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Zeylon Rho wrote:

I'm reading it right that Swarms aren't considered "explosive" for the purpose of damage bonuses?

My first thought on reading things is that they made the Minny Commando a super-suit. If present trends are accurate to heavy suits, the Minny commando would:

Have the most slots.
Be the fastest.
Have a bonus applying to both AV (swarms/explosive) and a rifle with the best resist profile (Combat)

The first two would alleviate the largest issues with the Amarr Commando (3 slots at proto... slow as crap). The last would make them the most flexible.

If swarms aren't explosive though, I guess that's not "quite" accurate.

On balance, the theoretical most-optimum (two bonused weapons) commando weapon skills are sort of an odd grab-bag otherwise (the PC isn't a blaster either?):

Amarr: Laser Rifle & Scrambler (pretty bad overlap)
Caldari: Sniper & Rail (probably the most sensible... great at range and a solid rifle to go with it)
Gallente: AR & ...shotgun? (I guess this is ok.. the AR is already really good close up though.. so...?)
Minmatar: CR & MD (Not horrible... MD are a pretty acquired taste though)

Some weapons will benefit more from the damage bonus too I'd think. Though maybe I'm overstating this. The commando has crap for slots, the damage bonus might be completely "negated" in comparison with an assault suit that can stack damage mods. This might be where slot allotment matters most... the suits likely to get the most high slots (Caldari/Minmatar) could get more damage bonuses without stacking penalties (Suit + Proficiency + 2-3 damage mods....).

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 1073	Posted - 2014.01.07 13:10:00 - [91] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: They are gonna either end up changing scanners or that gallante bonus, thats ridiculous as if scanners weren't bad enough already. Amarr will become an uplink spammer, Caldari will become a hive spammer and no-one will get any use out of that minie bonus. However I'm mors interested as to the fact the items were on sale in an eve market. P2P market almost ready prehaps? gallente will probably be able to run a basic scanner instead of an advanced scanner to save power grid.
Aeon Amadi Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4396	Posted - 2014.01.07 13:12:00 - [92] - Quote low genius wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: They are gonna either end up changing scanners or that gallante bonus, thats ridiculous as if scanners weren't bad enough already. Amarr will become an uplink spammer, Caldari will become a hive spammer and no-one will get any use out of that minie bonus. However I'm mors interested as to the fact the items were on sale in an eve market. P2P market almost ready prehaps? gallente will probably be able to run a basic scanner instead of an advanced scanner to save power grid. The hilarity of it is that they're benefiting from the PG/CPU bonus that all Logis now get xD It's going to be even more hilarious with the faction scanners. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Protected Void Endless Hatred 218	Posted - 2014.01.07 13:14:00 - [93] - Quote low genius wrote: gallente will probably be able to run a basic scanner instead of an advanced scanner to save power grid. In deed. At proto suit level, they'll actually get a better scan precision with a basic scanner than they have now with an advanced. Which means that they'll have better scanners than the current advanced at almost no cost, considering the general equipment fitting cost reduction bonus of logi suits.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 2381	Posted - 2014.01.07 13:16:00 - [94] - Quote The MagSec appeared on Sisi before 1.7. As a Min Logi with hacking 5 I still think the hacking bonus should go to the scouts. Tactically it makes more sense and makes them more useful. Of course I do have Min Scout 5 too so it wouldn't hurt me. Min Logistics are already heavy scouts and that should change. Min Logi have been the repair guys from the beginning. Lore wise they were created from starship mechanic suits. They should do shield transfer to follow military doctrine but that's not a thing right now. But, using low strength buffers actively and quickly repaired is a thing for the Minmatar so I have no complaints. I wonder if pilot suits are coming. // Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
T'orq DUST University Ivy League 90	Posted - 2014.01.07 13:17:00 - [95] - Quote Not sure I like the Commando bonus', because the commandos can use all light weapons. Why give them bonus' to just one type? I think all the commando suits need their bonus to be for all weapons. Thanjac- Proud Member of Commando 6 Commando Lives
Aeon Amadi Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4396	Posted - 2014.01.07 13:18:00 - [96] - Quote Protected Void wrote: low genius wrote: gallente will probably be able to run a basic scanner instead of an advanced scanner to save power grid. Indeed. At proto suit level, they'll actually get a better scan precision with a basic scanner than they have now with an advanced. Which means that they'll have better scanners than the current advanced at almost no cost, considering the general equipment fitting cost reduction bonus of logi suits. Edit: Bah, Aeon beat me to it. Bear in mind that a Prototype Active Scanner equipped on a Gallente Logi will only go as low as 21db. A Scout can still, with enough effort and skill, beat this as there are some fits designed to beat the Focused Active Scanner which has a precision of 16db (albeit this one will be impossible to avoid). We aren't able to see CPU/PG changes, however, so bear in mind that they could have increased these resource costs to make the Gallente Logi more of a specialized role in this field. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 1255	Posted - 2014.01.07 13:18:00 - [97] - Quote Sweet find, thanks for posting. "We spent so much time huddling inside buildings with tanks circling outside like a swarm of sharks around bait"
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3111	Posted - 2014.01.07 13:25:00 - [98] - Quote I'm reading it right that Swarms aren't considered "explosive" for the purpose of damage bonuses? My first thought on reading things is that they made the Minny Commando a super-suit. If present trends are accurate to heavy suits, the Minny commando would: Have the most slots. Be the fastest. Have a bonus applying to both AV (swarms/explosive) and a rifle with the best resist profile (Combat) The first two would alleviate the largest issues with the Amarr Commando (3 slots at proto... slow as crap). The last would make them the most flexible. If swarms aren't explosive though, I guess that's not "quite" accurate. On balance, the theoretical most-optimum (two bonused weapons) commando weapon skills are sort of an odd grab-bag otherwise (the PC isn't a blaster either?): Amarr: Laser Rifle & Scrambler (pretty bad overlap) Caldari: Sniper & Rail (probably the most sensible... great at range and a solid rifle to go with it) Gallente: AR & ...shotgun? (I guess this is ok.. the AR is already really good close up though.. so...?) Minmatar: CR & MD (Not horrible... MD are a pretty acquired taste though) Some weapons will benefit more from the damage bonus too I'd think. Though maybe I'm overstating this. The commando has crap for slots, the damage bonus might be completely "negated" in comparison with an assault suit that can stack damage mods. This might be where slot allotment matters most... the suits likely to get the most high slots (Caldari/Minmatar) could get more damage bonuses without stacking penalties (Suit + Proficiency + 2-3 damage mods....). Join my cult.
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 645	Posted - 2014.01.07 13:28:00 - [99] - Quote Repost from another thread: CCP will kill stealth tanking for anyone except scouts with these changes. Proto Gallente Logis will now have 21dB precision using the previous 28dB scanners, and their scans will be 50% longer. Medium frames will need FIVE dampeners to avoid proto scans from a Gal Logi. Scouts will need two complex dampeners. If you thought scanning was bad in 1.7, wait till these changes go into effect. CCP are a bunch of idiots. And LOL at the people who think that Gal Logis will downgrade their scanners to basic after these changes. That's too funny.
Tech De Ra Electronic Sports League 258	Posted - 2014.01.07 13:30:00 - [100] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: I'm reading it right that Swarms aren't considered "explosive" for the purpose of damage bonuses? My first thought on reading things is that they made the Minny Commando a super-suit. If present trends are accurate to heavy suits, the Minny commando would: Have the most slots. Be the fastest. Have a bonus applying to both AV (swarms/explosive) and a rifle with the best resist profile (Combat) The first two would alleviate the largest issues with the Amarr Commando (3 slots at proto... slow as crap). The last would make them the most flexible. If swarms aren't explosive though, I guess that's not "quite" accurate. On balance, the theoretical most-optimum (two bonused weapons) commando weapon skills are sort of an odd grab-bag otherwise (the PC isn't a blaster either?): Amarr: Laser Rifle & Scrambler (pretty bad overlap) Caldari: Sniper & Rail (probably the most sensible... great at range and a solid rifle to go with it) Gallente: AR & ...shotgun? (I guess this is ok.. the AR is already really good close up though.. so...?) Minmatar: CR & MD (Not horrible... MD are a pretty acquired taste though) Some weapons will benefit more from the damage bonus too I'd think. Though maybe I'm overstating this. The commando has crap for slots, the damage bonus might be completely "negated" in comparison with an assault suit that can stack damage mods. This might be where slot allotment matters most... the suits likely to get the most high slots (Caldari/Minmatar) could get more damage bonuses without stacking penalties (Suit + Proficiency + 2-3 damage mods....). As far as the game data is currently, the plasma cannon and swarms dont seem to be tagged as explosive as they all have separate tags for each weapon The damage bonus at level 5 is pretty insane, bare in mind that is a free complex damage mod THAT DOESNT STACK with other damage mods you have equipped, in effect for the ak.0 you will have +31.5% damage with 2 damage mods, as opposed to an assault having +26% damage from 3 damage mods (assault with 4 damage mods gets around +29.9%, so even that is lower than the commando with 2 damage mods) Tech De Ra for CPM1


ChribbaX Otherworld Enterprises Dust Control Otherworld Empire Productions 892	Posted - 2014.01.07 13:31:00 - [101] - Quote Aww so I just took MinLogi to 5... well it was fun while the 3 sec hack last DUSTBoard - Mercenary sheets DUSTSearch - DUST Forum mirror

Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 1531	Posted - 2014.01.07 13:32:00 - [102] - Quote Oooh and there goes my love for the Amarr logi & now I'm just super worried about the scouts with that galogi bonus running around. "The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
LT SHANKS Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 1346	Posted - 2014.01.07 13:34:00 - [103] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: No Scouts? Just be a little more patient. Scouts will have their day, and if somehow the MinLogi's hacking bonus gets transferred to one of the Scout suits, you will find one new player added to the Scout Registry.
Aeon Amadi Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4401	Posted - 2014.01.07 13:35:00 - [104] - Quote LT SHANKS wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: No Scouts? Just be a little more patient. Scouts will have their day, and if somehow the MinLogi's hacking bonus gets transferred to one of the Scout suits, you will find one new player added to the Scout Registry. When Scouts are buffed and racial parity for them is provided (I'd imagine Pilot suits will be delivered in unison) they will be the most 'up-to-date' of all the balance passes, leaving only the Assaults. Seems like I'm going to have to shelf my Gallente Assault for a little while xD Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 647	Posted - 2014.01.07 13:38:00 - [105] - Quote Even if these changes are implemented, let's also not forget that CCP is trying to "figure out" how to deal with equipment spam. How they do that may be a direct nerf to the bonuses for Amarr and Caldari logis, whereas Minmatar and Gallente (the most OP suit right now) will be unaffected.
Yoma Carrim Situation Normal all fraked up 240	Posted - 2014.01.07 13:41:00 - [106] - Quote Spies caldari logi bonus YEEEEESSSSSSSS!!!!!!!! No longer shall I have to worry about the last 20% of health when I rez someone with a proto injector. Heavies may not be rezed and not fear having to wait for me to fill their armor bar. Best of all ammunition and health shall spill forth from my Nanohive(R) endlessly and in greater numbers than ever before. Spies Gallente Logi bonus weeeeellllllll this will be painful Spies Mini logi bonus .........cover to cover logi bro? DEH HECK? Spies Ammar logi bonus Shudders at the thought of endless waves of amarr assaults and heavies poring forth from two well placed uplinks all fit with shield shredding Laser weapons Looks over heavy bonuses +1 When you turn a corner and find the entire enemy team.Oh Heck Logi, Tanker, Heavy
Protected Void Endless Hatred 219	Posted - 2014.01.07 13:45:00 - [107] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: [quote=Protected Void] Bear in mind that a Prototype Active Scanner equipped on a Gallente Logi will only go as low as 21db. A Scout can still, with enough effort and skill, beat this as there are some fits designed to beat the Focused Active Scanner which has a precision of 16db (albeit this one will be impossible to avoid). We aren't able to see CPU/PG changes, however, so bear in mind that they could have increased these resource costs to make the Gallente Logi more of a specialized role in this field. Certainly - it's not impossible for a scout to avoid the proto scanner, although I'd argue it would entail an unfairly high cost to do so. Even with the high SP cost a scout suit and dampening maxed out, you need to use 2 of a proto scout's 5 slots to evade one piece of equipment which is a lot less SP intensive and doesn't inhibit the rest of the logi's fit to a comparable extent at all. That's bad enough for a Gallente scout, but absolute murder for the low slot-lacking Minmatar scout.
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1483	Posted - 2014.01.07 13:47:00 - [108] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: They are gonna either end up changing scanners or that gallante bonus, thats ridiculous as if scanners weren't bad enough already. Amarr will become an uplink spammer, Caldari will become a hive spammer and no-one will get any use out of that minie bonus. However I'm mors interested as to the fact the items were on sale in an eve market. P2P market almost ready prehaps? Infantry gear has always been on the Eve market with associated prices but aren't available for purchase by Eve players. They're stocked in the stations that Dusters are (locked) in so that there's a never ending supply by the NPC providers. Oh :( so they are nerfing my suits and not even giving a P2P to appease me. I don't wanna use my minnie as a damn medic, I wanna be a combat engineer and shizzle. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 5373	Posted - 2014.01.07 13:47:00 - [109] - Quote Minmatar bonus makes PERFECT sense. A good logi doesn't just stay behind a single target and rep him forever, a good logi moves around the battlefield keeping it's team mates up with juicy juicy repairing. A mobile logi has it's role, just like a slow logi. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1458	Posted - 2014.01.07 13:49:00 - [110] - Quote Some of those bonuses make sense and would be very welcome while others are just hilarious. Unless there will be changes (I doubt that) to equipment, the logi bonuses especially will be seriously broken. One thing is giving suits bonuses that don't fit the suits (rep tool bonus for minnie logi for example), another is making the equipment insanely OP with these bonuses. As others have mentioned those gal logi scan bonuses will make the scanner insane. The amarr logi uplink bonuses will give you pretty much instant spawn proto uplinks, as if the spawn times weren't low enough already (seriously uplinks need an increased spawntime). CCP really needs to think this one through properly. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers!

Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 2386	Posted - 2014.01.07 13:50:00 - [111] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: CCP are a bunch of idiots. You see one small part of potentially sweeping changes and have to get nasty about it. With all the changes to equipment bonuses did it ever cross your mind that they might be changing equipment at the same time? // Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 2386	Posted - 2014.01.07 13:52:00 - [112] - Quote Argh. The Mac build machines for EVE failed to build over the weekend and they still haven't posted the Mac patch. No crystal ball for me. // Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 649	Posted - 2014.01.07 13:53:00 - [113] - Quote Minmatar bonus is actually pretty nice - you'll get 88 HP/s on the Lai Dai from 48m away, on two targets. You can easily heal front liners without exposing yourself to significant danger. The WP earnings from that will be huge. Gal Logi bonus takes the cake though. It has the potential to completely ruin stealth tanking for everyone except proto scouts with proto dampeners.
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4402	Posted - 2014.01.07 13:58:00 - [114] - Quote Just in case any of you weren't thinking about this: Consider stacking Triage hives to make suits within them nearly unkillable. Now consider doing so with a PRO Caldari Logistics suit. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1500	Posted - 2014.01.07 13:58:00 - [115] - Quote Zaria Min Deir wrote: Minmatar Commando? Will it be any less **** than the Amarr Commando? remains to be seen... I don't care. But Caldari Commando will definitely rock. Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!
Aeon Amadi Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4406	Posted - 2014.01.07 14:00:00 - [116] - Quote Protected Void wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: [quote=Protected Void] Bear in mind that a Prototype Active Scanner equipped on a Gallente Logi will only go as low as 21db. A Scout can still, with enough effort and skill, beat this as there are some fits designed to beat the Focused Active Scanner which has a precision of 16db (albeit this one will be impossible to avoid). We aren't able to see CPU/PG changes, however, so bear in mind that they could have increased these resource costs to make the Gallente Logi more of a specialized role in this field. Certainly - it's not impossible for a scout to avoid the proto scanner, although I'd argue it would entail an unfairly high cost to do so. Even with the high SP cost a scout suit and dampening maxed out, you need to use 2 of a proto scout's 5 slots to evade one piece of equipment which is a lot less SP intensive and doesn't inhibit the rest of the logi's fit to a comparable extent at all. That's bad enough for a Gallente scout, but absolute murder for the low slot-lacking Minmatar scout. Understand that Scout re-balancing isn't taking place yet and I'd imagine they're wanting to see how these changes iron out before they touch them. Just as well, they're probably wanting to roll out racial parity/pilot suits for them as well. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1500	Posted - 2014.01.07 14:00:00 - [117] - Quote ChribbaX wrote: Aww so I just took MinLogi to 5... well it was fun while the 3 sec hack last Didn't even notice. But you're right. Well. Time to get Systems Hacking to 5. Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!
Repe Susi Rautaleijona Top Men. 877	Posted - 2014.01.07 14:01:00 - [118] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: Minmatar bonus is actually pretty nice - you'll get 88 HP/s on the Lai Dai from 48m away, on two targets. You can easily heal front liners without exposing yourself to significant danger. The WP earnings from that will be huge. Gal Logi bonus takes the cake though. It has the potential to completely ruin stealth tanking for everyone except proto scouts with proto dampeners. (As long as equipment stats aren't changed.) That's quite a range and HP/s. I... think I like it. After the update the Core Focused Tool could become godly also. Smeehf.
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 650	Posted - 2014.01.07 14:03:00 - [119] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: Sana Rayya wrote: CCP are a bunch of idiots. You see one small part of potentially sweeping changes and have to get nasty about it. With all the changes to equipment bonuses did it ever cross your mind that they might be changing equipment at the same time? I really hope they do, because as it stands, things look very grim for scouts and stealth tankers.
ReGnYuM Imperfects 1734	Posted - 2014.01.07 14:04:00 - [120] - Quote Seriously, heavys do not need another Buff. I don't even *** with a heavy in 1v1 anymore* ^ And I am an exception to most rules Official Imperfect Title: Supreme Leader of the Endless Sunset I Slay, for thy Empress



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