DUST Search - Announcement:CCP Statement with Regards to the CPM

All Channels

Announcement and Events

Announcement:CCP Statement with Regards to the CPM

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)

CCP Dolan C C P C C P Alliance 69	Posted - 2013.10.29 00:33:00 - [1] - Quote Just over 6 months ago, CCP formed the first iteration of the Council of Planetary Management (CPM) for DUST 514. The CPM was a selected, diverse group of high level, knowledgeable players aimed to represent DUST 514 players to the development team. You can read more about their original purpose here, but IGÇÖd like to take some time to talk about their growth, current and past integration into the DUST development process, and opportunities to improve their effectiveness for both players and CCP. The CPM was inspired by EVE OnlineGÇÖs Council of Stellar Management (CSM), a democratically elected player counsel that acts as a representative body for the player-base. The CSM serves a year-long term and, along with regular digital meetings with EVE development teams, meets directly with CCP development teams several times at intensive, in-person summits. You can read more about the CSM here. Among the primary functions of the CSM, now in its 8th seated counsel, has been to act as a GÇ£focus groupGÇ¥ for the EVE development teams by getting early access to information and providing feedback on upcoming features in order to help shape the ongoing development of the game. The CPM was formed in the similar hope that they would provide a representative voice for players and be equally as helpful in the development of DUST 514. However, changes in key personnel within the DUST 514 development team has made it difficult to continuously engage the CPM in open dialogue regarding the development of DUST 514, and this lack of dialogue sometimes resulted in dropped balls, or topics being lost in the accelerated pace of development. However, we think that by understanding the difficulties and mistakes of the past, we can turn the CPM into the effective council that both CCP and the CPM have always hoped it would be. From the beginning, CCP Xhagen and I, CCP Dolan, were the primary points of contact for all CSM and CPM matters. However, with CCP Xhagen transitioning into his role as a producer for EVE Online, I have realized that I need to enlist additional help so that we can turn the CPM into the success it deserves to be. The recent arrival and support of CCP Rouge (Executive Producer) has been immensely helpful in involving the CPM deeply in to the development process in our Shanghai office. The CPM has already held several meetings with him over the last couple of weeks and will continue to do so in the coming future. Additionally, CCP SaberWing (DUST 514 Community Manager) will be working with the CPM to organize and oversee the CPMGÇÖs direct connection with all of the relevant DUST 514 Development teams. With this new team in place, we anticipate a more active and fluid level of communication between CCP and the CPM. Similarly, the monthly release schedule necessitated by DUST 514GÇÖs rapid development has provided its own set of unique challenges and opportunities. It has required a reassessment of our communication pathways, as we have found that the structure derived from our relationship with the CSM simply isnGÇÖt applicable. To address this issue, CCP will now focus on talking to the CPM when setting goals and designs for features far in advance of them actually being worked on. This will allow their feedback to be concentrated on the finer details once development has begun. While there have been difficulties over the past 6 months, the CPM has demonstrated a continued commitment to working with CCP, and I must commend them for their dedicated time and effort. Their institution is invaluable in a game as new and rapidly growing as DUST 514, especially given the single shared universe it inhabits with EVE Online. CCP is fully committed to strengthening their relationship with the CPM and growing DUST 514 through the help of their collective expertise. --CCP Dolan, on behalf of the DUST development team

Spademan The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 352	Posted - 2013.10.29 00:38:00 - [2] - Quote Any chance of giving the CPM a bit more leaniency on the NDAs? I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special.
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 168	Posted - 2013.10.29 00:43:00 - [3] - Quote I would like to know at what point the community will be able to elect new CPM members?
Mobius Wyvern Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 3768	Posted - 2013.10.29 00:44:00 - [4] - Quote Spademan wrote: Any chance of giving the CPM a bit more leaniency on the NDAs? I know a few CPM members who'd appreciate that restriction being relaxed.
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 168	Posted - 2013.10.29 00:47:00 - [5] - Quote When will we be able to hold elections for fresh CPM counsel members?
Galthur CrimeWave Syndicate 152	Posted - 2013.10.29 00:48:00 - [6] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: I would like to know at what point the community will be able to elect new CPM members? I would prefer knowing if we can re-elect Iron Wolf Saber
SILENTSAM 69 SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION 579	Posted - 2013.10.29 01:02:00 - [7] - Quote Hopefully we will get the elected CPM soon. Not saying anything against the current CPM, just that it will be nice to see them elected by DUST players.
Sirpidey Adtur Aloren Foundations 84	Posted - 2013.10.29 01:06:00 - [8] - Quote Though this CPM was appointed, rather than elected, it fared incredibly well, despite the poor state of the game. Although at first, the CPM didn't seem to get much done, they are all active members of the community, and have helped the game a great deal. Although they sometimes have their mouths sewn shut with contracts, they help inform us as much as possible. In fact, this CPM has actually made me re-think some things, and could perhaps be used to improve the CSM. As I said earlier, this CPM was appointed, not elected. This turned out... not as bad as I thought it would be. The CSM is filled with alliances basically buying votes, favoritism, and politics. There was surprisingly little of that here. This is a bit of a radical idea, but perhaps the next CSM and CPM should be HALF elected, and HALF appointed by CCP. Enough that the big alliances can have their voice, yet also have some members of the council not have had to resort to votemongering and favoritism. Often those who will seek power the most, are those least fit to lead.
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 1606	Posted - 2013.10.29 01:12:00 - [9] - Quote CCP Dolan wrote: CCP will now focus on talking to the CPM when setting goals and designs for features far in advance of them actually being worked on. This will allow their feedback to be concentrated on the finer details once development has begun. +1 If you guys can manage to pull this off... it'll be awesome. Being able to be a part of molding ideas that haven't already been set in stone is something I look forward to. > "I will show you fear in a handful of dust." T.S. Eliot, The Wasteland
Banning Hammer Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2053	Posted - 2013.10.29 01:22:00 - [10] - Quote SILENTSAM 69 wrote: Hopefully we will get the elected CPM soon. Not saying anything against the current CPM, just that it will be nice to see them elected by DUST players. This^ I will rather have a CPM that have been elected by the active Dust 514 Community, also have more CPM members with a deeper understanding of FPS games. Also have the EvE CPM and the Dust 514 CPM conduct meetings between them to discuss possible future Links, but also keeping them in their respective games, and far away from each other. a¦æ¦¬¦P¦¬a¦æGûêGûêGûêGûôGûÆGûæGûæß+¦-+-++»-+-í -ª+¦-+-++¦-ÅGûæGûæGûÆGûôGûêGûêGûêa¦æ¦¬¦P¦¬ `-ô-â-Åa+ó-+ a+¼+¦-Å-Å+¦-â-Å Gäô+¦v+¦Gäô 2`

Soraya Xel New Eden's Most Wanted Top Men. 711	Posted - 2013.10.29 01:28:00 - [11] - Quote The answer we were looking for was when we could elect new CPM. Not yet another promise to involve the CPM more, as with the many promises before. Top Men. - The DUST Arm of the CFC www.dust-gents.com Recruiting corporations and players now!
Kain Spero MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 2185	Posted - 2013.10.29 01:42:00 - [12] - Quote It's important to have CCP acknowledge that mistakes were made and express their desire to further involve the CPM and the Dust community. Moving forward though it will be CCP's actions that earn the trust of the players. I look forward to the goals of finalizing the operational charter and the drafting of the white papers to establish the needed groundwork to elect CPM1. I hope these can be accomplished with due haste, but careful and thoughtful consideration. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Alldin Kan MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 734	Posted - 2013.10.29 02:32:00 - [13] - Quote CCP already lost the chance of having a good CPM the moment when veteran players such as Slap stopped playing this game. The only use I see from the current CPM is providing ideas to enhance current game modes and pass concerns from players to CCP (usually to no avail). INFINITE COOKIES LOL Commando LOL Plasma Cannon
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1154	Posted - 2013.10.29 03:04:00 - [14] - Quote These are good words from CCP Dolan/CCP DUST, and much appreciated. It is encouraging to see the new EP recognizing the potential in the relationship and engaging CPM0. It is also encouraging to hear that more resources, namely CCP SaberWing, are being assigned to the CPM project. The resources are well-spent, imo, and likely to deliver a healthy ROI. As far as mistakes, missteps, and suchlike are concerned, that's the price of doing business on the frontier. CCP together with the CSM and CPM, are effectively writing the systems manual for including Democratic player representation in the Scrum process. Not a small achievement, imo. In the end, the mistakes don't matter, the results do. And for this reason i strongly support what CPM Kain Spero has already posted in this thread. The same sentiment has been expressed by other members of the council, and this is meet and just based on what has gone before. Am i encouraged? Yes. Optimistic? Yes. But also cautious and justifiably so, and definitely paying attention to what CCP does next. Crazy-talk Postscipt It is a testament to all of us: CCP DUST, CPM, and the players(especially the forum warriors) that this process continues to move ahead. If one accepts that what we're actually engaged in here is building a virtual universe, and that this has never been done before, it becomes fairly clear that something like the CCP/CSPMs/Players symbiote will be required to nurture New Eden to adulthood. With complex issues such as these, and with incomplete information, it is virtually always true that the smartest person in the room is everybody. The trick is that the chips have to come off the shoulders and real conversation needs to take place. It looks to me like we are starting to make that happen.
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 3507	Posted - 2013.10.29 04:15:00 - [15] - Quote As great as the CPM is (they really have come a long way since Uprising was first released and all) it's important that CCP doesn't lose focus on the community and, more importantly, engaging that community. The voice of six people is not nearly as important as expressing goals and roadmap(s) with the community as a whole and receiving feedback as well. It's important to understand that for the community it can often times feel a little quiet and with that silence a lot of the primary concerns look like they aren't being addressed. Frustration racks up and tensions get high - hell, as a diplomat I'm obligated a sense of clarity but just last night I blew my top over the fact that things weren't prioritized the way I'd like them to be (in particular, broken PC mechanics haven't been touched since May but vehicles/AV have been touched on time and time again). Ideally I'd love for the content to be tweaked once or twice, rather than repeatedly. I'd love for the content that is truly broken (Logistics dropsuits being legitimately better at everything) rather than the things that have shifted back and forth on the great teeter totter o'balance. I know it's difficult but the lack of communication isn't helping anything. 1.6 should be just around the corner but we've heard nothing about it other than it's going to entail a few minor bug fixes and we've been confirmed a point release of 1.8 at the very least - so we've still a long way to go but no clue as to what to look forward to. Suffice to say, we know more about what's coming in 1.7 than we do what's in 1.6 - I don't think that's optimal and should definitely be worked on. But, here's to hoping the CPM can make some leeway with that. ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
THEAMAZING POTHEAD Nyain San Proficiency V. 478	Posted - 2013.10.29 04:34:00 - [16] - Quote "high level knowledgeable players"? PLEASE. kain speros the only decent player in CPM, as well as being the only active player, probably the only one to play PC battles and probably the only one with a proto suit, oddly enough hes the only one with a decent head around his shoulders and a REAL understanding of this game as well as its players. But the rest of the CPM is garbage in different ways like inactivativity, bias, outright aholes, or just plain dumb. I could give multiple examples of each of these.
howard sanchez DUST University Ivy League 803	Posted - 2013.10.29 04:40:00 - [17] - Quote CCP Dolan & CCP Dev team, Amazing, honest, responsible memo! Thank you. Let this symphony begin a new movement. Different from the rest of the industry. Looking forward to working on this project with you all. Respectfully, H Sanchez
fawkuima juggalo Eternal Beings 89	Posted - 2013.10.29 04:40:00 - [18] - Quote Cant wait for more information concerning this.

ChribbaX Otherworld Enterprises Dust Control Otherworld Empire Productions 821	Posted - 2013.10.29 04:43:00 - [19] - Quote Good to see it being tried to evolve further. CPM0 was selected to select CPM1 - or have input as I recall it, is this the case or will we see a change of CPM members soon? /c

howard sanchez DUST University Ivy League 803	Posted - 2013.10.29 04:52:00 - [20] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: These are good words from CCP Dolan/CCP DUST, and much appreciated. It is encouraging to see the new EP recognizing the potential in the relationship and engaging CPM0. It is also encouraging to hear that more resources, namely CCP SaberWing, are being assigned to the CPM project. The resources are well-spent, imo, and likely to deliver a healthy ROI. As far as mistakes, missteps, and suchlike are concerned, that's the price of doing business on the frontier. CCP, together with the CSM and CPM, are effectively writing the systems manual for including Democratic player representation in the Scrum process. Not a small achievement, imo. In the end, the mistakes don't matter, the results do. And for this reason i strongly support what CPM Kain Spero has already posted in this thread. The same sentiment has been expressed by other members of the council, and this is meet and just based on what has gone before. Am i encouraged? Yes. Optimistic? Yes. But also cautious and justifiably so, and definitely paying attention to what CCP does next. Crazy-talk Postscipt It is a testament to all of us: CCP DUST, CPM, and the players(especially the forum warriors) that this process continues to move ahead. If one accepts that what we're actually engaged in here is building a virtual universe, and that this has never been done before, it becomes fairly clear that something like the CCP/CSPMs/Players symbiote will be required to nurture New Eden to adulthood. With complex issues such as these, and with incomplete information, it is virtually always true that the smartest person in the room is everybody. The trick is that the chips have to come off the shoulders and real conversation needs to take place. It looks to me like we are starting to make that happen. QFT +1

Heinz Doofenshertz BetaMax. 554	Posted - 2013.10.29 05:41:00 - [21] - Quote I thank CCP Dolan for this post. However there is more information, we the community, would like to know. I understand that the Dust dev team has gone thru some major reorganizations recently, however we are missing some things that the CSM do put out, like the meeting minutes, a lack of a feeling of connection with the CPM, not from me I know where I can find them if I have an issue, but for most other people. Also an overall lack of feeling connectioned with the dev team, again not something from me, I know where to find them :) . I know Mintchip, Logibro, Foxfour, and others try to post a bit, but we do not see alot of posts from you Dolan, or people like Remanent, Wolfman (though he does post good threadnaughts), any of the sound guys, the art teams. I know they work very hard, but it's an apearence. I know the CPM is working on how to build a election system in an enviroment where 1 person could make a massive number of accounts since both psn and dust accounts are free to create. limiting it by stats, or by play time, or to ps+ users would make a portion of the community feel as if they are not important to the devs and this is not wanted. To Close, I'd just say, More please. more communication and more information are generally never bad. Wolfman and Foxfour posting their threads has given us data to provide feedback on earlier than we have ever gotten. and will allow us to prove either how bad the community understands math, or for us to prove we can provide valuable feedback. Thank you. Dust514 Stats, Have you updated today? I do maths, and sit in a corner.
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3372	Posted - 2013.10.29 07:21:00 - [22] - Quote THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: "high level knowledgeable players"? PLEASE. kain speros the only decent player in CPM, as well as being the only active player, probably the only one to play PC battles and probably the only one with a proto suit, oddly enough hes the only one with a decent head around his shoulders and a REAL understanding of this game as well as its players. But the rest of the CPM is garbage in different ways like inactivity, bias, outright aholes, or just plain dumb. I could give multiple examples of each of these. I've had a lot of good 'scussion with Hans. Amarr faithful, join PIE Inc, the oldest EVE/Dust Amarr loyal corporation! Amarr Victor!
crazy space 1 Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 1942	Posted - 2013.10.29 07:22:00 - [23] - Quote CCP Dolan wrote: Just over 6 months ago, CCP formed the first iteration of the Council of Planetary Management (CPM) for DUST 514. The CPM was a selected, diverse group of high level, knowledgeable players aimed to represent DUST 514 players to the development team. You can read more about their original purpose here, but IGÇÖd like to take some time to talk about their growth, current and past integration into the DUST development process, and opportunities to improve their effectiveness for both players and CCP. The CPM was inspired by EVE OnlineGÇÖs Council of Stellar Management (CSM), a democratically elected player counsel that acts as a representative body for the player-base. The CSM serves a year-long term and, along with regular digital meetings with EVE development teams, meets directly with CCP development teams several times at intensive, in-person summits. You can read more about the CSM here. Among the primary functions of the CSM, now in its 8th seated counsel, has been to act as a GÇ£focus groupGÇ¥ for the EVE development teams by getting early access to information and providing feedback on upcoming features in order to help shape the ongoing development of the game. The CPM was formed in the similar hope that they would provide a representative voice for players and be equally as helpful in the development of DUST 514. However, changes in key personnel within the DUST 514 development team has made it difficult to continuously engage the CPM in open dialogue regarding the development of DUST 514, and this lack of dialogue sometimes resulted in dropped balls, or topics being lost in the accelerated pace of development. However, we think that by understanding the difficulties and mistakes of the past, we can turn the CPM into the effective council that both CCP and the CPM have always hoped it would be. From the beginning, CCP Xhagen and I, CCP Dolan, were the primary points of contact for all CSM and CPM matters. However, with CCP Xhagen transitioning into his role as a producer for EVE Online, I have realized that I need to enlist additional help so that we can turn the CPM into the success it deserves to be. The recent arrival and support of CCP Rouge (Executive Producer) has been immensely helpful in involving the CPM deeply in to the development process in our Shanghai office. The CPM has already held several meetings with him over the last couple of weeks and will continue to do so in the coming future. Additionally, CCP Saberwing (DUST 514 Community Manager) will be working with the CPM to organize and oversee the CPMGÇÖs direct connection with all of the relevant DUST 514 Development teams. With this new team in place, we anticipate a more active and fluid level of communication between CCP and the CPM. Similarly, the monthly release schedule necessitated by DUST 514GÇÖs rapid development has provided its own set of unique challenges and opportunities. It has required a reassessment of our communication pathways, as we have found that the structure derived from our relationship with the CSM simply isnGÇÖt applicable. To address this issue, CCP will now focus on talking to the CPM when setting goals and designs for features far in advance of them actually being worked on. This will allow their feedback to be concentrated on the finer details once development has begun. While there have been difficulties over the past 6 months, the CPM has demonstrated a continued commitment to working with CCP, and I must commend them for their dedicated time and effort. Their institution is invaluable in a game as new and rapidly growing as DUST 514, especially given the single shared universe it inhabits with EVE Online. CCP is fully committed to strengthening their relationship with the CPM and growing DUST 514 through the help of their collective expertise. --CCP Dolan, on behalf of the DUST development team clap clap clap The one thing that keeps me around CCP games for decades, constant never ending improvement, of everything. Even communication.
Laurent Cazaderon What The French 1961	Posted - 2013.10.29 09:24:00 - [24] - Quote THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: "high level knowledgeable players"? PLEASE. kain speros the only decent player in CPM, as well as being the only active player, probably the only one to play PC battles and probably the only one with a proto suit, oddly enough hes the only one with a decent head around his shoulders and a REAL understanding of this game as well as its players. But the rest of the CPM is garbage in different ways like inactivity, bias, outright aholes, or just plain dumb. I could give multiple examples of each of these. I'll suspect you're just a troll. I do play, am CEO of my corp, play PC, got 20+ million SP and run the only french website on the game. And the other people you're criticizing all know the game like if they were born in it. And certainly gave much more interesting input than what you could in a lifetime judging by the brightness of your intervention. Having critics is one thing. Being plain insulting while not knowing who you're talking about is another. Now, to more constructive business... This statement is a good thing. It flashes light on some issues we had that can explain the supermassive black hole feeling most people probably had with the CPM so far. I never hid the fact it pretty much pushed me away from the game, combined to a general exhaustion feeling after focusing too much and too seriously on Dust for more than a year. But now, this is behind. And all i'm interested in, and i think most people CPM or not feel the same, is looking forward to how the game will change and evolve and how everyone can help in the process. Errors and mistakes are good for one thing : learning. So now, let's all join hands and sing while shooting people in the face.
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 602	Posted - 2013.10.29 09:39:00 - [25] - Quote This is a long overdue statement on the direction and past problems with the CPM as far as CCP's interaction with them has proceded up to now. While most here will understand that problems with the launch of Uprising, the departure of the previous Excutive Producer and the number of staff changes and additions to the Dust team over the last couple of months in particular, this statement would appear to some, as an attempt to simply gloss over past mistakes and sing a chorus of 'Don't Worry, Be Happy'. Without a public and forensic breakdown of previous mistakes, how they happened and what is being put in place to prevent it in the future, this statement is merely PR fluff. Well meaning and positive fluff but fluff never the less. Part of the problem is the sheer level of secrecy that the Shanghai office seems to want to maintain. There are those in the playbase and some so far in this thread that cry out that X member of the CPM is does more than Y member and why is Z member even on it when they don't do anything. They couldn't be further from the truth in most of these assertions. The truth is that the CPM has and continues to do a lot of work but the NDA they have to operate under is tighter than a ducks arse!! It has come to light after the fact several times now, that it's so restrictive that they have in the past been prevented from telling the playbase good news than might placate some of the forum fury!! When the minutes from the meetings they've had haven't been released or CCP doesnt keep the playerbase informed of these meetings at all, then the tin foil hatteray explodes over the forums and the chat channels. This just creates a climate of mistrust and disbelieve in the playerbase which just makes the job of CCP even harder. The thing that makes it all ridiculous as well is that the secrecy is absolutely pointless. We all pretty much know whats on the road map if you follow the dev's on twitter and the far too infrequent blogs so why keep every aspect of an upcoming feature secret? Tell us your thoughts, explain thats is a work in progress and not set in stone and we'll understand. You can keep some things quiet but come on, loosen up a little. And why is it that literally everything that the CPM does has to be communicated by them? Hans' CPM reports have been the ONLY indication of any discussion between them and CCP. Why is he doing the job of CCP in that regard? If the community team just had a locked thread within the Council Chamber, detailing the meetings and discussions they've had with the CPM and the bullet points of those meetings then this would go a long way to keep the playerbase informed. Part of these problems should be lessened now that we have the beginnings of a staffed community team being put in place. LogiBro has done a lot since his joining and with Sabrewing now in place to co-ordinate it all we hopefully see CCP getting better at this. But the fact remains that six months into this, we still haven't got a Charter or White Paper for the CPM. We haven't got a clue as to the election process of the next CPM. We've never had the minutes or breakdown of these meetings and all of that is entirely the fault of CCP. This could've and should've been the minimum we'd expect in place by now. The next CPM should be able to do the job from day one, knowing who to speak to about any aspect of the game and how to go about communicating that to the playerbase in a way that shows that progress is being made. Its clear that a lot of work still needs to be done to enable that and its also clear that the level of secrecy needs to be toned down a hell of a lot. It's a console game after all that CCP is working on, not the computer launching sequence for nukes. Mercenary Clone of Dennie Fleetfoot CEO of DUST University
Absolute Idiom II SyNergy Gaming EoN. 822	Posted - 2013.10.29 10:21:00 - [26] - Quote TL;DR: We're back at square one Fanfest 2012 - Winning Team + MVP - £1100 in prizes Fanfest 2013 - Winning Team - £500 in prizes Fanfest 2014 - ???
Laurent Cazaderon What The French 1962	Posted - 2013.10.29 10:43:00 - [27] - Quote Absolute Idiom II wrote: TL;DR: We're back at square one No dude we're not. Or if this is square one, then we were in oblivion before
David Spd Caldari State 80	Posted - 2013.10.29 10:57:00 - [28] - Quote As long as CCP is capable of actually taking feedback (including negative) and adjusting their game as a result, then hopefully we'll see substantial improvement. On the other hand, if we keep seeing changes like the recent marketing changes (the alleged "healthy" decision of removing BPOs) there will be essentially no reason for non-hardcore vets to put money into this game. If majority don't want to put money into this game then all of this progress is irrelevant. Players need permanent solutions so they don't feel like they're punished for spending their real life money. ->I'm a closed beta vet; I just don't post often<- "Other people just complicate my life." ~Solid Snake
Laurent Cazaderon What The French 1965	Posted - 2013.10.29 11:43:00 - [29] - Quote David Spd wrote: As long as CCP continues to be capable of actually taking feedback (including negative) and adjusting their game as a result, then hopefully we'll see substantial improvement in the future. On the other hand, if we keep seeing changes like the recent marketing changes (the alleged "healthy" decision of removing BPOs) there will be essentially no reason for non-hardcore vets to put money into this game. It's been stated plenty of times, but the current "vets" numbers are slowly dying off, and even though "new" vets are coming into play I really can't see how it's a good idea to shut out one group of your players in the HOPES that a new future will bring what you need. If majority don't want to put money into this game then all of this progress is irrelevant. Players need permanent solutions so they don't feel like they're punished for spending their real life money. The only people that will see major benefits (as usual) from Aurum consumables is vets, since the places they play actually make a substantial return in the form of ISK, officer items & SP. Any other player is essentially wasting their money for short-term instant gratification. If you guys get to keep our hard earned money AND Aurum we buy, then why shouldn't we be allowed to keep the things we purchase? That is the fundamental flaw with offering countless Aurum consumables to people that believe Aurum item value is higher than it actually is, even though Aurum itself is sold at a "premium" pricetag. Purchases under $20 won't really get you anything substantial. If you guys refuse to make BPOs permanent again, then please give us permanent cosmetics (at or under $20) that we can apply to any number of fittings without them "binding" to items. Make them non-tradeable to compensate. I can somewhat understand restricting/removing permanent items that impact gameplay, but cosmetics won't make you better at the game (unless you add "good" camo, but even then models/textures are dropped at distance) so there is no good reason to not have them permanent. Fact of the matter is, players that play free to play games need to have permanent options so they have continued motivation to fire up the game, even if it's just to enjoy (and flaunt) their purchases. Free players are CONTENT for paying players. Less players means less fun, which means even less players which results in the death of a game. A slow painful death that nobody wants to see. Aurum prices are outrageously high, and none of the stuff is permanent anymore. Nobody in their right mind should be expected to pay $40+ for something that could be gone in a week. Please, give us permanent solutions, and find a way to work around the "damage" to the game. If you guys can't manage that then you essentially kicked a hole in your own failboat and decided not to patch it up because it would take too long. And before someone makes a counter-argument "Aurum items will be sellable on the player market!" Okay, sure. But do you REALLY think someone is going to buy $20 of Aurum, buy Proto-tiered stuff and list it at a decent price? Even if they did, someone with mass quantitied of ISK would buy them out and relist them at market value (a higher price). Believing otherwise is naive. That's how businessmen make money: buy low, sell high. They don't care about the item, they care about the profit. The "HTFU NOOB" attitude of the general populace will obviously translate into the market as well. Don't even try to tell me otherwise. Prices don't go down either. As the game goes on, ISK will be valued less and less (due to the amount of it floating around), and as a result prices will go up to reflect that. Aurum items value will go up as well, which also means that eventually you'll have to spend even MORE real money in order to get the same kind of net profit that you did in the past. Permanent solutions. Cosmetics at the very least. Non-tradeable to encourage people to give money to CCP, rather than players. CCP needs the money to keep the game running. Until I personally see permanent cosmetics CCP will continue to not see a single penny from me. All there is to it. You make very good points. Most of them have already been brought up to CCP and we expect to discuss it further very soon. I tend to agree with you (and i'm not alone) that the large variety of Aurum items offered makes it difficult to actually see the purpose they're supposed to fulfill. All i'll say is that this is being thought over inside CCPs. I especially support the cosmetic side of your post. Vanity items are the one kind of paid items that can offer a long time use and never affect the balance of the game. Also, who wouldnt like running in its favorite color pattern ? Or set a corp wide color scheme (hey dennis). So yeah, good input.
Brush Master HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 939	Posted - 2013.10.29 12:35:00 - [30] - Quote It is a good statement and I look forward to seeing what action becomes of the words. GÇá Havok Core - Closed Beta Corp - Accepting Applications Here GÇá CEO // [email protected]

Egypt Musk A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 38	Posted - 2013.10.29 12:45:00 - [31] - Quote CCP Dolan wrote: The CPM was a selected, diverse group of high level, knowledgeable players aimed to represent DUST 514 players to the development team. I swear they all are originally from beta max good diverse focus group. Aeon Amadi for CPM!!
Laurent Cazaderon What The French 1967	Posted - 2013.10.29 13:01:00 - [32] - Quote Egypt Musk wrote: CCP Dolan wrote: The CPM was a selected, diverse group of high level, knowledgeable players aimed to represent DUST 514 players to the development team. I swear they all are originally from beta max good diverse focus group. Aeon Amadi for CPM!! Nope, we arent :)
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 3514	Posted - 2013.10.29 13:29:00 - [33] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: "high level knowledgeable players"? PLEASE. kain speros the only decent player in CPM, as well as being the only active player, probably the only one to play PC battles and probably the only one with a proto suit, oddly enough hes the only one with a decent head around his shoulders and a REAL understanding of this game as well as its players. But the rest of the CPM is garbage in different ways like inactivity, bias, outright aholes, or just plain dumb. I could give multiple examples of each of these. Troll or not..... I do play, am CEO of my corp, play PC, got 20+ million SP and run the only french website on the game. And the other people you're criticizing all know the game like if they were born in it. And certainly gave much more interesting input than what you could in a lifetime judging by the brightness of your intervention. Having critics is one thing. Being plain insulting while not knowing who you're talking about is another. Now, to more constructive business... This statement is a good thing. It flashes light on some issues we had that can explain the supermassive black hole feeling most people probably had with the CPM so far. I never hid the fact it pretty much pushed me away from the game, combined to a general exhaustion feeling after focusing too much and too seriously on Dust for more than a year. But now, this is behind. And all i'm interested in, and i think most people CPM or not feel the same, is looking forward to how the game will change and evolve and how everyone can help in the process. Errors and mistakes are good for one thing : learning. So now, let's all join hands and sing while shooting people in the face. Screen capping this epic pwnage. ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
Cass Caul Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 196	Posted - 2013.10.29 22:02:00 - [34] - Quote CCP Dolan wrote: CPM was a selected, diverse group of high level, knowledgeable players aimed to represent DUST 514 players to the development team. they are anything but skilled. They are not a good representation of the DUST 514 community. They barely play the game if they do at all. Be like the CSM and actually elect people that will put the time into being a part of it.
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 577	Posted - 2013.10.29 22:38:00 - [35] - Quote I'd like to take the time to sate again, Mossellia Delt (myself) will be running for the CPM1 once the CPM0 can figure out the election process. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt (The Generals) / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence)
crazy space 1 Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 1944	Posted - 2013.10.30 02:08:00 - [36] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: "high level knowledgeable players"? PLEASE. kain speros the only decent player in CPM, as well as being the only active player, probably the only one to play PC battles and probably the only one with a proto suit, oddly enough hes the only one with a decent head around his shoulders and a REAL understanding of this game as well as its players. But the rest of the CPM is garbage in different ways like inactivity, bias, outright aholes, or just plain dumb. I could give multiple examples of each of these. Troll or not..... I do play, am CEO of my corp, play PC, got 20+ million SP and run the only french website on the game. And the other people you're criticizing all know the game like if they were born in it. And certainly gave much more interesting input than what you could in a lifetime judging by the brightness of your intervention. Having critics is one thing. Being plain insulting while not knowing who you're talking about is another. Now, to more constructive business... This statement is a good thing. It flashes light on some issues we had that can explain the supermassive black hole feeling most people probably had with the CPM so far. I never hid the fact it pretty much pushed me away from the game, combined to a general exhaustion feeling after focusing too much and too seriously on Dust for more than a year. But now, this is behind. And all i'm interested in, and i think most people CPM or not feel the same, is looking forward to how the game will change and evolve and how everyone can help in the process. Errors and mistakes are good for one thing : learning. So now, let's all join hands and sing while shooting people in the face. Well. to be fair you are less "talkative", and also the most knowledgeable member on the CPM.
Laurent Cazaderon What The French 1981	Posted - 2013.10.30 09:23:00 - [37] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: CCP Dolan wrote: CPM was a selected, diverse group of high level, knowledgeable players aimed to represent DUST 514 players to the development team. they are anything but skilled. They are not a good representation of the DUST 514 community. They barely play the game if they do at all. Be like the CSM and actually elect people that will put the time into being a part of it. Yet another someone who obviously knows what he's talking about Just mentioning the fact we should have been elected, when we're bound to create that election system, is proof #1 you should have kept your mouth shut. As for playing and skill, please do find me on the BF.
Laurent Cazaderon What The French 1981	Posted - 2013.10.30 09:26:00 - [38] - Quote crazy space 1 wrote: Laurent Cazaderon wrote: THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: "high level knowledgeable players"? PLEASE. kain speros the only decent player in CPM, as well as being the only active player, probably the only one to play PC battles and probably the only one with a proto suit, oddly enough hes the only one with a decent head around his shoulders and a REAL understanding of this game as well as its players. But the rest of the CPM is garbage in different ways like inactivity, bias, outright aholes, or just plain dumb. I could give multiple examples of each of these. Troll or not..... I do play, am CEO of my corp, play PC, got 20+ million SP and run the only french website on the game. And the other people you're criticizing all know the game like if they were born in it. And certainly gave much more interesting input than what you could in a lifetime judging by the brightness of your intervention. Having critics is one thing. Being plain insulting while not knowing who you're talking about is another. Now, to more constructive business... This statement is a good thing. It flashes light on some issues we had that can explain the supermassive black hole feeling most people probably had with the CPM so far. I never hid the fact it pretty much pushed me away from the game, combined to a general exhaustion feeling after focusing too much and too seriously on Dust for more than a year. But now, this is behind. And all i'm interested in, and i think most people CPM or not feel the same, is looking forward to how the game will change and evolve and how everyone can help in the process. Errors and mistakes are good for one thing : learning. So now, let's all join hands and sing while shooting people in the face. Well. to be fair you are less "talkative", and also the most knowledgeable member on the CPM. Well i'm french, so cant be that "talkative" :D But seriously though, there are some CPM members i think most people underestimate the commitment they showed and how the apparent lack of knowledge one could suspect is very very wrong. It's a solid group in terms of discussion, opposing ideas and taking into account what players are saying out there. Also, it's a much more difficult task than one could anticipate. I know i did not. but hey, adapt or die
CHIPMINT BUTTERCUP 113	Posted - 2013.10.30 12:01:00 - [39] - Quote Meh, why should we believe any of this? Still no rollover SP system. CCP Cmdr Wang wrote: "We are well aware of the fact that the daily/weekly skill point rollover system is the favorite amongst the community, and we are implementing such a system aimed at the next major release." "We would like to remind you that these changes do not represent the final skill point system and that we are still working hard on getting to the fully polished rollover system later on." https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=486408#post486408 CCP Frame wrote: We will monitor the situation after the changes are live and look forward to receiving feedback from you. Once again, we would like to remind you that weekly skill point rollover system is being worked on and that this is just the temporary solution that we are implementing. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=503133#post503133 DUST514 Love The Dream Hate The Product (>GÇ+Gùá)G£î
Leither Yiltron KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 750	Posted - 2013.10.30 20:43:00 - [40] - Quote The CPM-CCP dialog yet again hits its increasingly traditional CCP response note like clockwork. Sincerity from both the CPM and CCP in trying to engage with each other and produce the bare necessities of a working CPM doesn't really seem to be in question. Just like it didn't seem to be in doubt the last time we had a problem stretch with the CPM's development. And that time seemed just as sincere as when the CPM was originally appointed. Perhaps you guys and gals at CCP will understand when I say that the message here is simultaneously another welcome reaffirming of CCP's commitment to the CPM concept and also completely worthless unaccompanied. The trick here is to follow up this post with action- publicly visible action at that. If within a month CCP and the CPM haven't created a charter with all the details that entails then the message here is as worthless as the last few rounds of nice words on the topic. Clear, goal-driven, and rapid action on the CPM front is the only way to avoid losing most of the already tenuous faith anybody has in CCP's ability to actually get the job done. The ball's in your court CCP'ers, probably for the last time. It'd be best to hit an ace or step out of the game. PC Coordinator for RISE of LEGION Have a pony

Celus Ivara DUST University Ivy League 122	Posted - 2013.10.30 23:15:00 - [41] - Quote Though I won't strike quite the same tone as Leither, my view on the situation is the same: Great words, CCP! Exactly what I was hoping to hear. But, we must acknowledge that words without actions are meaningless. It is important for all parties to learn the lessons of the past year, and move forward with strong actions in the coming months.
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC Intara Direct Action Caldari State 109	Posted - 2013.10.31 03:33:00 - [42] - Quote CCP Dolan wrote: Just over 6 months ago, CCP formed the first iteration of the Council of Planetary Management (CPM) for DUST 514. The CPM was a selected, diverse group of high level, knowledgeable players aimed to represent DUST 514 players to the development team. You can read more about their original purpose here, but IGÇÖd like to take some time to talk about their growth, current and past integration into the DUST development process, and opportunities to improve their effectiveness for both players and CCP. The CPM was inspired by EVE OnlineGÇÖs Council of Stellar Management (CSM), a democratically elected player counsel that acts as a representative body for the player-base. The CSM serves a year-long term and, along with regular digital meetings with EVE development teams, meets directly with CCP development teams several times at intensive, in-person summits. You can read more about the CSM here. Among the primary functions of the CSM, now in its 8th seated counsel, has been to act as a GÇ£focus groupGÇ¥ for the EVE development teams by getting early access to information and providing feedback on upcoming features in order to help shape the ongoing development of the game. The CPM was formed in the similar hope that they would provide a representative voice for players and be equally as helpful in the development of DUST 514. However, changes in key personnel within the DUST 514 development team has made it difficult to continuously engage the CPM in open dialogue regarding the development of DUST 514, and this lack of dialogue sometimes resulted in dropped balls, or topics being lost in the accelerated pace of development. However, we think that by understanding the difficulties and mistakes of the past, we can turn the CPM into the effective council that both CCP and the CPM have always hoped it would be. From the beginning, CCP Xhagen and I, CCP Dolan, were the primary points of contact for all CSM and CPM matters. However, with CCP Xhagen transitioning into his role as a producer for EVE Online, I have realized that I need to enlist additional help so that we can turn the CPM into the success it deserves to be. The recent arrival and support of CCP Rouge (Executive Producer) has been immensely helpful in involving the CPM deeply in to the development process in our Shanghai office. The CPM has already held several meetings with him over the last couple of weeks and will continue to do so in the coming future. Additionally, CCP Saberwing (DUST 514 Community Manager) will be working with the CPM to organize and oversee the CPMGÇÖs direct connection with all of the relevant DUST 514 Development teams. With this new team in place, we anticipate a more active and fluid level of communication between CCP and the CPM. Similarly, the monthly release schedule necessitated by DUST 514GÇÖs rapid development has provided its own set of unique challenges and opportunities. It has required a reassessment of our communication pathways, as we have found that the structure derived from our relationship with the CSM simply isnGÇÖt applicable. To address this issue, CCP will now focus on talking to the CPM when setting goals and designs for features far in advance of them actually being worked on. This will allow their feedback to be concentrated on the finer details once development has begun. While there have been difficulties over the past 6 months, the CPM has demonstrated a continued commitment to working with CCP, and I must commend them for their dedicated time and effort. Their institution is invaluable in a game as new and rapidly growing as DUST 514, especially given the single shared universe it inhabits with EVE Online. CCP is fully committed to strengthening their relationship with the CPM and growing DUST 514 through the help of their collective expertise. --CCP Dolan, on behalf of the DUST development team The garbage cpm and their influence from being the eve nerds they are and NOT shooters is the PRIMARY problem in this game. We need people who shoot not these spreadsheet scrubs. CPM members should not be lomg term eve players, they have long supported no respecs or REFUNDS even after we pay you aurum for something which in my mimd is cash, and you still refuse anything in return and its the influence of the cpms eve mentality that has helped drive you down such an incredibly destitute path. Get rid of eve players from the cpm first.
Zatara Rought MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 1454	Posted - 2013.10.31 08:25:00 - [43] - Quote INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: CCP Dolan wrote: Just over 6 months ago, CCP formed the first iteration of the Council of Planetary Management (CPM) for DUST 514. The CPM was a selected, diverse group of high level, knowledgeable players aimed to represent DUST 514 players to the development team. You can read more about their original purpose here, but IGÇÖd like to take some time to talk about their growth, current and past integration into the DUST development process, and opportunities to improve their effectiveness for both players and CCP. The CPM was inspired by EVE OnlineGÇÖs Council of Stellar Management (CSM), a democratically elected player counsel that acts as a representative body for the player-base. The CSM serves a year-long term and, along with regular digital meetings with EVE development teams, meets directly with CCP development teams several times at intensive, in-person summits. You can read more about the CSM here. Among the primary functions of the CSM, now in its 8th seated counsel, has been to act as a GÇ£focus groupGÇ¥ for the EVE development teams by getting early access to information and providing feedback on upcoming features in order to help shape the ongoing development of the game. The CPM was formed in the similar hope that they would provide a representative voice for players and be equally as helpful in the development of DUST 514. However, changes in key personnel within the DUST 514 development team has made it difficult to continuously engage the CPM in open dialogue regarding the development of DUST 514, and this lack of dialogue sometimes resulted in dropped balls, or topics being lost in the accelerated pace of development. However, we think that by understanding the difficulties and mistakes of the past, we can turn the CPM into the effective council that both CCP and the CPM have always hoped it would be. From the beginning, CCP Xhagen and I, CCP Dolan, were the primary points of contact for all CSM and CPM matters. However, with CCP Xhagen transitioning into his role as a producer for EVE Online, I have realized that I need to enlist additional help so that we can turn the CPM into the success it deserves to be. The recent arrival and support of CCP Rouge (Executive Producer) has been immensely helpful in involving the CPM deeply in to the development process in our Shanghai office. The CPM has already held several meetings with him over the last couple of weeks and will continue to do so in the coming future. Additionally, CCP Saberwing (DUST 514 Community Manager) will be working with the CPM to organize and oversee the CPMGÇÖs direct connection with all of the relevant DUST 514 Development teams. With this new team in place, we anticipate a more active and fluid level of communication between CCP and the CPM. Similarly, the monthly release schedule necessitated by DUST 514GÇÖs rapid development has provided its own set of unique challenges and opportunities. It has required a reassessment of our communication pathways, as we have found that the structure derived from our relationship with the CSM simply isnGÇÖt applicable. To address this issue, CCP will now focus on talking to the CPM when setting goals and designs for features far in advance of them actually being worked on. This will allow their feedback to be concentrated on the finer details once development has begun. While there have been difficulties over the past 6 months, the CPM has demonstrated a continued commitment to working with CCP, and I must commend them for their dedicated time and effort. Their institution is invaluable in a game as new and rapidly growing as DUST 514, especially given the single shared universe it inhabits with EVE Online. CCP is fully committed to strengthening their relationship with the CPM and growing DUST 514 through the help of their collective expertise. --CCP Dolan, on behalf of the DUST development team The garbage cpm and their influence from being the eve nerds they are and NOT shooters is the PRIMARY problem in this game. We need people who shoot not these spreadsheet scrubs. CPM members should not be lomg term eve players, they have long supported no respecs or REFUNDS even after we pay you aurum for something which in my mimd is cash, and you still refuse anything in return and its the influence of the cpms eve mentality that has helped drive you down such an incredibly destitute path. Get rid of eve players from the cpm first. I used to think the same but can attest having worked with kain and playing laurent they both possess skill. Nova I haven't seen go positive and iron wolf I've never seen him fare that well either...Jenza I lol'ed at in games...back in chrome when I saw her and nova ha. Heinrich I haven't seen but I'm sure that's explainable. CCP has 2 sides of the brain. Problem is there's nothing right in the left brain and nothing left in the right brain.
Dante Kretschmer D3LTA ACADEMY 90	Posted - 2013.10.31 10:34:00 - [44] - Quote I hope this statement from CCP translates into something tangible in the near future. Also I wanted to thank the CPM for all the work they do as I'm seeing many biased resentment in the thread. I couldn't care less about how they were elected but I think they're doing an amazing job for free, and yes, they do know the game like if it was their son. They spend a lot of their free time in doing this for us, so be more appreciative and less whinning. I just hope that when we get elections (something which I'm not particularly looking forward to) we have more people supporting dedicated players, like the current CPM, than an angry mob thinking they will do better. Good job and keep it up!
Alex Smoke The Nommo Insurance Fraud. 99	Posted - 2013.10.31 11:06:00 - [45] - Quote CCP Dolan wrote: Their institution is invaluable in a game as new and rapidly growing as DUST 514.... --CCP Dolan, on behalf of the DUST development team Wait, what? http://eve-offline.net/?server=dust How is this growing exactly? Explain to me like I'm a 6 year old.
R F Gyro Clones 4u 602	Posted - 2013.10.31 22:23:00 - [46] - Quote Alex Smoke wrote: CCP Dolan wrote: Their institution is invaluable in a game as new and rapidly growing as DUST 514.... --CCP Dolan, on behalf of the DUST development team Wait, what? http://eve-offline.net/?server=dust How is this growing exactly? Explain to me like I'm a 6 year old. Well, what happens is you have a game, and that game has a feature list. Some games don't get new features after they are launched. Some games get new features once or twice a year. And some games get new features every month or two. The games that get new features every month or two are called "rapidly growing" by us grownups. RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
Alex Smoke The Nommo Insurance Fraud. 100	Posted - 2013.11.01 01:52:00 - [47] - Quote The game is growing neither rapidly in features, nor in players; you're misinformed please educate yourself.
R F Gyro Clones 4u 602	Posted - 2013.11.01 13:12:00 - [48] - Quote Alex Smoke wrote: The game is growing neither rapidly in features, nor in players; you're misinformed please educate yourself. I did educate myself: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1342748#post1342748 I do appear to have misunderstood your previous post. I assumed you wanted us to treat you as if you were 6 years old. I didn't realise you actually are 6 years old, but your petulant tantrum has shown me the error of my ways. RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1065	Posted - 2013.11.01 17:18:00 - [49] - Quote what we need is to vote in our own cpm. no offence to cpm 0, but they really don't get this game, or what the community wants.
Zyrus Amalomyn Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 271	Posted - 2013.11.01 23:28:00 - [50] - Quote I'll believe it when I see it, and when I see active steps taken towards a charter and a CPM that players can elect. Empty promises mean nothing.

Alex Smoke The Nommo Insurance Fraud. 100	Posted - 2013.11.02 02:14:00 - [51] - Quote R F Gyro wrote: Alex Smoke wrote: The game is growing neither rapidly in features, nor in players; you're misinformed please educate yourself. I did educate myself: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1342748#post1342748 My graphs still show player numbers dropping, and your feature list is a joke (vaporware); the way the current patches are going that list won't be finished until 2020. You're either naive or just plain stupid, this game has gone nowhere since the official launch. It's still just a lobby shooter with pizz poor performance and balance issues, and the EVE link is a joke. You must have really low expectations as a player, I guess you'll take anything as long as it's free.
R F Gyro Clones 4u 603	Posted - 2013.11.02 10:57:00 - [52] - Quote Alex Smoke wrote: R F Gyro wrote: Alex Smoke wrote: The game is growing neither rapidly in features, nor in players; you're misinformed please educate yourself. I did educate myself: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1342748#post1342748 My graphs still show player numbers dropping, and your feature list is a joke (vaporware); the way the current patches are going that list won't be finished until 2020. You're either naive or just plain stupid, this game has gone nowhere since the official launch. It's still just a lobby shooter with pizz poor performance and balance issues, and the EVE link is a joke. You must have really low expectations as a player, I guess you'll take anything as long as it's free. I understand that player numbers are dropping; I'm not disputing that and can read Chribba's graphs as well as anyone. I'm pointing out that there is more than one way for a game to be growing, and providing evidence that Dust is growing in terms of features. I presume that you read my feature list with your 6 year old's eyes, as (apart from the 1.6 items marked with question marks) it quite clearly is a list of features that had already been implemented. It is therefore obviously not vapourware. Saying that the list won't be finished until 2020 when the vast majority of it is already in game and the remaining items are currently planned for the next monthly release or two is just making you look silly. I have quite high expectations as a player, and CCP aren't really meeting them. I think they really dropped the ball in the first half of this year, and I think the change of leadership demonstrates that they know that. That doesn't change the fact that they are releasing new features & content into the game every month or two. And yes, I'll take whatever I'm given in a free game, as long as I enjoy it. If I don't enjoy it I won't play it. RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
Dust Junky 4Life Shitstorm Inc 118	Posted - 2013.11.02 15:20:00 - [53] - Quote CPM= Crooked Poo Munchers These clowns ONLY care about themselves and how to make the game better for THEM. They have done MORE damage then good. They requested changes that no one else wanted. I have NO RESPECT for these clowns. I will not stop until they are all bleeding out in a pile of poo. Stop fking up the game and worry about ADDING NEW STUFF. A shitstorm is coming.......
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 9853	Posted - 2013.11.04 09:51:00 - [54] - Quote Dust Junky 4Life wrote: CPM= Crooked Poo Munchers These clowns ONLY care about themselves and how to make the game better for THEM. They have done MORE damage then good. They requested changes that no one else wanted. I have NO RESPECT for these clowns. I will not stop until they are all bleeding out in a pile of poo. Stop fking up the game and worry about ADDING NEW STUFF. Examples? CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier Specialist Curren/t Theme \\= Advanced Heavy Machine Gun =// Unlocked.
CEOPyrex CloneA The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 312	Posted - 2013.11.04 11:54:00 - [55] - Quote Seriously do we even need a CPM? surely with additions to CCP like logibro etc these are real dust players who get the game, why do we need to select a small unrepresentative group of players to be a focus group? Do i need to spout marketing 101? - a focus group is something that changes each time you change the product...... CCP just keep the eve players happy with the CSM so they can feel important for once in their lives that they get to direct SPACE GAMES, dust i think isn't the same thing. Don't elevate a small group of people into 'hubris' - spread your focus group around, setup virtual groups and test a much wider sample of players Just my 10 cents.
Ryme Intrinseca Seraphim Auxiliaries 177	Posted - 2013.11.04 12:15:00 - [56] - Quote CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: Seriously do we even need a CPM? surely with additions to CCP like logibro etc these are real dust players who get the game, why do we need to select a small unrepresentative group of players to be a focus group? Do i need to spout marketing 101? - a focus group is something that changes each time you change the product...... CCP just keep the eve players happy with the CSM so they can feel important for once in their lives that they get to direct SPACE GAMES, dust i think isn't the same thing. Don't elevate a small group of people into 'hubris' - spread your focus group around, setup virtual groups and test a much wider sample of players Just my 10 cents. I agree with this. Even if the CPM was elected, consulting it would be a waste of time as it would just reflect whatever biases that small elite happens to have at that time. The CPM should be abolished with the wider community treated as the first and last port of call for consultation.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1606	Posted - 2013.11.04 13:08:00 - [57] - Quote Yet more talk about how the CPM is useful yet nothing ever seems to happen CPM is a dead horse and consistantly CCP trys to poke it with a stick to make it seem relevent and even attaches it to a pully system and dangles it infront of the community to show how alive it is Problem is its been dead since day 2 All they have to do is figure out a voting system, even then CPM1 wont be any better i believe but at least i get the chance to vote someone in of relevence who may actually speak sense and help improve the game and give back valid intel and opinions to the devs or it will just be an exact copy of CPM0 and all they will do is push there own agenda for the corp/alliance they are in and for the weapons/dropsuits they use You had 1 job to do and you still havnt done it
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 303	Posted - 2013.11.04 15:03:00 - [58] - Quote CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: Seriously do we even need a CPM? surely with additions to CCP like logibro etc these are real dust players who get the game, why do we need to select a small unrepresentative group of players to be a focus group? Do i need to spout marketing 101? - a focus group is something that changes each time you change the product...... CCP just keep the eve players happy with the CSM so they can feel important for once in their lives that they get to direct SPACE GAMES, dust i think isn't the same thing. Don't elevate a small group of people into 'hubris' - spread your focus group around, setup virtual groups and test a much wider sample of players Just my 10 cents. I believe that questioning new players, vets, casual and hadcore players alike is the key here also. Having a (semi-inactive) veteran group sitting around for a year without any new blood is not a good idea. GûîGöéGûêGòæGûîGòæGûîGòæ la+äa+ú-ö-¦ +º-¦a¦Åt-ö-éta¦Ça¦Åa+á -ö+É-öa+¼-öa+ä-¦ a+¼a¦Çll a+áa¦Åt a+úa+ä+¬-ö +Éa¦Åa+ó +ª-¦a¦Åa¦ô t-Æa¦Ça+ú a¦Æ-öa+äa¦ô... GòæGûîGòæGûîGòæGûêGöéGûî
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 9900	Posted - 2013.11.05 05:24:00 - [59] - Quote CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: Seriously do we even need a CPM? surely with additions to CCP like logibro etc these are real dust players who get the game, why do we need to select a small unrepresentative group of players to be a focus group? Do i need to spout marketing 101? - a focus group is something that changes each time you change the product...... CCP just keep the eve players happy with the CSM so they can feel important for once in their lives that they get to direct SPACE GAMES, dust i think isn't the same thing. Don't elevate a small group of people into 'hubris' - spread your focus group around, setup virtual groups and test a much wider sample of players Just my 10 cents. We're not a focus group. The more accurate term you're looking for is advocacy group. http://themittani.com/features/how-its-made-csm-and-sma-fix Focus groups do not function the way the article does at all. I love you man but please educate yourself a bit more on the subject. I mean its combat rifle for crying out loud get it right for once... CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier Specialist Current Theme \\= Advanced Plasma Rifle =// Unlocked
Laurent Cazaderon What The French 1993	Posted - 2013.11.05 08:45:00 - [60] - Quote Dust Junky 4Life wrote: CPM= Crooked Poo Munchers These clowns ONLY care about themselves and how to make the game better for THEM. They have done MORE damage then good. They requested changes that no one else wanted. I have NO RESPECT for these clowns. I will not stop until they are all bleeding out in a pile of poo. Stop fking up the game and worry about ADDING NEW STUFF. As IWS said : Examples ? You wont find any. And You're an obvious idiot that surely never red anything that has been said by either of us. Otherwise you'd know better than to just shout stupid BS like this. But hey, it's so "Cool" to criticize nowadays that ppl will just do it no matter how much they know on the matter.

Laurent Cazaderon What The French 1993	Posted - 2013.11.05 09:21:00 - [61] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: all they will do is push there own agenda for the corp/alliance they are in and for the weapons/dropsuits they use You had 1 job to do and you still havnt done it Ok, all of those accusing us CPM trying to push stuff for our alliance or ourselves over and over again when you have absolutely NO fact nor knowledge backing this up. Well screw you big time. Oh and i dont give a ** whether you think my reaction is appropriate or not At some point, investing your own time in something you're doing in full honesty and being criticized over and over and over again is both preposterous and a tad painfull. Tell me dude(s) (yeah you're not alone) ? do you wake up 1 hour or 2 earlier in the morning to have a meeting with Shangai people before going to work ? Or before sleeping ? Do you spend time writing stuff down and discussing with devs throughout the day making you stay at work that much longer because you left some work aside doing it ? NO. so please try and show some respect for the investment whether or not you like the outcome instead of just blabbing ridiculous accusations like this. And regarding the "they dont know anything about what's needed or what the community wants" coming from 4 month old player. Did you try and dig up the forum for past discussions of us when we were not even CPM yet ? Did you listen or read any of the roundtables\QA sessions at Fanfest to see what is our opinion on various matter regarding the game ? Surely not. As it would already be too much work for you to just check out a few forum thread. And you** want to vote the next CPM ? LOL. Lucky for us you're just a small bunch of loudy idiots and most people know better.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 9917	Posted - 2013.11.05 09:30:00 - [62] - Quote Meeting are 4 AM for me, and I have to transcribe the entire meeting just in case of accidents. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier Specialist Current Theme \\= Advanced Plasma Rifle =// Unlocked
CEOPyrex CloneA The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 317	Posted - 2013.11.05 09:37:00 - [63] - Quote Lots of patronising "you dont get us" posts by an army of CPM trying to hold onto their precious elevated statushood while blaming the community for not approaching them yet sitting on a pedestal creating barriers through arrogant posts..... I think this premise is done, or perhaps you think i should educate myself somemore so my opinion perhaps morphs to fit yours?
jenza aranda BetaMax. 2012	Posted - 2013.11.05 09:43:00 - [64] - Quote As Caz said, it can get quite irritating when people start claiming X CPM is good and X CPM is bad when they have absolutly no idea what goes on in the meetings. Hell, believe it or not, but I was the one who came up with an underlying system to get friendly fire into factional warfare, that idea evolved into the system that you know, it took sensible debate and discussion. These days I spend 99% of my time on my vehicle alt because of the need of feedback on vehicles of all kinds. I dont have to do this but i choose to do anyway. And frankly i find it kinda stupid that people critisize me simply because of my stance on awoxing or my opinions on respects. People dont need to be ingame "trustworthy" to be a good CPM, hell Mitani, leader of the goons, love him or hate him he got so much done during his term. Want to get to know me better? Please do! Im actually a human being and so long as there isnt a problem I am more than willing to chat. When I am not at work I hang out in the IRC channel or on skype (jenza514) Get to know us better, dont just knock us out of ignorance or out of frustration regarding the game because trust me, us lot are probably just as, if not more frustrated than you lot for many more reasons. 0101001101101111011011110110111010011001 Dust 514 101
Laurent Cazaderon What The French 1993	Posted - 2013.11.05 09:50:00 - [65] - Quote CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: Lots of patronising "you dont get us" posts by an army of CPM trying to hold onto their precious elevated statushood while blaming the community for not approaching them yet sitting on a pedestal creating barriers through arrogant posts..... I think this premise is done, or perhaps you think i should educate myself somemore so my opinion perhaps morphs to fit yours? I'm the one doing arrogant posts ? You have to be kidding me. And why do you get offended suddenly when the only people i am targetting are those thinking we're only doing this for ourselves ? Afaik, you never said such thing and just have doubts regarding how usefull a CPM actually is. And i get that. But that's not point here. Tbh, it's a fair question and something i wouldnt mind discussing. Is it usefull at all ? Is it usefull now or is it a matter of timing ? Me being angry is not even a question of determining if we are the best for the job. It's about easy critics and accusations. That i cannot stand. Quote: an army of CPM trying to hold onto their precious elevated statushood And again, you have no clue who i am nor what i want. You'd be surprised how quick i'd like to see the election process start and my term come to an end. So again dont try to step in my shoes and assume what i want. That's the only thing i cannot stand. Having a bunch of forum\internet warriors thinking they know everything and forgetting to give people the benefit of the doubt or even trying to think about the possibility that being CPM may be harder than it seems and not just about asking stuff and getting them. So yeah. bite me. Anyone will be welcome to take my place when the election process start. But trust me that then, you'd better do a hell of a job
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 589	Posted - 2013.11.05 09:58:00 - [66] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: Lots of patronising "you dont get us" posts by an army of CPM trying to hold onto their precious elevated statushood while blaming the community for not approaching them yet sitting on a pedestal creating barriers through arrogant posts..... I think this premise is done, or perhaps you think i should educate myself somemore so my opinion perhaps morphs to fit yours? I'm the one doing arrogant posts ? You have to be kidding me. And why do you get offended suddenly when the only people i am targetting are those thinking we're only doing this for ourselves ? Afaik, you never said such thing and just have doubts regarding how usefull a CPM actually is. And i get that. But that's not point here. Tbh, it's a fair question and something i wouldnt mind discussing. Is it usefull at all ? Is it usefull now or is it a matter of timing ? Me being angry is not even a question of determining if we are the best for the job. It's about easy critics and accusations. That i cannot stand. Quote: an army of CPM trying to hold onto their precious elevated statushood And again, you have no clue who i am nor what i want. You'd be surprised how quick i'd like to see the election process start and my term come to an end. So again dont try to step in my shoes and assume what i want. That's the only thing i cannot stand. Having a bunch of forum\internet warriors thinking they know everything and forgetting to give people the benefit of the doubt or even trying to think about the possibility that being CPM may be harder than it seems and not just about asking stuff and getting them. So yeah. bite me. Anyone will be welcome to take my place when the election process start. But trust me that then, you'd better do a hell of a job I'll be running to replace you, crazy, crazy french man Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 9917	Posted - 2013.11.05 10:03:00 - [67] - Quote I welcome others to take our seats and they too will understand that good CPMs wield pens and words far better than plasma rifles. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier Specialist Current Theme \\= Advanced Plasma Rifle =// Unlocked
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 589	Posted - 2013.11.05 10:07:00 - [68] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I welcome others to take our seats and they too will understand that good CPMs wield pens and words far better than plasma rifles. No problem IWS! Vote for me why dont cha Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 9918	Posted - 2013.11.05 10:11:00 - [69] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I welcome others to take our seats and they too will understand that good CPMs wield pens and words far better than plasma rifles. No problem IWS! Vote for me why dont cha Sell me a good campaign, sell me your resume and you too could possibly buy my vote. Remember anyone planning on running for CPM should already be already involving themselves with getting their names out. I recommend contacting podcasts, having blog spheres and starting good threads of discussion and debate. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier Specialist Current Theme \\= Advanced Plasma Rifle =// Unlocked
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 589	Posted - 2013.11.05 10:13:00 - [70] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I welcome others to take our seats and they too will understand that good CPMs wield pens and words far better than plasma rifles. No problem IWS! Vote for me why dont cha Sell me a good campaign, sell me your resume and you too could possibly buy my vote. Remember anyone planning on running for CPM should already be already involving themselves with getting their names out. I recommend contacting podcasts, having blog spheres and starting good threads of discussion and debate. Funny you should mention that IWS, I have had a thread or two about my campaign, Iv been getting my name out on here and in the game, have a few people who'll speak good will on my behalf, and im currently in talks with Gimble about being on his podcast (Iv been really busy these last two weeks when I was suppost to be on). Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)

Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 2075	Posted - 2013.11.05 10:14:00 - [71] - Quote CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: Seriously do we even need a CPM? surely with additions to CCP like logibro etc these are real dust players who get the game, why do we need to select a small unrepresentative group of players to be a focus group? Do i need to spout marketing 101? - a focus group is something that changes each time you change the product...... CCP just keep the eve players happy with the CSM so they can feel important for once in their lives that they get to direct SPACE GAMES, dust i think isn't the same thing. Don't elevate a small group of people into 'hubris' - spread your focus group around, setup virtual groups and test a much wider sample of players Just my 10 cents. You know, I actually agree with you, to a point. I've said it from the start. There's simply no way a 6-12 person group can provide effective feedback on all topics in an unbiased form. From the beginning, I've advocated that CCP instead make the "CPM" made up of several subgroups, much like ISD teams. These teams could be separated into groups like HAV, dropships, weapons, suits, etc. (You get the idea) and then the teams in question within CCP could poll the related player team without having the other teams stick their noses in and waste everyone's time with uninformed (and usually wrong) opinions. The "Main CPM" itself could be created by 'electing' leader/representatives from each team. However.... I do think you're missing the point. The vocal majority of /any/ community on the internet is going to be idiots. This is just a sad truth. No quality feedback, if any can ever really be gathered from these people. The real source of constructive, actionable feedback is the inteligent minority. I will make no claims that myself or my council dudebros are more intelligent than any others in that minority, simply that we're a part of that minority (Except IWS, obv ) People saying "Man, we'll elect people who will do such a better job" are simply looking to vilify without cause. The truth is, no one really knows what we're pushing for, in almost every case where they claim we push only our own agendas. We've love it to death if CCP allowed us to operate with complete transparency, but that is simply not going to happen, because CCP's information overlords need to justify their own jobs and need to micromanage every tidbit of information we release. I have no doubt in my mind that people chosen by the vocal majority without some method of filter on CCP's part would be far worse than what people falsely believe about CPM0. To this end, I have strongly advocated that during the selection process, the only people who should be eligible for election are people that CCP can look into their past history in the dust community and see a strong contribution. (Ironically enough, people like you, Pyrex, who have made countless tutorial videos) Podcasters, forum warriors, twitter bros, etc.... CCP should be able to look at a candidate and say "Yeah, this person is super dedicated, and they will make a good CPM." Being popular is no justification for being on the CPM. The capacity to remain profressional and forward even perspectives that are in direct opposition to your own are vital. This is the level of trust and maturity required to have a strong council. A level of maturity NOT shown by the vast majority of those on the internet. So, before you question the people on the council... I'd like to ask you to question what you actually know about what we've been doing these past six months. Then ask yourself if that's really a reason to have misgivings about the council. If you really sit there and analyze what we have done and what CCP has actually done in response... You would realize that if anything, it is CCP that has dropped the ball. The CPM warned them many times by raising red flags prior to something hitting the live builds (Flaylocks, the AFK "fix", the recent point cap hotfix, numerous exploits, etc.) all of which were pretty much ignored. That said, I will not say that we've been entirely without bias. After all, we're human. Sometimes when a topic of particular interest to one of us comes up, we can get a little over passionate. However, in all cases this has happened... the rest of the council has yanked the leash in a separate channel telling the person to STFU and ease up. You have only my word for this, of course. But rest assured that no single agenda can be pushed without the rest of the council say "Hey, hold on a minute. Look at why this is being said."
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 9918	Posted - 2013.11.05 10:17:00 - [72] - Quote /me finds it a bit unsettling that CCP Frame manages to read every single one of my posts... CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier Specialist Current Theme \\= Advanced Plasma Rifle =// Unlocked
jenza aranda BetaMax. 2012	Posted - 2013.11.05 10:20:00 - [73] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I welcome others to take our seats and they too will understand that good CPMs wield pens and words far better than plasma rifles. No problem IWS! Vote for me why dont cha Sell me a good campaign, sell me your resume and you too could possibly buy my vote. Remember anyone planning on running for CPM should already be already involving themselves with getting their names out. I recommend contacting podcasts, having blog spheres and starting good threads of discussion and debate. Funny you should mention that IWS, I have had a thread or two about my campaign, Iv been getting my name out on here and in the game, have a few people who'll speak good will on my behalf, and im currently in talks with Gimble about being on his podcast (Iv been really busy these last two weeks when I was suppost to be on). Okay, well why not try and do something for the community? I havnt had enough time to edit a lot of the wiki, there is still a lot of space missing or old stuff thats remained unchanged from older updates? how about get involved in one of the charity events some people are doing? There are many ways you can benifit the comunity beyond trying to get a pedestal. Dust 514 101 // Dust 514 Wiki
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 590	Posted - 2013.11.05 10:28:00 - [74] - Quote jenza aranda wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I welcome others to take our seats and they too will understand that good CPMs wield pens and words far better than plasma rifles. No problem IWS! Vote for me why dont cha Sell me a good campaign, sell me your resume and you too could possibly buy my vote. Remember anyone planning on running for CPM should already be already involving themselves with getting their names out. I recommend contacting podcasts, having blog spheres and starting good threads of discussion and debate. Funny you should mention that IWS, I have had a thread or two about my campaign, Iv been getting my name out on here and in the game, have a few people who'll speak good will on my behalf, and im currently in talks with Gimble about being on his podcast (Iv been really busy these last two weeks when I was suppost to be on). Okay, well why not try and do something for the community? I havnt had enough time to edit a lot of the wiki, there is still a lot of space missing or old stuff thats remained unchanged from older updates? how about get involved in one of the charity events some people are doing? There are many ways you can benifit the comunity beyond trying to get a pedestal. Is the wiki permission based or free to update or change without permission, either way, i'd be happy to help out with that, if I need a username and password+ permissions i'll contact you on skype. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
jenza aranda BetaMax. 2012	Posted - 2013.11.05 10:44:00 - [75] - Quote its completly free to update or change Dust 514 101 // Dust 514 Wiki
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 590	Posted - 2013.11.05 10:44:00 - [76] - Quote jenza aranda wrote: its completly free to update or change well awesome, I think i'll help out with that! Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
Nyx Linx Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2013.11.05 11:23:00 - [77] - Quote I wonder if the CPM has different representatives to the roles in the battlefield i.e. a logistics CPM, heavy CPM.
Laurent Cazaderon What The French 1993	Posted - 2013.11.05 12:40:00 - [78] - Quote Nyx Linx wrote: I wonder if the CPM has different representatives to the roles in the battlefield i.e. a logistics CPM, heavy CPM. Without being all the same, we do not represent each play style. But i tend to talk to people i know master specific playstyle whenever i need to. This Char i only use on the forum. To contact me : "Cazaderon" in game and on Skype. Et vive la France !
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division 194	Posted - 2013.11.05 14:27:00 - [79] - Quote On a personal note, i only know 2 cpm's. iWS, and jenza. Although for the future of CPM, i would prefer something around a 20-30 player group, and try and include a few 'do everything' generalists, in addition to every major role. Having people to talk to is always a good thing, especially for those of us that have no outside life... I'm in full support of CCP thus far, the new EP seems to be doing a wonderful job, seeing as we're getting the game sorted out. Sorry if i seem drawn out, i just like getting all of my information right. CCP wants me to specialize? But there's so many weapons! 'Unwise SP spending mode activated'
CEOPyrex CloneA The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 323	Posted - 2013.11.05 14:28:00 - [80] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: Seriously do we even need a CPM? surely with additions to CCP like logibro etc these are real dust players who get the game, why do we need to select a small unrepresentative group of players to be a focus group? Do i need to spout marketing 101? - a focus group is something that changes each time you change the product...... CCP just keep the eve players happy with the CSM so they can feel important for once in their lives that they get to direct SPACE GAMES, dust i think isn't the same thing. Don't elevate a small group of people into 'hubris' - spread your focus group around, setup virtual groups and test a much wider sample of players Just my 10 cents. You know, I actually agree with you, to a point. I've said it from the start. There's simply no way a 6-12 person group can provide effective feedback on all topics in an unbiased form. From the beginning, I've advocated that CCP instead make the "CPM" made up of several subgroups, much like ISD teams. These teams could be separated into groups like HAV, dropships, weapons, suits, etc. (You get the idea) and then the teams in question within CCP could poll the related player team without having the other teams stick their noses in and waste everyone's time with uninformed (and usually wrong) opinions. The "Main CPM" itself could be created by 'electing' leader/representatives from each team. However.... I do think you're missing the point. The vocal majority of /any/ community on the internet is going to be idiots. This is just a sad truth. No quality feedback, if any can ever really be gathered from these people. The real source of constructive, actionable feedback is the inteligent minority. I will make no claims that myself or my council dudebros are more intelligent than any others in that minority, simply that we're a part of that minority (Except IWS, obv ) People saying "Man, we'll elect people who will do such a better job" are simply looking to vilify without cause. The truth is, no one really knows what we're pushing for, in almost every case where they claim we push only our own agendas. We've love it to death if CCP allowed us to operate with complete transparency, but that is simply not going to happen, because CCP's information overlords need to justify their own jobs and need to micromanage every tidbit of information we release. I have no doubt in my mind that people chosen by the vocal majority without some method of filter on CCP's part would be far worse than what people falsely believe about CPM0. To this end, I have strongly advocated that during the selection process, the only people who should be eligible for election are people that CCP can look into their past history in the dust community and see a strong contribution. (Ironically enough, people like you, Pyrex, who have made countless tutorial videos) Podcasters, forum warriors, twitter bros, etc.... CCP should be able to look at a candidate and say "Yeah, this person is super dedicated, and they will make a good CPM." Being popular is no justification for being on the CPM. The capacity to remain profressional and forward even perspectives that are in direct opposition to your own are vital. This is the level of trust and maturity required to have a strong council. A level of maturity NOT shown by the vast majority of those on the internet. So, before you question the people on the council... I'd like to ask you to question what you actually know about what we've been doing these past six months. Then ask yourself if that's really a reason to have misgivings about the council. If you really sit there and analyze what we have done and what CCP has actually done in response... You would realize that if anything, it is CCP that has dropped the ball. The CPM warned them many times by raising red flags prior to something hitting the live builds (Flaylocks, the AFK "fix", the recent point cap hotfix, numerous exploits, etc.) all of which were pretty much ignored. That said, I will not say that we've been entirely without bias. After all, we're human. Sometimes when a topic of particular interest to one of us comes up, we can get a little over passionate. However, in all cases this has happened... the rest of the council has yanked the leash in a separate channel telling the person to STFU and ease up. You have only my word for this, of course. But rest assured that no single agenda can be pushed without the rest of the council say "Hey, hold on a minute. Look at why this is being said." No you misunderstand, im not suggesting we change the CPM i'm saying we END the CPM It serves no purpose and already we see the sleazy slime bags trying to schmooze themselves into the seats you currently occupy. Enough is enough, it didn't work, you arnt respected in the slightest and frankly CCP themselves admit it didnt work and wasnt supported. No more CPM period.

THE GREY CARDINAL PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 219	Posted - 2013.11.05 15:02:00 - [81] - Quote Every week CCP Logibro posts these dev meeting notes, linking to community feedback/suggestion threads and giving a bit of feedback on the response. Clearly there are people from CCP who read the forums and gather the opinions of the many. In light of this, I have no idea why the CPM is necessary. I think it would make more sense to have a look for those who know the game, who have demonstrated they can give intelligent feedback and to invite these people to some dedicated forum/channel where they could communicate and give feedback to devs without the usual hotheaded and moronic clowns who muck this place up. Even Mr Nova's idea of having role related groups that have an elected rep who could correlate the ideas/feedback from the group would be better than what we have now.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1609	Posted - 2013.11.05 15:08:00 - [82] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: all they will do is push there own agenda for the corp/alliance they are in and for the weapons/dropsuits they use You had 1 job to do and you still havnt done it Ok, all of those accusing us CPM trying to push stuff for our alliance or ourselves over and over again when you have absolutely NO fact nor knowledge backing this up. Well screw you big time. Oh and i dont give a ** whether you think my reaction is appropriate or not At some point, investing your own time in something you're doing in full honesty and being criticized over and over and over again is both preposterous and a tad painfull. Tell me dude(s) (yeah you're not alone) ? do you wake up 1 hour or 2 earlier in the morning to have a meeting with Shangai people before going to work ? Or before sleeping ? Do you spend time writing stuff down and discussing with devs throughout the day making you stay at work that much longer because you left some work aside doing it ? NO. so please try and show some respect for the investment whether or not you like the outcome instead of just blabbing ridiculous accusations like this. And regarding the "they dont know anything about what's needed or what the community wants" coming from 4 month old player. Did you try and dig up the forum for past discussions of us when we were not even CPM yet ? Did you listen or read any of the roundtables\QA sessions at Fanfest to see what is our opinion on various matter regarding the game ? Surely not. As it would already be too much work for you to just check out a few forum thread. And you** want to vote the next CPM ? LOL. Lucky for us you're just a small bunch of loudy idiots and most people know better. Otherwise, my trust in an election system would just collapse to emptyness. Looks like i touched a nerve No one asked you to do this apart from CCP, you could have said no but it gave you a chance to abuse game mechanics 1st Also i dont do the above because im not apart of the CPM you dumbass Give me a vote so i can vote you out, you claim a small minority yet its the majority who dont even know you exist let alone do anything useful and even if it collapses to emptyness then at least it will be an improvement over you since we know it will be useless from the get go and it wont have an ego to fill This reply from you just proves how useless and up your own arse you are, you do nothing, you fix nothing, you advance nothing, you are nothing except a CCP puppet show making you dance around thinking you are important You had 1 job to do and you still havnt done it - You can talk when you have actually finished that 1 job
CEOPyrex CloneA The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 325	Posted - 2013.11.05 15:13:00 - [83] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: all they will do is push there own agenda for the corp/alliance they are in and for the weapons/dropsuits they use You had 1 job to do and you still havnt done it Ok, all of those accusing us CPM trying to push stuff for our alliance or ourselves over and over again when you have absolutely NO fact nor knowledge backing this up. Well screw you big time. Oh and i dont give a ** whether you think my reaction is appropriate or not At some point, investing your own time in something you're doing in full honesty and being criticized over and over and over again is both preposterous and a tad painfull. Tell me dude(s) (yeah you're not alone) ? do you wake up 1 hour or 2 earlier in the morning to have a meeting with Shangai people before going to work ? Or before sleeping ? Do you spend time writing stuff down and discussing with devs throughout the day making you stay at work that much longer because you left some work aside doing it ? NO. so please try and show some respect for the investment whether or not you like the outcome instead of just blabbing ridiculous accusations like this. And regarding the "they dont know anything about what's needed or what the community wants" coming from 4 month old player. Did you try and dig up the forum for past discussions of us when we were not even CPM yet ? Did you listen or read any of the roundtables\QA sessions at Fanfest to see what is our opinion on various matter regarding the game ? Surely not. As it would already be too much work for you to just check out a few forum thread. And you** want to vote the next CPM ? LOL. Lucky for us you're just a small bunch of loudy idiots and most people know better. Otherwise, my trust in an election system would just collapse to emptyness. Looks like i touched a nerve No one asked you to do this apart from CCP, you could have said no but it gave you a chance to abuse game mechanics 1st Also i dont do the above because im not apart of the CPM you dumbass Give me a vote so i can vote you out, you claim a small minority yet its the majority who dont even know you exist let alone do anything useful and even if it collapses to emptyness then at least it will be an improvement over you since we know it will be useless from the get go and it wont have an ego to fill This reply from you just proves how useless and up your own arse you are, you do nothing, you fix nothing, you advance nothing, you are nothing except a CCP puppet show making you dance around thinking you are important You had 1 job to do and you still havnt done it - You can talk when you have actually finished that 1 job Agree with this post, the tone of the CPM dude is frankly unprofessional. Lets just end this 'puppet show' with the CPM all resigning their positions and we can get back to CCP developing a game without this noise and barrier (because that's what it has become now) and everyone wins.
NanoCleric The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 76	Posted - 2013.11.05 15:19:00 - [84] - Quote Edit: Yes i kept typing CSM.. but obviously meant CPM. - Fixed I must say i agree with doing without the CPM.. But allow me to quality my statement. Some of the CPM members seem to think they represent the community, but to represent the community you have to understand the whole community and also engage with them, even if they don't engage with you. Otherwise you only represent the vocal side of the community. Please understand that the majority of communities like these tend to be those who simply log on, play and log off and don't look into the politics or ramblings and complaints and improvements etc.. So they are ignorant of what you are trying to achieve. It also makes it incredibly difficult if not impossible for you to engage with them and gather feedback and widespread opinions and the weighting of those opinons. The simple truth is you do not have the platform to be an effective CPM, you do not have the tools to engage with the playerbase. A forum, your own websites and communities are simple too small a proportion of the player base. An Alternative concept to the need for the cpm: If CCP wish to know what their players want and how their decisions will impact the community, it simply requires their programmers to add an interface into the game to engage with 'every active player'. This would come in the form of the update splash screen we are presented with whenever we log on. This interface would simply ask the player a question to do with whatever issues CCP are tackling and want feedback on, along with some checkboxes or radial buttons with replies. In the form of a mass survey which has far more chance to get replies as the players can just select one, hit submit and get straight into their game. This means no need for going to other websites, checking forums, or having to try and find the CPM members or spamming mailboxes which might get missed. The way things work currently is impractical. I for one don't seek out the coucil to voice my issues, and sure i have a fair few issues and insights into the game which i'm sure CCP would be interested to know, especially as i program games for a living too.. I'm also positive there are many other gamers out there with opinions and insight and suggestions which would be extremely valuable to CCP, but how many of those do you think can be bothered to go out of their way to find CPM members to speak with them about it? .. Very few across the majority i can assure you. That's called human nature. So.... Without a decent platform of engagement, the CPM only fuel the issues and ideas they themselves have or from the small 'vocal' community. Which may not reflect the thoughts and opinions of the whole playerbase. Despite the CPM's best efforts, of which it sounds like there's been many.. I'm sorry, but you just don't have the tools to manage the task at hand. So i'd want to see more engagement via the game with the community for 'quality assurance' than leaving it to Iron Wolf to assume that his opinion is gospol and he alone can assure the quality of the game... (Sorry but reading his post made me laugh, felt like being back in the school yard listening to the 'head boy'). One last point... If we do end up requiring non-CCP people on a form of council to decide matters. They should not consist of people who deem themselves of great importance. Leaders, people in power positions, people who can sway the masses... these are the worst possible choices that can be made. I never ever give positions of importance to people who 'want them' As they always have an ulterior motive or they can't handle the position and abuse their power and have delusions of granduar. The best people for tasks like this are those who have a lot of knowlegde but no ego that is thrown around. People who actually seek the position, but help out people of their own accord. If those people can be coaxed to help in their own capacity and are given the right means of engaging with the 'whole' community, then things like this can work. However... as it is at the moment.. we're better off without it.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1181	Posted - 2013.11.05 15:55:00 - [85] - Quote Definitely disagree with Pyrex re obsoleteing the CPM. In developing these social-based sandboxgames, the CSM/CPM are just as valuable to CCP as they are to the playerbase. This is not normal game development - that should be obvious to all concerned by now. The value of the CPM becomes more obvious as core mechanics approces a finished state and CCP can start adding content and the EVE/DUST link opens up. If we were just making another generic shooter then i agree that something like the CPM would be needless and wasteful. But DUST is definitely not going down the generic shooter path, current appearances to the contrary. I think we all know this. I feel something like the CPM/CSM will be critical to help guide the evolution of the games in the context of the greater New Eden project - CCP devs are too isolated, the connected systems are to big, the behaviour is too chaotic(i mean that in a technical sense) for the ramifications of design decisions to be predictable. Especially so for devs who spend the bulk of their time making the game as opposed to playing it. The evolution of New Eden needs to be crowdsourced. Something like the CPM and the CSM are reasonably efficient ways to achive that. If these bodies accomplish nothing more than prevent the more bone-headed design decisions from getting in that's enough to justify their existence right there, imo. And the track record from the CSMs is that they've accomplished considerably more than that. Our current CPM is working in a far more challenging enviroment with CCP Shanghai than the CSM ever had to face, imo. And they are focusing on the two primary issues that need to be dealt with before any more progress can be made: communication and the charter. And they are making progress. With a charter in place elections can proceed. All evidence points to the conclusion that the CPM are working for the betterment of DUST. As far as i'm concerned that's the only thing that matters in this arguement.
David Spd Caldari State 86	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:02:00 - [86] - Quote I personally think the concept of CPM is greatin theory, but it has been proven (also by CPM members themselves) tha the execution needs a LOT of work. Can whoever that person is that's trying to brown nose their way into CPM elections please stop? You're just making yourself look like a fool/tool. CCP needs put put more importanceinto listening to the CPM and stop treating the playerbase like infants that need to be taught right and wrong. Vocal minority that ** a brick every time a number is changed are just that, minoity. If CCP makesthis CPM and continues to dismiss their warnings and patronize then there really is no point to the CPM. Get your together CCP...sheesh. --> I'm a closed beta vet; I just don't post often <--** "Other people just complicate my life." ~Solid Snake
Laurent Cazaderon What The French 1996	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:07:00 - [87] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: all they will do is push there own agenda for the corp/alliance they are in and for the weapons/dropsuits they use You had 1 job to do and you still havnt done it Ok, all of those accusing us CPM trying to push stuff for our alliance or ourselves over and over again when you have absolutely NO fact nor knowledge backing this up. Well screw you big time. Oh and i dont give a ** whether you think my reaction is appropriate or not At some point, investing your own time in something you're doing in full honesty and being criticized over and over and over again is both preposterous and a tad painfull. Tell me dude(s) (yeah you're not alone) ? do you wake up 1 hour or 2 earlier in the morning to have a meeting with Shangai people before going to work ? Or before sleeping ? Do you spend time writing stuff down and discussing with devs throughout the day making you stay at work that much longer because you left some work aside doing it ? NO. so please try and show some respect for the investment whether or not you like the outcome instead of just blabbing ridiculous accusations like this. And regarding the "they dont know anything about what's needed or what the community wants" coming from 4 month old player. Did you try and dig up the forum for past discussions of us when we were not even CPM yet ? Did you listen or read any of the roundtables\QA sessions at Fanfest to see what is our opinion on various matter regarding the game ? Surely not. As it would already be too much work for you to just check out a few forum thread. And you** want to vote the next CPM ? LOL. Lucky for us you're just a small bunch of loudy idiots and most people know better. Otherwise, my trust in an election system would just collapse to emptyness. Looks like i touched a nerve No one asked you to do this apart from CCP, you could have said no but it gave you a chance to abuse game mechanics 1st Also i dont do the above because im not apart of the CPM you dumbass Give me a vote so i can vote you out, you claim a small minority yet its the majority who dont even know you exist let alone do anything useful and even if it collapses to emptyness then at least it will be an improvement over you since we know it will be useless from the get go and it wont have an ego to fill This reply from you just proves how useless and up your own arse you are, you do nothing, you fix nothing, you advance nothing, you are nothing except a CCP puppet show making you dance around thinking you are important You had 1 job to do and you still havnt done it - You can talk when you have actually finished that 1 job Yeah you did stroke a nerve. But seems like you're unable to see which one. And what i blame you for. But that doesnt surprise me much actually. Let's make it simple : - Why accuse me\us of having an agenda for ourselves, or abuse game mechanics ? How can you say such thing ? What facts do you have supporting that theory of yours ? Still waiting on hard facts there instead of blunt accusations. I could do the exact same thing and just say you're only harassing me because of that district you lost yesterday against WTFR. That would be just as dumb. - Ego trip ? Again, find one example of me padding my ego, acting almighty or superior or changing any bit of my behavior because of being CPM. You'll find none. - You dont do any of those things i do ? Oh snap, i'm surprised. rhetorical question much ? The only point there was to try and make you grasp that being CPM is not just asking stuff. That if i do it it's because i believe it can lead to good things. If i wanted to take advantage of it just to help me in game, i wouldn't go through such work. Yes i chose to do it. Nobody forced me. But again. not the point. Let's be very clear here one last time. You can think any CPM is useless. You can think i'm bad at it. Fine. But dont come in here shouting that i'm doing this for myself when you have no idea what you're talking about. As for creating an election process. It's still in the works and taking too long to my taste. But turns out the release and development of the game did switch priority a lot from that matter. But you may have known that already if only you had red some of our discussions before coming in here and spilling your poison. Finally, i get impulsive quite easily. As much as i despise you at the moment i'm still gonna apologize for the tone i used. I'm not perfect, never claimed to be. And that's what i keep in mind when discussing anything related to the game with CCP. And yeah it hurts to read that i'm apparently just a major ass that only does CPM for the forum tag and to get stuff for him and his pals. Dont know how you would have react but me, i cant go pass that. This Char i only use on the forum. To contact me : "Cazaderon" in game and on Skype. Et vive la France !
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1610	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:21:00 - [88] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: all they will do is push there own agenda for the corp/alliance they are in and for the weapons/dropsuits they use You had 1 job to do and you still havnt done it Ok, all of those accusing us CPM trying to push stuff for our alliance or ourselves over and over again when you have absolutely NO fact nor knowledge backing this up. Well screw you big time. Oh and i dont give a ** whether you think my reaction is appropriate or not At some point, investing your own time in something you're doing in full honesty and being criticized over and over and over again is both preposterous and a tad painfull. Tell me dude(s) (yeah you're not alone) ? do you wake up 1 hour or 2 earlier in the morning to have a meeting with Shangai people before going to work ? Or before sleeping ? Do you spend time writing stuff down and discussing with devs throughout the day making you stay at work that much longer because you left some work aside doing it ? NO. so please try and show some respect for the investment whether or not you like the outcome instead of just blabbing ridiculous accusations like this. And regarding the "they dont know anything about what's needed or what the community wants" coming from 4 month old player. Did you try and dig up the forum for past discussions of us when we were not even CPM yet ? Did you listen or read any of the roundtables\QA sessions at Fanfest to see what is our opinion on various matter regarding the game ? Surely not. As it would already be too much work for you to just check out a few forum thread. And you** want to vote the next CPM ? LOL. Lucky for us you're just a small bunch of loudy idiots and most people know better. Otherwise, my trust in an election system would just collapse to emptyness. Looks like i touched a nerve No one asked you to do this apart from CCP, you could have said no but it gave you a chance to abuse game mechanics 1st Also i dont do the above because im not apart of the CPM you dumbass Give me a vote so i can vote you out, you claim a small minority yet its the majority who dont even know you exist let alone do anything useful and even if it collapses to emptyness then at least it will be an improvement over you since we know it will be useless from the get go and it wont have an ego to fill This reply from you just proves how useless and up your own arse you are, you do nothing, you fix nothing, you advance nothing, you are nothing except a CCP puppet show making you dance around thinking you are important You had 1 job to do and you still havnt done it - You can talk when you have actually finished that 1 job Yeah you did stroke a nerve. But seems like you're unable to see which one. And what i blame you for. But that doesnt surprise me much actually. Let's make it simple : - Why accuse me\us of having an agenda for ourselves, or abuse game mechanics ? How can you say such thing ? What facts do you have supporting that theory of yours ? Still waiting on hard facts there instead of blunt accusations. I could do the exact same thing and just say you're only harassing me because of that district you lost yesterday against WTFR. That would be just as dumb. - Ego trip ? Again, find one example of me padding my ego, acting almighty or superior or changing any bit of my behavior because of being CPM. You'll find none. - You dont do any of those things i do ? Oh snap, i'm surprised. rhetorical question much ? The only point there was to try and make you grasp that being CPM is not just asking stuff. That if i do it it's because i believe it can lead to good things. If i wanted to take advantage of it just to help me in game, i wouldn't go through such work. Yes i chose to do it. Nobody forced me. But again. not the point. Let's be very clear here one last time. You can think any CPM is useless. You can think i'm bad at it. Fine. But dont come in here shouting that i'm doing this for myself when you have no idea what you're talking about. As for creating an election process. It's still in the works and taking too long to my taste. But turns out the release and development of the game did switch priority a lot from that matter. But you may have known that already if only you had red some of our discussions before coming in here and spilling your poison. Finally, i get impulsive quite easily. As much as i despise you at the moment i'm still gonna apologize for the tone i used. I'm not perfect, never claimed to be. And that's what i keep in mind when discussing anything related to the game with CCP. And yeah it hurts to read that i'm apparently just a major ass that only does CPM for the forum tag and to get stuff for him and his pals. Dont know how you would have react but me, i cant go pass that. CRONOS war, Betamax also WTF abused in game mechanics for teamkilling claiming metagame, locking districts also metagame by CPM members but cheating for non CPM members, noticed how the CPM corps and alliance started it all is that because they new about it 1st and took advantage? yes it is Ego trip by several members thinking they are a special snowflake, jenza is prob the worst for this, IWS is a close second It is the point, i cant do it im not CPM so why list pointless stuff that even if you do it, it doesnt matter anyways because CCP doesnt listen loldistrict with 1 frame a second in the match, you hold onto that win seems like you need it If you dispise me or not idgaf i just think the CPM is a waste of time and then new CMs seem to do more than the CPM has ever done in a short space of time
CEOPyrex CloneA The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 331	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:27:00 - [89] - Quote Pretty disappointed with some of the attitudes being shown here by the CPM, you are being massively over protective of what is essentially a CCP lack of interest in your office. Given the way the CPM are acting, why on earth would a community member come to any of you when you show such emotion and frustration to the entire process yourselves. The only thing to do is resign to show CCP that its not accepted by you either.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1181	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:50:00 - [90] - Quote CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: Pretty disappointed with some of the attitudes being shown here by the CPM, you are being massively over protective of what is essentially a CCP lack of interest in your office. Given the way the CPM are acting, why on earth would a community member come to any of you when you show such emotion and frustration to the entire process yourselves. The only thing to do is resign to show CCP that its not accepted by you either. I see the outcome of a mass resignation being that we will have to reboot the entire process from scratch in the future: more wasted time and resources, only to get to where we are right now, and in all liklihood with less dedicated representatives. It's easy to point fingers at CCP, it's easy to point fingers at the CPM. But i'm thinking that this whole CPM adventure has occured at a 'very ineresting' time for CCP Sahnghai. It is premature to burn it all down now. We can smash and murder later. You Pyrex can build the Guillotines. Now that will be a helluva party, n'est pas?

Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 189	Posted - 2013.11.05 17:12:00 - [91] - Quote Lol holy crap this does actually sound like elitist bs, I agree with pyrex in that we should stop this whole thing before it starts, I have no problem with the dust community having an involvement in developing the game but who the hell are we electing? You would think that since there's only a few thousand people on the game that we would all know each other by now but I've still never heard of some of these representatives. The representative system of government is and always has been regarded as a necessary evil, at least in america, electing a few people to represent the many is simply (potentially) a more efficient process than getting nationwide consensus because there's just too damn many people, and many of the people in office actually disregard the opinions of the people they claim to represent because they think that the public is a bunch of idiots who need leadership from someone more capable, which could probably be the definition of elitist. The problem is the positions that these people hold here are more similar to careers than public services, many of the people in office are corrupt because they're paid more than most americans to do their jobs and they're paid by benefactors and other elitists to advocate their selfish goals. No I don't think CPMs are getting paid to do their jobs but it's still giving a small group of people power and direct input on how the game progresses. We on dust simply don't need representation by a few players in the community because there aren't even that many people playing. If you can get more sides and opinions shared from a wider group of people (and you definitely can) then do it, don't give a title to a few people to make everyone think their voice is more important because it's not and you don't have to.

CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 3253	Posted - 2013.11.05 17:33:00 - [92] - Quote I'm going to start off with a quick statement: The CPM has been nothing short of absolutely stellar. The times we have been able to use them as the resource that they were supposed to be has resulted in amazing feedback and progress. To everyone that believes that they have been doing very little, I would beg to differ and I would believe it completely disingenuous to call them useless. They have made themselves available at nearly any time we ask, ready to give instant feedback on any and everything. Yes it's behind closed doors at the moment, but that's the NDA - it's a double edged sword. While the NDA prevents the CPM from telling the wider community a large number of things, what it does do is allow us to run raw ideas and sanity check crazy proposals without fear of the larger community taking it the wrong way. A number of truly ridiculous ideas have made it to the cutting room floor with the help of the CPM, and some excellent ideas have been proposed by them, been expanded by the development teams and actually borne fruit. There is absolutely no way that many of the details that we have shared with them so early would be disseminated among the wider public, as the ideas are too raw and unrefined to be ready for mass feedback. Doing so would result is a vast sea of half-built responses that would inundate the development teams, drowning out the well planned responses in a swarm of half-baked ideas due to a lack of a solid base for people to give feedback on. The CPM is meant to be an advocacy council taking issues they see from the player base and raising them with us. They're also an amazing sanity check for our plans. While many of you can't see the impact they're making, trust me when I say that while we haven't always been giving them the support they deserve, they have been putting in mountains of work. But they do not dictate development. They act merely in an advisory capacity, and the final call will always remain in CCPGÇÖs hands. Infact, I have seen instances where CPM members have stated that their preferred play styles need to be nerfed for the good of the game. The reaction that many of you are having right now is exactly the same reaction EVE players had when the CSM was first formed. Over many years they have had the ability to prove themselves as CCP has grown to include them as part of the development process. The CPM wonGÇÖt integrate overnight, but we do need to put more work into it. We can make it work, and we are committed to making it work. CCP Logibro // EVE Universe Community Team // Distributor of Nanites // Patron Saint of Logistics

Laurent Cazaderon What The French 1997	Posted - 2013.11.05 17:41:00 - [93] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: CRONOS war, Betamax also WTF abused in game mechanics for teamkilling claiming metagame, locking districts also metagame by CPM members but cheating for non CPM members, noticed how the CPM corps and alliance started it all is that because they new about it 1st and took advantage? yes it is Ego trip by several members thinking they are a special snowflake, jenza is prob the worst for this, IWS is a close second It is the point, i cant do it im not CPM so why list pointless stuff that even if you do it, it doesnt matter anyways because CCP doesnt listen loldistrict with 1 frame a second in the match, you hold onto that win seems like you need it If you dispise me or not idgaf i just think the CPM is a waste of time and then new CMs seem to do more than the CPM has ever done in a short space of time Paranoid much dude ? I never did awox and always told even my alliance mates it was an ugly thing to do.. Check your intel first. Locking districts ? I wont go on agressive mode but some times it's a good idea to look around you before criticizing the people facing you... And at the time i was really involved in PC, we NEVER locked a district. there's a reason we got crushed and wiped out by TP and SyN. Again, check your intel. And please do find one topic where a CPM says it's normal that CPM can do some things and regular members not. If i ever said such thing, i'll resign instantly. About the beginning of PC now. Molden heath being the starting location was known by every corporation out there. We just decided to go all in after DT which any alliance could have done. Also that could only be about 2 CPMs.... so here's for you making assumptions about everyone when even your accusation dont fit half the CPM members. Now on ego trip. i really dont share your feeling about the two you mention. And i'm not mentionned and neither are most CPM, so here's again for generalizing. Quote: loldistrict with 1 frame a second in the match, you hold onto that win seems like you need it Hmmm. Why do you justify yourself ? I was just taking this as an example to show how idiotic it was of you to just assume i or any other CPM does this for selfish reasons. The way i could stupidly assume that you're motivated only by frustration over a loss and that you actually have no input to make on the CPM, be it the structure itself. And again, i'm not. Call me na+»ve but i tend to think everyone has interesting things to say to some degree. Quote: If you dispise me or not idgaf i just think the CPM is a waste of time and then new CMs seem to do more than the CPM has ever done in a short space of time At least i'm being honest in everythin i say here. you dont have half the guts to acknowledge you said dumb, or at least clumsy, things. Now, as i said 3 times before, the debate on whether or not a CPM is usefull is something i'm willing to discuss. But again, i've been saying that all day. Finally. Come and talk to me whenever you want in game. No matter what has been said or in game fights i'm never against actual discussions as long as it's not plain insulting me. And you can tell me in details everything you feel isnt ok with a CPM structure. and i can tell you everything you wanna know about how it goes. Same goes for you Pyrex. Quote: Pretty disappointed with some of the attitudes being shown here by the CPM, you are being massively over protective of what is essentially a CCP lack of interest in your office. Given the way the CPM are acting, why on earth would a community member come to any of you when you show such emotion and frustration to the entire process yourselves. The only thing to do is resign to show CCP that its not accepted by you either. Attitude is one thing. Not everyone can get along there or the world would be a magical place. As for being protective of the CPM structure, i am because i find it refreshing coming from a dev. Doesnt matter the name or who is in it. When i started EVE it 's one of the things i thought made the game so special. Again, dont mistake emotion regarding accusations, and emotions regarding the process. Many times the CPM itself has been criticized and i never got so pissed about those because it's nothing personnal. Also, even two month ago, i would have agreed with you on many things. now, i'm sensing a change coming from the new EP being in place. So yeah, i'm gonna defend it for as long as i feel those changes are progressing. And if it sinks again into a feeling of uselessness. Well i'll drift away. like i did 2 month ago. In the end. All i want is dust to succeed. Idgaf (will remember that one) about the rest. PEACE This Char i only use on the forum. To contact me : "Cazaderon" in game and on Skype. Et vive la France !
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1181	Posted - 2013.11.05 17:42:00 - [94] - Quote Logibro, it is great to see a statement like this re the CPM. Those peeps have been taking a lot of heat and i was getting the feeling that CCP had hung them out to dry in the cold, uncaring interstellar winds.
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 825	Posted - 2013.11.05 17:57:00 - [95] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: I'm going to start off with a quick statement: The CPM has been nothing short of absolutely stellar. The times we have been able to use them as the resource that they were supposed to be has resulted in amazing feedback and progress. To everyone that believes that they have been doing very little, I would beg to differ and I would believe it completely disingenuous to call them useless. They have made themselves available at nearly any time we ask, ready to give instant feedback on any and everything. Yes it's behind closed doors at the moment, but that's the NDA - it's a double edged sword. While the NDA prevents the CPM from telling the wider community a large number of things, what it does do is allow us to run raw ideas and sanity check crazy proposals without fear of the larger community taking it the wrong way. A number of truly ridiculous ideas have made it to the cutting room floor with the help of the CPM, and some excellent ideas have been proposed by them, been expanded by the development teams and actually borne fruit. There is absolutely no way that many of the details that we have shared with them so early would be disseminated among the wider public, as the ideas are too raw and unrefined to be ready for mass feedback. Doing so would result is a vast sea of half-built responses that would inundate the development teams, drowning out the well planned responses in a swarm of half-baked ideas due to a lack of a solid base for people to give feedback on. The CPM is meant to be an advocacy council taking issues they see from the player base and raising them with us. They're also an amazing sanity check for our plans. While many of you can't see the impact they're making, trust me when I say that while we haven't always been giving them the support they deserve, they have been putting in mountains of work. But they do not dictate development. They act merely in an advisory capacity, and the final call will always remain in CCPGÇÖs hands. Infact, I have seen instances where CPM members have stated that their preferred play styles need to be nerfed for the good of the game. The reaction that many of you are having right now is exactly the same reaction EVE players had when the CSM was first formed. Over many years they have had the ability to prove themselves as CCP has grown to include them as part of the development process. The CPM wonGÇÖt integrate overnight, but we do need to put more work into it. We can make it work, and we are committed to making it work. Funny you say this when there are a few members that have the same number of kills for five months now..... How can you represent a game you don't even play consistently. The CPM seems to be clueless about the whereabouts of current combat and the poor state it is in. You would swear they are in the battle academy still based upon a lot of their statements.
Eddie Rio The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 57	Posted - 2013.11.05 18:03:00 - [96] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: I'm going to start off with a quick statement: The CPM has been nothing short of absolutely stellar. The times we have been able to use them as the resource that they were supposed to be has resulted in amazing feedback and progress. To everyone that believes that they have been doing very little, I would beg to differ and I would believe it completely disingenuous to call them useless. They have made themselves available at nearly any time we ask, ready to give instant feedback on any and everything. Yes it's behind closed doors at the moment, but that's the NDA - it's a double edged sword. While the NDA prevents the CPM from telling the wider community a large number of things, what it does do is allow us to run raw ideas and sanity check crazy proposals without fear of the larger community taking it the wrong way. A number of truly ridiculous ideas have made it to the cutting room floor with the help of the CPM, and some excellent ideas have been proposed by them, been expanded by the development teams and actually borne fruit. There is absolutely no way that many of the details that we have shared with them so early would be disseminated among the wider public, as the ideas are too raw and unrefined to be ready for mass feedback. Doing so would result is a vast sea of half-built responses that would inundate the development teams, drowning out the well planned responses in a swarm of half-baked ideas due to a lack of a solid base for people to give feedback on. The CPM is meant to be an advocacy council taking issues they see from the player base and raising them with us. They're also an amazing sanity check for our plans. While many of you can't see the impact they're making, trust me when I say that while we haven't always been giving them the support they deserve, they have been putting in mountains of work. But they do not dictate development. They act merely in an advisory capacity, and the final call will always remain in CCPGÇÖs hands. Infact, I have seen instances where CPM members have stated that their preferred play styles need to be nerfed for the good of the game. The reaction that many of you are having right now is exactly the same reaction EVE players had when the CSM was first formed. Over many years they have had the ability to prove themselves as CCP has grown to include them as part of the development process. The CPM wonGÇÖt integrate overnight, but we do need to put more work into it. We can make it work, and we are committed to making it work. this is a great response and all very true, I think before the subject got heated and insults where being flung about. the original point people wanted was: would it not be better to have employees by CCP to do this role, rather than people who run alliance or could benefit from this position..
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1615	Posted - 2013.11.05 18:06:00 - [97] - Quote Well i was in the CRONOS war and i saw it unfold and what CPM members were doing and ive told you but you dont like it and come out with crap, same with other stuff that i have seen on forums or in game actions and you were the 1st to bring up a district i just replied, im honest and once again you come out with more crap CPM is biased, they abused several game mechanics for there own corp/alliance, they support there own playstyles or even will go as so far to criticize other playstyles such as that fantastic thread from IWS not wanting 'proto tanks' for pathetic reasons yet wont agree to removal of proto AV just one example, you basically disappeared for months, same with jenza after she looted the corp, nova is who, kain is kain and the other 1 i dont even know, that EVE player who didnt do anything for FW either Sure we can replace them and prob end up with another CPM0 with no real input on anything Effectively all you are doing here is just getting defensive over CPM because you are in it and dont want to lose your place Your place tho is at the end of several pieces of string where you dance for your puppet masters while having no real input Logibro has put in his piece but infact logibro has been more useful than the entire CPM put together and he hasnt been around for 6months in his role Frankly im not going to repy to you anymore caz since im going round in circles
Brush Master HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 955	Posted - 2013.11.05 18:41:00 - [98] - Quote First off, a thank you to CPM0 for sticking in there. I mostly only get to chat with Hans, Nova and Kane as they are in many of my skype channels and play a couple games from time to time. I do get to see these three interacting with a couple dozen players and have engaged them on issues with the groups on several occasions. We do not always agree on the issues but they do listen and react to the discussion on hand. My biggest issue at hand is that we can discuss issues with CPM but we do not know if the community agrees with one side or the other. With no clear platforms for straight up voting on issues, we are at the mercy of the group to decide our best interest, right or wrong we don't know till its been done. When I just read Logibro's last statement it read along the lines of something I would see from the NSA on its leaks, trust us, we knows what's best. Only an open platform where we can see discussion will ever deter this feeling of miss trust. They could be this stellar group of people that work hard for free and have our best interest but if we never know of their actions, left in the dark, people assume the worst. I think the community can handle your wild ideas if these are presented as wild ideas and very clear they are nothing more than dreams that could. Thanks for reading. GÇá Havok Core - Closed Beta Corp - Accepting Applications Here GÇá CEO // [email protected]
DeeJay One Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 108	Posted - 2013.11.05 18:45:00 - [99] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: CRONOS war, Betamax also WTF abused in game mechanics for teamkilling claiming metagame, locking districts also metagame by CPM members but cheating for non CPM members, noticed how the CPM corps and alliance started it all is that because they new about it 1st and took advantage? yes it is You're new to EVE, aren't you? Go read on on the process of disbanding Band of Brothers. Also all the info was publicly available and discussed prior to the release and following land grab on public IRC and not only by CRONOS, and oh BTW - do you see Betamax on Dust lately? No? Tell me again how the CPM members are taking advantage of being CPM now... Sorry, I had to say this, because with every month passing the accusations are getting weirder...
DeeJay One Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 108	Posted - 2013.11.05 18:49:00 - [100] - Quote Brush Master wrote: My biggest issue at hand is that we can discuss issues with CPM but we do not know if the community agrees with one side or the other. With no clear platforms for straight up voting on issues, we are at the mercy of the group to decide our best interest, right or wrong we don't know till its been done. It's hard to do such a platform as it would be easily abused and would require the same safeguards in place as voting for the CPM. When we finally get to CSM1 maybe we can borrow those safeguards from CCP ;)

Brush Master HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 955	Posted - 2013.11.05 19:02:00 - [101] - Quote DeeJay One wrote: Brush Master wrote: My biggest issue at hand is that we can discuss issues with CPM but we do not know if the community agrees with one side or the other. With no clear platforms for straight up voting on issues, we are at the mercy of the group to decide our best interest, right or wrong we don't know till its been done. It's hard to do such a platform as it would be easily abused and would require the same safeguards in place as voting for the CPM. When we finally get to CSM1 maybe we can borrow those safeguards from CCP ;) This is true with PSN being free, it runs into the same issue as the passive free booster being free, people just make multiple accounts. You would have to come up with something complex to reduce the ability for cheaters to abuse, things like play time, character age, etc. Either way it could just be 1/3 of the picture that makes the decision or sways CCP to go a certain way. These forums are such a horrid way to determine voting and what features people want. GÇá Havok Core - Closed Beta Corp - Accepting Applications Here GÇá CEO // [email protected]
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 215	Posted - 2013.11.05 19:16:00 - [102] - Quote Open question for the CPM / CCP Devs... Would you be willing to come to Corp / Alliance Private Chat Channels to have town hall meetings with our members? Let me elaborate: 1) Have one day a week or every other week that a Corp or Alliance can sign up wtih and you join our closed channel or we come to one you set up and we have a brief update on CPM / CCP actions and ellicit feedback and questions from the community writ large. 2) The Corp leadership is responsible for making sure it's not a ptich fork and torches session...just conversation and information exchange from the community to their appointed / elected reps and maybe the guest star Dev. If you are willing to take on this type fo engagement I would like to sign up OSG Planetary Operations to be your test case to see if this could be a positive practice for the CCP, CPM, and the community. If not, then please let us know why you don't think that's feasible. Thanks for your work...most of us wouldn't be on these forums if we didn't have a game that we weren't invested in and that is a credit to both CCP and CPM. - jay
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 9944	Posted - 2013.11.05 19:25:00 - [103] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Open question for the CPM / CCP Devs... Would you be willing to come to Corp / Alliance Private Chat Channels to have town hall meetings with our members? Let me elaborate: 1) Have one day a week or every other week that a Corp or Alliance can sign up wtih and you join our closed channel or we come to one you set up and we have a brief updated on CPM / CCP actions and ellicit feedback and questions from the community writ large. 2) The Corp leadership is responsible for making sure it's not a ptich fork and torches session...just conversation and information exchange from the community to their appointed / elected reps and maybe the guest star Dev. If you are willing to take on this type fo engagement I would like to sign up OSG Planetary Operations to be your test case to see if this could be a positive practice for the CCP, CPM, and the community. If not, then please let us know why you don't think that's feasible. Thanks for your work...most of us wouldn't be on these forums if we didn't have a game that we weren't invested in and that is a credit to both CCP and CPM. - jay Im available large amounts of the day, if not my dust 514 character my eve character can be made available much more frequently as its right next to my homework. Our inboxes, skypes, and twitters are publicly available and if want a response that is you want to take to public make sure to entitle it as such and we will work around it. So if you guys want to ask your corps and your alliances questions for the cpm and then mail it in to us we be more than happy to work with that and at that method should be netting most of the CPM responses onto it. We have had several town hall like meetings before the CPM AMA and the CPM QnA which we are having a slight difficulty in getting repeats of due to the large time zone differences. I mean optimally to get all the CPM would to pick the same time slot CCP uses for most of the meetings and frankly there is hardly anyone on at those times. Inversely the most you can easily get is a third of the CPM up at a time during the more popular times. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier Specialist Current Theme \\= Advanced Plasma Rifle =// Unlocked
Laurent Cazaderon What The French 1998	Posted - 2013.11.05 19:45:00 - [104] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: [b]Well i was in the CRONOS war and i saw it unfold and what CPM members were doing and ive told you but you dont like it and come out with crap, same with other stuff that i have seen on forums or in game actions and you were the 1st to bring up a district i just replied, im honest and once again you come out with more crap CPM is biased, they abused several game mechanics for there own corp/alliance, they support there own playstyles or even will go as so far to criticize other playstyles such as that fantastic thread from IWS not wanting 'proto tanks' for pathetic reasons yet wont agree to removal of proto AV just one example, you basically disappeared for months, same with jenza after she looted the corp, nova is who, kain is kain and the other 1 i dont even know, that EVE player who didnt do anything for FW either [b] Again, you're saying exactly the same thing as before with nothing actually factual or worth anything. Enjoy your paranoia. This Char i only use on the forum. To contact me : "Cazaderon" in game and on Skype. Et vive la France !
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 3629	Posted - 2013.11.05 19:46:00 - [105] - Quote Noticed a lot of toxicity in this thread and I'd like to chime in as a neutral party between the two. Thing is, we do need a CPM because when you have thousands of players there are going to be a lot of different voices and not all of them are civil. When you can have six people in a room that, at least loosely correlates to those views than it gets easier to understand and easier to filter out all the garbage you usually see on the forums where people are screaming at one another alphanumerically because of the fact that they disagreed, not that they had something useful to bring up. The CPM's role in all this isn't well voiced or communicated and you have to really dig down deep to get the true meaning behind it all because on the surface it does look like something fitting of controversy but it's important to realize that these guys were offered the position(s) because they had gone out of their way to help the community beforehand. A community based website with an IRC embed, a wiki, previous experience with EVE Online and the CSM... There's a bunch of reasons that these guys were selected and it wasn't because they were part of some big time player organization, though that does help because than you can understand the problems of these organized player groups which is what this game thrives on. It's very important to note that when you do something for the community, hearing the community's voice and relaying it usually comes hand-in-hand with that. It's also important to remember that the players aren't the only ones who are stressed out here. CCP has been working very hard to get this game right and even though there's been a few teeter-totter moments, they've done a good job since Uprising first released. The CPM on the other hand probably has the most stressful job out of everyone solely because they're the middle man and lately they've been getting the **** end of the stick from both sides. This was made evidence by Nova Knife's post here and the general atmosphere that the community brings forth to them, with no more important an example than this thread. Were the CPM unprofessional in how they handled this situation? Absolutely, but you have to put yourself in their shoes. It's like being the poor waitress who brought an order to a customer and the cook was theone who made the honest mistake - eventually that waitress is going to snap off because, let's face it, no-one enjoys having to put a smile on while you're being yelled at. This isn't to say that CCP is playing the cook here, but there's no reason you should gang up on someone that doesn't deserve it and not expect them to lash back after a while. Suffice to say what this became is a giant pile of bullshit on both sides. The community incited an argument and got a response, then turned around and chastised them for that response, using it as ammunition against them. Now everyone is forgetting the original issue that started it all, attacking the other side for the sake of it. I think everyone needs to take a step back, consider WHY they're fighting so hard and get to the bottom of what the real issue is. Because if it's solely over whether or not we need a CPM, that's a really stupid reason for the community and the CPM to get into a brawl. ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
Laurent Cazaderon What The French 1998	Posted - 2013.11.05 19:51:00 - [106] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Noticed a lot of toxicity in this thread and I'd like to chime in as a neutral party between the two. Thing is, we do need a CPM because when you have thousands of players there are going to be a lot of different voices and not all of them are civil. When you can have six people in a room that, at least loosely correlates to those views than it gets easier to understand and easier to filter out all the garbage you usually see on the forums where people are screaming at one another alphanumerically because of the fact that they disagreed, not that they had something useful to bring up. Which is, unfortunately, exactly what seems to be happening here. The CPM's role in all this isn't well voiced or communicated and you have to really dig down deep to get the true meaning behind it all because on the surface it does look like something fitting of controversy but it's important to realize that these guys were offered the position(s) because they had gone out of their way to help the community beforehand. A community based website with an IRC embed, a wiki, previous experience with EVE Online and the CSM... There's a bunch of reasons that these guys were selected and it wasn't because they were part of some big time player organization, though that does help because than you can understand the problems of these organized player groups which is what this game thrives on. It's very important to note that when you do something for the community, hearing the community's voice and relaying it usually comes hand-in-hand with that. It's also important to remember that the players aren't the only ones who are stressed out here. CCP has been working very hard to get this game right and even though there's been a few teeter-totter moments, they've done a good job since Uprising first released. The CPM on the other hand probably has the most stressful job out of everyone solely because they're the middle man and lately they've been getting the **** end of the stick from both sides. This was made evidence by Nova Knife's post here and the general atmosphere that the community brings forth to them, with no more important an example than this thread. Were the CPM unprofessional in how they handled this situation? Absolutely, but you have to put yourself in their shoes. It's like being the poor waitress who brought an order to a customer and the cook was theone who made the honest mistake - eventually that waitress is going to snap off because, let's face it, no-one enjoys having to put a smile on while you're being yelled at. This isn't to say that CCP is playing the cook here, but there's no reason you should gang up on someone that doesn't deserve it and not expect them to lash back after a while. Suffice to say what this became is a giant pile of bullshit on both sides. The community incited an argument and got a response, then turned around and chastised them for that response, using it as ammunition against them. Now everyone is forgetting the original issue that started it all, attacking the other side for the sake of it. I think everyone needs to take a step back, consider WHY they're fighting so hard and get to the bottom of what the real issue is. Because if it's solely over whether or not we need a CPM, that's a really stupid reason for the community and the CPM to get into a brawl. But dude. Don't you know we're the ones who ruined CPM cause we want stuff for us and our friends ? Are you that blind ? More seriously. It's a nice metaphore. You should have add the cook had to change a big part of its kitchen hardware after receiving a bad review. So the waitress didnt have much to bring to the tables or back to the cook. This Char i only use on the forum. To contact me : "Cazaderon" in game and on Skype. Et vive la France !
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 215	Posted - 2013.11.05 19:52:00 - [107] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Open question for the CPM / CCP Devs... Would you be willing to come to Corp / Alliance Private Chat Channels to have town hall meetings with our members? Let me elaborate: 1) Have one day a week or every other week that a Corp or Alliance can sign up wtih and you join our closed channel or we come to one you set up and we have a brief updated on CPM / CCP actions and ellicit feedback and questions from the community writ large. 2) The Corp leadership is responsible for making sure it's not a ptich fork and torches session...just conversation and information exchange from the community to their appointed / elected reps and maybe the guest star Dev. If you are willing to take on this type fo engagement I would like to sign up OSG Planetary Operations to be your test case to see if this could be a positive practice for the CCP, CPM, and the community. If not, then please let us know why you don't think that's feasible. Thanks for your work...most of us wouldn't be on these forums if we didn't have a game that we weren't invested in and that is a credit to both CCP and CPM. - jay Im available large amounts of the day, if not my dust 514 character my eve character can be made available much more frequently as its right next to my homework. Our inboxes, skypes, and twitters are publicly available and if want a response that is you want to take to public make sure to entitle it as such and we will work around it. So if you guys want to ask your corps and your alliances questions for the cpm and then mail it in to us we be more than happy to work with that and at that method should be netting most of the CPM responses onto it. We have had several town hall like meetings before the CPM AMA and the CPM QnA which we are having a slight difficulty in getting repeats of due to the large time zone differences. I mean optimally to get all the CPM would to pick the same time slot CCP uses for most of the meetings and frankly there is hardly anyone on at those times. Inversely the most you can easily get is a third of the CPM up at a time during the more popular times. Thanks for the prompt response. I probably should have clarified...I know it's not practical to get the whole CPM togther. I was thinking along the lines of one or two that could essentially represent the CPM as a whole. Tell you what, I'll try to compile some key questions and get them sent over to you and would appreciate your response, if possible we work a window out where you can pop in with us and run some matches and chat with us...you game? I appreciate the position you guys are in and the work you do. It's honestly difficult for me to "see" your work or the significance of interaction you may have with CCP but i've been actively trying to educate myself for the last month or so on it.
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 3629	Posted - 2013.11.05 19:54:00 - [108] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Noticed a lot of toxicity in this thread and I'd like to chime in as a neutral party between the two. Thing is, we do need a CPM because when you have thousands of players there are going to be a lot of different voices and not all of them are civil. When you can have six people in a room that, at least loosely correlates to those views than it gets easier to understand and easier to filter out all the garbage you usually see on the forums where people are screaming at one another alphanumerically because of the fact that they disagreed, not that they had something useful to bring up. Which is, unfortunately, exactly what seems to be happening here. The CPM's role in all this isn't well voiced or communicated and you have to really dig down deep to get the true meaning behind it all because on the surface it does look like something fitting of controversy but it's important to realize that these guys were offered the position(s) because they had gone out of their way to help the community beforehand. A community based website with an IRC embed, a wiki, previous experience with EVE Online and the CSM... There's a bunch of reasons that these guys were selected and it wasn't because they were part of some big time player organization, though that does help because than you can understand the problems of these organized player groups which is what this game thrives on. It's very important to note that when you do something for the community, hearing the community's voice and relaying it usually comes hand-in-hand with that. It's also important to remember that the players aren't the only ones who are stressed out here. CCP has been working very hard to get this game right and even though there's been a few teeter-totter moments, they've done a good job since Uprising first released. The CPM on the other hand probably has the most stressful job out of everyone solely because they're the middle man and lately they've been getting the **** end of the stick from both sides. This was made evidence by Nova Knife's post here and the general atmosphere that the community brings forth to them, with no more important an example than this thread. Were the CPM unprofessional in how they handled this situation? Absolutely, but you have to put yourself in their shoes. It's like being the poor waitress who brought an order to a customer and the cook was theone who made the honest mistake - eventually that waitress is going to snap off because, let's face it, no-one enjoys having to put a smile on while you're being yelled at. This isn't to say that CCP is playing the cook here, but there's no reason you should gang up on someone that doesn't deserve it and not expect them to lash back after a while. Suffice to say what this became is a giant pile of bullshit on both sides. The community incited an argument and got a response, then turned around and chastised them for that response, using it as ammunition against them. Now everyone is forgetting the original issue that started it all, attacking the other side for the sake of it. I think everyone needs to take a step back, consider WHY they're fighting so hard and get to the bottom of what the real issue is. Because if it's solely over whether or not we need a CPM, that's a really stupid reason for the community and the CPM to get into a brawl. But dude. Don't you know we're the ones who ruined CPM cause we want stuff for us and our friends ? Are you that blind ? More seriously. It's a nice metaphore. You should have add the cook had to change a big part of its kitchen hardware after receiving a bad review. So the waitress didnt have much to bring to the tables or back to the cook. Let's try to reduce the hostility on both sides just a tad, yeah? Just eeeaaaasssseeee back because both sides are getting really hostile right now over something very silly and just tossing ammunition to one another while they're shooting! That's never good for a war ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
Starfire Revo DUST University Ivy League 148	Posted - 2013.11.05 20:26:00 - [109] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Open question for the CPM / CCP Devs... Would you be willing to come to Corp / Alliance Private Chat Channels to have town hall meetings with our members? Let me elaborate: 1) Have one day a week or every other week that a Corp or Alliance can sign up wtih and you join our closed channel or we come to one you set up and we have a brief update on CPM / CCP actions and ellicit feedback and questions from the community writ large. I ran a live Q&A with Hans and Kane a while back. I'd be up for doing another if people are interested. I make videos of EVE and Dust http://www.youtube.com/mrgimbleb I write about EVE and Dust http://mrgimbleb.blogspot.com
NanoCleric The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 80	Posted - 2013.11.05 20:42:00 - [110] - Quote Starfire Revo wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Open question for the CPM / CCP Devs... Would you be willing to come to Corp / Alliance Private Chat Channels to have town hall meetings with our members? Let me elaborate: 1) Have one day a week or every other week that a Corp or Alliance can sign up wtih and you join our closed channel or we come to one you set up and we have a brief update on CPM / CCP actions and ellicit feedback and questions from the community writ large. I ran a live Q&A with Hans and Kane a while back. I'd be up for doing another if people are interested. I think things like this are great as they do engage with the community.. however.. this still only caters for the 'vocal' part of the community. What about all those casual gamers who don't have time to read the forums much and miss things like this, what about all the multitudes of people that the CPM members simply would not have the real life time to do face to face sessions like this, what about the new players who have no idea who these CPM members are, what about those who do not have PC's (and there's many many of them), what about the 'majority' of active gamers. Again this is only catering to the minority. Therefore it only addresses issues and ideas of the minority which shapes the game for the minority and not the majority. Sure, some things might be spot on that they do, and the majority might agree.. but at present it seems that people only get a say if they seek out the CPM.. and most people will not do that, it's just human nature and to most people, this is 'just a game'. That however does not mean they should be ignored. This is why i say they do not have the tools to be able to engage with the masses, and therefore cannot have a clear perspective of what the majority want to see. I mentioned in my previous post about interfaces and surveys delivered on the PS3, this could be coded to extract questions from a document which the CPM could even submit and maintain to get as much feedback as they can. There are means and ways for CCP to integrate this, though i still believe it should ideally fall to a CCP Staff member to manage such a task as what appears on the screen CCP are responsible for. The key point is the 'whole' community needs to be engaged by the representative without requiring the users to check forums, websites, go on IRC sessions etc... Humans are naturally lazy, and those who don't succumb to the lazyness don't always have the time to persue things like this. So the representatives should have the responsibility to maximize the engagement with the playerbase so they have a broader perspective of the majority opinions. Honestly.. if you can't represent the whole community, then your only serving yourselves. I mean this sentence in a very general way and would apply it to 'any' representation of any community in any form, and yourselves applys to the individual along with (friends and family politics). So without representing a whole community.. there's little point in it. At the end of the day, noone likes misrepresentation, and without engagement, that's what happens.

CEOPyrex CloneA The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 339	Posted - 2013.11.05 20:52:00 - [111] - Quote I would like to reiterate my point, the CPM has not worked and CCP themselves have stated thus at the start of this thread. Q&As, alliance chats and the like are not the issue, its a puppet show of a group of people who are both powerless and universally disregarded therefore why persist in trying to make this work? Calling time on it right now before it perpetuates and becomes like the CSM where people are turning up with an agenda of their own to benefit the few is a massive risk to the commercial success of this game. Already the community is polarised around this topic and the attitudes shown are frankly unprofessional and disrespectful of the granted position that was given. What makes it worse is the frankly shameful way the CPM are digging their fingernails into the door frame as the community collectively calls for this to end. CCP your marketing gimmick is backfiring, perhaps its time to act before this becomes the news story......
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 3631	Posted - 2013.11.05 20:56:00 - [112] - Quote NanoCleric wrote: What about all those casual gamers who don't have time to read the forums much and miss things like this, what about all the multitudes of people that the CPM members simply would not have the real life time to do face to face sessions like this, what about the new players who have no idea who these CPM members are, what about those who do not have PC's (and there's many many of them), what about the 'majority' of active gamers. That's why it's important to communicate with some of these larger player organizations, just as it is in Eve Online. Sure, there's a lot of tinfoil hattery and conspiracies that the CSM is all a bunch of null-sec bitter vets and their opinions are skewed but honestly, not everyone goes on the Forums on Eve Online either - so the only way to communicate with them is in-game. CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: I would like to reiterate my point, the CPM has not worked and CCP themselves have stated thus at the start of this thread. Q&As, alliance chats and the like are not the issue, its a puppet show of a group of people who are both powerless and universally disregarded therefore why persist in trying to make this work? Calling time on it right now before it perpetuates and becomes like the CSM where people are turning up with an agenda of their own to benefit the few is a massive risk to the commercial success of this game. Already the community is polarised around this topic and the attitudes shown are frankly unprofessional and disrespectful of the granted position that was given. What makes it worse is the frankly shameful way the CPM are digging their fingernails into the door frame as the community collectively calls for this to end. CCP your marketing gimmick is backfiring, perhaps its time to act before this becomes the news story...... It's really time to stop with the self-aggrandizing retaliation, inciting riots and the like when it's entirely unnecessary. Take a step back and look at this objectively because nothing that is being portrayed here is progressive, it's only taking steps backward. What can be done to make the communication between the community, the CPM and CCP better - that is what we need to focus on. ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 619	Posted - 2013.11.05 21:32:00 - [113] - Quote Whooaaa what the hell happened here? The last time I was on this thread it was going very amicably and bubbling along nicely, like a slow cooked stew. I come back and the toxins of the majority of the forums has seeped in!! Get that out of here now thank you. It would seem to me, that there is a level of distatifaction being flung around here, by people who are ignorant of relevant facts or find them to be inconveniently in the way of justifying an already held view. Part of the problem here, as I mentioned in my previous post, that CCP have placed enormous obstacles in the way of the CPM, preventing them to communicate to the Dust community the same way the CSM can talk to to the Eve Community. The level of secrecy and paranoia being exhibited by CCP regarding the infomation flow is entirely of their own creation and is almost singularly responsible for the toxic nature of the forums that pervade these texts. How are CCP responsible? It's really very simple. They royally F*** up the launch of Dust 514 by releasing a clearly sub par product, unable to achieve even their most modest claims about its features. And they did what most companies or organisations do. Panic for a while, sit down and discuss and action plan even if it means throwing existing plans out of the window. They also clamed up and stopped talking. And left the CPM dangling in the wind and in the middle of the storm. Why? Because they also reverted to what companies tend to do when they get the kind of critical mauling Dust got. They get paranoid and start treating it all like the Crown Jewels. IF the game was in better shape at launch and they were able to carry on with the original plan, which was a 3 month iteration pattern then we wouldn't be having this thread. The CPM was supposed to work as it does in Eve, with a longer time frame between releases they could bring the CPM much sooner into the design process and a less hectic but more productive relationship would naturally form. Instead, what we got was the fast tracking monthly pattern put in place to solve the major problems with the game, which was of course the correct of action now in hindsight. But it meant that the CPM was having to work in conditions that neither they or CCP envisioned. But CCP had already announced and chosen the concept of the CPM and the players who would be in it. They couldn't just pretend they didn't exist. I can perfectly understand why some would think that the CPM have done nothing. They've not been allowed to talk about what they do. CCP haven't helped by the fact we've NEVER had a fully broken down set of minutes for any on the discussions held with the CPM. Never been told the agenda of a meeting after the fact. Never been told as to how the design process works with the CPM. In the absence of facts, people make up their own, which oddly enough fully support and 'prove' themslves correct. Perhaps Nova and the others advocating having no CPM are correct. Perhaps they're not (in my opinion however they are incorrect) but I do know this for certain. If don't get a fully functioning CPM now, with CCP backing them up and allowing them to talk to the community more freely, then this will be the last CPM. No one is going to want to work in those conditions, no one is going to want to deal with accusations of corruption from people who conveniently don't have to prove it in the anonimous world of Internet forums. And no one is going do it if they don't think they'll be able to make a differance to the game. I think CCP Logibro's post earlier should clarlify the situation and calm things down a lot. I really hope they do. Otherwise an opportunity for a sanctioned, elected advocacy group with a proper mandate for whats best for the community is going to pass us by. Mercenary Clone of Dennie Fleetfoot CEO of DUST University**
virgindestroyer7 Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 299	Posted - 2013.11.05 21:43:00 - [114] - Quote CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: I would like to reiterate my point, the CPM has not worked and CCP themselves have stated thus at the start of this thread. Q&As, alliance chats and the like are not the issue, its a puppet show of a group of people who are both powerless and universally disregarded therefore why persist in trying to make this work? Calling time on it right now before it perpetuates and becomes like the CSM where people are turning up with an agenda of their own to benefit the few is a massive risk to the commercial success of this game. Already the community is polarised around this topic and the attitudes shown are frankly unprofessional and disrespectful of the granted position that was given. What makes it worse is the frankly shameful way the CPM are digging their fingernails into the door frame as the community collectively calls for this to end. CCP your marketing gimmick is backfiring, perhaps its time to act before this becomes the news story...... I think you're mistaken. The community is not calling for and end, they're calling for the CPM to actually be able to do more. They do the best they can but there are so many restrictions on what they can say or do its very frustrating. Most of the CPM are active on the forums and in the community, helping to explain and elaborate things we have questions on that we find important that CCP doesn't or just don't have the time for. I take full advantage of them, asking them to squad with my corp, asking them to join the events that I promote. I make sure that anyone I come in contact with that has in depth questions about this game, what's coming, needs elaboration on things and even just wants a way to reach out to the CPM has every opportunity to because I'm so sure of their place within this game and community. The CPM is invaluable, I appreciate what they've done so far and I stand behind them needing more from CCP. As a community we also should voice this so maybe, one day, they can be as effective as intended.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 9948	Posted - 2013.11.05 21:52:00 - [115] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Thanks for the prompt response. I probably should have clarified...I know it's not practical to get the whole CPM togther. I was thinking along the lines of one or two that could essentially represent the CPM as a whole. Tell you what, I'll try to compile some key questions and get them sent over to you and would appreciate your response, if possible we work a window out where you can pop in with us and run some matches and chat with us...you game? I appreciate the position you guys are in and the work you do. It's honestly difficult for me to "see" your work or the significance of interaction you may have with CCP but i've been actively trying to educate myself for the last month or so on it. You're more than welcome Aye I should be good for a few games during winter break just right now is a bad time because I am going through an unlock streak getting a new gun every few days now. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier Specialist Current Theme \\= Advanced Plasma Rifle =// Unlocked
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 918	Posted - 2013.11.05 21:56:00 - [116] - Quote virgindestroyer7 wrote: CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: I would like to reiterate my point, the CPM has not worked and CCP themselves have stated thus at the start of this thread. Q&As, alliance chats and the like are not the issue, its a puppet show of a group of people who are both powerless and universally disregarded therefore why persist in trying to make this work? Calling time on it right now before it perpetuates and becomes like the CSM where people are turning up with an agenda of their own to benefit the few is a massive risk to the commercial success of this game. Already the community is polarised around this topic and the attitudes shown are frankly unprofessional and disrespectful of the granted position that was given. What makes it worse is the frankly shameful way the CPM are digging their fingernails into the door frame as the community collectively calls for this to end. CCP your marketing gimmick is backfiring, perhaps its time to act before this becomes the news story...... I think you're mistaken. The community is not calling for and end, they're calling for the CPM to actually be able to do more. They do the best they can but there are so many restrictions on what they can say or do its very frustrating. Most of the CPM are active on the forums and in the community, helping to explain and elaborate things we have questions on that we find important that CCP doesn't or just don't have the time for. I take full advantage of them, asking them to squad with my corp, asking them to join the events that I promote. I make sure that anyone I come in contact with that has in depth questions about this game, what's coming, needs elaboration on things and even just wants a way to reach out to the CPM has every opportunity to because I'm so sure of their place within this game and community. The CPM is invaluable, I appreciate what they've done so far and I stand behind them needing more from CCP. As a community we also should voice this so maybe, one day, they can be as effective as intended. Quoted for truth. The CPM are active and engaging with the community, and are doing a great job within the limits of their roles. "Regard your soldiers as your children, and they will follow you into the deepest valleys." Sun Tzu
CEOPyrex CloneA The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 340	Posted - 2013.11.05 22:47:00 - [117] - Quote The majority of the community is calling for an end to this, go read the posts and see the significant disrespect out there for this group and this premise. Also go read CCP Dolans post at the front of this thread, he himself states it is not working. If CCP think its been a failure, why are you trying to defend a position that is untenable? I was very aware when i decided to take this stance that i would come up against those who would not relinquish their soapbox of power easily (and their followers) but decided to do it as i get a huge volume of people mailing me asking what my thoughts are on the CPM concept... so here we are. By their own admition there are groups forming right now with an agenda in mind to 'Fix scout suits' or to 'get tanks nerfed' etc etc i know because they some how feel they can buy my support so perhaps i do an election video for them and back them. A flawed, corrupt and frankly pointless concept made by CCP so they can do a couple of good press items on it and wave a carrot on a stick over parts of the community. Have some free will about you and show CCP they messed up and resign. Anything else is just eroding what little respect is left for you all.
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 3636	Posted - 2013.11.05 23:12:00 - [118] - Quote CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: The majority of the community is calling for an end to this, go read the posts and see the significant disrespect out there for this group and this premise. Also go read CCP Dolans post at the front of this thread, he himself states it is not working. If CCP think its been a failure, why are you trying to defend a position that is untenable? I was very aware when i decided to take this stance that i would come up against those who would not relinquish their soapbox of power easily (and their followers) but decided to do it as i get a huge volume of people mailing me asking what my thoughts are on the CPM concept... so here we are. By their own admition there are groups forming right now with an agenda in mind to 'Fix scout suits' or to 'get tanks nerfed' etc etc i know because they some how feel they can buy my support so perhaps i do an election video for them and back them. A flawed, corrupt and frankly pointless concept made by CCP so they can do a couple of good press items on it and wave a carrot on a stick over parts of the community. Have some free will about you and show CCP they messed up and resign. Anything else is just eroding what little respect is left for you all. You're mistaken. What he said was this: "However, changes in key personnel within the DUST 514 development team has made it difficult to continuously engage the CPM in open dialogue regarding the development of DUST 514" This isn't the CPM's fault, at all, and never did he say that it was not working. Quite the contrary, he says this: "While there have been difficulties over the past 6 months, the CPM has demonstrated a continued commitment to working with CCP, and I must commend them for their dedicated time and effort. Their institution is invaluable in a game as new and rapidly growing as DUST 514, especially given the single shared universe it inhabits with EVE Online. CCP is fully committed to strengthening their relationship with the CPM and growing DUST 514 through the help of their collective expertise." The only thing that is flawed, corrupt and frankly pointless is that there are those in the community that are attacking a system that has a few chinks in the armor, assuming that it in and of itself is broken when it isn't. As CCP says in the paragraph above, they strive THROUGH the difficulties and continue to perform at their best. They haven't given up on us and we shouldn't give up on them. ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
Ivar Iosef G I A N T EoN. 17	Posted - 2013.11.05 23:14:00 - [119] - Quote I'm still trying to find where Dolan says its not working...I just can't! I see him saying that its not working how it was originally envisioned, but that its working in different ways......I see him saying that their help has been invaluable. So who are these hordes of people clamoring for the end of the CPM? Right, you don't need to give facts, just shouting your inane drivel over and over will suit your purpose just fine. Could it be that you're miffed that you weren't picked for the team? (Thank goodness)
jenza aranda BetaMax. 2016	Posted - 2013.11.05 23:22:00 - [120] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Open question for the CPM / CCP Devs... Would you be willing to come to Corp / Alliance Private Chat Channels to have town hall meetings with our members? Let me elaborate: 1) Have one day a week or every other week that a Corp or Alliance can sign up wtih and you join our closed channel or we come to one you set up and we have a brief update on CPM / CCP actions and ellicit feedback and questions from the community writ large. 2) The Corp leadership is responsible for making sure it's not a ptich fork and torches session...just conversation and information exchange from the community to their appointed / elected reps and maybe the guest star Dev. If you are willing to take on this type fo engagement I would like to sign up OSG Planetary Operations to be your test case to see if this could be a positive practice for the CCP, CPM, and the community. If not, then please let us know why you don't think that's feasible. Thanks for your work...most of us wouldn't be on these forums if we didn't have a game that we weren't invested in and that is a credit to both CCP and CPM. - jay I recently got a new job so i dont get home till very late in the evening so on weekdays i really just want to sleep. weekends, most likely sundays, are better and id be more than happy to chat, like i said if you want to get in touch, my skype is jenza514 Dust 514 101 // Dust 514 Wiki

CEOPyrex CloneA The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 340	Posted - 2013.11.05 23:27:00 - [121] - Quote No i read the post fine, Dolan states it has not worked as planned, therefore it failed. Sorry that's how i read it. I see CPMs openly abusing players (even in this thread) something that is not fitting their position I see alliance members now clamoring to keep the CPM alive so that it can be twisted to suit their agendas To me and most of the community i think its an open and shut case that this marketing ploy is done and the wider community would be best served with more open groups of people providing feedback and give CCP the respect they deserve to develop their game as the last few patches and months have been excellent all round due to direct coms from CCP and NOT via the CPM. The facts speak for themselves, the community is receptive to the 'new way' of regular coms, regular patches, posts and treads direct from the developers, remind me, why do we need a CPM anymore?
virgindestroyer7 Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 304	Posted - 2013.11.05 23:29:00 - [122] - Quote CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: The majority of the community is calling for an end to this, go read the posts and see the significant disrespect out there for this group and this premise. Also go read CCP Dolans post at the front of this thread, he himself states it is not working. If CCP think its been a failure, why are you trying to defend a position that is untenable? I was very aware when i decided to take this stance that i would come up against those who would not relinquish their soapbox of power easily (and their followers) but decided to do it as i get a huge volume of people mailing me asking what my thoughts are on the CPM concept... so here we are. By their own admition there are groups forming right now with an agenda in mind to 'Fix scout suits' or to 'get tanks nerfed' etc etc i know because they some how feel they can buy my support so perhaps i do an election video for them and back them. A flawed, corrupt and frankly pointless concept made by CCP so they can do a couple of good press items on it and wave a carrot on a stick over parts of the community. Have some free will about you and show CCP they messed up and resign. Anything else is just eroding what little respect is left for you all. I appreciate you having your own opinion and speaking up about it, however I still completely disagree and it's not because I'm a follower. Anyone in this community can tell you I don't follow. I think for myself, my corp and for my alliance and I don't just do because there is something to do. As a CEO, an alliance leader and a multiconsole 600+ clan leader following isn't an option. The reason why I find the CPM so invaluable and stand behind them so is because I have first and second hand seen the impact of what they have done. Between setting up tournaments on their own spare time, their own experiences in EVE the game that one day we will be a bigger part of, how they (even as volunteers) work so hard at doing what's best for the community and not for themselves. There is truth in what you are saying, that the CPM's who are non-active or unable to do their designations should have stepped down but this is new! The rules and guidelines are being made as we go and mistakes have and will be made. The potential in this game is wonderful, I've been playing since June last year and through everything that CCP has done, I agree that the CPM was a good choice. There are plenty of people who also agree and it is not because they are followers. They too have put time and energy in promoting, playing and working with this game to see where it is today and without the CPM's help we would be at a fraction of where we are now. Just IMAGINE the possibilities if they could do more. If CCP allowed them to, if the lines of communication between not only CCP and them, but CPM and the community opened up more. Any of the CPM's who need my support can ask for it from me. I'm happy to offer it and will continue to.
virgindestroyer7 Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 304	Posted - 2013.11.05 23:32:00 - [123] - Quote CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: No i read the post fine, Dolan states it has not worked as planned, therefore it failed. Sorry that's how i read it. I see CPMs openly abusing players (even in this thread) something that is not fitting their position I see alliance members now clamoring to keep the CPM alive so that it can be twisted to suit their agendas To me and most of the community i think its an open and shut case that this marketing ploy is done and the wider community would be best served with more open groups of people providing feedback and give CCP the respect they deserve to develop their game as the last few patches and months have been excellent all round due to direct coms from CCP and NOT via the CPM. The facts speak for themselves, the community is receptive to the 'new way' of regular coms, regular patches, posts and treads direct from the developers, remind me, why do we need a CPM anymore? What community do you speak of? I participate in DRUNK NIGHT(which my corp actually runs with DSTheDrunkHeavy), Tdome514, squad cup tournament, FWand PC and I never have seen you around. I'm curious as to who you find you are speaking for.
virgindestroyer7 Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 304	Posted - 2013.11.05 23:34:00 - [124] - Quote Starfire Revo wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Open question for the CPM / CCP Devs... Would you be willing to come to Corp / Alliance Private Chat Channels to have town hall meetings with our members? Let me elaborate: 1) Have one day a week or every other week that a Corp or Alliance can sign up wtih and you join our closed channel or we come to one you set up and we have a brief update on CPM / CCP actions and ellicit feedback and questions from the community writ large. I ran a live Q&A with Hans and Kane a while back. I'd be up for doing another if people are interested. I would be interested Gimble. I know alot of people would be too.
Ivar Iosef G I A N T EoN. 20	Posted - 2013.11.05 23:36:00 - [125] - Quote CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: No i read the post fine, Dolan states it has not worked as planned, therefore it failed. Sorry that's how i read it. I see CPMs openly abusing players (even in this thread) something that is not fitting their position I see alliance members now clamoring to keep the CPM alive so that it can be twisted to suit their agendas To me and most of the community i think its an open and shut case that this marketing ploy is done and the wider community would be best served with more open groups of people providing feedback and give CCP the respect they deserve to develop their game as the last few patches and months have been excellent all round due to direct coms from CCP and NOT via the CPM. The facts speak for themselves, the community is receptive to the 'new way' of regular coms, regular patches, posts and treads direct from the developers, remind me, why do we need a CPM anymore? Because a thousand voices are babble and three voices are conversation. And honestly, if you left it solely up to CCP Shanghai, I think we would be back to silence and secrecy faster than you could spit. Good intentions are fine, but I would still rather have someone minding the cashbox. And none of the CPM are in my alliance. Funny how the truth is never what you claim it to be. And yes, I saw you abusing Caz, you should be ashamed. You keep speaking of the "wider community" but I keep not seeing these scores of people you keep talking about.
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 3636	Posted - 2013.11.05 23:37:00 - [126] - Quote CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: No i read the post fine, Dolan states it has not worked as planned, therefore it failed. Sorry that's how i read it. I see CPMs openly abusing players (even in this thread) something that is not fitting their position I see alliance members now clamoring to keep the CPM alive so that it can be twisted to suit their agendas To me and most of the community i think its an open and shut case that this marketing ploy is done and the wider community would be best served with more open groups of people providing feedback and give CCP the respect they deserve to develop their game as the last few patches and months have been excellent all round due to direct coms from CCP and NOT via the CPM. The facts speak for themselves, the community is receptive to the 'new way' of regular coms, regular patches, posts and treads direct from the developers, remind me, why do we need a CPM anymore? Please quote where he says this please, because how you read it is likely not how it really is. But this does go to prove something - how you read something likely isn't how it really is, which is why CCP doesn't post up their rough concepts because of reactions exactly like this. It gets misinterpreted and misconstrued. Logibro even says this in his post. CCP says that it's working, that their help has been invaluable. Just as well, you can't say that the majority of the community agrees with you and then turn around to say that alliance members are clamoring to keep the CPM alive, it's contradictory. This will be my last response as it's simply just a case of arguing against someone who seems to be very confused as to how things really work, and I greatly apologize that we can't help you understand it more clearly - that's a failure on everyone's part, unfortunately. I implore that we leave this as it is and move on. ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 624	Posted - 2013.11.05 23:45:00 - [127] - Quote I'm sorry but I've now read that post of CCP Dolan at the beginning of this thread several time and could you please point me to the part where CCP say its failed, which is your assertion. I'm reading it as not working as hoped and gives a number of reasons as to why that has been case and the remedies that they wish to put into place. As to to the accusation that the CPM don't do anything, I'd like to refute that right belief here. On a couple of occasions now, I have been asked for input on several aspects of upcoming game features by CCP at the behest of the CPM, notably the Academy matches. I've also given my thoughts to CCP and the CPM as to the development of the NPE, some of which actually came in with 1.5. I've only given these examples as they are now in the public domain and in the game. I didn't mention them at the time because even though I'm not bound by the NDA like the CPM are, I know enough to not go blabbing about a feature that might not make it. It would also be somewhat discourteous for me speak about it when I'd been trusted not to. Now I understand that you only have my word for it but I can assure you that the CPM are doing a lot of work and working with the community and CCP on a daily basis. The problem here is one of transparency and the fact that CCP's community staff for dust has been not at full strength till now. But as Dolan said, they have LogiBro and Sabrewing in place now and that should change in the near future. As for the 'majority' calling for it in the forums, they're now so toxic and populated by self interested cliques of players determined to have the game progress only as suiting to their playstyle to the detriment of others, that to claim any kind any form of mandate from them is frankly alarming to me. Only a properly elected and vetted advocacy group such as the CPM can truly be thought of as having a mandate. The fact that the election process has slowed is entirely by their own admission, CCP's fault and they are trying now to get it sorted with the monthly iteration pattern likely to slow after 1.7/8 These are only just my thoughts of course, but I know that I speak for those that agree with me here, when I say that the CPM does work, it just needs CCP to work with them better. Mercenary Clone of Dennie Fleetfoot CEO of DUST University
virgindestroyer7 Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 305	Posted - 2013.11.05 23:52:00 - [128] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: but I know that I speak for those that agree with me here, when I say that the CPM does work, it just needs CCP to work with them better. THISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHIS
Cosgar ParagonX 7364	Posted - 2013.11.06 00:57:00 - [129] - Quote I'd rather not have a CPM. I have no qualms with the work CPM0 has done, in fact, I commend them. But I've seen first hand what eventually happens when you have a select few represent a community. They either sit atop the proverbial pyramid, greasing each others palms, or they get served up on a silver platter to the very community that "elected" them when things go sour. It's time we give the power to the people instead of letting the 1% pick and choose what they think is important. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Thor McStrut Reckoners 329	Posted - 2013.11.06 01:03:00 - [130] - Quote CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: I would like to reiterate my point, the CPM has not worked and CCP themselves have stated thus at the start of this thread. Q&As, alliance chats and the like are not the issue, its a puppet show of a group of people who are both powerless and universally disregarded therefore why persist in trying to make this work? Calling time on it right now before it perpetuates and becomes like the CSM where people are turning up with an agenda of their own to benefit the few is a massive risk to the commercial success of this game. Already the community is polarised around this topic and the attitudes shown are frankly unprofessional and disrespectful of the granted position that was given. What makes it worse is the frankly shameful way the CPM are digging their fingernails into the door frame as the community collectively calls for this to end. CCP your marketing gimmick is backfiring, perhaps its time to act before this becomes the news story...... You know, I've really enjoyed your YouTube channel, and listening to your opinions on gameplay. In fact, I even started playing War Thunder because of your channel. But after reading this thread, I'm starting to realize you either aren't very smart, or are so blinded in your crusade to disband the CPM that you intentionally fail in comprehension. As pointed out before me, CCP clearly stated that the CPM has not been able to accomplish what it set out to do because of CCP's failings. That doesn't mean that the CPM has failed, but that it stalled and that CCP intends to push through and see it to completion. Add in the reply by Logibro and the simple truth is that due to the NDA, we don't even have a clue what ludicrous ideas the CPM has stopped through their advocation for the community. Does that make them a failure, or a success? I'm willing to bet that if people treated the current CPM members with respect and professionalism, that they'd get the same in return. The constant attacks from unfounded opinions is just inciting the same in return.


CCP Dolan C C P C C P Alliance 91	Posted - 2013.11.06 01:03:00 - [131] - Quote Greetings guys, I just wanted to pop in for two specific reasons. One is to say that I am quite pleased with the progress we have made following my original posting of this statement. I just finished filling out the CPM budget for next year and have made a lot of progress on getting elections into a place where I am happy with them. CCP Logibro and CCP SaberWing have been doing great work helping to get the CPM involved with our upcoming development (much to CCP Logibro's lack of sleep, buy him a beer if you see him). I am sure we will be seeing even more meetings coming out of them in the future. Now for the less savory part of why I am here. So in this thread and in certain external mediums, some well respected members of the community (who actually have my personal contact information and could contact me at any time). Have been sharing some blatant misinformation about how the programs that I run and operate work on a fundamental basis. To help address some of these inaccuracies, I'll list a few bullet points: Making claims like "a majority of the community is calling for an end to this" is blatantly false, and I would like to see any sort of stats backing up this claim. I love to see when the majority of the community agree on anything, as it usually results in great changes, but you aren't going to find a consensus to support disbanding the CPM. I suspect that people are falling victim to confusing "the community" for "people who talk to me". Making claims that the CSM and CPM are marketing stunts and would be better replaced by a group of the "underprivileged or disabled", is frankly pretty insulting to a myriad of groups including myself, the CSM and CPM, the community members who support the elections, and the disabled. Honestly, if the CSM or CPM was some sort of marketing endeavor, you'd be hearing a lot more about them, but I really don't have the time to show them off to the general public as both the councils and myself are busy doing actual work to improve the games. Making claims that the CSM is in some way corrupt and that the CPM will follow suit is also blatantly false, and shows a severe lack of understanding of how the CSM and CPM operate. In the past, members who come in to only serve specific agendas quickly disappear in to the ether of irrelevance while constructive members actually get good things done. Pushing agendas isn't how the Councils work at all. Council members are not junior game designers, they are a sounding board for CCP ideas and provide feedback on our planned upcoming features and ideas. I understand that in the past CCP has made game decisions that have made some people upset, and CSM members have taken the opportunity to troll those upset people, but there is no part of being on the council that prevents you from trolling. If anyone feels that they have evidence of real corruption or information leaks on the CSM or CPM I would appreciate you mailing both myself and Internal Affairs so it can be properly dealt with. Making claims like "because things have not progressed as quickly as planned, the CPM project is a failure" is either just poor rhetoric or a lack of understanding of how game development and creative industries in general work. If CCP wrote off everything that did not progress as planned, as a failure then we would never have had a game and would have remained a group of 3 programmers in Iceland. Finally, while I have always been open to forming large focus groups to work on particular content (as was done by Hans Jagerblitzen during his CSM time to work on Incursions), I think many people underestimate the vital nature of an NDA to the whole council process. As Logibro detailed earlier, a certain amount of the things that the CSM and CPM hear are simply not fit for public consumption. Additionally, I think many people underestimate the time commitment required of council members. If someone thinks they can rapidly form large groups of knowledgeable players, have them all enter into a legal binding NDA, not have any of the info they receive leak, and do it with a 24 hour turnaround time from the request for info to them handing in their official feedback, then you should probably apply for my job because you are a miracle worker. Whew, sorry for all that unpleasantness guys, I hope that I didn't spoil the mood. I just think that there are a lot of people out there who don't really understand how this whole thing works, yet still try to speak from some sort of position of authority on the matter, particularly among a group who might be less familiar with the CPM's predecessor. I have a lot of appreciation for the work that these guys do, and I also tend to get a little upset when people try to bend my words to support bad ideas. While I acknowledge that CPM project didn't do as well in it's first 6 months as I would have liked, I am not going to let people try and kick it while it is down. (P.S.- It's a little late here, so I'll let you guys do my spell checking for me )

Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 3638	Posted - 2013.11.06 01:11:00 - [132] - Quote CCP Dolan wrote: Greetings guys, I just wanted to pop in for two specific reasons. One is to say that I am quite pleased with the progress we have made following my original posting of this statement. I just finished filling out the CPM budget for next year and have made a lot of progress on getting elections into a place where I am happy with them. CCP Logibro and CCP SaberWing have been doing great work helping to get the CPM involved with our upcoming development (much to CCP Logibro's lack of sleep, buy him a beer if you see him). I am sure we will be seeing even more meetings coming out of them in the future. Now for the less savory part of why I am here. So in this thread and in certain external mediums, some well respected members of the community (who actually have my personal contact information and could contact me at any time). Have been sharing some blatant misinformation about how the programs that I run and operate work on a fundamental basis. To help address some of these inaccuracies, I'll list a few bullet points: Making claims like "a majority of the community is calling for an end to this" is blatantly false, and I would like to see any sort of stats backing up this claim. I love to see when the majority of the community agree on anything, as it usually results in great changes, but you aren't going to find a consensus to support disbanding the CPM. I suspect that people are falling victim to confusing "the community" for "people who talk to me". Making claims that the CSM and CPM are marketing stunts and would be better replaced by a group of the "underprivileged or disabled", is frankly pretty insulting to a myriad of groups including myself, the CSM and CPM, the community members who support the elections, and the disabled. Honestly, if the CSM or CPM was some sort of marketing endeavor, you'd be hearing a lot more about them, but I really don't have the time to show them off to the general public as both the councils and myself are busy doing actual work to improve the games. Making claims that the CSM is in some way corrupt and that the CPM will follow suit is also blatantly false, and shows a severe lack of understanding of how the CSM and CPM operate. In the past, members who come in to only serve specific agendas quickly disappear in to the ether of irrelevance while constructive members actually get good things done. Pushing agendas isn't how the Councils work at all. Council members are not junior game designers, they are a sounding board for CCP ideas and provide feedback on our planned upcoming features and ideas. I understand that in the past CCP has made game decisions that have made some people upset, and CSM members have taken the opportunity to troll those upset people, but there is no part of being on the council that prevents you from trolling. If anyone feels that they have evidence of real corruption or information leaks on the CSM or CPM I would appreciate you mailing both myself and Internal Affairs so it can be properly dealt with. Making claims like "because things have not progressed as quickly as planned, the CPM project is a failure" is either just poor rhetoric or a lack of understanding of how game development and creative industries in general work. If CCP wrote off everything that did not progress as planned, as a failure then we would never have had a game and would have remained a group of 3 programmers in Iceland. Finally, while I have always been open to forming large focus groups to work on particular content (as was done by Hans Jagerblitzen during his CSM time to work on Incursions), I think many people underestimate the vital nature of an NDA to the whole council process. As Logibro detailed earlier, a certain amount of the things that the CSM and CPM hear are simply not fit for public consumption. Additionally, I think many people underestimate the time commitment required of council members. If someone thinks they can rapidly form large groups of knowledgeable players, have them all enter into a legal binding NDA, not have any of the info they receive leak, and do it with a 24 hour turnaround time from the request for info to them handing in their official feedback, then you should probably apply for my job because you are a miracle worker. Whew, sorry for all that unpleasantness guys, I hope that I didn't spoil the mood. I just think that there are a lot of people out there who don't really understand how this whole thing works, yet still try to speak from some sort of position of authority on the matter, particularly among a group who might be less familiar with the CPM's predecessor. I have a lot of appreciation for the work that these guys do, and I also tend to get a little upset when people try to bend my words to support bad ideas. While I acknowledge that CPM project didn't do as well in it's first 6 months as I would have liked, I am not going to let people try and kick it while it is down. (P.S.- It's a little late here, so I'll let you guys do my spell checking for me ) Excellent response and very glad you chimed in, Dolan. Unfortunately, there will always be a cynic in the group - but I feel like we, as a community, might have failed to help the others learn about how things really work and why the CPM is a necessity. Perhaps this is something we can work on in the future. ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
jin foxdale Jedi Slime. 81	Posted - 2013.11.06 01:28:00 - [133] - Quote Hi guys, I kind of wandered into this thread by happy accident, and whilst I have absolutely nothing to say that would advance the subject at hand, I would like to say thanks. I have read the entire thread, and found it educational, illuminating and on occasion, both shocking and humorous. I have a much better understanding of what goes on behind the scenes, and new levels of respect for all concerned. Now if you'll excuse me, I have a MLT shotgun to squeeze and a MLT light frame dropsuit to pootle about in.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1187	Posted - 2013.11.06 03:31:00 - [134] - Quote In following the CSMs in EVE from the beginning up to our current CSM 8 i've been struck by one thing: people might get elected by power blocs, and people might have an agenda, but the vast majority of work that has come out of the CSMs has been for the betterment of the game as a whole. Agendas notwithstanding. The same will be true here with our CPMs. We've all seen the large number of people invested in this game. Soon, when we genuinely connect to EVE, we will see large numbers of peeps genuinely invested in New Eden. People do not find it hard to rise above their personal agendas to contribute to the greater good, and DUST will benefit greatly from these people. We're fortunate to have the crew we do for CPM0. Dolan has shown us that the work on the charter and the election mechanics are receiving the attention and effort they deserve. Our epically tortuous path through this process is showing signs of straightening out and there's light and open space up ahead. To give up, to abandon hope, to yield to rank cynicism at this juncture is foolish, wasteful and offers no conceivable benefit. Staying the course will put DUST where it should be: beside its sister EVE, as one of the two games in existence that have a democratically elected player council embedded as a stakeholder in the development cycle. Once that is done we can get to work building a virtual universe. For real.
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 169	Posted - 2013.11.06 03:45:00 - [135] - Quote I just want to know this; How is CCP going to prevent alliances from monopolizing the CPM? As Goonswarn has shown in eve, a voting block is a powerful thing to have. A thing that can easily sweep the non-alliance player (the majority of eve) under the rug. Also Why can't CCP just ask questions from time-to-time on the updates page? Just one page that ask a question with a yes/no/maybe selection.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1874	Posted - 2013.11.06 03:50:00 - [136] - Quote THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: "high level knowledgeable players"? PLEASE. kain speros the only decent player in CPM, as well as being the only active player, probably the only one to play PC battles and probably the only one with a proto suit, oddly enough hes the only one with a decent head around his shoulders and a REAL understanding of this game as well as its players. But the rest of the CPM is garbage in different ways like inactivity, bias, outright aholes, or just plain dumb. I could give multiple examples of each of these. I used to say less harsh, but similarly stupid stuff about the CPM. I've had the opportunity to play with one and chat with several others via Skype. This is BS.
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 215	Posted - 2013.11.06 04:00:00 - [137] - Quote NanoCleric wrote: Starfire Revo wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Open question for the CPM / CCP Devs... Would you be willing to come to Corp / Alliance Private Chat Channels to have town hall meetings with our members? Let me elaborate: 1) Have one day a week or every other week that a Corp or Alliance can sign up wtih and you join our closed channel or we come to one you set up and we have a brief update on CPM / CCP actions and ellicit feedback and questions from the community writ large. I ran a live Q&A with Hans and Kane a while back. I'd be up for doing another if people are interested. I think things like this are great as they do engage with the community.. however.. this still only caters for the 'vocal' part of the community. What about all those casual gamers who don't have time to read the forums much and miss things like this, what about all the multitudes of people that the CPM members simply would not have the real life time to do face to face sessions like this, what about the new players who have no idea who these CPM members are, what about those who do not have PC's (and there's many many of them), what about the 'majority' of active gamers. Again this is only catering to the minority. Therefore it only addresses issues and ideas of the minority which shapes the game for the minority and not the majority. Sure, some things might be spot on that they do, and the majority might agree.. but at present it seems that people only get a say if they seek out the CPM.. and most people will not do that, it's just human nature and to most people, this is 'just a game'. That however does not mean they should be ignored. This is why i say they do not have the tools to be able to engage with the masses, and therefore cannot have a clear perspective of what the majority want to see. I mentioned in my previous post about interfaces and surveys delivered on the PS3, this could be coded to extract questions from a document which the CPM could even submit and maintain to get as much feedback as they can. There are means and ways for CCP to integrate this, though i still believe it should ideally fall to a CCP Staff member to manage such a task as what appears on the screen CCP are responsible for. The key point is the 'whole' community needs to be engaged by the representative without requiring the users to check forums, websites, go on IRC sessions etc... Humans are naturally lazy, and those who don't succumb to the lazyness don't always have the time to persue things like this. So the representatives should have the responsibility to maximize the engagement with the playerbase so they have a broader perspective of the majority opinions. Honestly.. if you can't represent the whole community, then your only serving yourselves. I mean this sentence in a very general way and would apply it to 'any' representation of any community in any form, and yourselves applys to the individual along with (friends and family politics). So without representing a whole community.. there's little point in it. At the end of the day, noone likes misrepresentation, and without engagement, that's what happens. I very much agree that communication and engagement on all sides is really the answer to most of this. I should have noted it early, but I actually like the idea of in game polls or quick feedback mechanisms at the loading screen quite a bit. I've seen a very similar system used by the folks that develop Grepolis (developed CCPs neck of the woods by the way) and it's a very well received mechanism in that game's community.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2730	Posted - 2013.11.06 04:49:00 - [138] - Quote As soon as the community gets to pick the CPM, this will all matter. Until then, the whole thing is a joke.
Leither Yiltron KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 772	Posted - 2013.11.06 05:50:00 - [139] - Quote CCP Dolan wrote: Greetings guys, I just wanted to pop in for two specific reasons. One is to say that I am quite pleased with the progress we have made following my original posting of this statement. I just finished filling out the CPM budget for next year and have made a lot of progress on getting elections into a place where I am happy with them. CCP Logibro and CCP Saberwing have been doing great work helping to get the CPM involved with our upcoming development (much to CCP Logibro's lack of sleep, buy him a beer if you see him). I am sure we will be seeing even more meetings coming out of them in the future. The other part of this post seemed like something that might have been better posted when you first set up the CPM, but whatever. It doesn't need to be said more than once, so a wonder that it has taken so long to say. In regards to the quoted part: Fantastic news! I won't believe it until we see an actual end product, however. I'm sure this is one of your guys's highest priorities and I can't wait to see it done. As before my encouragement is toward tangible products as a result of the heartening statements. PC Coordinator for RISE of LEGION Have a pony
IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 303	Posted - 2013.11.06 06:07:00 - [140] - Quote This thread has given me cancer....thanks dust community. Y'all need to go wrap urselves in tinfoil....screw the hat. PHI Recruitment or PHIsh Tank in game Twitch

Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 878	Posted - 2013.11.06 07:04:00 - [141] - Quote Imagine how much better the game would be if it was made open source and we could send in patches.
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 3644	Posted - 2013.11.06 07:34:00 - [142] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: I just want to know this; How is CCP going to prevent alliances from monopolizing the CPM? As Goonswarn has shown in eve, a voting block is a powerful thing to have. A thing that can easily sweep the non-alliance player (the majority of eve) under the rug. Also Why can't CCP just ask questions from time-to-time on the updates page? Just one page that ask a question with a yes/no/maybe selection. Why shouldn't power blocs be allowed to field their representative? I mean, by definition a representative of a power bloc is, in essence, representing a vast majority, is it not? This was a concern fielded back when Mittani was in the CSM and he brought up a very interesting counter-argument: The only thing that could come from preventing power blocs from being allowed to vote for their representative is sufficiently preventing them from voting for the person they want to be in the council. There's nothing wrong with power blocs and of course representatives campaigning will have the support of those that are closest to them, the support of those that have heard what their views are and are most closely associated with them. Denying them the ability to vote for that representative for fear of monopolizing is effectively reducing the voice of that entire percentage - are their views not equal as someone else's? Suffice to say, power blocs are where most of the problems are voiced anyway being as a large collective is more effective at noticing the high end problems - one such being the dreaded 'District Locking'. This isn't a problem that Public Matchmaker or Faction Warfare participants will actively notice or be concerned with. I have made it an adamant point to express my views and opinions with as many as I possibly can and I've heard the voices of many people, even from corporations that we would consider our adversaries. While I'm not actively campaigning for CPM, it's no secret that I have expressed my intent to one day run for election, when such is available. The majority of these voices, however, come from the Power Blocs in PC - solely because they are, in my opinion, the best source of information for the high end gaming that Dust 514 offers and I'm sure that many with CPM/CSM experience would agree that nullifying the voice of the PC participants is effectively killing off a large portion of the player-base. Fact is, CCP are like bloodhounds when they're looking for hidden agendas and ulterior motives. Monopolizing isn't something that you really need to worry about when the ideas being proposed are bat-**** and as the developers have come to realize through -many- years of experience, a silver tongue can do nothing more than hide that agenda, but it can still be found. The job of the CPM isn't to try and weasel in your personal motives and it's easy to recognize when you are. Those that will try, if ever elected, will find a quick path to being stonewalled. ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
crazy space 1 Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 1965	Posted - 2013.11.06 07:44:00 - [143] - Quote Spademan wrote: Any chance of giving the CPM a bit more leaniency on the NDAs? THIS CCP you need to do what you said you would and be transparent. It's ok if features need to get cut and we as the playerbase shouldn't get 1st peek. But why won't you show us work done on the commander mode? We know it was once only 3 weeks from being finished. What happened to that? Just tell us allready! I mean it's cool if you never touch it again but please show us what you worked on. See what we want you to work on. Can't they lift the NDA after a few months or something?
crazy space 1 Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 1965	Posted - 2013.11.06 07:52:00 - [144] - Quote deleted...
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 627	Posted - 2013.11.06 09:06:00 - [145] - Quote Thank you for posting Dolan and clarifying a few things. o7 I hope that it brings some clearer understanding of the truth of the situation to those reading this thread. Mercenary Clone of Dennie Fleetfoot CEO of DUST University
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3586	Posted - 2013.11.06 09:31:00 - [146] - Quote CCP Dolan wrote: (P.S.- It's a little late here, so I'll let you guys do my spell checking for me ) Ok, I noticed a grammar mistake. CCP Dolan wrote: I suspect that people are falling victim to confusing "the community" for "people who talk to me". When ending a sentence with a quote, the proper grammar is to have the period within the quotations. The following is the correct grammatical approach. CCP Dolan (Revised) wrote: I suspect that people are falling victim to confusing "the community" for "people who talk to me." The same is done if there is a quotation right before a comma. Oh, and +1. Good read. Amarr faithful, join PIE Inc, the oldest EVE/Dust Amarr loyal corporation! Amarr Victor!
CEOPyrex CloneA The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 343	Posted - 2013.11.06 09:42:00 - [147] - Quote Interesting reply Dolan, shame you missed the point on quite a few of the concerns raised. (it whiffed of 'reaction' and not absorption') Alot of people are not happy with the CPM and the CSM (im amazed you deny this), given this is your actual job right, i can see why your keen to 'save' it but just go look at the forums, comments made on the video i released, hell go ask randoms what they think and you will find significant apathy and mostly disregard and suspicion to the entire CSM and CPM concept. But lets just brush all that under the carpet and continue to allow major groups to suck up to CCP lets watch players who wish to be CPM white knight for the concept (many posting right here) and bring a big old stack of agendas to the CPM so the game development benefits the few and this problem grows as people become more disgruntled with this farce.
dustwaffle The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 624	Posted - 2013.11.06 09:51:00 - [148] - Quote CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: Interesting reply Dolan, shame you missed the point on quite a few of the concerns raised. (it whiffed of 'reaction' and not absorption') Alot of people are not happy with the CPM and the CSM (im amazed you deny this), given this is your actual job right, i can see why your keen to 'save' it but just go look at the forums, comments made on the video i released, hell go ask randoms what they think and you will find significant apathy and mostly disregard and suspicion to the entire CSM and CPM concept. But lets just brush all that under the carpet and continue to allow major groups to suck up to CCP lets watch players who wish to be CPM white knight for the concept (many posting right here) and bring a big old stack of agendas to the CPM so the game development benefits the few and this problem grows as people become more disgruntled with this farce. Define 'a lot'. Like Dolan said, numbers matter. Not claims on the internet about 'majority' 'a lot' 'most of us' etc. Sure, dismiss everyone that doesn't agree with your view as 'white knighting' or 'sucking up'. Literally r3tarded
NanoCleric The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 80	Posted - 2013.11.06 09:52:00 - [149] - Quote Ivar Iosef wrote: The CPM have been working hard at reaching out to the community. I hear complaints of "vocal minority" but the truth is that if you sit in the corner and nurse your grudges to your chest, of course know one will hear you. Stand up, speak out. If you want a say in something, message a CPM to talk about it. Every game has a forum nowadays. To say "but not everyone is on the forums! It can't work!" is foolish. If you want to make your opinion known you can put in a little effort to be heard. I don't see eye to eye with every CPM, but I respect the work they have and will continue to do. They have helped CCP take an infant, stumbling game and helped it to begin crawling, if not walking yet. There is a long road ahead with the creation of the CPM White Paper, but hopefully CCP Shanghai will ignore the naysayers and fools like CCP Reykjavik once did with the CSM. I can understand what your saying, however it's not practical to expect people to come forward and express their opinions to gather a consensus on what a community wants. How many want to spend their free time clamouring over forums and being outspoken by others. The simple truth is many valuable opinions and insights hide away in those who don't come out to express them. However, if they are engaged, some real diamonds in the rough can be found. So the fact remains, that unless a platform is provided to engage with the masses to give them a simple quick means to provide their opinions, then they will just remain hidden. I can see you think everyone should be shouting their opinions out and believe everyone has access to forums etc.. but i can tell you for a fact that we've tried to get all our community members onto forums and we have close to 2k members in an alliance and only could get between 200-300 of them to actually go on the forums. That is a tiny minority in that community alone. I engaged with many players in the chat in game to find out why people aren't joining the forums and i was indeed suprised to find out just how many players do not own PC's, and only have their PS3. So we also tried to find other ways for them to access forums through phones, ps3 brower, etc... The truth is it's impractical. So i'm sorry to say but it's not foolish to say not everyone is on the forums, and i'm also sorry to have to say it's actually quite naieve to say otherwise, and i don't intend that as an attack, but you need to realise the facts behind the situation, these may be facts you were previously unaware of. All of you.. i'm sure you've all been egaged on the high streets in towns by surveys, or cold called with people wanting surveys.. none of us like to spend time doing them, and we all ignore those that are pushed to us. So sure, if we gave the community an 'in-game' means of feedback, i'm sure lots of people may just select the quickest option to bypass it. However.. if it's in-game, relevant and requires a response (not forgetting the option to abstain).. then we get mass feedback from the players. As i previously mentioned, CCP would need to be accountable for it's content so i'd advise it's run by a CCP Staff member as opposed to CPM, but if CCP were to code it in, and CPM delivered a document with the content then fair enough... but as it stands at the moment, i still can't trust a CPM who does not engage with the larger community to 'draw out' these opinions, as it becomes the voice of the minority. It is not the responsibility of the players to speak out, players just want to play a game and do have opinions, they have to be engaged to get those opinions, therefore it falls on CCP and CPM to get those opinions, and the only way to do that is to provide the 'tools' to make that as easy and quick as possible. I know i write a lot, any many skip the points i make because of that but unfortunately i find it difficult to be brief as i always feel i need to justify what i say. I write in the hope that the points i make can help push things forward.. though i have to reiterate.. until the CPM have the tools they need and do engage with others more than they do now (That's not to say work harder, just you need the tools to make it easier) .. then i simply don't believe the CPM truely 'can' represent the community's true feelings and thoughts. .. So i do still think that it should be a staff member, and to be rid of the CPM.. though i do thank them for the time they've put in thus far. ok, written enough.. though still want to say more.. you may cringe now. :)
dustwaffle The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 624	Posted - 2013.11.06 09:59:00 - [150] - Quote NanoCleric wrote: Snip AFAIK, it's not the responsibility of the CPM to come and hold your hand and 'reach out' to you. Not everyone has access to the forums? Why not? What's stopping someone from getting on a laptop/PC/smartphone/PS3 browser to come on and express their views? What's to stop them from doing it in a reasonable manner to lend more strengths to their arguments? Nothing. No one is responsible for such apathy but the players themselves.

Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 3649	Posted - 2013.11.06 10:00:00 - [151] - Quote CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: Interesting reply Dolan, shame you missed the point on quite a few of the concerns raised. (it whiffed of 'reaction' and not absorption') Alot of people are not happy with the CPM and the CSM (im amazed you deny this), given this is your actual job right, i can see why your keen to 'save' it but just go look at the forums, comments made on the video i released, hell go ask randoms what they think and you will find significant apathy and mostly disregard and suspicion to the entire CSM and CPM concept. But lets just brush all that under the carpet and continue to allow major groups to suck up to CCP lets watch players who wish to be CPM white knight for the concept (many posting right here) and bring a big old stack of agendas to the CPM so the game development benefits the few and this problem grows as people become more disgruntled with this farce. What are the issues you want addressed, assuming that the CPM is not a factor, than? NanoCleric wrote: So the fact remains, that unless a platform is provided to engage with the masses to give them a simple quick means to provide their opinions, then they will just remain hidden. Since Closed Beta, I've received an opportunity to fill out three surveys via e-mail about the state of Dust 514 and CCP as a whole. It's entirely anonymous and I can express my opinions and views, in depth, without fear of recursive disregard of disapproval by my peers here on the forums. This is an excellent step in the right direction but I feel that they should send these surveys out a bit more frequently. ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
NanoCleric The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 81	Posted - 2013.11.06 10:07:00 - [152] - Quote dustwaffle wrote: NanoCleric wrote: Snip AFAIK, it's not the responsibility of the CPM to come and hold your hand and 'reach out' to you. Not everyone has access to the forums? Why not? What's stopping someone from getting on a laptop/PC/smartphone/PS3 browser to come on and express their views? What's to stop them from doing it in a reasonable manner to lend more strengths to their arguments? Nothing. No one is responsible for such apathy but the players themselves. Sorry you obviously didn't read the whole lot, some people don't own the media to be able to get on the forums, many others as you say.. due to apathy don't want to. Though as i also said, that doesn't mean they don't have valuable opinions which should be heard. Companies should provide the means to get feedback if they want it.. it's not on the client to do it. Do you keep getting in touch with your ISP letting them know your happy with your service but if they just changed this one thing you'd be happier? Do you contact your tv provider and let them know if they just gave you this one channel you want and removed 4 others then you'd be much happier? Do you bother getting in touch with anyone? :) .... Think about it.. So sorry, you and i have to agree to disagree.... and it's precisely that premise which is the whole point. People have different opinions and they need to be sought out. So many players will be ignorant that this is even going on.. so many don't know who the CPM are, so many don't even know we have a CPM or what it is. i.e. it's always on the company to approach the client, not vice versa... and if they don't own a PC, do you think they are going to find their nearest netcafe just to express an opinion... come on.. wake up. Either way though, your entitled to your opinion.
G Torq ALTA B2O 261	Posted - 2013.11.06 10:07:00 - [153] - Quote jenza aranda wrote: my skype is .... There, all respect just gone .... Why are you even reading this?
Tech De Ra Electronic Sports League 137	Posted - 2013.11.06 10:10:00 - [154] - Quote G Torq wrote: jenza aranda wrote: my skype is .... There, all respect just gone .... Don't deny it, you also have skype >:3 Tech De Ra // Electronic Sports League Games Co-ordinator
NanoCleric The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 83	Posted - 2013.11.06 10:15:00 - [155] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Since Closed Beta, I've received an opportunity to fill out three surveys via e-mail about the state of Dust 514 and CCP as a whole. It's entirely anonymous and I can express my opinions and views, in depth, without fear of recursive disregard of disapproval by my peers here on the forums. This is an excellent step in the right direction but I feel that they should send these surveys out a bit more frequently. I wholeheartedly agree, i've also had these surveys and filled them out, however... we have to take into consideration two other factors on this. (1) We are playing a PS3 game, and as i've previously stated.. i was alarmed to find out just how many people didn't own PC's, so checking their mail would be difficult. (2) Even for those who do have PC's, nowadays a lot of spam gets through, and yes we can use filters for those of us who know enough to set them up, but there are many who don't know a lot about computing and may just delete that mail amongst other spam if they've not checked their mailbox for a while. So although yes it's great we get them, and yes if we were contacted more frequently it would be greater still... though i reiterate.. how much more frequent would it be, and how many more players would it engage if it was done through a tab on the update screen in game. That's a solution there... Might not be the ideal way, it could be adapted for sure... But there's a way to get the required engagement. Also to ensure that those who are totally unaware of the CPM and all these issues become aware. Perhaps even add in an interface option to post a message/petition to a CPM mailbox 'ingame'. What i've been saying this whole time is that the CPM can't represent a whole community if many have not been contacted and don't even know who they are. If they can't represent the whole community then they don't represent the community. Which is why i maintain it's easier to do this kind of thing in-house.. meaning within CCP. I'm hoping i don't have to post again, i've tried to clarify what i've said plenty, if people just take the time to read the explanations.
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 3651	Posted - 2013.11.06 10:23:00 - [156] - Quote NanoCleric wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Since Closed Beta, I've received an opportunity to fill out three surveys via e-mail about the state of Dust 514 and CCP as a whole. It's entirely anonymous and I can express my opinions and views, in depth, without fear of recursive disregard of disapproval by my peers here on the forums. This is an excellent step in the right direction but I feel that they should send these surveys out a bit more frequently. I wholeheartedly agree, i've also had these surveys and filled them out, however... we have to take into consideration two other factors on this. (1) We are playing a PS3 game, and as i've previously stated.. i was alarmed to find out just how many people didn't own PC's, so checking their mail would be difficult. (2) Even for those who do have PC's, nowadays a lot of spam gets through, and yes we can use filters for those of us who know enough to set them up, but there are many who don't know a lot about computing and may just delete that mail amongst other spam if they've not checked their mailbox for a while. So although yes it's great we get them, and yes if we were contacted more frequently it would be greater still... though i reiterate.. how much more frequent would it be, and how many more players would it engage if it was done through a tab on the update screen in game. That's a solution there... Might not be the ideal way, it could be adapted for sure... But there's a way to get the required engagement. Also to ensure that those who are totally unaware of the CPM and all these issues become aware. Perhaps even add in an interface option to post a message/petition to a CPM mailbox 'ingame'. What i've been saying this whole time is that the CPM can't represent a whole community if many have not been contacted and don't even know who they are. If they can't represent the whole community then they don't represent the community. Which is why i maintain it's easier to do this kind of thing in-house.. meaning within CCP. I'm hoping i don't have to post again, i've tried to clarify what i've said plenty, if people just take the time to read the explanations. You know, CCP raRaRa (best dev ever btw) on Monday made it so that PS3 browsers had access to the Dust 514 forums. The only thing left to do there is increase awareness of it, the option is available to everyone now. I think we should advocate this ^_^ ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
NanoCleric The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 84	Posted - 2013.11.06 10:28:00 - [157] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: You know, CCP raRaRa (best dev ever btw) on Monday made it so that PS3 browsers had access to the Dust 514 forums. The only thing left to do there is increase awareness of it, the option is available to everyone now. I think we should advocate this ^_^ I wasn't aware of that, the last time we tried to do it, we ended up faffing around and it wouldn't work. That's good to know.. and again, these kind of things people don't suddenly become aware of, if there was a link in game to the forums (again if there is one.. i've not seen it) ... then that would aid feedback. Though, forums are not the nicest way of getting feedback, just look at this thread for an example... how much jibber jabber needs to be filtered to get anything useful. There has to be a cleaner platform via the ingame interface to make it 'easy' for people as i've previously said..
dustwaffle The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 625	Posted - 2013.11.06 10:35:00 - [158] - Quote NanoCleric wrote: dustwaffle wrote: NanoCleric wrote: Snip AFAIK, it's not the responsibility of the CPM to come and hold your hand and 'reach out' to you. Not everyone has access to the forums? Why not? What's stopping someone from getting on a laptop/PC/smartphone/PS3 browser to come on and express their views? What's to stop them from doing it in a reasonable manner to lend more strengths to their arguments? Nothing. No one is responsible for such apathy but the players themselves. Sorry you obviously didn't read the whole lot, some people don't own the media to be able to get on the forums, many others as you say.. due to apathy don't want to. Though as i also said, that doesn't mean they don't have valuable opinions which should be heard. Companies should provide the means to get feedback if they want it.. it's not on the client to do it. Do you keep getting in touch with your ISP letting them know your happy with your service but if they just changed this one thing you'd be happier? Do you contact your tv provider and let them know if they just gave you this one channel you want and removed 4 others then you'd be much happier? Do you bother getting in touch with anyone? :) .... Think about it.. So sorry, you and i have to agree to disagree.... and it's precisely that premise which is the whole point. People have different opinions and they need to be sought out. So many players will be ignorant that this is even going on.. so many don't know who the CPM are, so many don't even know we have a CPM or what it is. i.e. it's always on the company to approach the client, not vice versa... and if they don't own a PC, do you think they are going to find their nearest netcafe just to express an opinion... come on.. wake up. Either way though, your entitled to your opinion. While I understand your point about some people not owning media to access the internet, the likelihood of that is extremely small. Going by my personal experience, pretty much most people I know have a smartphone or tablet, even if they don't have a PC/Laptop. At the very least, there's always the PS3 browser which works to an extent. Final thing about this point you make, if there exists a portion of players that do not have access to the forums, to email, and yet are able to play an ONLINE ONLY game, what method would you suggest to reach out to them? Post? About the apathetic players with 'valuable' insights: No one can change their mindsets, and if they're apathetic about the game, yet have such valuable insights, it's not down to CCP or the CPM to personally interview each of them. What do you propose for us and CCP to get their valuable insights off them? From what I've seen, CCP DOES provide the means, via the forums, and surveys sent to email addresses of the playerbase. While I do agree that such things are infrequent, they are there, and it's on the players themselves to utilize them. For example, Person A is a student and does not own a laptop/PC/smartphone. If Person A wants to voice an opinion, how would he do it? Possibly utilize facilities provided by school/uni/college? Person B is employed/has own business. Smartphones nowadays are not so prohibitively expensive that said person cannot afford to get one, especially if he gets paid a salary or has some form of income. If Person B doesn't make enough to afford something like this, which I agree are considered as luxuries, then probably they should get their priorities sorted instead of getting worked up about not having their opinions heard regarding a video game. Finally, Person C is unemployed and not a student. Well, same as B, get priorities sorted. Playing video games is a luxury, not a basic right. Regarding whether I actively provide feedback to my ISP/Cable TV provider etc. No, of course I don't, but when something isn't working right, I do write in/call up to give them feedback/complaints. Customer satisfaction surveys are not all that common, despite what you may think, and it's down to the consumer to voice their own feedback if they are not satisfied with a product or service. If you can't be bothered to do so, then obviously it's not affecting you that much, and if it were, then you would make an effort (by you, I don't mean YOU personally).
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 3651	Posted - 2013.11.06 10:48:00 - [159] - Quote NanoCleric wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: You know, CCP raRaRa (best dev ever btw) on Monday made it so that PS3 browsers had access to the Dust 514 forums. The only thing left to do there is increase awareness of it, the option is available to everyone now. I think we should advocate this ^_^ I wasn't aware of that, the last time we tried to do it, we ended up faffing around and it wouldn't work. That's good to know.. and again, these kind of things people don't suddenly become aware of, if there was a link in game to the forums (again if there is one.. i've not seen it) ... then that would aid feedback. Though, forums are not the nicest way of getting feedback, just look at this thread for an example... how much jibber jabber needs to be filtered to get anything useful. There has to be a cleaner platform via the ingame interface to make it 'easy' for people as i've previously said.. I don't think it gets much easier than that, unfortunately. ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
NanoCleric The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 87	Posted - 2013.11.06 10:53:00 - [160] - Quote it can be done through the ps3 in game via the interface, so yes it can be made even easier. I don't want to drone on and on... it's all in that sentence i just wrote. I'm a game programmer myself, i know it can be done. If i worked for CCP then i'd even tell them i'd code it up... Though don't get me wrong on that... i really don't want to work for CCP, very happy where i am.

Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1624	Posted - 2013.11.06 11:29:00 - [161] - Quote Sorry Dolan but i see it different, very different CPM gets very personal if you disagree with them, they back certain playstyles and try to crush others (vehicles is a very good example), actions speak louder than words and i have seen said actions benefit the corps and alliances they play for Most players i know frankly dont give a **** about the CPM, they dont know what they do let alone who they actually are and frankly they do not impact on anything in the game, if anything actually changes its because of the mass amount of threads on the forums and eventually CCP gets around to changing it Frankly the CM like Saberwing/Logibro and even mintchip do more than the entire CPM put together, this is due to being on the payroll i believe CCP may still try to make the puppets dance in front of the community and one day hope thats it turns out to be like the CSM but atm the CPM has no power or influence and doesnt represent the community at all and to say that it does is lies As for complaining about the toxicity of the thread i will point you in the direction of the CPM

CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 3284	Posted - 2013.11.06 11:33:00 - [162] - Quote One thing I'll just point out is all the CPM members can be reached via their in game mail boxes. You can quite easily send a mail to all of them at once. CCP Logibro // EVE Universe Community Team // Distributor of Nanites // Patron Saint of Logistics

Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 3658	Posted - 2013.11.06 11:34:00 - [163] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: CPM gets very personal if you disagree with them, they back certain playstyles and try to crush others (vehicles is a very good example), actions speak louder than words and i have seen said actions benefit the corps and alliances they play for This is why Betamax is such a prominent PC corporation, ladies and gentlemen. ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1624	Posted - 2013.11.06 11:37:00 - [164] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: CPM gets very personal if you disagree with them, they back certain playstyles and try to crush others (vehicles is a very good example), actions speak louder than words and i have seen said actions benefit the corps and alliances they play for This is why Betamax is such a prominent PC corporation, ladies and gentlemen. In the early days yes they were, CRONOS was king, betamax was in CRONOS awoxing and locking up all districts along with the rest of CRONOS Then jenza run off with the corp wallet and disappeared for months after CRONOS fell
Tech De Ra Electronic Sports League 141	Posted - 2013.11.06 11:40:00 - [165] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: CPM gets very personal if you disagree with them, they back certain playstyles and try to crush others (vehicles is a very good example), actions speak louder than words and i have seen said actions benefit the corps and alliances they play for This is why Betamax is such a prominent PC corporation, ladies and gentlemen. In the early days yes they were, CRONOS was king, betamax was in CRONOS awoxing and locking up all districts along with the rest of CRONOS Then jenza run off with the corp wallet and disappeared for months after CRONOS fell Jenza went to japan for a few months vOv Tech De Ra // Electronic Sports League Games Co-ordinator
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1624	Posted - 2013.11.06 11:41:00 - [166] - Quote Tech De Ra wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: CPM gets very personal if you disagree with them, they back certain playstyles and try to crush others (vehicles is a very good example), actions speak louder than words and i have seen said actions benefit the corps and alliances they play for This is why Betamax is such a prominent PC corporation, ladies and gentlemen. In the early days yes they were, CRONOS was king, betamax was in CRONOS awoxing and locking up all districts along with the rest of CRONOS Then jenza run off with the corp wallet and disappeared for months after CRONOS fell Jenza went to japan for a few months vOv Same thing
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 3658	Posted - 2013.11.06 11:48:00 - [167] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: CPM gets very personal if you disagree with them, they back certain playstyles and try to crush others (vehicles is a very good example), actions speak louder than words and i have seen said actions benefit the corps and alliances they play for This is why Betamax is such a prominent PC corporation, ladies and gentlemen. In the early days yes they were, CRONOS was king, betamax was in CRONOS awoxing and locking up all districts along with the rest of CRONOS Then jenza run off with the corp wallet and disappeared for months after CRONOS fell I think there'd be a lot more consistency if that were the case. If you want real conspiracy theories that were actually made flesh, go look into the t20 scandal and compare it to what we have now-a-days. This is why CCP has an internal affairs department and you're 100% free to send them a mail if you legitimately suspect foul play. And, if memory serves, the capability to AWOX was very quickly nerfed there after. Even then, I think there should be more opportunities to take a corporation out from the inside as it's pretty difficult what with our PSN IDs freely available to anyone who can hit 'Gû¦'. It takes away a lot of what Eve Online is, where danger can come from anywhere. ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
NanoCleric The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 87	Posted - 2013.11.06 12:09:00 - [168] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: One thing I'll just point out is all the CPM members can be reached via their in game mail boxes. You can quite easily send a mail to all of them at once. Agreed that it's nice to have that ability and while 'we' may be aware of that, what about those who are not checking forums and those who don't know who the CPM are or aren't even aware we have a CPM? The forum and e-mails can't be your be-all and end-all of customer engagement if you want broad feedback. I've already explained how even with our small segment of 2k of your playerbase, we could only get 200-300 of those on these forums and our own forums. If you truely want feedback from the masses, then there are technical means and ways which guarentee you engage 'all' players, not just those who seek it out. Believe me, i trust that your doing a lot at the moment, but i've already explained a means by which you can engage with more players. I also know you will have competant coders who would also agree it can be done. If you want the CPM to represent the community, give them the tools they need to engage 'everyone' via in-game feedback. Either a CCP staff member or CPM could update the content of a splash interface on the update screen, either requesting feedback on something in the form of radial selection, checkboxes or a short typed response. Which can then all be collated and discussed. You can also provide a petitioning system in the game so people can send other written comments back under different subcategories. This is not a *****, this is not a whinge, this is not a troll, it's positive critisim on the ways and means you are currently using with proposed viable solutions which can be considered and adapted to increase performance, feedback rate and opinions over a broader spectrum. Because the truth is that the CPM don't represent us all, they don't represent me, or anyone else who hasn't engaged with them.. At the moment people only have the option to contact them if they are aware of them, i'm aware of them and i opt not to seek them out as i have other things to do, whereas if i had a screen asking me for my opinion on something when i log on, sure i'll spend a few moments to type in my opinion or select an option. Also despite being aware of them, i may have opted not to contact them, but neither have any of them reached out to me in any media i regularaly check. So just realize how many others have not engaged with them too. This is logical, technically possible, feasible for increasing consumer contact and credible for helping to steer the game the way players would love to see it go.

CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 3291	Posted - 2013.11.06 16:56:00 - [169] - Quote NanoCleric wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: One thing I'll just point out is all the CPM members can be reached via their in game mail boxes. You can quite easily send a mail to all of them at once. Agreed that it's nice to have that ability and while 'we' may be aware of that, what about those who are not checking forums and those who don't know who the CPM are or aren't even aware we have a CPM? The forum and e-mails can't be your be-all and end-all of customer engagement if you want broad feedback. I've already explained how even with our small segment of 2k of your playerbase, we could only get 200-300 of those on these forums and our own forums. If you truely want feedback from the masses, then there are technical means and ways which guarentee you engage 'all' players, not just those who seek it out. Believe me, i trust that your doing a lot at the moment, but i've already explained a means by which you can engage with more players. I also know you will have competant coders who would also agree it can be done. If you want the CPM to represent the community, give them the tools they need to engage 'everyone' via in-game feedback. Either a CCP staff member or CPM could update the content of a splash interface on the update screen, either requesting feedback on something in the form of radial selection, checkboxes or a short typed response. Which can then all be collated and discussed. You can also provide a petitioning system in the game so people can send other written comments back under different subcategories. This is not a *****, this is not a whinge, this is not a troll, it's positive critisim on the ways and means you are currently using with proposed viable solutions which can be considered and adapted to increase performance, feedback rate and opinions over a broader spectrum. Because the truth is that the CPM don't represent us all, they don't represent me, or anyone else who hasn't engaged with them.. At the moment people only have the option to contact them if they are aware of them, i'm aware of them and i opt not to seek them out as i have other things to do, whereas if i had a screen asking me for my opinion on something when i log on, sure i'll spend a few moments to type in my opinion or select an option. Also despite being aware of them, i may have opted not to contact them, but neither have any of them reached out to me in any media i regularaly check. So just realize how many others have not engaged with them too. This is logical, technically possible, feasible for increasing consumer contact and credible for helping to steer the game the way players would love to see it go. There are two problems with this system that I can see from first glance. First is that if you put in people's faces then their prone to get very annoyed. Some people just want to hop on and play some games, and being badgered by a questionnaire is something they won't want. And if you don't essentially force it in front of their faces, then you don't get the widespread exposure that you're talking about as most people will never even notice it exists. The second thing is that not everyone has experience with everything in the game, and thus their feedback isn't as useful on those particular issues. For example, if we're looking for feedback on HAVs then we would want to get specific feedback from those that pilot them and those that usually destroy them (Heavy frames with forge guns, anyone that runs swarm lauchers a lot), not average clone in an assault suit with a scrambler rifle. Yes, we'll want their feedback too (generally on their vulnerability to HAVs or lack thereof), but they're not going to be able to tell me that the handling for the Soma is wonky when going down hills making it prone to veering off course, or that forge guns need the charge reticule moved to the crosshair as having it on the ammo gauge make it harder to maintain awareness of your current charge state. We often go to the CPM for expert opinions on subjects, and either the CPM can supply it directly or they know exactly who to talk to get one. And while not strictly a problem, making the system you're describing would take technical resources, which could be instead spent on actually developing the game further. I'm not sure many people would trade the remaining racial heavy suits or better tutorials for in-game surveys from us. However I do think we could do a better job of publicising the CPM's existence so that people know that they do have an advocacy council they can get in contact with, and so that we get the widest possible voting base for when the CPM elections take place. CCP Logibro // EVE Universe Community Team // Distributor of Nanites // Patron Saint of Logistics

Sirpidey Adtur Aloren Foundations 94	Posted - 2013.11.06 17:08:00 - [170] - Quote I realize this will be quite scathing, but... since you decided to post a list, there are some specific points I have issues with. CCP Dolan wrote: Making claims like "a majority of the community is calling for an end to this" is blatantly false, and I would like to see any sort of stats backing up this claim. I love to see when the majority of the community agree on anything, as it usually results in great changes, but you aren't going to find a consensus to support disbanding the CPM. I suspect that people are falling victim to confusing "the community" for "people who talk to me". I do try to locate random samples of players, and I have a decent understanding of statistics. A random sample goes a lot further than most people realize. Quote: Making claims that the CSM and CPM are marketing stunts and would be better replaced by a group of the "underprivileged or disabled", is frankly pretty insulting to a myriad of groups including myself, the CSM and CPM, the community members who support the elections, and the disabled. Honestly, if the CSM or CPM was some sort of marketing endeavor, you'd be hearing a lot more about them, but I really don't have the time to show them off to the general public as both the councils and myself are busy doing actual work to improve the games. Elections? You can say that they have been elected by the community, when that is indeed true. Until then, they are not elected, they are appointed. Not that it's a bad thing that they are appointed, there are some significant advantages to that over an elected group. Quote: Making claims that the CSM is in some way corrupt and that the CPM will follow suit is also blatantly false, and shows a severe lack of understanding of how the CSM and CPM operate. In the past, members who come in to only serve specific agendas quickly disappear in to the ether of irrelevance while constructive members actually get good things done. Pushing agendas isn't how the Councils work at all. Council members are not junior game designers, they are a sounding board for CCP ideas and provide feedback on our planned upcoming features and ideas. I understand that in the past CCP has made game decisions that have made some people upset, and CSM members have taken the opportunity to troll those upset people, but there is no part of being on the council that prevents you from trolling. If anyone feels that they have evidence of real corruption or information leaks on the CSM or CPM I would appreciate you mailing both myself and Internal Affairs so it can be properly dealt with. Keep in mind people are pretty much playing a corruption simulator. And people who are smart who have an agenda will hide it. What's the best way to hide it? Have other things to hide it behind. The council isn't as corrupt as people say it is, but to flat out deny corruption is just as ignorant. Quote: Making claims like "because things have not progressed as quickly as planned, the CPM project is a failure" is either just poor rhetoric or a lack of understanding of how game development and creative industries in general work. If CCP wrote off everything that did not progress as planned as a failure, then we would never have had a game, and would have remained a group of 3 programmers in Iceland. I agree somewhat with this. It's understandable for things that are programming related E.G. hit detection, the whole murder taxi thing where one collision hit infinitely and instakilled, but it's a lot less understandable when the issue's resolution is by changing about a dozen numbers in Catma. (For those that don't know, Catma is the format and database that the stats of Dust items are stored in) Quote: Finally, while I have always been open to forming large focus groups to work on particular content (as was done by Hans Jagerblitzen during his CSM time to work on Incursions), I think many people underestimate the vital nature of an NDA to the whole council process. As Logibro detailed earlier, a certain amount of the things that the CSM and CPM hear are simply not fit for public consumption. Additionally, I think many people underestimate the time commitment required of council members. If someone thinks they can rapidly form large groups of knowledgeable players, have them all enter into a legal binding NDA, not have any of the info they receive leak, and do it with a 24 hour turnaround time from the request for info to them handing in their official feedback, then you should probably apply for my job because you are a miracle worker. Yes, 24 hours is a tough limit. And yes, leaks do happen if you are careless. However, that NDA is incredibly restrictive. Though it's gotten better recently, the CSM seems to have their hands bound by this NDA, and time and time again cannot tell us anything, making themselves appear incompetant, when suddenly from the sky, a BLUETAG DEV, in all of his infinite words of wisdom declares a change will be happening. I'm pretty sure the information that needs to get to players is at least mostly getting out there, but the fact it's all from DEVs, makes it appear that the CSM is a council of silent fools who are just as uninformed as the rest of us.

Vrain Matari ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1193	Posted - 2013.11.06 17:33:00 - [171] - Quote I'm with NanoCleric on the spirit of what he's proposing. We have reached the age where all communication, community and networking tools should be accesible from the game client, and should be front and centre when a player logs in. I don't know where on the roadmap i'd put this as a priority, but fairly high up on the list seem reasonable. The reasoning behind the high priority is that it's the kind of thing we want to have in place before the full-on integration with New Eden happens. For peeps who don't come from EVE and who don't spend way too much time on the forums and googling EVE/DUST game mechanics/history/lore that transition is going to be bewildering as hell.
Baku Amad 843 Boot Camp 18	Posted - 2013.11.06 19:15:00 - [172] - Quote Honest question. How much resources would it require to add an extra "survey" tab or something of the sort that nanocleric is suggesting to the Update menu? Giving the CPM and actual in game area to request feedback in. And also maybe post some of our great stickied threads there as well. The forums only seem to hit a small portion. Of players. I see this directly as I've been in a handful of corporations so far looking for one that fits and I'm usually one of two or three people that actually look at the forums and am constantly relaying information to them.
Heinrich Jagerblitzen D3LTA FORC3 1006	Posted - 2013.11.06 19:40:00 - [173] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: I'm with NanoCleric on the spirit of what he's proposing. Me too, actually. The CPM itself has no problems at all with polling or other forms of crowdsourced feedback - its quite a powerful tool for leveraging positive change with CCP as well as making sure that our own feedback is supported by data, rather than purely anecdotal evidence. Now Jenza was the first amongst us to recommend we start polling players, but I was the one that quashed the idea initially for a few very good reasons. The first was that during the very early days of the CPM's existence, its dangerous and counterproductive to give off the idea that players can somehow vote changes into the game - and this is something I still want to warn the community will never happen. CCP always retains final say in the matter, no matter how strong the CPM fights for a measure or how much they are backed by the community. The last thing we want is more confusion about how the CPM operates (we're an advisory board with no real authority). That being said, I still think crowdsourcing is important in the long run, but under fairly specific circumstances. As a day-to-day measure, its useless. The CPM exists so that CCP can obtain ninja-fast feedback on works in progress, and polls can be quite labor intensive. Likewise, using dozens of focus groups as some have suggested is likewise too slow and ponderous to be of use to CCP, though i absolutely love using them myself to be sure that I am prepared to give the ninja fast feedback CCP needs on various topics. What I would like to do on the not-too-distant future is run perhaps two crowdsourced polls - one for major features, and one for small fixes, to create a data-reinforced prioritization recommendation directly to CCP, for the new EP to use when directing his teams and creating his own long-term roadmap. I've been in talks with Trebor Daehdoow of the CSM since the beginning of our term, and already know that the toolset he created to run the "Reasonable things" crowdsourcing project for EVE online is available for the CPM to use as well. Literally the only thing stopping me from having engaged in this effort already is the fact that up until now, we've seen little enough effort on CCP's part to make use of our feedback to justify such a massive labor-intensive project like a crowdsourcing initiative. Its a lot of work (albeit for a huge payout) and so I only want to engage in it if I know the CPM's time will be respected and put to good use by individuals in management that will take action as a result of the crowdsourcing data. Up until now that commitment from CCP has been in question - though their efforts the last several weeks have been commendable and I'm much more optimistic that such an effort will be put to use if we did it today. All that to say, I applaud NanoCleric's data-oriented and casual-orientated approach, its a type of feedback that has a lot of merit and he has our support on the CPM side. There's still more to investigate and setup before we can run this, but its something I'd very much like to do in the future. o7
Severus Smith Caldari State 416	Posted - 2013.11.06 19:43:00 - [174] - Quote Sirpidey Adtur wrote: I agree somewhat with this. It's understandable for things that are programming related E.G. hit detection, the whole murder taxi thing where one collision hit infinitely and instakilled, but it's a lot less understandable when the issue's resolution is by changing about a dozen numbers in Catma. (For those that don't know, Catma is the format and database that the stats of Dust items are stored in) Uh, you talking about CATMA? The public DNA genome sequence microarray DB CATMA? Because I work with databases and get the feeling you're throwing out big words so that you can look like an authority figure on a topic you clearly know nothing about...
DeeJay One Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 110	Posted - 2013.11.06 19:52:00 - [175] - Quote NanoCleric wrote: it can be done through the ps3 in game via the interface, so yes it can be made even easier. Because so many people are reading the initial instructions on how fittings work and so on... EDIT: OK, that came out a bit harsh. All I wanted to say that putting polls in people's faces isn't the end all solution. I, for one, would likely skip them, like I do with the bonuses screen. Many people wouldn't bother reading them.
Azri Sarum BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 112	Posted - 2013.11.06 20:28:00 - [176] - Quote DeeJay One wrote: NanoCleric wrote: it can be done through the ps3 in game via the interface, so yes it can be made even easier. Because so many people are reading the initial instructions on how fittings work and so on... EDIT: OK, that came out a bit harsh. All I wanted to say that putting polls in people's faces isn't the end all solution. I, for one, would likely skip them, like I do with the bonuses screen. Many people wouldn't bother reading them. I don't remember the exact mechanics but Star Citizens had the functionality to offer up poles to their players to gather feedback. What made it more successful than what was suggested here was that when you answered the poll you got a reward (I think it was a few units of their equivalent to aurum). Offer up the survey and give people something for completing it. 100 aurum? A few guns? 100k isk? 500 SP? The thing to keep in mind is that if CCP were to implement any kind of in client survey system, it would be purely supplemental to the feedback they get from the CPM, and from what they get on the forums. It is by no means a viable replacement. EVE - Victor Maximus DUST - Azri Sarum
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 9964	Posted - 2013.11.06 20:52:00 - [177] - Quote Azri Sarum wrote: DeeJay One wrote: NanoCleric wrote: it can be done through the ps3 in game via the interface, so yes it can be made even easier. Because so many people are reading the initial instructions on how fittings work and so on... EDIT: OK, that came out a bit harsh. All I wanted to say that putting polls in people's faces isn't the end all solution. I, for one, would likely skip them, like I do with the bonuses screen. Many people wouldn't bother reading them. I don't remember the exact mechanics but Star Citizens had the functionality to offer up poles to their players to gather feedback. What made it more successful than what was suggested here was that when you answered the poll you got a reward (I think it was a few units of their equivalent to aurum). Offer up the survey and give people something for completing it. 100 aurum? A few guns? 100k isk? 500 SP? The thing to keep in mind is that if CCP were to implement any kind of in client survey system, it would be purely supplemental to the feedback they get from the CPM, and from what they get on the forums. It is by no means a viable replacement. Star conflict uses polls too rather poorly Star Conflict Poll wrote: What are you doing this summer? Playing star conflict summer vacation *something else CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier Specialist Current Theme \\= Advanced Plasma Rifle =// Unlocked
Sirpidey Adtur Aloren Foundations 96	Posted - 2013.11.06 21:14:00 - [178] - Quote Severus Smith wrote: Sirpidey Adtur wrote: I agree somewhat with this. It's understandable for things that are programming related E.G. hit detection, the whole murder taxi thing where one collision hit infinitely and instakilled, but it's a lot less understandable when the issue's resolution is by changing about a dozen numbers in Catma. (For those that don't know, Catma is the format and database that the stats of Dust items are stored in) Uh, you talking about CATMA? The public DNA genome sequence microarray DB CATMA? Because I work with databases and get the feeling you're throwing out big words so that you can look like an authority figure on a topic you clearly know nothing about... The EVE online database is known as Dogma. The dust database was named Catma as a sort of joke. Take a look at the dust EVE vegas stream. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=40zjfBk5vEE#t=434 Any relations to existing databases is coincidental. I know what I'm talking about.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 481	Posted - 2013.11.06 23:27:00 - [179] - Quote I think Dogma is not so much the database, as the object tree and algorithms used to turn a character + fit + environment into actual attribute values. tldr not a database, but a model. "Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)" GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
Sirpidey Adtur Aloren Foundations 96	Posted - 2013.11.07 00:30:00 - [180] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: I think Dogma is not so much the database, as the object tree and algorithms used to turn a character + fit + environment into actual attribute values. tldr not a database, but a model. First, I think you mean Catma, not dogma. Second, calculating all of the things I believe is the system known as "STIMS" Though I am far from certain. Catma is simply where item stats are stored, simple as that.

Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 3663	Posted - 2013.11.07 07:19:00 - [181] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: There are two problems with this system that I can see from first glance. First is that if you put in people's faces then their prone to get very annoyed. Some people just want to hop on and play some games, and being badgered by a questionnaire is something they won't want. And if you don't essentially force it in front of their faces, then you don't get the widespread exposure that you're talking about as most people will never even notice it exists. What about those ads that you see on the side of the screen in the Mercenary Quarters? Yanno, the ones that show the Drop Uplink and random NPC corp advertisements or even the 'Orbital Strike: The Only Way to Be Sure'? I mean, it wouldn't be hard to come up with a small graphic that shows something like: CPM - Make Your Voice Heard! or something to that extent. Not everyone looks at it but it's not in your face, it's there for when you're idling between matches and all. ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 632	Posted - 2013.11.07 08:15:00 - [182] - Quote Sirpidey Adtur wrote: SponkSponkSponk wrote: I think Dogma is not so much the database, as the object tree and algorithms used to turn a character + fit + environment into actual attribute values. tldr not a database, but a model. First, I think you mean Catma, not dogma. Second, calculating all of the things I believe is the system known as "STIMS" Though I am far from certain. Catma is simply where item stats are stored, simple as that. Edit Upon later inspection, it seems you may be completely correct. In EVE, Dogma is not only the system for holding item values, but also the system for applying those values. I sense that this a little beyond the Sinclair Basic I grew up using on my ZX80, 81 and Spectrum... Mercenary Clone of Dennie Fleetfoot CEO of DUST University
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 698	Posted - 2013.11.07 08:25:00 - [183] - Quote CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: I would like to reiterate my point, the CPM has not worked and CCP themselves have stated thus at the start of this thread. Q&As, alliance chats and the like are not the issue, its a puppet show of a group of people who are both powerless and universally disregarded therefore why persist in trying to make this work? Calling time on it right now before it perpetuates and becomes like the CSM where people are turning up with an agenda of their own to benefit the few is a massive risk to the commercial success of this game. Already the community is polarised around this topic and the attitudes shown are frankly unprofessional and disrespectful of the granted position that was given. What makes it worse is the frankly shameful way the CPM are digging their fingernails into the door frame as the community collectively calls for this to end. CCP your marketing gimmick is backfiring, perhaps its time to act before this becomes the news story...... +1 I never liked the concept of the CSM in EVE. Down with the CPM/CSM. If the pen is mightier than the sword, in a duel I'll let you have the pen! -Steven Wright
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 3664	Posted - 2013.11.07 09:14:00 - [184] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: I would like to reiterate my point, the CPM has not worked and CCP themselves have stated thus at the start of this thread. Q&As, alliance chats and the like are not the issue, its a puppet show of a group of people who are both powerless and universally disregarded therefore why persist in trying to make this work? Calling time on it right now before it perpetuates and becomes like the CSM where people are turning up with an agenda of their own to benefit the few is a massive risk to the commercial success of this game. Already the community is polarised around this topic and the attitudes shown are frankly unprofessional and disrespectful of the granted position that was given. What makes it worse is the frankly shameful way the CPM are digging their fingernails into the door frame as the community collectively calls for this to end. CCP your marketing gimmick is backfiring, perhaps its time to act before this becomes the news story...... +1 I never liked the concept of the CSM in EVE. Down with the CPM/CSM. Should try running with them sometime. You might change your mind. ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
dinkum tachyglossus Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2013.11.07 09:33:00 - [185] - Quote I will not use the CPM because.... its a free to play GAME. Why would I bother emailing someone who will filter my thoughts before passing them onto CCP when I already have enough channels that I feel are more direct, open for peer review and comment. I am a casual player, who just wants to have a bit of fun and a distraction for awhile. If I feel the game is not to my liking I will simply find another. CCP should perhaps concentrate on improving more direct in-game communication with me.
iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 1190	Posted - 2013.11.07 12:05:00 - [186] - Quote Customer interaction with CCP is part of the CCP experience. And in my opinion its whats makes CCP a good game developer, because they go beyond the "heres the product - now don't bother me again". CPM and CSM arn't going anywhere, if you want to be one (free trip to iceland, look at future developments) work for it, if not. Ignore it. Or vote. Belly aching doesn't solve anything.
godhands9 Ancient Exiles 127	Posted - 2013.11.07 12:38:00 - [187] - Quote There is people who have been playing this game since the begning that have more to offer than most.thats for sure.
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 632	Posted - 2013.11.07 14:32:00 - [188] - Quote If your reason for going for CPM or the CSM is a free trip to Iceland and a look at stuff early, you shouldnt be anywhere NEAR the job. You'll last about 5 minutes. Mercenary Clone of Dennie Fleetfoot CEO of DUST University
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 3665	Posted - 2013.11.07 17:37:00 - [189] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: If your reason for going for CPM or the CSM is a free trip to Iceland and a look at stuff early, you shouldnt be anywhere NEAR the job. You'll last about 5 minutes. True story. We had this in the previous CSM and the better members of the CSM went straight for the juggular and even suggested a few new rules to limit the abuse of this. ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 1191	Posted - 2013.11.08 10:00:00 - [190] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: If your reason for going for CPM or the CSM is a free trip to Iceland and a look at stuff early, you shouldnt be anywhere NEAR the job. Ofcourse not. Why would you assume thats literally what I meant, given the tone of the entire post. Strange.

Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 642	Posted - 2013.11.08 15:41:00 - [191] - Quote No disrespect intended or pointed to you. o7 I was merely commenting on a popular misconception that's been prevalent about the CSM and now the CPM that all it is just a free trip to Iceland once a year. There's a lot of work involved. Emailing, video conferencing to different time zones, forum watching being on call to speak to Dev's at pretty much the drop of the hat. It takes a special kind of sadomasochism to do it. Particularly when you get abuse from the players you're trying to help. Mercenary Clone of Dennie Fleetfoot CEO of DUST University
Vell0cet Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 517	Posted - 2013.11.08 15:54:00 - [192] - Quote First let me say I'm happy to see CCP taking the role of the CPM seriously. I've not been happy with many of the CPM's lack of visibility in communicating with the community. When people make podcasts to have discussions with the CPM and only a few bother to show up, or don't try to schedule another one at a time they can participate, that is frustrating. Some CPM have been vocal on the forums, and have done a good job interacting the community. I had the pleasure of having Nova Knife randomly join a public squad I was in, and played a couple of hours with him. He was asking about our feedback and things we want to see change. It was a lot of fun. I think more CPM members should make an effort to follow Nova Knife's example and use the squad finder to squad up with random players in public squads to hear what people have to say that may not be active on the forums. Squad finder is a powerful tool for this kind of thing. @Pyrex I really enjoy your Kicking Dust videos, and appreciate the hard work, time and effort you put into making them. DUST is a better community because they exist. Having said that, I think you're completely wrong on this particular topic. Despite my frustrations with some of the CPM, and the way CCP makes it difficult for them to communicate in the ways they should, I think DUST is probably much better off with them there than without them. My frustration with the CPM doesn't mean I want to see it go away, I want to see it continue to get better. You certainly don't speak for me in this regard. I have no personal agenda besides seeing DUST get better where all suits/roles/vehicles/weapons are fun to use, balanced, able to be countered, etc. I want to see a uhuge variety of suit/vehicle fits and weapons in every fight, that will be my barometer for DUST's progress. I'm not white-knighting either; I have no intention of ever running for CPM or trying to get a job at CCP. I just want to see DUST live up to its potential. Having a solid CPM in place is an important component in this. I also think you're mischaracterizing the CSM. There are many on there (like Trebor) who work their asses off, and EVE is a much better game for their efforts. Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 3676	Posted - 2013.11.08 18:03:00 - [193] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: No disrespect intended or pointed to you. o7 I was merely commenting on a popular misconception that's been prevalent about the CSM and now the CPM that all it is just a free trip to Iceland once a year. There's a lot of work involved. Emailing, video conferencing to different time zones, forum watching being on call to speak to Dev's at pretty much the drop of the hat. It takes a special kind of sadomasochism to do it. Particularly when you get abuse from the players you're trying to help. Even bigger misconception if you think you're going to Iceland when working with a studio that operates in Shanghai, lol. Made this mistake once back in May, so I can't jump people for it Nah, it's actually kind of a huge misconception that they get shipped anywhere, honestly. I don't think the CPM has summits like the CSM. Rather, they operate almost entirely on Skype. ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
jenza aranda BetaMax. 2034	Posted - 2013.11.09 19:38:00 - [194] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: First let me say I'm happy to see CCP taking the role of the CPM seriously. I had the pleasure of having Nova Knife randomly join a public squad I was in, and played a couple of hours with him. He was asking about our feedback and things we want to see change. It was a lot of fun. I think more CPM members should make an effort to follow Nova Knife's example and use the squad finder to squad up with random players in public squads to hear what people have to say that may not be active on the forums. Squad finder is a powerful tool for this kind of thing. I also have been doing this quite a lot the last week or so, just pick a random squad in the finder to join or list one myself. Dust 514 101 // Dust 514 Wiki
CEOPyrex CloneA The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 384	Posted - 2013.11.12 12:12:00 - [195] - Quote For a game with around 2k a day active players, an ideas forum, developers talking directly to the community and providing excellent comms all round i do not see the point of the CPM anymore. My 'stance' has produced a flurry of opinion around this topic and dialogue is always good but i still see many people supporting the CPM as an opportunity to become part of some 'Illuminati' club and spoon with CCP. Even without an agenda, this is pretty sad and creates a two tier player base, hence the resentment that has spawned on this matter over the year. I will watch this 'concept' with interest while quietly noting those who are obviously looking to become CPM (many in this thread alone) as I suspect when/if the 'elections' begin, we will rekindle this topic once more.
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 3700	Posted - 2013.11.12 12:28:00 - [196] - Quote CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: For a game with around 2k a day active players, an ideas forum, developers talking directly to the community and providing excellent comms all round i do not see the point of the CPM anymore. My 'stance' has produced a flurry of opinion around this topic and dialogue is always good but i still see many people supporting the CPM as an opportunity to become part of some 'Illuminati' club and spoon with CCP. Even without an agenda, this is pretty sad and creates a two tier player base, hence the resentment that has spawned on this matter over the year. I will watch this 'concept' with interest while quietly noting those who are obviously looking to become CPM (many in this thread alone) as I suspect when/if the 'elections' begin, we will rekindle this topic once more. It's a bit more than two thousand, sir. http://eve-offline.net/?server=dust And as far as your stance producing a flurry of opinion - it's important to remember that this entire paragraph - "My 'stance' has produced a flurry of opinion around this topic and dialogue is always good but i still see many people supporting the CPM as an opportunity to become part of some 'Illuminati' club and spoon with CCP. Even without an agenda, this is pretty sad and creates a two tier player base, hence the resentment that has spawned on this matter over the year." - is also an opinion. One big, giant opinion. That 'resentment' has no basis and not legitimate evidence of it's existence, other than your word. You have not shown stats, votes or general consensus that this is the view of the greater majority. There are no riots taking place in game over this issue and there certainly are not articles regarding it on Eve24 or TheMittani. and what's even more pitiful than your shoddy attempt to dislodge the health of the community for the sake of your own agenda (this is starting to sound like a starburst commercial) is the fact that there is no justifiable reason for doing such beyond petty paranoia. You have YET to bring forth a justifiable reason that we don't need a CPM. All in all your shenanigans and attempts to sound intellectual, prophetic and dignified are painting a different picture of a player who is appealing to the least common denominator by appealing to gullibility with false claims, with little to no backing and an almost cultish demeanor by trying to say that there is some vast conspiracy between developer and consumer over a ******* video game. Just as well, if and when those members of the CPM are elected in, it will be solely because the majority of the people you claim to discourage the existence of the CPM, voted for them. So let that sink in for a second because you can't argue it both ways - they're either a conspiracy theory, complete with behind-the-curtains meetings about how to shift the game balance in their favor... or they're discouraging the CPM entirely and are likely not to even bother voting them in. So which is it, because obviously there has to be a majority in one or the other yet you claim that the majority are both. ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 487	Posted - 2013.11.12 15:19:00 - [197] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: I'm going to start off with a quick statement: The CPM has been nothing short of absolutely stellar. The times we have been able to use them as the resource that they were supposed to be has resulted in amazing feedback and progress. To everyone that believes that they have been doing very little, I would beg to differ and I would believe it completely disingenuous to call them useless. They have made themselves available at nearly any time we ask, ready to give instant feedback on any and everything. Yes it's behind closed doors at the moment, but that's the NDA - it's a double edged sword. While the NDA prevents the CPM from telling the wider community a large number of things, what it does do is allow us to run raw ideas and sanity check crazy proposals without fear of the larger community taking it the wrong way. A number of truly ridiculous ideas have made it to the cutting room floor with the help of the CPM, and some excellent ideas have been proposed by them, been expanded by the development teams and actually borne fruit. There is absolutely no way that many of the details that we have shared with them so early would be disseminated among the wider public, as the ideas are too raw and unrefined to be ready for mass feedback. Doing so would result is a vast sea of half-built responses that would inundate the development teams, drowning out the well planned responses in a swarm of half-baked ideas due to a lack of a solid base for people to give feedback on. The CPM is meant to be an advocacy council taking issues they see from the player base and raising them with us. They're also an amazing sanity check for our plans. While many of you can't see the impact they're making, trust me when I say that while we haven't always been giving them the support they deserve, they have been putting in mountains of work. But they do not dictate development. They act merely in an advisory capacity, and the final call will always remain in CCPGÇÖs hands. Infact, I have seen instances where CPM members have stated that their preferred play styles need to be nerfed for the good of the game. The reaction that many of you are having right now is exactly the same reaction EVE players had when the CSM was first formed. Over many years they have had the ability to prove themselves as CCP has grown to include them as part of the development process. The CPM wonGÇÖt integrate overnight, but we do need to put more work into it. We can make it work, and we are committed to making it work. I am not really sure you understand the complexity of the problem the CPM has right now. Players want a charter and elections, while CCP wants feedback before the fact to get the ball rolling on development. As has been stated previously by at least one user post, the CPM is not representative of the community as a whole. They have a direct line of communication which can be useful only if ideas are brought through them, which could have both a positive and negative effect if that filter for ideas (cutting room floor) decides they don't like your idea for whatever reason. All that is beside the point, their one job was to get the lines of communication in order so that a fair democratic style process could begin. You are lauding their efforts at making your job easier yet you fail to see that there are quite a few people that have come out of CB or OB that would be more than willing to be part of the process that you have shortened to your handpicked few "special ones" that in all reality do not have a wide enough pool of experience for you to swim in. Jenza made a bad situation worse when she used the exploit, filled her pockets with PC ISK and even showed up in Hellstorm PC battles she was not supposed to be a part of (on our side at least). If a "representative" for our community is allowed to benefit from insider information (everyone from CB understood the mechanic who had been a part of Corp Battles) then you are really just giving CPM members carte blanche. I am not accusing anyone of anything they have yet to admit that they were a part of. This happened. It has been made clear by the CPM that CCP is more interested in the development process than communication with the community. It has also be made clear by CCP that you are more interested in damage control than resolving the issues of communication and been less than forthcoming about what you want to work on so that we can communicate to you what needs to happen to make things work better. I signed on as a Closed Beta player and devoted countless hours to testing for you and my opinion seems to matter less than one of your chosen few, have continued to give feedback that is of mixed value I am sure, but feel that my time has been wasted. When for all the communication attempts made there have been countless times where it has been flat out ignored. CCP has clearly stated communicate with us through twitter or IRC but the first response I have had to any of my requests for a feature or even a comment has been not from CCP but from Hans, after not 1 week but 2 months time and several twitter messages communicating a desire for some acknowledgement that the idea has been seen. The only good communication from CCP that I seem to find are the surveys from QuestionPro that show up in my email from time to time. This is an appropriate way to communicate with the community. They provide you with the feedback you are looking for and you seem to listen when the crowd sourcing information enters the fray. Keep the surveys coming, better yet, build them into the PS3 Client. Get everyone involved and either allow us to elect a CPM that is representative or do away with them. You have their proposed charter. Finalize what needs work on and get it done, please, so we can get our game on, continue the work towards a better New Eden and one of the most successful franchises on the planet. *One Universe...with friendly fire for all!*
jenza aranda BetaMax. 2104	Posted - 2013.11.12 15:40:00 - [198] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: [quote=CCP Logibro] Jenza made a bad situation worse when she used the exploit, filled her pockets with PC ISK and even showed up in Hellstorm PC battles she was not supposed to be a part of (on our side at least). If a "representative" for our community is allowed to benefit from insider information I would love to know what "insider information" you are talking about. I knew exactly the same as everyone else, this "exploit" or so you call it has been around since corp battles where available. I or even anyone else didnt use it because there was no real reason or benefit until PC. I still stand by my statement that this was not an exploit but emergent gameplay. Dust 514 101 // Dust 514 Wiki
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1698	Posted - 2013.11.12 16:04:00 - [199] - Quote jenza aranda wrote: Draco Cerberus wrote: Jenza made a bad situation worse when she used the exploit, filled her pockets with PC ISK and even showed up in Hellstorm PC battles she was not supposed to be a part of (on our side at least). If a "representative" for our community is allowed to benefit from insider information I would love to know what "insider information" you are talking about. I knew exactly the same as everyone else, this "exploit" or so you call it has been around since corp battles where available. I or even anyone else didnt use it because there was no real reason or benefit until PC. I still stand by my statement that this was not an exploit but emergent gameplay. Its QQ about having bad security... CEO of The Corporate Raiders, We're still recruiting... Level 1 Forum Warrior
CEOPyrex CloneA The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 392	Posted - 2013.11.12 17:31:00 - [200] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: For a game with around 2k a day active players, an ideas forum, developers talking directly to the community and providing excellent comms all round i do not see the point of the CPM anymore. My 'stance' has produced a flurry of opinion around this topic and dialogue is always good but i still see many people supporting the CPM as an opportunity to become part of some 'Illuminati' club and spoon with CCP. Even without an agenda, this is pretty sad and creates a two tier player base, hence the resentment that has spawned on this matter over the year. I will watch this 'concept' with interest while quietly noting those who are obviously looking to become CPM (many in this thread alone) as I suspect when/if the 'elections' begin, we will rekindle this topic once more. It's a bit more than two thousand, sir. http://eve-offline.net/?server=dust And as far as your stance producing a flurry of opinion - it's important to remember that this entire paragraph - "My 'stance' has produced a flurry of opinion around this topic and dialogue is always good but i still see many people supporting the CPM as an opportunity to become part of some 'Illuminati' club and spoon with CCP. Even without an agenda, this is pretty sad and creates a two tier player base, hence the resentment that has spawned on this matter over the year." - is also an opinion. One big, giant opinion. That 'resentment' has no basis and not legitimate evidence of it's existence, other than your word. You have not shown stats, votes or general consensus that this is the view of the greater majority. There are no riots taking place in game over this issue and there certainly are not articles regarding it on Eve24 or TheMittani. and what's even more pitiful than your shoddy attempt to dislodge the health of the community for the sake of your own agenda (this is starting to sound like a starburst commercial) is the fact that there is no justifiable reason for doing such beyond petty paranoia. You have YET to bring forth a justifiable reason that we don't need a CPM. All in all your shenanigans and attempts to sound intellectual, prophetic and dignified are painting a different picture of a player who is appealing to the least common denominator by appealing to gullibility with false claims, with little to no backing and an almost cultish demeanor by trying to say that there is some vast conspiracy between developer and consumer over a ******* video game. Just as well, if and when those members of the CPM are elected in, it will be solely because the majority of the people you claim to discourage the existence of the CPM, voted for them. So let that sink in for a second because you can't argue it both ways - they're either a conspiracy theory, complete with behind-the-curtains meetings about how to shift the game balance in their favor... or they're discouraging the CPM entirely and are likely not to even bother voting them in. So which is it, because obviously there has to be a majority in one or the other yet you claim that the majority are both. Good post, in this post you deny the game has very few people playing it, there are no problems with the CPM at all and that people are not unhappy with the CPM What planet are you on? You are obviously a clever guy and looking to become the next CPM candidate and all your postings have shown a massive defensive over reaction to people stating their own opinions and experiences that the CPM isn't fit for purpose and should go. Let me guess you are one of those long term EVE players who tried year on year to get onto the CSM but just wasn't popular or even known enough to get through the door. The CPM represents your only option to get into the 'in club' that you so think it is. how close to the mark am I? Of course now should you ever run for CPM you would be painted with exactly the above brush and all your comments and posts would be marked as biased and highly suspect as to your motives and frankly you are just damaging yourself with this futile over reaction to people standing up and saying the CPM is a bad idea, acting as if you can engineer others opinions. I will naturally enjoy tracking your progress as you try to back peddle and state "ITS ALL OKAY BRO" and "DIDNT WANT TO BE CPM ANYWAY" while i sip this rather fine Mojito.

NanoCleric The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 95	Posted - 2013.11.12 20:00:00 - [201] - Quote Cough Post #140 Aeon Amadi wrote: While I'm not actively campaigning for CPM, it's no secret that I have expressed my intent to one day run for election, when such is available. Cough ... heads off to find some cough syrup...
CEOPyrex CloneA The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 395	Posted - 2013.11.12 20:01:00 - [202] - Quote NanoCleric wrote: Cough Aeon Amadi wrote: While I'm not actively campaigning for CPM, it's no secret that I have expressed my intent to one day run for election, when such is available. Cough ... heads off to find some cough syrup... AHAHHAHAHHAHa I KNEW IT Every word that comes out of your mouth now in defense of the CPM is like a turd falling into my drink.
Anarchide Greedy Bastards 2429	Posted - 2013.11.12 20:11:00 - [203] - Quote dinkum tachyglossus wrote: I will not use the CPM because.... its a free to play GAME. Why would I bother emailing someone who will filter my thoughts before passing them onto CCP when I already have enough channels that I feel are more direct, open for peer review and comment. I am a casual player, who just wants to have a bit of fun and a distraction for awhile. If I feel the game is not to my liking I will simply find another. CCP should perhaps concentrate on improving more direct in-game communication with me. Your thoughts have to be filtered, because they are dirty Level 2 Forum Warrior Hate Lord
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 939	Posted - 2013.11.12 21:31:00 - [204] - Quote CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: Good post, in this post you deny the game has very few people playing it, there are no problems with the CPM at all and that people are not unhappy with the CPM What planet are you on? You are obviously a clever guy and looking to become the next CPM candidate and all your postings have shown a massive defensive over reaction to people stating their own opinions and experiences that the CPM isn't fit for purpose and should go. Let me guess you are one of those long term EVE players who tried year on year to get onto the CSM but just wasn't popular or even known enough to get through the door. The CPM represents your only option to get into the 'in club' that you so think it is. how close to the mark am I? Of course now should you ever run for CPM you would be painted with exactly the above brush and all your comments and posts would be marked as biased and highly suspect as to your motives and frankly you are just damaging yourself with this futile over reaction to people standing up and saying the CPM is a bad idea, acting as if you can engineer others opinions. I will naturally enjoy tracking your progress as you try to back peddle and state "ITS ALL OKAY BRO" and "DIDNT WANT TO BE CPM ANYWAY" while i sip this rather fine Mojito. So if you're not 'against the CPM' you MUST be running for it? Pyrex, man. You need to take that tinfoil hat off. The CPM isn't the big bad monster you're stating it is, they are guys chosen because of their ties to the community, and their ability to take ideas to CCP direct from the forums, or from Skype Conversations, or IRC, or a multitude of other places. They KNOW what CCP is planning, and how ideas they get can be applied to the game 'as it pertains to the current development of DUST 514' the fact that they are barred from openly discussing a lot of these things due to the NDA makes it appear, sometimes, that they are not doing much, but I know that Hans, jenza, Kane, and Nova Knife, are constantly in communication with CCP DUST developers and marketing staff, and so on and so forth. I pester them on Skype enough to know when they are in meetings or not. The implication that the CPM is not being effectively run, has nothing to do with the effort that the CPM puts in, or the information that comes out. CCP themselves stated that it was a lack of two way communication that led to the ineffectiveness of the system. The same thing happened to the CSM in the past years, where at the start CCP's communication with the CSM didn't work that well, but looking at what the CSM has actually helped implement in EVE makes the fact that they are worthwhile a case judged on quantity as well as quality. The CPM is doing their job as much as they are able, the fact that they are held back by NDA on a lot of issues isn't their fault. Members of the CPM are themselves pushing CCP to let up a bit on the NDA and let more information flow to the players screens. They're also working within the outline that CCP has drawn (or is drawing due to changes in staff) to shape the smaller things. If the CPM could tell you exactly what it's touched on, exactly what input it's had into ideas, then you'd probably be praising them on what they have done. Not condemning them as a non-functional entity. "Regard your soldiers as your children, and they will follow you into the deepest valleys." Sun Tzu
Heinrich Jagerblitzen D3LTA FORC3 1047	Posted - 2013.11.13 01:04:00 - [205] - Quote CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: developers talking directly to the community and providing excellent comms all round I hope everyone takes this sentence as a pretty clear indicator of how close you've been following recent events. Quote: I still see many people supporting the CPM as an opportunity to become part of some 'Illuminati' club and spoon with CCP. Than you are not only deaf, but blind. The people advocating for the CPM here are not doing so because they want to be part of the illuminati spoon club, they are doing so because they know from experience that this cute story about the CPM being an illuminati spoon club is itself a steaming pile of horseshit. Many posters have already demonstrated and articulated as much through pages and pages detailing precisely why the council does not operate in the way you think that it does, and your response has been several vague sentences that repeat yourself without providing a shred of evidence to back up your outrageous claims. To say that players are doing this because they want to be the "puppetmasters" themselves is completely ignorant at best, and openly deceptive at worst.
DJINN Marauder Ancient Exiles. 2886	Posted - 2013.11.13 02:20:00 - [206] - Quote While you guys are here, I know it's incredibly off topic but, what happened to rollover sp? GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢ Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà Forum Warrior LV. 2
Heinrich Jagerblitzen D3LTA FORC3 1047	Posted - 2013.11.13 02:42:00 - [207] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: While you guys are here, I know it's incredibly off topic but, what happened to rollover sp? We don't know yet, if there's any updates they'll be shared in an appropriate thread.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 1745	Posted - 2013.11.13 03:13:00 - [208] - Quote No offense to any particular member of the CPM, but I don't believe that they can really represent the players, having not been elected. When can we see elections so we can get a representative CPM, rather than a selected one?
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 3729	Posted - 2013.11.13 05:05:00 - [209] - Quote CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: Good post, in this post you deny the game has very few people playing it, there are no problems with the CPM at all and that people are not unhappy with the CPM What planet are you on? You are obviously a clever guy and looking to become the next CPM candidate and all your postings have shown a massive defensive over reaction to people stating their own opinions and experiences that the CPM isn't fit for purpose and should go. Let me guess you are one of those long term EVE players who tried year on year to get onto the CSM but just wasn't popular or even known enough to get through the door. The CPM represents your only option to get into the 'in club' that you so think it is. how close to the mark am I? Of course now should you ever run for CPM you would be painted with exactly the above brush and all your comments and posts would be marked as biased and highly suspect as to your motives and frankly you are just damaging yourself with this futile over reaction to people standing up and saying the CPM is a bad idea, acting as if you can engineer others opinions. I will naturally enjoy tracking your progress as you try to back peddle and state "ITS ALL OKAY BRO" and "DIDNT WANT TO BE CPM ANYWAY" while i sip this rather fine Mojito. I never said there were no problems with the CPM at all, you assumed that much and just as well I never said there did not exist; people that were unhappy with them. Anytime someone gets on the CSM/CPM there is always going to be conspiracy theorists and generally disgruntled people who aren't happy with them, spewing acid in all directions in a desperate attempt to get attention, much like yourself As far as me having a 'defense over reaction', I'd say it's justified being as (and I'll state it yet again since I can't make it clear enough) there hasn't been any justifiable reason for NOT having them other than "I'm unhappy because of reasons and you're not listening because you are happy with them." If you can legitimately state WHY we don't need the CPM other than this vague, arbitrary and over-broad answer (my god you would be an amazing politician) than I might be willing to change my mind, but so far the only thing you've got is baiting them into becoming aggressive in response to your trolling. I never once ran for the CSM, never had any reason to because for a while I was just like you - pissed off at all of them and feeling discouraged... then things started getting better in game and I realized that they didn't have to communicate with me to understand the message I was expressing. Sure, there are a few that I didn't like at all (two step) because they were trolling on the forums but then I see this kind of banter and wonder how they manage the patience! As to why I intend to run for CPM? Because I feel that I am entirely capable to express the logical and rational views of the common player (not the vocal minority!) to make the game better. I have an extensive testing background, going very in depth into my testing methods and providing screenshots, video, etc regarding that. As such, I've gained the attention of a lot of prominent players because I know their plight and I understand where they're coming from. And, by the way, I don't give a rats ass about your opinions over anything that I say because I don't need your favor to help make this game as great as it can possibly be ^_^ That's the beauty of the CPM, even if every player in the world hates you they don't need to like you in order for healthy changes to occur in game. Ask The Mittani My favorite part is this though: "acting as if you can engineer others opinions." which you accuse me of - but somehow neglected to mention that you yourself did it by saying that the majority didn't like the CPM! ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1705	Posted - 2013.11.13 05:06:00 - [210] - Quote Oh pyrex you're here still being an ass to your alliance and ignoring your corp I see... CEO of The Corporate Raiders, We're still recruiting... Level 1 Forum Warrior

Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 491	Posted - 2013.11.13 08:44:00 - [211] - Quote jenza aranda wrote: Draco Cerberus wrote: [quote=CCP Logibro] Jenza made a bad situation worse when she used the exploit, filled her pockets with PC ISK and even showed up in Hellstorm PC battles she was not supposed to be a part of (on our side at least). If a "representative" for our community is allowed to benefit from insider information I would love to know what "insider information" you are talking about. I knew exactly the same as everyone else, this "exploit" or so you call it has been around since corp battles where available. I or even anyone else didnt use it because there was no real reason or benefit until PC. I still stand by my statement that this was not an exploit but emergent gameplay. Jenza I was in the PC battle you awoxed Hellstorm in and watched Kujo teamkill you, as stated in my post it was something everyone knew about and if the problem would have been resolved by just talking to CCP and telling them that this needs to be done first, which we all did during CB, and had CCP listened rather than constantly leaving it till the majority of the game starts complaining about it on the forums we would have had roles 6 months sooner. I'm not saying we didn't know about it (we being the CB and OB vets) but when it results in creating a situation where one group of individuals who are supposed to be in an advisory position to the devs, takes over a good portion of "Player Owned Space" through this kind of tactic as well as having some actually really good players it make many of us wonder just how many of the known exploits (to you and other CPM members) are going to be used against the rest of the players. You can't deny you did it all you can deny is that it was unknown. Which I agree, was a widely know exploit that CCP said Soon TM rather than ok we see the issue it will be out in a Hot Fix like so many other things have been fixed (AR ROF for one). This line of communication needs to be clear and if the CPM and CCP can't agree on who what and how then maybe you shouldn't be representing players, maybe you should be sitting in front of your console in a new toon just to see what its like getting Proto killed by your own corp or Nyan Cyan or so many of the other corps running nothing but proto gear in all pub matches because they can afford to with PC districts giving them a constant flow of isk. *One Universe...with friendly fire for all!*
jenza aranda BetaMax. 2110	Posted - 2013.11.13 09:16:00 - [212] - Quote I guess it doesnt help my case that CCP stated that it was not an exploit? And that I told CCP it was too easy and needed to be changed? because these two things are still facts. And the truth is, people with the right roles can still awox, but its harder to do, which is good. We are not in world of warcraft or my little pony island adventure where things are all hugs and smiles. This is a slimy universe where we do things to get ahead within our personal boundaries of personal morality. So I ask again; What insider information did I benifit from? Dust 514 101 // Dust 514 Wiki
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 3730	Posted - 2013.11.13 10:05:00 - [213] - Quote jenza aranda wrote: I guess it doesnt help my case that CCP stated that it was not an exploit? And that I told CCP it was too easy and needed to be changed? because these two things are still facts. And the truth is, people with the right roles can still awox, but its harder to do, which is good. We are not in world of warcraft or my little pony island adventure where things are all hugs and smiles. This is a slimy universe where we do things to get ahead within our personal boundaries of personal morality. So I ask again; What insider information did I benifit from? I don't think Dusters are quite prepared for the backstabbing that is Eve Online. ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
Lorhak Gannarsein 585	Posted - 2013.11.13 10:09:00 - [214] - Quote jenza aranda wrote: I guess it doesnt help my case that CCP stated that it was not an exploit? And that I told CCP it was too easy and needed to be changed? because these two things are still facts. And the truth is, people with the right roles can still awox, but its harder to do, which is good. We are not in world of warcraft or my little pony island adventure where things are all hugs and smiles. This is a slimy universe where we do things to get ahead within our personal boundaries of personal morality. So I ask again; What insider information did I benifit from? +1. I seem to recall jenza (should it be capitalised?) mentioning this (amongst a horde of other voices). Clearly, her alliance was simply the best placed to make use of the information. Aeon Amadi wrote: jenza aranda wrote: I guess it doesnt help my case that CCP stated that it was not an exploit? And that I told CCP it was too easy and needed to be changed? because these two things are still facts. And the truth is, people with the right roles can still awox, but its harder to do, which is good. We are not in world of warcraft or my little pony island adventure where things are all hugs and smiles. This is a slimy universe where we do things to get ahead within our personal boundaries of personal morality. So I ask again; What insider information did I benifit from? I don't think Dusters are quite prepared for the backstabbing that is Eve Online. Based on Nullarbor's response to a thread recently complaining about a corp-jack by an EVE player, I don't think CCP cares Too busy clicking cookies to play DUST...
medomai grey WarRavens League of Infamy 330	Posted - 2013.11.13 10:18:00 - [215] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: I don't think Dusters are quite prepared for the backstabbing that is Eve Online. This game is a part of EVE, a game infamous for scams and schemes. Backstabbing should be expected. Although having said that, a good percent of you lot are too honest. Also go easy on Pyrex. He may not be right, but his concerns and woes are based off his observations of EVE. It's not that strange that he would draw a parallel between his past experiences in EVE and this game. PS: Glad to see more CPM forum activity. Blatant Dust_514 recruiting in the silliest of places. :P
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 3733	Posted - 2013.11.13 10:24:00 - [216] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: I don't think Dusters are quite prepared for the backstabbing that is Eve Online. Based on Nullarbor's response to a thread recently complaining about a corp-jack by an EVE player, I don't think CCP cares Good. ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 493	Posted - 2013.11.13 16:31:00 - [217] - Quote jenza aranda wrote: I guess it doesnt help my case that CCP stated that it was not an exploit? And that I told CCP it was too easy and needed to be changed? because these two things are still facts. And the truth is, people with the right roles can still awox, but its harder to do, which is good. We are not in world of warcraft or my little pony island adventure where things are all hugs and smiles. This is a slimy universe where we do things to get ahead within our personal boundaries of personal morality. So I ask again; What insider information did I benifit from? Jenza, I am using you as an example because you flaunted the fact that it was possible. We knew it was and it was not inside information nor did I say it was insider information. A known exploit of a FAIL CCP mechanic that is being flat out refused to fix for too long is still not emergent gameplay no matter what you say. If you were in a fleet with me and shot me as someone cynoed in a Titan fleet to keep me from killing the cyno operator, that would be emergent gameplay. This was not anything like that. It was someone trying to AWOX without the proper mechanics in place. I think I have explained the issue. This was not a personal attack against you but rather the policy of communicating ineffectively with CCP's client base which has been supporting them in New Eden for the past 10 years. *One Universe...with friendly fire for all!*
Heinrich Jagerblitzen D3LTA FORC3 1048	Posted - 2013.11.13 19:40:00 - [218] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: While you guys are here, I know it's incredibly off topic but, what happened to rollover sp? Posted an update here.
Heinrich Jagerblitzen D3LTA FORC3 1048	Posted - 2013.11.13 19:45:00 - [219] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: No offense to any particular member of the CPM, but I don't believe that they can really represent the players, having not been elected. None taken. Though this isn't something anyone has to wonder about, all you have to do is ask us what we're pushing for or read our posts and you can see whether or not we're pushing for features and ideas you care about. Quote: When can we see elections so we can get a representative CPM, rather than a selected one? Once we actually get a standard operating procedure established and the devs participating regularly. There has to BE a functioning CPM before you can elect people to it. Dolan's almost done with the Charter, which will than pave the way for an eventual white paper and election system. Having an election now though would be pointless, it would only dump a batch of fresh noobs into the same rocky situation and overall would be a net setback, not progress. Like I said, whether we represent you or not in the meantime is something you can find out easily - just ask us how we feel about an issue that's important to you, or ask us to forward feedback to CCP on your behalf. I think you'll find that the fact we were appointed is a bit of a red herring, we're quite easy to contact and work with.
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 3764	Posted - 2013.11.14 01:29:00 - [220] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: Why is it that I can directly twitter no less than 3 CPMs, 4 devs and send multiple forum posts about subjects that I feel are needing attention and it takes 2 months for anyone to get back to me with any information but in the span of 2-3 days you yourself have responded to my criticism no less than 3 times? I'mma chalk that up to the fact that twitter is terrible and it's very hard to convey a lot of information in the character limits provided by the service. If you want real results, use Skype ^_^ ANON Diplomat -//- I Support SP Rollover ^_^

Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 497	Posted - 2013.11.14 02:20:00 - [221] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Draco Cerberus wrote: Why is it that I can directly twitter no less than 3 CPMs, 4 devs and send multiple forum posts about subjects that I feel are needing attention and it takes 2 months for anyone to get back to me with any information but in the span of 2-3 days you yourself have responded to my criticism no less than 3 times? I'mma chalk that up to the fact that twitter is terrible and it's very hard to convey a lot of information in the character limits provided by the service. If you want real results, use Skype ^_^ I was actually installing skype as I was writing that post, and think it may resolve some of the communication issues I have been having. On the other hand just because I call someone doesn't mean they need to or will pick up at the other end or will say anything other than I'll get back to you on that. *One Universe...with friendly fire and Open World Game Play for all!*
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 3765	Posted - 2013.11.14 02:28:00 - [222] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Draco Cerberus wrote: Why is it that I can directly twitter no less than 3 CPMs, 4 devs and send multiple forum posts about subjects that I feel are needing attention and it takes 2 months for anyone to get back to me with any information but in the span of 2-3 days you yourself have responded to my criticism no less than 3 times? I'mma chalk that up to the fact that twitter is terrible and it's very hard to convey a lot of information in the character limits provided by the service. If you want real results, use Skype ^_^ I was actually installing skype as I was writing that post, and think it may resolve some of the communication issues I have been having. On the other hand just because I call someone doesn't mean they need to or will pick up at the other end or will say anything other than I'll get back to you on that. Best not to call. Calling is sort of a 'formal' action when it comes to Skype - usually reserved for Podcasts, interviews, CSM/CPM meetings and the like. A simple message works just fine ^_^ While you're on Skype, talk to Hans about getting in on the Dustscussions: Vehicle Rebalance and Faction Warfare, talk about your ideas with the rest of the Dusters who use Skype! We don't bite that often =P ANON Diplomat -//- I Support SP Rollover ^_^
Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 497	Posted - 2013.11.14 14:48:00 - [223] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Draco Cerberus wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Draco Cerberus wrote: Why is it that I can directly twitter no less than 3 CPMs, 4 devs and send multiple forum posts about subjects that I feel are needing attention and it takes 2 months for anyone to get back to me with any information but in the span of 2-3 days you yourself have responded to my criticism no less than 3 times? I'mma chalk that up to the fact that twitter is terrible and it's very hard to convey a lot of information in the character limits provided by the service. If you want real results, use Skype ^_^ I was actually installing skype as I was writing that post, and think it may resolve some of the communication issues I have been having. On the other hand just because I call someone doesn't mean they need to or will pick up at the other end or will say anything other than I'll get back to you on that. Best not to call. Calling is sort of a 'formal' action when it comes to Skype - usually reserved for Podcasts, interviews, CSM/CPM meetings and the like. A simple message works just fine ^_^ While you're on Skype, talk to Hans about getting in on the Dustscussions: Vehicle Rebalance and Faction Warfare, talk about your ideas with the rest of the Dusters who use Skype! We don't bite that often =P I would but I still have yet to receive contact permission yet. *One Universe...with friendly fire and Open World Game Play for all!*
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 3774	Posted - 2013.11.14 14:52:00 - [224] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Draco Cerberus wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Draco Cerberus wrote: Why is it that I can directly twitter no less than 3 CPMs, 4 devs and send multiple forum posts about subjects that I feel are needing attention and it takes 2 months for anyone to get back to me with any information but in the span of 2-3 days you yourself have responded to my criticism no less than 3 times? I'mma chalk that up to the fact that twitter is terrible and it's very hard to convey a lot of information in the character limits provided by the service. If you want real results, use Skype ^_^ I was actually installing skype as I was writing that post, and think it may resolve some of the communication issues I have been having. On the other hand just because I call someone doesn't mean they need to or will pick up at the other end or will say anything other than I'll get back to you on that. Best not to call. Calling is sort of a 'formal' action when it comes to Skype - usually reserved for Podcasts, interviews, CSM/CPM meetings and the like. A simple message works just fine ^_^ While you're on Skype, talk to Hans about getting in on the Dustscussions: Vehicle Rebalance and Faction Warfare, talk about your ideas with the rest of the Dusters who use Skype! We don't bite that often =P I would but I still have yet to receive contact permission yet. ???? I've never heard of that. I just messaged them via IM lol. ANON Diplomat -//- I Support SP Rollover ^_^
Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 497	Posted - 2013.11.14 15:44:00 - [225] - Quote Yeah so did I but meh probably working or some other productive thing like that, it did take 2 months for him to get back to me the 4th or 5th time I sent him something (still waiting on the first few messages I sent to be read and/or responded to) so I don't expect this process to be quick. *One Universe...with friendly fire and Open World Game Play for all!*
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2224	Posted - 2013.11.14 16:31:00 - [226] - Quote Draco, I would also suggest popping into the Skype channels for Faction Warfare and Vehicles that Hans created if those are topics that you are interested in discussing. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=116231&find=unread Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Ryme Intrinseca Seraphim Auxiliaries 207	Posted - 2013.11.15 08:12:00 - [227] - Quote In this thread a CPM decided to wade in, telling the plebs that their estimates were 'bad' as they hadn't taken into account dispersion (because we're just plebs and haven't seen the weapons in action). Then another CPM came in and told us that the numbers we were using were out of date anyway. Textbook example of the antagonistic and hierarchical relationship between the CPM and the general playerbase. I don't even blame the current CPMs; it's just the nature of a role that places a select few above us mere immortals.
Heinrich Jagerblitzen D3LTA FORC3 1058	Posted - 2013.11.16 23:17:00 - [228] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: In this thread a CPM decided to wade in, telling the plebs that their estimates were 'bad' as they hadn't taken into account dispersion (because we're just plebs and haven't seen the weapons in action). Then another CPM came in and told us that the numbers we were using were out of date anyway. Textbook example of the antagonistic and hierarchical relationship between the CPM and the general playerbase. I don't even blame the current CPMs; it's just the nature of a role that places a select few above us mere immortals. I like that providing you guys with additional information is somehow "antagonistic". Look, I get it, you expect us to be saccharine-sweet all the time but this is not about "mere mortals" or "plebs" - absolutely nothing about our position makes us better than you. We're just not going to refrain from commenting on an issue where we have a different perspective, nor are we going to pretend we don't have exclusive access to information that we have, because its the truth. It is our responsibility to jump in sometimes and put a stop to a train of thought if its misplaced based on pieces of the picture that the public doesn't have - assuming its a case (like this one) where we've been authorized to comment on what we've seen internally. These are simple facts surrounding the existence of a player council, our exclusive access is what allows us to give feedback to CCP about what they're working on, and sometimes it means we're not going to be alarmed about things that the general public is alarmed about because we know more than they do. If stating that "We know more than you" is something you find crazy offensive, its time to either HTFU or avoid the forums because it certainly won't be the last time one of us has to point that out. You're certainly welcome to not believe us when we say it, and call us liars, but the CPM is nether interested in playing pretend nor in self-censoring if it interferes with our fundamental ability to engage the public using the information we have access to and can share.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10332	Posted - 2013.11.16 23:46:00 - [229] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: jenza aranda wrote: Draco Cerberus wrote: [quote=CCP Logibro] Jenza made a bad situation worse when she used the exploit, filled her pockets with PC ISK and even showed up in Hellstorm PC battles she was not supposed to be a part of (on our side at least). If a "representative" for our community is allowed to benefit from insider information I would love to know what "insider information" you are talking about. I knew exactly the same as everyone else, this "exploit" or so you call it has been around since corp battles where available. I or even anyone else didnt use it because there was no real reason or benefit until PC. I still stand by my statement that this was not an exploit but emergent gameplay. Jenza I was in the PC battle you awoxed Hellstorm in and watched Kujo teamkill you, as stated in my post it was something everyone knew about and if the problem would have been resolved by just talking to CCP and telling them that this needs to be done first, which we all did during CB, and had CCP listened rather than constantly leaving it till the majority of the game starts complaining about it on the forums we would have had roles 6 months sooner. I'm not saying we didn't know about it (we being the CB and OB vets) but when it results in creating a situation where one group of individuals who are supposed to be in an advisory position to the devs, takes over a good portion of "Player Owned Space" through this kind of tactic as well as having some actually really good players it make many of us wonder just how many of the known exploits (to you and other CPM members) are going to be used against the rest of the players. You can't deny you did it all you can deny is that it was unknown. Which I agree, was a widely know exploit that CCP said Soon TM rather than ok we see the issue it will be out in a Hot Fix like so many other things have been fixed (AR ROF for one). This line of communication needs to be clear and if the CPM and CCP can't agree on who what and how then maybe you shouldn't be representing players, maybe you should be sitting in front of your console in a new toon just to see what its like getting Proto killed by your own corp or Nyan Cyan or so many of the other corps running nothing but proto gear in all pub matches because they can afford to with PC districts giving them a constant flow of isk. I still want that charter or you may as well just call the CPM a Dev Pet Club, no offense intended but at least if an idiot gets elected to a seat at the table, when elections come again we can vote him or her out, you guys have a job to do and I realize the ball is in CCPs court but maybe it takes two to argue and the CPM is partly to blame as well for not having a document that everyone can agree upon. I remember two months before that patch a player decided to write a short story about how awoxing would work, even went to as far as to saying the hostile squad was committing suicide to burn clones. Props on that guy for figuring the system out early. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier Specialist Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 2131	Posted - 2013.11.19 07:44:00 - [230] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: In this thread a CPM decided to wade in, telling the plebs that their estimates were 'bad' as they hadn't taken into account dispersion (because we're just plebs and haven't seen the weapons in action). Then another CPM came in and told us that the numbers we were using were out of date anyway. Textbook example of the antagonistic and hierarchical relationship between the CPM and the general playerbase. I don't even blame the current CPMs; it's just the nature of a role that places a select few above us mere immortals. I was the second CPM in that thread ;) You'll notice that I also told the first CPM in the thread (IWS) to STFU. The dude means well, but he's the worst person imaginable to have trying to explain /anything/ in a way that isn't going to tick people off. If anything was "antagonistic" about my post, it was towards IWS being a complete spazz, and not towards my fellow players. You'll also noticed that I posted twice in that thread. Once noting my dismay at IWS' diplomatic failings, and the second time noting my complete disappointment in CCP for failing to make public the fact they even /changed/ the stats of the new weapons and vehicles (apparently) in response to the feedback on the public forums. (Which the CPM still hasn't even seen either, yet)

Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 528	Posted - 2013.11.24 00:08:00 - [231] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I remember two months before that patch a player decided to write a short story about how awoxing would work, even went to as far as to saying the hostile squad was committing suicide to burn clones. Props on that guy for figuring the system out early. I think you miss my point sir. Many of us indicated to CCP that the mechanics of PC as Corp battles at the time were called was a huge fail without roles or permissions of some sort. In Eve I can put out an advert for a fleet and disallow anyone from joining it if they don't meet the specifications for said fleet such as standing, corporation, alliance or just because I don't like them. This oversight on CCPs part has been corrected but there remains a lingering bad taste in my mouth about how long it took for them to fix it. It brings to mind the thought that there was no reason for the oversight and it was done just to troll the players. These are the kind of things that the CPM is here for and I guess you guys all chimed in and said that it needed to be fixed but CCP said not now we are busy right? Jenza took it upon herself to urinate in everyone else's cornflakes involved in PC and I must admit that the tactic to garner CCP attention to the problem worked, they added roles. This is a case of communication both ways and one party not realizing how significant a given issue is and saying no. Will having the Charter in place and active prevent this from happening? I certainly hope so. Jenza, Thank-you. *One Universe...with friendly fire and Open World Game Play for all!*
Ryme Intrinseca Seraphim Auxiliaries 276	Posted - 2013.11.24 17:53:00 - [232] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: In this thread a CPM decided to wade in, telling the plebs that their estimates were 'bad' as they hadn't taken into account dispersion (because we're just plebs and haven't seen the weapons in action). Then another CPM came in and told us that the numbers we were using were out of date anyway. Textbook example of the antagonistic and hierarchical relationship between the CPM and the general playerbase. I don't even blame the current CPMs; it's just the nature of a role that places a select few above us mere immortals. I was the second CPM in that thread ;) You'll notice that I also told the first CPM in the thread (IWS) to STFU. The dude means well, but he's the worst person imaginable to have trying to explain /anything/ in a way that isn't going to tick people off. If anything was "antagonistic" about my post, it was towards IWS being a complete spazz, and not towards my fellow players. You'll also noticed that I posted twice in that thread. Once noting my dismay at IWS' diplomatic failings, and the second time noting my complete disappointment in CCP for failing to make public the fact they even /changed/ the stats of the new weapons and vehicles (apparently) in response to the feedback on the public forums. (Which the CPM still hasn't even seen either, yet) +1 because I agree your intervention wasn't antagonistic. Hierarchical yes, but as Heinrich said, that comes with the territory.
jenza aranda BetaMax. 2243	Posted - 2013.11.25 00:04:00 - [233] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: Jenza took it upon herself to urinate in everyone else's cornflakes involved in PC and I must admit that the tactic to garner CCP attention to the problem worked, they added roles. This is a case of communication both ways and one party not realizing how significant a given issue is and saying no. Will having the Charter in place and active prevent this from happening? I certainly hope so. Jenza, Thank-you. Someone is... thanking me for awoxing? has the world gone mad?! although on a more serious note, after I awox'd I told CCP right away that it was too easy but should still be possible. now we have roles which means the corp needs to simply trust the wrong person to awox Dust 514 101 // Dust 514 Wiki
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 631	Posted - 2014.02.08 15:27:00 - [234] - Quote The CPM need to accept that a lot of the Dust playerbase are going to be un-happy if they have no say in why or who should be CPM If the CPM was to be re-formed I would love to see a mix of people be invovled - 1 CPM/CCP vote on current CPM to continue (Gathered they want to) - 1 player vote on a second CPM to continue ^^ - 1 CPM/CCP vote on a player to be added to CPM - 1 player vote on a second player to be added to CPM How the remaining CPM are added I will leave up to someone else I think this would help put players fears of a biased CPM at rest Minmatar Demolitions Specialist Plasma Cannon Pro
10Pawn Dust Algintal Core Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2014.03.26 11:01:00 - [235] - Quote Just get rid of the CPM, ccp can poll the true fan base via vote
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5345	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:56:00 - [236] - Quote 10Pawn Dust wrote: Just get rid of the CPM, ccp can poll the true fan base via vote And then I'll just make twenty-nine more accounts and vote en masse for what I want Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Mex-0 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2014.03.28 00:36:00 - [237] - Quote Sirpidey Adtur wrote: Though this CPM was appointed, rather than elected, it fared incredibly well, despite the poor state of the game. Although at first, the CPM didn't seem to get much done, they are all active members of the community, and have helped the game a great deal. Although they sometimes have their mouths sewn shut with contracts, they help inform us as much as possible. In fact, this CPM has actually made me re-think some things, and could perhaps be used to improve the CSM. As I said earlier, this CPM was appointed, not elected. This turned out... not as bad as I thought it would be. The CSM is filled with alliances basically buying votes, favoritism, and politics. There was surprisingly little of that here. This is a bit of a radical idea, but perhaps the next CSM and CPM should be HALF elected, and HALF appointed by CCP. Enough that the big alliances can have their voice, yet also have some members of the council not have had to resort to votemongering and favoritism. Often those who will seek power the most, are those least fit to lead. Whew after reading the first sentence, I thought you were going to rant about all the problems of DUST. Gallente Born, Minmatar Specc'd. *The Sixth Kin* Looking for a good corp to fund proto people Weekend Warrior
Tom Hamp the third day Galactic Skyfleet Empire 18	Posted - 2014.04.02 00:20:00 - [238] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: [quote=Takahiro Kashuken]all they will do is push there own agenda for the corp/alliance they are in and for the weapons/dropsuits they use You had 1 job to do and you still havnt done it Ok, all of those accusing us CPM trying to push stuff for our alliance or ourselves over and over again when you have absolutely NO fact nor knowledge backing this up. Well screw you big time. Oh and i dont give a ** whether you think my reaction is appropriate or not At some point, investing your own time in something you're doing in full honesty and being criticized over and over and over again is both preposterous and a tad painfull. Tell me dude(s) (yeah you're not alone) ? do you wake up 1 hour or 2 earlier in the morning to have a meeting with Shangai people before going to work ? Or before sleeping ? Do you spend time writing stuff down and discussing with devs throughout the day making you stay at work that much longer because you left some work aside doing it ? NO. so please try and show some respect for the investment whether or not you like the outcome instead of just blabbing ridiculous accusations like this. And regarding the "they dont know anything about what's needed or what the community wants" coming from 4 month old player. Did you try and dig up the forum for past discussions of us when we were not even CPM yet ? Did you listen or read any of the roundtables\QA sessions at Fanfest to see what is our opinion on various matter regarding the game ? Surely not. As it would already be too much work for you to just check out a few forum thread. And you** want to vote the next CPM ? LOL. Lucky for us you're just a small bunch of loudy idiots and most people know better. Otherwise, my trust in an election system would just collapse to emptyness.[/qdon do explain if you can we're all wanting know sentinels revival your time has come


Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.