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Samahiel
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
88
   |
Posted - 2014.02.05 22:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
As an EVE player it occasionally becomes apparent that you are playing two games.
One is couched in the nuts and bolts of the EVE client interface. ItGÇÖs a game of tactical skill, hard won personal experience, and laboriously researched knowledge. ItGÇÖs seen in spread sheets of investments, killboards, and opportunity cost calculations. ItGÇÖs a precisely balanced game of numbers; optimal ranges, transversal velocity, marginal returns, isk.
The other game is much more ephemeral. Often times its not accessed through the EVE client. ItGÇÖs played on skype, on jabber, on comment sections and forums across the internet. The Metagame, is notorious; stories about it have touched the pages of newspapers well outside the sphere of the typical gaming press. ItGÇÖs a game of politics, of subterfuge and morale. ItGÇÖs a capricious, emotional, intensely human experience; and, to the right type of person, there is no other game as rewarding on the market.
DUST 514 needs to become another facet of interaction with the New Eden metagame. A different, but no less legitimate, client through which people can shape the same economy, the same balance of political power, and the same dynamic player driven narratives of the Sandbox.
Almost as importantly the roadmap and philosophical direction behind this design must be clearly and continuously communicated to the playerbase if goodwill is to be preserved for the extended amount of time this will surely take.
Introductions are probably in order. I am the Chief of Operations for the corporation Goonfeet [FEET.] a founding director of the alliance Special Planetary Emergence Response Group [SPERG], and former COO for the defunct corp Immobile Infantry. All in all IGÇÖve been directly responsible for shepherding 500+ autists, try-hards, bads, griefers, scammers, and all around great guys whilst trying to create enough content and structure that none of them should ever have to die alone. Along with our allies and friends in Top Men. [CHRIO] we also represent the dust arm of the CFC an eve coalition of some note.
With the upcoming CPM elections IGÇÖve been holding a number of conversations about the future direction of dust. Where we see it going, itGÇÖs growing pains, itGÇÖs successes. I believe a recent conversation with Kane Spero best reflects the heart of the matter:
Quote:
[10:39:48] Samahiel : We're really worried on our side about Dust.
[10:40:57] Kane Spero: Our side being the Eve side?
[10:41:06] Samahiel : SPERG
[10:41:40] Samahiel : We're worried that a large portion of our remaining active players are motivated by the hope that all of this will one day mean something, and that if CCP doesn't communicate clear public plans at fan fest we'll drop below the critical mass of active players necessary to make playing this game bearable.
[10:42:14] Kane Spero: I hear that.
[...]
[10:42:44] Samahiel : The EVE side is pretty much convinced this game is done design wise, and will never be anything else.
[10:43:15] Kane Spero: Dust is far from being done in terms of its interaction with Eve.
[10:43:22] Samahiel : And that's the one's who aren't outright hostile and feel any integration would be dangerous to EVE.
[10:43:47] Samahiel : If I say that they'll say, "Prove It"
[10:43:52] Samahiel : and they wouldn't be wrong to ask.
[10:44:30] Kane Spero: Well, I unfortunately am not at liberty to "prove it"
[10:44:46] Kane Spero: One of the downsides to being a CPM
[...]
[10:45:47] Kane Spero: A clear and obtainable plan is something I've been professing to CCP that they need
[10:46:22] Kane Spero: Not pie-in-the-sky stuff designed to instill hope and not much more
[10:47:07] Samahiel : It's just galling that Para and I are sitting on top of what should be one of the largest most motivated blocks of players. People who bought merc packs, and aurum boosters, who wanted to believe in CCPs advertising. And all that has been squandered.
[10:48:11] Kane Spero: CCP realizes that they have ****** up I can say that much.
[10:48:58] Kane Spero: I do think that CCP Rogue is passionate and ambitious enough to take Dust into a good direction though
[GǪ]
[10:54:46] Kane Spero: I think one of the biggest issues is that a lot of the examinations have been what can Dust make for Eve so that Eve will care. It really needs to be what can Dust DO for Eve that would make Eve care.
[10:55:24] Samahiel : I think the biggest issue is dust doesn't make or do anything, and we've seen no plans that weren't markers on a whiteboard.
[10:56:21] Kane Spero: People keep thinking if PC made Eve resources that a lot of the issues would be solved, but what really needs to happen is to have Dusters themselves be a resource that Eve uses to accomplish a task.
[10:56:58] Kane Spero: A tool in the toolbox of Eve corporations if you will.
[10:56:59] Samahiel : which is fine, but low level design like this should have been theory crafter, nailed down, iterated on, published for comment, and implemented at launch.
[10:57:17] Kane Spero: Pretty much.
[10:57:18] Samahiel : and if they expect us to wait around for it, they need to make it clear they're moving in a direction.
[...]
[10:59:56] Samahiel : Anyway, If you could pass on our concerns I'd appreciate it.
[11:00:07] Kane Spero: Of course.
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Samahiel
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
88
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 22:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
The grand vision that made DUST 514 such an inspiring and unique property; the narrative that underlies CCPGÇÖs most successful advertising, reflected in their slogans and interviews; Is a dream as yet unrealized. It will continue to be so until a few basic issues are addressed.
Mercenaries must have the ability to participate directly in the eve economy. Players must enjoy some economic and/or political benefit from the appropriate and inspired strategic application of Dust forces.
Meanwhile, to be invested in the dynamic of the player narrative, they must be able to fully participate in the social milieu of New Eden. The individual mercenary must fit seamlessly and purposefully into the the social dynamic of the corporations and alliances of New Eden.
In brief:
1.) Dust players need to be able to buy and sell on the market with an intrinsic scarcity of goods that inspires trade between mercenaries and between mercenaries and capsuleers.
2.) Dust players need to be able to fulfill contracts from Capsuleers that affect the political landscape of Nullsec, the territorial balance of Faction Warfare, and/or the industrial engine of Highsec in a way that is predictable enough to be strategically applied and countered.
3.) Dust players need to be fully integrated into the corp/alliance structure of eve with a full API, robust communication, and a proper mirroring of roles.
These are certainly not the only issues that plague our game. There are issues of balance, of content, and of the monetization and distribution of skill points that pose serious challenges to the development of DUST. The solution to those issues, though, must be informed by and in service to the fundamental and foundational philosophy of DUST as a facet of the New Eden metagame, and the player base needs a constant and concise sense of feedback on our progress towards those goals. |
Fuzzy Jello
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
12
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 22:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
I haven't logged into Dust in months. We need feedback and we want to be involved in the process. It is not appropriate for CCP to put up changes into a patch without informing the general player base before hand to allow for criticism and commentary. Based on that I desire to propose a fourth item be added to Samahiel's list above:
4. Create a Dust 514 Test environment on SiSi and release a downloadable test client for the PS3 to allow players to test out changes much like they are doneso for EVE Online.
Furthermore,
CCP, if money is an issue for you then you should revisit the possibility of offering players an optional subscription plan for their accounts. I.E. sell Dust MLEX (Mercenary License Extensions) on the PSN network market that will provide tons of benefits to their account for 30 days on top of the boosters they already have. Make sure the benefits are worth it, hell even provide passive skill gains on all characters on the account instead of just one.
The sky is the limit and I believe CCP would be surprised how the playerbase would react to paying a small fee for additional benefits to help you as a company fund this project. AURUM is fine and all but some of us would prefer a flat rate with benefits that is optional. |
Sigberct Amni
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
358
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 22:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
Count me as a hanger-on for what dust could be and most certainly not what it is today. Great post samahiel! |
Kain Spero
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
2754
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 22:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
Really important stuff. While the meta and the big picture stuff seem far removed from the day to day issues like server stability and weapon balance they really hold a vital role in capturing the attention of those that would act as enablers and instigators for Dust as both a game and a community.
Without a fun game to keep people interested both in match and out the persistence that Dust proscribes to will end up amounting to an anemic aspect of the game rather than a key part that hooks people and makes them stay with Dust for years.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
|
Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
2484
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 22:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
In short you say a lot of stuff most have been saying for months and months
Guys I think my helmet is stuck.
Guys?
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Fuzzy Jello
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
14
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 22:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:In short you say a lot of stuff most have been saying for months and months
Obviously. It needs to be re-told over and over because our "audience" needs to hear it over and over. |
Samahiel
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
97
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 22:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:In short you say a lot of stuff most have been saying for months and months
Things worth saying, are sometimes worth saying again with emphasis. It's all too easy for the important issues to be drowned out by the mundane and trivial crises of everyday life. |
Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
2485
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 22:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
Fuzzy Jello wrote:Delta 749 wrote:In short you say a lot of stuff most have been saying for months and months Obviously. It needs to be re-told over and over because our "audience" needs to hear it over and over.
Then find a better way to deliver it to your intended which who I assume is CCP rather than preaching to the choir
Not to say everyone should just shut up about it forever but at this point in the game threads like these stand out more as someones turn to feel important rather than as something useful and Im sure something a little more drastic like a bunch of people loudly demanding to know what their plans are in person at fanfest or something without accepting the usual market BS answers would have impact than the drop in the bucket we are reading here
Short version, the forum knows whats up, its time to go big or go home
Guys I think my helmet is stuck.
Guys?
|
Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
676
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 22:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP does need better Relations with the Community, and telling us things they're planning would help that.
DCUO tells people a month or two before they launch a DLC what that DLC has, powers, weapons and content-wise. CCP needs to do the same.
I don't need luck, I have ammo.
Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep.
CEO of We Who Walk Alone
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Hobo on Fire
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
124
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 23:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:
Then find a better way to deliver it to your intended which who I assume is CCP rather than preaching to the choir...
...Short version, the forum knows whats up, its time to go big or go home
Sadly, I don't think the forums are as united on this subject as you believe. Yes, there are plenty of people on here that already know this, you obviously being one of them. There are many more who would be much more interested in this game if it amounted to something more than a generic lobby shooter, and these forums are a better place to start than anywhere else.
This is not a conversation that can be had once and left alone. CCP as a whole (not just the Dust team) needs to be reminded of these issues, and reminded often. The only way to do that is to keep telling them that Dust can be an important part of New Eden.
If we don't keep this conversation going through threads like this one, Dust will just wither on the vine until it dies.. |
Paradoxical Nature
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
58
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 23:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
It might be obvious to say, but an MMO isn't the sum-total of riding out on the MCC and stomping or being stomped in public contracts, faction warfare contracts, or even a Planetary Conquest battles (despite how broken that system is now). An MMO starts with the people playing it. It starts with the communities that are fostered and not considered separate but equal. But, it requires the tools from an open and willing game-design company to do such a thing.
I'm a former EvE Online player from the Ancient Days of Black Screens and Drive-By Doomsdays. I am also, currently, the CEO of Goonfeet [FEET], founding executive of Special Planetary Emergency Response Group [SPERG], former COO of Goonfeet, and former Newbie Director of Immobile Infantry.
It saddens and frustrates me to say, that DUST 514 is a sandbox without sand.
If this is because of a lack of Dev-Time (which says alarming things about CCP Iceland's commitment to this game) or just a lack of knowledge on how to put it together, I can't say. But right now, I can say that EvE Integration is a pie in the sky notion that many on-lookers and observers have already written off as 'never going to happen.' Worse yet, many have already called this game a failure, due to the poor launch of Uprising as well as the stumbles Uprising's subsequent builds have had.
Features this game should have had last year, still have yet to come about:
- 1. A Player Secondary Market. The lack of this has rendered most of PC and even FW as a moot point. Equipment you can't either sell nor use just gets piled up in your personal hanger. Which leads to the secondary point.
- 2. No Corporation Armories. Even if there wasn't a secondary Market, a Corporation Armory could be a point where people can donate their useless salvage for newbies who might need it.
- 3. No API. At this point, saying it will come with CREST is an excuse. A stop gap under the legacy API system should have been used with a plan to grandfather it out once CREST became the new hotness. This would allow COMMUNITIES such as mine and the Mothership of the CFC in general to come together despite what happens in either game.
- 4. Poor Implementation of Corporation Management Tools (Dust Side). If the goal at last year's fanfest was to have DUST corporation/alliances stand on their own feet then the current state of corp tools is inexcusable. Not only do you need an EVE character to properly manage corps and alliances; sometimes they are the only way.
Without these features, how are we supposed to build or even foster community?
The state of this game, as it stands right now -- two to three months to Fanfest, should not be written in Soon (tm) or even Later (tm).
It should be written in absolutes at this point. |
Dexter Peabody
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
86
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 23:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
Even if the links were meaningful, a lot of EVE entities were still interested in running Dust programs as long as the setup could be automated. The lack of an API is such a huge barrier to integration, in terms of both EVE-Dust integration and the meta created by player-driven tools. Look at EVE and imagine where it would be without an API; it would be like 20% the size it is today. |
Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1347
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 23:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
I fully echo the words of my friends, the Goons. This is the stuff that needs to happen. This is the stuff that CCP needs to deliver on. And this is the stuff that CCP absolutely has to demonstrate they can and will deliver on in a transparent way.
Spero is absolutely right that the CPM can't "prove it" in the quoted log. That's CCP's job. And it's a job they haven't done.
A note that I conveyed, is that I've seen CCP Rouge mentioned by multiple CPM as pretty much the DUST messiah. CCP Jesus, in the flesh. But CCP Jesus has not shown he can walk on water, and other than a hello, we haven't even heard from him.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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dent 308
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2380
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 00:02:00 -
[15] - Quote
This is a good thread. The Goons are not alone in these observations as well. We have encountered many of the same issues with both technical details and overall narrative.
In order the beat the drums and muster the troops, I need drums, and a reason to beat them.
Hail Satan
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low genius
The Sound Of Freedom
Renegade Alliance
1221
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 00:33:00 -
[16] - Quote
so this is an 'i'm pretending i'm a big thing' thread? |
Samahiel
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
111
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 00:43:00 -
[17] - Quote
low genius wrote:so this is an 'i'm pretending i'm a big thing' thread?
It's an Icelandic F2P sci-fi shooter on a last gen console. No one here as any delusions of grandeur.
Those of us who are spending time and resources recruiting more than just a couple facebook friends would simply like to know what promises we should or should not make, and on what time frame. |
Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1350
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 00:43:00 -
[18] - Quote
low genius wrote:so this is an 'i'm pretending i'm a big thing' thread?
Probably more a "maybe you don't really know who is a big thing" thing.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Eltra Ardell
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
340
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 00:56:00 -
[19] - Quote
low genius wrote:so this is an 'i'm pretending i'm a big thing' thread?
Only while you're in it.
DUST has a lot of potential, but the cries of the forum users for better balance and better weapons and more dropsuits and more vehicles have deafened CCP and made them lose sight of what matters. They've released patch after patch that only changes the flavor of the game and seems to pacify a small section of the most hardcore DUST players. What they've forgotten is what's already been expounded upon in this thread: DUST is a part of New Eden. Or rather, it should be.
But CCP has elected to offer apologies, tweak numbers, shake up vehicles, and attempt to reach something approaching balance in a game that doesn't have even half of its expected assets in-game and functioning. DUST is not Battlefield. DUST is not Call of Duty. DUST is not lobby shooter 52 for the PS3. DUST is an extension of the EVE universe, the EVE mentality, the EVE community. So why is it that DUST is so segregated and oblivious to EVE? When B-R5 happened, did DUST care? Did DUST even hear about it? And more importantly, did a single person in EVE think about DUST during the several hours the battle raged?
No. Because CCP has contented itself to put forth maintenance patch after maintenance patch, slowly filling in the gaps of the most basic components of the shooter game promised before the release of Uprising instead of keeping EVE and the Sandbox in sight. Despite what the loudest among us might say, the playerbase would put up with minor balance issues and stability if there was more to the game than the lobby and the shooter. EVE players did it for a decade. They've had a universe of thousands of star systems, hundreds of starships, espionage, treason, betrayal, alliances and bonds to forge and break. At the end of the day, the EVE player puts up with black screens, tidi, and the imbalance of the Super Capital because their game isn't the battle on grid. It's the universe they play in.
And DUST has no universe. It never has, and if CCP keeps this up, perhaps it never will. |
Ayures II
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
386
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 01:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
I support this thread. I think the FW district system was a step in the right direction, but it was only one step. |
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Your Absolut End
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
347
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 01:05:00 -
[21] - Quote
I just wanna see the battles matter, and also feel that.
For the last months all what kept me playing was PC because thats the only mode where your actions atleast have some kind of impact. But now that This mode got killed by a bug being in the game for months I only log on to play 2-3 rounda and leave kind of frustrated. I hear other people having the same issues.
I really dont wanna gibe up on this game, but we got promised a meaningful connection to eve and a sandbox where we can leave a trace.
Atm we got ships bombarding the planet which does give you a tactical advantage over the enemy team and which is indeed a good starting point but it just feels to static and lost to make a real connection. I wanna have Eve and Dust guys working together during wars bragging how awesome the fights wrre and how we actually interacted.
Maybe I see that connection as static because I'm not seeing the other side, but I dont want the need to log into the other game, I just wanna feel that connection.
All the FW stats we get presented at the end of a battle are nice to se but in the end I don't really care, no matter how hard and long you fight, you will just join that exact same map, so it doesnt make any difference which race is dominating in space.
FW/PC should feel like epic battles attacking and defending is the point to go. We dont wanna have a neutral map when we own that damned district. It is already oiurs, let the enemys come and try to get it.
Yes we all do know that Dust has a 10 year plan and blah. but we are still working on the core, nearly one year after the official release we're still waiting for content which should have been there from the get go. Racial suits, racial vhicles, that should be in game ages ago.
All the balancing back and forth with only a third of the content was just a huge waste of time like alot of players mentioned multiple times.
I don't know whats going on but I'm playing since exactly 1 year now and it really just starts to get frustrating, on top of that you get to hear ccp is picking up another side project (valkyrie) which only makes you wonder if they definately wanna put this game to the grave and try something new.
I dont want to blame anybody, I don't want to cry, but this is just how it is. I am no developer myself so I have no idea of how long stuff really takes, but as a customer who already put much more money into this game then he should have I just would wish to feel the "crowd control productions" which for me means a n informationflow in both directions.
We need clear and open speaking devs or at least a pr-quater who helps keeping up the ties between community and devs, nobody wants to visit the forums to decrypt some dev posts and guess what he/she might wanna say, we want clear facts for a game we all believe in and we all want to see grow. We are not the enemys, we are here stalking the forums to see this project grow.
"Public-Relations, more important than you would guess. Especially since facebook customers don't want to be consumers, they actually want to engage and feel heard by their trusted company." just a quote from a marketing book I'm reading atm. Let me know if i should borrow it to you guys once i'm done with it
another one bites the Dust...
Born as Kameira, die as Kameira, my life for the Empress!
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Samahiel
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
114
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 01:08:00 -
[22] - Quote
Eltra Ardell wrote: And more importantly, did a single person in EVE think about DUST during the several hours the battle raged?
Well... I did, but that's only cause 10% TiDi gives you a lot of time to polish up Dust newbie guide articles and hurf blurf on jabber. |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2898
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 01:10:00 -
[23] - Quote
The biggest problem is that Dust 514, as it stands, is simply a low player count lobby shooter. There is nothing "EVE-like" about it, at all, besides the window dressing of the poorly implemented SP system that serves no purpose other than to artificially inflate the egos of the people who are bad enough at FPS gaming to actually stick around and play this game as it currently stands.
At this point, it's become abundantly clear that CCP simply doesn't have the technical chops to truly craft a well oiled and enjoyable action FPS title. What we know they are quite good at, is building large and complex political and economic simulations. It's also safe to say that people looking for the cream of the crop FPS experience are just never going to look towards Dust 514 to scratch that itch.
So, to me, the answer seems simply. Instead of spending months upon months tinkering with the deck chairs on a sinking ship, trying to micromanage DPS numbers on rifles and other pointless nonsense, CCP needs to work to make Dust 514 the FPS version of EVE online. We all know no one plays Eve Online for the fast paced twitch gaming, and the people playing Dust 514 aren't playing it because it's the pinnacle of FPS game design. The majority of the player base are simply tolerating the gameplay in hopes that at some point it will "mean something."
As a long time Director for Subdreddit, which is the main Dust 514 arm of TEST, I've seen our numbers dwindle from a time when we had 50-100 online playing Dust 514 at any given time of day, to being lucky to have enough guys online to field more than one squad. There was a time when we were 800 members strong, and our players spent hours discussing how they hoped CCP would implement all of the grand designs we were told to expect.
Now, even our directors pretty much only log in when we feel like taking a break from Minecraft.
So, Samaheil, you and I might be on opposite sides of the fence, but we're still both on the same page. |
Eltra Ardell
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
343
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 01:13:00 -
[24] - Quote
Samahiel wrote:Eltra Ardell wrote: And more importantly, did a single person in EVE think about DUST during the several hours the battle raged? Well... I did, but that's only cause 10% TiDi gives you a lot of time to polish up Dust newbie guide articles and hurf blurf on jabber.
You don't count Samahiel. DUST is almost your not-job. |
Samahiel
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
114
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 01:17:00 -
[25] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:So, Samaheil, you and I might be on opposite sides of the fence, but we're still both on the same page.
I was flying strat ops alongside test before I was shooting them. Alliances and relationships in EVE are fickle. The genius of CCP is that they gave us a wonderful sandbox to ally, betray, shoot, rep, spy on, and make back room deals with each other. In the end we're all just nerds who like our space explosions and laser beams with a side helping of Machiavellian politics. |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2898
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 01:23:00 -
[26] - Quote
Samahiel wrote:Baal Roo wrote:So, Samaheil, you and I might be on opposite sides of the fence, but we're still both on the same page. I was flying strat ops alongside test before I was shooting them. Alliances and relationships in EVE are fickle. The genius of CCP is that they gave us a wonderful sandbox to ally, betray, shoot, rep, spy on, and make back room deals with each other. In the end we're all just nerds who like our space explosions and laser beams with a side helping of Machiavellian politics.
Grrr, GOONS!
Why can't you just let me have my snappy closer? |
Ayures II
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
386
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 01:25:00 -
[27] - Quote
Samahiel wrote:Baal Roo wrote:So, Samaheil, you and I might be on opposite sides of the fence, but we're still both on the same page. I was flying strat ops alongside test before I was shooting them. Alliances and relationships in EVE are fickle. The genius of CCP is that they gave us a wonderful sandbox to ally, betray, shoot, rep, spy on, and make back room deals with each other. In the end we're all just nerds who like our space explosions and laser beams with a side helping of Machiavellian politics.
Fun times. |
Eltra Ardell
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
344
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 01:30:00 -
[28] - Quote
There are no goons. |
Samahiel
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
114
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 01:31:00 -
[29] - Quote
Ayures II wrote:Samahiel wrote:Baal Roo wrote:So, Samaheil, you and I might be on opposite sides of the fence, but we're still both on the same page. I was flying strat ops alongside test before I was shooting them. Alliances and relationships in EVE are fickle. The genius of CCP is that they gave us a wonderful sandbox to ally, betray, shoot, rep, spy on, and make back room deals with each other. In the end we're all just nerds who like our space explosions and laser beams with a side helping of Machiavellian politics. Fun times.
Dingo is one of the best FCs, and I'm super happy he has a harpy fleet up pretty much every day of the week. #RealTalk |
Ayures II
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
387
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 01:37:00 -
[30] - Quote
Samahiel wrote:Ayures II wrote:Samahiel wrote:Baal Roo wrote:So, Samaheil, you and I might be on opposite sides of the fence, but we're still both on the same page. I was flying strat ops alongside test before I was shooting them. Alliances and relationships in EVE are fickle. The genius of CCP is that they gave us a wonderful sandbox to ally, betray, shoot, rep, spy on, and make back room deals with each other. In the end we're all just nerds who like our space explosions and laser beams with a side helping of Machiavellian politics. Fun times. Dingo is one of the best FCs, and I'm super happy he has a harpy fleet up pretty much every day of the week. #RealTalk
brb borrowing :10bux: |
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Paradoxical Nature
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
63
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 01:52:00 -
[31] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:Samahiel wrote:Baal Roo wrote:So, Samaheil, you and I might be on opposite sides of the fence, but we're still both on the same page. I was flying strat ops alongside test before I was shooting them. Alliances and relationships in EVE are fickle. The genius of CCP is that they gave us a wonderful sandbox to ally, betray, shoot, rep, spy on, and make back room deals with each other. In the end we're all just nerds who like our space explosions and laser beams with a side helping of Machiavellian politics. Grrr, GOONS! Why can't you just let me have my snappy closer?
That's just how we roll, you know? |
Kushmir Nadian
Valor Coalition
381
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 02:07:00 -
[32] - Quote
The issue here is one that fans of the game keep bringing up.
We WANT to like the game. We love the hardcore aspects, the customization, the EVE connection, the lore and what it COULD be...but CCP keeps doing things that prevent us from doing so.
One game mode after all this time? Virtually no MMO elements or core foundation? I love the fact that Dust is in constant development but that doesn't mean you don't even attempt to release the game in a finished state.
Replication Veteran. I support Tech De Ra for CPM.
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Akdhar Saif
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
222
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Posted - 2014.02.06 02:23:00 -
[33] - Quote
Fully agree with OP. +1
Hilmar stated recently that they will be focussing on making Dust a great FPS. I think we need to remind him that one of Dust 514s biggest selling point is the fact that it is (supposed to be) happening in New Eden.
I would suggest adding full market interaction but I feel CCP are too scared to do anything involving ISK in case they destabilise EVEs economy. What is left? Interactive PVE? Having Mercs fulfil Capsuleer contracts i.e. clearing out P.I. Installations of Rogue Drones.
How much more "New Stuff" do we have to go through until we can expect such an expansion. They still have to fill out the vehicle tree and add some new dropsuits but do we really have to wait through all of that for meaningful gameplay? |
Prius Vecht
Red and Silver Hand
Amarr Empire
241
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 02:41:00 -
[34] - Quote
TEST and the Goons of one accord? now you've gone and done it, CCP.
A sandbox without sand? totally accurate. The bigger issue is what everyone keeps mentioning regarding how the game simply doesn't feel like New Eden.
1)The MMO aspect of Dust boils down to talking to people in chat rooms. We cant even navigate the local channels. Where are the open social areas where New Eden's finest are famous for backroom deals, betrayal, politics and all the other skullduggery? At the very least give us something to do besides login and wait for a match to start in the lobby.
2) And as one poster mentioned, why the hell do defenders get nuetral maps when defending their own districts? Why cant we explore our land or tour corp HQ? Give players a reason to want to own a sandcastle.
3) Why havent you given players the tools to create their own content yet? bounties anyone? player conflict defines MMOs and when EVE/Dust corps cant create contracts, train their players or properly manage their alliances/corps and the ability to avoid war by district locking is the norm something is amiss. |
Ayures II
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
392
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 02:52:00 -
[35] - Quote
Akdhar Saif wrote:Fully agree with OP. +1
Hilmar stated recently that they will be focussing on making Dust a great FPS. I think we need to remind him that one of Dust 514s biggest selling point is the fact that it is (supposed to be) happening in New Eden.
I would suggest adding full market interaction but I feel CCP are too scared to do anything involving ISK in case they destabilise EVEs economy. What is left? Interactive PVE? Having Mercs fulfil Capsuleer contracts i.e. clearing out P.I. Installations of Rogue Drones.
How much more "New Stuff" do we have to go through until we can expect such an expansion. They still have to fill out the vehicle tree and add some new dropsuits but do we really have to wait through all of that for meaningful gameplay?
An open EVE-DUST market connection wouldn't hurt EVE's economy. It would wreck DUST's, though. All I have to do is put up a sell order of a militia scrambler rifle for 100m or so and have my EVE character buy it. Proto all day every day.
Prius Vecht wrote:TEST and the Goons of one accord? now you've gone and done it, CCP.
When it comes to dealing with CCP's shenanigans, it happens more often than you might think. |
Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
2218
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 02:54:00 -
[36] - Quote
Prius Vecht wrote:TEST and the Goons of one accord? now you've gone and done it, CCP.
A sandbox without sand? totally accurate. The bigger issue is what everyone keeps mentioning regarding how the game simply doesn't feel like New Eden.
1)The MMO aspect of Dust boils down to talking to people in chat rooms. We cant even navigate the local channels. Where are the open social areas where New Eden's finest are famous for backroom deals, betrayal, politics and all the other skullduggery? At the very least give us something to do besides login and wait for a match to start in the lobby.
2) And as one poster mentioned, why the hell do defenders get nuetral maps when defending their own districts? Why cant we explore our land or tour corp HQ? Give players a reason to want to own a sandcastle.
3) Why havent you given players the tools to create their own content yet? bounties anyone? player conflict defines MMOs and when EVE/Dust corps cant create contracts, train their players or properly manage their alliances/corps and the ability to avoid war by district locking is the norm something is amiss.
TEST and Goons fight in game but they want the same things in the end...
Listen
I'll change the song every week
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Eltra Ardell
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
345
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 02:57:00 -
[37] - Quote
Ayures II wrote:
An open EVE-DUST market connection wouldn't hurt EVE's economy. It would wreck DUST's, though. All I have to do is put up a sell order of a militia scrambler rifle for 100m or so and have my EVE character buy it. Proto all day every day.
The way the EVE system is set up, you cannot actually fulfill an order that is higher than the current best price. That method wouldn't work.
CCP needs to realize things have to become bumpy and potentially broken again if they want to mend the bone properly. Link DUST to the EVE market and come up with a hairbrained method of changing DUST payouts. Then work from there. |
Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
2218
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 02:58:00 -
[38] - Quote
Ayures II wrote:[quote=Akdhar Saif]Fully agree with OP. +1
Hilmar stated recently that they will be focussing on making Dust a great FPS. I think we need to remind him that one of Dust 514s biggest selling point is the fact that it is (supposed to be) happening in New Eden.
I would suggest adding full market interaction but I feel CCP are too scared to do anything involving ISK in case they destabilise EVEs economy. What is left? Interactive PVE? Having Mercs fulfil Capsuleer contracts i.e. clearing out P.I. Installations of Rogue Drones.
How much more "New Stuff" do we have to go through until we can expect such an expansion. They still have to fill out the vehicle tree and add some new dropsuits but do we really have to wait through all of that for meaningful gameplay?
An open EVE-DUST market connection wouldn't hurt EVE's economy. It would wreck DUST's, though. All I have to do is put up a sell order of a militia scrambler rifle for 100m or so and have my EVE character buy it. Proto all day every day.
I'd add Items you have to acquire dust side to do industry.
Listen
I'll change the song every week
|
Tolen Rosas
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
320
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 02:59:00 -
[39] - Quote
rings true, OP.
go 2 SA forums, EVE forums or read TM.com or even EN24. the contempt for dust is thick enough to cut with a knife. conversely, people are very excited about EVE valkyrie so it seems ur learning something about quality and delivering on promises, CCP.
its past time 2 get the FPS window into new eden up to par. |
Hobo on Fire
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
127
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 03:00:00 -
[40] - Quote
Prius Vecht wrote:TEST and the Goons of one accord? now you've gone and done it, CCP.
We just want a good game to hate each other in. |
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
10606
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 03:03:00 -
[41] - Quote
I don't have very much experience with EVE outside of just running around by myself in high sec and doing PI hauls through low sec.
People can say what they want about Goonswarm, but aside from Cerebral Wolfs "meltdown", I found Immobile Infantry to be a great corporation to have been in. You guys had a near flawless vehicle reimbursement program basically from day one, and it was really easy to report and receive payment.
Metagame aside, they were pretty much all a great bunch of people to hang out with.
Excellent post OP
o7
Videos / Fiction
Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
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da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
288
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 03:09:00 -
[42] - Quote
The game needs that EVE side in Dust to keep this game interesting because... well that's the only reason most people are here. That link is what makes it unique but that's it, I do agree that the FPS side needs to be worked on also but both need to be worked on a lot now. Without that MMO side there's nothing but a promise from CCP to keep people in the game but with bad FPS mechanics it could keep new people away from dust 514
Don't make it easy for them, take a few down with you.
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Reiki Jubo
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
359
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 03:14:00 -
[43] - Quote
where are the sized battles like Asakai or B-R5RB? one of my biggest issue remains the fact that 16 people can determine who owns a district on a planet in Dust. |
Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1365
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 03:15:00 -
[44] - Quote
Tolen Rosas wrote:go 2 SA forums, EVE forums or read TM.com or even EN24. the contempt for dust is thick enough to cut with a knife. conversely, people are very excited about EVE valkyrie so it seems ur learning something about quality and delivering on promises, CCP.
People were really excited about DUST when it was in development too. CCP does not learn. Valkyrie will fail to deliver on it's promises, and disappoint everyone.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
288
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 03:20:00 -
[45] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Tolen Rosas wrote:go 2 SA forums, EVE forums or read TM.com or even EN24. the contempt for dust is thick enough to cut with a knife. conversely, people are very excited about EVE valkyrie so it seems ur learning something about quality and delivering on promises, CCP. People were really excited about DUST when it was in development too. CCP does not learn. Valkyrie will fail to deliver on it's promises, and disappoint everyone.
I wonder how CCP thinks that working on Valkyrie,EVE,Dust 514 and World of Darkness at the same time is a great idea. Sure they have different teams working on these games but you can only hire so many people for each of these projects. I wonder which team is the biggest, it wouldn't surprise me if Dust 514 has the smallest team working on it.
Don't make it easy for them, take a few down with you.
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1366
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 03:27:00 -
[46] - Quote
I am unsure a lot of forethought goes into CCP decisions. Valkyrie went from "just a little experiment we were messing with and aren't making into a game" to an upcoming product because they won an award at E3 for showing it off.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
288
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 03:30:00 -
[47] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:I am unsure a lot of forethought goes into CCP decisions. Valkyrie went from "just a little experiment we were messing with and aren't making into a game" to an upcoming product because they won an award at E3 for showing it off.
hehehe although that seems stupid this is CCP we are talking about so I find it hard to not be true
Don't make it easy for them, take a few down with you.
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Fuzzy Jello
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
21
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Posted - 2014.02.06 03:43:00 -
[48] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:Fuzzy Jello wrote:Delta 749 wrote:In short you say a lot of stuff most have been saying for months and months Obviously. It needs to be re-told over and over because our "audience" needs to hear it over and over. Then find a better way to deliver it to your intended which who I assume is CCP rather than preaching to the choir Not to say everyone should just shut up about it forever but at this point in the game threads like these stand out more as someones turn to feel important rather than as something useful and Im sure something a little more drastic like a bunch of people loudly demanding to know what their plans are in person at fanfest or something without accepting the usual market BS answers would have impact than the drop in the bucket we are reading here Short version, the forum knows whats up, its time to go big or go home
It's posts like these that I wish CCP had a down vote system for.
-1 |
Dexter Peabody
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
91
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 04:34:00 -
[49] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:So, Samaheil, you and I might be on opposite sides of the fence, but we're still both on the same page.
Dent and I always got a long pretty well, we were both trying to build Dust programs in the two largest alliances in the game. I never had any problem with the Subdreddit guys, even when things went nuts EVE-side. Everyone wants the tools to make integration better, and we're all nerds after all. v0v |
Shion Typhon
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
380
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 04:51:00 -
[50] - Quote
The 800lb gorilla in the room which you didn't really address is the market this game is meant to target.
Yes traditional gamers tend to play many genres; I play, MMOs, FPSs and racing games but when we're talking the big numbers the FPS crowd is, to a large degree, a different set of players than the MMO/sandbox crowd.
They demand radically different things. SP, while familiar to MMO players is an anathema to FPS purists. Map design is a central tenet of FPS design but a throwaway afterthought in Dust. There is a long list of similar issues.
Dust either needs to:
1) Choose between these two groups; or
2) Make a whole string of goddamn brilliant design decisions to reconcile the two sides |
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Sigberct Amni
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
362
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Posted - 2014.02.06 05:16:00 -
[51] - Quote
Shion Typhon wrote:2) Make a whole string of goddamn brilliant design decisions to reconcile the two sides
The game as it stands right now does the lobby shooter aspect mostly fine. We can argue balance, playing SP catch-up or P2W of boosters but the fact of the matter is this:
New players can kill proto'd out veterans (with lots of dieing inbetween kills)
The string of brilliant design decisions was already made and has yet to be realized. It was all that hurf blurf during last fanfest about 'showing other FPS players the prison they are in.' He means making the metagame as described in the OP a real thing to care about. It's been just about a year since official release and our metagame is pathetic. The planetary conquest that no eve player cares about at all. Full stop. Only dust players that care are the forum warriors and those that are churning out free isk with perpetual district locks.
CCP has begged for patience in this but we have been patient. Things are looking up with 1.5, 1.6,1.7 and 1.8 but how much more patience is required CCP? Do you have a roadmap that ends with dust having a metagame that isn't a joke? I love reading about Asakai, HED-GP, B-R and the like.
When is it our turn to say "I was there?" Don't tell us SoonGäó anymore. Get out a map and put an X on it. That X could be in 2016, but put it down and commit to it. Hate on planetside 2 all you want but they have a roadmap and things on it sometimes don't get pushed back and happen. I'd be playing that if only they'd start introducing new content instead of shuffling around the old crap. |
Hobo on Fire
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
132
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 05:29:00 -
[52] - Quote
Shion Typhon wrote:The 800lb gorilla in the room which you didn't really address is the market this game is meant to target.
Yes traditional gamers tend to play many genres; I play, MMOs, FPSs and racing games but when we're talking the big numbers the FPS crowd is, to a large degree, a different set of players than the MMO/sandbox crowd.
They demand radically different things. SP, while familiar to MMO players is an anathema to FPS purists. Map design is a central tenet of FPS design but a throwaway afterthought in Dust. There is a long list of similar issues.
Dust either needs to:
1) Choose between these two groups; or
2) Make a whole string of goddamn brilliant design decisions to reconcile the two sides
I would argue that if CCP did manage to implement a real, meaningful connection that had an influence in New Eden, it would qualify as a brilliant design decision.
We already have a platform where console FPS players are interacting with PC gamers in internet spaceships... its already an awesome gimmick, but as of right now that interaction is too limited to be marketable and allow Dust to succeed.
With that said, CCP doesn't have the resources to create an AAA shooter that could truly compete with the likes of Battlefield or Call of Duty. On the other hand, Eve is an undeniable success on the MMO market. If CCP has to choose between making Dust a better FPS or a better MMO, I really hope they stick with what they're good at. |
Zohar Colichemarde
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
9
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 05:35:00 -
[53] - Quote
One thing that's concerned me since Day 1 is Sony's involvement in this whole hot mess. How much control do they have over what CCP can and cannot say and do over a game on their platform? What are the legal issues going on behind the scenes? Is all the radio silence the result of a skewed contract between Sony and CCP?
You're not buying Aurum straight from CCP, folks. You need PSN Dollars to do that. |
Shion Typhon
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
380
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 05:48:00 -
[54] - Quote
Hobo on Fire wrote:Shion Typhon wrote:
Dust either needs to:
1) Choose between these two groups; or
2) Make a whole string of goddamn brilliant design decisions to reconcile the two sides
I would argue that if CCP did manage to implement a real, meaningful connection that had an influence in New Eden, it would qualify as a brilliant design decision. We already have a platform where console FPS players are interacting with PC gamers in internet spaceships... its already an awesome gimmick, but as of right now that interaction is too limited to be marketable and allow Dust to succeed. With that said, CCP doesn't have the resources to create an AAA shooter that could truly compete with the likes of Battlefield or Call of Duty. On the other hand, Eve is an undeniable success on the MMO market. If CCP has to choose between making Dust a better FPS or a better MMO, I really hope they stick with what they're good at.
My personal belief is they would be better off trying to make this a semi-persistent RPG with guns tying into Planetary Management and FW in EVE. Appeal to the RPG crowds and stop making a poor-man's FPS.
If they REALLY wanted to do that then the maps need to become partly persistent in some way and with much larger player counts which means moving to PS4 or PC because the PS3 just isn't really (MAG notwithstanding) designed for that sort of game.
Just my preference and clearly not everyone would agree. |
Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1629
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 06:36:00 -
[55] - Quote
I've been saying from day one that they need to focus on the link once the game was in a playable state with enough gear for interesting fitting choices. The fact of the matter is that it isn't reasonable to expect dust to blow call of duty or battlefield out of the water as a straight up shooter. Those games have way more money and shooter development expertise behind them. CCPs expertise is in creating games that give the player a strong sense of risk vs reward, with tight social components and the tools needed for drama and intrigue. Properly develop that and other shooters won't even be competitors, because it will be at a fundamental level a different type of game. As long as the shooter mechanics and content aren't atrocious people will overlook that, because those things have little to do with the promise that dust has been trying to deliver on.
You should always emphasize what you're good at and do just enough of the other stuff to get by. Kinda like how you always armor tank a gal logi or an archon. You can try to shield tank them, but in doing so you're giving up your advantages. |
Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
1532
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 07:01:00 -
[56] - Quote
Samahiel wrote:Delta 749 wrote:In short you say a lot of stuff most have been saying for months and months Things worth saying, are sometimes worth saying again with emphasis. It's all too easy for the important issues to be drowned out by the mundane and trivial crises of everyday life.
Good stuff Samahiel - this also reminded me of many similar heartfelt appeals for a better process that so many of us(and too many who have left) posted as far back as June 2012.
In all fairness and with no acrimony i am comfortable saying that from where i stand not a lot has changed. We have the tentative assurances of the CPM that things may be looking up - I have a lot of respect for the CPM and i'm willing to take their assurances on faith based on that respect. But at this point that's all it is: faith.
The problems that DUST faces are not insurmountable. There are so many ways in which EVE and DUST can be relevant to each other that creating meaningful content that stokes the metagame furnaces is not a concern.
The concern is what is standing between DUST as it is and that meaningful content. And imo it is that the nuts and bolts core mechanics and systems that this MMOFPS needs are either broken/underperforming or not in place at all. That's just my opinion and not an argument i'm looking to introduce to this thread.
Right now i believe it all comes down to one question: Why are new players leaving DUST so early? The answers, and there are several, to that question should form our list of priorities for what DUST needs to address before it can even dream of all that romantic higher-level content.
I support SP rollover.
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Serimos Haeraven
The Exemplars
Top Men.
645
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Posted - 2014.02.06 07:04:00 -
[57] - Quote
This thread is pretty much jam-packed with absolute win. Everything is so on-point and true I don't even know how to make a comment that could add to what has been said.
Tankers are being diagnosed with a new disease; Cancer of the Assault Dropship.
Many of them don't survive.
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Maken Tosch
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
6732
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 07:55:00 -
[58] - Quote
I agree with everything mentioned in the OP.
Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer
CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD
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Heinz Doofenshertz
BetaMax.
656
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 08:41:00 -
[59] - Quote
Fuzzy Jello wrote:
4. Create a Dust 514 Test environment on SiSi and release a downloadable test client for the PS3 to allow players to test out changes much like they are doneso for EVE Online.
I'm going to speak to this part of the topic first. There are many reasons this is not possible, the largest of which any content that goes out to the retail market, even in a est client must pass sony QA. There would have to be a second dust client, Singularity isn't always the main eve test server, such as now when it is running a mirror of the live server 1.1 update for further testing there. most builds sent to singularity are merged sections of code that may not always be stable. There is also no way to tell with constant new builds being placed on the test server if it would brick a ps3, or if a change made yesterday to a dust asset is affecting the new features being tested on the EVE side.
to summerize, it's just not possible in the current landscape of the sony enviroment.
Samahiel wrote:
1.) Dust players need to be able to buy and sell on the market with an intrinsic scarcity of goods that inspires trade between mercenaries and between mercenaries and capsuleers.
2.) Dust players need to be able to fulfill contracts from Capsuleers that affect the political landscape of Nullsec, the territorial balance of Faction Warfare, and/or the industrial engine of Highsec in a way that is predictable enough to be strategically applied and countered.
3.) Dust players need to be fully integrated into the corp/alliance structure of eve with a full API, robust communication, and a proper mirroring of roles.
1 I agree completely the need for the full player market with industry and production is needed to make the loss of suits have impact.
2 I again Agree Completely. bunnies need to have a use for most of new eden before most of the EVE players will begin to accept their presence. a lack of this will just make the EVE players feel this is something like walking in stations.
3. I agree in part, the parts being integration and roles. comms are either an out of game integration issue on managment of those groups or a lack of foresight. I agree that things like mailing lists and bulletins should have been added as well. The API is a completely different matter.
I speak with and complain about the lack of support daily with Nullarbor, Foxfour, and PrismX, PrismX who is currently leading the team supporting the API systems. There are more problems in the API both on the server side and on the access side that prevent proper use by third parties than just a lack of endpoints. and While everyone says give it to us now, Crest is the option that we need in this. there is possibly some help coming in that in the next few weeks a new endpoint for the api is being released, maybe, that will allow you to pull merc's corp affiliation live without scraping. However the API calls for the Character sheet are really not setup to handle the data from a bunny, and rewriting them just isn't an option at this point.
But who am I, I'm nobody, just a guy who runs some small nothing site. I'm not CPM, I don't want to be CPM, I just want what's best for this game. I will tell you this I have been working on third party tools for dust longer than anyone. mine are not great, and look like crap, but I have been working with the dust side of the API for almost two years now. So take that for what you will.
Also while I'm fine with convo posts, but their validity is something that has no merrit. if you are going to edit it, edit it, take out the time stamps take out the breaks in lines and thoughts. and the ...'s showing you cut things just make people wonder what you cut.
Dust514 Stats, Have you updated today?
I do maths, and sit in a corner.
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Argo Filch
Cannonfodder PMC
69
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Posted - 2014.02.06 11:10:00 -
[60] - Quote
Just read the OPs posts. Honestly.... nothing said in this thread wasn`t said a bajillion gajillion million times before... But i comment you OP for trying again...
There`s a reason why i haven`t played world of dust tanks since 1.7 hit and was not having much fun with the game since about 1.5... |
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1847
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 11:26:00 -
[61] - Quote
Very Very Very True.
No matter how balanced or full of content this game is unless the Meta is there, it will be nothing more than an empty shell of a lobby shooter.
When I joined DUST I envisaged Clone Jumping across galaxies, I saw myself being an being armed response for Drone Infestations, I saw myself being a Path Finder through immensely complex Jovian Ruins. I saw myself commiting sabotage on space stations on ground facilities and maybe even EvE spaceships.
I imagined fighting fiercely for land that would not be mine, for land that would be mine. I envisaged myself being approched by EvE pilots to fufill these contracts, double dealinhg behind their backs, I saw myself racking up a bounty from the Corporations and Alliances who's truct I had betrayed, I saw myself joining and leaving Corporations at will particpating in a grimy undrworld buying out soilders on the other side. I imagined Skyfire Cannons and Orbitals suddenly changing there targeting as I bought the player controlling them.
I saw a game where I could get Involved in a Massive Universe that reacted to my every action, no matter how small.
I am still here, I am still waiting.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Samahiel
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
150
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 13:19:00 -
[62] - Quote
Heinz Doofenshertz wrote: showing you cut things just make people wonder what you cut.
I originally had notes explaining the nature of what was cut, but I was up against a character limitation, and didn't want the quote block continuing into the second post. Briefly, it was a side discussion about the state and politics of planetary conquest and a few lines that mentioned people by name or were redundant. |
lionshead nebula
The Exemplars
Top Men.
4
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 14:27:00 -
[63] - Quote
I agree and support this post. The two things that drew me to this game: 1. Sci-Fi awesomeness and 2. The biggest interactive universe I have participated in (besides reality). I have played dust since Closed Beta and I have kept playing this game based on my hopes in seeing the long term goals fulfilled. And while constant tweaking is always nice, this game will always one thing that appears op or is op, without a known long term goal, without effort to make evident real progress towards achieving the original marketed idea of Dust; this game will wither, our time wasted, and CCP will move on. |
Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
537
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 14:32:00 -
[64] - Quote
Agreed OP, the connection is what makes or breaks the game. Although many people have repeated this over and over, it NEEDS to be said over and over.
In the beginning
When I first heard about this game, it was still in closed beta. I knew of EVE as I had played it back in it's younger years, and knew how awesome EVE was. While EVE never quite clicked for me, I loved the idea of what EVE was. It's like a space simulator, it requires the real input of time to succeed. At the time I played WoW, but I have to say, EVE is better, even if it's not my cup of tea.
So, after reading up on Dust 514 the one thing that stood out among all other, the connection. I thought, no effing way, I dreamed of this as a kid. Games, interconnected across multiple platforms. One universe, each interacting in a different way, but all working to the same goal.
Preperation
So in preparation of Dusts release, I started an EVE character, so that I could get the most out of what I thought would be my new favorite game. My hope was that my EVE pilot would somehow fund my Dust characters actions. Additionally, I looked forward to playing both games at the same time (cause one game at a time is faaar to boring).
Open beta came, and I made a dust char that collected passive until full release in May. When May came around, I was a bit impressed with the overall feel of Dust. I spent most of my time reading through skills, weapons, market, everything, in the beginning. I consistently went negative in EVERY game I played, but it didn't matter. I saw nothing but potential everywhere I looked.
After getting my bearings straight, I sought out a corporation, as in EVE, it's can be important, I figured Dust was the same. As more and more time went on, it all started to hit me. I searched everywhere, asked questions of anyone I could, searched the forums, Dust 514's main web site, everywhere. I was looking for that connection that hooked me into the game. I wanted my EVE character to actually matter Dust side.
The letdown
Man was it a disappointment to find the very thing that I played for was absent. I didn't care much for this suit or that suit or about being good. I played for the connection. After a while I started to realize something, Dust 514 was still in beta. This wasn't the game pitched to me in the beginning. This was just another lobby shooter. RPG style character development and FPS gameplay.
Nothing new there, I've seen more than my fair share of FPS games, and while dust might be a step above them, in essence that is still all that it is. Another FPS, easily forgotten among the sea of FPS games out there. But I can be a patient man so I decided to give Dust the time it needed. I knew of the issues that plagued the game, lag, imbalances, ect. But I also saw the immense potential this game can offer.
The wait
So after the first few patches, I was kinda like WTF. I had never in my life seen patch notes that small. Every single fix in the beginning seemed to be small, minor changes. I used to cling to the forums, checking everyday for the next patch notes, hoping to catch a glimpse of what interested me in the game.
Each patch item, while adding something to the game, were things I felt should have already been a part of the game from the start. Progress was SLOW and excruciating. It was made worse by the fact that I had chosen an incomplete and unbalanced path, vehicles. In particular, the worst of them, the Gunnlogi (ok dropships the worse, sorry lol). And once you are locked in on a path, deviating means losing combat efficiency.
They announced they were looking into vehicles and I was ecstatic, I was like well if I can't have the connection, at least I can have some balanced gameplay. 1.4 came along, nothing. 1.5, 1.6, still nothing. At that point I had very nearly given up on the game. My original corp, was dead at that point. With each new patch, more and more people dropped from the game. Until it was just me. This was a corp made back in closed beta, with some rather good players, people that held the same hope as I did, but were fed up with everything.
At this point I was playing maybe 1 or 2 games a night, if I played at all. To be honest, I was tired of shooting people in the face. It's why I don't play COD anymore, the gameplay is predictable. There is no depth. That is how I felt with Dust 514, but I wasn't quite ready to give up on it just yet.
PC and 1.7
So I join a PC corp, and found some new meaning. This to me was endgame, unlike pub matches. This is where those choices you made actually come to fruition and mean something. It sparked my interest again. Then 1.7 comes along and the "fix" to my tanks was finally here.
Yet I find myself in the same rut I was in before. I'm losing all interest, again. I'm tired of shooting people in the face, over and over again. I'm sick of the continued imbalances. Writing my own feedback, and reading others as well, I wonder. Does CCP ever take note of the player base? Numerous good suggestions are lost on CCP, it seems like they care little for the feedback. While they occasionally note feedback, I never see any of that in the new content.
CCP, do you think I will truly come back to this game 6 months to year down the road after I leave? After all this frustration and waiting, you really think I'm going to come back? The money I spent feels wasted, you really think I'm coming back after you screwed me like this??? While I see hope in the game, I don't see it improving anytime soon. There are bigger and greater things coming along.
My question, will that which sparked mine and everyone elses interested ever come to light. Will Dust ever become what was hyped up on in the beginning in the time that I will remain here? Sadly, I don't think so.
Nuff Said
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
2394
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Posted - 2014.02.06 14:56:00 -
[65] - Quote
In DUST it feels like i am playing a game
In EVE it depends on what you do but it doesnt feel like a game
Interaction between the 2 is minimal, even if i OB for FW doesnt really matter who i do it for, im farming LP anyways, if i play FW in DUST im farming for LP i have no incentive to win in either game except in PC when we did play it but even in PC didnt matter if you didnt have EVE support
Then again in EVE not much incentive to do anything, ive lived in null which i hated, i can deal with high sec alot more and low sec is the best place for a bit of everything but the addition of DUST to EVE doesnt really change anything at this moment in time because both are invisible to each other except on the rare occasions like caladri prime event
When i joined EVE for DUST i was mucking about and finding how it worked, i still do to this day want to make my own equipment for my DUST toon and fund it with my EVE toon, maybe even make it for my corp, maybe even help out EVE side in PC even tho there is no current incentive to do any of this and my current incentive to log on and actually play doesnt exist except to try and remember to add to my skill queue
Instead in EVE i got rich enough to do what i want to right now, i mined enough materials to hopefully make what i need to if it arrives and have a vast array of different things and ships to change up my gameplay as and when i need to but i feel that i have more freedom in DUST than i do in EVE
It seems im waiting for DUST to become apart of EVE
Intelligence is OP
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Justicar Karnellia
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement
Caldari State
613
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Posted - 2014.02.06 15:21:00 -
[66] - Quote
Good post. Your concerns are valid. Of course Dust needs to matter to EVE, but even before that I think that someone who has never heard of EVE and picks up Dust 514 just goes "Wow, this is a great game!" so it has to stand on its own two feet - and to do that, it needs work, a lot of work.... but I think that's a known quantity now. For people who are playing the game now, and who as you say have bought boosters, aurum, etc. (like me), need to know what the roadmap is, and as is so often expressed as a concern by the CPM, it is really like getting blood from a stone - it's so opaque.... |
Philipp Achtel
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
82
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Posted - 2014.02.06 15:45:00 -
[67] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:I don't have very much experience with EVE outside of just running around by myself in high sec and doing PI hauls through low sec.
People can say what they want about Goonswarm, but aside from Cerebral Wolfs "meltdown", I found Immobile Infantry to be a great corporation to have been in. You guys had a near flawless vehicle reimbursement program basically from day one, and it was really easy to report and receive payment.
Metagame aside, they were pretty much all a great bunch of people to hang out with.
Excellent post OP
o7
Where did you go, dust fiend? We were supposed to be dropship buddies! 
On topic, the social aspect is the main thing that drew players to this game. If you want to play a tight console FPS, there are plenty. While I can see the importance of racial parity, it feels like a sideshow to me. Taking planets in nullsec and work with my goon (grrr!) buddies is why i'm here.
Our failed planetary conquest experiment has shown that half measures don't work. Let's get some real integration and community going here. Corp tools, corp hangars, nullsec interaction. These things should be A1 priorities.
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Ivan Avogadro
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
718
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Posted - 2014.02.06 16:02:00 -
[68] - Quote
Ayures II wrote:Akdhar Saif wrote:Fully agree with OP. +1
Hilmar stated recently that they will be focussing on making Dust a great FPS. I think we need to remind him that one of Dust 514s biggest selling point is the fact that it is (supposed to be) happening in New Eden.
I would suggest adding full market interaction but I feel CCP are too scared to do anything involving ISK in case they destabilise EVEs economy. What is left? Interactive PVE? Having Mercs fulfil Capsuleer contracts i.e. clearing out P.I. Installations of Rogue Drones.
How much more "New Stuff" do we have to go through until we can expect such an expansion. They still have to fill out the vehicle tree and add some new dropsuits but do we really have to wait through all of that for meaningful gameplay? An open EVE-DUST market connection wouldn't hurt EVE's economy. It would wreck DUST's, though. All I have to do is put up a sell order of a militia scrambler rifle for 100m or so and have my EVE character buy it. Proto all day every day.
That can be properly modified with more content. Right now DUSTIES just instantly teleport from quarters to Warbarge to moon surface, regardless of how far away it actually is. What if traveling cost ISK?
What if individual mercs had an upper bound on inventory? Depending on the ship where your quarters are located, you have a max CPU/PG for readying and storing suits. So you could choose between owning 50 fully operational PRO suits at a time, or 200 ADV suits, etc...
What if uplinks drain faster porting a PRO suit respawns? So 5 pro suit could completely use up a Pro uplink by respawning, or 12-15 ADV suits could use the same uplink. There are plenty of ways to balance ISK usage creatively so that people use PRO suits less often.
In the end, if there is full integration between Dust and Eve, then all Dust players will end up comparatively super rich to what they have now. It will disrupt the economy at first but settle on a new norm eventually. As long as we have reasons to spend our money or incentives to hold back on full PRO fits. |
Aran Abbas
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
313
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Posted - 2014.02.06 16:19:00 -
[69] - Quote
I've said it before and I'll say it again and it'll be just as worthless a comment for CCP as it ever was, but: make station capture in EVE require Dust mercs. Stations chaging ownership by firing at them is pretty ridiculous and it's the one place where Dust makes absolute sense to EVE. |
Heinz Doofenshertz
BetaMax.
657
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Posted - 2014.02.06 16:40:00 -
[70] - Quote
Samahiel wrote:Heinz Doofenshertz wrote: showing you cut things just make people wonder what you cut. I originally had notes explaining the nature of what was cut, but I was up against a character limit, and didn't want the quote block continuing into the second post. Briefly, it was a side discussion about the state and politics of planetary conquest and a few lines that mentioned people by name or were redundant.
Thank you for the clarification
Dust514 Stats, Have you updated today?
I do maths, and sit in a corner.
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Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1637
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Posted - 2014.02.06 16:51:00 -
[71] - Quote
Aran Abbas wrote:I've said it before and I'll say it again and it'll be just as worthless a comment for CCP as it ever was, but: make station capture in EVE require Dust mercs. Stations chaging ownership by firing at them is pretty ridiculous and it's the one place where Dust makes absolute sense to EVE.
One of the design goals is to make both games work without the other, especially Eve. So what I'd add to that is a really difficult method of taking a station that is similar to SBUing gates. Something like deployables you drop around a station that, once it is vulnerable, start irradiating it to kill the people inside and hacking the computer systems to take control of the docking bays. After a day or two the station flips.
Or, instead of a painful hellcamp to protect those things you hire mercs to storm the station. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
10615
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 17:02:00 -
[72] - Quote
Philipp Achtel wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:I don't have very much experience with EVE outside of just running around by myself in high sec and doing PI hauls through low sec.
People can say what they want about Goonswarm, but aside from Cerebral Wolfs "meltdown", I found Immobile Infantry to be a great corporation to have been in. You guys had a near flawless vehicle reimbursement program basically from day one, and it was really easy to report and receive payment.
Metagame aside, they were pretty much all a great bunch of people to hang out with.
Excellent post OP
o7 Where did you go, dust fiend? We were supposed to be dropship buddies! On topic, the social aspect is the main thing that drew players to this game. If you want to play a tight console FPS, there are plenty. While I can see the importance of racial parity, it feels like a sideshow to me. Taking planets in nullsec and work with my goon (grrr!) buddies is why i'm here. Our failed planetary conquest experiment has shown that half measures don't work. Let's get some real integration and community going here. Corp tools, corp hangars, nullsec interaction. These things should be A1 priorities.
I jumped ship shortly before things went sideways, I was invited in by Cerebral and I just had a bad feeling towards the end, and went with it. OSG has been good to me, but I run solo faaaaaaaar too much for my own good lol. I like loud crappy music and have a kid and hate push to talk lol, and I hate waiting around for another match, not that that always happens. Also, a lot of people play FW now, and as a drophip pilot, there is no reason for me to play it. The only turrets worth a damn are for Caldari, and I'm Gallente lol.
I'm incredibly unreliable lol, but toss me a message in game sometime and I'll try to run a few matches with you and compare notes.
Fly safe o7
Videos / Fiction
Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
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Kain Spero
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
2770
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Posted - 2014.02.06 17:14:00 -
[73] - Quote
A really great discussion. I think a lot this gets at some core dissatisfaction that many players have with the game right now. The key is that the FPS part has to be engaging and fun. Does it have to be the best FPS experience out there? No, but it has have a minimum of entertainment. Unfortunately, if the FPS part just leads to a dead end in terms of the bigger picture Dust will follow right along to that dead end as well.
The gameplay and moment to moment is what is going to hook people in at the start, but it's going to be the community and the "greater game" that keep people here.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
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CRNWLLC
Screwy Rabbit ULC
21
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Posted - 2014.02.06 17:30:00 -
[74] - Quote
I wonder what would happen if EVE players (especially Dust players with active EVE toons) started posting on EVE forums, too? Would CCP be more inclined to listen if they understood how important these issues also are to what I assume would be a meaningful number of EVE players?
Seems like they lack resources or imagination. Why not new EVE-side ships that are specifically for transporting mercs to POSes, etc., so they could storm the things, hack certain objectives so that the invading corp could then control the POS? NPC mercs running the hallways for squads to mow downGǪhmm, sounds like a PVE opportunity. Too bad IGÇÖve never heard a Dust player express interest in PVEGǪ
ItGÇÖs sort of shocking to think that CCP is developing a title for the Occulus RiftGÇöa brand spanking new piece of hardwareGÇöwhen theyGÇÖre struggling to keep the wheel turning on Dust. Five bucks says Valkyrie is just Starfox: New Eden Style.
Have you seen my baseball?
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Dr Accipitradea
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
30
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Posted - 2014.02.06 17:43:00 -
[75] - Quote
This game squandered so much potential.
All I want from DUST is to be able to help my brothers in space do something without having to do stupid queue games or make them fly into hostile territory because that's where the match we randomed into is.
Why is it so hard to play with my friends in space still? |
lee corwood
Knights Of Ender
434
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 18:39:00 -
[76] - Quote
I agree with this wholeheartedly. I was recruited by a friend to play and in turn recruited another friend so the 3 of us could squad. I'm the only one left and of the friends I have that might be interested, I don't give them an invite. The newer player introduction is abysmal and while I'm all for supporting Dust, I myself would be angry to beat that endless grinding filled with rage and more "htfu" than I would care to swallow to arrive to the state we are right now.
I'm white knuckling it as it is. I love the community I have found within the game. They are the reason I continue to log in, but without that community, there is really no incentive to return. I'm lost as to where this game is going. I'm confused by every single change in development as I'm used to iterative tweaks and not system wide changes without a clear roadmap, which has happened often and repeatedly.
FW came close to giving us a place to start aligning ourselves and in the first few months, man, my matari brethren were organized. Then the FF issues came but people still kept coming and now, my channels are all but dead. There are EVE pilots asking us if we need support and are left in silence.
That being said, I'm not ungrateful. This is a free game and for what it's worth, this is the best state the game has been in, and that's saying a lot, glaring balance issues and all.
However, I honestly feel like someone vomited the half finished functional requirements document onto my screen without a clue about Human Computer Interface Design (your menu and HUD system is horrific) and almost like they have never heard of Immersion in video games:
- meaningful warbarge that show us how we are even affecting EVE if at all
- lore that is meaningful to us as players in races who have actually never played EVE - consider a shelf in our quarters with books that speak to lore specific to our own race that we can just 'interact' with
- areas to be with players without having to worry about getting your face shot off INCLUDING pilots-think conference rooms. anything to get us 'together' without ignoring one another in favor of kdr
- training areas for corporations
- PVE as stated a million times
- being able to hear some damn footsteps behind me that are meaningful (ie, heavy should stomp, medium should walk, light should be ninja silent tip toeing, etc) And so many more sounds. Sounds are a huge part of immersion. Hell, even just get me pumped up by playing dramatic music before I deploy?!?!
- player item gifting. we have specializations and they differ. I'll never snipe or tank but I have plenty I could give to a corpmate who does
The list goes on and on, and trust me, I work in the field, I get the whole 'let's just get it working first' attitude, but I've been stunned and amazed at how much more patient and willing to extend deadlines my clients are when I suddenly give them something pretty to look at.
Just a banner of my race in the room. It can even be made of rusted metal and hung by duct tape. Pwease???
EDIT: typos
Minmatar Logisis | Heavy lover. Come get some badass Band-Aids from this chick
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Damian Crisis
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
31
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Posted - 2014.02.06 18:45:00 -
[77] - Quote
Straight up, this is the best thread ever. Are we actually getting stuff directly yo CCP? I know there's a suggestion forum for CCP here and I think it would be a great idea to move all complaints and suggestions over there.
I've only been playing this game maybe 3 weeks but I have some background on Eve Online. Even before I became a capsuleteer in December, I knew a lot about Eve Online due to my father in law and the history of the stuff that goes behind.
I really care about this game. I can offer a lot of suggestions as well on what DUST 514 should be or could be. Right now though we do need to fix the game, but the same way that Eve Online gets a balancing update on every expansion is the same way DUST 514 should ALONG with something new implemented. I don't care if my entire PS3 drive gets full to DUST 514. I pick DUST 514 over any other game right now on my PS3 because I bought my PS3 recently just for DUST.
The OP's conversation had a great point Eve Players need to be able to give a damn about what we do.
We need to be able to do something that Eve Players really can't without us. Something on the ground that will affect the entire Universe. Maybe you should allow us players to start manufacturing weapons, vehicles, and perhaps maybe even dropsuits.
Maybe in Fleet battles on Eve, there could be a drop suit that would need to drop us off on a planet they want to dominate for resources or something. There are so many planets on New Eden, that we should be able to do this. We also need to find a way to open the game up more. Maybe we don't need these match making things and there can be a way to defend Sov for our corps on the ground. Maybe make planets that are a great resources to both players and instead of it being some matching making stuff.. it could simply be our clones get transferred to this HUUUGGGEEEE planet and the same way we capture points on Domination, maybe it will be according to Corp and whenever we capture this point it's automatically giving our corp and alliances the resources we need whether it be ores that we could both use, ore, or something.
I think what players are put off by right now is the match making stuff and the imbalance of the game, but it shouldn't be so scripted. We should be able to invade other planets while players are there and maybe figure out a way to make it difficult to invade a planet and take over if players are logged off. I don't want to say NPC Mercs defending a corp's planet resources, but something along those lines.
We need to just abolish the Lobby crap. Only leave Pub Battles so we can make ISK and SP. Manufacturing should work exactly like Eve does though..
I don't know I'm just throwing ideas out there.
Popularity is not an attribute of a Scout, unless it's the afterlife.
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Eltra Ardell
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
355
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Posted - 2014.02.06 18:54:00 -
[78] - Quote
Aran Abbas wrote:I've said it before and I'll say it again and it'll be just as worthless a comment for CCP as it ever was, but: make station capture in EVE require Dust mercs. Stations chaging ownership by firing at them is pretty ridiculous and it's the one place where Dust makes absolute sense to EVE.
Then we can finally take Providence! |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
3339
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Posted - 2014.02.06 19:27:00 -
[79] - Quote
On the subject of MMO vs. FPS, I figured I'd echo some of the earlier comments about being able to overlook some balance issues with gameplay incentives.
A game doesn't have to be perfect in terms of balance. Speaking from experience in playing other MMOs, like Everquest, Ultima Online, etc., players will and do overlook serious balance issues to have fun. This is true in the PvP aspect of these games as well; it isn't getting stomped alone that makes new players lose interest. Rather, I think it's when your ONLY option seems to be getting stomped that a gamer can lose interest.
When people played games like Everquest on a PvP server, and got stomped horribly - logging off in frustration was a thing. They didn't necessarily quit though. It's the new players that got griefed, had their corpse camped, and only experienced stomping that were more likely to just up in quit.
People had other things to do, whether it was grinding for levels, gear, or doing tradeskills. Oftentimes, the other things would bring PvP in new and exciting places. Even EVE isn't PvP all the time. You CAN just sit around and run missions, which are often a bit dull. You can also work on production, scam people, or mine.
In both cases (EVE and Everquest in this example), the parts weren't perfectly balanced. PvP in Everquest had all sorts of large balance issues from it not being a primary consideration in the game. The tradeskills had a monotonous grind where you'd combine stacks and stacks of materials hoping to randomly get a skill-up to make gear that was usually far inferior to dropped gear. PvE (their focus) had numerous exploits, class issues, and mechanics that would kill players through little fault of their own. There's probably less to be said about EVE here, but anyone that's run missions in EVE knows how quickly you get repeats, how bare the stories are, etc.
It's the sum of the parts that helps. An MMO should give you more options of what-to-do. Getting killed out and about in Everquest didn't mean you couldn't sit around and fish, do some tradeskill, or level your character instead of PvPing. EVE gives you various options as well. In Dust, we just have the lobby shooter element. If you're frustrated? Too bad, because that's your only option.
I post about suit balance, etc. issues often enough because I'd like to see the future game be better, but it's the core notion of what exactly the player experience amounts to or is reduced to that matters in the end. Ties to EVE can make the game great in a number of ways, but I'd bear in mind that expecting new players to enjoy Dust merely because it impacts something in another game they don't play won't matter if it's still just a lobby team-deathmatch shooter on our end.
All this is to say, even crappy PvE would be better than no PvE, because it serves as a release valve for players to do something else. Even crappy means of manufacturing or impacting industry is better than none, because it means something more than just lobby-shoot or spin in circles in our quarters. Variety and an impact in a larger universe is the promise of Dust, but you can't feel that with just Team Deathmatch.
Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
1535
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Posted - 2014.02.06 20:00:00 -
[80] - Quote
Shion Typhon wrote:The 800lb gorilla in the room which you didn't really address is the market this game is meant to target.
Yes traditional gamers tend to play many genres; I play, MMOs, FPSs and racing games but when we're talking the big numbers the FPS crowd is, to a large degree, a different set of players than the MMO/sandbox crowd.
They demand radically different things. SP, while familiar to MMO players is an anathema to FPS purists. Map design is a central tenet of FPS design but a throwaway afterthought in Dust. There is a long list of similar issues.
Dust either needs to:
1) Choose between these two groups; or
2) Make a whole string of goddamn brilliant design decisions to reconcile the two sides
You're right Shion.
And here's the thing that make us, the playerbase, the 2-year beta testers, the new players, the interested EVE observers crazy with frustration: we all know that it can be done. We all know that your point number 2 is achievable. The game is still CCP's to lose, even at this late stage.
We know that New Eden has the power to suck in even the console FPSers. What makes us crazy is that CCP has seemed hell-bent on losing the war through poor(well totally FUBAR'd, tbh) logistics. Several peeps in this thread have already given up on DUST as an FPS and so given up on that huge FPS playerbase. But that's a mistake and totally unnecessary.
CCP Rouge has got to get the horses out of the field kitchen, control the dysentery, recover the supplies abandoned behind enemy lines and move the whole f'in mess out of the g'damned malarial swamp they're bivouacked in. But the good new is that the recon has already been done, by native backwoods scouts, hunters and soldiers who know the both lay of the land and the nature of the enemy. The reports are stacked high in his field command post, and many good mercs have been lost to put them there.
And so we wait, because there is still no word from the big tent, no word from our Field Marshall.
I support SP rollover.
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Cat Poo
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
178
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Posted - 2014.02.06 20:50:00 -
[81] - Quote
Luna Angelo wrote:CCP does need better Relations with the Community, and telling us things they're planning would help that.
but, but, but, CCPMintchip |
Ivan Avogadro
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
718
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Posted - 2014.02.06 20:51:00 -
[82] - Quote
I'm not really responding to anyone in particular, just putting my thoughts in the ether. I know people here turn to Planetside a lot, but it really is the closest thing that exists to DUST. Not just in Space Marine theme, but also in MMO-FPS genre.
Planetside 1 was an awesome game. I never played PS2, but I was a PS1 vet. What the game had was a sense of agency and a sense of urgency. When I logged in, I could choose which planets I wanted to visit, in what order, and I flew myself there. I could go where the big battle was currently waging, or I could sneak behind enemy lines on their abandoned and silent frontier. Once I got where I was going, I could engage on head on with a rifle. I could transport troops in vehicles. I could get in jet dogfights. I could put on a mech suit and wreak havoc or I could put on a stealth suit and wreak mischief. These are things DUST doesn't have. Regardless of the EVE connection, even the DUST battles as they exist in their own game lack any kind of grandeur.
The maps in DUST, while big, don't encourage engagement lines far away from the objective points. And the game simply doesn't reward alternative strategies. Once you are in a match, you are there to stay come hell or high water. You can't just abandon a fight you are losing to march west and hit the district next door instead. Enemies won't have their attention drawn away by a new force "off in the distance". Nobody is going to roll in 10 minutes late, with 100 new clones, to reinvigorate a floundering team. Likewise, nobody can hack that carrier with 100 new clones and steal them for the other side, since it doesn't even exist.
I realize that large battles like this are limited by the PS3 hardware, but these are the types of things I want to see. Individual battles that last for hours, and by the end one force owns an entire moon because of it. |
Shion Typhon
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
388
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 22:09:00 -
[83] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:And here's the thing that make us, the playerbase, the 2-year beta testers, the new players, the interested EVE observers crazy with frustration: we all know that it can be done. We all know that your point number 2 is achievable. The game is still CCP's to lose, even at this late stage.
We know that New Eden has the power to suck in even the console FPSers. What makes us crazy is that CCP has seemed hell-bent on losing the war through poor(well totally FUBAR'd, tbh) logistics. Several peeps in this thread have already given up on DUST as an FPS and so given up on that huge FPS playerbase. But that's a mistake and totally unnecessary.
I don't know, I just think that, for whatever reason CCP Shanghai are incapable at the end of the day of making an FPS that really appeals in any way to dedicated FPS players. All their design decisions just scream that they lack the art, the spark and the understanding of what really makes a good FPS. They just aren't a Valve/Epic/Infinity Ward/Bungie.
I just think they should play to the strengths, not the weaknesses. True FPS design needs to be EXTREMELY tight, a straightjacket; competitive FPS players care about 1% differences in weapons or a single misplaced mesh on a map that gives an LOS advantage to one side. MMO design is a little more sloppy, a comfy sweater; gameplay is more loose and more forgiving, there are many things to do and many approaches to accomplishing success, and things like lore and cool factor start to matter more than whether a particular wall in a particular tunnel is 0.5m tall or 0.6m tall.
I think a good place for CCP to start is to look at how they create their maps both in size and nature. They need to forget the PS3 platform for a moment and ask themselves. Why don't our maps reproduce New Eden? Why can't we have the inside of a moonbase or a station boarding or a Titan capture or a swamp planet or an ocean planet? Why are our maps non-persistent?
IMO they should have gone with a Guild Wars 1 lobby type system where warbages are "portal towns" into a mix of persistent and non-persistent maps. Moving from warbarge to warbarge could cost ISK, create logistics and eventually (in the far future) become actual troop transport carriers in EVE. EVE Corps could "donate" funds to the maps they choose to accomplish the goals they want and mercs apply for berths ("queue") to partake in the maps they are interested in with profit sharing. Maps might have upper limits on participants for hardware limitations but mercs can come and go from the map to keep the war going. |
Serimos Haeraven
The Exemplars
Top Men.
649
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 22:56:00 -
[84] - Quote
Ivan Avogadro wrote:I'm not really responding to anyone in particular, just putting my thoughts in the ether. I know people here turn to Planetside a lot, but it really is the closest thing that exists to DUST. Not just in Space Marine theme, but also in MMO-FPS genre.
Planetside 1 was an awesome game. I never played PS2, but I was a PS1 vet. What the game had was a sense of agency and a sense of urgency. When I logged in, I could choose which planets I wanted to visit, in what order, and I flew myself there. I could go where the big battle was currently waging, or I could sneak behind enemy lines on their abandoned and silent frontier. Once I got where I was going, I could engage on head on with a rifle. I could transport troops in vehicles. I could get in jet dogfights. I could put on a mech suit and wreak havoc or I could put on a stealth suit and wreak mischief. These are things DUST doesn't have. Regardless of the EVE connection, even the DUST battles as they exist in their own game lack any kind of grandeur.
The maps in DUST, while big, don't encourage engagement lines far away from the objective points. And the game simply doesn't reward alternative strategies. Once you are in a match, you are there to stay come hell or high water. You can't just abandon a fight you are losing to march west and hit the district next door instead. Enemies won't have their attention drawn away by a new force "off in the distance". Nobody is going to roll in 10 minutes late, with 100 new clones, to reinvigorate a floundering team. Likewise, nobody can hack that carrier with 100 new clones and steal them for the other side, since it doesn't even exist.
I realize that large battles like this are limited by the PS3 hardware, but these are the types of things I want to see. Individual battles that last for hours, and by the end one force owns an entire moon because of it.
Another great reply made on this topic. Devs, you better be reading! But probably not.. 
Tankers are being diagnosed with a new disease; Cancer of the Assault Dropship.
Many of them don't survive.
|
Erasmus Konstantin
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
11
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 00:57:00 -
[85] - Quote
Nothing I can really say without echoing what has already been stated other than CCP, take a good, long look. |
Hobo on Fire
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
139
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 01:44:00 -
[86] - Quote
Paging CCP to the thread. We know you that you know it exists. :tinfoil: |
Sigberct Amni
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
369
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 01:46:00 -
[87] - Quote
Hobo on Fire wrote:Paging CCP to the thread. We know you that you know it exists. :tinfoil:
They already responded. On twitter.  |
Samahiel
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
176
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 03:47:00 -
[88] - Quote
Sigberct Amni wrote:Hobo on Fire wrote:Paging CCP to the thread. We know you that you know it exists. :tinfoil: They already responded. On twitter.
For me it's enough to know it was read for now. I really just wanted to get some of these ideas out there and bouncing around the community.
|
Paradoxical Nature
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
77
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 04:15:00 -
[89] - Quote
Samahiel wrote:
For me it's enough to know it was read for now. I really just wanted to get some of these ideas out there and bouncing around the community.
It's important to keep the discussion rolling however. These are issues that've been brewing for a while and with another Fanfest on the horizon; it's important to keep asking where all the important things are. |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2916
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 04:51:00 -
[90] - Quote
Sigberct Amni wrote:Hobo on Fire wrote:Paging CCP to the thread. We know you that you know it exists. :tinfoil: They already responded. On twitter.
Does anyone have a link, or even better, can someone copy/pasta their response? (twitter is trash for anything other than witty one-liners and pictures of lunches) |
|
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Samahiel
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
178
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 04:58:00 -
[91] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:Sigberct Amni wrote:Hobo on Fire wrote:Paging CCP to the thread. We know you that you know it exists. :tinfoil: They already responded. On twitter. Does anyone have a link, or even better, can someone copy/pasta their response? (twitter is trash for anything other than witty one-liners and pictures of lunches)
https://twitter.com/kanafchian/status/431225612775084033
https://twitter.com/kanafchian/status/431248151488757761
and
https://twitter.com/kanafchian/status/431248568910090241
are the relevant ones.
Either way, this isn't a torches and pitchforks moment for me. I more interested in constructively advancing the conversation, and making it clear where our concern as player and content makers lies. |
Abu Stij
WaffleDingos
269
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 05:02:00 -
[92] - Quote
So the whole thread is essentially a giant echo chamber of people upset with DUST and it's current iteration. That's something the CPM and CCP Shanghai should be concerned about given that these are all well reasoned and thought out arguments.
One of the chief problems that has been discussed from the get go is that the game was designed with minimal, if any, EVE-DUST relations in mind and/or iterated in a manner people were expecting for the launch version. For example in Faction Warfare players had no way of choosing which side to ally with for months and only recently fixed that. That's a huge oversight of the basic mechanic to how EVE's FW system worked. This is also evident in the Corp Management UI, and other areas where the basics from EVE were ignored at first, only to be attempted to crammed in later. It's a bad design overall. Whether or not CCP Shanghai had staff on hand that knew the basics of EVE's mechanics (i.e. being able to choose the faction to fight for, player trade being ~a thing~, etc.) in these areas isn't a question of if, but why. The evidence of a lack of understanding or focus on making DUST an extension of EVE's style of gameplay is indicative CCP didn't have any clue what they wanted and still went along with the production.
It's troubling that after half a year we're only a small step towards what the game was promised to be and to be like. We still lack a player driven market, a staple of EVE, but that's understanding given that ~economics~ is a nightmare and CCP DrEyjoG and his team don't want to ruin the EVE economy for a game on a "dead" platform. The economy is understandable, however a lack of reward for playing other than "here's a ptitance of ISK for waiting two minutes to find a match and spending twenty firing a gun" doesn't help mitigate the poor ISK Income to ISK Expense ratio.
I'd talk about how there's a need for PVE component in the game, but there's been zero indication that CCP want this to be a feature so I'll avoid it. Instead I'll mention how there's a dire need for ISK to be generated in other ways than simply hopping on and shooting a gun. It's another one of those "this is a basic game design within EVE, how did this not get thought of or integrated?" issues. Manufacturing or salvaging items to then use is one potential option to handle the lack of player driven market. There needs to be different methods to make ISK, which at present is limited to just one and it's not even that good.
I've been patient with CCP, I've played EVE for over five years straight, so I'm used to understanding not everything goes as planned. However with DUST it just seems CCP, overall, don't really know how to handle what DUST is supposed to be after marketing it in the way they did. It's been half a year since it's been launched, many cite that it could have waited a year to launch too by the way but with the PS4 coming out it seemed to be rushed out the door. We lack PVE, meaningful PC, strong EVE-DUST synergy, a working player driven economy, and a host of other basic components that make DUST a worthwhile download for people.
We also have no clue what the future of DUST is, now that it's on essentially a "dead" platform in terms of how the game industry works. We know CCP don't want to just port it to PC, which has a lot more complications people haven't really comprehended, but we aren't aware of if this game will even be considered for PS4. It's again, a lack of known focus or end goals that's leading to the mindset that DUST is just a waste of resources on CCP's side of the deal.
Do You Like Waffles?
|
Zohar Colichemarde
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
11
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 05:23:00 -
[93] - Quote
It seems to me like they really do want to tell us the changes they want to make, but are under some sort of NDA and are unable to do so.
Which begs the question: who's holding the reins on these NDA's? Is it Sony? CCP? CCP Shanghai itself?
The inability to explain future changes to this game is kind of hurting them rather than protecting anything, I think. |
Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1643
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 06:09:00 -
[94] - Quote
I'd like to add here that I completely understand why the link to Eve is so small right now. Linking two wildly different games like this has never been done before and it had the potential to backfire in a rather spectacular way. It had to start small. The last thing that CCP needed was another summer of rage following a rushed merging of the two games. Then we had a rough period where some core mechanics were very badly in need of attention. I'm not really too interested in why this rough period happened, but I've been a developer for 8 years now. Things simply don't always go the way you hope they will, and what is done is done.
I'm not so much upset with the current iteration of Dust as I am disappointed because I can see how much more it could be. I'd say more that I'm worried that the current path of adding guns and tweaking mechanics will take up the larger portion of development time in 2014. I'd rather they balance the toys that we have now and then start putting some meat onto the bones they've given us so far, with the occasional piece of candy thrown at us in the form of a new weapon or something. If you listened to the average person posting on this boards you'd think that new guns was the most important thing ever, but it really isn't. Add a new gun and 2 weeks later people are bored. We need the tools and mechanics to start creating our own content, in the form of drama and skullduggery. |
Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
1540
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 06:11:00 -
[95] - Quote
Zohar Colichemarde wrote:It seems to me like they really do want to tell us the changes they want to make, but are under some sort of NDA and are unable to do so. Which begs the question: who's holding the reins on these NDA's? Is it Sony? CCP? CCP Shanghai itself? The inability to explain future changes to this game is kind of hurting them rather than protecting anything, I think.
Kinda like an old merc taking his secrets to the grave with him while he hemorrhages out the last of his life on a lonely battlefield.
I support SP rollover.
|
Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
692
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 06:13:00 -
[96] - Quote
Cat Poo wrote:Luna Angelo wrote:CCP does need better Relations with the Community, and telling us things they're planning would help that. but, but, but, CCPMintchip
CCP Mintchip notwithstanding, I stand by my word. And I like how you only quoted the first part.
I don't need luck, I have ammo.
Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep.
CEO of We Who Walk Alone
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LEHON Xeon
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
181
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 06:14:00 -
[97] - Quote
What the OP wrote I found to be excellent. Having played video games for so many years and so many different genres I'll add in what I think for what it's worth.
There's one word which I think could improve this game massively on multiple levels and that term simply is "Integration". An integration on a player based level with a player/secondary market for items. At least somewhat of an integration with Eve. Make the battles actually have a pull in Eve in terms of what corporations or alliances control planets. If a system or section of space erupts in a war, while the space battle goes on, there should be battles on foot going on in space stations, large ships, or on planets themselves. For those who can remember back far enough, Star Wars Battlefront 2 had this element. In Galactic Conquest, there were space battles. Ship to ship, which could occur with soldiers on foot. Granted in game you could also fly ships to damage capital ships from the outside, but CCP could adjust that to make it that only Eve pilots do that role. Ground combat would only take place on ships themselves. Then after that space battle, if one side lost it, the side which won was in a prime position to attack the selected planet in a ground campaign.
Dust also needs an increase from just 16 people per side. More players means more variety in matches and map strategies would be forced to change and new ones created. Also, once and if (a big if) PC ever gets fully fixed, it needs to be expanded outside of Molden Heath. More planets and environments would be helpful and, even if just for a brief period, encourage corps to jump back into that game mode.
New player experiences DEFINITELY need to be dealt with. Even though we've had a large decrease in the player base, the secondary problem is there's no fresh flow. I would advocate for a longer Academy time (when I first joined it was 25k total WP accumulation; the current 400 is ridiculous). Even a secondary Academy for building up extra SP while avoiding a stomping of new players in regular Academy would be great. Also, a tutorial mode would be massively helpful. New people have no idea what they're doing at all and never will without spending large amounts of time which most don't want to do or can't.
Technical issues should also be at the top of CCPs list to resolve. I'd place these even above content updates in terms of an immediate timeframe. Things like matchmaking (i.e. Scotty), lag, hitboxes, invisible walls, and frame rate should be high priority fixes and would lead to a partial reduction in frustration among players. Matchmaking resolution would easily solve many problems in pubs we have now and greatly assist new players. In one pub match earlier this week, the matchmaking was asinine. The other side was comprised of 15 Lord-British people who all q-synced. Only one guy wasn't, while all of my entire side was practically NPC corp people. I think only myself and one other guy belonged to player owned corps (yes I was running solo). Three matches later, it happened again, only with 12 Lord-British this time.
Having gone through several bouts now of OP weapons, equipment, or vehicles, I truly believe that CCP's constant balancing act needs to take a place on the back burner until more major issues are resolved. Like these new upcoming suits should have been placed in a long time ago already. People will always complain somewhere about something being OP here or there, or thinking they die too fast to a player, but some of them just need to "HTFU" as many say. Learn to work around it. That's what I had to do (originally had a KDR of 0.64). If balance can be implemented in a small patch or a hotfix which takes up little development time, then that should be done. However, these massive rebalances in lieu of new development or technical issues patch after patch are just stupid. We've already lost more of the player base I'm sure due to boredom and frustration over those who were angry over weapons, dropsuits, or vehicle damage.
There's two main reasons I keep "riding out" Dust in its current form. The first is that right now, while sometimes monotonous, it still has that slightly different flavor than other FPS games I've played. For me in its current form it provides a bit of a challenge in trying to work around and with other players that have more SP than I do and also in working around FOTMs. The second is that I enjoy going into matches and talking with people themselves. However, eventually that'll burn out. I can clearly see what this came could really become, but at its current rate, I wonder if it'll ever get anywhere near what everyone keeps anticipating and hoping. As others have said, the last few updates have been "encouraging" but two steps forward after months and months of player frustration and a reduction in playerbase due to a ton of disasterous updates isn't going to cut it.
It's a trap! In this patch we can't repel firepower of that magnitude! - Admiral Ackbar would say in ambush w Nyain San
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TheAmazing FlyingPig
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
5665
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 07:06:00 -
[98] - Quote
Quote:[10:48:11] Kane Spero: CCP realizes that they have ****** up I can say that much.
Quote of the year.
Never forget
May 14, 2013: Beta 2.0
|
Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1865
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 10:50:00 -
[99] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:A really great discussion. I think a lot this gets at some core dissatisfaction that many players have with the game right now. The key is that the FPS part has to be engaging and fun. Does it have to be the best FPS experience out there? No, but it has have a minimum of entertainment. Unfortunately, if the FPS part just leads to a dead end in terms of the bigger picture Dust will follow right along to that dead end as well.
The gameplay and moment to moment is what is going to hook people in at the start, but it's going to be the community and the "greater game" that keep people here.
Indeed it will be, we understand CCP's descision to focus on the FPS side first, after all we all know that once your hooked you can't just leave.
However all we want in Reality is form of formal document or timeline, or brief from CCP that outlines that they intend to improve the matagame in some way.
Even if it's just,
Discussed Feasibility of improved Meta-game via use of . . . . .
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
|
lee corwood
Knights Of Ender
442
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 17:35:00 -
[100] - Quote
LEHON Xeon wrote: Also, a tutorial mode would be massively helpful. New people have no idea what they're doing at all and never will without spending large amounts of time which most don't want to do or can't.
I stated this in another forum, how the best games out there have intuitive interfaces that drive users where they need to go and fill in details as they chose to explore. This game has none of that direction. The community has done all the heavy lifting trying to incorporate new users and help them limp along and that's only if a player is motivated enough or even knows to come to the forums, but it's still not the medium to deliver that sort of detail.
"Welcome to the game. Here's your collection of # page forum manuals on how to play." <-- doesn't that just sound fun 
Minmatar Logisis | Heavy lover. Come get some badass Band-Aids from this chick
|
|
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Reiki Jubo
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
362
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 17:48:00 -
[101] - Quote
Abu Stij wrote: Instead I'll mention how there's a dire need for ISK to be generated in other ways than simply hopping on and shooting a gun. It's another one of those "this is a basic game design within EVE, how did this not get thought of or integrated?" issues. Manufacturing or salvaging items to then use is one potential option to handle the lack of player driven market. There needs to be different methods to make ISK, which at present is limited to just one and it's not even that good.
FACTS. |
Dusters Blog
Galactic News Network
610
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 18:04:00 -
[102] - Quote
Kristoff Atruin wrote:If you listened to the average person posting on this boards you'd think that new guns was the most important thing ever, but it really isn't. Add a new gun and 2 weeks later people are bored. We need the tools and mechanics to start creating our own content, in the form of drama and skullduggery.
the ability to create content is so critical and essential. just today we saw some of the results of the API http://eveplanets.com/ and its just one tool for users enhancing their own experiences. developers should be excited about users adding their own variety to the gaming experience..player contracts, bounties, social hubs and organized FW [so pilots can properly support their allies] are just a few of the ways to make Dust an experience CCP can be proud of.
our battery of questions for CPM1 candidates: http://tinyurl.com/mjvwe7f
|
Dusters Blog
Galactic News Network
610
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 18:16:00 -
[103] - Quote
lee corwood wrote:"Welcome to the game. Here's your collection of # page forum manuals on how to play." <-- doesn't that just sound fun
exactly, the casual player will never do this, even the interested player will assume they can 'figure it out' fail horribly and have a good chance of not laying the game again concluding its 'bad or simpley 'too confusing'. the NPE will make or break Dust, we have been saying it since May of 2012. http://dustmercs.blogspot.com/2012/05/dust-514-impressions.html
our battery of questions for CPM1 candidates: http://tinyurl.com/mjvwe7f
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
1541
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 19:39:00 -
[104] - Quote
Dusters Blog wrote:lee corwood wrote:"Welcome to the game. Here's your collection of # page forum manuals on how to play." <-- doesn't that just sound fun exactly, the casual player will never do this, even the interested player will assume they can 'figure it out' fail horribly and have a good chance of not playing the game again concluding its 'bad or simpley 'too confusing'. the low population shows only the super hardcore and people familiar with new eden are sticking around. this defeats the very purpose of going f2p and giving equal access to 80M PS3 users. the NPE will continue to make or break Dust, we have been saying it since May of 2012. http://dustmercs.blogspot.com/2012/05/dust-514-impressions.html'This game needs a Game Tutorial that will tell players about every aspect of the game, how to be successful and even little things like the differences between Amarr and Minmatar, what PG and CPU are and how the info tab is your friend. This just isn't a forty-yard dash, its a marathon. And if the tutorial isn't well done you'll miss out on a lot of players.'
And because the content in DUST is already largeish and will grow into something fairly massive, the tutorial will have to broken up and staged in patalatble chunks.
The first tute would be basic controls for movement/actions that showcased DUST's tight, responsive mechanics - just like Mirror's Edge, say.
This is really our first and most important opportunity to catch players and hold them long enough to begin the process of making them citizens of New Eden.
I support SP rollover.
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Hobo on Fire
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
144
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 20:14:00 -
[105] - Quote
Just got an email from CCP for a customer survey. I put a link to this thread in one of the comment boxes for Dust, along with a summary of Samahiel's three main points. |
Zohar Colichemarde
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
11
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 20:26:00 -
[106] - Quote
Hobo on Fire wrote:Just got an email from CCP for a customer survey. I put a link to this thread in one of the comment boxes for Dust, along with a summary of Samahiel's three main points.
Good man. If one of those surveys comes my way, I will be sure to do the same. |
Your Absolut End
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
359
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 21:08:00 -
[107] - Quote
I indeed think tutorials are needed.
But personaly I don't think CCP should fixate to much on newer players at this moment.
Theres no marketing campaign, no real efforts to drag new players into this game anyways, and besides that it's hard to keep players in a half finished game on an olds console. So lets just face the fact that there is not a huge "new player flow"
IMO the right way to go would is to concentrate on what we already have. Atm we have a somehow stable playerbase, build of mostly hardcore gamers who wanna see this game grow. so instead of letting those players go and hope for newer players join and stay we need to concentrate ion the actual game and especially on the eve/dust link.
It is crucial to extend the game and to build up a direct and feelable connection between those games. this is what dust seperates from other games, and if we let this go, we all just can move on to any other lobby shooter. Heck we wouldn't even have to worry about skillpoint anymore lol.
CCP should use the time on Ps3 to concentrate on building up the game. Once this is done and the game is in a stable good working state and good connection with eve, port it to PS4 with a huge ass advertise campaign=profit.
Selling half baked bread just works for one day.
another one bites the Dust...
Born as Kameira, die as Kameira, my life for the Empress!
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1396
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 21:16:00 -
[108] - Quote
Kristoff Atruin wrote:I'd like to add here that I completely understand why the link to Eve is so small right now. Linking two wildly different games like this has never been done before and it had the potential to backfire in a rather spectacular way. It had to start small. The last thing that CCP needed was another summer of rage following a rushed merging of the two games. Then we had a rough period where some core mechanics were very badly in need of attention. I'm not really too interested in why this rough period happened, but I've been a developer for 8 years now. Things simply don't always go the way you hope they will, and what is done is done.
Fear of change, is indeed, what has held this game back. CCP is afraid to mess up the economy. Afraid to annoy their veteran players, and scared of an Incarna reaction. This has led to four EVE expansions with no content, and a DUST that woefully underpromises on the EVE half of it. During Incarna, the player community basically castrated CCP, and they're in a state of paralysis about the players coming back for more.
Unfortunately, CCP needs to realize that for DUST to deliver, CCP has to go "ALL IN", and be willing to change the nature of their game. They no longer live in a space where they have no competitors.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Darken-Soul
BIG BAD W0LVES
462
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 22:19:00 -
[109] - Quote
This should have a blue tag.
Who wants some?
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Your Absolut End
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
363
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Posted - 2014.02.07 22:35:00 -
[110] - Quote
Darken-Soul wrote:This should have a blue tag.
It will never have, truth is easier bearable with closed eyes unfortunately
another one bites the Dust...
Born as Kameira, die as Kameira, my life for the Empress!
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Toro Navajo
Defenders of the Helghast Dream
29
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Posted - 2014.02.07 22:43:00 -
[111] - Quote
Thank you for this post. I'm glad to see and hear that a reasonable and logical discussion is taking place and that the community and CCP is taking note. |
Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
1549
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Posted - 2014.02.07 22:56:00 -
[112] - Quote
Your Absolut End wrote:I indeed think tutorials are needed.
But personaly I don't think CCP should fixate to much on newer players at this moment.
Theres no marketing campaign, no real efforts to drag new players into this game anyways, and besides that it's hard to keep players in a half finished game on an olds console. So lets just face the fact that there is not a huge "new player flow"
IMO the right way to go would is to concentrate on what we already have. Atm we have a somehow stable playerbase, build of mostly hardcore gamers who wanna see this game grow. so instead of letting those players go and hope for newer players join and stay we need to concentrate ion the actual game and especially on the eve/dust link.
It is crucial to extend the game and to build up a direct and feelable connection between those games. this is what dust seperates from other games, and if we let this go, we all just can move on to any other lobby shooter. Heck we wouldn't even have to worry about skillpoint anymore lol.
CCP should use the time on Ps3 to concentrate on building up the game. Once this is done and the game is in a stable good working state and good connection with eve, port it to PS4 with a huge ass advertise campaign=profit.
Selling half baked bread just works for one day.
+1. Agreed 100%. First we have to make the game work, then we can think about new players.
But also there are several short-term low hanging fruit opportunities that could male the NPE a whole lot more palatable.
I support SP rollover.
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Samahiel
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
206
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Posted - 2014.02.08 02:42:00 -
[113] - Quote
Darken-Soul wrote:This should have a blue tag.
Was kinda hoping to see one by now myself.
Either way, we'll be continuing this discussion in this thread and have a few other things on the back burner to bring attention to these pressing issues. |
Dusters Blog
Galactic News Network
628
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Posted - 2014.02.08 02:52:00 -
[114] - Quote
Darken-Soul wrote:This should have a blue tag.
no kidding. QQ thread gets the oil unfortunately.
our battery of questions for CPM1 candidates: http://tinyurl.com/mjvwe7f
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Sigberct Amni
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
380
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Posted - 2014.02.08 04:07:00 -
[115] - Quote
I'm not totally surprised there's no response. A lot ITT to read and consider. Let's hope things are being considered. |
Cat Poo
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
181
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Posted - 2014.02.08 05:11:00 -
[116] - Quote
Luna Angelo wrote:Cat Poo wrote:Luna Angelo wrote:CCP does need better Relations with the Community, and telling us things they're planning would help that. but, but, but, CCPMintchip CCP Mintchip notwithstanding, I stand by my word. And I like how you only quoted the first part.
vOv
your ability to recognize sarcasm is unparalleled in the annals of human history. :slowclap: |
Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1659
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Posted - 2014.02.08 06:06:00 -
[117] - Quote
I'm not too surprised there isn't a blue tag yet. Not only is there a lot in here to go through, but most of the devs are just coming back from vacation now. I imagine it'll be Monday or Tuesday before we see anything more than a token response. |
Eltra Ardell
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
361
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Posted - 2014.02.08 06:06:00 -
[118] - Quote
One of the many ways you can begin to make DUST feel less like a shooter with EVE names and more like a window into New Eden is to make a DUST mercenary exist in EVE. As it is, their "existence" is only an entry in a chat window and an occasional after-the-fact killmail. To Jita, *sec, and every corporation and alliance, a DUST mercenary may as well not exist. They are not entities that firmly exist at some location in space, they do not travel (despite what the district "locations" might have you believe), they cannot fulfill market orders or accept contracts, they cannot even manage a corporation. You will never see a DUST mercenary in Jita because to a DUST mercenary, Jita may as well be a food served in South Africa for all it affects them.
Even the youngest, most clueless EVE player has a larger impact on New Eden than any DUST mercenary (minus those used as catalysts...for EVE characters to conduct espionage). If the galaxy of New Eden were the surface of a lake, every capsuleer is a drop striking the surface. Ripples echo throughout as they drop, striking the surface and changing it by their very existence. The DUST mercenary makes no ripple. One questions if it's even in the same lake at all. |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2923
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Posted - 2014.02.08 08:50:00 -
[119] - Quote
Frankly, I think worrying about Dust mercenary's impact on EVE is putting the cart before the horse.
How about CCP start by finding ways in which Dust mercenaries can have an impact on Dust 514. As it is, we have the joke that is PC, the pointless lobby shooter of the instant queue, and the half-assed Faction Warfare that only differs from the instant queue in a superficial way (the type of currency earned).
For instance, we're nearly a year into the game, and we still can't even team deploy unless it's a match that was set up 24-48 hours in advance. That alone has run off a good 80% of Subdreddit's members. It did no good to have 50-100 guys online, when we can only play in groups of 6. The current queue mechanics means that you have to be in either a highly structured "hardcore" coporation, or basically play with "randoms" and have no way of feeling like you can have an impact on the world of Dust 514. yet, the vast majority of players fall somewhere in the middle. Most players are "semi-casual." They want to find a corporation to play with, log into the game at will, and feel like they are contributing to their "band of brothers." So, why is the majority ignored for the whims of the minority?
Why isn't FW team-deploy? Why can't we see in a clear and concise way which faction owns which planets, and which corporations are supporting which of those factions? Why isn't there a "frontline" mechanic that lets us choose where we want to fight? Does CCP think that Dust 514 players are too stupid to have the same sort of autonomy that they afford EVE players? Because that's the way it feels. It feels like CCP thinks we're all a bunch of blubbering idiots who need our gameplay micromanaged... it's actually sort of insulting.
Why not let us choose which planet and district to attack and defend whenever we want? Why not make FW matches take, say, two or three times as long to complete, but if you choose a district that is undefended you can just walk up and take it? Sure, it might be "boring" to some, but those people that want a fight will choose to fight. Isn't that the whole point of New Eden, giving players THE CHOICE to do what they want? |
Lt Royal
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2700
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Posted - 2014.02.08 09:55:00 -
[120] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote: imagine your on the surface of a FW district, you're messing around, practicing flying dropships or squad tactics, and in comes the enemy MCC. BATTLE COMMENCES.
This^^
Gÿ£GÿàGÿP Subdreddit Recruitment Video Gÿ£GÿàGÿP
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Flint Beastgood III
GunFall Mobilization
Covert Intervention
509
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Posted - 2014.02.08 10:40:00 -
[121] - Quote
Samahiel wrote:The grand vision that made DUST 514 such an inspiring and unique property; the narrative that underlies CCPGÇÖs most successful advertising, reflected in their slogans and interviews; Is a dream as yet unrealized. It will continue to be so until a few basic issues are addressed.
Mercenaries must have the ability to participate directly in the eve economy. Players must enjoy some economic and/or political benefit from the appropriate and inspired strategic application of Dust forces.
Meanwhile, to be invested in the dynamic of the player narrative, they must be able to fully participate in the social milieu of New Eden. The individual mercenary must fit seamlessly and purposefully into the the social dynamic of the corporations and alliances of New Eden.
In brief:
1.) Dust players need to be able to buy and sell on the market with an intrinsic scarcity of goods that inspires trade between mercenaries and between mercenaries and capsuleers.
2.) Dust players need to be able to fulfill contracts from Capsuleers that affect the political landscape of Nullsec, the territorial balance of Faction Warfare, and/or the industrial engine of Highsec in a way that is predictable enough to be strategically applied and countered.
3.) Dust players need to be fully integrated into the corp/alliance structure of eve with a full API, robust communication, and a proper mirroring of roles.
These are certainly not the only issues that plague our game. There are issues of balance, of content, and of the monetization and distribution of skill points that pose serious challenges to the development of DUST. The solution to those issues, though, must be informed by and in service to the fundamental and foundational philosophy of DUST as a facet of the New Eden metagame, and the player base needs a constant and concise sense of feedback on our progress towards those goals.
+1
Gÿó +¦ +¦ Gÿó
Trained Skills
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Hobo on Fire
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
155
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Posted - 2014.02.08 10:47:00 -
[122] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:...We know CCP already has the ability to move the MCCs around on the field in real time, they could do that all the way back in Skirmish 1.0... and it was COOL AS HELL. imagine your on the surface of a FW district, you're messing around, practicing flying dropships or squad tactics, and in comes the enemy MCC. BATTLE COMMENCES....
I kind of get the feeling that mobile MCCs were removed (at least in part) for being buggy as all hell. If they could have them show up out of the blue like you describe, I agree it would be ridiculously awesome.
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Dusters Blog
Galactic News Network
630
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Posted - 2014.02.08 11:00:00 -
[123] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:Why not let us choose which planet and district to attack and defend whenever we want? Why not make FW matches take, say, two or three times as long to complete, but if you choose a district that is undefended you can just walk up and take it? Sure, it might be "boring" to have matches end up as 16 vs 0, but those people that want a fight will choose to fight. Isn't that the whole point of New Eden, giving players THE CHOICE to do what they want? The player base of Dust 514 wants the same feeling of player agency that the players of EVE enjoy. Even just a taste of it. Allowing us to choose our fights in FW would give people that feeling of being able to "walk around on the districts" that we hear people ask for over and over again, it's just if you do so you have to keep an eye out because an enemy faction could roll in on a warbarge and start blasting you in the face.
sounds like a FW conquest mode where capsuleers and dustbunnies to decide what locations to take over. we likey.
our battery of questions for CPM1 candidates: http://tinyurl.com/mjvwe7f
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Flint Beastgood III
GunFall Mobilization
Covert Intervention
509
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Posted - 2014.02.08 11:04:00 -
[124] - Quote
Great thread and discussion.
Just yesterday, I filled out the latest survey which CCP inviting me to take part in via e-mail. I couldn't emphasize enough the need to have clear and consise communication regarding any and all future plans for DUST 514. "Currently no plans to..." and "SoonGäó" just don't cut it!
Survey link - http://ccp.questionpro.com
Survey Structure - Section A = CCP / Section B = EVE / Section C = DUST
Questions? Contact the Research Team - [email protected]
EDIT: Make sure all your corpmates take the survey, especially those who don't use the forums!
Gÿó +¦ +¦ Gÿó
Trained Skills
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Samahiel
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
214
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Posted - 2014.02.08 16:55:00 -
[125] - Quote
Flint Beastgood III wrote:Great thread and discussion. Just yesterday, I filled out the latest survey which CCP inviting me to take part in via e-mail. I couldn't emphasize enough the need to have clear and consise communication regarding any and all future plans for DUST 514. "Currently no plans to..." and "SoonGäó" just don't cut it! Survey link - http://ccp.questionpro.comSurvey Structure - Section A = CCP / Section B = EVE / Section C = DUST Questions? Contact the Research Team - [email protected]EDIT: Make sure all your corpmates take the survey, especially those who don't use the forums!
Oh hey, thanks a lot for that link. I'll certainly be passing it around. |
Serimos Haeraven
The Exemplars
Top Men.
658
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Posted - 2014.02.08 17:06:00 -
[126] - Quote
Flint Beastgood III wrote:Great thread and discussion. Just yesterday, I filled out the latest survey which CCP inviting me to take part in via e-mail. I couldn't emphasize enough the need to have clear and consise communication regarding any and all future plans for DUST 514. "Currently no plans to..." and "SoonGäó" just don't cut it! Survey link - http://ccp.questionpro.comSurvey Structure - Section A = CCP / Section B = EVE / Section C = DUST Questions? Contact the Research Team - [email protected]EDIT: Make sure all your corpmates take the survey, especially those who don't use the forums!
I just filled out the entire survey, I'm glad they have something like this that can allow my message to hopefully come across to CCP, and I also referenced this topic in a few comments just so there's more of a chance the higher-up devs (in Iceland) will see what we have said here.
Tankers are being diagnosed with a new disease; Cancer of the Assault Dropship.
Many of them don't survive.
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Your Absolut End
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
364
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Posted - 2014.02.08 18:49:00 -
[127] - Quote
Don't you let this thread die. It needs to be permanent on page 1, straight in CCP's face! If they wont sticks it, we will sticky it.
another one bites the Dust...
Born as Kameira, die as Kameira, my life for the Empress!
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Baal Roo
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2927
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 19:15:00 -
[128] - Quote
Hobo on Fire wrote:Baal Roo wrote:...We know CCP already has the ability to move the MCCs around on the field in real time, they could do that all the way back in Skirmish 1.0... and it was COOL AS HELL. imagine your on the surface of a FW district, you're messing around, practicing flying dropships or squad tactics, and in comes the enemy MCC. BATTLE COMMENCES.... I kind of get the feeling that mobile MCCs were removed (at least in part) for being buggy as all hell. If they could have them show up out of the blue like you describe, I agree it would be ridiculously awesome.
Good point, and if that is the case, they could just have them "materialize" out of thin air. Just a simple yes/no variable where the MCC is moved way off the map and made invisible until a squad/team queues in. Cue wibbly-wobbly animation of MCC materializing, flip the variable, MCC appears in sky. It's the agency bit that's important, not how it gets animated. |
Eltra Ardell
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
363
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 19:29:00 -
[129] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:Frankly, I think worrying about Dust mercenary's impact on EVE is putting the cart before the horse.
How about CCP start by finding ways in which Dust mercenaries can have an impact on Dust 514.
This is poor thinking. DUST and EVE are not separate games and separate universes. New Eden is the world, and each game is the window. DUST will have DUST things and EVE will have EVE things, but thinking of them as separate beasts is what makes one lose sight of what will make DUST unique and survive beyond years. |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2927
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 19:40:00 -
[130] - Quote
Dusters Blog wrote:Baal Roo wrote:Why not let us choose which planet and district to attack and defend whenever we want? Why not make FW matches take, say, two or three times as long to complete, but if you choose a district that is undefended you can just walk up and take it? Sure, it might be "boring" to have matches end up as 16 vs 0, but those people that want a fight will choose to fight. Isn't that the whole point of New Eden, giving players THE CHOICE to do what they want? The player base of Dust 514 wants the same feeling of player agency that the players of EVE enjoy. Even just a taste of it. Allowing us to choose our fights in FW would give people that feeling of being able to "walk around on the districts" that we hear people ask for over and over again, it's just if you do so you have to keep an eye out because an enemy faction could roll in on a warbarge and start blasting you in the face. sounds like a FW conquest mode where capsuleers and dustbunnies to decide what locations to take over. we likey.
Y'know, the frustrating thing is that I don't feel like I'm suggesting anything revolutionary here. I feel like 19 out of 20 people who read that post are going to think "well yeah, that's how I expected FW to work all along."
What makes the whole thing seem really bizzare, is that the entire infrastructure is already sitting there in place, the only thing that's missing is the player agency... which coming from the developers of EVE Online just seems insane. We already have the map with all the planets and districts, they've already even gone to the trouble of giving us our own awesome version of it, tailor made for the Dust 514 experience. We already have the factions. We already have the EVE capsuleers fighting to create the frontlines. We already have corporation standings. The only thing we don't have is a way to actually leverage all of that hard work they've put in.
I assume there is some sort of real reason why it doesn't already work this way, and if I had to speculate I would think it comes down to 1 of 2 things:
1. Real World Limitations
Maybe they simply don't have the server space to allow us to all choose which district we want to be on. It could be that it would just overload there servers if they don't micromanage exactly how many instances there are up and running at a given time. That's a completely understandable limitation. The fear would be that if we could just queue onto whatever district we wanted, corps would start queueing 1 guy onto each district, and they'd have to have 31 extra instances up and running versus how it works now (instead of 32 people in an instance, there would be 32 maps up with 1 guy on each).
I feel like this could be mitigated by simply requiring 16+ players to queue into a match before the instance will trigger. We already have the "squad finder" in place, so all this would necesitate is expanding how that system works up a step into a FW Deploy Finder (terrible name, but illustrates the concept). If you don't have 16 guys ready to go, you have to fill your team up before the guy who posted the Team into the FW Deploy Finder can choose where you head off to.
2. Fear of Pacifism
The other problem I can forsee is one in which CCP wants us to have to fight. Afterall, this is an FPS, so it makes sense that their initial reaction to the idea might be "yeah, but then everyone would just follow the path of least resistance and avoid fighting one another."
If this is the case, I say "HOGWASH." Look CCP, this is why you have the Salvage System. This is why you have WP. This is why you make ISK, LP, and SP payouts pegged to who the enemy lost in battle. Not only that, but with an open system in which teams have to deploy in groups of 16, a team that wants a fight could simply look at the map and find districts where an enemy team is already deployed.
Besides, if the players end up wanting to avoid fights then why not let us? Why do you care if we fight or not? Why don't you trust us to make our own fun? Is that how you treat EVE Players, with handholding and forcing them to only go to systems where the enemy is located?
Eltra Ardell wrote:Baal Roo wrote:Frankly, I think worrying about Dust mercenary's impact on EVE is putting the cart before the horse.
How about CCP start by finding ways in which Dust mercenaries can have an impact on Dust 514. This is poor thinking. DUST and EVE are not separate games and separate universes. New Eden is the world, and each game is the window. DUST will have DUST things and EVE will have EVE things, but thinking of them as separate beasts is what makes one lose sight of what will make DUST unique and survive beyond years.
I see your point, and I respect your opinion. But on this particular issue I agree with CCP, and I think it's a waste of time to push against what CCP wants here. They want the games to be able to both stand on their own before they integrate them more fully, and I completely understand that line of thinking. EVE already works well without Dust 514, but Dust 514 does not stand on it's own as a complete experience.
The links they have created with EVE are actually pretty cool (like with FW), the problem is simply the Player Agency available on the Dust 514 side. We don't yet have agency to properly influence our own sphere of play, it would be madness to jump past that step and go straight to more heavily influencing some other videogame. Most of the influence we already have on EVE isn't even readily obvious to Dust mercs. So, why would we be worried about digging a bigger tunnel between our two homes, when our own home is still just a mud hut with no windows? Without a clearer goal of how Dust 514 is to work, and more player agency for Dust 514 players, increasing the EVE integration is meaningless. |
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Samahiel
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
214
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Posted - 2014.02.08 21:26:00 -
[131] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:Eltra Ardell wrote:Baal Roo wrote:Frankly, I think worrying about Dust mercenary's impact on EVE is putting the cart before the horse.
How about CCP start by finding ways in which Dust mercenaries can have an impact on Dust 514. This is poor thinking. DUST and EVE are not separate games and separate universes. New Eden is the world, and each game is the window. DUST will have DUST things and EVE will have EVE things, but thinking of them as separate beasts is what makes one lose sight of what will make DUST unique and survive beyond years. I see your point, and I respect your opinion. But on this particular issue I agree with CCP, and I think it's a waste of time to push against what CCP wants here. They want the games to be able to both stand on their own before they integrate them more fully, and I completely understand that line of thinking. EVE already works well without Dust 514, but Dust 514 does not stand on it's own as a complete experience.
This is kind of the gordian knot at the heart of the whole issue. I feel the best way around it is to create stand alone content for dust that gives us a sense of agency, while increasing the social links (mainly through a strong API and market) cross culturally. Then, once you have a healthy dust community with communication lines to eve, can you implement cross platform objectives that provide benefits to both parties. |
lionshead nebula
The Exemplars
Top Men.
11
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Posted - 2014.02.08 22:22:00 -
[132] - Quote
If anything this thread is showing, it's that this community and this game will not thrive on simple QQ. There are great ideas being proposed here, and the debates are respectful, open-minded, and thoughtful. These debates produce the type of long term solution dust needs in order to mature. While we are waiting for that blue tag, irregardless of its improbability, what I feel we need to consider in our propositions is how these talks translate to what the no forum goers of dusts discuss, how they affect forum goers, and ultimately what we are doing to affect the nonforum goers. Talk this up, keep discussing when in game; give Ccp no reason to excuse a lack of official comment/response. |
Erasmus Konstantin
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
14
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Posted - 2014.02.09 04:58:00 -
[133] - Quote
We can't even sit on our fuckin sofas. |
Adelia Lafayette
Science For Death
614
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Posted - 2014.02.09 05:16:00 -
[134] - Quote
this thread is a culmination of my frustration with dust.
Assault dropship gets blown up....
(Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ "Kitten this I'm out"...
..."I'm back"
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Hobo on Fire
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
157
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Posted - 2014.02.09 05:44:00 -
[135] - Quote
If I had the choice of being able to sit on the couch, or switching my local to a different location, I'd rather move and try to run scams on a different batch of pubbies. |
Maken Tosch
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
6765
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Posted - 2014.02.09 07:32:00 -
[136] - Quote
Hobo on Fire wrote:If I had the choice of being able to sit on the couch, or switching my local to a different location, I'd rather move and try to run scams on a different batch of pubbies.
This. Before we even get a secondary market, we need to have the ability to move from system to system and region to region. But even then, planetary conquest needs to be fixed first so that the secondary market won't suffer.
Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer
Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
1551
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Posted - 2014.02.09 08:44:00 -
[137] - Quote
Samahiel wrote:Baal Roo wrote:Eltra Ardell wrote:Baal Roo wrote:Frankly, I think worrying about Dust mercenary's impact on EVE is putting the cart before the horse.
How about CCP start by finding ways in which Dust mercenaries can have an impact on Dust 514. This is poor thinking. DUST and EVE are not separate games and separate universes. New Eden is the world, and each game is the window. DUST will have DUST things and EVE will have EVE things, but thinking of them as separate beasts is what makes one lose sight of what will make DUST unique and survive beyond years. I see your point, and I respect your opinion. But on this particular issue I agree with CCP, and I think it's a waste of time to push against what CCP wants here. They want the games to be able to both stand on their own before they integrate them more fully, and I completely understand that line of thinking. EVE already works well without Dust 514, but Dust 514 does not stand on it's own as a complete experience. This is kind of the gordian knot at the heart of the whole issue. I feel the best way around it is to create stand alone content for dust that gives us a sense of agency, while increasing the social links (mainly through a strong API and market) cross culturally. Then, once you have a healthy dust community with communication lines to eve, can you implement cross platform objectives that provide benefits to both parties.
I agree with CCP's prioritization also. There are still many DUST features that could make the stand-alone gameplay rich and engaging. This primarily involves adding or completing the functionality that was always intended to be in the client.
One possible prioritization would be:
1) Full and robust voice comms much like MAG did it: I'm not going to run down a list of features, we've done that many times before, but the whole motivation for doing comms right is getting peeps connected to each other. This bears directly on the NPE.
2) Corp tools. CCP's had a lot of direct input on this so no need to belabor the point.
3) Full-featured(mailing lists, etc.) DUST/EVE mail system. Presumably we'll eventually have to integrate with Valkyrie also. Hopefully CCP has this fully specced out already. And what about EVEGate? And presumably whatever Unifex is up to will be central to this but i haven't heard a peep out of that project yet.
4) Player trading. Can't see any possible downside to this. Again, more player interaction and communication comes of this.
5) Player contracts - a bit trickier because it needs to eventually dovetail with EVE. But that is not a reason to deprive DUST of the content.
6) Although it increases time-to-match, a minimum 15 seconds in the warbarge will not be wasted. This is how peeps begin to recognize names and corps. There needs to be time to look at the enemy roster and squad up. On a related note why does it take ~ 5 seconds to populate team lists?
7) The 'Last Battle' tab in the Neocom should be persistent - peeps get disconnected, or forget or get rushed and sometimes don't have time to take note of and potentially contact other players. In fact, why not archive all past battles for us mercs? Only good can come of it, especially when we start getting some juicier, more refined player performance stats.
The API and Player Market would be massive boosts to DUST and New Eden - i left them out of the list only because there are technical issues/complexities with both right now, and the systems rightfully belong more to New Eden than either game.
There are no doubt more and better ideas other peeps could add, but even with the basic list above DUST would feel an order of magnitude more meaningful that it does now, and the incomplete state of the game would be a lot more palatable to players. The biggest upside would be that while CCP was getting its core content in place and core mechanics working, the playerbase would be building the social foundations that are the heart and soul of New Eden.
I support SP rollover.
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Zohar Colichemarde
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
19
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Posted - 2014.02.09 09:46:00 -
[138] - Quote
Bumping this thread back up to the front page. It needs to remain there and get as much attention as possible.
I <3 Laser Rocks.
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Akdhar Saif
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
237
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Posted - 2014.02.09 14:57:00 -
[139] - Quote
Zohar Colichemarde wrote:Bumping this thread back up to the front page. It needs to remain there and get as much attention as possible.
..still no blue tags???
Whats taking CCP so long? Maybe they want to avoid the subject completely and "continue making the greatest FPS" minus the MMO. |
lionshead nebula
The Exemplars
Top Men.
14
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Posted - 2014.02.09 16:21:00 -
[140] - Quote
Bumping the thread up top. That blue tag is seemingly hard to obtain. |
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Baal Roo
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2942
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 21:26:00 -
[141] - Quote
Hey guys, CCP are aware of this thread and have already stated that they intend to respond, but it's currently the weekend. Have some patience, there's a lot of content to read through, and formulating an "official" response to this kind of thing can be tricky. |
Zohar Colichemarde
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
20
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 21:36:00 -
[142] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:Hey guys, CCP are aware of this thread and have already stated that they intend to respond, but it's currently the weekend. Have some patience, there's a lot of content to read through, and formulating an "official" response to this kind of thing can be tricky.
Maybe so, but it's still worth letting other folks know who may not have read this thread yet.
I <3 Laser Rocks.
|
Piercing Serenity
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
522
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 01:48:00 -
[143] - Quote
After reading through and agreeing with all nine pages of this thread, I concur with the need for a
Bump
DUST 514 BETA VET
16.2M Lifetime SP
SH4T --> PFBHz --> PFB --> SH4T --> Fatal
|
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
1543
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 12:37:00 -
[144] - Quote
Samahiel pretty much summed up why I only log on to troll or cook up a joke fit solely to **** people off in the game. I've been wanting the EVE-DUST connection since day 1. It's the reason I joined DUST 514.
Right now it's feeling like try hard to go nowhere 514.
I hope this trend changes and dies screaming. |
Your Absolut End
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
367
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 12:37:00 -
[145] - Quote
I wonder when the blie tag will come
another one bites the Dust...
Born as Kameira, die as Kameira, my life for the Empress!
|
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
1543
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 12:42:00 -
[146] - Quote
Your Absolut End wrote:I wonder when the blie tag will come
They won't if they haven't by now. |
lionshead nebula
The Exemplars
Top Men.
15
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Posted - 2014.02.10 14:16:00 -
[147] - Quote
Bump! |
Samahiel
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
231
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 14:47:00 -
[148] - Quote
For actual content: http://dustmercs.blogspot.com/2014/02/eve-sitdown-part-1-goons-talk-dusts.html?m=1 Here's an interview Paradox and I did prompted by this thread. |
Paradoxical Nature
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
90
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 14:51:00 -
[149] - Quote
Subdreddit, as they also did a sit down surrounding the needs for DUST to give us the tools necessary to create our own narrative, will be up tomorrow as far as I understand it.
Hopefully, this will start further discussion about the chasm between what we have now and what we need to thrive. |
Eltra Ardell
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
366
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 18:05:00 -
[150] - Quote
I just hope CCP shifts focus back where it needs to be before I get taken in fully by Monster Hunter. |
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Your Absolut End
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
367
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 19:58:00 -
[151] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Your Absolut End wrote:I wonder when the blie tag will come They won't if they haven't by now.
I know :( but atleast we can keep this alive!
another one bites the Dust...
Born as Kameira, die as Kameira, my life for the Empress!
|
CommanderBolt
ACME SPECIAL FORCES
Legacy Rising
589
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 21:06:00 -
[152] - Quote
Wow goons proposing really good ideas for this game! Mind blown!
But yes I would love to see more persistant battles, I think we all would love the economy to become a real part of this game and I also agree that station capture could really be the thing that gets EVE pilots interested in us mercs down here.
I am surprised there has been no CCP response so far to this thread. I know they have these kind of ideas. I wish they would tell us if they are possible. Does CCP need more money?
Create a form of PLEX for DUST that offers benefits like extra passive SP, some extra cool skins and customisations etc... (MLEX - Merc licence extention). We could even crowd-source some money for actual milestones in development.
I am sure there is a lot of possibility in both money generation and game development. Will CCP go all the way with this game or are they content to sit back? That's what the player base really wants to know. |
Sigberct Amni
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
385
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 22:38:00 -
[153] - Quote
Eltra Ardell wrote:I just hope CCP shifts focus back where it needs to be before I get taken in fully by Monster Hunter.
Monster hunter looks neat and all but just hasn't grabbed me.
I'm sure 1.8 will keep us playing for a bit longer and there's always passive SP for when the shiny wears off. |
Virtual Riot
The Vanguardians
INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
174
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Posted - 2014.02.10 22:47:00 -
[154] - Quote
+1, bump
because more forum goers need to see where the real issues lie
you shouldn't be worried that a RR kills you 1 second faster than an AR
this is the important stuff you should be worried about. |
Roy Ventus
Foxhound Corporation
General Tso's Alliance
1088
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 22:55:00 -
[155] - Quote
CommanderBolt wrote:Wow goons proposing really good ideas for this game! Mind blown!
But yes I would love to see more persistant battles, I think we all would love the economy to become a real part of this game and I also agree that station capture could really be the thing that gets EVE pilots interested in us mercs down here.
I am surprised there has been no CCP response so far to this thread. I know they have these kind of ideas. I wish they would tell us if they are possible. Does CCP need more money?
Create a form of PLEX for DUST that offers benefits like extra passive SP, some extra cool skins and customisations etc... (MLEX - Merc licence extention). We could even crowd-source some money for actual milestones in development.
I am sure there is a lot of possibility in both money generation and game development. Will CCP go all the way with this game or are they content to sit back? That's what the player base really wants to know.
This. Please CCP, give us a solid reason to give you money overtime. Special gear or simple boosters aren't that attractive to me. Passives on different characters for multiple accounts or something.
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
|
Squagga
The State Protectorate
216
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 23:02:00 -
[156] - Quote
You get me WiS you got my vote, no I don't wanna know your policies
Reloading, the silent killer.
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1426
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 23:06:00 -
[157] - Quote
Eltra Ardell wrote:Baal Roo wrote:Frankly, I think worrying about Dust mercenary's impact on EVE is putting the cart before the horse.
How about CCP start by finding ways in which Dust mercenaries can have an impact on Dust 514. This is poor thinking. DUST and EVE are not separate games and separate universes. New Eden is the world, and each game is the window. DUST will have DUST things and EVE will have EVE things, but thinking of them as separate beasts is what makes one lose sight of what will make DUST unique and survive beyond years.
This here. This is the problem EVE players have, and the problem DUST players have, and the problem CCP developers have.
This is not DUST, and this is not EVE. It's New Eden.
One of my biggest frustrations is trying to explain how something works, and be told "This isn't EVE." But the reality is, we are all playing the same game, just from different viewpoints.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
|
Roy Ventus
Foxhound Corporation
General Tso's Alliance
1088
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 23:36:00 -
[158] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Eltra Ardell wrote:Baal Roo wrote:Frankly, I think worrying about Dust mercenary's impact on EVE is putting the cart before the horse.
How about CCP start by finding ways in which Dust mercenaries can have an impact on Dust 514. This is poor thinking. DUST and EVE are not separate games and separate universes. New Eden is the world, and each game is the window. DUST will have DUST things and EVE will have EVE things, but thinking of them as separate beasts is what makes one lose sight of what will make DUST unique and survive beyond years. This here. This is the problem EVE players have, and the problem DUST players have, and the problem CCP developers have. This is not DUST, and this is not EVE. It's New Eden. One of my biggest frustrations is trying to explain how something works, and be told "This isn't EVE." But the reality is, we are all playing the same game, just from different viewpoints.
Mmm...Yes...Yes...
Say it all again to me,
But this time with your clothes off.
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
|
Samahiel
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
237
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 00:17:00 -
[159] - Quote
Roy Ventus wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Eltra Ardell wrote:Baal Roo wrote:Frankly, I think worrying about Dust mercenary's impact on EVE is putting the cart before the horse.
How about CCP start by finding ways in which Dust mercenaries can have an impact on Dust 514. This is poor thinking. DUST and EVE are not separate games and separate universes. New Eden is the world, and each game is the window. DUST will have DUST things and EVE will have EVE things, but thinking of them as separate beasts is what makes one lose sight of what will make DUST unique and survive beyond years. This here. This is the problem EVE players have, and the problem DUST players have, and the problem CCP developers have. This is not DUST, and this is not EVE. It's New Eden. One of my biggest frustrations is trying to explain how something works, and be told "This isn't EVE." But the reality is, we are all playing the same game, just from different viewpoints. Mmm...Yes...Yes... Say it all again to me, But this time with your clothes off.
... go on |
George Moros
Area 514
307
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 06:23:00 -
[160] - Quote
There's so much important stuff being said in this thread that devs should not only respond to this, but sticky it.
That being said, as a former EVE player, I remember the reactions from EVE community when DUST was first announced. They ranged from mild support of the idea to outright disgust, mostly in the sense of "no way I'm gonna let a bunch of console-FPS playing kids ruin my spaceship game!".
However, DUST is here. CCP spent a significant amount of time and money (again, I remember some EVE players whining about CCP spending "their money" to develop a console shooter, instead of improving EVE) into DUST, and it's obvious they'll need to spend more if they want DUST to be successful.
I believe CCP should make some real effort in trying to convince EVE playerbase that DUST is here to stay, that it will have a substantial impact on New Eden affairs, and (the most difficult part) that the impact will be positive and enriching to both EVE and DUST communities.
And this impact simply needs to happen. There's no way around it. If DUST doesn't start affecting EVE in a way that EVE players will actually have to take DUST affairs into account in order to achieve their EVE related goals, DUST will die. If DUST remains just a lobby shooter, it has almost nothing to compete against "mainstream" shooters.
I wondered many times while playing just another pub match - how many of these other 31 guys running around here, shooting each other to get some ISK, XP, and little else, are aware of how much drama, politics, scamming, scheming, deceit, spying and whatnot is happening on the same server they're currently logged in to, and (supposedly) in the same gaming universe?
IMHO, CCP needs to finish and release all basic DUST racial gear ASAP (fanfest at the latest) to make the core game complete, and then focus on making DUST matter in New Eden.
DUST needs to become a true part of New Eden. Both EVE and DUST communities deserve it.
Pulvereus ergo queritor.
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lionshead nebula
The Exemplars
Top Men.
18
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 14:14:00 -
[161] - Quote
Bump! |
Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1445
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 15:00:00 -
[162] - Quote
George Moros wrote:IMHO, CCP needs to finish and release all basic DUST racial gear ASAP (fanfest at the latest) to make the core game complete, and then focus on making DUST matter in New Eden.
Honestly, I sit somewhere around the point where I think EVE integration was more important than any suits beyond the Caldari Assault, Minmatar Logi, Amarr Heavy, and Gallente Scout we all know and love from Chromosome. ;) In many cases, I haven't found the existing racial differences being worth that much consideration in most cases. Though I think 1.8 will have a significant impact on that, and we'll probably see a lot fewer Caldari Assault suits appearing by default.
Also, bump.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
|
Samahiel
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
251
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 17:53:00 -
[163] - Quote
Even more content. The Dust guys did an interview similar to ours with even more good ideas about this bad game.
blog - http://dustmercs.blogspot.com/2014/02/test-talks-dust-514.html
thread - https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=141650&find=unread |
George Moros
Area 514
308
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 19:50:00 -
[164] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:George Moros wrote:IMHO, CCP needs to finish and release all basic DUST racial gear ASAP (fanfest at the latest) to make the core game complete, and then focus on making DUST matter in New Eden. Honestly, I sit somewhere around the point where I think EVE integration was more important than any suits beyond the Caldari Assault, Minmatar Logi, Amarr Heavy, and Gallente Scout we all know and love from Chromosome. ;) In many cases, I haven't found the existing racial differences being worth that much consideration in most cases. Though I think 1.8 will have a significant impact on that, and we'll probably see a lot fewer Caldari Assault suits appearing by default. Also, bump.
From perspective of a (former) EVE player, who knows what really New Eden is, I might just agree with you. However, take into account that not all people who try DUST are former EVE players. A good portion of them probably never even heard of EVE, and have no idea what lies behind the shooter itself (that is, in theory). Such audience would probably first expect some content and variety in core shooter elements, and then if they find it appealing enough, decide to check just how deep the rabbit hole goes (once CCP digs it, of course).
Pulvereus ergo queritor.
|
kiarbanor
S.e.V.e.N.
General Tso's Alliance
310
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 20:27:00 -
[165] - Quote
George Moros wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:George Moros wrote:IMHO, CCP needs to finish and release all basic DUST racial gear ASAP (fanfest at the latest) to make the core game complete, and then focus on making DUST matter in New Eden. Honestly, I sit somewhere around the point where I think EVE integration was more important than any suits beyond the Caldari Assault, Minmatar Logi, Amarr Heavy, and Gallente Scout we all know and love from Chromosome. ;) In many cases, I haven't found the existing racial differences being worth that much consideration in most cases. Though I think 1.8 will have a significant impact on that, and we'll probably see a lot fewer Caldari Assault suits appearing by default. Also, bump. From perspective of a (former) EVE player, who knows what really New Eden is, I might just agree with you. However, take into account that not all people who try DUST are former EVE players. A good portion of them probably never even heard of EVE, and have no idea what lies behind the shooter itself (that is, in theory). Such audience would probably first expect some content and variety in core shooter elements, and then if they find it appealing enough, decide to check just how deep the rabbit hole goes (once CCP digs it, of course).
Now, this is what I've been thinking for a very long time. Who's the audience? What player base is CCP wanting to tap into for this game? I think that's where you have to start with any of these discussions. I like almost all the points being brought up in this entire thread, but before you can help solve the equation--"help" is the key word--you have to understand the foundation of every single game ever released, which is "who is going to pay for this?"
Once you figure that out, then you can determine how to get that particular group to spend real money. I'm not saying people on here, but a lot of the Dust player base seems to forget that this is a business; this is a product; and the main goal of almost all businesses is to make money.
If the audience of this game is supposed to be current or past EvE players, then there has to be more elements and connection to the EvE side, as stated in the original post.
If the audience of this game is the Battlefield or Call of Duty gamers, then what is said right above is the heart of the issue; they need a clean FPS environment and mechanics before anything else. They don't need to understand what's going on in EvE; they don't need a connection. They need excellent game modes and creative environments. All of the EvE ties can come later.
I think CCP is honestly trying to attract both of these audiences at the same time, and that's where the issues exist. They don't know who should be satisfied first; so, they attempt to do make adjustments with half their energy on one group and half on the other, which gives the current playerbase 50% satisfaction.
In my humble opinion, they need to make a decision on their primary audience and then put 100% of their resources to making that group happy (happy = $$$). After that's done, then they can go back and try to expand their playerbase to include the other. |
Hobo on Fire
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
166
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 20:45:00 -
[166] - Quote
I think your forgetting another chunk of the playerbase: people who have heard of/are interested by Eve but don't want to play it.
I've heard stories about all the crazy things that happen in Eve for years, and have always been fascinated by it. Everytime I watched some gameplay videos or read a write up of some huge battle, my reaction has been that it looks too much like work or is far too slow paced to keep my interest. As an actual SA goon I would have a foot in the door with one of the most powerful alliances in Eve, but it's not enough to make me want to play... I'm content to sit back and wait for the next article about 2000 people logged into a single battle and shooting at each other.
I was attracted to Dust because it was a way to get involved in New Eden's crazy MMO aspect, while playing a more conventional, faster paced game. I've stuck around for almost a year now because f the people I play with, and CCP's promise that one day Dust will actually make a difference in New Eden, which they have yet to deliver on.
I've said it before, CCP doesn't have the resources to make Dust the next Call of Duty or Battlefield; it will never compete with the big boys as a pure FPS. The MMO aspect is where it can stand out and make a real name for itself, because CCP has already made an MMO so interesting people who don't even play it have an interest in it's workings, politics and battles. |
Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1456
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 20:53:00 -
[167] - Quote
kiarbanor, while I understand your perspective, the issue is that, whether you realize it or not, an EVE tie is the most important element to players who have never even heard of EVE. The EVE connection will make the game a sandbox, what it was intended to be, and what it's marketed to be. The EVE connection stuff we're championing, and I'm basing almost every post I make on, is something that will benefit DUST as a game. DUST isn't meant to be "an FPS" and it has never been marketed as "an FPS". It's an MMOFPS where politics, intelligence, and business are as important, if not more important than actually gunplay. What you do off the battlefield should have always been just as important as what you do on it.
Game mechanics that are even, from your perspective, are a part of DUST gameplay, are technically related to the EVE link, by design. Which means the single, understaffed team responsible for EVE/DUST link (Team True Grit) is responsible for implementing them.
Do you realize that FacWar and Planetary Conquest as a whole are more or less baked in as True Grit's responsibility, and part of the EVE/DUST link? Without EVE/DUST link, neither game mode is more than a Skirmish match as far as the DUST developers are concerned.
EVE link affects this game at every level, and not just for people who have even heard of EVE. The sandbox components offered by an EVE link focus allow a far deeper gameplay experience for players who never have even heard of EVE.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Baal Roo
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2951
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 20:58:00 -
[168] - Quote
Hobo on Fire wrote:I think your forgetting another chunk of the playerbase: people who have heard of/are interested by Eve but don't want to play it.
I've heard stories about all the crazy things that happen in Eve for years, and have always been fascinated by it. Every time I watched some gameplay videos or read a write up of some huge battle though, my reaction has been that it looks too much like work or is far too slow paced to keep my interest. As an actual SA goon I would have a foot in the door with one of the most powerful alliances in Eve, but it's not enough to make me want to play... I'm content to sit back and wait for the next article about 2000 people logged into a single battle and shooting at each other.
I was attracted to Dust because it was a way to get involved in New Eden's crazy MMO aspect, while playing a more conventional, faster paced game. I've stuck around for almost a year now because of the people I play with, and CCP's promise that one day Dust will actually make a difference in New Eden, which they have yet to deliver on.
I've said it before, CCP doesn't have the resources to make Dust the next Call of Duty or Battlefield; it will never compete with the big boys as a pure FPS. The MMO aspect is where it can stand out and make a real name for itself, because CCP has already made an MMO so interesting people who don't even play it have an interest in it's workings, politics and battles.
I think you're touching on what most of us are expressing in here. However I just want to point out that Dust 514 is, in and of itself, part of New Eden. So, when we all say that we are waiting for the day "Dust will actually make a difference in New Eden" really all this requires is for Dust to make a difference in Dust, which it currently doesn't do. There's no real clear impact of our actions, even within the confines of Dust's little corner of New Eden. Sure, PC technically has some benefits with the fact that the corps holding districts make extra ISK, but that's really all it is: extra ISK for pre-scheduled battles (and an abstracted representation of their holdings in the form of a little colored dot on a map that no one looks at).
If CCP can find ways in which the decisions and actions of Dust 514 players can be seen and felt by the people logging in and playing Dust 514 day to day, then we're starting to get somewhere. But, until Dust 514 players can effect the world in which Dust 514 players currently inhabit (even claiming that we inhabit a world at all is a stretch), it doesn't make sense for us to be worried about how we effect the world of the EVE player.
Furthermore, I think we can all spitball specific ideas about how to approach this all day, but in the end CCP are the developers. It's their vision and they'll do things the way they want to do them. I think our time, as players looking to give feedback, is to make sure they don't lose track of the broader vision that they originally sold us on, and the vision that most of us are waiting to see realized. I don't care how they go about make the game feel more cohesive, or how they go about making it feel like we're all having an impact on a living and breathing universe populated by us, all we should care about is that CCP understands that this is something they have not achieved and that the player base thinks these things are of the upmost importance. |
Glass Zeraki
The Phoenix Federation
10
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 21:12:00 -
[169] - Quote
Awesome thread is awesome.
Director of The Phoenix Federation. Shut up or I'll mute you.
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kiarbanor
S.e.V.e.N.
General Tso's Alliance
310
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 22:05:00 -
[170] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:kiarbanor, while I understand your perspective, the issue is that, whether you realize it or not, an EVE tie is the most important element to players who have never even heard of EVE. The EVE connection will make the game a sandbox, what it was intended to be, and what it's marketed to be. The EVE connection stuff we're championing, and I'm basing almost every post I make on, is something that will benefit DUST as a game. DUST isn't meant to be "an FPS" and it has never been marketed as "an FPS". It's an MMOFPS where politics, intelligence, and business are as important, if not more important than actually gunplay. What you do off the battlefield should have always been just as important as what you do on it.
Game mechanics that are even, from your perspective, are a part of DUST gameplay, are technically related to the EVE link, by design. Which means the single, understaffed team responsible for EVE/DUST link (Team True Grit) is responsible for implementing them.
Do you realize that FacWar and Planetary Conquest as a whole are more or less baked in as True Grit's responsibility, and part of the EVE/DUST link? Without EVE/DUST link, neither game mode is more than a Skirmish match as far as the DUST developers are concerned.
EVE link affects this game at every level, and not just for people who have even heard of EVE. The sandbox components offered by an EVE link focus allow a far deeper gameplay experience for players who never have even heard of EVE.
I definitely understand your opinion, Soraya, and I don't discredit any of the posts on here about the need to have the link between Dust and EvE more pronounced or comprehensive. But how do you sell the "simple not stupid" console gamer on a game without a true identity?
Your opinion is that you sell them on the link between Dust and EvE and the universe of New Eden (that is, a link that can potentially be there). That's fine. Others will say they need to tap into the Battlefield or Call of Duty market, especially with the Battlefield franchise in a state of incompetence.
Who has the money?
The main point is that if it doesn't have a true identity, the intended audience will flounder and fade. CCP needs to decide the direction they want to go and clearly define it to all those that are interested in reading or hearing about it. As of right now, it's a very poor FPS, and I don't see any MMO worth mentioning.
I, personally, just want them to focus on one aspect and get that 100% right, then move onto the other aspects. If that aspect is the connection between Dust and EvE, then for all that's holy, please get it done quick and done right. |
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Samahiel
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
259
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 23:41:00 -
[171] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:I think you guys are both actually touching on what most of us are expressing in here.
However I just want to point out that Dust 514 is, in and of itself, part of New Eden.
So, when we all say that we are waiting for the day "Dust will actually make a difference in New Eden" really all this requires is for Dust to make a difference in Dust, which it currently doesn't do. There's no real clear impact of our actions, even within the confines of Dust's little corner of New Eden. Sure, PC technically has some benefits with the fact that the corps holding districts make extra ISK, but that's really all it is: extra ISK for pre-scheduled battles (and an abstracted representation of their holdings in the form of a little colored dot on a map that no one looks at).
If CCP can find ways in which the decisions and actions of Dust 514 players can be seen and felt by the people logging in and playing Dust 514 day to day, then we're starting to get somewhere. But, until Dust 514 players can effect the world in which Dust 514 players currently inhabit (even claiming that we inhabit a world at all is a stretch), it doesn't make sense for us to be worried about how we effect the world of the EVE player.
Furthermore, I think we can all spitball specific ideas about how to approach this all day, but in the end CCP are the developers. It's their vision and they'll do things the way they want to do them. I think our time, as players looking to give feedback, is best utilized making sure they don't lose track of the broader vision that they originally sold us on, and the vision that most of us are waiting to see realized. I don't care how they go about make the game feel more cohesive, or how they go about making it feel like we're all having an impact on a living and breathing universe populated by us, all we should care about is that CCP understands that this is something they have not achieved and that the player base thinks these things are of the utmost importance.
I think making good decisions for how to make the world of Dust 514 persistent and meaningful, and allowing dust mercs and corps to feel as if they are actually participating in an MMO-like environment will naturally dovetail with Eve: Online. If they focus on these goals with Dust 514, the connections that can be made to strengthen the connection between the two will be much more evident.
This is absolutely spot on 100% THE POINT of all this. More than anything Dust has to have a meaningful and validating sense of accomplishment within Dust. Furthermore all the playing at "Junior detective Gaming Designer" is fun, but in the end it's CCPs job. Our job here is to hold them accountable and give good feedback on their decisions. With our forum posts at least, and with our dollar votes at worst. |
John McLeish
Aussie Galactic Special Force
3
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 10:04:00 -
[172] - Quote
Samahiel wrote:This is absolutely spot on 100% THE POINT of all this. More than anything Dust has to have a meaningful and validating sense of accomplishment within Dust. Furthermore all the playing at "Junior detective Gaming Designer" is fun, but in the end it's CCPs job. Our job here is to hold them accountable and give good feedback on their decisions. With our forum posts at least, and with our dollar votes at worst.
I agree with you. However I think that a big part of this is CCP has set a precedent that actively listens to it's player base, as set by EVE players. Which I've always thought was a good thing. CCP had an idea for a cool Space MMO and the players molded it with CCP, instead of sitting back and waiting for the next update.
IMHO developer and player working together to make a game can only benefit everyone. Two heads are better than one. Of course at the end of the day it's the developers decision to decide weather or not to take the advice of players and players shouldn't complain once the developers decide on what to do. |
Samahiel
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
261
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 00:02:00 -
[173] - Quote
Welp, I believe we've received a pretty clear response from CCP here. |
Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1474
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 00:15:00 -
[174] - Quote
kiarbanor wrote:I definitely understand your opinion, Soraya, and I don't discredit any of the posts on here about the need to have the link between Dust and EvE more pronounced or comprehensive. But how do you sell the "simple not stupid" console gamer on a game without a true identity?
Your opinion is that you sell them on the link between Dust and EvE and the universe of New Eden (that is, a link that can potentially be there). That's fine. Others will say they need to tap into the Battlefield or Call of Duty market, especially with the Battlefield franchise in a state of incompetence.
Who has the money?
The main point is that if it doesn't have a true identity, the intended audience will flounder and fade. CCP needs to decide the direction they want to go and clearly define it to all those that are interested in reading or hearing about it. As of right now, it's a very poor FPS, and I don't see any MMO worth mentioning.
I, personally, just want them to focus on one aspect and get that 100% right, then move onto the other aspects. If that aspect is the connection between Dust and EvE, then for all that's holy, please get it done quick and done right.
I don't think it's even fair to assume console players are "simple". Or looking for simple. Many console players have cried for a proper MMO on consoles for years.
CCP doesn't have much experience making a good FPS. I think all of us can agree they're doing, optimistically speaking, a halfway mediocre job. Meanwhile, both Battlefield and Call of Duty, for all their business follies, are still incredibly well-produced products.
CCP can't compete in the FPS market. It will never be able to be compared on the same spreadsheet as CoD and BF. But it can be a unique game that people play because it has no competitors. But CCP can create a great MMO. They have ten years of experience making a great MMO. And if people have a great MMO tied to a mediocre shooter, the shooting elements become more tolerable.
In EVE, combat is a large part of the game. But it's not the "majority" of the game either. So when very stupid things happen in combat, like a server node failure killing a bunch of our dreadnoughts, we put up with it, because the overall game is good. Right now, DUST is all combat. There's nothing outside the combat. And the combat is "not great". So the game, as a whole, is "not great".
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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RydogV
Shadow Company HQ
Lokun Listamenn
656
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 00:45:00 -
[175] - Quote
Op, while I appreciate your well thought out, articulate and concise 'manifesto', I cannot subscribe.
The Meta Game. Yes we have all heard the stories of its epic epic-ness. And we all want it to permeate every aspect of this so-called MMO/FPS. But based on the speed that the development snail crawls around here, it cannot and should not be a resource priority. Not for awhile anyway.
We are slowly creeping up on the two year mark. Two years of broken Corporate Contracts, broken New Player Experience, broken Faction Warfare, broken Planetary Conquest. Two years of Skirmish. Two years...one game mode. (Sorry but Ambush is not a game mode, it is a travesty in a game like this.)
I can tick off about six other shooters I have played since I started playing Dust 514. No...I don't keep coming back. I never left. But I certainly play less. A lot less. Six other shooters, all because I am bored to tears. Drink my tears. They are good to the last drop.
You don't know how bad I would have liked to have given CCP the money I spent on those six other shooters. How bad I would have liked the hours and hours I spent playing those games to have been spent in the Burn Zone. First and foremost a game has to be fun. If it isn't fun, then it isn't a game. Putting the word game after the word meta, doesn't make it a game.
Bring on the Meta Game...but before you do, bring on the content. Two years. Here's to the next two years. May it involve playing less 'other stuff'. |
Damian Crisis
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
52
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 00:47:00 -
[176] - Quote
I made sure to show a lot of emphasis for the fact that DUST 514 needs to be more open or at least very much matter to Eve Online.
I don't like seeing things blink Blue...
|
Damian Crisis
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
53
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 01:07:00 -
[177] - Quote
I just crossed promote this thread in the forum
see here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1831797#post1831797
It has become an inception of thread posting and bumping.
I don't like seeing things blink Blue...
|
Samahiel
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
265
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 01:26:00 -
[178] - Quote
When we are stripped of purpose, of content, and our firends we will always have our posting. |
kiarbanor
S.e.V.e.N.
General Tso's Alliance
314
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 01:33:00 -
[179] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:kiarbanor wrote:I definitely understand your opinion, Soraya, and I don't discredit any of the posts on here about the need to have the link between Dust and EvE more pronounced or comprehensive. But how do you sell the "simple not stupid" console gamer on a game without a true identity?
Your opinion is that you sell them on the link between Dust and EvE and the universe of New Eden (that is, a link that can potentially be there). That's fine. Others will say they need to tap into the Battlefield or Call of Duty market, especially with the Battlefield franchise in a state of incompetence.
Who has the money?
The main point is that if it doesn't have a true identity, the intended audience will flounder and fade. CCP needs to decide the direction they want to go and clearly define it to all those that are interested in reading or hearing about it. As of right now, it's a very poor FPS, and I don't see any MMO worth mentioning.
I, personally, just want them to focus on one aspect and get that 100% right, then move onto the other aspects. If that aspect is the connection between Dust and EvE, then for all that's holy, please get it done quick and done right. I don't think it's even fair to assume console players are "simple". Or looking for simple. Many console players have cried for a proper MMO on consoles for years. CCP doesn't have much experience making a good FPS. I think all of us can agree they're doing, optimistically speaking, a halfway mediocre job. Meanwhile, both Battlefield and Call of Duty, for all their business follies, are still incredibly well-produced products. CCP can't compete in the FPS market. It will never be able to be compared on the same spreadsheet as CoD and BF. But it can be a unique game that people play because it has no competitors. But CCP can create a great MMO. They have ten years of experience making a great MMO. And if people have a great MMO tied to a mediocre shooter, the shooting elements become more tolerable. In EVE, combat is a large part of the game. But it's not the "majority" of the game either. So when very stupid things happen in combat, like a server node failure killing a bunch of our dreadnoughts, we put up with it, because the overall game is good. Right now, DUST is all combat. There's nothing outside the combat. And the combat is "not great". So the game, as a whole, is "not great".
I didn't say all console players are "simple." Plus, simple is not a bad word. It references those console players that don't want to work toward building a game with true depth; they just want a finished product. How do you convince this large group that they should invest in Dust? Or should they even be Dust's audience?
I can't tell you how many friends I convinced to give Dust a try--hard sell--but the large majority gave it one shot (if that) and never played it again. It was almost impossible to sell them on this game because it doesn't have a clear or solid foundation of identity; all it has is potential.
And it doesn't have an identity because CCP is trying to do too much at once. So, like I stated above, CCP needs to focus on one aspect and get it 100% right. We can discuss all day long what that aspect should be.
I don't agree with you that Dust can't compete with CoD or Battlefield, though. How many F2P FPSs are out there on PS3? None that I know of. You may not be able to compete with mechanics, graphics, or destructible environments, but it's a FREE FPS. No $60 needed. That's a pretty solid marketing slogan.
My request through all of this is for CCP to define Dust's true identity--based on the player base they want to capture--and then put all their resources to fix, create, and implement game dynamics to make that player base happy.
|
Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1475
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 02:13:00 -
[180] - Quote
kiarbanor wrote:I didn't say all console players are "simple." Plus, simple is not a bad word. It references those console players that don't want to work toward building a game with true depth; they just want a finished product. How do you convince this large group that they should invest in Dust? Or should they even be Dust's audience?
Those players would probably rather play Call of Duty or Battlefield, and probably always will.
kiarbanor wrote:I can't tell you how many friends I convinced to give Dust a try--hard sell--but the large majority gave it one shot (if that) and never played it again. It was almost impossible to sell them on this game because it doesn't have a clear or solid foundation of identity; all it has is potential.
Sure, I am in the same boat. Almost all of them were disappointed that the game got no further than just being an FPS.
kiarbanor wrote:I don't agree with you that Dust can't compete with CoD or Battlefield, though. How many F2P FPSs are out there on PS3? None that I know of. You may not be able to compete with mechanics, graphics, or destructible environments, but it's a FREE FPS. No $60 needed. That's a pretty solid marketing slogan.
DUST is a free to play game, but it also needs to make money. Free players aren't customers. They're potential customers. They both provide gameplay for your paying customers, and a hope, prayer, and chance that inevitably you can convince them to buy something. Realistically, the players CCP needs to make this game affordable and sustainable, is players willing to shell out more than $60 to play the game. So when you look at who CCP actually needs to appeal to most, it's people who would probably rather shell out $60 to go play CoD or Battlefield because it has destructible environments and prettier graphics. Players who never spend money are indeed a valuable resource in a F2P game, if only because they provide enough people for matchmaking to work right, but free players does not equal profit.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
886
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 06:16:00 -
[181] - Quote
OMG! OP, your post just helped me realize that the sky is blue! Vote for Pedro!
PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
|
Sigberct Amni
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
390
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 07:00:00 -
[182] - Quote
Ludvig Enraga wrote:OMG! OP, your post just helped me realize that the sky is blue! Vote for Pedro!
The sky is blue but I dont know where pedro stands on abortion so I can't in good conscious offer my support. |
Samahiel
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
268
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 14:51:00 -
[183] - Quote
Sigberct Amni wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:OMG! OP, your post just helped me realize that the sky is blue! Vote for Pedro! The sky is blue but I dont know where pedro stands on abortion so I can't in good conscious offer my support.
Just looked outside, that ***** grey. I say Pedro's a flip flopper who needs to tell us his REAL stance on skies and colors and chem-trails. |
Akdhar Saif
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
274
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 22:52:00 -
[184] - Quote
Bump for blue tags. |
da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
297
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 23:14:00 -
[185] - Quote
Hobo on Fire wrote:I think your forgetting another chunk of the playerbase: people who have heard of/are interested by Eve but don't want to play it.
I've heard stories about all the crazy things that happen in Eve for years, and have always been fascinated by it. Every time I watched some gameplay videos or read a write up of some huge battle though, my reaction has been that it looks too much like work or is far too slow paced to keep my interest. As an actual SA goon I would have a foot in the door with one of the most powerful alliances in Eve, but it's not enough to make me want to play... I'm content to sit back and wait for the next article about 2000 people logged into a single battle and shooting at each other.
I was attracted to Dust because it was a way to get involved in New Eden's crazy MMO aspect, while playing a more conventional, faster paced game. I've stuck around for almost a year now because of the people I play with, and CCP's promise that one day Dust will actually make a difference in New Eden, which they have yet to deliver on.
I've said it before, CCP doesn't have the resources to make Dust the next Call of Duty or Battlefield; it will never compete with the big boys as a pure FPS. The MMO aspect is where it can stand out and make a real name for itself, because CCP has already made an MMO so interesting people who don't even play it have an interest in it's workings, politics and battles.
Exactly the reason most of us are here, the FPS experience is ok... but honestly if we had more of that link between us and EVE like boarding titans and being on an EVE players ship to get to another planet and such would be enough to make up for the FPS part right now.
Don't make it easy for them, take a few down with you.
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Sigberct Amni
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
397
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 06:27:00 -
[186] - Quote
Hobo on Fire wrote:I think your forgetting another chunk of the playerbase: people who have heard of/are interested by Eve but don't want to play it.
I've heard stories about all the crazy things that happen in Eve for years, and have always been fascinated by it. Every time I watched some gameplay videos or read a write up of some huge battle though, my reaction has been that it looks too much like work or is far too slow paced to keep my interest. As an actual SA goon I would have a foot in the door with one of the most powerful alliances in Eve, but it's not enough to make me want to play... I'm content to sit back and wait for the next article about 2000 people logged into a single battle and shooting at each other.
I was attracted to Dust because it was a way to get involved in New Eden's crazy MMO aspect, while playing a more conventional, faster paced game. I've stuck around for almost a year now because of the people I play with, and CCP's promise that one day Dust will actually make a difference in New Eden, which they have yet to deliver on.
I've said it before, CCP doesn't have the resources to make Dust the next Call of Duty or Battlefield; it will never compete with the big boys as a pure FPS. The MMO aspect is where it can stand out and make a real name for itself, because CCP has already made an MMO so interesting people who don't even play it have an interest in it's workings, politics and battles.
This is me, another homeless who may be ablaze. |
Samahiel
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
280
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 15:24:00 -
[187] - Quote
Sigberct Amni wrote:Hobo on Fire wrote:I think your forgetting another chunk of the playerbase: people who have heard of/are interested by Eve but don't want to play it.
I've heard stories about all the crazy things that happen in Eve for years, and have always been fascinated by it. Every time I watched some gameplay videos or read a write up of some huge battle though, my reaction has been that it looks too much like work or is far too slow paced to keep my interest. As an actual SA goon I would have a foot in the door with one of the most powerful alliances in Eve, but it's not enough to make me want to play... I'm content to sit back and wait for the next article about 2000 people logged into a single battle and shooting at each other.
I was attracted to Dust because it was a way to get involved in New Eden's crazy MMO aspect, while playing a more conventional, faster paced game. I've stuck around for almost a year now because of the people I play with, and CCP's promise that one day Dust will actually make a difference in New Eden, which they have yet to deliver on.
I've said it before, CCP doesn't have the resources to make Dust the next Call of Duty or Battlefield; it will never compete with the big boys as a pure FPS. The MMO aspect is where it can stand out and make a real name for itself, because CCP has already made an MMO so interesting people who don't even play it have an interest in it's workings, politics and battles. This is me, another homeless who may be ablaze.
The preferred nomenclature is thermally-active-residentially-challenged-american. Check yo housing privilege, cis-thermal scum.
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Sigberct Amni
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
400
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 16:26:00 -
[188] - Quote
I have been shown who is the boss! |
Zohar Colichemarde
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
28
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 06:24:00 -
[189] - Quote
Bumping this back up to the front page.
I <3 Laser Rocks.
|
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
889
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 06:28:00 -
[190] - Quote
Sigberct Amni wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:OMG! OP, your post just helped me realize that the sky is blue! Vote for Pedro! The sky is blue but I dont know where pedro stands on abortion so I can't in good conscious offer my support.
Yeah man, abortion is def the the defining issue in modern politics, just like gay rights - there is just nothing else left to solve in the world 
PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
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Kekklian Noobatronic
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
464
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 06:41:00 -
[191] - Quote
I've been out of the game for some 5 months now(work reasons).. But even before I left, I was getting burned out, due to lack of basically everything OP mentioned. I was really hoping things would be closer to 'on track' when I returned, but sadly the only changes I've seen have been in game mechanics and balancing. Not a single truly major change.
I'll certainly be playing again when I get home in a couple weeks, but how long I keep playing? Well, I suppose it's up to CCP really. We really need some serious direction and about this games future pushed down to the masses. Sure, balance changes are great, but when that's the only trick you've shown for over a year? That's pretty disappointing. |
Samahiel
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
282
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 03:17:00 -
[192] - Quote
The Word of Lowtax
The Book of Samahiel 1:11
1 The words of the Samahiel, the son of Lowtax, king in New Eden.
2 Vanity of vanities, saith the Squad Leader, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.
3 What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun?
4 One generation of newbs passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the tryhards abideth for ever.
5 The server also ariseth, and the server goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.
6 The balance goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the whine returneth again according to its circuits.
7 All the players queue into the match; yet the match is not full; unto the quarters from whence the players come, thither they return again.
8 All things are full of grinding; mercs cannot utter it: the eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor the ear filled with hearing.
9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing in the release.
10 Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.
11 There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after. |
lionshead nebula
The Exemplars
Top Men.
20
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 20:36:00 -
[193] - Quote
All we could hope for is an acknowledgement from a dev that at least some fruit of the discussions had here entered the labyrinthine minds of the dev teams and as most decent discussions on these forums, this thread has proved reasonable yet stifled. |
Akdhar Saif
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
332
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 20:53:00 -
[194] - Quote
SUPER-NECRO-BUMP!!!!
There's no way a Dev can ignore this now.
Blue Tags Please! |
John McLeish
Science For Death
3
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 22:34:00 -
[195] - Quote
Have the Devs responded to this anywhere? I remember someone posting that CCP Saberwing had said he'd seen the thread on twitter. I'm wondering if the response is there as well or perhaps the response will be in the next dev blog entry. |
Akdhar Saif
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
333
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 22:45:00 -
[196] - Quote
John McLeish wrote:Have the Devs responded to this anywhere? I remember someone posting that CCP Saberwing had said he'd seen the thread on twitter. I'm wondering if the response is there as well or perhaps the response will be in the next dev blog entry.
Yeah, Sabrewing said he read the thread but there hasn't been any kind of official reply. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
11269
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 22:46:00 -
[197] - Quote
The forums need a whole lot more of this
Videos / Fiction
Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
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Sigberct Amni
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
440
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 00:43:00 -
[198] - Quote
Akdhar Saif wrote:SUPER-NECRO-BUMP!!!!
There's no way a Dev can ignore this now.
Blue Tags Please!
You say that and yet, here we are. |
al nize mk2
DUST University
Ivy League
21
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 22:34:00 -
[199] - Quote
I've been fascinated by this thread - obviously I'm not an EVE player and I'm pretty dreadful at DUST. But I am dedicated to DUST for many of the same reasons as better players and it seems EVE veterans.
I think there are problems and plenty of things need sorting out - but the potential is massive and so I will be hanging in there until something really horrific happens that puts me off. I like FPS games a lot but I also like RPG elements cropping up in seemingly diverse genres. Your squad levelling up in PES during master league for example. Demon's Souls was a magnificent hybrid that a fair few of my more casual gamer friends managed to get into.
DUST should seize this hybrid quality and milk it - they need to explain the SP system and the Dropsuit system much much better when you first download the game. Anyway that's an old complaint.
What i really want as a non-hardcore non-rpg-playing console casual pigdog are these things
1) I want to OWN things in the world and I want to defend them with my team, my squad, mercs I've paid for. Give me an editor, let me buy some land on some godforsaken planet and let me build a cr^ppy castle on it. Then let me defend it with my life like some sort of weird Gallente pioneer.
2) PUT ME INTO THE EVE UNIVERSE! You want DUST players to feel the love? Put us into the universe and start letting us affect it instantly. Send us into these big spaceships I keep hearing about and give us the chance to fight for it.. Or defend it.. or sabotage it or whatever.
3) You want us to grind? GREAT! BUT MAKE IT LESS HORRIFYING! give us a different way to grind other than blindly flailing amongst proto-stompers bullets and getting shot in the head 20 times before we've even turned around. Include a realistic grinding game option. You can send squads into hologram style training deck where they battle NPC's - you get less for doing it but you get something - and you learn and you don't lose precious clones every time you die because it's training - but it costs you time and patience. Or... why not send squads on hunts throughout the further reaches of the various systems. They can hunt local wildlife and yeah they can die but it's a lot easier and you can try out weapons and you earn experience/SP/maybe ISK.. You get a lot less but you get some and you learn as you go...
So really I don't think the game needs to be this dream AAA shooter that drags the COD/Battlefield crowd into it's clutches. Ain't gonna happen - those boys and girls are not budging. But DUST can be so much more and can pull in a massive crowd of people in the middle - people who love shooters but also enjoy the RPG elements and MMO elements that EVE is famous for.
If the game does stuff like this in the near future - hell I will stump up a monthly subscription instead of the off 4 quid here and there. I love DUST but call me selfish... I WANT MORE!!! 
GÇ£All that I know most surely about morality and obligations I owe to football.GÇ¥
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Baal Roo
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2997
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 23:20:00 -
[200] - Quote
2 weeks, 200 posts, and no blue tag. |
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Akdhar Saif
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
338
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 00:05:00 -
[201] - Quote
Obligatory Bump. |
Samahiel
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
293
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 15:44:00 -
[202] - Quote
After my last post I took a break from this thread, and went back to focusing on making content for my line members (I also spent a good chunk of that camping N3 into 0-W). This far into the thread, the continued response is nice to see.
I have a feeling the CCP Rouge is laying the foundation for some big changes that will be announced at fanfest. My fear at this point, is that with the lack of expectation management and feedback, if the announcement isn't absolutely brilliant it will cause more damage than good to the community.
I guess we'll wait and see; Unfortunately for Dust an increasing number of our fellow players will do neither. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2948
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 15:57:00 -
[203] - Quote
I think we have to accept that this is a lobby shooter until they have a better platform (PS4) to work with.
Personally I believe the announcement should be a high level idea of what that might look like and entail. But ultimately they should provide various lobby shooter style game modes while we wait.
ML Director
Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
|
Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
1674
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 16:08:00 -
[204] - Quote
From my point of view announcements at this point are almost counter-productive. I wouldn't want to say anything until i had delivered real improvement to the game as measured by the quality of the player experience, for vets and new players. Content that took broken/incomplete systems and made them not merely functional but enjoyable.
The suit content we know is coming doesn't count - it's a neccessary prerequisite to fill out the racial suits, but it's nothing that indicates CCP is ready to do what it takes to make the game succeed while maintaining integrity with the principles of New Eden.
I support SP rollover.
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Baal Roo
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
3004
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 22:09:00 -
[205] - Quote
Samahiel wrote:After my last post I took a break from this thread, and went back to focusing on making content for my line members (I also spent a good chunk of that camping N3 into 0-W). This far into the thread, the continued response is nice to see.
I have a feeling the CCP Rouge is laying the foundation for some big changes that will be announced at fanfest. My fear at this point, is that with the lack of expectation management and feedback, if the announcement isn't absolutely brilliant it will cause more damage than good to the community.
I guess we'll wait and see; Unfortunately for Dust an increasing number of our fellow players will do neither.
The irony here is that they're sort of damned if they do, damned if they don't at this point. At least, if they wait until Fanfest to deliver any real information.
I mean, if they announce some big changes at fanfest without having the content actually available for the people there to try out, who's going to be gullible enough to actually believe them considering their previous track record? On the other hand, if they wait until fanfest to announce anything, and it's just basic nuts and bolts of some more low level basic implementation of features of accessibility type stuff, they'll get hammered for not being ambitious enough.
The only way they can have a real impact at fanfest is if they actually have a bunch of content sitting on the backburner waiting to be revealed there. If they show up and say "here's what we're going to be doing in the next 3 months," and it's some big major changes and upgrades AND they already have a playable version for the people there to try out, then they'll get player's attention. However, if it's just more "pie in the sky" about their "long term goals" and their "10 year plan," no one is going to take them seriously. |
John McLeish
Science For Death
3
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 22:15:00 -
[206] - Quote
So is that the consensus? Wait until Fanfest?
I'd still like to see a dev at least confirm that. |
Zohar Colichemarde
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
29
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 05:41:00 -
[207] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:I think we have to accept that this is a lobby shooter until they have a better platform (PS4) to work with.
Personally I believe the announcement should be a high level idea of what that might look like and entail. But ultimately they should provide various lobby shooter style game modes while we wait.
There is definitely a nugget of truth to this. While the PS4 would provide more space to implement better content and streamline a lot of things, it's by no means guaranteed.
I <3 Laser Rocks.
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Obodiah Garro
Tech Guard
RISE of LEGION
719
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 06:29:00 -
[208] - Quote
A Goon in with the CPM is like walking backwards whilst cutting your own throat.
Nemo me impune lacessit
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Samahiel
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
297
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 21:08:00 -
[209] - Quote
Obodiah Garro wrote:A Goon in with the CPM is like walking backwards whilst cutting your own throat.
You must be far more clever than I am; I've tried to parse this about three times already, and am still unsure in what possible context this post makes sense.
Edit: I think you think it's a bad thing? The real question is what brought this up, as there are no goon CPM candidates, and why would you hold such a prejudice in the face of all historical evidence and reason? |
lionshead nebula
The Exemplars
Top Men.
22
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 12:31:00 -
[210] - Quote
Samahiel wrote:Obodiah Garro wrote:A Goon in with the CPM is like walking backwards whilst cutting your own throat. You must be far more clever than I am; I've tried to parse this about three times already, and am still unsure in what possible context this post makes sense. Edit: I think you think it's a bad thing? The real question is what brought this up, as there are no goon CPM candidates, and why would you hold such a prejudice in the face of all historical evidence and reason?
I think he wants to sit at the cool kids table but is too insecure to ask for permission. On another note, it looks like we will be waiting until all Dev teams are satisfied with their contribution in 1.8 before we hear anything. |
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da GAND
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
507
|
Posted - 2014.03.17 00:42:00 -
[211] - Quote
bump just so CCP remembers that their EVE players are also not so happy with the game currently (1.8 better be worth it)
After Uprisings release the forums were a bad place, I'll never forget how CCP screwed up so badly.
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SgtDoughnut
DUST University
Ivy League
505
|
Posted - 2014.03.17 01:03:00 -
[212] - Quote
While everyone in eve, ps2 and even dust to a degree is all GRRR goons, you have to give them credit they know how to break any game, and tell devs exactly what is wrong with said game. +1 man. |
PR0FESSOR CHAOS
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
35
|
Posted - 2014.05.06 06:07:00 -
[213] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:Samahiel wrote:After my last post I took a break from this thread, and went back to focusing on making content for my line members (I also spent a good chunk of that camping N3 into 0-W). This far into the thread, the continued response is nice to see.
I have a feeling the CCP Rouge is laying the foundation for some big changes that will be announced at fanfest. My fear at this point, is that with the lack of expectation management and feedback, if the announcement isn't absolutely brilliant it will cause more damage than good to the community.
I guess we'll wait and see; Unfortunately for Dust an increasing number of our fellow players will do neither. The irony here is that they're sort of damned if they do, damned if they don't at this point. At least, if they wait until Fanfest to deliver any real information. I mean, if they announce some big changes at fanfest without having the content actually available for the people there to try out, who's going to be gullible enough to actually believe them considering their previous track record? On the other hand, if they wait until fanfest to announce anything, and it's just basic nuts and bolts of some more low level basic implementation of features of accessibility type stuff, they'll get hammered for not being ambitious enough. The only way they can have a real impact at fanfest is if they actually have a bunch of content sitting on the backburner waiting to be revealed there. If they show up and say "here's what we're going to be doing in the next 3 months," and it's some big major changes and upgrades AND they already have a playable version for the people there to try out, then they'll get player's attention. However, if it's just more "pie in the sky" about their "long term goals" and their "10 year plan," no one is going to take them seriously.
hmm
Good. Use your aggressive feelings, boy. Let the hate flow through you.
|
Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
1333
|
Posted - 2014.05.06 06:09:00 -
[214] - Quote
PR0FESSOR CHAOS wrote:Baal Roo wrote:Samahiel wrote:After my last post I took a break from this thread, and went back to focusing on making content for my line members (I also spent a good chunk of that camping N3 into 0-W). This far into the thread, the continued response is nice to see.
I have a feeling the CCP Rouge is laying the foundation for some big changes that will be announced at fanfest. My fear at this point, is that with the lack of expectation management and feedback, if the announcement isn't absolutely brilliant it will cause more damage than good to the community.
I guess we'll wait and see; Unfortunately for Dust an increasing number of our fellow players will do neither. The irony here is that they're sort of damned if they do, damned if they don't at this point. At least, if they wait until Fanfest to deliver any real information. I mean, if they announce some big changes at fanfest without having the content actually available for the people there to try out, who's going to be gullible enough to actually believe them considering their previous track record? On the other hand, if they wait until fanfest to announce anything, and it's just basic nuts and bolts of some more low level basic implementation of features of accessibility type stuff, they'll get hammered for not being ambitious enough. The only way they can have a real impact at fanfest is if they actually have a bunch of content sitting on the backburner waiting to be revealed there. If they show up and say "here's what we're going to be doing in the next 3 months," and it's some big major changes and upgrades AND they already have a playable version for the people there to try out, then they'll get player's attention. However, if it's just more "pie in the sky" about their "long term goals" and their "10 year plan," no one is going to take them seriously. hmm
You really should stop necroing threads.
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PR0FESSOR CHAOS
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
35
|
Posted - 2014.05.06 06:11:00 -
[215] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote:PR0FESSOR CHAOS wrote:Baal Roo wrote:Samahiel wrote:After my last post I took a break from this thread, and went back to focusing on making content for my line members (I also spent a good chunk of that camping N3 into 0-W). This far into the thread, the continued response is nice to see.
I have a feeling the CCP Rouge is laying the foundation for some big changes that will be announced at fanfest. My fear at this point, is that with the lack of expectation management and feedback, if the announcement isn't absolutely brilliant it will cause more damage than good to the community.
I guess we'll wait and see; Unfortunately for Dust an increasing number of our fellow players will do neither. The irony here is that they're sort of damned if they do, damned if they don't at this point. At least, if they wait until Fanfest to deliver any real information. I mean, if they announce some big changes at fanfest without having the content actually available for the people there to try out, who's going to be gullible enough to actually believe them considering their previous track record? On the other hand, if they wait until fanfest to announce anything, and it's just basic nuts and bolts of some more low level basic implementation of features of accessibility type stuff, they'll get hammered for not being ambitious enough. The only way they can have a real impact at fanfest is if they actually have a bunch of content sitting on the backburner waiting to be revealed there. If they show up and say "here's what we're going to be doing in the next 3 months," and it's some big major changes and upgrades AND they already have a playable version for the people there to try out, then they'll get player's attention. However, if it's just more "pie in the sky" about their "long term goals" and their "10 year plan," no one is going to take them seriously. hmm You really should stop necroing threads.
You sir are an sycophant this is the most relevant thread on the forum
Good. Use your aggressive feelings, boy. Let the hate flow through you.
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Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1450
|
Posted - 2014.05.06 06:39:00 -
[216] - Quote
Samahiel wrote:As an EVE player it occasionally becomes apparent that you are playing two games. One is couched in the nuts and bolts of the EVE client interface. ItGÇÖs a game of tactical skill, hard won personal experience, and laboriously researched knowledge. ItGÇÖs seen in spread sheets of investments, killboards, and opportunity cost calculations. ItGÇÖs a precisely balanced game of numbers; optimal ranges, transversal velocity, marginal returns, isk. The other game is much more ephemeral. Often times its not accessed through the EVE client. ItGÇÖs played on skype, on jabber, on comment sections and forums across the internet. The Metagame, is notorious; stories about it have touched the pages of newspapers well outside the sphere of the typical gaming press. ItGÇÖs a game of politics, of subterfuge and morale. ItGÇÖs a capricious, emotional, intensely human experience; and, to the right type of person, there is no other game as rewarding on the market. DUST 514 needs to become another facet of interaction with the New Eden metagame. A different, but no less legitimate, client through which people can shape the same economy, the same balance of political power, and the same dynamic player driven narratives of the Sandbox. Almost as importantly the roadmap and philosophical direction behind this design must be clearly and continuously communicated to the playerbase if goodwill is to be preserved for the extended amount of time this will surely take. Introductions are probably in order. I am the Chief of Operations for the corporation Goonfeet [FEET.] a founding director of the alliance Special Planetary Emergence Response Group [SPERG], and former COO for the defunct corp Immobile Infantry. All in all IGÇÖve been directly responsible for shepherding 500+ autists, try-hards, bads, griefers, scammers, and all around great guys whilst trying to create enough content and structure that none of them should ever have to die alone. Along with our allies and friends in Top Men. [CHRIO] we also represent the dust arm of the CFC an eve coalition of some note. With the upcoming CPM elections IGÇÖve been holding a number of conversations about the future direction of dust. Where we see it going, itGÇÖs growing pains, itGÇÖs successes. I believe a recent conversation with Kane Spero best reflects the heart of the matter: Quote:
[10:39:48] Samahiel : We're really worried on our side about Dust.
[10:40:57] Kane Spero: Our side being the Eve side?
[10:41:06] Samahiel : SPERG
[10:41:40] Samahiel : We're worried that a large portion of our remaining active players are motivated by the hope that all of this will one day mean something, and that if CCP doesn't communicate clear public plans at fan fest we'll drop below the critical mass of active players necessary to make playing this game bearable.
[10:42:14] Kane Spero: I hear that.
[...]
[10:42:44] Samahiel : The EVE side is pretty much convinced this game is done design wise, and will never be anything else.
[10:43:15] Kane Spero: Dust is far from being done in terms of its interaction with Eve.
[10:43:22] Samahiel : And that's the one's who aren't outright hostile and feel any integration would be dangerous to EVE.
[10:43:47] Samahiel : If I say that they'll say, "Prove It"
[10:43:52] Samahiel : and they wouldn't be wrong to ask.
[10:44:30] Kane Spero: Well, I unfortunately am not at liberty to "prove it"
[10:44:46] Kane Spero: One of the downsides to being a CPM
[...]
[10:45:47] Kane Spero: A clear and obtainable plan is something I've been professing to CCP that they need
[10:46:22] Kane Spero: Not pie-in-the-sky stuff designed to instill hope and not much more
[10:47:07] Samahiel : It's just galling that Para and I are sitting on top of what should be one of the largest most motivated blocks of players. People who bought merc packs, and aurum boosters, who wanted to believe in CCPs advertising. And all that has been squandered.
[10:48:11] Kane Spero: CCP realizes that they have ****** up I can say that much.
[10:48:58] Kane Spero: I do think that CCP Rogue is passionate and ambitious enough to take Dust into a good direction though
[GǪ]
[10:54:46] Kane Spero: I think one of the biggest issues is that a lot of the examinations have been what can Dust make for Eve so that Eve will care. It really needs to be what can Dust DO for Eve that would make Eve care.
[10:55:24] Samahiel : I think the biggest issue is dust doesn't make or do anything, and we've seen no plans that weren't markers on a whiteboard.
[10:56:21] Kane Spero: People keep thinking if PC made Eve resources that a lot of the issues would be solved, but what really needs to happen is to have Dusters themselves be a resource that Eve uses to accomplish a task.
[10:56:58] Kane Spero: A tool in the toolbox of Eve corporations if you will.
[10:56:59] Samahiel : which is fine, but low level design like this should have been theory crafter, nailed down, iterated on, published for comment, and implemented at launch.
[10:57:17] Kane Spero: Pretty much.
[10:57:18] Samahiel : and if they expect us to wait around for it, they need to make it clear they're moving in a direction.
[...]
[10:59:56] Samahiel : Anyway, If you could pass on our concerns I'd appreciate it.
[11:00:07] Kane Spero: Of course.
[11:03:59] Samahiel : once again, sorry to dump this on you.
[11:10:32] Kane Spero: No reason to apologize. This is one of the reasons I'm here: to hear the concerns of community members and convey them to CCP and incorporate those concerns into my own feedback and advice I give CCP
I am unfamiliar with EVEspeak, but as an outsider I find it hilarious that he just shouts SPERG outta nowhere lol
Edit: Sorry, skipped to the conversation, get it now
We are the 514, and we will not forget
RIP Dust
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
2483
|
Posted - 2014.05.06 06:42:00 -
[217] - Quote
Baal, SPERG is the acronym for Samahiel's alliance. The Special Planetary Emergency Response Group.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1450
|
Posted - 2014.05.06 06:46:00 -
[218] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Baal, SPERG is the acronym for Samahiel's alliance. The Special Planetary Emergency Response Group.
Yeah, I skipped to the conversation first and it's seeming randomness caused me to lol. I'm in the process of reading the rest now.
We are the 514, and we will not forget
RIP Dust
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Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1450
|
Posted - 2014.05.06 06:57:00 -
[219] - Quote
PR0FESSOR CHAOS wrote:Ulysses Knapse wrote:PR0FESSOR CHAOS wrote:Baal Roo wrote:Samahiel wrote:After my last post I took a break from this thread, and went back to focusing on making content for my line members (I also spent a good chunk of that camping N3 into 0-W). This far into the thread, the continued response is nice to see.
I have a feeling the CCP Rouge is laying the foundation for some big changes that will be announced at fanfest. My fear at this point, is that with the lack of expectation management and feedback, if the announcement isn't absolutely brilliant it will cause more damage than good to the community.
I guess we'll wait and see; Unfortunately for Dust an increasing number of our fellow players will do neither. The irony here is that they're sort of damned if they do, damned if they don't at this point. At least, if they wait until Fanfest to deliver any real information. I mean, if they announce some big changes at fanfest without having the content actually available for the people there to try out, who's going to be gullible enough to actually believe them considering their previous track record? On the other hand, if they wait until fanfest to announce anything, and it's just basic nuts and bolts of some more low level basic implementation of features of accessibility type stuff, they'll get hammered for not being ambitious enough. The only way they can have a real impact at fanfest is if they actually have a bunch of content sitting on the backburner waiting to be revealed there. If they show up and say "here's what we're going to be doing in the next 3 months," and it's some big major changes and upgrades AND they already have a playable version for the people there to try out, then they'll get player's attention. However, if it's just more "pie in the sky" about their "long term goals" and their "10 year plan," no one is going to take them seriously. hmm You really should stop necroing threads. You sir are an sycophant this is the most relevant thread on the forum
This would all be fantastic if Dust were to continue, but as it is... Dust is finished. Since Dust's days are numbered I have to disagree.
However, this post is very relevant as it pertains to Legion. I wish you only the best of luck with that to those of you moving to PC.
Salute. o7
We are the 514, and we will not forget
RIP Dust
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