Honestly, thank you. I will admit I must have been wrong. So while a very few tweaks to the numbers will be required, such as changing the proto active scanners to 25-26 dB rather than 24, the underlying logic of the post I think is solid.

I have just logged in and tested it agaiIn, just as CCP said, scanners now take snapshots of the range that they are pointed at when they activate, this means that you get what you are pointed at. To do this I suicided into the middle of a domination match (where we were getting destroyed) a few times with a 60 degree scanner.

Try maxing your sensitivity; this controls your rotation speed. I'm testing in-game as we speak and getting different results. Using a DS3 at max in-game sensitivity and a Creodron Flux Active Scanner ...

Expectation:
Targets within +/- 45 degrees of center at start-of-scan should blink on TacNet following scan. If "snapshot" works, no other targets should blink on TacNet after scan, whether I rotate while scanning or not.

Observations:
When I hold still while scanning, targets within my 90 degree scan arc pulse on TacNet for 8 seconds following scan. Working as intended. When I rotate while scanning, targets within ~180 degree scan arc pulse on TacNet for 2-3 seconds following scan. Presumably not working as intended, but not as bad as it used to be as visibility duration is now cut short.

---

Wish I had a capture card for you, but these results should easy for you to reproduce. Of note, Haerr suggests that spin-scanning via KB/M yields an even greater scan arc. I've not verified, but I've no reason to doubt Haerr.

I can't get behind anything that will make all scouts visible even when they are making a significant sacrifice to max their dampening. Especially when the only sacrifice the Gal Logi needs to scan them is carry a single piece of equipment.

I don't mind the concept of giving assaults and logis a reason to use EWAR. That is reasonable. Shared passives need to go, and the great majority of players will agree on that.

As a minja, who was not able to play Alpha to Charlie because of EWAR changes that negated my role completely, I cannot get behind any math that doesn't enable a scout to be invisible with significant sacrifice. A scanned scout is a dead scout, period.

If this is intended as a fix for tanked scouts, there are much more precise measures to do so without obliterating all other scouts roles too.

This still gives scout a complete monopoly on EWAR. I would, pwrsonally, much rather ewar be split three fold between each suit tier. Medium gets best scans, scout best dampening, and heavy best scan radii.

See I think this is part of the problem. Thinking that a non-specialized suit should be able to defeat a specialized suit at its own game.

Minmatar scout is NOT a dampening SPECIALIZED suit. The Gallente/Caldari scouts are. The Gallente logi is a SPECIALIZED scanning suit. It SHOULD be able to scan a minmatar/amarr scouts, given adequate skill investment and equipment.

If you look at the interplay here, all scouts can always defeat the active scans of other non-specialized suits, but to beat the specialized suit you need to bring a specialized suit of your own. That's the way balance works.

I am totally open to discussing changes in the individual scanners (like the Creodon Flux is just stupid), but like I said, that should be in a different thread.

Why do you think a a non-specialized suit should be able to defeat a specialized suit?

EDIT: Now if you were to suggest that the person scanning (i.e. lets say a galllogi) should light up on the scout's tacnet when scanned, I would say thats a good idea and makes sense, but I am not sure that is possible without a client update.

I can't get behind anything that will make all scouts visible even when they are making a significant sacrifice to max their dampening. Especially when the only sacrifice the Gal Logi needs to scan them is carry a single piece of equipment.

I don't mind the concept of giving assaults and logis a reason to use EWAR. That is reasonable. Shared passives need to go, and the great majority of players will agree on that.

As a minja, who was not able to play Alpha to Charlie because of EWAR changes that negated my role completely, I cannot get behind any math that doesn't enable a scout to be invisible with significant sacrifice. A scanned scout is a dead scout, period.

If this is intended as a fix for tanked scouts, there are much more precise measures to do so without obliterating all other scouts roles too.

[quote=BL4CKST4R]Further to your suggestion, I think Logi should specialize more in EWAR than Assault.

I respectfully disagree. Assaults should be decent at Ewar with passive scans, while Logi should use scanners for Ewar. This helps distinguish Assaults from Commandos, gives Assaults the option to fit some Ewar instead of just buffer, and allows the Logi to use equipment to support the team with Ewar.

See I think this is part of the problem. Thinking that a non-specialized suit should be able to defeat a specialized suit at its own game.

Minmatar scout is NOT a dampening SPECIALIZED suit. The Gallente/Caldari scouts are. The Gallente logi is a SPECIALIZED scanning suit. It SHOULD be able to scan a minmatar/amarr scouts, given adequate skill investment and equipment.

If you look at the interplay here, all scouts can always defeat the active scans of other non-specialized suits, but to beat the specialized suit you need to bring a specialized suit of your own. That's the way balance works.

I am totally open to discussing changes in the individual scanners (like the Creodon Flux is just stupid), but like I said, that should be in a different thread.

Why do you think a a non-specialized suit should be able to defeat a specialized suit?

EDIT: Now if you were to suggest that the person scanning (i.e. lets say a galllogi) should light up on the scout's tacnet when scanned, I would say thats a good idea and makes sense, but I am not sure that is possible without a client update.

Oh and one last thing, for this to work cloaks should give no dampening bonus. It actually never made sense why they would do any but INCREASE your profile anyway.

I agree that Passive Scans should not be shared on the Tac-Net.

However, I think visual scans should be shared. When you aim near an enemy (enough to get their health bar to display) their position should be shared on the Tac-Net, and it should continue to be shared until you lose visual contact. This would allow Scouts to more actively play their GÇ£ScoutGÇ¥ role, by pointing their weapon at enemies to let their squad know the enemyGÇÖs position. It would also give Snipers back their over-watch role.

Active scanners should be shared. Now that we got rid of the 360 scans, I think that should work.

All scouts should be visible at some point, otherwise how do we stop the ninja shotgun bs that ruins games when someone uses it?

Do you like having someone running around who cant be seen or detected in any way who can also one shot the vast majority of suits?

Do you think its fair or good gameplay that the only "counter" to invisible one shotting scouts is to also run a damped scout and depend on dumb luck for him to run into your vision before you run into his? Then half the time when he does run into your vision your own weapons fire makes it very likely that he can evade you just due to weapon flash making the stupidly variable cloak effect practically invisible for long enough for him to slip away?

Also that "sacrifice" dampening/cloaking suits make is no sacrifice at all. You are sacrificing survivability for MORE SURVIVABILITY. That's not a sacrifice, its an investment.

Also I disagree that passive scans shouldnt be shared. Passive scan fits actually sacrifice a great deal more than damp fits, because they can be easily detected by anyone and have very low hp values at the same time. Passive scans can frequently be outdpsed and out healthed by comparable dampening suits.

The all or nothing EWAR we have now is the real reason we cant balance EWAR right now, if you see my post above thats an actual workable fix that puts a mechanics based counter to shotgun cloakers and at the same time gives damp/cloak scouts the ability to minimize the vulnerability the precision counter inflicts on them.

I want to emphasize that there is NO COUNTER to a scout using cloaks and dampeners in the game right now that isnt using the same fit and depending on dumb luck.

Or, in the case where my previous post makes little difference you could do this:

Reduce the alpha of shotguns. Do this by:

Reduce damage
Increase range
Increase rate of fire
Increase clip size
Increase reload speed

Bonus effects:

Shotguns viable on assaults
Nova Knives take their rightful place as the sneaky assassin weapon of choice.

Extra note:

Anyone that wants to nerf nova knives can (commence ban evasion) receive a stern telling off and mild humiliation on the internet.