DUST Search - Needle Changes Will Hurt the Game.

Bethhy wrote:

Breakin Stuff wrote:

Bethhy wrote:

KDR regardless of personal feeling of the stat is present in every game... Even EVE... People actually take the KD/R in EVE very serious....

please tell me how K/D is actually useful in a team game where different roles are going to have wildly differing KD rates (without being a stat padder).

Nothing you said invalidates my statement that it is a useless metric, and just because everyone else measures it doesn't mean that automatically makes it relevant to the overarching meta behind the game.

KDR adds nothing of value to the game besides a measure of PERSONAL kill efficiency that can be artificially brought up by playing nothing but redline sniper for a month. It's a stat padder metric, nothing more, and a risk-aversion metric.

I stand by my statement that i'd rather have five clueless, but willing to learn newbs on my side than an entire TEAM of KDR fanatics. Because I can teach the newbs to kill risk-averse buttheads with high stats and make them ragequit.

The Metric works in EVE. Where destroyed ISK value versus lost value is something that actually matters... As MAKING ISK requires a complete change in activities and hours of time invested back into the process.

KDR has been used and measured by nearly every major corporation that has had competitive aspirations.. It does actually measure something... Regardless of your person feelings.

Yes there are different classes that alter the range in which your KDR is relevant.. As every player and corporation has known and scales for... A Logi isn't held upto the same statistic need as a Assault slayer... Just like a tanker is held differently to a ground soldier...

This is not new in DUST... Nore any game that has come before or after it... Trying to make KDR irrelevant in a game where losses matter will never make sense but for those who get offended by KDR "Padders"

And Please.. Sit in the redline all day and "Pad" your kills... You will be lucky to kill 100 people in a day... Now explain people with 50-100k+ kills and high KDR?.... FOTM, Tankers, Hackers, Glitchers... Like seriously stop buying into the lame forum propaganda and general sweeping statements like KDR "Padders" in the red-line... Like it has any basis in the reality of everyday gameplay in DUST.

Regardless of what happens or personal feelings, Kills and Deaths are gonna be recorded in DUST. Just like they are in EVE, it will always be a statistic... Adding in mroe statistics? Makes sense... Me Personally would love an Accuracy statistic.. Hit box UI that tells you how many headshots you have made... How many times you shot a guy in the left leg....

Statistics in the long big picture of this IP will help EVE Pilots invest and choose the Mercenaries they will want to invest into. Removing the most simplistic and basic one as recording your kills versus deaths is not a big picture problem.

EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4363	Posted - 2014.11.03 12:55:00 - [1] - Quote Remove K/D. Replace with WP/D. Suddenly the entire meta of DUST changes. Too much value is placed on K/D by tryhard corps and because of this the most valuable support roles and the people who are best at them will forever be relegated to crap roles. Most tryhard corps require a minimum k/d. I'll take 15 new people willing to learn over a buncha retards who stat pad to protect their e-peen any day. KDR has no value in a combined arms TEAM game. But entirely too much value is assigned to it. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4364	Posted - 2014.11.03 13:47:00 - [2] - Quote Does not fix. Logis supporting with the beans, bullets and bandaids don't tend to destroy much ISK in enemy equipment. WP/D. ISK destroyed/lost should be a CORP metric, not a merc metric. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4389	Posted - 2014.11.03 18:43:00 - [3] - Quote Bethhy wrote: KDR regardless of personal feeling of the stat is present in every game... Even EVE... People actually take the KD/R in EVE very serious.... please tell me how K/D is actually useful in a team game where different roles are going to have wildly differing KD rates (without being a stat padder). Nothing you said invalidates my statement that it is a useless metric, and just because everyone else measures it doesn't mean that automatically makes it relevant to the overarching meta behind the game. KDR adds nothing of value to the game besides a measure of PERSONAL kill efficiency that can be artificially brought up by playing nothing but redline sniper for a month. It's a stat padder metric, nothing more, and a risk-aversion metric. I stand by my statement that i'd rather have five clueless, but willing to learn newbs on my side than an entire TEAM of KDR fanatics. Because I can teach the newbs to kill risk-averse buttheads with high stats and make them ragequit. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4390	Posted - 2014.11.03 18:59:00 - [4] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Bethhy wrote: KDR regardless of personal feeling of the stat is present in every game... Even EVE... People actually take the KD/R in EVE very serious.... please tell me how K/D is actually useful in a team game where different roles are going to have wildly differing KD rates (without being a stat padder). Nothing you said invalidates my statement that it is a useless metric, and just because everyone else measures it doesn't mean that automatically makes it relevant to the overarching meta behind the game. KDR adds nothing of value to the game besides a measure of PERSONAL kill efficiency that can be artificially brought up by playing nothing but redline sniper for a month. It's a stat padder metric, nothing more, and a risk-aversion metric. I stand by my statement that i'd rather have five clueless, but willing to learn newbs on my side than an entire TEAM of KDR fanatics. Because I can teach the newbs to kill risk-averse buttheads with high stats and make them ragequit. The Metric works in EVE. Where destroyed ISK value versus lost value is something that actually matters... As MAKING ISK requires a complete change in activities and hours of time invested back into the process. KDR has been used and measured by nearly every major corporation that has had competitive aspirations.. It does actually measure something... Regardless of your person feelings. Yes there are different classes that alter the range in which your KDR is relevant.. As every player and corporation has known and scales for... A Logi isn't held upto the same statistic need as a Assault slayer... Just like a tanker is held differently to a ground soldier... This is not new in DUST... Nore any game that has come before or after it... Trying to make KDR irrelevant in a game where losses matter will never make sense but for those who get offended by KDR "Padders" And Please.. Sit in the redline all day and "Pad" your kills... You will be lucky to kill 100 people in a day... Now explain people with 50-100k+ kills and high KDR?.... FOTM, Tankers, Hackers, Glitchers... Like seriously stop buying into the lame forum propaganda and general sweeping statements like KDR "Padders" in the red-line... Like it has any basis in the reality of everyday gameplay in DUST. Regardless of what happens or personal feelings, Kills and Deaths are gonna be recorded in DUST. Just like they are in EVE, it will always be a statistic... Adding in mroe statistics? Makes sense... Me Personally would love an Accuracy statistic.. Hit box UI that tells you how many headshots you have made... How many times you shot a guy in the left leg.... Statistics in the long big picture of this IP will help EVE Pilots invest and choose the Mercenaries they will want to invest into. Removing the most simplistic and basic one as recording your kills versus deaths is not a big picture problem. ISK lost vs ISK destroyed is not KDR. If your ship costs 700,000 ISK and you get destroyed but the enemy uses 700,500 ISK in ammo to kill it, you have won the ISK war. that stat in KDR if it was your first fight would be 0/1. in the ISK war, it would be a positive ratio. ISK killed/lost is a good CORP metric in DUST, but it isn't much more useful on an INDIVIDUAL level because Logis will invariably have the LOWEST and habitual AV will have the highest with assaults and commandos/HMG sentinels being lukewarm at best. WP/D is the best individual metric because it measures contribution to the team in DUST and is more valuable than either of the above. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4392	Posted - 2014.11.03 19:06:00 - [5] - Quote hell, now that I think about it, in EVE you can 100% win the ISK war every time by only flying unmodded rookie ships without implants. the enemy will always expend more ISK killing you than you will expend buying the ship. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4396	Posted - 2014.11.03 19:24:00 - [6] - Quote Elite PvP groups are only a concern when they associate and operate with Pandemic Legion. No one gives a rippling crap about them otherwise, because their relevancy factor is ZERO. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4402	Posted - 2014.11.03 19:40:00 - [7] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Simply going out in EVE to have your killboard be more positive with ISK killed versus ISK lost and basing your opinions on a Pod pilot on that alone is something Goons would do lol. No, actually, not giving a sht about stats on a killboard at all is something Goons would do. If you think KDR was ever a factor in my decisions about who I was taking into a PC or Corp battle with me you're delusional. I've taken a mixed bag of neckbeards of various talent plus 5 rank newbies (less than 2 mil SP at the time) into PC matches and won with them because... GASP* ...people actually followed instructions. they died a lot sure, but damn if the little beggars weren't the most adorable little murder enthusiasts I ever did see. And the newbees kept the goddamned uplinks off my battlefield as I instructed them to, which allowed me to use an AFG as a suppression weapon to keep red dots OUT OF MY ENTRY AREAS in the Orbital artillery map. So tell me. Just how valuable do you think I should believe K/D is? I consider it valueless because experience playing this game has shown me that it is valueless. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4402	Posted - 2014.11.03 19:55:00 - [8] - Quote I'm sorry, back up one minute... What's a CTA? Is this something people who give a crap do? Is it seekrit code for "everyone go ratting at 100% tax so we can pretend to provide an SRP?" Seriously, we don't do CTAs. Ratters can either defend themselves or call for fleet assistance per normal. Most ratters we have can defend themselves. the ones who don't are AFK ratting while their mains are involved with burning down whatever piece of crap space you call home, usually. Or occupying Mordu's Legion missions for the cool profits. Elite PvP... You fly out and kill a few ships. We are bad, but we're organized, and we seem to be winning. TEST alliance please stand up and wave. BOB please make a good showing... oh wait... we kicked you out of your homes. Sorry about that. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4402	Posted - 2014.11.03 19:56:00 - [9] - Quote sir RAVEN WING wrote: Logibro is to heal and revive, just as a heavy is to chase donuts and kill people before they catch it and deny you the sugary goodness, get it? Fixed that for you EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4403	Posted - 2014.11.03 20:11:00 - [10] - Quote Bethhy wrote: I Was there Sounds like a quote that would be picked up from a commercial. 1/10 EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4415	Posted - 2014.11.03 21:30:00 - [11] - Quote hyperbole is the new evidence, didn't you know? Like No f**ks given is the new concern. 5 newbies willing to listen & learn is more valuable than a horde of KDR kiddies. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4696	Posted - 2014.11.08 16:59:00 - [12] - Quote Oh the REASONS for the thing are valid. The idiocy of how most revives happen is truly some straight up special education crap right there. Arguing KDR as having value other than for ego stroking is the long and short of my problem here. As fun as it was to make people scream, needlef*cking needed to get dumped. Off to find the next broken mechanics to bring to CCP's attention. Getting the game fixed one mad pubbie at a time. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.