group of players at the expense of the overall gameplay.

VikingKong iBUN T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 154	Posted - 2014.11.03 05:37:00 - [111] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: I definitely would prefer an accept/reject revive button, as I've said many times. Though this is better than doing nothing. The way nanite injectors previously worked is arguably a form of abusive gameplay, because it allowed other players to effectively take control of your character. I think denyrevive is terrible, from all standpoints. Why would a human being ever decline a revive? Also, teasing a logi by having him run over, put himself in danger and then refuse is disrespectful. If you want to picked up, you ask for it. We are not human beings. We are clones and dying is inconsequential, if I were down and I wanted to spawn in a different suit - I'd deny a revive for that reason. But making it so you have to specifically ask for a revive fixes this anyway, so I got no problem with that.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2477	Posted - 2014.11.03 05:37:00 - [112] - Quote DootDoot wrote: I Have been a Logi for well over a year in this game. I usually pull crazy war points in any match I play, whether it's a squad or just solo running Logi and supporting who ever is in front of me. One thing I have learned as running as purely support(Not a slayer) for well over a year of playing this class. Logistics facilitate fun and memorable moments in DUST 514. Whether it is that fire fight stalemate that one side progresses and slowly overcomes, Or the Nanite injector scramble... as logi's on opposite sides try and keep people picked up, repaired and ammoed up to break a gunfire stalemate between two sides. The best times I have had playing DUST are when Support and Logi's actually work, it adds an element to this game that nothing else can or does... It creates memorable moments that i can recall a year later and bring up in conversations with friends who where there... These needle changes that are purposed will do nothing but hurt my entire class that I am passionate about. This isn't about an elitists idea of not wanting a to be picked up, it's about the team and playing at all costs for the win. I have won at least 50+ Ambushes because of picking up everyone I can, keeping them repaired and nanohives down, I have received a many of Eve-mails from players appreciating the work and the fact that a well supported team can beat entire squads of "Elite" Corporations. Most often i get 1-2 hours a day max that I can engage in recreation, as working and paying taxes become more of my responsibility, I only have a few hours to play in the best case scenario and often don't have time to get on DUST and spend 20mins-1hour+ looking for a squad that communicates with Mic's and are onboard to pushing a revive button and then waiting for me to get to them. The mere idea that you can subject the entire player base(Who are mostly casual) to this giant nerf on needles and team gameplay for the sake of a broken mechanic that everyone has known about for almost 2 years? Seems surreal... Why would you screw everyone over for the sake of a few? Why not just let everyone benefit for an amazing game mechanic and the situations it will create, rather then learning to loathe and hate the nerf that they gave the item(For the umpteenth time) That never needed to happen. Please think of the big picture and what each scenario actually adds to the game of DUST 514, Rattati. QFT
Lloyd Orfay SHAKING BABIES FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE 156	Posted - 2014.11.03 05:55:00 - [113] - Quote My idea to prevent injector abuse is to put a delay on the wp earned from reviving someone. You won't get the war points unless the player hasn't died in 3 seconds or so., and if they do die they can't be revived for a futher 3 seconds or so. That is to make players wait until the time is right to revive them. If the player is revived a second time and dies before 3 seconds the clone terminates. On small vacation surfing on Caldari Tanks.
sir RAVEN WING Huogikku Corporation Heiian Conglomerate 89	Posted - 2014.11.03 07:19:00 - [114] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: We'd like to continue to encourage CCP to change the way deaths are recorded, so being revived does not count against players as a "death", since their clone was not terminated. We'd also like to continue to encourage CCP to implement additional WP for finishing off an incapacitated clone, and a change of the injector mechanic to an accept/reject mechanic so players can decide whether or not to accept a revive if they're under fire or being camped by a griefer. These are all things on my personal list, at least, and several other CPMs support some or all of these concepts. Yes! I've always had a habit of riddling my enemy's corpse full of ammunition, and it that* is implemented I will be getting WP like a madman and will never hear squadmates complain about me 'wasting' ammunition. *Words highlighted in bold. 514 Lottery
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game RUST415 1428	Posted - 2014.11.03 09:31:00 - [115] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Too much wimpy Logi revived me and I died crap... Comando Needle is the way, you revive a guy right where he's been shot & you stand between the squishy noob that died and the guy shooting, giving him time to get up and run to safety... This is the way of the Commandddoooooooooooooooooooooooooooo... Yes this is a thing now... I'm making it a thing! If only more could do the same... Commando Medic - Tough, high DMG, This is the guy I want moving in to revive me. Assault Medic - Decent mix of HP/Speed/DMG, a good choice to clear up a point and revive. Logistics Medic - GTFO The suit does not have the power to fight back enemies to clear the area before stabbing you with a needle, they have too much EQ that they run around farming WP with and when ** hits the fan they shoot at reds with a rep-tool rather than grow a pair and use a gun - Anyone familiar with the BFF - Battlefield Friends ???? In my mind - DUST logi medics will always be that blueberry dumbass, that's more effort than their worth - 'Oh but I have loads of EQ, are you saying I shouldn't be a medic????' -YES, you should run your support role and support, not charge frontline, get your teams source of repair/scans/spawns killed just so you can add +60 to your *-points you ** Rant over... until the next WP-farming bumble-bee earns money through his teams death. DMG D1CTATOR Official Scrub : hate(fan)mail coordinator. Give a merc lemons and they'l squeeze the juice in your eyes
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game RUST415 1428	Posted - 2014.11.03 09:37:00 - [116] - Quote I'm shocked the player-base is so WP hungry no-one can see that - LOGI = Bad Medic -Commando/Assault do it better, just with less EQ spam to top it off. -Scouts are better place than a Logi, because 'wallhacks' The Gallogi is one exception I'd make to being a good Medic, The Cal would join it if it had a fourth EQ slot to carry a needle ... but the others don't suit a medic role.. If you need to argue this you are bad, and should feel bad too DMG D1CTATOR Official Scrub : hate(fan)mail coordinator. Give a merc lemons and they'l squeeze the juice in your eyes
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4363	Posted - 2014.11.03 12:55:00 - [117] - Quote Remove K/D. Replace with WP/D. Suddenly the entire meta of DUST changes. Too much value is placed on K/D by tryhard corps and because of this the most valuable support roles and the people who are best at them will forever be relegated to crap roles. Most tryhard corps require a minimum k/d. I'll take 15 new people willing to learn over a buncha retards who stat pad to protect their e-peen any day. KDR has no value in a combined arms TEAM game. But entirely too much value is assigned to it. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2104	Posted - 2014.11.03 13:25:00 - [118] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Remove K/D. Replace with Isk Destroyed/Isk Lost. Suddenly the entire meta of DUST changes. Too much value is placed on K/D by tryhard corps and because of this the most valuable support roles and the people who are best at them will forever be relegated to crap roles. Most tryhard corps require a minimum k/d. I'll take 15 new people willing to learn over a buncha retards who stat pad to protect their e-peen any day. KDR has no value in a combined arms TEAM game. But entirely too much value is assigned to it. FTFY Proof that Rattati/CCP do listen to the playerbase.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4364	Posted - 2014.11.03 13:47:00 - [119] - Quote Does not fix. Logis supporting with the beans, bullets and bandaids don't tend to destroy much ISK in enemy equipment. WP/D. ISK destroyed/lost should be a CORP metric, not a merc metric. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2477	Posted - 2014.11.03 18:31:00 - [120] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Remove K/D. Replace with WP/D. Suddenly the entire meta of DUST changes. Too much value is placed on K/D by tryhard corps and because of this the most valuable support roles and the people who are best at them will forever be relegated to crap roles. Most tryhard corps require a minimum k/d. I'll take 15 new people willing to learn over a buncha retards who stat pad to protect their e-peen any day. KDR has no value in a combined arms TEAM game. But entirely too much value is assigned to it. KDR regardless of personal feeling of the stat is present in every game... Even EVE... People actually take the KD/R in EVE very serious.... Investing Billions on a Faction ship so that they are more effective and have increased chance at success. Here is a friend of mine https://zkillboard.com/character/964518696/. Spends 5-6bil just on the frigates he flies. DUST in no way is any different... What reason is there to invest more ISK into a dropsuit? There really is only one answer... To increase your chance at success... People invest their hard earned ISK into suits to increase their personal stats. That is the big picture around KDR. People would rather not be picked up because you have the potential to loose more in personal stats that have had ISK invested into it. Then the individual ISK cost of the suit. This ruins competitive scenarios, epic fire fights and your teams ultimate relevancy in the positions gained on the map. There is no incentive to actually BE picked up on a small personal picture scenario.. For anyone that has invested ISK to get better results, it will never make sense. Catering to the mentality that the fringe mercenary group in DUST has about needles being a waste is because of poor game design. Not the Needle, Not the "Bad Logi" not the imbalances in the game and definately not because of the "New" player. But because of poor game design around the feature. Turning the item into something that is only useable in the rare occasion in DUST's pubs is not the answer to fixing a feature that has been setup for failure instead of success.

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4389	Posted - 2014.11.03 18:43:00 - [121] - Quote Bethhy wrote: KDR regardless of personal feeling of the stat is present in every game... Even EVE... People actually take the KD/R in EVE very serious.... please tell me how K/D is actually useful in a team game where different roles are going to have wildly differing KD rates (without being a stat padder). Nothing you said invalidates my statement that it is a useless metric, and just because everyone else measures it doesn't mean that automatically makes it relevant to the overarching meta behind the game. KDR adds nothing of value to the game besides a measure of PERSONAL kill efficiency that can be artificially brought up by playing nothing but redline sniper for a month. It's a stat padder metric, nothing more, and a risk-aversion metric. I stand by my statement that i'd rather have five clueless, but willing to learn newbs on my side than an entire TEAM of KDR fanatics. Because I can teach the newbs to kill risk-averse buttheads with high stats and make them ragequit. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2477	Posted - 2014.11.03 18:55:00 - [122] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Bethhy wrote: KDR regardless of personal feeling of the stat is present in every game... Even EVE... People actually take the KD/R in EVE very serious.... please tell me how K/D is actually useful in a team game where different roles are going to have wildly differing KD rates (without being a stat padder). Nothing you said invalidates my statement that it is a useless metric, and just because everyone else measures it doesn't mean that automatically makes it relevant to the overarching meta behind the game. KDR adds nothing of value to the game besides a measure of PERSONAL kill efficiency that can be artificially brought up by playing nothing but redline sniper for a month. It's a stat padder metric, nothing more, and a risk-aversion metric. I stand by my statement that i'd rather have five clueless, but willing to learn newbs on my side than an entire TEAM of KDR fanatics. Because I can teach the newbs to kill risk-averse buttheads with high stats and make them ragequit. The Metric works in EVE. Where destroyed ISK value versus lost value is something that actually matters... As MAKING ISK requires a complete change in activities and hours of time invested back into the process. KDR has been used and measured by nearly every major corporation that has had competitive aspirations.. It does actually measure something... Regardless of your person feelings. Yes there are different classes that alter the range in which your KDR is relevant.. As every player and corporation has known and scales for... A Logi isn't held upto the same statistic need as a Assault slayer... Just like a tanker is held differently to a ground soldier... This is not new in DUST... Nore any game that has come before or after it... Trying to make KDR irrelevant in a game where losses matter will never make sense but for those who get offended by KDR "Padders" And Please.. Sit in the redline all day and "Pad" your kills... You will be lucky to kill 100 people in a day... Now explain people with 50-100k+ kills and high KDR?.... FOTM, Tankers, Hackers, Glitchers... Like seriously stop buying into the lame forum propaganda and general sweeping statements like KDR "Padders" in the red-line... Like it has any basis in the reality of everyday gameplay in DUST. Regardless of what happens or personal feelings, Kills and Deaths are gonna be recorded in DUST. Just like they are in EVE, it will always be a statistic... Adding in mroe statistics? Makes sense... Me Personally would love an Accuracy statistic.. Hit box UI that tells you how many headshots you have made... How many times you shot a guy in the left leg.... Statistics in the long big picture of this IP will help EVE Pilots invest and choose the Mercenaries they will want to invest into. Removing the most simplistic and basic one as recording your kills versus deaths is not a big picture problem.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4390	Posted - 2014.11.03 18:59:00 - [123] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Bethhy wrote: KDR regardless of personal feeling of the stat is present in every game... Even EVE... People actually take the KD/R in EVE very serious.... please tell me how K/D is actually useful in a team game where different roles are going to have wildly differing KD rates (without being a stat padder). Nothing you said invalidates my statement that it is a useless metric, and just because everyone else measures it doesn't mean that automatically makes it relevant to the overarching meta behind the game. KDR adds nothing of value to the game besides a measure of PERSONAL kill efficiency that can be artificially brought up by playing nothing but redline sniper for a month. It's a stat padder metric, nothing more, and a risk-aversion metric. I stand by my statement that i'd rather have five clueless, but willing to learn newbs on my side than an entire TEAM of KDR fanatics. Because I can teach the newbs to kill risk-averse buttheads with high stats and make them ragequit. The Metric works in EVE. Where destroyed ISK value versus lost value is something that actually matters... As MAKING ISK requires a complete change in activities and hours of time invested back into the process. KDR has been used and measured by nearly every major corporation that has had competitive aspirations.. It does actually measure something... Regardless of your person feelings. Yes there are different classes that alter the range in which your KDR is relevant.. As every player and corporation has known and scales for... A Logi isn't held upto the same statistic need as a Assault slayer... Just like a tanker is held differently to a ground soldier... This is not new in DUST... Nore any game that has come before or after it... Trying to make KDR irrelevant in a game where losses matter will never make sense but for those who get offended by KDR "Padders" And Please.. Sit in the redline all day and "Pad" your kills... You will be lucky to kill 100 people in a day... Now explain people with 50-100k+ kills and high KDR?.... FOTM, Tankers, Hackers, Glitchers... Like seriously stop buying into the lame forum propaganda and general sweeping statements like KDR "Padders" in the red-line... Like it has any basis in the reality of everyday gameplay in DUST. Regardless of what happens or personal feelings, Kills and Deaths are gonna be recorded in DUST. Just like they are in EVE, it will always be a statistic... Adding in mroe statistics? Makes sense... Me Personally would love an Accuracy statistic.. Hit box UI that tells you how many headshots you have made... How many times you shot a guy in the left leg.... Statistics in the long big picture of this IP will help EVE Pilots invest and choose the Mercenaries they will want to invest into. Removing the most simplistic and basic one as recording your kills versus deaths is not a big picture problem. ISK lost vs ISK destroyed is not KDR. If your ship costs 700,000 ISK and you get destroyed but the enemy uses 700,500 ISK in ammo to kill it, you have won the ISK war. that stat in KDR if it was your first fight would be 0/1. in the ISK war, it would be a positive ratio. ISK killed/lost is a good CORP metric in DUST, but it isn't much more useful on an INDIVIDUAL level because Logis will invariably have the LOWEST and habitual AV will have the highest with assaults and commandos/HMG sentinels being lukewarm at best. WP/D is the best individual metric because it measures contribution to the team in DUST and is more valuable than either of the above. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4392	Posted - 2014.11.03 19:06:00 - [124] - Quote hell, now that I think about it, in EVE you can 100% win the ISK war every time by only flying unmodded rookie ships without implants. the enemy will always expend more ISK killing you than you will expend buying the ship. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2477	Posted - 2014.11.03 19:13:00 - [125] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: ISK lost vs ISK destroyed is not KDR. If your ship costs 700,000 ISK and you get destroyed but the enemy uses 700,500 ISK in ammo to kill it, you have won the ISK war. ISK killed/lost is a good CORP metric in DUST, but it isn't much more useful on an INDIVIDUAL level because Logis will invariably have the LOWEST and habitual AV will have the highest with assaults and commandos/HMG sentinels being lukewarm at best. WP/D is the best individual metric because it measures contribution to the team in DUST and is more valuable than either of the above. I Have played EVE solid since 2003... couple toons well over 180m SP, I Know what an ISK war is... Simply going out in EVE to have your killboard be more positive with ISK killed versus ISK lost and basing your opinions on a Pod pilot on that alone is something Goons would do lol. It doesn't stack up to a players overall ability or recruitability into elite EVE PVP wings Like VOLTA... Most of those statistics on pilots are based of group kills over solo kills. We as EVE players look at the entire statistical data around the player... and KDR is a big factor. CCP Has setup EVE with enough raw data that players have built there own statistical analysis of the process. Im not arguing that having more statistics in DUST would hurt it, On the contrary it would be better in the long big term goal of this IP.... But replacing a Statistic that is relevant because of the idea of EVE creeping in about an "ISK War" is silly. In EVE you aren't making money off the everyday PVP engagement... PVP and Money making in EVE are largely separated.. even if you get good drops off a PVP kill, it will often goto fleet ship losses or an alliance reinbursement program. You then have to stop after taking a loss in ISK and then go and make money doing separate activities that are not based off PVP at all. In DUST, you make your ISK while pvping. The ISK war is only so relevant in a scenario like this... Adverse to EVE. More statistics are good, Replacing one statistic for another is bad.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4396	Posted - 2014.11.03 19:24:00 - [126] - Quote Elite PvP groups are only a concern when they associate and operate with Pandemic Legion. No one gives a rippling crap about them otherwise, because their relevancy factor is ZERO. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4402	Posted - 2014.11.03 19:40:00 - [127] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Simply going out in EVE to have your killboard be more positive with ISK killed versus ISK lost and basing your opinions on a Pod pilot on that alone is something Goons would do lol. No, actually, not giving a sht about stats on a killboard at all is something Goons would do. If you think KDR was ever a factor in my decisions about who I was taking into a PC or Corp battle with me you're delusional. I've taken a mixed bag of neckbeards of various talent plus 5 rank newbies (less than 2 mil SP at the time) into PC matches and won with them because... GASP* ...people actually followed instructions. they died a lot sure, but damn if the little beggars weren't the most adorable little murder enthusiasts I ever did see. And the newbees kept the goddamned uplinks off my battlefield as I instructed them to, which allowed me to use an AFG as a suppression weapon to keep red dots OUT OF MY ENTRY AREAS in the Orbital artillery map. So tell me. Just how valuable do you think I should believe K/D is? I consider it valueless because experience playing this game has shown me that it is valueless. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2477	Posted - 2014.11.03 19:48:00 - [128] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Bethhy wrote: Simply going out in EVE to have your killboard be more positive with ISK killed versus ISK lost and basing your opinions on a Pod pilot on that alone is something Goons would do lol. No, actually, not giving a sht about stats on a killboard at all is something Goons would do. If you think KDR was ever a factor in my decisions about who I was taking into a PC or Corp battle with me you're delusional. I've taken a mixed bag of neckbeards of various talent plus 5 rank newbies (less than 2 mil SP at the time) into PC matches and won with them because... GASP* ...people actually followed instructions. they died a lot sure, but damn if the little beggars weren't the most adorable little murder enthusiasts I ever did see. And the newbees kept the goddamned uplinks off my battlefield as I instructed them to, which allowed me to use an AFG as a suppression weapon to keep red dots OUT OF MY ENTRY AREAS in the Orbital artillery map. So tell me. Just how valuable do you think I should believe K/D is? I consider it valueless because experience playing this game has shown me that it is valueless. Im Glad a goonfeet member has explained to me on what metric to use to judge a Mercenary on. If Only Ancient Exiles learned this lesson we might have had a better run? Winning a PC makes all your statements completely valid somehow. Goons don't even show upto CTA's versus Volta or Hax anymore... a couple pilots make fleets of 300+ with super capitals useless. Nothing here is new... it has been happening since 2012.
sir RAVEN WING Huogikku Corporation Heiian Conglomerate 89	Posted - 2014.11.03 19:50:00 - [129] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Bethhy wrote: Simply going out in EVE to have your killboard be more positive with ISK killed versus ISK lost and basing your opinions on a Pod pilot on that alone is something Goons would do lol. No, actually, not giving a sht about stats on a killboard at all is something Goons would do. If you think KDR was ever a factor in my decisions about who I was taking into a PC or Corp battle with me you're delusional. I've taken a mixed bag of neckbeards of various talent plus 5 rank newbies (less than 2 mil SP at the time) into PC matches and won with them because... GASP* ...people actually followed instructions. they died a lot sure, but damn if the little beggars weren't the most adorable little murder enthusiasts I ever did see. And the newbees kept the goddamned uplinks off my battlefield as I instructed them to, which allowed me to use an AFG as a suppression weapon to keep red dots OUT OF MY ENTRY AREAS in the Orbital artillery map. So tell me. Just how valuable do you think I should believe K/D is? I consider it valueless because experience playing this game has shown me that it is valueless. Let me just finish this argument (Or start it back up). KDR should only be watched by Frontline Assault, no one else. Killing is an assault's purpose, just as a scout's purpose is to be a the one who sneaks behind enemy lines, just as a Logibro is to heal and revive, just as a heavy is to defend, get it? 514 Lottery
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2477	Posted - 2014.11.03 19:53:00 - [130] - Quote duplicate posts. Edit

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4402	Posted - 2014.11.03 19:55:00 - [131] - Quote I'm sorry, back up one minute... What's a CTA? Is this something people who give a crap do? Is it seekrit code for "everyone go ratting at 100% tax so we can pretend to provide an SRP?" Seriously, we don't do CTAs. Ratters can either defend themselves or call for fleet assistance per normal. Most ratters we have can defend themselves. the ones who don't are AFK ratting while their mains are involved with burning down whatever piece of crap space you call home, usually. Or occupying Mordu's Legion missions for the cool profits. Elite PvP... You fly out and kill a few ships. We are bad, but we're organized, and we seem to be winning. TEST alliance please stand up and wave. BOB please make a good showing... oh wait... we kicked you out of your homes. Sorry about that. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4402	Posted - 2014.11.03 19:56:00 - [132] - Quote sir RAVEN WING wrote: Logibro is to heal and revive, just as a heavy is to chase donuts and kill people before they catch it and deny you the sugary goodness, get it? Fixed that for you EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2477	Posted - 2014.11.03 20:06:00 - [133] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I'm sorry, back up one minute... What's a CTA? Is this something people who give a crap do? Is it seekrit code for "everyone go ratting at 100% tax so we can pretend to provide an SRP?" Seriously, we don't do CTAs. Ratters can either defend themselves or call for fleet assistance per normal. Most ratters we have can defend themselves. the ones who don't are AFK ratting while their mains are involved with burning down whatever piece of crap space you call home, usually. Or occupying Mordu's Legion missions for the cool profits. Elite PvP... You fly out and kill a few ships. We are bad, but we're organized, and we seem to be winning. TEST alliance please stand up and wave. BOB please make a good showing... oh wait... we kicked you out of your homes. Sorry about that. I Was there on the Leadership council of Red Alliance when we even chose to use goonswarm as Fodder in the war against Bob.... I have alt's in Goonswarm... you can bullshit about ratters defending themselves or some magical Goon fleet that will show up and never does... or that CTA's don't exist... TEST was created from the leadership of Goonswarm... The entire space they occupied was part of the deal when they formed after the leaders lost entire Freighters full of rare BPO's during a move. back in 2011 the leaders of goons and TEST got together and planned a war to start in 2012... Just like Goons pay off PL and Elite PVP entities for NAP's. You seem very un informed about most things. and use loose information based around half truth as anecdotal evidence. Yes Goons won a manufactured war against TEST. And Yes Red Alliance beat BOB(Goons had no capitals and bob was all Super caps) and funded goons even starting off. You guys died perfect and baited Doomsdays perfect. Hats off. One minute your touting how important Isk wars are... The next it somehow doesn't matter. I'll continue to LOVE not having to own space but have a multi billion dollar income come in every few weeks so i can PVP all day everyday in EVE. Keep minning those rocks and killing those rats.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4403	Posted - 2014.11.03 20:11:00 - [134] - Quote Bethhy wrote: I Was there Sounds like a quote that would be picked up from a commercial. 1/10 EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4809	Posted - 2014.11.03 20:18:00 - [135] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Lots of people here love their KDRs, right? So suppose you don't get a death counted against your KDR until you are terminated? This would have people wanting to be revived because it wouldn't hurt their KDRs. This is a thing I've been asking for for a long time. I understand why you would think this way, but I disagree. If you get put down, you got killed, no two ways about it. Guy who shot you earned a K, you unfortunately earned a D. Just because you can be revived doesn't mean you can un-ring that bell. I agree with this 100% I am more inclined toward Alena VentrallisGÇÖ way of thinking, however it is a lot easier to accept the current definition of a GÇ£deathGÇ¥ now that you are able to make a judgement call on whether it is safe to be revived. Getting raised only to be instantly killed again over and over in the same spot really made a lot of people question the validity of registering a death when no clone was lost. Having the ability to say GÇ£it is not safe to ress me hereGÇ¥ by not pressing your button will make this debate more of a philosophical discussion rather than an immediate and serious problem. Also, I have been asking for Res a lot more since the needles were changed to give shields as well as armor. It has been saving me ISK, and helping in Ambush matches. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3696	Posted - 2014.11.03 21:20:00 - [136] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: People that hate needles say a lot about their overall view of teamwork. 100% needles with a squad plus of your own peeps is OP. I'll take a revive around a contested objective 100% of the time. Even if the enemy waits to shoot me after my revive, they aren't shooting my teammates that are doing work at the objective. ^This. The change will essentially "buff teamwork." As fewer and fewer mercs call for revives due to a erroneous fascination with KDR/epeen the merc who are focused on the win and even more so those who are actively in squads will hold a larger mechanical advantage than they already do. The net effect of this change is that a coordinated squad (and to a much lessor extent even a team oriented solo player) will hold more effective value on the field than they do at present. My advice is to squad quickly, squad often, and squad with folks who understand teamwork and that includes the tactical value of being revived. Those who do not are likely to face consistently harder matches in the days to come. 0.02 ISK Cross So your advice is to basically only have a squad if you want needles to be relevant at all... Or pray that someone will fit a needle when you decide to push a button then patiently wait? Like seriously? This does nothing but nerf needles into the ground because the mechanics around the item was setup to abuse players who got picked up because "They have a chance to defend their isk" yet die again regardless of no clone loss. Lets put aside the fact that this fix makes absolutely no sense. Makes even less sense as you try to explain DUST and how it works to your friend who hasn't played it.... As they look at your weird as you try and profess how much sense it makes. It doesn't matter what imaginary world the CSM are living in.... The Squad mechanics in DUST for the average mercenary are terrible... Squad finder is like a joke played on the playerbase... The average DUST player will have no hope AT ALL at using these new needle mechanics that are purposed.... It will be something used be veteran players at best and require more communication and team work then is currently exhibited even in the Height of PC... With the largest longest wars in DUST's history with arguably the best FC's and mercs that have played this game. Remember i have been part of PC since it started, have been part of holding distrcits in PC since it started... Im an Urgent Fury Tournament Champion... Require more communication and teamwork than is currently exhibited even in the height of PC? If this statement is true than I should really get back into playing PC consistently, because my average pub squads (which are not composed solely of members from my corp) can consistently use needles to good effect. If we decide to run a tight squad there are usually 2-3 injectors present, a primary with backups for the primary in case he goes down. Do I think the new mechanics will likely call for some other refinements or changes to truly make them polished? Sure. But this is hardly a "the sky is falling" moment. Besides, with or without these changes the injector has bigger issues to be addressed. Like the painfully long animation, the "ghost" revive icons, the injection miss fires and the client/server discync which causes injection points to sometimes not even touch the downed body. Quote: The chance of changing the mechanics of this feature to what is purposed... Will somehow bring out tactics and planned use around the item is like planning that there is gonna be rainbows and sunshine for the rest of your existence. It's extremely un realistic, Makes no sense in any explanation to someone outside of DUST, Takes away from the game of DUST instead of adds to it, Hurts an entire player class(Logi's) and an entire entrance into the game with new players. Nanite Injector use should be encouraged amoungst new players in DUST, It allows them to contribute to the team while also helping the team and adding to immersion for all parties included. I've played Logi since closed beta, I am a dedicated support player to the extent that I was one of those Logi who ran repair tools for my team even when they gave 0 WP for their use. As such I am well aware of how the mechanics work and how many mercs ePeen their way out of revives and how many more will do so with this mechanic. Which is exactly why it is a buff to cooperative play because all those 'KDR kittens' will be busy bleeding out like civies while players who care about tactics and cooperation will still have the advantages injectors provide. ps ~ hyperbole is not persuasive See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3696	Posted - 2014.11.03 21:28:00 - [137] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Remove K/D. Replace with WP/D. Suddenly the entire meta of DUST changes. Too much value is placed on K/D by tryhard corps and because of this the most valuable support roles and the people who are best at them will forever be relegated to crap roles. Most tryhard corps require a minimum k/d. I'll take 15 new people willing to learn over a buncha retards who stat pad to protect their e-peen any day. KDR has no value in a combined arms TEAM game. But entirely too much value is assigned to it. ^Accurate. I'd love to have more than one stat replace the current abysmal mess that is kdr, but even this one simple step would be a huge improvement, at least then it would not bias the game so heavily for and against certain roles. See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4415	Posted - 2014.11.03 21:30:00 - [138] - Quote hyperbole is the new evidence, didn't you know? Like No f**ks given is the new concern. 5 newbies willing to listen & learn is more valuable than a horde of KDR kiddies. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Alder King 127	Posted - 2014.11.04 00:47:00 - [139] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: hyperbole is the new evidence, didn't you know? Like No fks given is the new concern. 5 newbies willing to listen & learn is more valuable than a horde of KDR kiddies. You know, my favorite "kdr kiddie" would have to be extacy cravings. Taking to him after a PC match "oh man, i need to go play some pubs or my kdr will drop below 9" EX wasn't the only one like that. I'll take a kdr *** over since logi any day, because you know were going to win and probably by cloning out the other team Alder King? More like drag king.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3703	Posted - 2014.11.04 02:55:00 - [140] - Quote Alder King wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: hyperbole is the new evidence, didn't you know? Like No fks given is the new concern. 5 newbies willing to listen & learn is more valuable than a horde of KDR kiddies. You know, my favorite "kdr kiddie" would have to be extacy cravings. Taking to him after a PC match "oh man, i need to go play some pubs or my kdr will drop below 9" EX wasn't the only one like that. I'll take a kdr *** over since logi any day, because you know were going to win and probably by cloning out the other team A couple false corollaries there, first being that not all kdr kittens are also combat monsters, you can be both obsessed with a bad stat and bad at the game simultaneously. Second is the use of Logi in the example, because frankly the role/class is broken right now and undergoing review for an overall rework because of it's present ineffectual baseline. So boiled down your statement in effect is "I'd take high gun game players over players running an underpowered role because you're more likely to win by clone out" See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)

Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2477	Posted - 2014.11.04 13:32:00 - [141] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Require more communication and teamwork than is currently exhibited even in the height of PC? If this statement is true than I should really get back into playing PC consistently, because my average pub squads (which are not composed solely of members from my corp) can consistently use needles to good effect. If we decide to run a tight squad there are usually 2-3 injectors present, a primary with backups for the primary in case he goes down. Do I think the new mechanics will likely call for some other refinements or changes to truly make them polished? Sure. But this is hardly a "the sky is falling" moment. Besides, with or without these changes the injector has bigger issues to be addressed. Like the painfully long animation, the "ghost" revive icons, the injection miss fires and the client/server discync which causes injection points to sometimes not even touch the downed body. I've played Logi since closed beta, I am a dedicated support player to the extent that I was one of those Logi who ran repair tools for my team even when they gave 0 WP for their use. As such I am well aware of how the mechanics work and how many mercs ePeen their way out of revives and how many more will do so with this mechanic. Which is exactly why it is a buff to cooperative play because all those 'KDR kittens' will be busy bleeding out like civies while players who care about tactics and cooperation will still have the advantages injectors provide. ps ~ hyperbole is not persuasive Your trying to convert a pub squad to PC and Pub tactics to PC... They just don't convert unless your playing inexperienced competitive players. Clone packs in PC have limited clones compared to the defenders for a reason.. Yet it isn't the Needle or Logi that makes it relevant.. Which was the intent. In the ultimate forms of competition in DUST from Tournaments to playing PC competition the day it came out to well over a year of play... These changes are un realistic and will kill the use of needles for some hypothetical tactical play and forward communication scenario that wont happen in mass majority through DUST. Taking a feature widely used throughout all DUST with poor game design around it... Then nerfing and limiting the item to "Fix" it is assbackwards. Trying to explain away how it will limit, nerf and hurt players in majority for a few people that didn't want to be picked up because of poor game design around the item. Is mind boggling.. Polishing the feature and everything mentioned has been problems since Closed beta in DUST, then further from the Death screen, (Which again makes no sense why it is present when your clone is merely incapacitated.) People have thousands of posts about these issues. Regardless of how you look at it or what hypothetical situations you think these changes bring amoungst tactics. This Purposed change overall takes away from the game. and adds nothing. This is a big problem and sadly becoming a trend here.
RKKR WarRavens Capital Punishment. 1043	Posted - 2014.11.04 14:16:00 - [142] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: I definitely would prefer an accept/reject revive button, as I've said many times. Though this is better than doing nothing. The way nanite injectors previously worked is arguably a form of abusive gameplay, because it allowed other players to effectively take control of your character. I think denyrevive is terrible, from all standpoints. Why would a human being ever decline a revive? Also, teasing a logi by having him run over, put himself in danger and then refuse is disrespectful. If you want to picked up, you ask for it. I'm not following you as not asking = denying a revive. I guess we'll have to wait for the numbers (PS: where is that mho-thing report staying?)
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1528	Posted - 2014.11.04 14:39:00 - [143] - Quote RKKR wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: I definitely would prefer an accept/reject revive button, as I've said many times. Though this is better than doing nothing. The way nanite injectors previously worked is arguably a form of abusive gameplay, because it allowed other players to effectively take control of your character. I think denyrevive is terrible, from all standpoints. Why would a human being ever decline a revive? Also, teasing a logi by having him run over, put himself in danger and then refuse is disrespectful. If you want to picked up, you ask for it. I'm not following you as not asking = denying a revive. I guess we'll have to wait for the numbers (PS: where is that mho-thing report staying?) That's exactly how I feel about these needle changes. They're absolutely terrible. 1) A clone is not 'yours', it is your teams. 2) Higher tier needles are meant to be capable of being used in combat, with these changes they wont be. 3) In order for someone to even be likely to ask for a combat revive they'd have to be aware of how you're fit, otherwise they're likely to just assume 'mlt needle' and not bother. 4) Why should I pack around a piece of equipment when I'm not allowed to use it - as not asking for a revive is the same as denying it. These changes cave to the KDR obsessed and the whiners. Yes a bad needle will happen, just as a bad uplink can happen or a bad orbital can happen. EMT's don't require permission to save the lives of those who aren't capable of communicating. As others have said, a clone should not be counted as 'dead' until terminated. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4430	Posted - 2014.11.04 14:48:00 - [144] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Require more communication and teamwork than is currently exhibited even in the height of PC? If this statement is true than I should really get back into playing PC consistently, because my average pub squads (which are not composed solely of members from my corp) can consistently use needles to good effect. If we decide to run a tight squad there are usually 2-3 injectors present, a primary with backups for the primary in case he goes down. Do I think the new mechanics will likely call for some other refinements or changes to truly make them polished? Sure. But this is hardly a "the sky is falling" moment. Besides, with or without these changes the injector has bigger issues to be addressed. Like the painfully long animation, the "ghost" revive icons, the injection miss fires and the client/server discync which causes injection points to sometimes not even touch the downed body. I've played Logi since closed beta, I am a dedicated support player to the extent that I was one of those Logi who ran repair tools for my team even when they gave 0 WP for their use. As such I am well aware of how the mechanics work and how many mercs ePeen their way out of revives and how many more will do so with this mechanic. Which is exactly why it is a buff to cooperative play because all those 'KDR kittens' will be busy bleeding out like civies while players who care about tactics and cooperation will still have the advantages injectors provide. ps ~ hyperbole is not persuasive Your trying to convert a pub squad to PC and Pub tactics to PC... They just don't convert unless your playing inexperienced competitive players. Clone packs in PC have limited clones compared to the defenders for a reason.. Yet it isn't the Needle or Logi that makes it relevant.. Which was the intent. In the ultimate forms of competition in DUST from Tournaments to playing PC competition the day it came out to well over a year of play... These changes are un realistic and will kill the use of needles for some hypothetical tactical play and forward communication scenario that wont happen in mass majority through DUST. Taking a feature widely used throughout all DUST with poor game design around it... Then nerfing and limiting the item to "Fix" it is assbackwards. Trying to explain away how it will limit, nerf and hurt players in majority for a few people that didn't want to be picked up because of poor game design around the item. Is mind boggling.. Polishing the feature and everything mentioned has been problems since Closed beta in DUST, then further from the Death screen, (Which again makes no sense why it is present when your clone is merely incapacitated.) People have thousands of posts about these issues. Regardless of how you look at it or what hypothetical situations you think these changes bring amoungst tactics. This Purposed change overall takes away from the game. and adds nothing. This is a big problem and sadly becoming a trend here. Bethhy does have a point here, Cross. It is sorta like my whole thing with the "remove the redline" threads. Doing this to needles is really fixing the "wrong" problem. I use needles quite successfully in FW at least, and I plan to keep at least one fit that still has wiyrkomi's for that purpose alone (otherwise I'm swtiching to scanners ) . I'll tell you right now, the few people who do die quickly after I revive them, a minimum of 75% of the time it's due to technical issues that give time for the enemy to regroup. The room was clear when I hit O the first time, but by the fourth damn time I hit it, and the second time through the animation, it's not anymore. As for the shotgun kill-revive grieifing, changing the kill screen and speeding up the time it takes for the bleedout or "punish" button to show up would take care of that. Otherwise, I honestly do see this change in large part to be pandering to the KDR kittens. Which, as I noted before, could still be placated with a bleedout button, leaving the default option as being revivable. But, we will see. Maybe this will incentivize coordinated play, maybe it won't. Hopefully we won't need to wait for another full patch to change it back if it does really kill needles. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Finn Colman Immortal Guides 48	Posted - 2014.11.04 17:00:00 - [145] - Quote I think that requesting revives being required to get picked up is not really the best option, mostly because of these two reasons, newberries will likely not figure this out without a bit of either struggle, attention--don't make me laugh by telling me that new players in any game are very attentive, or willingness to look for help outside of the game (i.e. guides on forums, asking questions online, etc.); and how many other games do this? Essentially, I'm most concerned about how this will cause some trouble with new players. This would need to told to them is a way where they are forced to read/listen to it, and are guaranteed to encounter it. A bleedout option has, however been in quite a few games and will be much easier for new players to understand, and for most people to remember when they really don't want to be picked up. I feel like there does need to be an option for someone to refuse a revive in one way or another, sorry but some of couldn't care less about our K/D and -1 D would really not do much for them relating to this issue. I'm certainly not against -1 D on pickup, but this only fixes part of the problem for KD kiddies, or possibly just an assault who needs a good KD to get into the corp they want. I'm a strong supporter of the addition of other performance measuring stats, as I have said previously along with quite a few others, K/D is not always relevant to a person's playstyle. As it was brought up before in this discussion was that if we had an "accept/deny" system then a logi could end up putting themselves in a potentially risky situation for nothing. Just to restate my position: Have a bleedout option, not required requests for help, nor accept/deny. Give the hardcore assaults and KD kiddies their -1 D on pickup. The little Min with the little voice.
Doshneil Antaro Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 292	Posted - 2014.11.04 19:50:00 - [146] - Quote R.I.P. needles, I have had 0 chances to revive anyone yet. Welcome to Scans 514. Its your fault CCP, we offered better fixes that would add to this game, but instead your funneling logis away from medic roles and forcing us into slayer roles. Sage /thread
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 421	Posted - 2014.11.04 22:27:00 - [147] - Quote Just. Let. Them. Die. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Gelan Corbaine Gladiators Vanguard 481	Posted - 2014.11.05 00:15:00 - [148] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Just. Let. Them. Die. That. Loses.Us. Ambushes. No job is worth doing if you don't get paid in the end .
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3723	Posted - 2014.11.05 00:58:00 - [149] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Bethhy wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Require more communication and teamwork than is currently exhibited even in the height of PC? If this statement is true than I should really get back into playing PC consistently, because my average pub squads (which are not composed solely of members from my corp) can consistently use needles to good effect. If we decide to run a tight squad there are usually 2-3 injectors present, a primary with backups for the primary in case he goes down. Do I think the new mechanics will likely call for some other refinements or changes to truly make them polished? Sure. But this is hardly a "the sky is falling" moment. Besides, with or without these changes the injector has bigger issues to be addressed. Like the painfully long animation, the "ghost" revive icons, the injection miss fires and the client/server discync which causes injection points to sometimes not even touch the downed body. I've played Logi since closed beta, I am a dedicated support player to the extent that I was one of those Logi who ran repair tools for my team even when they gave 0 WP for their use. As such I am well aware of how the mechanics work and how many mercs ePeen their way out of revives and how many more will do so with this mechanic. Which is exactly why it is a buff to cooperative play because all those 'KDR kittens' will be busy bleeding out like civies while players who care about tactics and cooperation will still have the advantages injectors provide. ps ~ hyperbole is not persuasive Your trying to convert a pub squad to PC and Pub tactics to PC... They just don't convert unless your playing inexperienced competitive players. Clone packs in PC have limited clones compared to the defenders for a reason.. Yet it isn't the Needle or Logi that makes it relevant.. Which was the intent. In the ultimate forms of competition in DUST from Tournaments to playing PC competition the day it came out to well over a year of play... These changes are un realistic and will kill the use of needles for some hypothetical tactical play and forward communication scenario that wont happen in mass majority through DUST. Taking a feature widely used throughout all DUST with poor game design around it... Then nerfing and limiting the item to "Fix" it is assbackwards. Trying to explain away how it will limit, nerf and hurt players in majority for a few people that didn't want to be picked up because of poor game design around the item. Is mind boggling.. Polishing the feature and everything mentioned has been problems since Closed beta in DUST, then further from the Death screen, (Which again makes no sense why it is present when your clone is merely incapacitated.) People have thousands of posts about these issues. Regardless of how you look at it or what hypothetical situations you think these changes bring amoungst tactics. This Purposed change overall takes away from the game. and adds nothing. This is a big problem and sadly becoming a trend here. Bethhy does have a point here, Cross. It is sorta like my whole thing with the "remove the redline" threads. Doing this to needles is really fixing the "wrong" problem. I use needles quite successfully in FW at least, and I plan to keep at least one fit that still has wiyrkomi's for that purpose alone (otherwise I'm swtiching to scanners ) . I'll tell you right now, the few people who do die quickly after I revive them, a minimum of 75% of the time it's due to technical issues that give time for the enemy to regroup. The room was clear when I hit O the first time, but by the fourth damn time I hit it, and the second time through the animation, it's not anymore. As for the shotgun kill-revive grieifing, changing the kill screen and speeding up the time it takes for the bleedout or "punish" button to show up would take care of that. Otherwise, I honestly do see this change in large part to be pandering to the KDR kittens. Which, as I noted before, could still be placated with a bleedout button, leaving the default option as being revivable. But, we will see. Maybe this will incentivize coordinated play, maybe it won't. Hopefully we won't need to wait for another full patch to change it back if it does really kill needles. Call me obtuse but this all really seems less like "having a point here" and more like "a whole lot of fuss over a single extra button push". Either your squad mates want to be revived, and they push the button, or they don't and thus they won't. That's the mechanical change. In coordinated play the only impact this has is the time it takes for the downed merc to press a button. Is that time even 3 full seconds, is it even 2? Objecting to this change on the grounds that other things with revives are broken (such as the terrible animation sequence, which takes way too long, or the ghost icons, or the awful kdr stat, or the multiple failed injections) isn't logical or constructive. It isn't the 3 seconds or less impact that the 1.9 changes cause which hurts revive game play, it is the other persistent issues which need a resolution. Attention focused on the minutia here is attention that isn't getting focused on fixes for the more burdensome problems. This is very much a "the rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated" style situation. Honestly, if given the choice would you rather keep things in a pre-1.9 state or have "request revive" in and those listed bugs resolved? Which would create the better net state for injectors? Food for thought ~Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3723	Posted - 2014.11.05 01:01:00 - [150] - Quote Doshneil Antaro wrote: R.I.P. needles, I have had 0 chances to revive anyone yet. Welcome to Scans 514. Its your fault CCP, we offered better fixes that would add to this game, but instead your funneling logis away from medic roles and forcing us into slayer roles. I've been playing all day today, I've seen scans deployed in 4 matches total (2 of which were by my squad upon request for same). My squad has been using revives with the same efficacy as ever during these matches as well and beyond that I have somewhere in the mid teens when it comes to "blue dots revived". The Logi need some real love, they needed ti before this change, and they need it after. Same story with the injector, the major elements of the situation haven't been impacted by this single alteration. Finn Colman wrote: I think that requesting revives being required to get picked up is not really the best option For those keeping score at home I actually agree with this statement. There are likely better options and more elegant ways to address the situation, there are also far more significant aspects of support, logistics, injectors, revives etc to address than the "request" sub issue. Any chance we can focus on the big stuff first and revisit this later if it seems necessary once the long standing persistent issues are resolved? I am all for discussion but this honestly seems like more of a distraction than a discussion. If we revert these changes, and yet still have the many bugs linked to revives they won't be in a solid state. Maybe I'm alone in this but that seems like a rather high price to pay for the trivial time involved in a single extra push of a button. See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)

Doshneil Antaro Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 292	Posted - 2014.11.05 02:05:00 - [151] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Doshneil Antaro wrote: R.I.P. needles, I have had 0 chances to revive anyone yet. Welcome to Scans 514. Its your fault CCP, we offered better fixes that would add to this game, but instead your funneling logis away from medic roles and forcing us into slayer roles. I've been playing all day today, I've seen scans deployed in 4 matches total (2 of which were by my squad upon request for same). My squad has been using revives with the same efficacy as ever during these matches as well and beyond that I have somewhere in the mid teens when it comes to "blue dots revived". The Logi need some real love, they needed ti before this change, and they need it after. Same story with the injector, the major elements of the situation haven't been impacted by this single alteration. Finn Colman wrote: I think that requesting revives being required to get picked up is not really the best option For those keeping score at home I actually agree with this statement. There are likely better options and more elegant ways to address the situation, there are also far more significant aspects of support, logistics, injectors, revives etc to address than the "request" sub issue. Any chance we can focus on the big stuff first and revisit this later if it seems necessary once the long standing persistent issues are resolved? I am all for discussion but this honestly seems like more of a distraction than a discussion. If we revert these changes, and yet still have the many bugs linked to revives they won't be in a solid state. Maybe I'm alone in this but that seems like a rather high price to pay for the trivial time involved in a single extra push of a button. inside squad yes there still can be opportunities to needle, outside of squad I have seen none. Doesn't matter to me though, as I've already moved on to a more suitable load out void of medic equipment save my own triage hive. Sage /thread
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 435	Posted - 2014.11.08 16:26:00 - [152] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Bradric Banewolf wrote: Bethhy wrote: If every Dust player now has to hit a button to even get picked up or to even have the option to get picked up all of DUST will suffer. Your Clone doesn't technically belong to you... It belongs to the team as a whole. When your clone gets picked up off the floor, You didn't loose a clone... therefore your deaths should be -1. When Mercenaries are no longer pressing a revive button there will be no point in ever fitting a Nanite Injector. Making The "Needle" Obsolete in the game of DUST. This will hurt the Logi class, Teamwork, Immersion, tactics, gameplay... And clutch games that come down to clone counts(Skirm,Dom). It screaaaams of it being a giant LAZY fix for an issue we have had since Beta..... Please.... Pleaseee..... Figure out another option. This fix I fear will do more harm to the whole of the game to help an individual feel better about their K/D. Its crazy. It's all about choice. You guys that are against it I don't understand. If I can clearly see that I died, and was too far behind enemy lines I'm not going to request assistance. Some guys will pick you up for their own warpoints knowing full well they have not secured a successful rez by killing the enemy in the area. Is that not the same thing as guys who covet their kd? There are some logi wh*re's in this game that will rep you with bs rep tools, rez you with sh!t needles, and will bring militia nanohives to a gun fight for the points and isk?! I don't want some amateur rezzing me and getting me isnta-killed multiple times?! I should be able to make that choice. If I equip a needle, and no request help cool. I die less trying to get there. Same goes for vehicle locks. There should be an option to lock and unlock vehicles at will. Simple. I am pro choice when it comes to this game. Things that force me to play a certain way is why I don't play other games. I shouldn't be forced to get picked up in sh!tty situations because some novice is running the medic starter fit?! I shouldn't be forced to deal with some academy graduate riding around in my tank because I can't kick him. I don't know why logis with absolutely no intention of shooting anyone want to pick guys up anyway?! Something killed that guy, and there's a good chance he still around. That's why I run my needle on commandos and assaults. So I can eliminate the threat then protect my teammate once I rez him. I'm rocking 600-1100 ehp on those dropsuits. Not 400 or less?! If you're not gonna shoot don't rock needles! The best Logi's in the game get 3-6k+ war points and kill maybe 2 people.... Better ones sit at 0/0 with 5200+ war points. Those players win matches. Period. No player that plays this game knows 100% where the enemy is, Or if they are coming around a corner while your engaging your nanite injector... It doesn't matter how good you are at this game. The mere fact that this is such a huge issue for nearly every player that has something negative to say about nanite injectors should prove more then enough that it is the way Neede mechanics have worked in this game... Not the action of being picked up. The scenario's where your have Newbies running around and picking team mates up to gain war points and level up is done in many FPS's... Planetside 2 for example... New players are encouraged to go medic and support their team as they start to learn the game and gain XP. They run around and pick people up and repair them... This adds to the entire game, Makes huge epic fire fights... Creates lasting friendships and acquaintances and truly added to the feeling that the Battlefield... Is a battlefield. Battlefield franchise does the same thing with picking up team mates. -1 death.. Adds to the entire game... Creates avenues new players can contribute without being one of the best slayers, days or even months into the title.. -1 death adds to games. with countless examples and working ones right now... Allowing you to revive all your team mates all the time., Adds to the entire match and game... In DUST it goes one step further... It makes Sense with the story of the game. "Amateur's rezzing" you, would be generally a benefit for all parties. Instead "Screw everyone rezzing me" Which only will ever benefit a small group of players at the expense of the overall gameplay. You're proving my point. I don't think you realize it though. "Anybody order chaos?"
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 435	Posted - 2014.11.08 16:51:00 - [153] - Quote Holy shitte! Logi Bros haven't even listed any of the actual problems here. They just want free reign to war point farm, and that's why no one is listening?! You sound like tankers, pilots, and snipers right now?! "Gimme back my crutch because as f-ed up as it was mechanically I benefited so screw everyone else" No complaints from you lot about the broken mechanics of the needle as Cross Atu, and so many others have pointed out?! Ya know, the ghost needle, the rolling body that can't be revived, or the slow revival mechanic that allows you to be on the revive objective far too long! Nope! Just let me run wild in ambush with other mercs k/d. I have yet to actually play 1.9 as it is currently downloading, and I've been in the field for a week. I'm sure with time mercs will adjust to the way this new mechanic works, and start requesting pickups more often. Especially if they're in expensive suits! Before we condemn this new option to not be insta-killed by the combined efforts of bad amateur team mates and the red team. Can we let the devs fix the rest of the needle issues, and see if that will help? Once the real issues, which none of you mentioned, are gone mercs will probably be willing to let you rez them. Also, this is now a two merc observation now. The downed merc knows what kind of situation he was in when he went down. Calling for help in a full blown death trap will probably just get another merc killed trying to get him up. Consider that as well logis. Now you and the downed merc can both quickly assess the situation. Respect his observation of the situation. If he hits the "get me bro" button that's exactly what he is doing for you! As for me I am not a merc that cares much about k/d so just for you logibros I will be button mashing with the best of em, and carrying 80-100% needles on my proto commando and assault! We will sort it out guys. This is a good thing overall give it time. o7 "Anybody order chaos?"
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4696	Posted - 2014.11.08 16:59:00 - [154] - Quote Oh the REASONS for the thing are valid. The idiocy of how most revives happen is truly some straight up special education crap right there. Arguing KDR as having value other than for ego stroking is the long and short of my problem here. As fun as it was to make people scream, needlef*cking needed to get dumped. Off to find the next broken mechanics to bring to CCP's attention. Getting the game fixed one mad pubbie at a time. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2487	Posted - 2014.11.18 14:46:00 - [155] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Oh the REASONS for the thing are valid. The idiocy of how most revives happen is truly some straight up special education crap right there. Arguing KDR as having value other than for ego stroking is the long and short of my problem here. As fun as it was to make people scream, needlef*cking needed to get dumped. Off to find the next broken mechanics to bring to CCP's attention. Getting the game fixed one mad pubbie at a time. Needle spamming only happened because of poor mechanics setup around the item that has been told and warned to CCP for well over 2 years. There is nothing new with what you are claiming... There is nothing new with that problem. What we did is effectively kill the need for anyone to fit a needle on a suit... And made the item completely useless unless you have a Mic and spend alot of time talking with your squad about even fitting the damn needle and then when you do? People just respawn anyway because no one ever has a needle anyway and this poor habit has been perpetuated by CCP's nerfs. Reviving in Battlefield is amazing gameplay and can add to eveyone's experience... It does nothing but Add to the game. And that is a simplistic role based game where DUST has a complex Medic and support structure... What we have effectively done with these changes is remove and take away from the game of DUST... for what? What really have we gained? I only see Loss. We have done nothing but remove something that could of been great for the sake of the poor experiences encompassed by a poor mechanic that CCP has known about for years. It's truly sad.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4571	Posted - 2014.11.18 16:36:00 - [156] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: Holy shitte! Logi Bros haven't even listed any of the actual problems here. They just want free reign to war point farm, and that's why no one is listening?! You sound like tankers, pilots, and snipers right now?! "Gimme back my crutch because as f-ed up as it was mechanically I benefited so screw everyone else" No complaints from you lot about the broken mechanics of the needle as Cross Atu, and so many others have pointed out?! Ya know, the ghost needle, the rolling body that can't be revived, or the slow revival mechanic that allows you to be on the revive objective far too long! Nope! Just let me run wild in ambush with other mercs k/d. I have yet to actually play 1.9 as it is currently downloading, and I've been in the field for a week. I'm sure with time mercs will adjust to the way this new mechanic works, and start requesting pickups more often. Especially if they're in expensive suits! Before we condemn this new option to not be insta-killed by the combined efforts of bad amateur team mates and the red team. Can we let the devs fix the rest of the needle issues, and see if that will help? Once the real issues, which none of you mentioned, are gone mercs will probably be willing to let you rez them. Also, this is now a two merc observation now. The downed merc knows what kind of situation he was in when he went down. Calling for help in a full blown death trap will probably just get another merc killed trying to get him up. Consider that as well logis. Now you and the downed merc can both quickly assess the situation. Respect his observation of the situation. If he hits the "get me bro" button that's exactly what he is doing for you! As for me I am not a merc that cares much about k/d so just for you logibros I will be button mashing with the best of em, and carrying 80-100% needles on my proto commando and assault! We will sort it out guys. This is a good thing overall give it time. o7 I still don't get the argument about WP farming. You only get WP the first time you do it, there's no advantage to be gained doing it a second time from the logi's perspective. The opposite, if anything, if they got killed so can you so why even do it again, you're risking yourself for no WP. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Funkmaster Whale Whale Pod 2495	Posted - 2014.11.18 21:05:00 - [157] - Quote Not counting a death until your clone has been destroyed would actually make me ask for revives. Until then I'll never ask for revives. Follow me on Twitch.tv!
Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 186	Posted - 2014.11.18 23:12:00 - [158] - Quote Please add the text: PUSH X TO CALL FOR HELP / LEFT-CLICK TO CALL FOR HELP right under clone termination timer. This solves the newberry issue nicely and actually matches many other FPS games in mechanics to help the player realize they have control over this situation. Give it a shot.
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 2093	Posted - 2014.11.19 00:03:00 - [159] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Kevall Longstride wrote: Removal of exploitable/griefing mechanic > than retention of lore. Needlef'ing is an extremely annoying place to find yourself and must be eliminated. It's not the perfect solution and needs iteration but it couldn't be allowed to continue. why not remove the "score penalty" and add a refuse revive button. much better solution. What happens when you get needled before you tap that reject button Because you wanted to be something you're not. A hero. Do you feel like one now?
Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 292	Posted - 2014.11.19 00:17:00 - [160] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Jack McReady wrote: Kevall Longstride wrote: Removal of exploitable/griefing mechanic > than retention of lore. Needlef'ing is an extremely annoying place to find yourself and must be eliminated. It's not the perfect solution and needs iteration but it couldn't be allowed to continue. why not remove the "score penalty" and add a refuse revive button. much better solution. What happens when you get needled before you tap that reject button You are a bit mad because you wanted to change your suit, but it didnt really matter has it didnt destroy your final score ^^ It may looks stupid, but it's veery true! Take out all forms of scans and you'll see how great Dust can be. Scrubs will cry, good players will love it.

Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1997	Posted - 2014.11.19 00:21:00 - [161] - Quote Bethhy wrote: If every Dust player now has to hit a button to even get picked up or to even have the option to get picked up all of DUST will suffer. Your Clone doesn't technically belong to you... It belongs to the team as a whole. When your clone gets picked up off the floor, You didn't loose a clone... therefore your deaths should be -1. When Mercenaries are no longer pressing a revive button there will be no point in ever fitting a Nanite Injector. Making The "Needle" Obsolete in the game of DUST. This will hurt the Logi class, Teamwork, Immersion, tactics, gameplay... And clutch games that come down to clone counts(Skirm,Dom). It screaaaams of it being a giant LAZY fix for an issue we have had since Beta..... Please.... Pleaseee..... Figure out another option. This fix I fear will do more harm to the whole of the game to help an individual feel better about their K/D. Its crazy. needle change already effected the game negativly.. alot more matches are lost due to being cloned out cause noobs dont press X soon as they drop. [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1999	Posted - 2014.11.19 00:40:00 - [162] - Quote Doshneil Antaro wrote: R.I.P. needles, I have had 0 chances to revive anyone yet. Welcome to Scans 514. Its your fault CCP, we offered better fixes that would add to this game, but instead your funneling logis away from medic roles and forcing us into slayer roles. SCANS (that scouts can still avoid) 514. you mean. [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1999	Posted - 2014.11.19 00:42:00 - [163] - Quote they just need to let needle users stick the dead but the dead do not instantly revive they are then given the option to revive with in 5-10 seconds or redeploy [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2495	Posted - 2014.11.19 03:25:00 - [164] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Bethhy wrote: If every Dust player now has to hit a button to even get picked up or to even have the option to get picked up all of DUST will suffer. Your Clone doesn't technically belong to you... It belongs to the team as a whole. When your clone gets picked up off the floor, You didn't loose a clone... therefore your deaths should be -1. When Mercenaries are no longer pressing a revive button there will be no point in ever fitting a Nanite Injector. Making The "Needle" Obsolete in the game of DUST. This will hurt the Logi class, Teamwork, Immersion, tactics, gameplay... And clutch games that come down to clone counts(Skirm,Dom). It screaaaams of it being a giant LAZY fix for an issue we have had since Beta..... Please.... Pleaseee..... Figure out another option. This fix I fear will do more harm to the whole of the game to help an individual feel better about their K/D. Its crazy. needle change already effected the game negativly.. alot more matches are lost due to being cloned out cause noobs dont press X soon as they drop. this post was created a week before Rattati implemented the changes, I warned this would happen and everyone argued about some hypothetical situation where already non communicating blueberry's will magically be transported to a DUST utopia where rainbows and and lolipops are frequent sights. As predicted by anyone talking about broken needle mechanics for 2 years this has been a problem, these changes obsoleted needle use and ruined an extremely valuable gameplay for the sake of a broken mechanic CCP created through continued development and neglect.
dreth longbow Bank of DUST 514 51	Posted - 2014.11.19 03:57:00 - [165] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: I definitely would prefer an accept/reject revive button, as I've said many times. Though this is better than doing nothing. The way nanite injectors previously worked is arguably a form of abusive gameplay, because it allowed other players to effectively take control of your character. This says it all, put it back the way it was with an accept/reject so some fool does not keep sticking you with a milita needle at the front line to get points and costing you isk when you keep dying. Problem solved!
dreth longbow Bank of DUST 514 51	Posted - 2014.11.19 04:04:00 - [166] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: I'm not fond of the vehicle locking feature at all, and I do make that clear to CCP when possible. At least, the extent that it makes it hard for me to allow passengers to come with me without wasting precious deployment time. Players absolutely need to be able to decide whether or not they can be picked up though. WHOA, vehicle lock should stay with mods, DO NOT REMOVE! spawn-should be rather fast drop to ground +2-3sec jump out should be longer, time to drop an uplink/hack/fight say around 10-15sec upon death release lock This solves the issue of the lock at the beginning of the drop when you are trying to pick up people and the problem of having passengers and you get out to do something and the ASx HXlX steals your dropship. This week has been terrible for people stealing your vehicles just because. I have lost 5 dropships and around 20 lavs from idiots who think it is cool to steal and cost me when I am laying out droplinks or shooting swarms. CCP should prevent this and help those who are trying to win!
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 404	Posted - 2014.11.19 05:28:00 - [167] - Quote So far I get needled reasonably often when I ask, and never when I dont...can't complain here...
korrah silain True Illuminate 1	Posted - 2014.11.19 06:41:00 - [168] - Quote Personally I like the request requirement. There are so many times when I want to respawn for any number of reasons such as: respawning in a new suit, redeploying elsewhere on the battlefield, etc. Taking that choice out of my hands and giving, no incentivising it is bad design. If you are afraid that people won't ask for the revives we need to incentivise it. Some ideas are: give a brief period of invulnerability on revive to allow for one to achieve tactical awareness...that being said giving a score penalty for dying is silly, dying is already disincentivised by loss of equipment. That being said being revived should not count against your deaths, I believe that tweak alone will get rid of the reluctance to being revived.


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