| Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
CEOPyrex CloneA
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
340
   |
Posted - 2013.11.05 23:27:00 -
[121] - Quote
No i read the post fine, Dolan states it has not worked as planned, therefore it failed. Sorry that's how i read it.
I see CPMs openly abusing players (even in this thread) something that is not fitting their position
I see alliance members now clamoring to keep the CPM alive so that it can be twisted to suit their agendas
To me and most of the community i think its an open and shut case that this marketing ploy is done and the wider community would be best served with more open groups of people providing feedback and give CCP the respect they deserve to develop their game as the last few patches and months have been excellent all round due to direct coms from CCP and NOT via the CPM.
The facts speak for themselves, the community is receptive to the 'new way' of regular coms, regular patches, posts and treads direct from the developers, remind me, why do we need a CPM anymore? |
virgindestroyer7
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
304
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 23:29:00 -
[122] - Quote
CEOPyrex CloneA wrote:The majority of the community is calling for an end to this, go read the posts and see the significant disrespect out there for this group and this premise. Also go read CCP Dolans post at the front of this thread, he himself states it is not working. If CCP think its been a failure, why are you trying to defend a position that is untenable?
I was very aware when i decided to take this stance that i would come up against those who would not relinquish their soapbox of power easily (and their followers) but decided to do it as i get a huge volume of people mailing me asking what my thoughts are on the CPM concept... so here we are.
By their own admition there are groups forming right now with an agenda in mind to 'Fix scout suits' or to 'get tanks nerfed' etc etc i know because they some how feel they can buy my support so perhaps i do an election video for them and back them.
A flawed, corrupt and frankly pointless concept made by CCP so they can do a couple of good press items on it and wave a carrot on a stick over parts of the community.
Have some free will about you and show CCP they messed up and resign. Anything else is just eroding what little respect is left for you all.
I appreciate you having your own opinion and speaking up about it, however I still completely disagree and it's not because I'm a follower. Anyone in this community can tell you I don't follow. I think for myself, my corp and for my alliance and I don't just do because there is something to do. As a CEO, an alliance leader and a multiconsole 600+ clan leader following isn't an option.
The reason why I find the CPM so invaluable and stand behind them so is because I have first and second hand seen the impact of what they have done. Between setting up tournaments on their own spare time, their own experiences in EVE the game that one day we will be a bigger part of, how they (even as volunteers) work so hard at doing what's best for the community and not for themselves.
There is truth in what you are saying, that the CPM's who are non-active or unable to do their designations should have stepped down but this is new! The rules and guidelines are being made as we go and mistakes have and will be made.
The potential in this game is wonderful, I've been playing since June last year and through everything that CCP has done, I agree that the CPM was a good choice.
There are plenty of people who also agree and it is not because they are followers. They too have put time and energy in promoting, playing and working with this game to see where it is today and without the CPM's help we would be at a fraction of where we are now.
Just IMAGINE the possibilities if they could do more. If CCP allowed them to, if the lines of communication between not only CCP and them, but CPM and the community opened up more.
Any of the CPM's who need my support can ask for it from me. I'm happy to offer it and will continue to.
|
virgindestroyer7
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
304
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 23:32:00 -
[123] - Quote
CEOPyrex CloneA wrote:No i read the post fine, Dolan states it has not worked as planned, therefore it failed. Sorry that's how i read it.
I see CPMs openly abusing players (even in this thread) something that is not fitting their position
I see alliance members now clamoring to keep the CPM alive so that it can be twisted to suit their agendas
To me and most of the community i think its an open and shut case that this marketing ploy is done and the wider community would be best served with more open groups of people providing feedback and give CCP the respect they deserve to develop their game as the last few patches and months have been excellent all round due to direct coms from CCP and NOT via the CPM.
The facts speak for themselves, the community is receptive to the 'new way' of regular coms, regular patches, posts and treads direct from the developers, remind me, why do we need a CPM anymore?
What community do you speak of? I participate in DRUNK NIGHT(which my corp actually runs with DSTheDrunkHeavy), Tdome514, squad cup tournament, FWand PC and I never have seen you around.
I'm curious as to who you find you are speaking for. |
virgindestroyer7
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
304
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 23:34:00 -
[124] - Quote
Starfire Revo wrote:Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:Open question for the CPM / CCP Devs...
Would you be willing to come to Corp / Alliance Private Chat Channels to have town hall meetings with our members?
Let me elaborate:
1) Have one day a week or every other week that a Corp or Alliance can sign up wtih and you join our closed channel or we come to one you set up and we have a brief update on CPM / CCP actions and ellicit feedback and questions from the community writ large. I ran a live Q&A with Hans and Kane a while back. I'd be up for doing another if people are interested.
I would be interested Gimble. I know alot of people would be too. |
Ivar Iosef
G I A N T
EoN.
20
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 23:36:00 -
[125] - Quote
CEOPyrex CloneA wrote:No i read the post fine, Dolan states it has not worked as planned, therefore it failed. Sorry that's how i read it.
I see CPMs openly abusing players (even in this thread) something that is not fitting their position
I see alliance members now clamoring to keep the CPM alive so that it can be twisted to suit their agendas
To me and most of the community i think its an open and shut case that this marketing ploy is done and the wider community would be best served with more open groups of people providing feedback and give CCP the respect they deserve to develop their game as the last few patches and months have been excellent all round due to direct coms from CCP and NOT via the CPM.
The facts speak for themselves, the community is receptive to the 'new way' of regular coms, regular patches, posts and treads direct from the developers, remind me, why do we need a CPM anymore?
Because a thousand voices are babble and three voices are conversation. And honestly, if you left it solely up to CCP Shanghai, I think we would be back to silence and secrecy faster than you could spit. Good intentions are fine, but I would still rather have someone minding the cashbox.
And none of the CPM are in my alliance. Funny how the truth is never what you claim it to be.
And yes, I saw you abusing Caz, you should be ashamed.
You keep speaking of the "wider community" but I keep not seeing these scores of people you keep talking about.
|
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3636
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 23:37:00 -
[126] - Quote
CEOPyrex CloneA wrote:No i read the post fine, Dolan states it has not worked as planned, therefore it failed. Sorry that's how i read it.
I see CPMs openly abusing players (even in this thread) something that is not fitting their position
I see alliance members now clamoring to keep the CPM alive so that it can be twisted to suit their agendas
To me and most of the community i think its an open and shut case that this marketing ploy is done and the wider community would be best served with more open groups of people providing feedback and give CCP the respect they deserve to develop their game as the last few patches and months have been excellent all round due to direct coms from CCP and NOT via the CPM.
The facts speak for themselves, the community is receptive to the 'new way' of regular coms, regular patches, posts and treads direct from the developers, remind me, why do we need a CPM anymore?
Please quote where he says this please, because how you read it is likely not how it really is.
But this does go to prove something - how you read something likely isn't how it really is, which is why CCP doesn't post up their rough concepts because of reactions exactly like this. It gets misinterpreted and misconstrued. Logibro even says this in his post. CCP says that it's working, that their help has been invaluable.
Just as well, you can't say that the majority of the community agrees with you and then turn around to say that alliance members are clamoring to keep the CPM alive, it's contradictory.
This will be my last response as it's simply just a case of arguing against someone who seems to be very confused as to how things really work, and I greatly apologize that we can't help you understand it more clearly - that's a failure on everyone's part, unfortunately. I implore that we leave this as it is and move on.
ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
|
Kevall Longstride
DUST University
Ivy League
624
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 23:45:00 -
[127] - Quote
I'm sorry but I've now read that post of CCP Dolan at the beginning of this thread several time and could you please point me to the part where CCP say its failed, which is your assertion.
I'm reading it as not working as hoped and gives a number of reasons as to why that has been case and the remedies that they wish to put into place.
As to to the accusation that the CPM don't do anything, I'd like to refute that right belief here. On a couple of occasions now, I have been asked for input on several aspects of upcoming game features by CCP at the behest of the CPM, notably the Academy matches. I've also given my thoughts to CCP and the CPM as to the development of the NPE, some of which actually came in with 1.5.
I've only given these examples as they are now in the public domain and in the game. I didn't mention them at the time because even though I'm not bound by the NDA like the CPM are, I know enough to not go blabbing about a feature that might not make it. It would also be somewhat discourteous for me speak about it when I'd been trusted not to.
Now I understand that you only have my word for it but I can assure you that the CPM are doing a lot of work and working with the community and CCP on a daily basis. The problem here is one of transparency and the fact that CCP's community staff for dust has been not at full strength till now. But as Dolan said, they have LogiBro and Sabrewing in place now and that should change in the near future.
As for the 'majority' calling for it in the forums, they're now so toxic and populated by self interested cliques of players determined to have the game progress only as suiting to their playstyle to the detriment of others, that to claim any kind any form of mandate from them is frankly alarming to me.
Only a properly elected and vetted advocacy group such as the CPM can truly be thought of as having a mandate. The fact that the election process has slowed is entirely by their own admission, CCP's fault and they are trying now to get it sorted with the monthly iteration pattern likely to slow after 1.7/8
These are only just my thoughts of course, but I know that I speak for those that agree with me here, when I say that the CPM does work, it just needs CCP to work with them better.
Mercenary Clone of Dennie Fleetfoot
CEO of DUST University
|
virgindestroyer7
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
305
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 23:52:00 -
[128] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:but I know that I speak for those that agree with me here, when I say that the CPM does work, it just needs CCP to work with them better.
THISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHIS
|
Cosgar
ParagonX
7364
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 00:57:00 -
[129] - Quote
I'd rather not have a CPM. I have no qualms with the work CPM0 has done, in fact, I commend them. But I've seen first hand what eventually happens when you have a select few represent a community. They either sit atop the proverbial pyramid, greasing each others palms, or they get served up on a silver platter to the very community that "elected" them when things go sour. It's time we give the power to the people instead of letting the 1% pick and choose what they think is important.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
|
Thor McStrut
Reckoners
329
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 01:03:00 -
[130] - Quote
CEOPyrex CloneA wrote:I would like to reiterate my point, the CPM has not worked and CCP themselves have stated thus at the start of this thread.
Q&As, alliance chats and the like are not the issue, its a puppet show of a group of people who are both powerless and universally disregarded therefore why persist in trying to make this work?
Calling time on it right now before it perpetuates and becomes like the CSM where people are turning up with an agenda of their own to benefit the few is a massive risk to the commercial success of this game.
Already the community is polarised around this topic and the attitudes shown are frankly unprofessional and disrespectful of the granted position that was given. What makes it worse is the frankly shameful way the CPM are digging their fingernails into the door frame as the community collectively calls for this to end.
CCP your marketing gimmick is backfiring, perhaps its time to act before this becomes the news story......
You know, I've really enjoyed your YouTube channel, and listening to your opinions on gameplay. In fact, I even started playing War Thunder because of your channel. But after reading this thread, I'm starting to realize you either aren't very smart, or are so blinded in your crusade to disband the CPM that you intentionally fail in comprehension.
As pointed out before me, CCP clearly stated that the CPM has not been able to accomplish what it set out to do because of CCP's failings. That doesn't mean that the CPM has failed, but that it stalled and that CCP intends to push through and see it to completion.
Add in the reply by Logibro and the simple truth is that due to the NDA, we don't even have a clue what ludicrous ideas the CPM has stopped through their advocation for the community. Does that make them a failure, or a success?
I'm willing to bet that if people treated the current CPM members with respect and professionalism, that they'd get the same in return. The constant attacks from unfounded opinions is just inciting the same in return. |
|
|
|
CCP Dolan
C C P
C C P Alliance
91
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 01:03:00 -
[131] - Quote
Greetings guys, I just wanted to pop in for two specific reasons. One is to say that I am quite pleased with the progress we have made following my original posting of this statement. I just finished filling out the CPM budget for next year and have made a lot of progress on getting elections into a place where I am happy with them. CCP Logibro and CCP SaberWing have been doing great work helping to get the CPM involved with our upcoming development (much to CCP Logibro's lack of sleep, buy him a beer if you see him). I am sure we will be seeing even more meetings coming out of them in the future.
Now for the less savory part of why I am here. So in this thread and in certain external mediums, some well respected members of the community (who actually have my personal contact information and could contact me at any time). Have been sharing some blatant misinformation about how the programs that I run and operate work on a fundamental basis. To help address some of these inaccuracies, I'll list a few bullet points:
- Making claims like "a majority of the community is calling for an end to this" is blatantly false, and I would like to see any sort of stats backing up this claim. I love to see when the majority of the community agree on anything, as it usually results in great changes, but you aren't going to find a consensus to support disbanding the CPM. I suspect that people are falling victim to confusing "the community" for "people who talk to me".
- Making claims that the CSM and CPM are marketing stunts and would be better replaced by a group of the "underprivileged or disabled", is frankly pretty insulting to a myriad of groups including myself, the CSM and CPM, the community members who support the elections, and the disabled. Honestly, if the CSM or CPM was some sort of marketing endeavor, you'd be hearing a lot more about them, but I really don't have the time to show them off to the general public as both the councils and myself are busy doing actual work to improve the games.
- Making claims that the CSM is in some way corrupt and that the CPM will follow suit is also blatantly false, and shows a severe lack of understanding of how the CSM and CPM operate. In the past, members who come in to only serve specific agendas quickly disappear in to the ether of irrelevance while constructive members actually get good things done. Pushing agendas isn't how the Councils work at all. Council members are not junior game designers, they are a sounding board for CCP ideas and provide feedback on our planned upcoming features and ideas. I understand that in the past CCP has made game decisions that have made some people upset, and CSM members have taken the opportunity to troll those upset people, but there is no part of being on the council that prevents you from trolling. If anyone feels that they have evidence of real corruption or information leaks on the CSM or CPM I would appreciate you mailing both myself and Internal Affairs so it can be properly dealt with.
- Making claims like "because things have not progressed as quickly as planned, the CPM project is a failure" is either just poor rhetoric or a lack of understanding of how game development and creative industries in general work. If CCP wrote off everything that did not progress as planned, as a failure then we would never have had a game and would have remained a group of 3 programmers in Iceland.
- Finally, while I have always been open to forming large focus groups to work on particular content (as was done by Hans Jagerblitzen during his CSM time to work on Incursions), I think many people underestimate the vital nature of an NDA to the whole council process. As Logibro detailed earlier, a certain amount of the things that the CSM and CPM hear are simply not fit for public consumption. Additionally, I think many people underestimate the time commitment required of council members. If someone thinks they can rapidly form large groups of knowledgeable players, have them all enter into a legal binding NDA, not have any of the info they receive leak, and do it with a 24 hour turnaround time from the request for info to them handing in their official feedback, then you should probably apply for my job because you are a miracle worker.
Whew, sorry for all that unpleasantness guys, I hope that I didn't spoil the mood. I just think that there are a lot of people out there who don't really understand how this whole thing works, yet still try to speak from some sort of position of authority on the matter, particularly among a group who might be less familiar with the CPM's predecessor. I have a lot of appreciation for the work that these guys do, and I also tend to get a little upset when people try to bend my words to support bad ideas. While I acknowledge that CPM project didn't do as well in it's first 6 months as I would have liked, I am not going to let people try and kick it while it is down.
(P.S.- It's a little late here, so I'll let you guys do my spell checking for me  ) |
|
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3638
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 01:11:00 -
[132] - Quote
CCP Dolan wrote:Greetings guys, I just wanted to pop in for two specific reasons. One is to say that I am quite pleased with the progress we have made following my original posting of this statement. I just finished filling out the CPM budget for next year and have made a lot of progress on getting elections into a place where I am happy with them. CCP Logibro and CCP SaberWing have been doing great work helping to get the CPM involved with our upcoming development (much to CCP Logibro's lack of sleep, buy him a beer if you see him). I am sure we will be seeing even more meetings coming out of them in the future. Now for the less savory part of why I am here. So in this thread and in certain external mediums, some well respected members of the community (who actually have my personal contact information and could contact me at any time). Have been sharing some blatant misinformation about how the programs that I run and operate work on a fundamental basis. To help address some of these inaccuracies, I'll list a few bullet points:
- Making claims like "a majority of the community is calling for an end to this" is blatantly false, and I would like to see any sort of stats backing up this claim. I love to see when the majority of the community agree on anything, as it usually results in great changes, but you aren't going to find a consensus to support disbanding the CPM. I suspect that people are falling victim to confusing "the community" for "people who talk to me".
- Making claims that the CSM and CPM are marketing stunts and would be better replaced by a group of the "underprivileged or disabled", is frankly pretty insulting to a myriad of groups including myself, the CSM and CPM, the community members who support the elections, and the disabled. Honestly, if the CSM or CPM was some sort of marketing endeavor, you'd be hearing a lot more about them, but I really don't have the time to show them off to the general public as both the councils and myself are busy doing actual work to improve the games.
- Making claims that the CSM is in some way corrupt and that the CPM will follow suit is also blatantly false, and shows a severe lack of understanding of how the CSM and CPM operate. In the past, members who come in to only serve specific agendas quickly disappear in to the ether of irrelevance while constructive members actually get good things done. Pushing agendas isn't how the Councils work at all. Council members are not junior game designers, they are a sounding board for CCP ideas and provide feedback on our planned upcoming features and ideas. I understand that in the past CCP has made game decisions that have made some people upset, and CSM members have taken the opportunity to troll those upset people, but there is no part of being on the council that prevents you from trolling. If anyone feels that they have evidence of real corruption or information leaks on the CSM or CPM I would appreciate you mailing both myself and Internal Affairs so it can be properly dealt with.
- Making claims like "because things have not progressed as quickly as planned, the CPM project is a failure" is either just poor rhetoric or a lack of understanding of how game development and creative industries in general work. If CCP wrote off everything that did not progress as planned, as a failure then we would never have had a game and would have remained a group of 3 programmers in Iceland.
- Finally, while I have always been open to forming large focus groups to work on particular content (as was done by Hans Jagerblitzen during his CSM time to work on Incursions), I think many people underestimate the vital nature of an NDA to the whole council process. As Logibro detailed earlier, a certain amount of the things that the CSM and CPM hear are simply not fit for public consumption. Additionally, I think many people underestimate the time commitment required of council members. If someone thinks they can rapidly form large groups of knowledgeable players, have them all enter into a legal binding NDA, not have any of the info they receive leak, and do it with a 24 hour turnaround time from the request for info to them handing in their official feedback, then you should probably apply for my job because you are a miracle worker.
Whew, sorry for all that unpleasantness guys, I hope that I didn't spoil the mood. I just think that there are a lot of people out there who don't really understand how this whole thing works, yet still try to speak from some sort of position of authority on the matter, particularly among a group who might be less familiar with the CPM's predecessor. I have a lot of appreciation for the work that these guys do, and I also tend to get a little upset when people try to bend my words to support bad ideas. While I acknowledge that CPM project didn't do as well in it's first 6 months as I would have liked, I am not going to let people try and kick it while it is down. (P.S.- It's a little late here, so I'll let you guys do my spell checking for me )
Excellent response and very glad you chimed in, Dolan. Unfortunately, there will always be a cynic in the group - but I feel like we, as a community, might have failed to help the others learn about how things really work and why the CPM is a necessity. Perhaps this is something we can work on in the future.
ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
|
jin foxdale
Jedi Slime.
81
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 01:28:00 -
[133] - Quote
Hi guys,
I kind of wandered into this thread by happy accident, and whilst I have absolutely nothing to say that would advance the subject at hand, I would like to say thanks.
I have read the entire thread, and found it educational, illuminating and on occasion, both shocking and humorous. I have a much better understanding of what goes on behind the scenes, and new levels of respect for all concerned.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have a MLT shotgun to squeeze and a MLT light frame dropsuit to pootle about in. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
Public Disorder.
1187
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 03:31:00 -
[134] - Quote
In following the CSMs in EVE from the beginning up to our current CSM 8 i've been struck by one thing: people might get elected by power blocs, and people might have an agenda, but the vast majority of work that has come out of the CSMs has been for the betterment of the game as a whole. Agendas notwithstanding.
The same will be true here with our CPMs. We've all seen the large number of people invested in this game. Soon, when we genuinely connect to EVE, we will see large numbers of peeps genuinely invested in New Eden. People do not find it hard to rise above their personal agendas to contribute to the greater good, and DUST will benefit greatly from these people.
We're fortunate to have the crew we do for CPM0. Dolan has shown us that the work on the charter and the election mechanics are receiving the attention and effort they deserve. Our epically tortuous path through this process is showing signs of straightening out and there's light and open space up ahead.
To give up, to abandon hope, to yield to rank cynicism at this juncture is foolish, wasteful and offers no conceivable benefit.
Staying the course will put DUST where it should be: beside its sister EVE, as one of the two games in existence that have a democratically elected player council embedded as a stakeholder in the development cycle.
Once that is done we can get to work building a virtual universe. For real.
|
Magnus Amadeuss
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
169
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 03:45:00 -
[135] - Quote
I just want to know this;
How is CCP going to prevent alliances from monopolizing the CPM?
As Goonswarn has shown in eve, a voting block is a powerful thing to have. A thing that can easily sweep the non-alliance player (the majority of eve) under the rug.
Also
Why can't CCP just ask questions from time-to-time on the updates page? Just one page that ask a question with a yes/no/maybe selection. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
1874
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 03:50:00 -
[136] - Quote
THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote:"high level knowledgeable players"? PLEASE.
kain speros the only decent player in CPM, as well as being the only active player, probably the only one to play PC battles and probably the only one with a proto suit, oddly enough hes the only one with a decent head around his shoulders and a REAL understanding of this game as well as its players.
But the rest of the CPM is garbage in different ways like inactivity, bias, outright aholes, or just plain dumb. I could give multiple examples of each of these.
I used to say less harsh, but similarly stupid stuff about the CPM. I've had the opportunity to play with one and chat with several others via Skype.
This is BS. |
Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
215
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 04:00:00 -
[137] - Quote
NanoCleric wrote:Starfire Revo wrote:Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:Open question for the CPM / CCP Devs...
Would you be willing to come to Corp / Alliance Private Chat Channels to have town hall meetings with our members?
Let me elaborate:
1) Have one day a week or every other week that a Corp or Alliance can sign up wtih and you join our closed channel or we come to one you set up and we have a brief update on CPM / CCP actions and ellicit feedback and questions from the community writ large. I ran a live Q&A with Hans and Kane a while back. I'd be up for doing another if people are interested. I think things like this are great as they do engage with the community.. however.. this still only caters for the 'vocal' part of the community. What about all those casual gamers who don't have time to read the forums much and miss things like this, what about all the multitudes of people that the CPM members simply would not have the real life time to do face to face sessions like this, what about the new players who have no idea who these CPM members are, what about those who do not have PC's (and there's many many of them), what about the 'majority' of active gamers. Again this is only catering to the minority. Therefore it only addresses issues and ideas of the minority which shapes the game for the minority and not the majority. Sure, some things might be spot on that they do, and the majority might agree.. but at present it seems that people only get a say if they seek out the CPM.. and most people will not do that, it's just human nature and to most people, this is 'just a game'. That however does not mean they should be ignored. This is why i say they do not have the tools to be able to engage with the masses, and therefore cannot have a clear perspective of what the majority want to see. I mentioned in my previous post about interfaces and surveys delivered on the PS3, this could be coded to extract questions from a document which the CPM could even submit and maintain to get as much feedback as they can. There are means and ways for CCP to integrate this, though i still believe it should ideally fall to a CCP Staff member to manage such a task as what appears on the screen CCP are responsible for. The key point is the 'whole' community needs to be engaged by the representative without requiring the users to check forums, websites, go on IRC sessions etc... Humans are naturally lazy, and those who don't succumb to the lazyness don't always have the time to persue things like this. So the representatives should have the responsibility to maximize the engagement with the playerbase so they have a broader perspective of the majority opinions. Honestly.. if you can't represent the whole community, then your only serving yourselves. I mean this sentence in a very general way and would apply it to 'any' representation of any community in any form, and yourselves applys to the individual along with (friends and family politics). So without representing a whole community.. there's little point in it. At the end of the day, noone likes misrepresentation, and without engagement, that's what happens.
I very much agree that communication and engagement on all sides is really the answer to most of this. I should have noted it early, but I actually like the idea of in game polls or quick feedback mechanisms at the loading screen quite a bit. I've seen a very similar system used by the folks that develop Grepolis (developed CCPs neck of the woods by the way) and it's a very well received mechanism in that game's community.
|
Baal Roo
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2730
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 04:49:00 -
[138] - Quote
As soon as the community gets to pick the CPM, this will all matter. Until then, the whole thing is a joke. |
Leither Yiltron
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
772
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 05:50:00 -
[139] - Quote
CCP Dolan wrote:Greetings guys, I just wanted to pop in for two specific reasons. One is to say that I am quite pleased with the progress we have made following my original posting of this statement. I just finished filling out the CPM budget for next year and have made a lot of progress on getting elections into a place where I am happy with them. CCP Logibro and CCP Saberwing have been doing great work helping to get the CPM involved with our upcoming development (much to CCP Logibro's lack of sleep, buy him a beer if you see him). I am sure we will be seeing even more meetings coming out of them in the future.
The other part of this post seemed like something that might have been better posted when you first set up the CPM, but whatever. It doesn't need to be said more than once, so a wonder that it has taken so long to say.
In regards to the quoted part: Fantastic news! I won't believe it until we see an actual end product, however. I'm sure this is one of your guys's highest priorities and I can't wait to see it done. As before my encouragement is toward tangible products as a result of the heartening statements.
PC Coordinator for RISE of LEGION
Have a pony
|
IgniteableAura
Pro Hic Immortalis
303
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 06:07:00 -
[140] - Quote
This thread has given me cancer....thanks dust community.
Y'all need to go wrap urselves in tinfoil....screw the hat.
PHI Recruitment
or PHIsh Tank in game
Twitch
|
|
|
Rasatsu
Much Crying Old Experts
878
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 07:04:00 -
[141] - Quote
Imagine how much better the game would be if it was made open source and we could send in patches. |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3644
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 07:34:00 -
[142] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:I just want to know this;
How is CCP going to prevent alliances from monopolizing the CPM?
As Goonswarn has shown in eve, a voting block is a powerful thing to have. A thing that can easily sweep the non-alliance player (the majority of eve) under the rug.
Also
Why can't CCP just ask questions from time-to-time on the updates page? Just one page that ask a question with a yes/no/maybe selection.
Why shouldn't power blocs be allowed to field their representative? I mean, by definition a representative of a power bloc is, in essence, representing a vast majority, is it not? This was a concern fielded back when Mittani was in the CSM and he brought up a very interesting counter-argument: The only thing that could come from preventing power blocs from being allowed to vote for their representative is sufficiently preventing them from voting for the person they want to be in the council.
There's nothing wrong with power blocs and of course representatives campaigning will have the support of those that are closest to them, the support of those that have heard what their views are and are most closely associated with them. Denying them the ability to vote for that representative for fear of monopolizing is effectively reducing the voice of that entire percentage - are their views not equal as someone else's? Suffice to say, power blocs are where most of the problems are voiced anyway being as a large collective is more effective at noticing the high end problems - one such being the dreaded 'District Locking'. This isn't a problem that Public Matchmaker or Faction Warfare participants will actively notice or be concerned with.
I have made it an adamant point to express my views and opinions with as many as I possibly can and I've heard the voices of many people, even from corporations that we would consider our adversaries. While I'm not actively campaigning for CPM, it's no secret that I have expressed my intent to one day run for election, when such is available. The majority of these voices, however, come from the Power Blocs in PC - solely because they are, in my opinion, the best source of information for the high end gaming that Dust 514 offers and I'm sure that many with CPM/CSM experience would agree that nullifying the voice of the PC participants is effectively killing off a large portion of the player-base.
Fact is, CCP are like bloodhounds when they're looking for hidden agendas and ulterior motives. Monopolizing isn't something that you really need to worry about when the ideas being proposed are bat-**** and as the developers have come to realize through -many- years of experience, a silver tongue can do nothing more than hide that agenda, but it can still be found. The job of the CPM isn't to try and weasel in your personal motives and it's easy to recognize when you are. Those that will try, if ever elected, will find a quick path to being stonewalled.
ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
|
crazy space 1
Vherokior Combat Logistics
Minmatar Republic
1965
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 07:44:00 -
[143] - Quote
Spademan wrote:Any chance of giving the CPM a bit more leaniency on the NDAs?
THIS
CCP you need to do what you said you would and be transparent. It's ok if features need to get cut and we as the playerbase shouldn't get 1st peek. But why won't you show us work done on the commander mode? We know it was once only 3 weeks from being finished. What happened to that? Just tell us allready!
I mean it's cool if you never touch it again but please show us what you worked on. See what we want you to work on.
Can't they lift the NDA after a few months or something? |
crazy space 1
Vherokior Combat Logistics
Minmatar Republic
1965
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 07:52:00 -
[144] - Quote
deleted... |
Kevall Longstride
DUST University
Ivy League
627
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 09:06:00 -
[145] - Quote
Thank you for posting Dolan and clarifying a few things. o7
I hope that it brings some clearer understanding of the truth of the situation to those reading this thread.
Mercenary Clone of Dennie Fleetfoot
CEO of DUST University
|
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
3586
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 09:31:00 -
[146] - Quote
CCP Dolan wrote:(P.S.- It's a little late here, so I'll let you guys do my spell checking for me )
Ok, I noticed a grammar mistake.
CCP Dolan wrote:
I suspect that people are falling victim to confusing "the community" for "people who talk to me".
When ending a sentence with a quote, the proper grammar is to have the period within the quotations. The following is the correct grammatical approach.
CCP Dolan (Revised) wrote:
I suspect that people are falling victim to confusing "the community" for "people who talk to me."
The same is done if there is a quotation right before a comma. 
Oh, and +1. Good read.
Amarr faithful, join PIE Inc, the oldest EVE/Dust Amarr loyal corporation!
Amarr Victor!
|
CEOPyrex CloneA
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
343
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 09:42:00 -
[147] - Quote
Interesting reply Dolan, shame you missed the point on quite a few of the concerns raised. (it whiffed of 'reaction' and not absorption')
Alot of people are not happy with the CPM and the CSM (im amazed you deny this), given this is your actual job right, i can see why your keen to 'save' it but just go look at the forums, comments made on the video i released, hell go ask randoms what they think and you will find significant apathy and mostly disregard and suspicion to the entire CSM and CPM concept.
But lets just brush all that under the carpet and continue to allow major groups to suck up to CCP lets watch players who wish to be CPM white knight for the concept (many posting right here) and bring a big old stack of agendas to the CPM so the game development benefits the few and this problem grows as people become more disgruntled with this farce. |
dustwaffle
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
624
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 09:51:00 -
[148] - Quote
CEOPyrex CloneA wrote:Interesting reply Dolan, shame you missed the point on quite a few of the concerns raised. (it whiffed of 'reaction' and not absorption')
Alot of people are not happy with the CPM and the CSM (im amazed you deny this), given this is your actual job right, i can see why your keen to 'save' it but just go look at the forums, comments made on the video i released, hell go ask randoms what they think and you will find significant apathy and mostly disregard and suspicion to the entire CSM and CPM concept.
But lets just brush all that under the carpet and continue to allow major groups to suck up to CCP lets watch players who wish to be CPM white knight for the concept (many posting right here) and bring a big old stack of agendas to the CPM so the game development benefits the few and this problem grows as people become more disgruntled with this farce.
Define 'a lot'. Like Dolan said, numbers matter. Not claims on the internet about 'majority' 'a lot' 'most of us' etc.
Sure, dismiss everyone that doesn't agree with your view as 'white knighting' or 'sucking up'.
Literally r3tarded |
NanoCleric
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
80
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 09:52:00 -
[149] - Quote
Ivar Iosef wrote:
The CPM have been working hard at reaching out to the community. I hear complaints of "vocal minority" but the truth is that if you sit in the corner and nurse your grudges to your chest, of course know one will hear you. Stand up, speak out. If you want a say in something, message a CPM to talk about it.
Every game has a forum nowadays. To say "but not everyone is on the forums! It can't work!" is foolish. If you want to make your opinion known you can put in a little effort to be heard.
I don't see eye to eye with every CPM, but I respect the work they have and will continue to do. They have helped CCP take an infant, stumbling game and helped it to begin crawling, if not walking yet. There is a long road ahead with the creation of the CPM White Paper, but hopefully CCP Shanghai will ignore the naysayers and fools like CCP Reykjavik once did with the CSM.
I can understand what your saying, however it's not practical to expect people to come forward and express their opinions to gather a consensus on what a community wants. How many want to spend their free time clamouring over forums and being outspoken by others. The simple truth is many valuable opinions and insights hide away in those who don't come out to express them. However, if they are engaged, some real diamonds in the rough can be found.
So the fact remains, that unless a platform is provided to engage with the masses to give them a simple quick means to provide their opinions, then they will just remain hidden.
I can see you think everyone should be shouting their opinions out and believe everyone has access to forums etc.. but i can tell you for a fact that we've tried to get all our community members onto forums and we have close to 2k members in an alliance and only could get between 200-300 of them to actually go on the forums. That is a tiny minority in that community alone. I engaged with many players in the chat in game to find out why people aren't joining the forums and i was indeed suprised to find out just how many players do not own PC's, and only have their PS3. So we also tried to find other ways for them to access forums through phones, ps3 brower, etc... The truth is it's impractical.
So i'm sorry to say but it's not foolish to say not everyone is on the forums, and i'm also sorry to have to say it's actually quite naieve to say otherwise, and i don't intend that as an attack, but you need to realise the facts behind the situation, these may be facts you were previously unaware of.
All of you.. i'm sure you've all been egaged on the high streets in towns by surveys, or cold called with people wanting surveys.. none of us like to spend time doing them, and we all ignore those that are pushed to us. So sure, if we gave the community an 'in-game' means of feedback, i'm sure lots of people may just select the quickest option to bypass it. However.. if it's in-game, relevant and requires a response (not forgetting the option to abstain).. then we get mass feedback from the players. As i previously mentioned, CCP would need to be accountable for it's content so i'd advise it's run by a CCP Staff member as opposed to CPM, but if CCP were to code it in, and CPM delivered a document with the content then fair enough... but as it stands at the moment, i still can't trust a CPM who does not engage with the larger community to 'draw out' these opinions, as it becomes the voice of the minority.
It is not the responsibility of the players to speak out, players just want to play a game and do have opinions, they have to be engaged to get those opinions, therefore it falls on CCP and CPM to get those opinions, and the only way to do that is to provide the 'tools' to make that as easy and quick as possible.
I know i write a lot, any many skip the points i make because of that but unfortunately i find it difficult to be brief as i always feel i need to justify what i say. I write in the hope that the points i make can help push things forward..
though i have to reiterate.. until the CPM have the tools they need and do engage with others more than they do now (That's not to say work harder, just you need the tools to make it easier) .. then i simply don't believe the CPM truely 'can' represent the community's true feelings and thoughts. .. So i do still think that it should be a staff member, and to be rid of the CPM.. though i do thank them for the time they've put in thus far.
ok, written enough.. though still want to say more.. you may cringe now. :)
|
dustwaffle
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
624
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 09:59:00 -
[150] - Quote
AFAIK, it's not the responsibility of the CPM to come and hold your hand and 'reach out' to you. Not everyone has access to the forums? Why not? What's stopping someone from getting on a laptop/PC/smartphone/PS3 browser to come on and express their views? What's to stop them from doing it in a reasonable manner to lend more strengths to their arguments?
Nothing.
No one is responsible for such apathy but the players themselves. |
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |